2D vs CGI

>>93447412
There's a place for everything and everyone has their own personal taste.
GGEZ

Well yeah but most of the time 3D animation doesn't look as smooth as that examples you give. Often times it's pretty stilted and is basically just puppets.

>>93447412

Why does everything look like taxidermy?

Did Tintin movie flop? I liked it.

>>93447412
If the value of the technique is in the individual complexity of each final image, sure. You definitely aren't missing any kind of point there, champ

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>>93447412

>>93447488
It made its budget twice over as well as receive good acclaim from critics and fans alike. It did alright.

Budget
$135 million
Box office
$374 million

>>93447412

Pretty much what >>93447455 says, but for the fact that CGI's fat Jew nose is everywhere and 2D is an endangered species.

So fuck CGI

>>93447573
Those 72 hours before people forgot about it were truly memorable

2D looks better, but it has more of a stigma as being "for kids". It also costs less but takes longer to make. These companies care more about assembly line-ing these things out than they do about them having long-lasting appeal for decades to come.

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>>93447589
Don't blame CGI for 2D's failings. Blame people not watching any 2D films to begin with.

>The Red Turtle showcased last year
>No one even talks about it

>>93447573
Well, i hope there's going to be sequel someday. This world needs more comic book movies.

>>93447412
is just cheaper anon

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>>93447621
>2D looks better
Action sequences looks better in CGI

https://youtu.be/M_XwzBMTJaM?list=LL7KSZna6vofauY1bsm6X3bQ

>>93447728
> No one even talks about it

I OPed a thread once about it with a pic of the turtle and "*blocks your path*" as the title and the mods banned me for a week. So somebody else do that, thank you

>>93447912
The mods here are SJW lunatics.

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>>93447412
For fuck sake ,why?

>>93447995
Works on my machine

>>93447750
Jackson said he'd get back to a sequel after he finished The Hobbit. So its either currently in production or the Hobbit Trilogy sapped his desire to ever make movies again.

>>93447573
Yeah, but according to Box Office Mojo, 77.6 million was from the domestic audience. Given the standard rules for calculating box office profit margins, that means that about half of that went to the studio. Overseas profits are an even smaller fraction of revenue. And then there are the advertising costs to consider. Even if it did make a profit in the end, it wasn't that much compared to what studios might like. A sequel might not get a higher budget if not an outright lower one to hedge the producers' bets.

It's kind of a shame too given that I really would have liked to have seen other stories in the series get adapted.

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is this the only instance where a drunktard was portrayed in positive light?

his burp saved their lives!

>>93447879

That's only because not too many people have attempted good action sequences in 2D. I'll gladly take an awesome 2D action sequence over a similar sequence in 3D. If anybody ever actually bothers.

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>Red Herring villain of the comics
>actual villain of the film
FUCK YOU, SPIELBERG!

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>>93447412
"Sculpture has surpassed painting. prove me wrong". You're comparing apples to oranges

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why do people always compare 2d and 3d animation when 3d animation is obviously more linked to stop motion animation?

>>93448758
One Old Master actually held this opinion didn't he? Can't remember which.

>>93448827
This.

>>93448641
That was such bullshit. He could have just poured the bottle in the plane.

>>93448889
he drank it!

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>>93447412
The problem 2-D animators have is that they lack the proper ability to animate an enviroment like a 3D animated film does.

Think about it, 3D animated films are blocked in an artificial enviroment (a set) with in-engine "cameras" that can be placed in locations as if they were actualy there, and they can roughly simulate real textures.

The way 3D animated films are done and blocked should be how 2D artist think...3Dimensionally. I mean, looks at pic related. This is an acceptable example of western animation. This whole, overly-revealing shot. For some reason, we always use the angles as if trying to show as much of the characters as possible, or their boddies at least. This shot would NOT be acceptable in 3D film fr more than two seconds.

It all comes down to not knowing how cinematography works in 2D cartoons because most people lack the ability to imagine them being in 3D.

Hell, even Disney's early films have this flaw. Notice how they always try to show as much of Snow White as possible, leading to angles that, if translated into 3D, would feel less cinematic.

The problem isn't that 3-D is surpassing 2-D, but rather than our lower standards of 2-D hinders it's progress to feel as impactful and cinematic as 3-D films.

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>>93448748
> Screenplay by: Steven Moffat

That asshole follows the modern trend of basing half his writing in subverting what people expect based on stablished source material.

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>>93448827
Because Stop-Motion was never mainstream. 3D has effectively replaced 2D as the most common technique used, specially in high-profile productions

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>>93448675
>not too many people have attempted good action sequences in 2D
Are you fucking kidding me? There are plenty of amazing 2D action sequences in anime, cartoons and movies. The CGI is the one that lacks of good action. We need more CGI action. It looks amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEKYxkNJEYg

>>93449667

That would look even more amazing in 2D.

>>93449682
Of course not

>>93449695
Of course it would. 2D inherently looks more impressive in 3D. It's just a hell of a lot more expensive and requires a lot more skill/effort.

>>93449736
>2D inherently looks more impressive in 3D
Well yeah, 3D looks more impressive. That is my point

>>93449769
Not at all. Everything in 3D would look superior in 2D if anybody took the time and care to do it. Of course it would. People use 3D because it's easier.

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>>93449808
You have brain damage

>>93449981
Nah, but I'm assuming the only reason you hold that opinion is that you probably work in 3D animation and are trying to justify your profession despite your lack of drawing ability.

Sorry, your "art" sucks and nobody will ever give you any individual credit for your work. But at least you got paid.

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>>93449233
A lot of anime movies have pulled off trick camera shots and movements very well. Disney attempted to but kept falling back on the use of CG to help back with Mouse Detective to eventually just going all CG entirely.

I don't know why 2D American movies didn't utilize camera movements more other than time. I mean, the Little Mermaid ship wreck scene took a year to animate.

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>>93449233
This. Also, wanting for the next Godzilla movie. The Kong movie was fucking CGI kino https://youtu.be/cmZXJsklxSA?list=LL7KSZna6vofauY1bsm6X3bQ

>>93447412
On another note, it's really nice to see Warner Bros. revive Looney Tunes with pretty good and smooth animation

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>>93450187
That's pretty great (except for the sniper wearing a Dracula cape), but it's not quite the same thing.

The background tracking trick is pretty standard stuff, but it works better when used for far away environments (such as in this case), which don't shift the view of individual elements that much anyway. Enclosing, close-quarters environments (such as in Mouse Detective or Little Mermaid) couldn't be made with a single plate, and the draftmanship required to pull them off frame by frame without real or generated footage surpases pretty much any level of skill that has ever been achieved.

>>93447412
The Tintin movie may have not lived to everyone's expectations, but GOD FUCKING DAMN if the CGI displayed isn't some of the absolute best ever seen in animation

>>93450505
studio?

>>93449369
Moffat thrives off of making his writing seem smart for people that never read the source material. That's how Sherlock got so popular.

>>93447412
fucking unnecessary, 2D is far better that this overcomplex shit. do the same shit with the classic 2D and it would be better, we don´t need fucing carse in 3/4 shoot, nor a fuckton of shades. For me it`s fucking shit.

>>93451024
Weta, I think

>>93448641
the way the comics portrayed him was very nuanced
when Tintin meets him, he's a wreck because of overindulgence. But deep down he's still a good person with a serious problem that was being exploited by the people closest to him (Alan was actively feeding his addiction to keep him as a puppet).
When, encouraged by Tintin who at first has no reason to hide the ugly truth from him and later on becomes a genuine friend, he starts treating alcohol with more moderation that deep down good person comes out and he slowly starts to get his life back on its rails.

>>93451408
I did like that you see a bit of that coming out at the end of the movie - with Haddock sobering up (a bit) and starting to replace his thirst for alcohol with a thirst for adventure.

>>93447621
They may cost less for the first movie, but cgi give reusable assets. So it's a larger initial investment that pays off later. That's a key drawing factor for the modern studio looking to make franchises.

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>>93451505
>>93451408

>that fucking sequel hook

Arghhh, it was so good!

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>>93451714

i despise Illumination. they brought girls back, they didn't change them at all, and reused old jokes in the fucking trailer.

>>93451722
>How's your thirst for adventure, Captain?
>... Unquenchable.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't get goosebumps during that whole scene. REALLY hope they do the sequel at some point.

>>93451262
And he frequently lets fan praise go to his head and overindulges in what people like. I haven't watched a single episode of the latest Dr Who because it seems theyre all part of one big 'deep' story arc when I just want a fun episodic anthology show.

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>>93451886
Believe me - you're not missing anything. Bill is probably the worst companion in decades and the writing this season has been fucking dreadful.

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>>93447412
>not posting the best cgi short
https://youtu.be/Ala8dGr1soU

>>93447750
It's getting one. They're doing Prisoners of the Sun.

>>93451918
WE

>>93452054
WAZ

>>93451403

>Gotg
>Valerian

neat.

Why do 2Dfags hate 3D so much?

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>>93452632

>hate

nah, we just miss full 2d features

>>93452946
THEN WHY DIDN'T ANY OF YOU FUCKS SEE THE RED TURTLE? OR THE GIRL WITHOUT HANDS? OR THE PROPHET? OR ANY OF THE OTHER EUROPEAN TRADITIONALLY ANIMATED MOVIES! IF YOU WANTED IT SO MUCH YOU'D ACTUALLY LOOK FOR THEM YOU SHITHEADS.

>>93447412
What is the point of your image, OP? If the "endgame" of CGI animation is photorealism then why animate media at all? Will CGI animation make itself obsolete? NO, because people will always want animation. There are sequences in The Thief & The Cobbler that still surpass anything CGI animation can offer, likewise Spirited Away and Princess Kaguya.

>>93453346
Because they're manchildren that just want Disney waifus.

>>93454153
>What is the point of your image, OP?
First result on Google

>If the "endgame" of CGI animation is photorealism
The endgame of the CGI is being good at everything.

>>93453346
Man, I'm still salty that I only had one opportunity to see the one showing of The Prophet anywhere remotely near my area, and I couldn't get off from work.

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2d and 3d are forma of art.
what really makes the difference is the artist behind it .
At least on 2d ,
because on 3d what matter are the 20 programmers and scientists .

>>93447537
That movie was the absolute antithesis of the Uncanny Valley. The characters looked great, I never felt uncomfortable looking at them in the slightest.

>>93447995
First world countries only

>>93447912
Then do it genuinely and not annoyingly

>>93447412
I don't think you understand how mediums work. It's like saying photography has surpassed oil painting. You can't just claim one kind of art is better than the other on grounds of versatility or ease of use. That's has nothing to do with the quality of the art itself or what the appeal of the medium is.

>>93451828
Read somewhere Spielberg is a genuine fan of the comics so there's a possibility for a sequel
and course a good number of the Tintin comics lend themselves for a movie adaptation fairly easily, especially the dual issues.

>>93447879
You can't make a CGI movie that has the same quality as a blizzard trailer

>>93447412
Why not live action the movie at that point?

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>>93455713
Yes, you can. The current movies are as complex as those trailers. The difference is the arstyle

>>93455796
The difference is runtime

>>93455493
There's something really unquantifiable about 2d animation...a warmth, or something? I don't know.
CGI can enhance live-action really well when it's used well but on it's own, like the Tintin film...too uncanny valley

>>93451974
That animation is fine, but that rendering is awful. It looks like it's trying to be painted, but instead it's over textured and has elements of pillow shading to it.

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>>93455865
>something really unquantifiable about 2d animation
How obvious the human hand was in the construction of it.

>>93453346
Because those have limited releases and unless you live in a major city, will most likely have to wait for a streaming service to see it.

As for why people didn't watch it yet online, that's something to complain about. Netflix tried its goddamn hardest to promote The Little Prince and people still didn't care.

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>>93455865
>but on it's own, like the Tintin film...too uncanny valley
Depends on the artstyle

>>93455928
Well, that is one thing, but not even that...really can't describe it.
>>93455967
Obviously, that's why I specifically said the Tintin film. The texture on the lining of the cape in your image is done well...

The Tintin movie had some of the greatest setpieces I've ever seen. The crane fight was incredible and the duel between Rackham and Haddock's ancestor was one of the best sword fights ever put to film.

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>>93447412
Creepy Tarkin says you're wrong.

>>93456009
At this point at least it was different. Unlike standardPixar00003821

The terms animator and artist have never been so far apart from one another thanks to that industrial pipe.

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Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd0qKUwZMw

I only ever saw passing ads for TinTin, and I'm still amazed it's not the live action film I thought it was at the time.

>>93447412
Holy shit June Foray is still alive. Is she one of the last animation Golden Age people left?
>Peter Pan
>Squaw
>She also served as the model for one of the mermaids
She was apparently a fox in her younger days as well.

>>93456205
Etotama was pretty to look at but had no meat to it.
Wouldn't go as far as to say it was all style and no substance but damn it got close.

>>93456205
>weeaboo shit
trash

>>93447412

Easy - 2D is actually easier to accomplish a lot of CGI has to work hard to get write (e.g. water, hair, etc.)

At some point, in some nebulous future, it MIGHT be possible that CGI will be able to replicate the best of 2D, but we're not there yet, son.

>>93447412
>5 1/2 years later
>still no progress on the Tintin sequel
For fucks sake.

>>93456723
What is the best of 2D?

>>93449808
>_____ would look better in _____ if anybody took the time and care to do it.

>>93449808
>Everything in 3D would look superior in 2D

Like?

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>>93458766

>>93458945
Nah

>>93448827
Because Stop motion have the very uncanny valley reputation while 2D not. 3D animators tend to get triggered when i critize their work as stop motion or puppet animation.

>>93447412
Tin Tin sequel when
That movie was fucking great

>>93447412
I do appreciate it when 3D is done stylized, rather than some generic look like how most disney and pixar films look these days.

With that said there's a bit of polish that needs to be done to truly capture the charm of 2D, I want to like this as it feels like a nicely shaded version of the original cartoon, but certain effects of how things squash and stretch don't feel quite right, but very close.

>>93456110

Pixar movies doesn't even look good anymore, the humans in their latest movies look all alike.What happened?

>>93447879
Why is Blizzard so good?

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>>93447412
I can easily disprove this. See this pic? This is from the Land Before Time 14. See how it looks? Compare that to a straight to DVD 3D movie and tell me it looks anywhere near as good. There are some things 2D just does better, and one of those is not looking like shit if the budget is limited.

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>>93462723
>"2D doesn't look like shit if the budget is limited"
>all modern cartoons look like shit

>>93449667
Why don't they ever drive to the side?

see berserk 2016+2017 for shit cgi

>>93463573
And?

3D animation will get to a point where it can do everything 2D animation can + anything reality can sometime in the future

>>93462723
>What is art direction

>>93463516
Plot

>>93449736
>Coding in assembly takes more effort than coding in python so assembly coding is better

>>93463516

bike wasnt really maneuvrable, and there was junk all over the street.

>>93454153
>are sequences in The Thief & The Cobbler that still surpass anything CGI animation can offer, likewise Spirited Away and Princess Kaguya.
This isn't true at all

>>93455602
I dunno, I think the part of the reason they were toys was because Pixar was afraid of making human characters at the time, because of uncanny valley.

>>93447995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIyFNDfsdiU
I live in Serbia and it works on my laptop. WTF?

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>>93449369
Is this the director who fucks up doctor who?
>>93448748
>that name

>>93448758
Painting is easier than sculpture, because you just see from one angle. While you sculpt, you have to see from 40 or more angles.

>>93448758
Retarded comparison because CG is a toolset not a completely different medium

>>93449233
The thing is that you look at low budget shows from the 1970s in Japan and they were pulling off very interesting stuff shot wise and perspective wise. It was janky, off-model and limited as well, except for those few moments when you saw something that was actually seriously pushing what they could do at the time (usually for a second or two at most). A lot of the stuff you saw on an episode of Mazinger Z, for example.

>>93447412

3D CGI cartoons are so different from each other than no one can be superior to other since they do extremely different things, what we need is software that can produce 2D looking CGI so we wont need people who know how to draw to do good looking 2D.

>>93447589

2D means Anime...

>>93447412
2D had more charm and imagination than 3d storytelling. The old Disney hand-drawn animation is far more compelling to watch than, say, Frozen or anything.

>>93447412
I'm a studen in Animation/Illustration, I've built both 3d and 2d animations, and I can say this: 2d animation, while taking longer, is much more an art form than 3d. Theres so much more you can do with 2d, especially in regards to character emotion. 3d, while being far easier and less time consuming to produce, misses out on the magic and charm that 2d brings to the table. Hand drawn animation, when made by someone who exhibits that passion for his/her trade, will always outpace 3d animation.

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>>93469740
>2D had more charm and imagination than 3d storytelling
>this is what 2Dfags actually believe

>>93468220
Exactly what I mean. I didn't want to say it so flat out, because the topic isn't really about "East is better than West", but the truth is...they are.

I mean, say what you will about anime -- personally, I believe must of it runs off of cliches, and I don't like that. HOWEVER...Japan has always consistently experimented with animation. The artists make everything function like it should in a 3D world, they block scenes like you would in a 3D world, and they overall understand that in order to make a 2D property to look cinematic, you have to understand how things work in 3D cinematography.

>>93469740
Frozen is better than quite a few 2D Disney Canon movies

>>93471052
Not in terms of animation.

>>93447412
and you can tell me claymation is also obsolete but you would be wrong

Art forms are aesthetic choices not simply inferior or superior mediums

>>93447412
Until 3-D can show even a fraction of the fluidity, inventiveness, or sheer imagination of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhheiPTdZCw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HR4Junqmzg
then it has in no way surpassed 2-D. My problem with 3-D is that despite being the biggest form of animation nowadays, there is very little deviation in what is essentially the Dreamworks/Pixar look. Not to mention the only thing limiting traditional animation is time and skill while 3-D is limited by technology.

>>93450187
>I don't know why 2D American movies didn't utilize camera movements more other than time. I mean, the Little Mermaid ship wreck scene took a year to animate.
That sounds kinda self-explanatory.

>>93447912
the mods are here are worthless cunts

what did you expect?

I'm liking what Disney is putting out with their Princess-shows and Tsum Tsum-shorts.

>>93455865
>There's something really unquantifiable about 2d animation...a warmth, or something? I don't know.

The way characters move have more weight to them. And animators do a better job of expressing emotion in 2D as well.

>>93472825
>The way characters move have more weight to them.
3D characters have way more weight

>animators do a better job of expressing emotion in 2D as well.
Do you even watch modern CGI? Characters are expressive as hell

>>93471248
Yes it is

>>93455959
I tried watching the Little Prince but I didn't like the story.

>>93459035
It wouldn't have aged like milk if it was 2d.

>>93473965
It aged like milk because it was early CGI. And a lot of 2D shows aged like milk too

>>93471052
>Frozen is better than quite a few 2D Disney Canon movies
Are you talking about Home on The Range? Because a poorly taken youtube video about skylights is better than that story.

>>93474028
Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYwpvdcIYII

>>93457946
Faces.

>>93474239
Yes. A lot of old cartoons and animes are unwatchable

I agree, but not on TinTin. I agree on Poet Anderson, The Letterman, The Paperman and the beta version of Tron Uprising. Maybe Tangled and Lion Guard (if they didn't look like cheap Flash)

3D with 2D textures(hand drawn expressions) is the future of animation.
Just like Toonbom Harmony is the future of recycled Flash animation.
There was this one anon who posted a 3D model webm of Sugar Sprinkles from Littlest Pet which was shaded to look exactly like its 2D counterpart.

Poet Anderson almost did a good job at emulating the 2D movement and faces, but some of them still looked too plain/butter faces like all CGI.
Instead Tron Uprising would have been amazing and the true 3D to 2D hybrid combining the best of both worlds. Sadly the idiots had to kill the budget in favor of Star Wars and we got an ugly low framerate version that looks more like Ankama's Wakfu animated in Flash.

But remember when 3D was actually good looking? Before the idiots at Pixar and DreamWorks gave everyone butter faces because it's somehow more appealing to children?

Spirits Within and Final Fantasy for example, absolute eyecandy.
Back then 3D was known to be used only in video games and vidya cinematics.
Back then the low budget 3D cartoons focused on robots, sci fi and anything unrealistic looking because organic looked like shit, it looks like shit even in old 98 game trailers.

I believe 3D and 2D should combine into beautiful artwork and animation. That's what the future should reserve us.

>>93474667

Sadly 2010-2020 has offered us a decade of ugly art styles, stiff flash animation, stiff ugly cgi , mediocre hand drawn choreography.
If it wasn't the decade of dystopia then Canada would be outlawed from animation. And again: the real Tron Uprising wouldn't have been just a sneak peek trailer.

You know this generation took a massive nosedive in culture when France, Japan and Italy can produce better looking and well animated shows.
When they completely lack talent, principles, timing, humour, writing, etc.
Wakfu's animation is lazy, weightless/no timing.

Similar, but not as bad as say China's Rainbow Cat and Blue Rabbit, which has an insanely smooth, but overly tweened movement with no direction/logic to it.

I really should tripfag because my tastes and mentality stand out from everyone on this website.

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>>93474667
>But remember when 3D was actually good looking?
Zootopia was good looking

>>93474239
i wonder how many people fapped to betty at the time

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>>93448827
Because people are plebs

Is is true it's "more time consuming" to animate a 3D character's model than a 2d one at the same frame rate?

>>93474790
I liked her better when she was a blonde.

How does one find a group of talented animators and then try to budget your cartoons properly?

Why do cartoon shows never reveal their budget? And animators their real pay?

>>93474911
Animate a 3D character's model is faster. The elaboration of that model is the difficult part. It's complex and time consuming

>>93475076
Because most industries don't do that unless prodded, and there's a taboo among all work forces about revealing your salary.

>>93473763
It's not even that great by Disney CG standards. Some of it is visibly unfinished.

>>93475221
>Some of it is visibly unfinished.
Such as...?

>>93475437
Man, just watch the movie. It looks like shit compared to Tangled or Zootopia

>>93475486
>some of it is visibly unfinished

>such as?

>well... uhhh... just watch the movie it's right there durrrrrr it looks like shit

I'm not saying Frozen is the gold standard of CGI animation but don't make a ridiculous claim if you can't actually back it up

>>93475437
That one scene where Hans is laying on the floor readjusting his jaw for seemingly no reason because they last minute decided to cut a scene where Kristoff punches him and didn't bother to redo what they already had to fit better is one of the pretty telling examples that it was rushed out to release before they finished polishing off all the details. Of course if it had stayed in production any longer, they would have just kept making script revisions and changes and never would have come to consensus on a finished product, as they'd been doing the entire time they had worked on it.

>>93475148
>and there's a taboo among all work forces about revealing your salary.
Man I hate this shit so much.

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>>93469740
>2D had more charm and imagination than 3d storytelling

3D is the future.

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>>93447412
I did really like the stylized reality of the Tintin movie and thought it was a great adventure movie. Still hoping we will get a sequel.

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>>93476614

>>93474667
>>93474730
I kind of disagree on Tron Uprising. The pilot had a higher production value but I actually prefer the stylization in the end product. A lot of people call it "ugly" but I thought it really made the show stand out compared to other 3-D animated shows.

>>93460298
I know right?

>>93472156
Pre-digital television anime used all kinds of three-dimensional shots, and they certainly didn't have a year to animate those.

>>93474667
>I believe 3D and 2D should combine into beautiful artwork and animation. That's what the future should reserve us.
That's already the reality in Japan. It's just that the 3D animation is subservient to the 2D animation, not the other way around.

A lot of people think 3D animation is inevitable, and possibly also better, cheaper and faster, just because it's newer and more technological. Even the anime industry going full 3D is seen as inevitable, because technology. I don't know if the American animation industry's adoption of 3D animation was influenced by these thoughts, but if it was then it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

>>93477150
>That's already the reality in Japan
And it looks like shit

>>93477597
There's no need to be jealous.

>>93476614
Apparently the sequel is still in the works, just won't enter production until after some upcoming(or released now?) Jackson film

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Tintin_(film)#Sequels

>Spielberg later announced that Jackson was still attached to directing the sequel, and that it would enter work once Jackson completed another Amblin Partners/DreamWorks production.

>>93477673
>defending trash like Sidonia

>>93477700
Sidonia is fully 3D animated, which isn't what I was talking about.

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>>93477860
Sidonia is cel-shaded animation and you are talking about cel shading so...

>>93478069
I wasn't talking about cel shading, I was talking about combining hand-drawn and 3D animation, e.g. a hand-drawn character against 3D rendered backgrounds.

>>93448758
Apples are better tho

>>93478152
You just want 2D no CGI.

>>93478286
No. 3D animation can be misused, but it also has many benefits and enables things that weren't possible in the past.

>>93478251
Fuck you oranges are way better.

>>93474790

created by some soulless rendering "Farms".

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>>93478316

Nigga then you want Archer and that shit ain't jap.
But to be fair it ain't handrawn either

>>93479271
I'm talking about things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M06rtVIL5KI#t=0m36s

>>93447412
I haven't experience uncanny valley in my 30+ years. Does a life of videogames, animation, and drawing have something to do with it?

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>>93447412
3D + 2D elements is the true GOAT

>>93479393
>Re Creators

I know you're using it as an example but fucken hell.

>>93474947

She was never a blonde, anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHURiOqMVTI

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>>93469805
>2d animation is much more an art form than 3d
>3d, while being far easier and less time consuming to produce, misses out on the magic and charm that 2d brings to the table
You are a fucking ignorant. First off, CGI is way harder and complex than hand-drawn animation. Second, CGI has its own magic and charm. Shows like Beast Wars and Jimmy Neutron would lost are their charm without the CGI.

>>93479152
> he can't even eat the peel

lmao Apple and each one of its subproducts are better than anything orange-related

>>93480029
3D animation can be subdivided into many more discreet and independent tasks than hand-drawn animation that can be worked on separately and incrementally. There's at least the model, the rigging, the texturing, the animation, the lighting and the camera. The animation can also be motion captured. In hand-drawn animation this is basically all up to one guy, with a pen and paper, drawing one frame at a time, and without the conviniences of 3D animation. In 3D animation you don't even have to worry about the perspective for example, that's all automatic.

Quality 3D animation is easily found in America--and not just in the animation industry--but hand-drawn animation is of low quality and has been a weak point for decades, and this is despite the fact that America was an early innovator and standard-setter in animation and has produced lots of it for both movies and television.

There's nothing easy about this:
https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/35108
https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/35506

>>93450187
so what anime is this?

>>93480311
>in hand-drawn animation this is basically all up to one guy
>all up to one guy
>one guy

I know the studios treat their animators like trash back there but I'm PRETTY sure it isn't JUST one guy drawing the entirety of the series himself.

>>93480376
I don't mean an entire series. A scene for example.

>>93475656
Some of the crowd scenes look like shit. the background characters are pretty soulless mannequins

>>93480311
>this is basically all up to one guy, with a pen and paper
Several guys

>In 3D animation you don't even have to worry about the perspective for example
Maybe but in 3D animation you have to worry about the physics of models and the world. 2D animation don't that inconvenient.

>There's nothing easy about this:
No one is saying that but it's not harder than 3D animation

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Really makes you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NU9ikjqjC0

>>93481389
I said "basically." The key animator draws the layout for the cut, draws/animates everything in the scene that isn't part of the background, including the lighting and shading. An in-betweener fills in the blanks and then the coloring department adds color. The bulk of the work is done by one animator.

>Maybe but in 3D animation you have to worry about the physics of models and the world. 2D animation don't that inconvenient.
2D animation has to take into account physics too.

>No one is saying that but it's not harder than 3D animation
It's much harder.

>>93481462
>2D animation has to take into account physics too.
In a very basic way. In high-end 3D animation the whole world is alive.

>It's much harder
It's not

>>93481462

Pretty sure you can break physics easier (and exaggerate and take more shortcuts) in 2D and it wouldn't look that out of place.

ESPECIALLY RIGGING EACH BACKGROUND CHARACTER, NONE OF THAT BLOB SHIT.

>>93481537
No, not in a very basic way.

It is significantly harder for reasons I already explained. You clearly don't know much if anything about hand-drawn animation.

>>93481563
You clearly don't know much if anything about 3D animation

>>93481591
I know enough to know that it's easier than 2D animation, because it is.

For example in 3D animation if you want to put the camera on the floor looking up at the character and then rotate it around the character, that's completely trivial. Everything happens automatically. In 2D animation you have to draw every frame of it one by one and manually take into account the perspective and keep everything consistent. You have to visualize the rotation in your head and then draw it.

>>93456205

great animation, shit story. Still, it's a great example of cel-shading done right.

>>93455796
No you can't make full length movies that look good as blizzard trailers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLzhlsEFcVQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYNCCu0y-Is

>>93458945
In this case it wouldn't, the artists behind jimmy neutron were terrible and didn't knew how to draw, the cgi may have aged bad but if it was 2d it would have been Christmas special bargain bin tier 2d

>>93481462
>>93481563
>2D animation has to take into account physics
>It is significantly harder for reasons
Just look at your own example here >>93480311
>a lot of crazy off-model
>unnatural motion
>static environment
None of these things would work in CGI because they break physics

>>93450275
>wanting for the next Godzilla movie
but it came out last year?

>>93481730
Nowhere did I ever say or imply that all 2D animation follows physics realistically, but even in crazy action scenes there is some kind of realism and physical logical involved, like how hair and clothes and accessories move, how limbs move, how explosions and impacts work, and so on.

3D animation can break physics just as well. Live action breaks physics all the time too.

All the physics in 2D animation have to be drawn with a pen one frame at a time, it's significantly harder to make changes, and you can't test and tweak things. Reference footage is also usually not used.

>>93477150
>I don't know if the American animation industry's adoption of 3D animation was influenced by these thoughts

It was influenced by new 2D movies bombing as spic nigglets would rather watch shrek or ice age

>>93481688

That's because nobody in their right mind would put as much money as Blizzard has in their cinematic TRAILERS.
FFS it isn't even the game.

>>93481717

If it was 2D it would be Dexter's Lab.

>>93481643
>it's easier than 2D animation, because it is.
Found the weeb


>You have to visualize the rotation in your head and then draw it
In CGI you have to visualize and understand the physics of the models and the world and then design software that can handle them.

>>93481863
What I said does not in any conceivable way suggest I'm a weeaboo. You don't have the faintest idea what the word means.

>In CGI you have to visualize and understand the physics of the models and the world and then design software that can handle them.
In 3D you can test, simulate, automate and tweak the physics, while not having to worry about the modeling, texturing, lighting and camera.

>>93481863

They can get pretty fucked though.
There's a reason why it's generally more expensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_MQnH54XaA

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>>93481811
2D animation doesn't follow physics
>like how hair and clothes and accessories move
Hair and clothes and accessories remain static most of the time
>how limbs move
Off-model
>how explosions and impacts work
They are just flashes.

I hope the MLP move will get enough popularity to revive the theatrical 2D animation.

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>>93481688
>not posting the best one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvYXoyxLv64

>>93474790

>tfw you have to create a program to render fur properly
>not just draw some lines and whatnot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaqmn55w4IA

>>93481981
Yes it follows physics. When a character is running for example and their clothes, hair and bag are moving that is physics in action. When characters fall, stumble, crash or jump, that's physics.

>Hair and clothes and accessories remain static most of the time
No they don't.

>Off-model
Depends on the animation, and this doesn't even mean the animation is not following physics.

>They are just flashes.
No they are not.

Just stop already. You have NO idea what you are saying.

>>93455603
good main world's problem

>>93468017
Apples and oranges are both fruit

>>93482084
>When characters fall, stumble, crash or jump, that's physics.
Ok, I'm done. You are retarded. All your post are full of shit

>>93482084

Not that anon but proclaiming 3D is easier than 2D is kinda untrue since you kinda need more than just people who can draw to make a scene visually.

Not saying this in an absolute way but it really leans towards 3D with which has more technicality involved into it.

>>93482178

But none of them are the lemon.

>>93482187
No, you are retarded if you think there is no physics involved in those. What the fuck do you think physics are exactly?

>>93482212
2D animation also requires background artists, digital effects artists, 3D graphics artists, and the photography department to make complete scenes. I was talking about the animation only.

The "just drawing" part is very difficult and cumbersome and not something you can atomize into numerous separate tasks.

>>93447412
Thanks for reminding me of TinTin I actually quite liked the CG movie.

>>93455603
Mexico is finally first world :')

>>93482212

And also, some people do draw in 2D before 3D (as concept art and/or visual aid) to help better understand a character's design since it is easier to just draw it out.

So it's not really all computer.

>>93482274

Yeah but when you say "animation", there's like multiple departments for that in 3D since there's software engineers and what not.

Because they're using a program with limits. (unless you're also animating something in 2D but I don't think you create new programs just to make each stand of fur move smoothly with the model with respect to lighting and perspective)
Limits where it can be pushed further than just cels (if we're going traditional).

>>93474911
Animating is easy, but you have to create a model for the character, which is a fucking pain in the ass

>Move a model's limb by one inch
>The entire body decides to explode into polygons

>>93482360
I know there's multiple departments. That's what I said from the start. The process is atomized into multiple separate tasks that can all be worked on independently.

>>93481981
>2D animation doesn't follow physics

Artfag here who dabbles in animation occasionally.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
All good art has the knowledge of physics applied to it on some level.
You take physics out of art and animation and the result is somewhere in the ballpark of the The Little Panda Fighter.
2D can get away with breaking and bending physics unlike 3D, but it doesn't mean it's not grounded in reality.

>>93482212

I think there's a bit of a misconception about the whole thing, due to the animation you can find on the internet.
3D animation that we see around us, is 1000% more approachable for the average person than 2D.
This is because the groundwork has already been done.
All that's left for people to do, is to essentially apply good lighting and then some very rudimentary knowledge of physics.
You just mess around with the movement of the models and get a good angle with great lighting and there you have it, SFM Pixar tier Overwatch porn loop or a short film.
So in this sense, 3D is far easier than 2D and a lot easier to achieve a passable or even a good result.
With the traditional version, you don't have that world to experiment with. It has to always be build from the ground up and you need to have the knowledge of cinematography and art in your head.
Also there's no fixing a fucked up angle etc..

But if none of the groundwork isn't done with 3D, it's different.
Then you need to build the models from ground up, among with new backgrounds and objects etc..
And in a more professional setting, the software might have to be build from nothing.
So that ups the difficulty curve considerably.

I don't think they're really that easily comparable though.
It's like comparing a motorcycle to a semi-trailer truck. Both land vehicles but totally different.

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>>93482402
>Animating is easy

Depends on how good you want it to be.
The best 3D animations, being standard for Pixar and co., actually includes spleens and other shit like that transferred directly over from 2D and is a million times harder to do correctly in 3D.

At the same time, it does have many advantages elsewhere.

>>93482425

Then they aren't even comparable to begin with, technical-wise since 3D (for it to "work") has more moving parts in it.

>>93482439

I thought since we're talking films and whatnot we're going through the "industry lens" of this and not independents where all the assets are there already.

>>93482499
I wasn't talking about how similar they are, I said 3D animation is easier to do than 2D animation.

>>93482516

And I wasn't just talking about how similar they are too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjHiC0mt4Ts

>>93482574
Then what are you talking about?

>>93482578

Difficulty in the case of more functions as a whole.
Using "difficult" is not really the right word for it anyways.

One is more limited than the other as a medium to use but one can be expanded upon further.

>>93482620
I have no idea what you just said, but the fact remains that 3D animation is easier than 2D animation.

>>93447412
Is it me or video game CGI > purely animated CGI

>>93482633

Okay, you know what, fine.
3D animation is simply much easier than 2D animation.
Happy now?

>>93482649

It's because they are most of the time just snippets, not a feature length film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLNb0Jd4_ws&t

>>93447412
What's the point in taking a character and making him super realistic to the point that he looks like a real human but animate it anyway, it makes no sense if you boil it down.

>>93482767

Because it's a fidelity vs style thing.

>>93482633
>the fact remains that 2D is easier that 3D

>>93447455
fpbp

>>93481277

Frozen had to be reanimated couple of months before the release, because execs found that stupid Let it Go song really catchy and figured it would make them mad dosh.

they were right

I don't know why but I have a hard time using the word beautiful when talking about 3d animation.
I could tell you how I find a background or a character/creature/mechanical design beautiful in a 2d movie but in 3d, all I can think is "it's well done."
Maybe it's because it's drawn and is linked in my mind to paint and comics...

>>93447455
This.
So very this.

Like what you like and let others do the same.

>>93451918
Sourpuss.
This is the best Who has been in ages.
Bill is a briliant companion - she's not a plot device, she's in love with the doctor, she's just a human being who asks questions that the Doctor don't like to hear - it's brilliant.

If you don't like it, give this season a skip? Chipnall will be the main driving force of the show after Moffat bows out.

>>93485687
*NOT in love... jeez, I accidentally a whole word.

>>93484805
Yes. And it's interesting to note that that's something that can be done with CG, but can't even be considered in the same way with 2D. I think Disney and Pixar have been relying on that too much and it's hurt the quality of some of their films- overall lasting quality, I mean, disregarding short term profit. It hurt Frozen, it probably fucked Brave, it killed The Good Dinosaur, and it made Zootopia turn out very different, arguably perhaps for the worse. Compare that to the somewhat similar trouble with Kingdom of the Sun vs Emperor's New Groove. There was a lot of panic and some big changes, but they were forced to have a more solid idea much earlier than the above examples. They weren't still fiddling around with basic story problems and changing animation right up til the release date.

>>93484328
It isn't.

>>93486855
> it made Zootopia turn out very different, arguably perhaps for the worse.

actually it saved Zootopia from being "my life is so hard" progressive lecture.

>>93451886
Pretty much. He also goes way overboard with the arc words and making every companion Rose but slightly different

>>93451918
It's been a step up from Capaldi's first two series (except the last two episodes of s9) but still weaker than any of Davies'.

>>93485687
I'm glad she's finally a companion who doesn't try to mimic Rose in every way (as I already mentioned), but I just find her really dull and generic. The blatant political subtexts don't help.

Her death (?) was very effective though, I didn't think they'd actually follow through with it and it made me care for her a little

>>93486982
Yeah, I know. But on the other side I just can't help but imagine all the applause it might have gotten from adult animation fans because "so dark! so mature! muh animation industry is saved!" like before the release of Sausage Party. I think the creators had a good point in the alterations to Zootopia, but for someone else whose criteria leans more towards "dark = better," it must be a big letdown.

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>>93487080

it wasnt mature, at all. disturbing, yes
dark, maybe.but "mature"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHURiOqMVTI

"hey look these predators are being electorcuted! let's laugh at them!"
"his angry and his body is spasming! hilarious!"

>>93487134
Sausage Party was in no way mature either, but look at all the people who believed it would usher in a new era of adult targeted animation.

There's a tendency in America to think that adult animation has to be violent, bleak or raunchy.

>>93487328

americunts are such edgelords, my god.

>>93487328
>>93487346
The whole world is like that

>>93487487
Europe and Japan aren't. And that about covers the rest of the world animation market.

>>93487511
You're right. In european animation, everything needs to be bleak.

>>93487511

meanwhile, try to show a nipple on american tv.

>>93487346
There's nothing wrong with being an edgelord

>>93450400
Actually the gears in that scene were CGI (rendered and then traced over.

>>93487561
There's movies like The Illusionist, The Triplets of Belleville, Fantastic Planet, Persepolis and Renaissance that as far as I know don't fit the mold I described.

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>>93487627
They might not be particularly violent or raunchy, but those are all pretty damn bleak.

Except maybe Renaissance, I haven't seen or heard of it.

>>93487691
Renaissance has a bleak setting at least.

>>93487691
Google image search tells me Renaissance is probably bleak as fuck.

>>93487691
By bleak I mean the "look at me I'm for adults, animation isn't just for kids anymore!" kind of bleak. The point in any case is to make sure everyone knows you're not one of those children's movies.

>>93473965
JN was meant to have a 50s aesthetic anyway so the dated look fits pretty well

>>93449808
>Everything in 3D would look superior in 2D

The lego movie

>>93447412
it looks weird.

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>>93487721
Okay. But in european animation, nearly all films are bleak in the actual meaning of the word, usually whether it's made for children or not.

>>93487770
Watership Down is British-American, which half proves my point. And I was really thinking of continental Europe. Britain seems to be on the same wavelength as America.

I think what irks me about these movies is how they use animal characters. They feel try-hard.

>>93482055
>Kung fu panda was so popular blizzard put them in WOW
this shit blows my mind

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>>93488441
Pandas are pure sex https://youtu.be/aYHM3cCLtww

>>93482055
>not posting the timeless one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck

>>93489135
she looks more like a raccoom

>>93489188

She looks like if Mei was a furry which I'm pretty sure was Blizz's attempt to appease their Tencent overlords.

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>>93489151
>no posting nostalgia
Wrathbaby https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vlVSJ0AvZe0

Gobelins has accepted 3D as the future, /co/.
Why haven't you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Spa2My0sQJE

>>93489621
>5 mouths for 2 minutes of animation
What the fuck, 3D.

>>93447412
While I do love 3d animation and will acknowledge it beats 2d in several places, it’s literally requires a team effort to be good. Furthermore, it basically negates the need for stylisation among individuals thanks to models. Notice how there are less famous 3d animators than there are 2d animators despite there being far more 3d animators? 3d is more of a team effort

>>93489890
Team efforts are nice.

>>93490184
You're nice.

>>93490229
No, you're nicer.

>>93489890
>Notice how there are less famous 3d animators than there are 2d animators

How many famous animators has their been in the last decade or so? Craig McCracken?

>>93487627
I don't get it why these try hard pseudo intellectual movies with nothing intelligent and artistic in them have to exist because of a fake assumption "animation is for children".

I don't get it. We have Justice League, X-Men, Diabolik, Batman Beyond, Zeta Project, Red Planet, Invasion America, Men in Black, Roswell Conspiracies, Treasure Planet, After Earth, Anastasia, Atlantis. And many historical legends and books for mature people adapted to animation.

Animation has evolved beyond Popeye, Looney Tunes, Mickey Mouse, Tom n Jerry. They used it for more than comedy slapstick and toy advertising. And for more than children tales like Jack and the beanstalk.

Or somehow all of these don't count?

>>93491212
2D animation is more artisanal, but in America individual animators have never stood out much, or their exact role is vague (are they actually animators?). It's mostly just Japan where animators stand out.

>>93447728
>Don't blame CGI for 2D's failings. Blame people not watching any 2D films to begin with.
This. I fucking love hand drawn animation, but I'm studying 3D because there are no fucking jobs in 2D any more. It's just like any other business, if there's no consumer demand for something it simply stops being made.

>>93491820
Popeye and Looney Tunes were not aimed at children.

I love both 2D & CG, desu. Don't know why we need one or the other.