Stormin' Norman Thread

Thematically? Probably. THEMATICALLY, Venom is probably the best Spider-Man villain. Jungian Shadow brought to life, and all that.

But Norman just fucking hates Peter so much, and desires more than anything to make his life a living Hell. It's not the best thematic fit, but the personalities make it amazing.

>>93443057
I'm not gonna argue that, considering all the history between the two. But I'd like to see an AU where Osborn deals more with Stark instead of Parker. Let Ock be the main-villain, or just reinvent someone else to fill the Osborn role. I feel he's been used too much in the Spider-Books.

I mean, shit, am I the only one who wants to see a guy in a high-tech but still cheesy looking Goblin costume tangle with the super-high-tech Iron Man armor?

I don't know, when I think of what I'd like to see as Stark's foe I think of a magical one, magic vs science

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>>93443114
To be fair, in Dark Reign he kind of did become an Iron Man villain. And he's still been bumped up on Stark's list of priorities quite a bit.

But the fact that he slums around beating up Spider-Man relates to one of the cores of Norman's character: he's petty. Like Lex Luthor. He's small-minded and mean-spirited. Again, like Luthor, Norman is brilliant and rich and accomplished, but none of it matters because he'd rather squander everything he has going after a hero who would just as soon have nothing to do with him, purely because his hatred is aroused.

If Norman could kill himself and kill Peter in the process, he would. He doesn't want to win. He just wants Peter to lose.

>>93442978
I understand your point but, other than the dual identities thing they got going, I think Norman works in how he contrasts Peter
>upper class vs everyman
>young vs old
(under 30 is still on that scale)
>family-man/care-giver vs give no fucks care-giver
Other than that >>93443057

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>>93443191
Peter already lost.

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>>93443261
>mfw Warren Ellis went out of his way to remind us this is still canon during his run on Thunderbolts

>>93443176
So Doom. I've been saying that for a while as well.
>>93443191
Dark Reign was one of my favorite Marvel eras, so it might just be because of that.

>Norman's Character

Oh yeah, I'm not dissagreeing with any of that. It's just that because he's strictly a Spider-Man villain, he's become very one-note. He does the same shit every single time. During the T-Bolts era and then Dark Reign, he became a more interesting and multifaceted character. At least IMO.

>>93443197
Yeah, those apply. But I was thinking of this:

>Biological ehancements vs Technological
Norman goes with Serums whereas Stark goes with nanofleets and armors.

>Extreme Capitalist vs Balanced Capitalist
Norman is the guy who doesn't care about what happens to the little man, as long as he gets what he wants, whereas Tony still tries to do some things "better" (eg green cars and energy).

>"Family"-Man vs Bachelor
Norman is the classic family man with a legacy, whereas Tony is still a bachelor playboy.

And for the similarity:

>Self-Made Man vs Self-Mad Man
Norman created OsCorp due to his father being an abusive ass who lost everything. Tony build Stark industries from a small munitions firm into a multinational, driven by his dad's abuse.

Sure, you can find parallels between almost any character, but considering Spider-Man's huge rogue's gallery, and Stark's "just guys with armor" one, I think it'd be fun to exchange enemies for a while.

>>93443270
It will never NOT be canon. Which is incredible, all things considered. It really is true what they say. Death is cheap, but cucking is forever.

>>93443309
Surely someone, somewhere along the line must have given some thought to retconning it. Like, walking up to Alonso's office, knocking on the door, sitting down in front of his desk, coughing awkwardly, and then beginning with, "So, about that time Norman Osborn had passionate sex with Gwen Stacy..."

>>93443283
I think the big problem with Norman as Spidey's villain now is that he still doesn't remember that it's Peter behind there.
It's the linchpin of their rivalry and Norman's most memorable plans have always been about hurting Peter.

But now he doesn't know and it's Peter's initiative to fuck with the Goblin's more generic power grabbing plans.

>>93443472
Yeah, there's that as well. Slott wants to push Ock as THE villain, but he's not letting go of Norman either. Hell, it's not like anybody in current Marvel could use him anyway.

>>93443472
How could he not know that he's Peter? Wasn't he the one ultimately behind the clone saga?

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>>93443283
>Sure, you can find parallels between almost any character, but considering Spider-Man's huge rogue's gallery, and Stark's "just guys with armor" one, I think it'd be fun to exchange enemies for a while.
Agreed so much. Seriously, Stark as some of the most boring villains
Is it the russian guy in power armor? the american guy in power armor, or the chinese guy in magic armor? boooo this

>>93443537
Stark's villains that come at him like regular supervillains are shitty, that's true. Stark's greatest villain has always been himself. It's an expression of how self-destructive he is. He fights his addictions. He fights his own armor when it goes rogue on him. He fights his own tech when someone steals it. Every Iron Man "villain" worth a shit is an offshoot of Stark himself.

>>93443537
I know, right? Two Russian guys in Armor. An old guy who made armors. A couple of joke-tier "Rogues"-like folks. The only good ones are Zeke, maybe Radioactive Man and in one or two stories, the Mandarin. Stark has literally the worst Rogues' gallery in comics.

Cap at least has Zemo, HYDRA, Faustus, etc, etc. Less known, but some of my faves. The Flash has the speedsters and the Rogues. Supes has a hell of a good one. Thor has tons of mythological shit to draw from.

Stark has nothing, and the problem is that all the villains who could work within his books, are spoken for. osborn? Spider-Man. AIM? General villains. MODOK? Joke-Tier. Fin Fang Foom? Ulta Joke Tier. Doom? F4. And the list goes on and on.

>Sure, you can find parallels between almost any character, but considering Spider-Man's huge rogue's gallery, and Stark's "just guys with armor" one, I think it'd be fun to exchange enemies for a while.

Actually that's a good idea in general. Not just specifically here between these characters, but both Marvel and DC need to do this sorta thing more often
Not just in team up issues, but as a way to shake up the status quo with out actually changing their precious status quo since that is clearly the most important thing to the big two comic producers

Admit it. You would like to see Stark fight not just the Green Goblin, but also the Rhino and the Lizard. You want to see Spidey deal with the Crimson Dynamo or the Red Skull. You want to see Captain America deal with Doc Oc and Dr Doom (Even if I think Doom outclasses Cap in every way imaginable except sheer physical strength)

>>93443552
Which does make for interesting stories, yes, but how many times are we gonna retread the same shit? Either put him in a position of power like the 2005 vol did, in order to push things forward and change the status quo, or if you want him to be the Industrialist Super-Hero, give him a couple of good villains.

Hell, the Fraction run was good as it was because of Dark Reign & the fallout from Civil War. It wasn't anything special, but it was better than the current books. Now, they don't know what to do with Tony, and they don't have any villains to fall back on, so he got turned into the "kill X to prop Y" character.

>>93443588
More or less, yeah. How would Stark, the tech guy, fare with somebody like, say, Ulik? Or how would he fare in a company war against OsCorp? How would Spider-Man tackle a low-level HYDRA Invasion or something?

Instead of each character going through the same 10 or so villains, do some exchanges.

What would happen if Norman took on a Doctor Doom like persona and took over Latveria?

>>93443619
Doom would come back and BTFO him. He works best as a white collar criminal. During Dark Reign he was Marvel's Cobra Commander and I LOVED it.

>>93443619
Doom would destroy him, but likely find it to be an amusing challenge
Now if you mean Norman took over a country and made it into his own Latveria, Doom might just be annoyed with him that someone else was basically ripping off his ideas. Or maybe he would just take it as inevitable that someone would take his ideas and run with it. Geniuses are supposed to be trend setters after all, its only natural for the smaller minds to walk in the footsteps of greater minds

>>93443635
is there anyone Doom can't destroy?

>>93443503
Since BND.

It's not like they have to undo the deal to make him know again.

>>93443663
REEEEEEEEEEEEEchards. And his HUMONGOUS DICK!

That aside, full-power Doctor Strange. Stark on a good day with superior tech could get around Doom's magic. Maybe. Doom's really OP TBQH.

>>93443635

Now I kind of want a miniseries about Norman taking on a Doctor Doom like persona and pulling a Liquid Chris against him.

I liked Dark Reign but it always bugged me that Spidey barely seemed to feature in it given how personal he and Norman are.

What was the reason for that?

>>93443628
>During Dark Reign he was Marvel's Cobra Commander and I LOVED it.
I miss that, Normie was ace then.

>>93443057
NorMAN

>>93443730
I know, right? Everything started going to shit after Dark Reign. It was all wrapped up too neatly and SIEGE was awful. Civil War, for all of its flaws, put characters in an interesting place. Then came Dark Reign and did change the whole MU. And that lasted for what, a year?

>>93443742

I liked the tie ins to Siege but that's when I stopped reading and buying Marvel books. I guess we all felt like the quality was dropping, what the hell happened after Siege? It all sounds like a mess now and I don't even recognize the characters they are shoving and demand we like them.

Dark Reign was pretty solid. I'm hoping the next phase after Infinity War kind of goes in that route. I'd personally like to see Stormin Norman become the main villain of the MCU after Thanos is over and done with. A more human threat would be interesting.

>>93443778
After SIEGE, well. Rogrs was running around as Commander (maybe he was Director of SHIELD, I'm not sure), Tony was rebuilding Asgard and... I don't remember much. Nothing bad or awful. A typical time.

>>93443191
>this fucking page

We're never going to get this again, are we? This sense of the tiredness, the weariness of it all. One of the great things about Peter being able to get older and get on with his life was that we were occasionally confronted with just how long he'd been fighting some of his villains, especially Norman. It's almost bleak, that sense of "We're getting way too old to be doing this, but what else is there to do?" I find it pretty powerful. Fucking OMD. Fucking Quesada.

>>93443191
What was up with the letter at the end of the whole Aunt May kidnapping story?

For me, the best way for Norman to operate is to be this slimy bastard that is always above the law and nobody can touch him. They know he does shady shit, but they can't find any traces. He's got ins with the US Goverment, he's well connected with the rest of the High Society.

Basically turn him into Frank underwood, but instead of wanting to be the President, he manipulates the President(s) of various countries through his power of the private sector. Make him petty and vengeful, but exapnd his sphere. He wantst to see everybody grovel, not just Peter.

And whereas somebody like Doom has a similar outlook, Norman works within the system and really doesn't give a rat's ass about anything. He's not a mass murderer, but he does see the people as ants. Literal ants. Which does bring him in conflict with Stark since he does represent the worst qualities of his lifestyle. Whereas Doom represents a Stark left unchecked.

Honestly, both norman & Victor work better as Stark villains, due to their personalities, standing in the MU and general character traits. At least IMO.

>>93443966
But that's mostly Norman as Stark's villain rather than Gobby.

>>93444130
Yeah, fair enough. But the Spidey/Gobby thing has run its course at this point that I think we need something new.

>>93443778
>I'd personally like to see Stormin Norman become the main villain of the MCU after Thanos is over and done with. A more human threat would be interesting.
If they don't go with this it'll be such a wasted oppertunity as long as Sony let's them.
I mean if they have to go with the Tony-Peter mentorship it at least sets up Norman well, he's one of the few famous villains the MCU now has, and the political climate is perfect for it

Crap, I really hope they reverse the whole 'no Spider-man staple characters' decision if they get that Spidey sequal.

>>93444158
Would Stark and Norman have the 'it's personal' element to make it work however?

I think Norman moonlighting as a Stark villain could work but I don't think there's enoufh of a relationship and history between the two for Osborn to full on transfer from being a Spider-man archnemesis to Ironman's.

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Why doesn't Stark just be Norman

>>93444231
You could make it work, I think. Both came from households with abusive fathers and both turned their respective business into global juggernauts.

Norman represents the kind of unchecked Capitalism that doesn't give a rat's ass about the peasants, whereas Tony believes in it as a system but is intrested in projects such as green cars and energy.

Furthermore, one enhanced his body through chemicals and serums, whereas the other chose tech. Different paths towards a similar goal. One deals with alcoholism, and the other with the Goblin persona.

There are themes that ou can play with between the two. I'm not saying he should be his nemesis (I think Doom would fit better there), but kinda like the Riddler to Tony's Batman. He wouldn't even need to dissappear from SM books, just make some "cameos" to the IM side.

>>93443742
>Everything started going to shit after Dark Reign.
If anything, looked like some shit writers wanted to write Lex Luthor, but there wasn't one at Marvel, so they turned Norman into him up to Dark Reign. Felt pretty far from classic Norman to me.

>>93444721
I will agree with that, but that's more of a fault of the Spider-Office never doing anything with him. He was the CEO of a giant corporation, surely he must have had SOME effect on the larger MU apart from tormenting Peter. He should've been built gradually as this Lex type, but Dark Reign was a breath of fresh air, so I didn't mind.

Although there was some build-up to it all. It started back in Civil War with the T-Bolts, and continued through Secret Invasion, so at least there was some groundwork laid out.

>>93444793
>He was the CEO of a giant corporation, surely he must have had SOME effect on the larger MU apart from tormenting Peter. He should've been built gradually as this Lex type
Doesn't mean it was supposed to be something as huge as Stark's company or anything like that. Remember, there's lots of people capable of building advanced weapons in their backyard at Marvel (well in the comics, at least). Also, Norman's completely nuts. Between work, managing his safehouses, tormenting Harry AND thinking of new ways to torment Peter, I'd be surprised if he had time or mind for anything else. Considering a lot of stories take like, half a year to tell with a single villain these days, I'm not sure he was forgotten. If anything, they spammed him all over the place later on.

Come to think of it, I think it was New Ways to Die that got me back into Spider-Man since that whole One More Day mess. It was nice to see Norman back as the Goblin.

>Although there was some build-up to it all. It started back in Civil War with the T-Bolts
Might have started a bit before actually, on Marvel Knights or something, from what I heard.

>>93445088
>Doesn't mean it was supposed to be something as huge as Stark's company or anything like that.
Sure, but before the incident, he was obsessed with outperforming his father and building a mega-corp. Even after the incident, the company still remained afloat. He must've done something between his Goblin stuff to keep it afloat and not get sacked by the board.

>Might have started a bit before actually, on Marvel Knights or something, from what I heard.
That's where his identity was revealed to the public.

>>93445131
>That's where his identity was revealed to the public.
Yeah, sorta meant that's where they started pushing the Lex Luthor angle. That run was from millar or bendis or something, right?

>>93445149
Millar.

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>>93442978
>Give Gobby some love!
Gwen already did

>>93442978
>better as a Stark enemy
he already has like 10 evil.buisnessman enemies, in fact arent they still even enemies

Norman's whole deal with Peter is a lot more personal and interesting desu

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Beat up fatboy

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And put aids in his waifu

>>93443191
>Peter's face when Norman DID cure cancer, and then used it to try and kill Deadpool

>>93443588
I could have sworn DC or Marvel did a massive swap like this for some 90s evet.

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I generally lean towards the opinion that Harry should have stayed dead, however I greatly enjoy his interactions with GloriousBastard-Norman.

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>>93446634
He's not even the worst dad in Marvel but he's the most significant villain that has fatherhood as an integral part of his story.

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Yeah I love the Goblin

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>No one posted the best one

>>93447052
They're all butthurt about Gwen

>>93446173
Yeah, and that's the point. All of his enemies are bussinessmen who make armors, or just guys in armors. And because Tony always has the best armor, he wins. It's why most of his good stories don't have to do with villains at all.

But Osborn could bring another threat to the table, and it's not like Spider-Man is using him at the moment. They've told every story they could with him. They've also destroyed OsCorp. Either kill him off already or let him develop past "hate boner for Peter".

>>93447052
Best boy Ellis!Gobby.

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>>93447407

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>>93447430
Sympathetic-Villains be damned.
I loved how much of a bastard Norman has become

Would Secret Empire be better if Norman was President and helping Steve?

>>93442978
Norman should've stayed dead the first time he died. All the stories involving him since have been shit (Clone Saga, Sins Past, Siege, all of Slott's shit) and derivative. Nothing's going to beat killing Gwen Stacy.

>>93447670
WE COULD RULE THIS WORLD, HARRY!

>>93447690
I just like his mug, and the idea that he bought it for himself either to spite Harry or because he thinks he deserves it.

>>93447227
Except when you pit him against Stark Osborn becomes the "serum and halloween costume guy." Pretty much everything you could do with him has already been done by his other corporate villains.

desu making Norman an Iron Man villain would probably neuter the character as well as make Harry pointless. You might as well just bring back Justin Hammer or Obidiah Stane if you wanted something similar

>>93447652
I liked him in Marvel Knights Spider-Man.

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>>93447652
Death of the family was pretty great. And Dark reign had its moments. He has his moments in general.

So current Ock is clone with all the Otto memories before he actually an hero'd himself? Is there a chance to redeem him if he remembers his own sacrifice?

B U M P

>>93443588

So really, what you want is "Acts of Vengeance 2".

Out im i?

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>>93443552
>Ghost is shitty

Fuck off you self-important monologuing faggot

>>93450386
Ghost's a dimaond in the rough. He, Zeke, and with some reworking Mandarin are the only IM foes worth a damn.

>>93443176
There's already the Mandarin.

>>93450464
Wait never mind, I remembered his backstory wrong.

>>93450386
We need some good Ghost story. He has so much potential.
I could imagine that Ghost creates much damage in the financial world, so that a group of various buisness men comes together to start a hunt for him.

>>93450421

Crimson Dynamo, Titanium Man, Spymaster, Living Laser, Blizzard, Melter, Dreadknight, Unicorn, Controller and Whiplash/Blacklash aren't bad supervillains, the problem was that Iron Man kept upgrading and his enemies didn't.

And no-one can decide if Crimson Dynamo is going to be a villain or a Russian superhero.

There's probably something you could do these days with the original concept of Firebrand as a far-left radical super-terrorist.

>>93450581
It's exactly what I'm saying. They have potential, but none of them are big enough for someone to rework them. You can rework them ala the Flash. Group the lovable losers into a Rogues-like group, have Zeke be his Thawne, etc, etc. But borrowing some villains like say, MODOK, or Norman, wouldn't be so bad IMHO.

>>93450780

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, Blizzard, Blacklash, Beetle, and sometimes Spymaster, used to work as a group which could've been exactly what you're saying, if it had lasted.

Most modern Marvel writers don't really seem to care about using old supervillains at all, or just use them like Bendis does, as a crowd of interchangeable losers who don't matter.

>>93442978
that nigga upsets me, it should be fucking dead, it`s anoying with his fucking flying shit and bombs, it`s a nigger basically, i hate him.

>>93450874
Yeah, I remember that. There was also that time Blizzard's brother suited up as him and Stark offered him a job due to it being Christmas. Generally the IM IP has lots of potential, but nobody is doing anything with it.

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>>93450386
>that ugly face

>>93443351

I like to think that there's someone within Marvel who will always be willing to fight them, and win. Fight them for Norman.

>>93450386
>>93450421
>>93450496

The trick for updating Iron Man villain's would be to position them in a clear political area

Ghost - moralist Anarchist
Iron Monger/Zeke - unprincipled Capitalist
Mandarin - legalist Autocrat
Controller - totalist Transhumanist
Firebrand - revolutionist Socialist

>>93443351
I get the feeling they're trying to ignore it into non existance.

It's like the opposite of what they do with OMD, where they continue teasing it in the hopes of boosting attention but apparently no intention of following through in the shortrun.
Here, they seem to just want everyone to forget it.

>>93452194
Exactly anon. but that would require a writer who can write different ideologies other than "good left"/"bad right", and put some effort besides "quippy Stark, techy armor". And Marvel's best is Bendis, so...

But still, I continue to believe that IM could be a goldmine at the hands of the right creative team.

>>93452692
>But still, I continue to believe that IM could be a goldmine at the hands of the right creative team.
That's literally any book. When is /co/ going to realize that there are no bad characters, only bad writers?

A character isn't bad because they're bad, a character is bad because either a writer doesn't know what to do with them, or you don't like the direction the character is going in.

>>93452692
>And Marvel's best is Bendis, so...
Honestly I don't think even at the Marvel offices they believe that.

>>93446437
Yup, Acts of Vengeance? Or something like that. Not sure if that was exactly when they fucked the Avengers up.

>>93447855
This, it would be cool to see him pitted against Iron Man once though, just so he could be properly BTFO'd.

>>93442978
I like it when villains aren't just an evil mirrored version of the the hero, it makes it fun to see different powers clash.

>>93452194
It's a good place to start but bringing it back to Norman; he's not just memorable because he's a good foil to Peter, it's because he's an interesting character unto himself.

One of the reasons Dark Reign worked was because it wasn't the story of a villain kicking ass untill eventually being taken down, it was the story of an evil man grasping and struggling to hold onto power and himself while everyone watched.

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>>93442978

Love? To that lunatic?! How about some admiration to the SUPERIOR GOBLIN?

>>93452859
Eh, depends. You can write a good run out of anybody, sure. But not everyone can support a franchise.

>>93453040
Well, he is who they put on IM when they wanted to turn it into the flagship. And then he tore down everything to prop up his Step-Daughter-insert...

>>93453150
Fair point. It's why IM suffers a bit, because most of his villains are just armored guys.

>>93453208
Well said.

>>93453231
I love me some Roderick, but Norman's the OG.

>>93442978

As a lifelong Spider-Man fan, I never liked any of the Osborn characters. I feel like Hobgoblin is much cooler design and personality wise.

>>93443574
Fuck you, No!

Daredevil has by far the worst rogues gallery in comics. Name more than two good rogues in his gallery.
> Kingpin
> Bullseye
I would argue that Elektra could be considered a rogue but you can't fuck your villains so..

Than you got what
> Leapfrog
> Stilt-Man
> Killgrave
> Owl

Even after the Miller relaunch we barely get any good daredevil villains. DD has the absolute worst villains hands down

>>93453335
It's probably because past "I'm a crazy guy who hates Parker", Osborn hasn't done anything drastic in SM books. It's why people love the Ellis/Dark Reign version.

>>93453369
Eh, there are some good ones. Mr. Fear, Coyote, Gladiator, Typhoid Mary, Ikari, Mr. Hyde...

Yeah, maybe Iron Man has a better gallery. At least he had his own Rogues-esque group, a magnificent bastard in Zeke, the Mandarin, and has clashed with Doom in multiple ocassions. Plus HYDRA, AIM and whatnot.

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>>93453308

OG? He's a nut! A quack! Now Kingsley. He's got style and an attitude you have to admire. Because all he cares about is himself even when he's inverted.

>>93453510
Roderick needs a bigger role in the MU. Dunno how, just... do it.

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>>93453566

Funny thing is, Roddy has pissed off just about everyone and could have been Flash's arch-nemesis when he was Venom.

It's shocking neither clashed when Flash was Venom given their personal history. Roddy put Flash through hell in the mid to late 80s. But I guess that's swept under because nobody wants to talk about Flash's Vietnamese girlfriend he got after his tour from Vietnam.

I'll give Slott one credit is that he gave Roddy a nice niche. It's just that nobody but a few has touched that niche. I mean he's basically the Hood now. Just that only Hopeless used that angle.

Now the suffering only continues with Bendis going to use him.

>>93453740
>Implying you aren't excited for him to throw down with the Bendis OP OC, Miles

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>>93454201

I feel awful that him, Sandman, and Spot have to make Miles strong via of course another stupid venom sting.

I can already see it now. Venom sting on Sandman rendering his form mute. Venom sting on the Spot which knocks him out mid port. Venom sting for EVERYONE!!

>>93454261
>YOU get a Venom Sting
>YOU get a Venom Sting ALSO
>EVERYBODY GETS A VENOM STING

t.Bendis

>>93454706

The only thing that fills me with some hope is this Sinister Six is mostly of people who are interested in attaining money, and Miles being there is only because of Bombshell. Maybe I'll get lucky. Maybe Bendis will be Bendis and use the Secret War Hobgoblin that he created and nobody ever used. Maybe he won't use Roddy.

>>93454794
Could be. Bendis loves using his OCs.

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>>93446660
Goddamn, how hot was he in this version? Like an evil, evil puma.

>>93442978
How though? Just because they're both businessmen? The last thing Tony needs is yet another evil businessman villain.

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>>93453231
I love Kingsley almost as much as I love Norman himself but I really wish we got to know more about him.
The only things we know about his past are when he appeared in the comics before he was the Hobgoblin and what little we know about his fashion industry past.
A little backstory couldn't hurt.
Note when I say backstory, I don't mean a tragic one. That's the opposite of what I'd want.

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>>93455926

With what we know there was some prior mental illness in his family. Hence his fears always that he would become insane and how he would distant himself as the Hobgoblin from time to time.

Though it's also obvious that there had to be something to forge Kingsley into a sociopath. Which make's him possibly a bigger monster than Osborn given he was always like this.

It's also apparent family means nothing to him. So who knows if Daniel was just another family member he used or cared barely for save as a pawn.

>>93456274
>Though it's also obvious that there had to be something to forge Kingsley into a sociopath
While it's obvious he displayed sociopathic tendencies beforehand, I'd like to think Belladonna's attempt on his life in his first appearance is what sent him down the path of becoming the Hobgoblin.
Almost dying by her hand made him realize that if he was going to keep screwing other people over and working close to the underworld he had to have a way to defend himself so this'd never happen again.

Of course this is just speculating and the odds of anyone currently at Marvel caring enough about continuity to even remember Kingsley's first appearances is extremely unlikely.

>>93456484

Well, he did screw people before hand and Belledonna hinted at a darker side to Kingsley which the reader didn't even see (cause it was Daniel in the role).

It's just when he found Norman's stash the way he casually kills Georgie suggests this wasn't his first and Georgie was always disposable. Which just goes to show how almost everyone in Kingsley's life is just that even his own brother.

>>93443057
Honestly after so many years it just seems like a pissed off old man picking on a guy he is jealous of now.

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>>93456543
But Belladonna trying to kill him was probably the first time this ever came back to bite him in the ass and it's not like he'd be able to defend himself at the time. I mean Spidey even remarked Roderick made him at his scrawniest look like Hercules. Admittedly this could've been Daniel but considering how he seems to be drawing up new, possibly stolen, fashion designs, it seems likely it is Roderick. The next scene with the burlap sacks is obviously Daniel thanks to the "oh ghod" remark, but that's quite sometime later, easily enough time for Roderick to switch Daniel in, knowing full well that Belladonna could strike again thus leaving poor Daniel to take the fall.

And him killing Georgie so casually does show this probably isn't the first time he's killed, I imagine he's put out more than a few hits on competing fashion designers. Probably the first time he personally did it rather than having someone else do it for him, though.

>>93453369

>Not appreciating Stilt-Man

Really, anon?

Owl wasn't bad before Bendis made him an idiot, and Mr Fear is a great, under-used villain.

>>93443191
which run is this page from?

>>93457902
Marvel Knights Spider-Man. Specifically the first twelve issues. The big Mark Millar arc. It was solid.

>>93443057
>THEMATICALLY, Venom is probably the best Spider-Man villain. Jungian Shadow brought to life, and all that.

Otto is better for this. He's a nerd with a chip on his shoulder who decided to use his science accident to make things even with a world he thought owed him. Just no uncle ben

>>93458101

Venom is the anti-Spider-Man, Otto is the anti-Peter Parker. It took a few decades for Otto to get all the backstory that really made it work, though.

>>93457361

True and that's probably why he went to using disposable lackeys at Amazing #238. He learned his lessons from Belladonna.

The way he casually killed Georgie though suggests to me it wasn't. There had to be more "Georgie's" and this was just the latest. After all, it was a recurring pattern too.

Lefty was the next "Georgie" and after him (via retcon), Ned. It was the entire set-ups for the dupes. So in a way Belladonna is probably to blame for why Kingsley keeps making dupes.

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> Norman will NEVER be this superior.

>>93453308
>Well, he is who they put on IM when they wanted to turn it into the flagship.
I meant Marvel probably knows he is far from the best, for some reason they just assume he sells.

>>93453740
>But I guess that's swept under because nobody wants to talk about Flash's Vietnamese girlfriend he got after his tour from Vietnam.

She was eventually brought back, though, and last showed up in Superior.

>>93443703

>>93443703

this. For everything that was going on you would have thought Spidey would have made more of an effort to stop him, but I think there -was- a reason for that.

It's been ages since I read a proper issue so excuse me if I am wrong but I remember him being in the position he was in left him somewhat untouchable. He didn't even make a huge effort to fuck with Spider-Man though he had the resources to do so if I remember correctly. A lot of it was Peter going "this man can't be trusted, ya'll know this right?

>>93444298

>no yellow lenses

ONE JOB, STARK

>>93448399
QUESTION - Did Slott write this arc?
Because for all the hate he justly gets this shit was solid.

>>93447052

only thing that triggers me about this page as magnicicent as it is, is that it's clearly not the costume he was wearing the night gwen stacy died.

>>93463094
It was Joe Kelly.

>>93453231
Rodrick is the most succesful guy and great character but Norman is the most fun villain.

What I like about them is that they are so different from one another, they don't have to be in competition.