>"Well I'll be damned."

>>93408394
I couldn't help but chuckle at this scene. Everyone's being blown up and he's looking at it in slow motion like "I *feel* like I could have stopped this".

>>93408394
You have to love his explosion-proof receding hairline too.
"Well doo-doos. People are gonna think I made this mess. Sigh."

>>93408394
"This is Fine."

>>93408394
>"Did I leave the stove on?"

>>93408394
"Pity, that blonde in row three was kinda hot."
"Ouch, that's an awful pun."

>Maybe I shouldn't have had Taco Bell

>>93408394
"You have to expect this sort of thing when you build everything out of cardboard."

>>93408394
>Hamilton's on your side.

>>93408394
>Is it warm in here? My insusceptibility to minor temperature changes makes it difficult for me to determine if humans are chilly or overheated.

>Maybe I'll open up a window and see how people feel about that.

>>93408394
Have you edited out hair or is that his natural hairline?

>>93408394
https://youtu.be/ZAX-y018pcY

Huh

>>93408394

Give me five, no, give me ONE good reason he didn't fly around the world and go back in time to save these people. I'll wait.

>>93408394
>"Sure beats that strong smell of urine."

This better get screen capped because this thread so far has just been legendary

>>93408770
kek

>It's still smell like piss

>>93408977
The screencap it, lazyass

Man this movie fucked over Superman so fucking bad.

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>>93408394

I liked this scene. Still don't get the meme. To me his face says
>I could have stopped this

>>93408394
>"There sure are a lot of people burning to death right now"
>"Should I help?"
>........."maybe in a minute"

>>93410095
That's what's dumb about it. Why didn't he?

>>93410095
Yeah he definitely could have stopped it.

>>93410277
Better question: why did Luthor blow the place up in the first place? How did it help with his plan? Nobody would think Superman would use a bomb, so it doesn't help for framing him (the very next scene has some Nancy Grace character confirming that nobody thinks it was Superman who did it).

But, like, Batman is watching that thing, and still gets angry at Superman about it... why again?

And why did Luthor want Graves dead?

And... you know what? Never mind.

>>93408914
He only ever did that once in the Ritchard Donner Superman movie, and everybody thought it was stupid so they never brought it up again.
You might as well ask why he never uses the power of shooting tinier version of himself at people.

>ITT: Plebs who don't understand kino
If shit taste was a disease, everyone in this thread, except from me, would be dead.

>>93410048
Kek

>>93408394
I can't look at this scene anymore without hearing the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme.

>>93410095
He couldn't, that's the whole point of lois investigation

>>93410277
Because it was lined with lead. Pls watch movies you claim to dislike.

>>93410354
Lex does it to get rid of the senator and to make a scene about how danger follows superman, whether he does it or not.

Batman is mad because in his mind Superman is still responsible, because he thinks that Wally Weaver did it because he hated Superman.

>>93410442
Yes, but he doesn't know that. He gets freaked out and thinks that he didn't see it because he wasn't paying attention.

>>93410354
The point was to get Bruce and the world wondering why Supes didn't stop it. With Bruce's hateboner over Kryptonians, it was just another thing to have Bruce REEEEEEEE over because once again he did nothing to save people. Also to ramp up the guilt because he just barely found out about Waynetech fucking with the life of the guy everyone thinks is the bomber.

>>93410473
Hey when did we establish Clark can't see through lead in these movies?
In fact I can't even remember him using x-ray vision at all in Man of Steel, but it has been a while.

>>93410514
>Hey when did we establish Clark can't see through lead in these movies?

Everyone knows that though.
Every new comic run doesn't tell you things you already know.

>>93410514
He's only seen using it once in Man of Steel in one of the flashbacks with him as a kid.

>>93410490
Yeah, that's the point, he doesn't understand what just happened.

>>93410514
>>93410565
And he does use X-Ray vision in MoS in the classroom.

>>93410514
Lois tells you. Also, both batman and Lex discovered on their own, probably watching footage of superman,bit it's retarded yo waste time on a montage of them watching videos on YouTube while drinking red bull

>>93410565
>Everyone knows that though.
The movie going audience doesn't.
It's a new universe, a new tone, a new take. That means we need to re-establish the rules and can't take them for granted.
>Every new comic run doesn't tell you things you already know.
Comic runs build off of those that came before (unless we're talking Wonder Woman anyway). These movies aren't building off a foundation, but rather setting up a new foundation.

>>93410576
>>93410584
I thought that might've been the case because I kept thinking it was in the school scenes as a kid but then I remembered that's where he got heat vision. X-ray vision is less memorable in comparison.

>>93410655
The movie going Audience does know that, just like they know batman's botler is called Alfred.

>>93410655
>Comic runs build off of those that came before
No?
In practice, no.
also this-
>>93410673

>>93410473
Are wheelchairs usually lined with lead?

>>93410719
Watch the movie pls.

>>93410673
>The movie going Audience does know that,
Then why are people asking about it now?
I don't understand why any time I have a criticism that it's not like what's come before I get >not muh but then when I ask to set up a new and different superman I have to rely on what's come before. It's hypocritical.

>>93410715
Yes. Barring complete event reboots, runs generally keep any big changes from before. That's like saying his kid's gonna suddenly disappear once this current AC run ends.

But whatever, perfect movie 10/10 no flaws ever kino.

>>93410719
Yes. And there's no such thing as bomb sniffing dogs, or loaner wheelchairs. No security whatsoever. Fuck you. The movie's perfect. You didn't watch it. Your retarded.

>>93410793
>But whatever, perfect movie 10/10 no flaws ever kino.
And once again, no has said this but the person strawmanning.

>>93410808
You didn't watch the movie either.
Lois eventually gets Cat Grant to check the wheelchair.

>>93410808

This wheelchair was specifically lined with lead by Luthor to make Superman look bad for not noticing.

>>93410793
Is not people, is just autistic people. Here that hates Snyder. Normal people were talking about the lead in batman's granade.

No one asked when superman discovered he had superstrenght either

>>93408394
>>>93410473
>Are wheelchairs usually lined with lead?


Lex. Gave him The fucking chair.

>thread that makes a joke evolves into another autistic DCEU argument thread
/co/, you never fail to impress.

>>93410514
>In fact I can't even remember him using x-ray vision at all in Man of Steel

I think in the scene where he turns himself into the government, he turns and addresses government officials standing on the opposite side of a wall even though he should have no clue that they're standing there.

>>93410942
*turns himself in to the government

Although Superman taking over the US government would have been infinitely more interesting than the plot of Man of Steel. Would have set up BvS quite nicely too.

>>93410942
I thought he was looking at one of those two way mirror deals.

>>93410845
So it's also assumed to be bomb detection proof because Lex gave it to him. Okay, it's a stretch, but whatever. And security allowed him to keep it instead of giving him a loaner wheelchair from the back closet because you'll just call me retarded or autistic if I question it.

This high profile hearing and there's no security measures at all? I can't even take shampoo on a plane without getting the third degree and you expect me to think that a senate hearing, possibly the most important one in the course of human history, is going to let a guy roll in with a 50 pound piece of machinery that's not been vetted by anybody?

>>93411156
>So it's also assumed to be bomb detection proof because Lex gave it to him.

No, because there is literally a line where they say "the chair was lined with lead". Did you watch the movie?

>>93410884
>No one asked when superman discovered he had superstrenght either
Because the movie establishes it. It shows him as a kid bending metal fences when he's tense. When does the movie establish lead is something he can't see through prior to the explosion?

>They figured it out off camera
>They don't have to
Is just bad writing. It's firing a chekov's gun that was never on stage.

>>93411220
I don't think it is bad writing. You're looking at writing in a vaccuum.
The fact is that Superman fans know about the lead thing.

It's like if Adventures of Superman by Millar reintroduced Supes' weaknesses.

>>93408394
>tfw your little brother breaks something and you know you're getting blamed for it

>>93411207
Okay
Once Again.
Lining it with lead keeps SUPERMAN specifically from seeing the bomb, in that moment. Yes. Lex accounted for that.
What keeps a bomb sniffing dog from smelling the explosion? Lead wouldn't do that. What keeps the xray and bodyscanner he presumably went through to open the building from going "why is there this huge black box in his wheelchair?"\
I've been through enough security checkpoints to know they'd flag you if there was a thing in your luggage and they can't tell what it is. and that's just for regular commuter travel with TSA half assing it, not for a full on meeting of the government.

>>93410925
Snyderfags take no holidays, shitposting is their religion.

>>93411286
>The fact is that Superman fans know about the lead thing.
The movie isn't just for Superman fans.
And again, when I compare it to other Superman stuff unfavorably, I'm told to fuck off and that this is new and different. You people are hypocrites. You latch onto the source material to defend it but you won't let people use the source material to criticize and say the movie failed to live up to it.

>>93411303
Because Lex made the chair custom dude. The whole chair was his gift to Weaver.
Of course he made it able to pass muster.
Jesus.

>>93411329
>The movie isn't just for Superman fans.
But i'm a Superman fan so it works for me. And if a Superman movie isn't for Superman fans then it's doing something wrong.

>And again, when I compare it to other Superman stuff unfavorably, I'm told to fuck off and that this is new and different. You people are hypocrites. You latch onto the source material to defend it but you won't let people use the source material to criticize and say the movie failed to live up to it.
Kill yourself, i'm just me. I'm not a collective of like minded people.

>>93410845
>This wheelchair was specifically lined with lead by Luthor to make Superman look bad for not noticing.

Can you point which scene of the movie say this?

Or is it your Headcanon? You need proof.

>>93410490
because he wasn't. He's a reporter and while not Batman level investigation skill he could summize that something would be up with the lead lined wheelchair.

its a garbage scene.

>>93411437
What?
That's like defending the Martha scene by saying that Reporters know that names (Martha) humanize stories more than titles (Mom).

Can't have it both ways.

>>93411401

It's literally in the movie. One of the examiners say "the wheelchair was lined with lead"

>>93411401
>Can you point which scene of the movie say this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fR2xlaIWo

It's somewhere in this video.

>>93408394
>*record scratch
>yep, that's me

>>93411378
>And if a Superman movie isn't for Superman fans then it's doing something wrong.
I agree on that.
But it didn't work for me. Dour crybaby fuckup doesn't work for a lot of people, including many Superman fans.

>>93411461
Who defends that? Its all trash.

>>93411401
4:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0fR2xlaIWo

>>93411519
I do, because it isn't.

>>93411519
You have no idea, mate. If Superman farted on screen for 30 minutes Snyderfags would claim it's a deep commentary on America's health issues

>>93411378
>if a Superman movie isn't for Superman fans then it's doing something wrong.
Making a 250 million dollar movie aiming at Superman fans is a sure way to get a flop, and BvS was dangerously close to a flop.
It had the worst combination of deviation from the original characters and basing lots of things in a supposed known background for the characters that wasn't properly introduced in the movie for the general audience.
Shit, I didn't even realize the guy that came out of Bruce's computer was supposed to be Flash at first, and even when I did, it makes no fucking sense in the context of the movie and never pays off. The movie was very poorly thought and put together. You can tell they were a couple of drafts away from a proper shooting screenplay but they shot it anyway.

>>93410354
>But, like, Batman is watching that thing, and still gets angry at Superman about it... why again?
Reminds me of Star Trek Into Darkness, when Kirk's in the reactor, and Spock goes all KHHAAANNNN!!!!!! Damn it, Spock, Admiral Marcus is the one at fault there, Khan had nothing to do with it.

>Damn, someone should call Superm...oh wait

>>93412156
Someone who thought Man of Steel was a perfect movie sent me a link called a "thesis on man of steel", where a guy talks about how deep and special the movie is. I had to turn it off after 5 minutes because the man was talking about how Superman was being "ejaculated into the cosmos" and that the whole thing was a metaphor for impregnation (Superman is jizz, Earth is a vagina).

>>93412459
Brings a whole new meaning to Superdickery.

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>>93412459
I saw that one, still not sure if it's satire or not

>tfw he compares Zod to a literal douche that cleans the semen out of the vagina

>>93412459
There's a website literally called "the bible of Zack Snyder", they call movies like Watchmen and MoS art and experimental

Hell, it's not even just about the capes, these people convinced themselves Sucker Punch is a deep feminist critique. Is that what happens when your films are crap but still flashy enough to mesmerize? What prompts these fanboys to look for all sorts of ways to prove these movies are more than meets the eye

>>93412667
>What prompts these fanboys to look for all sorts of ways to prove these movies are more than meets the eye
So they don't feel they've wasted their time watching escapist fantasies with no substance, and also they can pretend being intellectual without reading real books.

>>93411467
But that's retarded. Superman knows when something is lined with lead because he cant see through it. That should have raised his suspicions.

>>93411401
>>93410655
>>93410514
snyder haters cant even remember the movies right, they literally make up stuff to hate. Hilarious!

>>93412739
Not everyone bothered to watch the extended cut which barely fixes anything

>>93412738
The scene is contrived in general. The movie or MoS never established that Supes can't see through lead... yet Lex knows somehow so he hides the bomb in it... but Superman doesn't notice it anyway because why would he even look for a bomb? And if he did look, as you said, why didn't he find it suspicious that the chair's mechanisms were invisible to him? And then we get 10 minutes of exposition about it from a character made just for that. No wonder this shit was cut

>>93411514
I'm not the guy you are replying to, but how many Superman comics have you read?

I've read Byrne's Man of Steel (not his entire run though)
All Star Superman
Secret Identity (which MoS and BvS take a lot from)
Birthright (which MoS takes some parts from)
Superman Ending Battle
What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?
For The Man Who Has Everything
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
Final Crisis (I count that as a Superman story, as much as it is a Batman story or a Flash story)
Secret Origin
For All Seasons
most of Adventures of Superman, including that one three part arc about Superman at the end of the universe.
I've read most, if not all, of the Smallville comic
I've watched all of Smallville
I've watched all of the Donner movies
I've watched all of the Timmverse
I've watched the Fleischer cartoons
I've watched MoS and Superman Returns
And I think these have been great movies about Superman. I dont really how you see how you can say he is dour, he really isn't gloomy for the majority of his time on screen. His first talk with Lois is pretty light in tone and he seems very understanding, and they are on the brink of an alien invasion. He displays a range of emotions; anger, happiness, desire, despair, and most of all hope.

His tears at the end of MoS, when he is forced to kill Zod, really shows his emotional vulnerability.


And the only time he is really dour in the last third and I think thats really understandable, given he thinks his very presence caused a terrorist attack and drove one of Gotham's greatest heroes to become a killer/villain.

And even then, he gets over it all pretty fast via meditating on a mountain and then he gets over his dour mood again by having a team up with Batman.
Also I REALLY dont see how you can say he is a crybaby or a fuck up, he is appropriately emotional and has fucked up far less than any other incarnation of Superman.

>>93412738
And like I said it shouldn't even have gotten that far because the same logic applies to humans.
If you go through a security check with a big black spot on your scan that they can't tell what it is, then security's not gonna wave you through. They're gonna stop you and say "What are you hiding in this big black thing we can't scan?"

>>93412765
The guy literally said he cant even remember them doing x-ray vision at all when had done it numerous times in both movies.

>>93412892
>I pulled up Superman's wikipedia article trust me I'm a true fan Snyder is a genius that totally gets it

>>93412910
>numerous times
You're thinking of heat vision.

>>93412827
>>93412738
>>93412904
why do you guys think Superman is scanning everything with his x-ray vision? When has he EVER been shown as to constantly be scanning everything all the time with x-ray vision? A single source?
Also you guys are making A LOT of assumptions. Bombs are super small now, all it takes is a tiny little compartment lined with led.


Also


>If you go through a security check with a big black spot on your scan that they can't tell what it is, then security's not gonna wave you through. They're gonna stop you and say "What are you hiding in this big black thing we can't scan?"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3105820/EXPOSED-dozens-explosives-weapons-TSA-checkpoints-95-PERCENT-undercover-airport-tests.html

>>93412892
Not him by the way.
>I will list things, and you should believe me.
>also superman's first casual comics
Kek.

Anyway, you are ignoring the fact that you might be just an idiot.

>>93412910
Just saying. It's true that the movie doesn't bring much attention to it tho

>>93412291
Abrams is the master of the homaging things and completely missing the point.

>>93412947
No, he did x-ray numerous times. He did it in his school as a kid, he did it when he looked through the one way mirror and looked through the guy's pocket, he did it to observe from space/thesky Lois when she was in the middle east, and he did it on bruce's mask when they fight.

>>93412962
>Just saying. It's true that the movie doesn't bring much attention to it tho
see
>>93412967

The movie brings A LOT of attention to it. To the point where Superman flat out says "I guess I just didnt want to see it" because he is that disappointing in himself that he wasnt more paranoid and x-raying everyone constantly.

>>93412951
Well, that's what i said, the lead subplot is dumb because Superman was never going to look in the first place. As opposed to the Africa situation, cutting out the scenes about it was a good idea, they only wasted everyone's time

>>93412951
>TSA
>Implying they'd halfass security on the biggest human history.
All it would've taken to fix it is a ten second scene of Mercy slipping some money to a guy in a security uniform and Snyder can't even story structure his way into doing that. Nope, better to have them shit exposition at us after the fact.

>>93412955
>>93412892
>dont have an argument
>try and discredit real fans instead

thats really, really, really pathetic.

>>93412967
>he did it when he looked through the one way mirror
That's not necessarily proof of x-ray vision, man. People know what one way mirrors are and that people stand behind them. That's what they're for.

>>93412965
Is there more than one master of that because I'd sure as fuck place Snyder above Abrams at doing that.

>>93413022
He literally looks right at the guys behind the mirror, reads their name tags, AND says what is in their pocket. Are you really this dumb?

>>93408394
>Does that usually happen? I've never been to court before.

>>93412892
>Read What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?
>Superman killing Zod is totally is right character for him

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>>93413012
Your "argument" is just making baseless claims bout yourself.

Them saying the falacy that you reading comics and liking shit should automaticaly means that shit is good. When a perfectly reasonable position of "you are just an idiot with shit taste, and your opinion doesnt matter because you are a blind fanboy" is valid.

By the way, its one of the oldest and most well know rules on cinema that making an all powerful protagonist that mopes around and feel sorry for himself for problens that HE actively causes (while doing nothing to change it), is one of the shittiest ways to writte a protagonist.

Face it, if this shit was well written, so many people until this day wouldnt shit on it.

>>93413001
>cant actually post any proof to back up his claims
>>93413001
>his only argument is WHY WASNT SECURITY BETTER REEEEEEEEEE

And literally a movie about human error though. AND once again, you are ignoring the logical argument of how small bombs are and actual proof that full body scanners (which they dont have at government buildings by the way) dont work most of the time.

AND you are ignoring the fact that WHEEL CHAIRS DONT GO THROUGH SCANNERS. What is the point of putting a metal wheel chair through a METAL DETECTOR.


Its like how at airports they didnt make you take off your shoes until somehow snuck a bomb through using their shoe.

>>93413073
Anon, Superman has killed Zod before. Although the point is that it was in precise and peculiar circumstances, not on his first day without the story ever addressing his view on killing. MoS just did it poorly, and it's not a surprise considering Zod's death was something that only came up during production, he was supposed to just end up in the phantom zone

>>93411481
>Now I know what you're thinking: this is way past a job for Superman...
>But let me tell you, this isn't what it looks like. For starters, the raging inferno I'm standing in the middle of used to be a courtroom.
>And me? I used to be everyone's favourite hero before everyone wanted me t go up, up and away...
>But I guess things have a way of changing.
>[Changes by David Bowie starts playing]
>[Footage begins rewinding]
>Why don't we take this back to the beginning?

>>93413022
>People know what one way mirrors are and that people stand behind them. That's what they're for.

Except he reads a man's name tag and says what kind of candy the man has in his jacket pocket...

>>93413102
but you ignored the actual arguments seen after the list
>>93412892

also somehow his opinion is less valid than the "superman fan" who did name ANY superman comics? Really?

>By the way, its one of the oldest and most well know rules on cinema that making an all powerful protagonist that mopes around and feel sorry for himself for problens that HE actively causes (while doing nothing to change it), is one of the shittiest ways to writte a protagonist.

Where does he do that? Did you even watch the movie? Also what problems are caused by him that he mopes about?

>>93413130
Not just a court room, but the US Capitol. Literally the most important building in the entire country.

>>93412667
I think some people don't want to admit that they love a dumb movie. Which is crazy, because this is a movie about a man who dresses up like a bat and tries to kill an invincible alien who happens to look exactly like a normal human man of English descent.

>>93413127>>93413127


>Zod's death was something that only came up during production, he was supposed to just end up in the phantom zone

No, Snyder decided on the death before they started filming. Dont spread lies


Also you are dumb, how does it make more sense to have Zod kill after having a long history of not killing?

>>93413130
I need an edited video now.

>>93413167
the Senate building is not the most important building anon, that would be the president's office.

>>93413172
Wasn't killing Zod establish Supes' no-kill rule? How did that work out when in the beginning of BvS he slams a terroist through fifty concrete walls in the Middle East?

>>93413073
>he hasnt read Man of Steel


ahahah you stupid fucking plebs make me laugh. Of course plebs like you think you know superman better.

>>93413167
This. I could forgive the idea of bad security if it's just a regular court hearing. Maybe Superman knocks over a building somewhere, a federal judge calls him for trial, and an opportunistic Senator sees an opportunity to get some publicity and acts like a witness. But the Capitol building? Absurd. Anyone who has been to DC knows that security around most government buildings is intense as hell, even random places like Old Executive Office Building in nw dc that doesn't even serve a purpose anymore. No way do you sneak an explosive that powerful into the fucking Capitol.

>>93411480
>>93412739
>>93411525
None of these scenes with Jenna Malone are even in the movie. They're only on the Blu Ray.

>>93413192
It did establish his no kill rule, and he didnt killed that terrorist. If you watch the scene, Superman is flying through the walls, carrying the terrorist with him. If you need a precise visual, imagine Superman has his arm around the terrorist so its the back of his arm that is destroying the walls.

If you really think he killed that guy, when the movie flat out says he didnt, then idk what to tell you, you are literally believing your own headcanon.

>>93413229
And thats not Snyder's fault, that is the WB exec's fault.

>>93412892
>how many Superman comics have you read?
Oh hey is this that appeal to authority thing? I'm game.
Let's see...
I've read the entire Byrne run, For All Seasons, Secret Identity, Red Son, Birthright (maybe my personal favorite because of the color theory), Secret Origin, Earth One (which sucked, it's so trying to be Spider-man), What's So Funny, Death of, Reign of, Whatever Happened, Our Worlds at War (and lemme tell you that was creepy), All Star, Peace on Earth, American Alien (better than I thought it was going to be), Speeding Bullets, all of Loeb's Superman/Batman, The most recent Action Comics run, that one issue of Adventures Of where he basically teams up with the Iron Giant, the Smallville comic, the DCAU comic, JLA: The Nail parts 1 and 2, JLA: Act of God, JLA: Created Equal , Superman: The Last Family of Krypton, Yes, Tyrone, There Is A Santa Claus, True Brit, Last Son of Earth. Oh and it doesn't count but all of Kon-El Superboy as well. Issue...85, I wanna say, maybe 86, is the one where we find out that Superman is a Metallica fan and owns all their albums. Guess which one is his favorite?

Watched all of Smallville, the DCAU, Lois and Clark, the Donner movies (and III and IV) Returns, and the two Snyder movies. Got all the action figures and five or six t-shirts too.

And I thought this Superman was a passive cowardly antisocial bitch that didn't inspire shit and died a horrible death because life was too much suffering.

>>93413177
It's debatable, Congress and the Presidency are on even footing these days but traditionally, and under the letter of the law, Congress is more powerful. Congress still controls all the money, too (insert cliche phrase about money=power, etc. etc.).

>>93413234
Oh, it only LOOKED like he liquefied the terrorist by drilling through several brick walls. When he could have just... grabbed him and broke his gun.

>>93413172
Because it brings pathos? Superman killing Zod in Byrne's run for example has so much significance because we know it's such a big step for him, as he explains himself. It's not compelling to see them having a city-destroying brawl ending in blood, it's just miserable, AND the movie ignores it because 10 seconds later everyone is happy and smiling. Coward movies do that. TASM2 did that, dismissed Gwen's death with a quick montage

>>93413040
No I just don't remember it. I was wrong there. Fair enough. I don't watch the film every weekend looking for new ways to defend it. I watched it twice three years ago and that was more than enough.

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>>93413256
>And I thought this Superman was a passive cowardly antisocial bitch that didn't inspire shit


Any evidence in the movie to support this opinion? Because you are objectively wrong at least about the inspiring part. It is a fact he inspires Batman to create the justice league.

>>93413242
>>93413229
Wait, they are using as "justification" a scene that was REMOVED from the movie? Fucking idiots.

>>93413263
Smashing through brick walls is cooler tbf

>>93413266
I wonder if Superman's seeming lack of care for millions of human casualties was meant to make audiences more sympathetic when Batman tries to kill him. Superman grabs hold of Zod and throws him around multiple times. Not once does he grab him and throw him into the vast, empty, uninhabited space that makes up roughly 80% of the USA.

>>93413256
But that anon didnt start the appeal to authority, the one he was responding to did.

See
>>93411514

>>93413154
>Also what problems are caused by him that he mopes about?
Pretty much all the events in Man of Steel, for one.

>>93413234
>It did establish his no kill rule
We didnt even knew that he iddnt had one before that scene, and he never says that he "has" one on the next movie.

It was a horrible way to "stabelish" anything if it is never brought up.

>>93413307
>I had a perfectly reasonable motivation to kill you based on the fact that you have godlike power, could possibly snap one day, and have shown a lack of concern for the deaths of innocent
>But our mommies had the same name! Wanna be besties?

>>93408394
This thread started off fun, now it's just turned into sad, autistic arguing over a movie. Which is honestly kinda funny because I've never seen this amount of persistent autism since Scrapper.

>>93413263
so what is your argument? That you wanted him to do in a different way because you thought he killed a guy and couldnt be bothered to listen when the movie explicitly tells you didnt kill anyone?

>>93408394
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1o3koTLWM

>>93411207
>>93412739
you fucking autists, it was the extended edition that mentions the lead lining and only the extended

>>93413335
Yeah, you quoted me twice. Now go up to the post I was responding to where that anon says that Superman fans loved the movie and that it was for them.

I am a Superman fan.
I've routinely been told this was not for me. Going "Well I'm a bigger fan and I love the movies what have YOU read" is just dumb and that's why I didn't do it. But hey, someone else chose to open the door on that so why not?

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>>93413334
>I wonder if Superman's seeming lack of care for millions of human casualties
>Superman grabs hold of Zod and throws him around multiple times. Not once does he grab him and throw him into the vast, empty, uninhabited space that makes up roughly 80% of the USA.

Why are you spreading lies? Its really amazing how you have to make up a movie to hate.

>>93413334
Earlier in the movie he's the one to bring the fight in Smallville, destroying multiple properties in the process. Snyder just doesn't care, he wants his massive city destructions and that's it, hence the "THIS PART OF THE CITY IS TOTALLY EMPTY GUYS" lines in BvS, so he could go on with his wishes without being bothered to contextualize them in a way that doesn't make the characters look like the biggest fools kn the planet

>>93413403
The city is clearly visible behind the line...?

>>93413365
Snyderman is the new Azula.

>>93413403
Is this really your argument? That he throws him into an area that *isn't* downtown, and that this is somehow going to *lower* casualties? Have you ever been to an American city in your life?

>>93413403
>downtown

Downtown isn't a snynonym for the entire city...he's just punching Zod towards another heavily populated area.

>>93413266
So literally you are saying the tone was wrong? It was TOO serious about handling his killing? And then its not okay for them to move on after?

> It's not compelling to see them having a city-destroying brawl ending in blood, it's just miserable, AND the movie ignores it because 10 seconds later everyone is happy and smiling.

There is a whole sequel that deals with it. And I guess you are right, a Superman movie shouldnt end with a tonal re-assurance to the audience that everything is okay, despite the tough choices that had to be made.

>>93413403
>Basically the edge of town
>The entire horizon beyond that first line of buildings is nothing but more city.
The fuck?
And if anything that area would be more populated as its still the city but further out from the black zero crash site. That's where people would be running to.

>>93413427
>The city is clearly visible behind the line...?

It says "Edge of down town" can you not read? And right behind the suburbs you can see the mountain/island/ocean. Are you blind?

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>>93413441
>>93413463
>>93413483


see
>>93413490


You can CLEARLY see the non city right behind the suburbs behind downtown. Its amazing how much you guys lack in critical thinking. I even cropped it out for you to make it clearer.

>>93413359
>changing the argument
>he thinks Martha is what stopped Batman and not Lois

wow, you guys are pathetic. Not only do you have to make up a movie to hate, you have to change arguments when you cant come up with anything.

>>93413473
No, I think his point is that Superman having a massive brawl ending with him killing somebody doesn't feel like a good man who is incredibly opposed to violence being forced to do something awful. It feels like a fucking Pacific Rim/Transformers movie.

I agree that BvS addresses this perfectly, but you can't say "the sequel fixes it!" when we're criticizing the movie itself.

>>93413490
>It says "Edge of down town" can you not read?

Downtown is just one section of the city...again, have you ever been to an American city in your life?

>>93413473
>It was TOO serious about handling his killing?
It wasn't serious enough because of how quickly they moved on. There's a big scream, but fuck all for denouement after that.

It worked in Byrne because we had a whole issue after the dead where he buried the bodies and angsted about it.
He's wrong to compare it to ASM2 though; even that had a montage of Peter quitting and being depressed for six months. MoS just had him skip straight to crashing satellites and cracking jokes about it.
Tonal whiplash isn't the same as reassurance, and a sequel is not the same as denouement.

>>93413322
>the story the filmmaker made is flawed if someone else took out scenes without the filmmaker themselves having any say

k

>>93413344
He is moping when he turns himself in? He is moping when he is fighting zod and protecting us? He is moping when flies for the first time? He is moping when he saves everyone from the fire? He is moping when fucks up and wrecks the guy's car out of anger? Do you know what moping means? Show me an actual scene of him moping (the only one I can think of is when he is like "you arent my real dad!")

>>93413521
Those aren't suburbs. Those are more skyscrapers. Do you not get how perspective works? For those buildings to be that distinct and visible they've gotta be pretty damn big.

Are you looking at the sky and thinking that's empty land?

>>93413532
I think it is Martha, because

>"save....Martha"
>*Batman pauses*
>"why did you say that name?!"
>Batman has never considered the possibility that other people named Martha exist
>Lois Lane shows up, well, that's convenient
>"Martha is his mother's name"
>Well, I guess that settles everything

If Lois Lane had actually stopped Batman, by trying to stop him the way Batman's parents tried to stop the mugger, I would understand. But just saying Martha? Fucking Martha? That's it?

>>93413349
you are really dumb if you need things to be spelled out for your so clearly. He was in a situation where he was forced to take a life. After doing it, he regrets it so hard he decides to never do it again and in BvS he sacrifices himself instead of putting anyone else's life in danger or killing anyone.


This isnt hard to follow.

>>93413473
It's not tone, is just poorly handled, the fact that Zod dies doesn't automatically make it serious, in fact the whole sequence is incredibly shallow and immature for me

>>93413490
The only mountain visible is ridiculously far and the ocean, assuming it's ocean, is on the left. You're proving nothing, you can scream all you want that the movie is 2subtle4me, that doesn't prove that your projections on the movie are real. That's a really fast scene, it's insane to think a still image of it encompasses such an important message. You're insane. This conversation is insane. Fuck this, it's been 4 years, you guys will never get over it. I'm going to sleep

Who am i kidding, tomorrow mirning this shit thread will be still standing

>>93413229
>>93413384

I didn't realize that, the first time I saw the movie was at a friend's house and I guess he had the extended edition. Fair enough then, this yet another flaw in the movie, although you can still explain the situation as "Superman didn't bother looking at a guy's wheelchair because he didn't bother looking". He's not Batman, he's not going to be scanning every inch of a room for threats the moment he walks in.

>>93413402
>I've routinely been told this was not for me.

By who? The filmmakers or random internet idiots? Why listen to random internet idiots?

>>93413567
You asked what problems were caused because of his moping.
Zod's entire presence on earth is a result of Clark's actions.
That's all the problems. Except for Jonathan's death, which was also caused by Clark not being brave enough to face the consequences of his actions at nineteen years old.

Now's the part where you say "NO IT WAS ABOUT TRUST".

>>93413543
>Downtown is just one section of the city...again, have you ever been to an American city in your life?


see
>>93413521

>>93413601
He kills Doomsday.
But that doesn't count because he's a monster that was gonna kill everyone. Not like Zod.

>>93413546
>It worked in Byrne because we had a whole issue after the dead where he buried the bodies and angsted about it.


And there was a whole movie afterwards that dealt with it. If it works with Byrne because of what comes after, then that applies here too.

>>93413546
>Byrne's worked because of the sequel
>but that doesnt count for Snyder!!!

you guys are so pathetic it hurts.

>>93413630
By the film's defenders, so the second group, I suppose. You know what? Good point.
I'm gonna leave the thread on your advice.

>>93413659
>>93413671

Oh yeah, remember that scene with Clark mentioning Zod at all...

>>93413601
>After doing it, he regrets it so hard he decides to never do it again

Oh yes, I remember the scene where he gives Doomsday a hug and politely explains why killing is wrong and Doomsday says that he understands and respects Superman's position then leaves Earth forever. If you're going to pretend that your hero has a no-kill rule, maybe you shouldn't argue that when we're discussing two movies that both involve him committing murder.

>>93413569
Are you THIS blind? Do you not see the ocean/island right next to the edge of the city.

>>93413659
>If it works with Byrne because of what comes after, then that applies here too.
>>Byrne's worked because of the sequel
>>but that doesnt count for Snyder!!!
Ah but denouement (which again is not a sequel; the complete narrative of comics is structured differently than movies so trying to compare the two is disingenuous of you) is only part of it. It also works for Byrne but not here because of what came before it as well. The preceding story supported it better than Snyder's did.

>>93413691
...and? That's a long, long way away. Why wasn't Superman consistently pushing Zod in that direction? Why does he just keep tossing him into random buildings? Why, on any of the several occasions in the fight where Zod is chasing him, does he not just fly out towards the ocean, taking the fight somewhere where nobody will die except maybe an unlucky fisherman?

>>93413691
Highlight it. I'm following the perspective line and there's just more buildings and then sky above the horizon.

Or just keep going YOUR BLIND because I know that's how you people work

>>93408394
I burst out laughing when this happened.
He just looks so bored. Like he's also done with this shitty movie

>>93413633
>Zod's entire presence on earth is a result of Clark's actions.

No, and he isnt moping when he is there. In fact him activating the kryptonian ship is the opposite of moping. Also the ship was there whether Superman was there or not, and there was definitely other kryptonian keys in the ship so it would have been activated anyway.

> Except for Jonathan's death, which was also caused by Clark not being brave enough to face the consequences of his actions at nineteen years old.
>Now's the part where you say "NO IT WAS ABOUT TRUST".


But it was. You are literally making up headcanon to prove your narrative. Its really really sad. You might be insane.

>>93413578
You really didnt watch the movie did you? Batman asks why Superman said that name and then starts choking Superman even harder.

He doesn't stop till after Lois comes, the same Lois his dream/future Flash TOLD HIM was the key. And Lois explains that its his mom. Its Lois that stops Batman, and its Lois that Batman ultimately listens to.

>>93413646
Doomsday was literally a zombie.

>>93413807
>choking

Yes. Choking. Not stabbing with the nice shiny kryptonite spear that would end the whole thing in an instant. He is stopping himself from killing Superman. At that point he's interrogating him.

>>93413690
Doomsday was a zombie my dude. You really have a problem with them killing re-animated monsters?

>>93413646
>>93413690
You cant murder the undead you fucking idiots.

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>>93413609
>The only mountain visible is ridiculously far

single punches from them are sending them flying miles and miles, it would take maybe 2 more punches to get that far.


> you can scream all you want that the movie is 2subtle4me, that doesn't prove that your projections on the movie are real.

where am I doing that? Suddenly paying attention to a movie and location is projecting?


>it's insane to think a still image of it encompasses such an important message.

What important message? Its just illustrating that despite Superman trying his hardest, Zod is in control of the battle. Do you think THIS is what is illustrating the message of Superman wanting to save us, and not the fact that his first action was turning himself over?


Also he tried the same thing in Smallville, I'm sorry you were incapable of remembering.

>>93413646
I'm not defending the writing in these movies but Doomsday has always been THE exception to Superman's no-kill rule. In fact, this is pretty much why Joker's plan in Injustice works.
And he's a mindless destructive zombie so there is absolutely no moral dillema here.

>>93413734
>the complete narrative of comics is structured differently than movies so trying to compare the two is disingenuous of you

then why did you start the comparison?

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>you can piss in a jar and call it granny's peach tea

http://alexanderlozada.com/iasip/?IkxleCBQaXNzZXMgaW4gYSBKYXIgYW5kIENhbGxzIEl0IEdyYW5ueSdzIFBlYWNoIFRlYSI=

>>93413921
I like how the only men capable of regularly bringing down Superman have no special abilities at all other than insanity and cash.

>>93413960
>Opera
>NBA
Is Opera any good? As someone who is weary of safety but also wants extensions.

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>>93413741
single punches from them are sending them flying miles and miles, it would take maybe 2 more punches to get that far.

and as for your questions about why he is sending Zod into random buildings, well its his VERY FIRST BATTLE EVER and its meant to illustrate that despite Superman trying his hardest, Zod is in control of the battle.


Also even in the comics, a very experience Superman constantly causes destruction.

the ones who are loose and dirty, thou hast not rubbed themselves or drank from dirty glasses. Their lips become grossly spotty, lips weeping pus as they kiss one another, grossly sexual, yet chaste, a different kind of fluid exchange, and it ends with disease.

There was an odd scene from King Lear where Edgar is asked by Gloucester to go to the cliffs of Dover, Gloucester is placed on a cliff, and renounces the Gods and falls forward, but lives. The Gods have abandoned him.

The ends of the world come down by falling of stars. The light of which died out eons ago, taking longer to reach the world's surface, they may be small rocks, big rocks, sharp or blunt. Pain comes to the future, if we as a species live so long to see it.

The poetry of nature sings to us through fruits, leaves, seas, the music of life heard through the crashing of waves, rustling of leaves, the songs of birds. The poetry stops with a slice, the killing blow to the world, the music of life grown silent.

The creation of tragedy resonates with us all, the end of things. It comes to us, without the true sense of satisfaction of things that's happened in our lives. If we live forever, will we make right?

Are we good? What is good? What is human? Have we lost the will? Are we already dead?

The old ways of time and space are found in movement, fluid movement. Shapeless, morphing, like liquids in a cosmic nova becoming something yet nothing, which indeed is something.

Everything is a coincidence, which is what we never find in the land of death. We are but who we are. We are people, yet animal, cruel, yet kind. We are all, yet we are nothing. This is the life we choose to live. We waste our time, nothing will matter, yet it will for others. The cycle goes on forever yet until it doesn't.

A naked lady walks into a bar with a three foot salami in one arm and a poodle in the other. The bartender says, "I suppose you won't be needing a drink with that". The naked lady says

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>>93413764
other people can see it
>>93413741
Why are you trying to so hard to argue nothing is there? But fine, if you must, here it is. The ocean, right next to the city. Which was re-established in BvS.

>>93413979
It's pretty good. Tends to be really quick and doesn't use up to much memory so you can do lots of other stuff while having it open, or have a ton of tabs open all at once. Also fairly safe, Chrome is riddled with malware for me but Opera is a-ok (although tbf that's probably my own fault).

>>93413835
You are right he is interrogating him. Good job.

>>93413835
>because he is interrogating him and not killing him that means Lois DIDNT get him to stop

How do people like you seriously think this way?

>>93413991
>well its his VERY FIRST BATTLE EVER

Well yeah, but he's not retarded, right? I'm not expecting Superman to be some master of hand-to-hand combat. But

>jesus, so many people are being killed
>oh no Zod is chasing me
>wait, if I fly away from this heavily populated area he'll chase me out there and I can fight him without having to worry

It's not some brilliant insight to have. When you got into your first fistfight when you were a kid, I'm sure you thought of stuff like "maybe we should move off the concrete so one of us doesn't fucking die".

Man, this movie was so shit.

>>93414056
I'm saying that Lois is not what got Batman to not kill Superman in that moment. He was about to stab him with the kryptonite spear, then Superman says "martha" and immediately Batman seems to abandon the whole stabbing idea because gee whiz, Superman has said the name of Batman's mother who has been dead for at least 40 years.

>>93414079
>wait, if I fly away from this heavily populated area he'll chase me out there and I can fight him without having to worry

He tries that in the smallville fight but gets his shit pushed it, see
>>93413897
Also, Zod wanted to kill everyone in Metropolis. He makes this clear. He says this flat out, that he is going to kill everyone there. If Superman runs away, Zod just starts killing civilians.
Think for one second before you jump to conclusions.

>>93414110
....what? You really think his interrogating means he WASNT going to kill Superman right after? I mean he didnt INSTANTLY kill Superman when given the chance so why does the interrogation suddenly mean he wont kill Superman?


I'd want to know what the super alien knows my mom's name too. Can he travel back in time? Can he read my mind? Would be good information to have, especially knowing there is a whole bunch of them trapped in a dimension they have escaped from before.

>MRW I'm black and I hear the cashier call for a "security scan in zone B". Bitch I know you talking about the aisle I'm in.

>>93413960
>NBA 2k17

Every year career mode just gets worse

>people literally call you "President of Basketball"
>your new best friend is the black guy from Chronicle who has decided to call your friendship "Orange Juice"
>that stupid fucker Denver follows you around like a retarded puppy

Only upside is that the player character doesn't sound like a black guy from 2004 anymore

>>93414153
>I mean he didnt INSTANTLY kill Superman when given the chance so why does the interrogation suddenly mean he wont kill Superman?

Because it's a badly written movie. Batman has dedicated pretty much every second of every day for 2 years towards killing this guy, and now at the last second he decides "nah, I'll take my time". I understand this is a silly movie about a man who dresses like a bat fighting a man who wears spandex and a cape, but at the same time this movie seems to take itself seriously, so it needs to make sense.

>I'd want to know what the super alien knows my mom's name too

You're joking, right? If I'm about to kill someone and he says "save Jill" I'm not going to think "oh shit, he knows my mom", I'm going to think "huh, that's a weird coincidence" and then kill him. Especially if my mom has been dead for decades.

Race doesn't matter. Humanity fights for nothing, yet fight for everything that matters to them. In the end, it won't matter for some but will impact others.

Within the skin of our bodies, we have the same things, the body works the same, for all of humanity.

The creation of creation gave us the ability to develop.

Who are the ones who fight in the dark?

What happened the Chris Baloney?

Is this the oniric British man?

Slice with the swords and the blood will run when cut.

Blood is usually red.

Red...

Red...

Such a bold color, able to convey anger, lust, relaxation. The rawest color.

Blue is the opposite.

A made color. Unknown to the world truly.

The bronze sky and the wine dark sea.

Watch and listen to the Midas of your dreams. The legs of your mind begin to run in the wind, dark and light.

The reasons to live are few yet many. One of the reasons are

>>93414198
>Batman has dedicated pretty much every second of every day for 2 years towards killing this guy, and now at the last second he decides "nah, I'll take my time".


So you really didnt watch the movie then? He decides to go against Superman and stop him, but he doesnt really decide to KILL him until the Senate explosion and the letters Lex faked. Lex even says this, about how he had to push him over the edge.


>You're joking, right? If I'm about to kill someone and he says "save Jill" I'm not going to think "oh shit, he knows my mom", I'm going to think "huh, that's a weird coincidence" and then kill him. Especially if my mom has been dead for decades.

I would be pretty freaked out if the super powered alien god, whose powers seem almost limitless, knew the exact words my dad said before he died, yes. Like did he SEE my parents die and not do anything? Did he read my mind? If he could read my mind why did he let me win?

And again, like I said, this is Batman, it would be good information to have, especially knowing there is a whole bunch of them trapped in a dimension they have escaped from before.
Its funny how you take precident in a movie for why Batman wouldnt kill Superman right away and just dissmiss it as "nah its bad writing though, not in anyway meant to show us that Batman, the man so much about symbols he makes a fucking kryptonite spear and dresses up like a big bat symbol, doesnt want to kill Superman right away.


Its like you are ignoring the movie and projecting your own headcanon to it.

>>93414302
>He decides to go against Superman and stop him

Right....what was his plan to "stop" him without killing him, exactly? Do we see a scene where he builds kryptonite handcuffs? A kryptonite cage? No, he spends all that time building a fucking spear, and you think his intention *wasn't* to kill him?

You can argue that he only wanted to "stop" him beforehand, but if I remember correctly he never says this explicitly. He talks about Superman being the enemy, and I'm not sure what line he says implies that he wants to take Superman in alive.

>I would be pretty freaked out if the super powered alien god, whose powers seem almost limitless, knew the exact words my dad said before he died, yes

"The exact words"? Come on, his dad just says "Martha". That's it. A relatively common name. Now, if his dad had said "You have to save Martha" then I would understand where you're coming from here.

>Its like you are ignoring the movie and projecting your own headcanon to it.

No, that's what you're doing.

Within the constructs of the cultures of the world, we are peaceful, barbaric, angry, happy. Emotion or lack there of will push the people to kill, to love. It is of few things that are universal besides language.

The dance of languages runs through tongues and movements.

To convey that of the righteous and the despicable are done through everything.

The eggs are laid and will be done through the peace of life and violence of dirt.

But to the earth, we are the fresh and dying. The peak yet hole.

What is this?

Candlejack has co-

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>>93414401
Seriously, >>93414302 is trying so hard to ignore the fact that if Batman was being an actual killer Batman, he would just open with the kryptonite gas and then spear Superman immediately.

>>93414302
>Its like you are ignoring the movie and projecting your own headcanon to it.


You still don't get it? they are autistic. Normal people that disliked the movie said they didnt like the lack of superman, that the editing was confusing or that the tone wasnt what they wanted. This autists are deluded, they really see superman as a foster dad that should hug them so they get mad at snyder in a pretty autistic way. They had spend 4 years hating snyder m8, they won't change. But who cares. MoS and BvS are still talked to this day and no one remembers doc strange or guardians of the galaxy 2

^
< >
v

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>>93414443
You don't even seem like you speak English as a first language and you're insulting other people for being "autistic." Bold move.

The wing of time has broke and we are all going to wither.

>>93414443
>MoS and BvS are still talked to this day and no one remembers doc strange or guardians of the galaxy 2

On 4chan. 4chan is not reality, amigo.

>>93414401
>>93414429
>Right....what was his plan to "stop" him without killing him, exactly? Do we see a scene where he builds kryptonite handcuffs? A kryptonite cage? No, he spends all that time building a fucking spear, and you think his intention *wasn't* to kill him?


Yeah, that was AFTER the senate explosion, which is also when he decides to go get the kryptonite.... did you even watch the movie?
>You can argue that he only wanted to "stop" him beforehand, but if I remember correctly he never says this explicitly. He talks about Superman being the enemy, and I'm not sure what line he says implies that he wants to take Superman in alive.


Well it could be also the fact that he hasnt killed ANYONE until after the senate explosion.


>"The exact words"? Come on, his dad just says "Martha". That's it.

Its a moment Batman was dreaming about not even a few weeks earlier. Its a very fresh wound.


>No, that's what you're doing.

Its interesting how you ignored all the parts that proved your headcanon wrong, and only addressed the parts where you could project more false headcanon.

>>93414239
>>93414426
>>93414032
>>93414479
>>93414494
>>93414468
>>93414443
>>93414429
>>93414401
>>93414302
Are we not of life and death?

What is the skin of the sky that is wiped with the creams? The electric kites glow white, the center burns orange. The biggest fire will kiss cosmos in flame.

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>>93414536

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>>93414532

>>93414637
You realize that you were just flat out wrong about most of this right? I said Batman didn't want to kill Superman until the senate explosion, and all of your evidence that he wanted to kill Superman the entire time happened AFTER the senate explosion, thus proving my point.


Its sad that you have to resort to fucking memes because you are so backed into a corner.

>>93414622
>>93414637
>>93414532
Art, is the subject. If it is subjective, can anything be art?

We can be art. Are you?

It's a thing that can get an emotion out of you,

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>>93414671

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>>93414685

>>93414688
>>93414703
>miami.jpg
Who is this?

>>93414727
I don't understand your question.

>>93414737
>okles le dokles.png
Anon stop. You do?

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>>93414532
>Yeah, that was AFTER the senate explosion, which is also when he decides to go get the kryptonite.... did you even watch the movie?

We've been arguing back and forth for at least 20 minutes and you keep asking this. It's pretty obvious that we both saw the movie and we just disagree about it.

>Its a moment Batman was dreaming about not even a few weeks earlier. Its a very fresh wound.

Of course it's a fresh wound, Batman is always thinking about it. But we're talking about one name, that's it. One name. A name by which Batman almost certainly never called his mother (he probably called her "mom"

>Its interesting how you ignored all the parts that proved your headcanon wrong, and only addressed the parts where you could project more false headcanon.

What headcanon? I'm talking purely about what the movies have shown. I have no investment in these characters, I never read their comics and my first exposure to them in movies was Man of Steel and Batman v Superman.

1. Batman sees that Superman is a threat
2. Batman gives an impassioned speech to Alfred about Superman being our enemy.
3. Batman builds weapons to kill Superman (a spear is not what you build if your plan is to take someone alive, especially when he has super-speed and will kill you the instant that spear is not literally touching him)
4. Batman seems pretty eager to kill Superman, and executes a somewhat convoluted plan (why not just make a kryptonite knife and keep it on you instead of a spear), but it works and he's about to finish it off by stabbing Superman
5. Superman says "You have to save Martha" and Batman stops

>>93414824
If you wear rubber boots, the electricity will have to exit somehow, anon. I don't have time to do this in the morning.

I love you, though.

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>>93414850
Fuck, I just spent an hour arguing with a troll, didn't I?

>>93414871
How do you know you replied to the same guy?
God, anon. Even I'm not this much of a

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>>93414882
>How do you know you replied to the same guy?

fuck

>>93414968
>fuck
Ha, well it'll sure look nice on my bathroom floor.

>>93414824
>We've been arguing back and forth for at least 20 minutes and you keep asking this. It's pretty obvious that we both saw the movie and we just disagree about it.

What?

You realize that you were just flat out wrong about most of this right? I said Batman didn't want to kill Superman until the senate explosion, and all of your evidence that he wanted to kill Superman the entire time happened AFTER the senate explosion, thus proving my point.


>Batman is always thinking about it.

Exactly, thanks again for proving my other point.


>What headcanon?

The parts where you somehow think the kryptonite spear came before the senate explosion and the part where you totally ignore Lois entirely role in it.


>3. Batman builds weapons to kill Superman (a spear is not what you build if your plan is to take someone alive, especially when he has super-speed and will kill you the instant that spear is not literally touching him)


Yes, and like I said he wasnt really set on killing him until after the senate explosion (which Lex says is what pushed him over the edge, coupled with the fake letters). And everything you said happened after the senate explosion. Thank you for again proving my point.

>>93414824
>5. Superman says "You have to save Martha" and Batman stops


But he doesnt stop anymore than him dragging Superman's body or choking him before he said Martha was "stopping"

>>93415084
Batman was on the verge of stabbing him, which would have killed him, and stops. Choking/dragging is not killing. He has a surefire method of killing Superman literally in his hand, and chooses not to use it. Why? Because this movie is retarded.

And that's ok. It's fine to like a dumb movie. I loved this movie. But it's really, really stupid.

>>93415076
No, there is no evidence that Batman intended anything other than to kill Superman from the very beginning. He talks about Superman being our enemy, about Superman having the power to kill the entire human race. Now, in case we don't understand each other, since you were talking about "headcanon". I want to make it clear that I have never read a single fucking comic book in my life. I am only talking about the movies (Nolan Batman, MoS, BvS). Maybe in your comic books Batman would never, ever kill. But the movies don't make this clear, on the contrary, they constantly show Batman brutally beating them in such a horrific fashion that they will almost certainly be dead within hours without medical attention (which Batman never calls in).

Batman is a killer. He kills criminals constantly. There is no reason to think, based on these movies, that when he talks about Superman being "our enemy" that he does not intend to kill the man. If you have to turn to comic book lore to justify a plot point in a movie, then guess what? It's a shit movie.

>>93413922
I didn't. I replied to people that were.

>>93414038
That part you circled honestly looks like clouds to me rather than mountains and sea.
That's the problem with so much grey.

>>93415279
>Choking/dragging is not killing.

You are right, and that happens before he says Martha, which shows he wasnt in a rush to kill Superman. Thanks for proving my point, yet again anon!


> on the contrary, they constantly show Batman brutally beating them in such a horrific fashion that they will almost certainly be dead within hours without medical attention (which Batman never calls in).

Again this happens AFTER the senate explosion, again proving my point that he isnt turned full killer until the senate explosion.
>No, there is no evidence that Batman intended anything other than to kill Superman from the very beginning.

Show me a scene, before the Senate explosion, that implies he wants to kill Superman. Not just stop him in some way (remember he has stopped supernatural/meta threats before).

He has made speeches to Alfred about many enemies, even in other movies, so dont try that bullshit again.

>>93415386
You were the first one to start comparing it to Byrne's....

>>93415412
>the water isnt even gray
>you are literally the only one in the thread who cant see it


must suck being blind

>>93415614
Nope. Wasn't me.
There's at least 2 anons besides me in that chain. And, I'm willing to bet if you follow it all the way to its origin point you'll get a "He killed Zod in the comics so it's okay here" like usual, because what's context?

>>93415630
The water is the same color as the sky. Which it's supposed to be, but that leads to it looking like the sky when you have a blurry CGI mess.

Not to mention that you've cropped it in such a way that overlooks the fact that they're both moving away from the water and into more city anyway, so water or sky or whatever being there is moot.

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>>93408394
>Mmmm what smells like korean BBQ?

>>93415603
>You are right, and that happens before he says Martha, which shows he wasnt in a rush to kill Superman.

Why is he not in a rush? It makes no sense whatsoever. Why build the spear in the first place if the plan is not to use it?

>Again this happens AFTER the senate explosion, again proving my point that he isnt turned full killer until the senate explosion.

No, it doesn't. We see Batman beat the shit out of people before the explosion. Unless there is a deleted scene where he performs CPR on those guys and calls an ambulance for them, he killed them.

>Not just stop him in some way (remember he has stopped supernatural/meta threats before).

What? I don't remember any part of Batman v Superman where he stops a supernatural threat prior to fighting Superman. Again, this is my point. You're relying on canon from outside of the movie to justify something that happens in the movie.

>He has made speeches to Alfred about many enemies, even in other movies

Such as? And, again, if a movie can't stand on its own, then it's not a good movie.

>>93408933
Underrated post.

>>93415651
no you misunderstand, you were the first one to compare it to Byrne's in this context


>the complete narrative of comics is structured differently than movies so trying to compare the two is disingenuous of you
narrative structure wise. Good job looking like a weasel though.

>>93415673
>tthey're both moving away from the water and into more city anyway,

They really arent, they are moving toward the water. IDK why you are arguing this so desperately when every other anon has conceded.

>>93408933
I really wonder what Superman was thinking in that scene.

>ok, there is clearly a strong smell of piss coming from that Senator's seat
>should I say anything?
>maybe she just got scared when I showed up and wet her pants, I've seen it happen before

>>93415603
Christ, I saw this movie twice, the second time over my explicit objections but my family wouldn't listen to me, and I've tried very hard to forget it, but now you're forcing me to drag up the memories.

However,

>"If there is even a ONE percent chance that he is out enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty."

He says this as he is planning on stealing Kryptonite from Luthor, to Alfred, before the Senate explosion, and the context makes it pretty clear that he intends to kill Superman, or at least "implies" it, which is after all what you're asking for. Not certainty, just implication.

Besides, he has by this point already demonstrated that he's more than willing people (RE: guy's head getting crushed by the Batmobile during the chase sequence is certainly dead, and it's all but impossible for him not to have killed other people during the sequence as well), so I don't see any particular reason to think that he wouldn't be willing to kill Superman, given his stated logic for doing so, when he's willing to kill random street thugs, who are far less of a threat to humanity as a whole.

>>93415697
>Why build the spear in the first place if the plan is not to use it?

I mean he did plan to use it, but again, this is a man who dresses up like a bat and has a big symbol on his chest and above his city. Why make a spear anyway, its a shit design--because of the symbol of it. He even says "we were hunters" in reference to his family and as an explanation for the spear. This man is all about symbols.

>No, it doesn't. We see Batman beat the shit out of people before the explosion. Unless there is a deleted scene where he performs CPR on those guys and calls an ambulance for them, he killed them.


Uh, no? Did you not pay attention to the movie? Everyone from that first raid on the slavers is alive... that is why its such a big deal when they are all killed in prison. Again, stop with your nonsensical headcanon.


>What? I don't remember any part of Batman v Superman where he stops a supernatural threat prior to fighting Superman. Again, this is my point. You're relying on canon from outside of the movie to justify something that happens in the movie.


No, im using in-universe knowledge from Suicide Squad.

>inb4 thats not in THIS movie

so what? You still dont have any proof he actually wanted to kill superman other than "Well he never said he DIDNT want to kill him."

>Such as?

Well the Nolan movies, but you are autistic about only using in-universe knowledge. Where in the universe does it say that Batman making a speech to Alfred means he wants to kill Superman? Where do you get he wants to kill him before the Senate explosion? Im still waiting for any scenes....

>>93415855
how does that sentence imply that he wants to kill Superman anymore than stop him? He is just saying that in reference to/justifying his thinking of Superman as an enemy.

>>93415855
>Besides, he has by this point already demonstrated that he's more than willing people

again that happens after the senate explosion

>why didn't he see it
>it was lead lined
>why didn't he see this weird package that was attached to a wheelchair that he couldn't see through?
>he didn't think to scan
so he was just retarded

>>93415888
Again, there is at least one certain death during the Batmobile chase scene, and it's inconceivable that there weren't more.

Oh, also, "Do you bleed? You will." Certainly the implication is there (again, this line is delivered after he's certainly killed one mook and has probably killed a half-dozen others).

>No, im using in-universe knowledge from Suicide Squad.

Suicide Squad doesn't do anything to suggest that Batman has dealt with mystical threats. He certainly didn't help with the Enchantress, and neither Croc nor Deadshot nor Harley nor Joker are mystical.

>>93408394
>"Damn. Mercy was in here too."

>>93415914
>>93415919
>again that happens after the senate explosion

The Batmobile chase scene happens before the Senate explosion, numnuts. In that scene he certainly kills at least one person and probably kills as many as a half-dozen, and these only incidentally as he's trying to get a weapon to use against Superman, the Kryptonite, not to mention these people are just mooks and thugs, not an existential threat to the human race (as he believes Superman to be).

You mean to tell me he's willing to kill people in order to get a weapon to use against Superman but is NOT willing to use that weapon against Superman prior to the Senate blowing up? That strains credulity at best.

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>>93415945
This is actually a very reasonable explanation. Superman doesn't have Batman's paranoia, when he walks into a room his first thought is not to scan the room.

>>93415888
>This man is all about symbols.

Yes, but not the point of mental retardation. He built a spear. Why would you build a spear if your plan is not to kill him. "They were hunters"....ok, so? Lob kryptonite grenades at him and then lock kryptonite handcuffs around his hands. Congrats "hunter", you caught your prey. You don't build a spear unless you intend to kill.

>No, im using in-universe knowledge from Suicide Squad.

What part of Suicide Squad involves him fighting supernatural threats? All he does is take down Harley Quinn.

>so what? You still dont have any proof he actually wanted to kill superman other than "Well he never said he DIDNT want to kill him."

He plannedthe fight with Superman in a way that anyone with half a brain would think "ok, killing is the goal". He build a spear that had a pure kryptonite point. If you are planning to take somebody alive, you do not build a spear with a point that is poisonous to a human being. That is literally an assassination that humans have used against one another in the past (look up the Russian government's umbrella incident).

>Well the Nolan movies, but you are autistic about only using in-universe knowledge. Where in the universe does it say that Batman making a speech to Alfred means he wants to kill Superman? Where do you get he wants to kill him before the Senate explosion?

The. Fucking. Spear.

>>93415999
>The Batmobile chase scene happens before the Senate explosion, numnuts.

I think it happens after. He has a point here. I think his overall argument is wrong, but if I remember this movie correctly, that scene happens after the explosion (although Batman's plan to steal the kryptonite was underway well before that explosion).

Posting a qt so people can tolerate my autism

>>93416111
*oh wait, I see what you're saying. Let me rephrase my answer.

Your question

>Where do you get he wants to kill him before the Senate explosion?

Nothing about Batman's dialogue prior to the explosion implies that his intention is anything other than killing Superman. The construction of the spear only confirms it. Batman is an insane, brutal vigilante, who has apparently been violently assaulting criminals for decades. There is no reason to think that he does not intend to kill Superman.

>>93415953
>Again, there is at least one certain death during the Batmobile chase scene, and it's inconceivable that there weren't more.


Yes, and that happened AFTER the senate explosion, what are you trying to prove?

>>93415999
>The Batmobile chase scene happens before the Senate explosion, numnuts.

No it doesnt you fucking retard.

Also its numbnuts you fucking retard, as in your nuts ad numb.

>>93416330
>>93415999
are numb*

>>93416111
>I think it happens after.

It absolutely happens before, because Superman shows up to stop Batman at the end of it, remember? But after the Senate explosion Superman goes to Tibet or something to talk to the ghost of Robin Hood.

After the Senate explosion, Batman goes after Lex's Kryptonite a second time, in the scene where Lex goes to where it was stored and finds a Batarang left behind.

>>93416360
Wait, no, hang on, I just checked the movie transcript and in fact I was wrong.

Christ this movie was poorly shot and edited. I was apparently remembering a better version where the sequence of events makes more sense. The only problem is that this version of the movie does not, in fact, exist.

Still, as >>93416111 observes, the plan to steal the Kryptonite was already well underway before the Senate explosion, and Batman clearly demonstrates a willingness to murder in order to achieve his goals anyway.

>>93416162
Nothing before the senate explosion implies his intention is to kill Superman. Show me a single scene that shows that. All he says is he wants to stop him in some form or another. He doesnt commit to killing until the senate explosion.
>>93416111


> He built a spear. Why would you build a spear if your plan is not to kill him.

I never said that wasnt his plan, but he obviously isnt in a rush to kill him. And you asked why he isnt in a rush and I said because he is all about the symbology of it. Thats why he has the spear waiting for him on the floor instead of having his "kill superman weapon" at the ready.

I dont know what to tell you, he just simply was not in a rush to kill Superman. At least part of that is because of his obsession with symbology. I personally believe its because deep down he didnt want to kill Superman and I have evidence for that, but I dont think you are interested in that. You think its because he is retarded, thats okay. Im not really interested in changing your opinion anymore.
>What part of Suicide Squad involves him fighting supernatural threats?

Killer Croc, a meta.
>He plannedthe fight with Superman in a way that anyone with half a brain would think "ok, killing is the goal". He build a spear that had a pure kryptonite point. If you are planning to take somebody alive, you do not build a spear with a point that is poisonous to a human being. That is literally an assassination that humans have used against one another in the past (look up the Russian government's umbrella incident).

Again, my argument is that he only wanted to kill, like really commit to kill, Superman AFTER the senate explosion. All of those things you mention happen AFTER the senate explosion.


Show me a single scene BEFORE the senate explosion that explicitly proves he wants to KILL Superman and not just stop him. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

>>93416434
>its the movie's fault I couldnt remember it!!!

How does your way make anymore sense? It doesnt. Also of COURSE he is going to steal the kryptonite because its his main weakness. There have been TONS of villains who have used kryptonite on Superman without the explicit intent of killing him. Like ANY time he was in a kryptonite cell or in kryptonite chains. Christ.

>>93416434
>hurr durr the movie is dumb, not me!!

you are a real credit to your people

>>93416438
Metahumans aren't supernatural - at least, not in the sense that DC uses the term. More than that, Killer Croc is jut a big, strong dude, but he's neither bigger nor stronger than theoretical human limitations. He can hold his breath for an abnormally long time and swim unusually fast, but neither of them beyond a human's ability to deal or react to.

>>93416525
actually Killer Croc has super strengthand metahuman abilities. Especially in this universe. They say so on his Skwad file, but one the official website and the one in the movie.

http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1577560/suicide-squad-viral-site-unlocks-another-villain-file-spilling-tons-of-details

>>93416438
>Nothing before the senate explosion implies his intention is to kill Superman. Show me a single scene that shows that.

Well, he's planning to obtain a substance that is poisonous to kryptonians....and he says that Superman being our enemy is "an absolute certainty"...I agree with you that we don't see physical, 100% confirmation that Batman is planning to kill before the explosion, but considering that Superman does not have "instant massive explosion-causing" powers, and Batman surely knows this from 2 years of obsessively researching Superman, I think it is safe to say that the explosion did not dramatically change Batman's plans. Lex is giving himself way, way too much credit. Batman was ready to kill Superman for a long time. Lex just presented him the tools.

>I never said that wasnt his plan, but he obviously isnt in a rush to kill him. And you asked why he isnt in a rush and I said because he is all about the symbology of it.

I say this is because of shitty writing.

>Killer Croc, a meta.

I really don't remember Batman capturing or killing Killer Croc...and regardless, there is a world of difference between stopping a very large man with crocodile skin and stopping a demigod so powerful that a literal nuclear bomb at point blank range can't kill him.

>Again, my argument is that he only wanted to kill, like really commit to kill, Superman AFTER the senate explosion.

I disagree. But, regardless of which one of us is right, doesn't this create a gaping flaw in the storyline? I say he is committed to kill from the moment he sees Superman wreck Metropolis. You say it's after the Senate explosion. Why, then, does he not kill when given the opportunity?

>Show me a single scene BEFORE the senate explosion that explicitly proves he wants to KILL Superman and not just stop him.

Starts at 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ixaEnZHtH8

"We have to destroy him"

These are not the words of a man who plans to take someone prisoner.

>>93416459
>How does your way make anymore sense?

Because on double-checking things, the scene immediately before the Batmobile chase scene where we see Superman is him talking to Lois about him being uncertain that he's even capable of helping people, and then the next time we see Clark is in Tibet (or wherever, on top of a mountain anyway) talking to the ghost of Robin Hood about whether or not Superman is capable of actually doing good.

So it would make more sense for Superman's character arc if Superman left the movie after talking to Lois and didn't come back until it was time to save Lois.

>There have been TONS of villains who have used kryptonite on Superman without the explicit intent of killing him.

I feel this only works if you ignore the context of the movie and the clear deterioration of Batman throughout it, not to mention that one of the first things we learn about Batman is that he's okay with giving criminals death sentences now.

Ultimately I don't think it matters. The point is that Batman murders a fuckton of people in this movie, and that was a stupid decision on Snyder's part.

>>93416595
> Killer Croc has super strength

He doesn't demonstrate it on screen. Impressively strong, yes, but not superhumanly so.

>>93416598
>Well, he's planning to obtain a substance that is poisonous to kryptonians....and he says that Superman being our enemy is "an absolute certainty".

Like I said here
>>93416459
Of course he is going to steal kryptonite because thats his weakness. But that doesnt INHERENTLY mean he wants to kill him.

I know you said dont use out of universe knowledge, but I am just using this as an example to make a logic point: Plenty of villains, and even comic Batman himself, procure or use kryptonite on Superman without the intent of kill him.
> Why, then, does he not kill when given the opportunity?

I think its because of his obsession with symbols and because deep down he didnt want to kill him really. It was just an excuse/projection, but I am not interested in having this conversation.


Its pretty autistic to be this hung up on why it took a guy so long to kill someone. And this is not, in anyway, a gaping hole. There are a million different explanations for why he waited but you wont be satisfied with any of them. Like how you completely ignored all my reasons for why Batman might listen to Superman after he said Martha.


>These are not the words of a man who plans to take someone prisoner.

I agree, I dont think he really had a plan past "get the kryptonite" at this point. But I dont think he has really committed to killing Superman yet. At this point his mind could still be changed.

>>93416647

>not to mention that one of the first things we learn about Batman is that he's okay with giving criminals death sentences now.


what? he brands them, but he didnt know the brand would be a death sentence, that was part of Luthor's doing .
> The point is that Batman murders a fuckton of people in this movie, and that was a stupid decision on Snyder's part.

No, because him killing is portrayed as a specifically bad thing to do, a thing that makes him not Batman, to the point where Alfred almost leaves him over it. Its also a comment on how every movie before this had Batman kill like it was no problem, but Snyder is the first to actually make it a bad thing.

>>93416823
>what? he brands them, but he didnt know the brand would be a death sentence, that was part of Luthor's doing .

Nice try, but what did Batman THINK the brand was going to do, then? Either Batman is deliberately setting them up to be killed in prison; or else Batman is an idiot.

>Its also a comment on how every movie before this had Batman kill like it was no problem

Two points.

1) The Burton and Schumacher films, at least, had the decency to be otherwise decent or at least enjoyable movies;
2) The Nolan movies make a rather big deal out of Batman killing even one person once - after killing Dent in Dark Knight, Batman disappears for years at least partially out of depression over his failure to resolve the Two-Face issue without killing Dent;
3) Snyder wasn't making that commentary at all. He explicitly said that he based his Batman off of The Dark Knight Returns where Batman "kills all the time"...despite the fact that Batman doesn't actually kill a single person in that comic and actually raises a huge point about how he never kills. Meaning he didn't do anything more than look at the pictures, and probably just a quick skim at that.

>>93416360
>because Superman shows up to stop Batman at the end of it, remember?

My favourite thing is how Superman sees Batman chasing after a bunch of criminals who are driving recklessly and shooting goddamn GATLING GUNS down the street, and he's like "I'm going to stop Batman, because his methods are dangerous, but those other guys don't look like they are up to anything. I'll let them enjoy their evening."

Like, you'd think he'd be like "Batman, you're only escalating the situation. A civilian could get hurt in this car chase. I'll go, like, lift those cars over my head and shake the bad guys out and fly them to the police department or something."

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>>93408824
You won in a landslide

>>93417078
>The Nolan movies make a rather big deal out of Batman killing even one person once - after killing Dent in Dark Knight, Batman disappears for years at least partially out of depression over his failure to resolve the Two-Face issue without killing Dent;

Yeah, the thing I like about the Nolan movies is that they establish that Batman doesn't like to kill, but it's still something he can't always avoid.

I mean, they could just write the story so that he's never written into a situation where he has to kill, so he could stick to his ideals, but sticking to your ideals isn't such a feat when you're never in a situation where there isn't another way.

In Begins, he says he doesn't want to be an executioner (killing a criminal who is already detained), but he knows that sometimes people die in battle. He lets Ra's die because he's already saved him once, only to get shit on in return, and you could argue through the doctrine of the double effect that he doesn't really kill him, he just doesn't save him.

In TDK, he wants to prove to The Joker that he won't break his ideals, so after throwing him off of a building, he catches him. But then he is forced to kill Dent, which represents him killing the person who was his one hope of Gotham having a legitimate protector and him no longer having to be the Dark Knight.

And in TDKR, he kills Talia in battle, but it wasn't a cold-blooded execution; he evaded a missile and it ended up striking Talia.

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>>93412951

Lead doesn't make stuff invisible to supes, it makes the lead *stand out* to his vision.

That there was a bulky lead container in a wheelchair, the sort of place you'd want to trim away excess weight not add more, might stand out.

>>93418087
Exactly this. Particularly given how much emphasis Batman in Nolan's movies puts on the fact that he will not kill people, it lets me suspend my disbelief during, for example, the Begins Batmobile chase. Logically someone probably should have died during that, but prior to it Batman has put so much emphasis on not killing that I can easily believe that during the Begins chase, no one dies, because Batman wouldn't recklessly kill people like that in this universe.

I don't have that with Snyder's Batman. The first thing we learn about him is that he's willing to essentially give criminals a death sentence; during the Batmobile chase scene he certainly kills at least one person and probably kills many more; and then later, during the warehouse scene, he kills I don't even know how many people - blowing them up with the Batplane's machine guns, crushing their heads against walls with crates and leaving bloody smears, shooting people's flamethrower tanks...

I'm going to approach every fight Batman is in from now on as him being a violent murderer and everyone around him (Flash, Aquaman, etc.) being bizarrely okay with that fact, which will hurt them. And if Batman tries to claim some kind of later moral high ground or say that he doesn't kill, I'm just going to call him out for the hypocrite he is.

>>93420009
>Ohh, Superman...why not??

Man, I miss old school Joker.