Female characters

Art imitates life.

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>>93400138
Reblogged

Isn't the response always the same?
As in, most writers being dudes, dudes knowing what dudes think (in theory), dudes writing dude characters, whereas dudes don't know chick characters cause chick characters are chicks.
When dude writers try to make chick characters that aren't chicks, the chick characters just become dudes in a (very often hawt) chick body.

On the other hand, more exposure, critic, interaction with chicks, and chick writers writing about chick characters and also trying to write about dude characters (sometimes it works, sometimes it's just a chick in a hawt dude body) will probably allow us in a few years to get chick characters written by dude writers that won't offend anyone anymore.

If they have flaws thats sexist
If they are perfect thats sexist
If they are too pretty thats sexist
If they are too ugly thats sexist

So to play it safe they make them as bland and inoffensive as possible

>>93400138
See >>93400234

The thing is, OP, there are real differences in the ways males and females think and act. For most men, women seem almost alien in the ways the act. It's a notion as old as time that men, when thinking of what women want or why they do what the do inevitably throw their hands in the air and sum it up with "Women! Right, guys?"

Furthermore, male writers are not, typically, profoundly skilled in dealing with anyone, socially. To them, women can be exceptionally alien. As such, usually these writers will write females as simplified representations of their understanding of how women act rather than as characters with motivations that inform their decisions. Without a solid understanding of psychology and a decent study into what makes women tick, female characters written by men will almost always be one dimentional plot devices because thats how male writers see them. Its not intentional. Its a reflection of the limits of empathy.

>>93400138
Is that the Waterwraith?

>>93400338
Strange, I am a female and I have no problem writing male characters. I understand the psychology of both sexes well.

>>93400369
Then you understand what kind of female character the average comicfag would prefer ,right?

why didn't you make a thread about black guys always being reduced to the best friend and nerd

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>>93400138
>>93400353
>PTSD kicks in.

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>>93400353
Definitely looks like it anon. You know what we must do.

>>93400369
I highly doubt that
you just copy every fucking male trope there is out there
luckily there exist a big variety of them so no one calls you out on your bullshit

>>93400369

Its a gender thing. Testosterone is good for a lot of things, but it deadens empathy and a few other things.

This isn't an insult or anything, this is actually an evolutionarily advantageous trait. If you have to defend yourself from some guy with a sharp stick, you don't want to be thinking about that dude's family and how he has hopes and dreams too.

So empathy is a bit more of a learned skill for guys than it is for girls.

>>93400381
I don't write for comicfags.
>>93400395
You got proof of that?

>>93400403
Absolutely.
>>93400382
I agree op should of made a thread about that since that's also a very real problem wow

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>>93400138
>The only time they exist is to serve as the love interest / waifu to the male protagonist or to make him look like a blithering idiot in comparison. Female characters are always devoid of any eccentricity that makes their male counterparts so interesting. For some reason writers have had it in their minds for the past 20 years to always make the main female character an example of responsibility, practicality, and intelligence.
What the fuck are you on about? Here, have a counterexample of literally EVERYTHING I just quoted, and from a popular cartoon no less.

(Of course, this is one of the most hated cartoon characters ever. There's really no pleasing the likes of you, is there?)

speaking of op making threads male writers writing men as dumb horny beasts will never make sense to me. its just offensive and very obnoxious.
>>93400421
the vast majority of female characters still aren't like that you faggot. now go stick that up your ass and kill yourself

>>93400386
>>93400389
Time for depression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYm9q-bi4w

>>93400406
yes by these shitty posts that make you look like a complete cunt

>>93400382
Black guys are more often Chad tier or gang tier characters being openly racist without any consequences.

>>93400234
>>93400338
These Anons are confirmed for having read nothing but trash in his whole life.

They're probably Anglo as well and thus suspectible to the cooties, which is why they were kept well-isolated from FEEEMALES for their own good.

>ITT
>Insect people of North America asking themselves why they can't understand those weird mammals

The problem is that ya all parasitic waps nesting in Anglos' skulls, not people.

>>93400421
>>93400424
It's fucking hilarious how nobody but this one retard has bothered to address this example.

And how nobody including said retard has bothered to address the hate for that character.

Nah, let's just keep complaining about females.

>>93400301

This is the elephant of the room that NO ONE wants to address.

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>>93400301
>sexist

>>93400718

Go to the Mary Sue. EVERY CHARACTER THEY HATE has all those traits. The only characters they seem to like are characters like Rey from Star Wars.

>>93400138
Here OP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLVwEjr_n8o

>>93400369

I would have to see your work to say if that is true or not, but it is an undeniable truth that women tend to exaggerate certain behaviors that look very unreal in a man or sometimes just print a fantasy of how they think it should be a man or A relationship with one.

Rebecca Sugar is an example of an extreme. She has two male characters that are really important. Greg and Steven

Steven was probably made thinking of making a guy sensitive and cheerful and quite spoiled, but he cry so much and for any reason that he is more a crybaby than a sensible guy.

Connie: "I'll protect you steven" no man could accept the idea that your girlfriend protects you, it's a shame.

And Greg, we all love Greg, he's supposed to be sensitive and kind, and although he does not cry, Sugar ends up making a man (quite elderly) who is unable to show anger even when he has the right to do so, this does Quite unnatural and unreal

Gems steal his baby "What are you doing?" Ask Greg with a weak voice. Greg discovers that Pearl is angry with him (Mr Greg) because she wanted to fuck his wife and he did it first (how selfish), how does Greg react? "Nothing is gonna fix this right?" That's not reasonable or logical, no man is going to say "oh sorry you wanted fuck my wife ... I shouldn't have intervened between you". Instead of being a sensitive and kind man Greg ends up being a spineless type, with no strength of mind to respond correctly to people who offend him.

>>93400369
>>93401195

However it isn't impossible to find balance when writing characters of the opposite gender, what is needed is a very long interaction with a person of the other gender, ask questions in depth. But it is difficult and not guaranteed that after spending a lot of time with a person of the opposite sex you are able to replicate a normal woman (or a normal man).

McHale is the author who at the moment I consider is the best in writing a woman in a balanced way and obviously this can be attributed to him as a married man. I wouldn't be surprised if Beatrice was inspired to some extent by his wife (after all he is Wirt and Greg is his son). But Beatrice as a character is possibly the most balanced woman in the cartoon, she has qualities as a person but has characteristics that define her as a girl.

She is very aggressive in words, but she is not strong in the slightest (most likely not as human either), she has a bossy attitude, but has manners when talking to older people, she can be quite coarse in dealing with But she can be quite emotional, she wears dresses and may need help from others, but she is not a princess. In short, she is not so arrogant to be a "strong and independent woman" (Moana and other female protagonists of disney), and possesses femininity without becoming the peach princess. She's like ... a normal person.

>>93401195
yeah greg should've just punched the bitch and steven should just fuck connie, why can't men just be men right??
*tim allen grunting noises*

>>93401245
You are a very extremist woman and I very much doubt that it exists in the balance of gender in your work. I'm not saying I should hit Perla, but a more real man would be indignant at his excuse to treat him badly, he might have said "I'm sorry, but I do not regret it so I'm sorry you feel that way." But being depressed because you choose to marry your wife just because someone else "wanted" to have a relationship with her (because Perla never had a relationship with her), that's pathetic.

As for Connie and Steven, when Connie jumps up to say "I'm going to protect you Steven" it's like the cliche in which a man says "I'm going to protect you" and you women hate that cliche right? But in Steven's case it's worse, because a man simply is not allowed to take care of his girl, society will never accept such an idea because it is supposed that a man's duty is to take care of his girl, fathers ask his future Gods that take care of their daughters, is normal. So you could say that Connie makes Steven look bad in the eyes of any male audience.

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Wouldn't it be easier and far better to just write up the character's personalities and traits and THEN decide on that character's gender? I mean yes, men and women both think and act differently as well as respond differently to similar situations but the reality is we don't all just fall on one side of the spectrum.

You have the extremes, men and women who thoughts, personalities and actions match society's traditional expectations of their gender.

You have the interminglers which are most of us. People who think and perform actions that are expected on both sides of the spectrum.

And then you have oddballs. Men who think and act a lot like a woman would traditionally act (in a very flamboyant way) and women who think and act much like a man is expected to act.

So with all that I said, if someone's having difficulties writing a make or female character why not just write up character's personality without thinking what a traditional man or woman would act and then slap the gender on after? After all you shouldn't be asking yourself what a man/woman would do but rather what would the character given their traits do?

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>>93400138
You clearly haven't watched enough anime.

Pic related saved the anime she's in upon her appearance.

>>93400740
>Mary sue
>They like Rey
How ironical

>>93401626
>>93401245

Sorry I made many mistakes when I wrote the last comment, this is the corrected version.

You are a very extremist woman and I very much doubt that it exists in the balance of gender in your work. I'm not saying he should hit Perla, but a more real man would be indignant at her excuse to treat him badly, he might have said "I'm sorry, but I do not regret it so I'm sorry you feel that way." But being depressed because you choose to marry your wife just because someone else "wanted" to have a relationship with her (because Perla never had a relationship with her), that's pathetic.

As for Connie and Steven, when Connie jumps up to say "I'm going to protect you Steven" it's like the cliche in which a man says "I'm going to protect you" and you women hate that cliche right? But in Steven's case it's worse, because a man simply is not allowed to be taken care of by his girl, society will never accept such an idea because it is supposed that a man's duty is to take care of his girl, fathers ask his future Sons-in law that take care of their daughters, is normal. So you could say that Connie makes Steven look bad in the eyes of any male audience.

>>93401801
you type like you're from a third world country or autistic. Maybe both.

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>>93400382
I'm okay with that because it gave us Gus

It's mostly just a sign of not being a good writer. If you can't think of your characters as real with thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams, likes, dislikes, quirks, and all the other characterization that goes into making them, then you just aren't very good at writing. You don't even have to use everything you come up with, but the more real you can make them the more consistent and believable they will be.

Except a lot of the time it seems male writers don't go through that process with female characters. There could be lots of reasons why: Don't understand women, have trouble socializing, problems with examining the environment around them, being lazy. It doesn't matter what the excuse is, if you can't make a believable woman character then you're a bad writer.
Women are just people, they should be thought of as people first and female second. Seems like a lot of writers didn't get that message.
By the way obviously these are only my opinions, I'm no authority on writing or anything.

>>93400498
Isn't that the song they hum when not following him?

>>93400382
Doesn't make any sense, what with 99% of all comics being drawn and written by nonwhite people.

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>>93400138
Dunno, as amateur comic artist my female characters are way better developed than my male characters. I sometimes feel bad because I recieve Tumblr asks in my blog asking for a hug and kiss from my characters and I always respond with a drawing of the character feeling disgust or awkard towards the situation.

It all boils down as to how the author sees women, I see women rather complex but understandable and to be a major force power to both move and manipulate things sometimes aware of the perks sometimes not, just like any other person.

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>>93400138
>Anyway it would be nice to see a female character be written in the same vein as someone like Ren for instance.
I don't disagree with that.

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>>93401195
>Connie: "I'll protect you steven" no man could accept the idea that your girlfriend protects you, it's a shame.

Did you not see the rest of that episode? Wasn't that the whole point, that Steven wasn't OK with Connie defending him rather than them fighting side by side?

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>>93400382
>tfw black and nerd
>tfw i am the black nerd best friend

>>93400740
>this fucking meme again

Jyn is infinitely more of a "stock female protagonist" than Rey but somehow she never gets this shit.

>>93401645
This is literally how Alien was made.

>>93401801
I think you're sort of missing the point of the show.

>>93400138
Alright, hole up, let me do some mansplaining to you, OP. I didn't notice this until I started doing my own comics, but a significant portion of the readers don't want female characters with personality.

You see personality means having an ego, in the Freudian sense, not narcissistic sense. Having an ego leads to conflict. And any time a woman has a conflict, a good portion of the audience instantly calls here a stupid horrible bitch. What do I mean by conflict? I mean anything less than being a perfect little angel. I'm talking about a character who might stand up for herself. Or made a sarcastic comment. Or get justifiably angry. Or being a smartass from time to time. Or not liking a male character for whatever reason. Or not wanting to have sex with a male character. Or showing better judgement than male characters. Or making a snide remark. Or doing any number of things that is endearing with male characters. If a female character does any of these things then instantly it's "god I hate this stupid bitch." So if female characters are just devoid of personality, or waifu fapbait who never do anything but get fucked, then those people are happy.

Now of course not everybody does this. I'd like to thing they're a minority. I'd think that many of us agree that anybody who actually really does do this is an obnoxious autistic fuck. Then again, the comic/cartoon community is filled with obnoxious autistic fucks, and /co/ is no exception.

>>93400148
First post best post.

>>93402282
>Let me do some mansplaining
Mansplaining is not a thing and it will never be

>>93400138
try to play more video games instead of the Gamestop top 10

>>93400403
>This isn't an insult
Why should it be? Empathy is fucking useless.

>>93402320
As a male man-person with male genitals, lemme explain why you're wrong.

>>93402282
>caring about what your audience thinks about your work

I constanza.jpg

>>93400138
I JUST HAD TO OPEN MY MOUTH

>>93402450
>following e-celebs in current year

You must be 18 or older to post on this site.

Oh, female characters do have eccenticities, it's just those eccenticities are fucking obnoxious and would make a male character look like a complete retard if he had them.
My problem with female characters is that they just lack charisma that make male characters so endearing. There's hardly a single female character anywhere near as charming as Ostap Bender or even David Xanatos.

>>93400138
It's men's fault.
Disregard any other reason, just find a way to blame men. That's what people want you to do.

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>who cares if she's bland as long as she's attractive
>jackiefags believe this

>>93400138
Steven Universe averts this problem. I mean there's the technicality of the gems "not really" being women but, they're women. Pearl is one of the most layered and complex characters I've seen in any cartoon.

The main problem comes from "woman" itself being considered a character trait.
Due to how human reproduction works women have inherent value and aren't expected to prove themselves as much as men are. Hence the standards for women are much lower.

>>93401891
Yes. Bruton Gaster is best boy

>>93402450
>>93402467
>That was 6 years ago

Women are inherently boring things.

>>93402346

>empathy is useless
It essentially acts as an adhesive which keeps civilized society from sinking into unfettered, egotism driven anarchy tho

>>93400421
Mabel is a shit

>>93402493
So do wendyfags

>>93400403
>deadens empathy
Except that's wrong you fucking retard
Even if we are talking purely about stereotypical masculinity empathy is one of the qualities heavily associated with it since without it things like hunting would be borderline impossible.
You're probably confusing empathy with sympathy.

>>93401195
>No man could accept the idea that your girlfriend protects you, it's a shame.
That isn't because of any sort of negative opinion of women though, it's because men are valued by society only by their capacity to provide for women and children and if a man cannot do that or if a woman can do that better then them then that man is viewed as worthless.

>>93403045
Wendy and jackie are literally the same character. Ones just woodsy and the other is beachy

>>93402876
Nah, that's human stupidity that makes people easily exploitable for those who are actually intelligent. Which is a good thing.

>>93402134
Obviously you should feel bad about this because it offends people that you will never meet

>>93402368
As a woman...

>>93402549
>Pearl is one of the most layered and complex characters I've seen in any cartoon.
Her entire character can be summed up as "neurotic and has an obsession with rose quartz"

>>93403015
Do you have an actual argument?
>>93403284
Wendy has a million times more character to her.

>>93403709
>Do you have an actual argument?

Mabel is in many ways a terribly written character and if she's the best counter-argument you can come up with to the OP, then that's saying something

>Wendy has a million times more character than her

That's a laugh

>>93400421
Well, Mabel is a special kind of shitshow.
Her problem is not lack of traits, yes. And it's not hyper competence or tits. Because she is not just bland, she is actually not even an autonomous character, but a living projection space for Dipper that only serves to guilt him out of plans and ambitions by embodying a childishness he has almost left behind already. She does little of consequence, learns nothing and hardly even has such a thing as a motivation to do anything.
She is proof the writer not only doesn't understand women but doesn’t even manage to think of them as people in their own right.

>>93402155
She didn't pull of unbelievable shit and ended up dead. What type of strong female character gets killed in their own movie?

>>93400138
Because flaws are perceived as sexism these days.

>>93403838
Mabel is such a well-written character that she is practically a template for how to write "quirky" female characters well in general.
>That's a laugh
No, it's not. Wendy actually HAS a character, Jackie has random character traits thrown in.

>>93403871
>She does little of consequence
It is impossible to have watched the show and say this. Meaning you haven't actually seen it.

>>93403897
>Mabel is such a well-written character that she is practically a template for how to write "quirky" female characters well in general.

Are you that same shill who made the GF thread a few days ago?

>>93403890

More like the number of flaws a woman needs to have to not be a Mary Sue are absurdly high by comparison to men.

Or even having more then one skill, or being an expert in anything, or having any meaningful impact on the plot, or...

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>>93403910
Need I remind you?

>>93403897
God I hope Mabel doesn't become a template

>>93403897
>Mabel is such a well-written character that she is practically a template for how to write "quirky" female characters well in general.
The words cannot describe how glad I am that you're a minority.

>>93403290
Le upboated good sir! :)

>>93403935
Never mind, I misread "Does little of consequence" as "faces no consequences for her actions"

>>93401195
Speak for yourself.
I'm open to a cute ninja gf sworn to protect me.
Although, then I would always look single until women talking to me suddenly get attacked from behind.

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I'm probably opening a can of worms right now, but I wish Western cartoons had more characters like her.

>>93403996
But girls are too weak to protect anyone.

>>93403897
>this is what mabelfag actually believe

>>93403996
Go watch Witch Craft Works or something, sounds like something up your alley and mine

>>93403918
Not at all, what ever made you think that!?

Duh.

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>>93400138
>For some reason writers have had it in their minds for the past 20 years to always make the main female character an example of responsibility, practicality, and intelligence.
I don't think that it's inherently bad outside of oversaturation of that kind of a character.
Take Lydia for example. She's competent and intelligent compared to Beetlejuice and most of the cast for that matter but she never feels like a "gurl powah" character to and has enough personality and quirks to feel like an actual character even if for an episodic kids show standards.
The problem is that plenty of writers are hacks and botch the execution ending up with wooden perfect characters.

One good example of strong and complex female characters is Worm by Wildbow. Superhero written Web serial free online, just search for Worm Parahumans.

Anyway the male author actually made the females so interesting, including the protagonist that despite being canon straight there is way more shipping in the famdom between females. Because people don't just ship faceless bodies. They ship characters.

The Protagonist is also great. Not conventional pretty, extremely focused, willing to make tough decisions to achieve goals, retreats into her she'll both emotionally and intellectually, extreme distrust for authority, extremely self focused and has great difficulty at seeing other people's POV. He also crafted it so on a surface level you just accept Her narrative at face value. However if you examine it, you can see when she is being extraordinary unreasonable and doesn't realise it.

>>93400138
There's a sense that female characters are lacking in personality because essentially they don't need personality to get the job done.

The standards are different. There's a saying, "men act, women are". The value of a woman, even a fictional one, is presumed as a given, so she doesn't have to work as hard to gain the audience's sympathy or respect as her male counterpart.

On the one hand this is why you have phenomenoms deemed problematic like women being defined relationally (Character's mom/girlfriend) and Women in Refrigerators (no point in developing her because people will still care if she dies simply because she's female). But the other side of the equation is why the concept Red Shirts is by and large exclusively male, and why you almost never see a single woman in the army of bad guys that the hero mows through. Men become expendable and aren't memorable unless they do something to earn a promotion out of that obscurity.

There's some roots in biology to this whole thing and culture just backs it up.

So a writer, if not actively aware of all this then at least subconsciously, is going to think "Why bother putting that effort in when it can be used elsewhere?"
Especially when, if he (or she, take one look at Stephanie Meyer's work and tell me that she's not guilty of bland women as well, this isn't a problem we can only pin on male writers) realizes that if they fuck up even a little they're gonna get a storm of bad PR.

>>93404308
>Because people don't just ship faceless bodies. They ship characters.
Except in the instances when they use a faceless body as a medium to project themselves onto, which I'd argue happens more frequently.

>>93404177
>past 20 years
???

>>93404342
Only loser neckbeards do that, though.

>>93404353
I have some time perception issues.
Few weeks ago I felt like Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake was made just a few years back.

>>93404342
Well people that read 1.7 million words don't as much. But self insert stuff isn't really shipping. It is more mental masturbation.

Like people ship Zuko with people because they like his character of a bad boy with hidden emotional depths. They don't ship a random background character with no personality. Like the Earth kingdom girl wasn't just big tits. She was outgoing and romantic.

>>93404366
The idea that this is something only one gender is guilty of is laughable.
>>93404446
>Well people that read 1.7 million words don't as much.
How many words is the average Twilight novel?
Hell how many YA novels have a love triangle where the girl is the blandest of the three?

>>93401801
>society will never accept such an idea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazonian_Guard

Granted they were less his girlfriend and more his private harem of molestable eye candy, and anyone who could have said anything against it would have been crushed underneath his tyrannical boot. But still, it shows that it's not completely unbelievable that a man would allow himself to be protected by women.

He ended up getting slowly beaten to death by a furious mob and having his naked, lifeless body paraded around to humiliate him, so I guess having women as his bodyguard didn't work out so well for him in the end.

>>93404501
I'm not really sure. I don't read a lot of YA. But the female having little to no personality is fine. Because she is the self insert. So the reader imagines themselves in them more. While the male characters who we aren't in the heads of, do have more personality. Of which people latch on to ship with themself, the girl character.

Of course not all YA characters are personality free. Hunger games isn't that great, but the girl protagonist did have a personality. Which was counterbalanced by one of th males being a bit blander then normal.

Anyway popular ships are still based on character and looks. Hell sometimes just personality. Plently of fanfic writers do stories about ugly Kylo and Snape. If you just showed someone a photo of two random people, they wouldn't shop them. But watch a movie or read a book following them and boom Shipping.

>>93401195
>no man could accept the idea that your girlfriend protects you, it's a shame.
I wouldn't say that. It's just that the kind of guy like that would be less like Steven and more like Robert Crumb.

>>93400421
And literally in the same show exists Wendy, the epitome of everything OP is talking about.

>>93402099
I think you misunderstood that episode. Steven was okay with Connie learning how to fight, he was not okay with her throwing her life and self value away.

>>93403897
>No, it's not. Wendy actually HAS a character, Jackie has random character traits thrown in.
Except how are they random?
Also there's still 2 seasons left

>>93401891
>>93402666
Fucking this

>>93404009
Anime has better female characters than cartoons do, both in terms of waifus and characters with actual depth.

>>93402155
>>93403876
First off i dont know a single person irl who saw rogue 1.

Secondly I accept Rey because she's Darth Revan copy pasted into a new star wars story. It's fucking lazy writing, but it's feasible.

As for Jyn, i didn't see the movie, because i didn't care for plucky chaotic good rebels in space.

>>93404721
>But the female having little to no personality is fine. Because she is the self insert.
That's my argument though. That shipping isn't a metric of personality because people can just ship to self insert. This applies to both genders (although I guess maybe I'm more aware of it when it's the female character).

Aesthetics also matter too, but ultimately I'm saying you can't really use dumb fan shit like shipping as proof a character's got any nuance to them. Fans are gonna project their own biases onto characters. Look at how much of the Harry Potter fandom outright despises Ron. Look at the complete and total meltdown NaruSaku shippers had when Naruto ended.

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>>93405563
Upboated M'GentLEsir, *tips narwhal*

>>93405563
>GF shill AND this faggot are in this thread
Great. If I had a bomb that could kill everyone who posted in this thread including myself, I'd ALLAHU AKBAR with no remorse.

>>93403876
Rey is a little too strong for her first movie but honestly that's 90% JJ's cockteasing cinematic universe bullshit at play. Outside of Jedi mind trick everything Rey does is feasable considering what we know about her background.

More importantly though, we actually see Rey acting retarded from time to time with her "muh family" talk. She actually can serve as the butt of one or two jokes in the movie, while every scene Jyn's on screen she has to act like a fucking budget Katniss Everdeen knockoff.

>>93403838
I'd argue that Mabel isn't a flat character though. She's happy and also a cunt.

Mabel is a bad character, but she isn't a bad female character in the usual "no personality" sense, she's bad in the "does all this bullshit that the story never agknowledges".

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>>93403897
Star's a far better written quirky girl character than Mabel

>>93405709
I didn't say that Mabel was flat, just very badly written

>>93405728
>Star
>charm
>likability
The whole "lolsoquirky" fad needs to die as soon as possible.
The only time I have ever seen it done in an enjoyable way is Root from Person of Interest.

>>93404009
I don't think this is an east vs west thing since she's pretty much the only character like that you'll find in anime.

>>93405745
Not even that. Being a piece of shit isn't bad character writing, in fact I'd go so far as to give Hirsh props for having the balls to subvert the trope of the "adorable quirky grl" by making her the single reason why the town gets destroyed by Bill. The story gives her flaws, then agknowledges those flaws by creating consequences for her actions.

The problem with Mabel has nothing to do with Mabel herself and everything to do with the lack of followthrough in Gravity Falls as a whole. We get Mabel, learn her flaws, then... nothing happens. She gets away with everything, Dipper sucks up like he always does, and the audience is left with the sense that either Hirsh has really fucked up morals or Hirsh accidentally forgot to write like 12 or so episodes between "Mabel is actually a bitch" and "Mabel and Dipper are friends again".

>>93405860
And that's too bad.
Then again, genuinely clever characters, not just male ones, are rare in general.

>>93405936
*not just female ones
I think I need to go to sleep.

>>93400138
Because women are beast that have no souls and simply chameleon social behavior to impress Chad Thundercock.

>>93400338
Writing women is easy.

Just make a character who reasons with feelings and has absolutely no consience at all.

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>>93403897

>Mabel is such a well-written character that she is practically a template for how to write "quirky" female characters well in general

i didn't even know it was possible to have taste this shit

a character who acts quirky and fun until she can't get what she wants, so she guilt trips people into giving her what she wants anyway is "well written"

a character who easily replaced her own brother with a version she liked better is "well written"

a character who does everything wrong but still won't get any punishment or criticism for it because everyone around her (mabelfags included) genuinely believe she can never be in the wrong, is "well written"

a character that gets less development throughout the entire show than a bunch of side characters is "well written"

do you even hear yourself anon?

>>93406015
Only virgin faggots get mad at Mabel because they barely have any interaction with women, women are selfish uncaring cunts who are stuck in their own world Mabel is normal female behavior you pathetic men.

>>93406065
Go jerk off to Turd Flinging Monkey's videos or something instead of shitting up every thread that mentions female characters.
For fucks' sake, you've been doing this for years.

>>93406123
You must be confused.

>>93406015
You might have had a point if even ONE of those things were true. Seeing as none of them are, you're just a fucking faggot.

>>93405728
Mabel is far more likeable than Star. Fuck it, Mabel is far more of a CHARACTER than Star.
>>93405802
>The whole "lolsoquirky" fad needs to die as soon as possible.
This guy gets it.

>>93406162
Are you >>93405563?
Because if "yes" I'm not confused. I know that writing style.

>>93406235
Fuck off, Mabel defense force.
They're both unlikable and shitty characters.

>>93405055
Anime has better everything than cartoons do.

It's besides the point on /co/, you have /a/ for that.

>>93406273
Anime, for the most part, is boring garbage.

>>93406298
You're confused, that's cartoons. Anime is where real animation is. But again, that's for /a/ not here.

>>93406177
The replacing her own brother one was objectively true

FUCKING WATER WRAITH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

>>93406369
No. I'll leave it to you to figure out why.

Hint: there are multiple reasons.

>>93406235
>Mabel is far more likeable than Star. Fuck it, Mabel is far more of a CHARACTER than Star.

Elaborate

>>93406383

I'm not seeing any reasons why it wouldn't be true

>>93403075

No, I mean empathy.

You can have teamwork without empathy. You dont have to like or understand someone to work alongside them, especially if ut is to an obvious mutual benefit.

Interestingly, the testosterone reduced empathy has a cascade effect of making men more prone to taking risks. Neurologically, your brain thinks of future-you as if it were a different person entirely. After all, you have never met future you.
So when judging risks, your brain doesnt really equate consequences that will happen as applying to 'you'. Not really.

People with higher empathy take fewer risks on average because they care more about the imaginary person that their brain sorts future-them as. The reverse is true as well.

>>93406434
Then why do sociopaths who are actually smart pick less risky paths in life?

>>93406410
Okay dumbfuck, here you go:
1. The entire bubble was created by Bill, including EVERYTHING in it. Remember the line about how "this place knows what you want even before you do"?
2. The bubble CLEARLY has a hypnotic effect. Remember "this is my most insidious plot that would take an incredible mind to break out of" from Bill (or whatever the exact line was)? Remember how Mabel suddenly changed her opinion on the stuff inside the bubble as soon as Dipper won the court case?

It's clear as fuck that Mabel was influenced by the bubble and wasn't herself, and more importantly it was Bill who made Dippy Fresh - Mabel did not consciously want it.

>>93406660
>The bubble CLEARLY has a hypnotic effect.

This shit again?

>>93406517
Most sociopaths aren't actually smart. Most are of sub average intelligence.

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Most writers do not have creativity or interest in writing female characters without being an off-joke but audience and higher ups demand they do it, ending in mary sues; it has come to the point a writer will write a female by impulse because he grew up watching others doing so even if shes shit. Same as gay and trans representation in fiction nowadays.
Is the reverse bad? I don't think so; jojo is mostly men and women like it too.

>>93406387
Star at the beginning of her show was completely insufferable, Mabel wasn't. But more importantly, Star now regularly gets sad and so on but it's because the plot railroads her into it. She also had her quirks from the first season dropped (like the boy craziness) which really hurt her character. Mabel was allowed to develop much more naturally, and generally feels like an actual character with depth as opposed to a cobbled-together list of tropes.

>>93406693
Do you have any actual arguments against it? Because I've never seen a single one, just the usual generic Mabel hate when this is brought up.

>>93406749
>reading comprehension: zero
Faggot, I aked you about what makes people who mostly avoid messing with the law and the worst thing they do is not paying the taxes, beating their wives and being greedy car salesmen and can be considered smart compared to retards who end up in jail, not something everyone who spend a minute on wikipedia would know.

>>93406751
Adding here: i mean LORE writers, the people who do settings and monsters and shit. Writers that do people doing mundane things can write everyone alright at the cost no surrealism.

>>93406794
>Mabel wasn't
Just stop, you delusional waifufag.

>>93406749
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2118547-real-life-psychopaths-actually-have-below-average-intelligence/

>>93406794
How is it possible to have such shit taste and be so wrong about everything.

Star is going through a thing called a character arc. While every potenial character arc Mabel was going to go through gets aborted halfway though. She should learn to be more responsible and not heap shit on Dipper. But she doesn't.

>>93406813
Mabel acted in-character while in the bubble and didn't really seem to be under any sort of spell. Plus, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to actually give her everything she wants if she's just going to be under hypnosis anyway. Also, her being under hypnosis would make the entire episode even less interested than it already is.

In addition, Mabel specifically mentions that she made (or prepared, or whatever) Dippy Fresh.

Since we're having this kind of thread.
Why do female protagonists always (outside of horror movies and something like The Silence of the Lambs) have shitty villains?
Male characters have plenty of memorable, menacing and charismatic antagonists.
Women tend to have pathetic and laughable, forgettable or stupid villains.

>>93406968
Any examples? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious to which ones you're referring to in particular.

>>93404009
That's just a fairy pretending to be a human girl, though.
The only human in the entire universe there is her assistant.

>>93406844
>Star is going through a thing called a character arc.
There are character arcs, and then there's "the plot shits all over this character because she used to be even more unlikeable so now we the writers of the show will make her a Butt Monkey." Learn the difference, anon.

(BTW, the exact same shit happened to Korra, but ironically in some ways it was handled BETTER there.)

>>93406517

Because you are wrong.

Symptoms of textbook sociopathy include a fondness for risk taking and a prefispodition towards opportunistic and impulsive actions.

>>93406986
Just off the top of my head
Kylo Ren, Kilgrave (Yes, I don't like him. Kingpin was a better manchild villain anyway), any villain on Buffy, any villain in any female-led spy movie classifies as bland and forgettable (though that's true for Bondiana too), Wonder Woman movie villains, most Buffy villains.
Meanwhile, men have the likes of Joker (I know /co/ doesn't like him generally, but some of his versions are genuinely well-made), aforementioned Kingpin, Darth Vader, etc.

>>93407155
Well, in terms of recent /co/, Toffee seems to be shaping up to be a pretty good villain

>>93407184
I've seen some hype for him and want to see him in action because I like Michael C. Hall, but Star vs. seems like the kind of a show that I don't find appealing.

>>93403402
Eh, you can dismiss anything if you generalize it enough.
>neurotic
Her OCD is mostly for laughs, but her neurosis leads her her projecting her expectations into Connie, and trying to put Steven's life in danger.
>obsessed with rose
This plays out with being obsessed with Steven, breaking down when her misconceptions are challenged, harboring bitter resentment towards Greg, manipulating Garnet to feel less empty, and breaking out of her comfort zone to go to a party (and try to get laid by !notRose).
>not involved with neurosis or Rose
She's never realized that blaming homeworld hurt Amethyst, and just assumed they understood each other about the whole matter.

>>93400138
Because making a good character includes giving them flaws but you can't say females have flaws because then you're putting them down.

>>93400718
Read America Chavez, anon

>>93406358
They're both shit for retards.

>>93404064
I watch LWA. That's right up my alley. And also how all the quirky girls should be done.
Being quirky and shit at magic is not only a cute trait or obstacle to overcome for Akko, but shapes her motivation, ties into her relationship to Diana and Ursula and is a necessary part of a later plot point as well as Chariot's motivation during her encounter with Croix. Plus making the viewer ask: "Why isn't Diana our protagonist?", for the first half of the season builds up to a giant parallel between Chariot/Croix and Akko/Diana.
That's a lot of meaning tied into "quirkyness". She is not just quirky and ditsy, she is untrained, lacking in talent and motivated by a naive obsession over an idol that slowly turns desperate. And most importantly she doesn’t just get away with her shit. She gets talked down to, sneered at, punished, barely tolerated, kicked out and actually becomes the object of a literal witch hunt.
And what she gets away with is owed to the general tone, given that Constanze apparently requisitioned an entire hangar and keeps stealing mechanical components for her robotics experiments, plus Suzy is breaking all the hygiene regulations and drug laws. Then again, an apparition and a gold fish are holding lectures and nobody seems to mind...

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>>93410032
I meant it as a response to "cute girl protects a guy" part, anon.

>>93400369
Strange, i seem to recal having said that one hase to have a prety solid understanding of psychology to write the opposite sex.

If your reading comprehension is this poor it may explain why none of us know your work...

I swear the majority of this thread has never interacted with the opposite sex for more than 30 minutes.
You'll find that men and women are exactly the fucking same.

>>93411099
Nah, not really. Women are a lot more vicious and mean, especially towards their own kind.

>>93411099
They're both useless dullards, I agree.

>>93410313
Sorry, just had to do something with my burning hatred for Mabel.

>>93406751
I mean how many situations do you have where you just forget to write good male characters? There's harem anime, moeshit, chick flicks, and....

>>93411171
Hermaphrodite master race.

Chads and Ashleys should not serve as the default human for either sex because they're both fucking awful and driven by nothing more than the latest trends and general societal expectations.

>>93406794
>She also had her quirks from the first season dropped (like the boy craziness)

You mean that thing that happened in one episode when she was a bug? Or do you mean the crush on Oskar that transferred into blowing up signs because Marco's kissing Jackie.

>>93400338

Yeah, there are differences between men and women, but some writers write women like they were from another planet. It's not /co/, but one of the worst offenders I've seen was Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Every last female character in that series was written like she belonged to some sort of hyper-intelligent alien species. I mean, I think it's telling that I'm a woman and I thought the male characters were much more relatable to me, with the thoughts and emotions of normal people, while the female characters had the thoughts and emotions of some strange "other."

Robert Jordan was married too, and his wife was his editor, so I'm not sure what his excuse is. Maybe his wife really was like that, and he just extrapolated?

>>93407583
She is also fighting a battle with her own nature as a Pearl because she does enjoy independence and living for herself, but craves belonging and praise. She needs to be better, needs to stand above the crowd and be envied. That's why she's always prim and pretty, tries to be graceful, why her act as a waiter was so perfect. That's what she's made to be.
We see this when Pearl bathes in her role as a teacher to Connie and Amethyst, when she is fishing for compliments on Connie's first mission. She really needs someone to validate her. Either by accepting her tutelage or by patting her head. Without Rose around to serve, Pearl has gotten really needy.

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>>93411309
Holy shit anon have you EVER had sex? Have you ever held hands with a girl before? Are you even old enough to have sex with someone who isn't still in high school?!

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>>93411284
>Ashleys
What did you just say?

>>93410032
You've touched on something vitally important, namely that being allowed to eat shit goes a LONG way in making a female character good.

Unfortunately that's still a comparative rarity.

>>93411099
>You'll find that men and women are exactly the fucking same.
They're really not.

>>93411426
Try reading some Rothfuss.
Reading Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear I learned that this man not only has no idea how women work, he also doesn’t know how men or societies work or how to stay on course withhis writing.
He managed to write a showboating braggard who leaves out the most impressive feats of his tale, an inexplicably shy prostitute and a society that makes its money as mercenaries across the world but somehow hasn't figured out how babies are made or how to make the swords they use ALL THE TIME. And then it's named King Killer Chronicles, but it's all about a poor gypsy kid bumbling his way through university in an escalating prank war that ends with him burning the other guy's room down. It's supposed to be a trilogy, but by the second book's end, there isn't even that king yet that's supposed to be killed.

>>93411337
The first one, the second one doesn't even count.

>>93411702
They really are almost entirely, with the major difference being that women get treated far better on average.

>>93411702
They really are.
The only major differences are in regards to how they express agression and romantic shit/sex.

>>93411792
>>93411778
So men and women are the same except their bodies are clearly different and their social interactions are resolved differently.
But they both eat and sleep and enjoy sex, so it's totally the same.

>>93411702
They are.

I feel like this thread is making sweeping generalisations about both sexes without taking into account individual personality and experiences.

>>93411702
Both are stupid, annoying and only good when you need something from them.

>>93411940
Stupid dog.

>>93411962
But on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog!

>>93411962
Go away, Eustace. I'm tired of your shit.

>>93411996
Muriel should have said that to him years ago.

>>93400148
Men can't create women and birth them thru their dick hole

>>93402134
Oh FUCK OFF Stanley, you let that shit happen to you. You could have been a hard ass nigga, but no, you gotta be dropping those historical memes on GoodGoybook.

>>93400138
i don't know

seeing this though makes my OC seem like a ray of light compared to what OPs saying

how hard is it to make a female character with flaws and responsibilities?

>>93412024
Yeah, not my proudest fap, but there it is.

>>93412046
>seeing this though makes my OC seem like a ray of light compared to what OPs saying
What's your OC

>>93412024
In the future, there won't be a need for that (except for those who have those weird fetishes), once artificial wombs will have been made.
Then mankind will finally create the ultimate human being that will succeed homo sapiens sapiens.

The eternal immortal futa-loli.

>>93406434
Stop making shit up and stating it like your ean expert on the subject, you dumb liar.

>>93411909
Yes, that's very much correct. But you sound sarcastic for some reason, anon.

>>93400138
Writer puts a single woman on the cast, realises they are the only lady for female readers to attach to, and goes "shit, better remove all negative traits from them so I don't offend anyone."

The fewer central women in the work, them more likely it is that they will be portrayed like this. It's the same with any "token X" character. If there's only one person representing an entire group, there's suddenly pressure to show them in the best possible light.

You know, instead of adding another woman and giving both of them some of the bad and good traits.

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>>93400498

>>93412299
Alternatively, they create someone to be a love interest, but because they don't want anyone to get mad about their main character's tastes (or because of personal wish fulfillment) they create some perfect goddess for him to fall for.

The fewer female characters there are, the higher likelihood one will be the love interest.

>>93412182
Because when someone says that men and women are different based on the obvious dimorphism of the species, of course they still acknowledge that they are both humans and thus share common traits. They are naturally on many levels extremely similar, but not the same thing. Their social hierarchies and conflict resolution work differently, they react differently to the same stimulus and elicit different reactions from a given subject. Naturally talking averages here. Variation is vast for individuals, but for even small random groups averages quickly show.

>>93412126
a mom who lives with an adopted child and teaches 4th graders history. has huge boobs, i like them and its been part of her core design for a good while. even spent some time figuring how she gets about with huge breasts in a real world sense (grabbing out of reach things, momentum when moving and even smaller things like how she sits)

has tons of money coming from a rich family, but lives like a normal person, uses the money to enhance her immediate life and her work life for the funner. IE, uses money to buy props and outfits because she likes to act out history and make it fun for her students rather than read from a lesson plan.

has a massive degree of strength and durability, but can't do much else with it, IE no running fast or jumping high, can just punch really hard and take hits like a champ. during her college years, she wanted to be a part time hero, but dropped it due to not being able to respond to crimes quick enough. she learned that even though she has great power, she has rather strict limits and pretty much uses those powers within reason, like to stop something that is right nearby. durability is also like stopping force outright, like stopping something from going 100 mph instantly when it hits her, so bullets don't bounce off, they just hit and then drop to the ground.

she lets people know what is on her mind, stands up for others, but can be wrong on things and still be thickheaded to push her wrong ideas forward. she genuinely loves her adopted daughter, but has to work up a relationship (well, both of them do) due to them being brought together so quickly.

she isn't good at cooking, she still tries though.
she is a tad lazy and will call upon family maids to do some menial tasks, but usually to take care of things she can't due to PTA meetings and most other school related things eating her time.

the mom is a cow lady, daughter is a fox girl. i know, original concepts, but i have had the idea for a while now.

>>93412704
>not investing in inertia dampening fields for weightless tits and jetpacks for speed
Do you even comics?

>>93412476
What you fail to realize is that nobody gives a shit.

>>93412803
i do, but i guess its how i roll
but i suppose i never meant it to be something like a cape comic, more of a slice of life, but with huge boobs and a loving relationship between a mother and daughter

>>93412938
i guess also, my idea changes due to the fact that its about a woman and not having a woman shoved the fuck in because WE NEED A WOMEN AT THIS JUNCTION!

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What about a forsaken Royal turned perfectionist arena fighter, with a huge chip on her shoulder, and an opioid addiction? Each of these things contribute to her personality. She is mostly unpleasant, and short tempered. She actively seeks to kill people who she feels have wronged her, which after 25 years of hard living, is a lot of people.

>>93405860
You don't watch a lot of anime.

>>93413071
Put some fucking shoes on her already! Also put some cloth or linen vest to protect the chest

>>93406968
Ludo and Toffee are pretty cool villains.
Discord was pretty great too.

>>93401801
Of course you're right but you're talking with tumbrites. They are too stupid to understand but it's normal, they are kids ...or faggots

>>93401195
Rebecca is just putting a ridiculous dream world for girls on air. The show is good but in some aspects like Connie and her relationship with Steven we're talking about marketing and little idiot girls who want to be the hero that's why Connie is a Mary Sue, she was done to let girls insert themselves as a part of the story.

I love Pearl but her aptitude in Mr Greg is shit, her drama about Rose is bullshit

>>93406968
This barely counts as an example but I can't think of many female heroes with good villains, though I did like Ice Queen from those genderswapped Adventure Time episodes.
Example of a female villain who's actually more threatening than their male counterpart which is cool.
It's something I guess.

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>>93400369
nowadays western nu-males or REAL males?

>>93401645
No, because of how SOCIETY responds to the sexes differently.

>>93401645

That's not how a bimodal distribution works tho

The average male isn't much like a female and the average female isn't much like a male. On one end of the distribution of males you have those that are further away from female traits and on the other end of the distribution you have those who are closer to female traits, it is in this space that you see an overlap between the males who are 'closer' to female and the females who are 'closer' to male.

So realistically you'd pick a set of traits and then determine what the chances are for a male or female to have those traits and then roll a dice with those modifiers, so to speak.

>>93413503
She doesn't wear armor. It slows her down. Her mentality is that if she moves perfectly, she won't get hit. That's why she's so scarred. Reminders of fuck ups and failures. Plus it's hot as fuck where she lives.

>>93413071
>Warrior princess
*yawn* seen this before and it's just as shit in this iteration
How does she handle being substantially weaker and having worse reflexes than men?
>>93414436
>She doesn't wear armor. It slows her down. Her mentality is that if she moves perfectly, she won't get hit.
Oh so she's a mary sue as well? I hope she's at least magical or psychic to justify this. But then you would have a magical warrior princess which is even worse.

Why can't people write strong female characters who are good at female things? Why do they always have to shove them into male environments, especially male environments that even most men wouldn't be able to survive in?

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>>93400301
rational people don't think like this and they are all that matters

>>93413071
Sounds awesome.
I like her design too

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>>93400386
>>93400353
>entering that dungeon

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>>93415018
>replying to posts you didn't even read

>>93415427
Strange because I quoted half of one of the posts and didn't need to read any farther than "Noble turned arena fighter" for the other post for my argument to be made.

-4 STR

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>>93415468
>admitting you didn't even finish reading
>still think you have a point
>/tg/ rp in an apple picking forum

>>93415137
Nobody listens to rational people because rational people are too quiet to be heard.

>>93415550
I fail to see how
> with a huge chip on her shoulder, and an opioid addiction? Each of these things contribute to her personality. She is mostly unpleasant, and short tempered. She actively seeks to kill people who she feels have wronged her, which after 25 years of hard living, is a lot of people.
Refutes my argument that as a woman she wouldn't stand a chance in an arena fighting environment

>>93415583
don't do this to me senpai I want to believe

>>93415663
(you)

>>93415796
If you want to avoid realizing that you seriously think female characters can be strong by putting them in male environments I legitimately feel sorry for you

>>93412704
tl;dr. Boil down your character to a two sentence brief descriptor, if you can't do that you have a list of personality traits not a character.

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>>93415663
I mean the setting is an obvious fantasy environment where suspension of disbelief is not only likely but expected. Using "muh realism" as an argument in any setting where suspension of disbelief is a given is autistic.

>>93415974
yeah, i probably can to tl;dr the whole shit

>>93416040
No anon I am arguing beyond fantasy or suspension of disbelief.
I am telling you that empowering female characters by forcing them into male environments and contriving success is pathetic.
I see it as being like making a story about a guy who got pregnant. Just as dumb, just as "b-but it's fantasy!". People are different, sexes are different. Play to the sexes strengths and craft an interesting narrative from that. Don't just paste females into male roles.

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>>93415880
>still going
>that reading comp
>implying
>"male environments"
anon I can only lose so many sides

>>93416153
Anyone can write "your are stupid" and "you lost the argument".
I can do that too.
You are so stupid, you didn't even address my argument and tried to deflect with "you didn't even read the post" and when I showed I did and that it was not relevant to my argument you backpedaled into "you are dumb"
No in fact you are dumb.

>>93416148
Why?

>>93416307
Because otherwise all you are telling people is that the feminine is worthless and the only interesting narratives lie in the masculine domain.
If you are an egalitarian you can see the issue with this.
The occasional subversion is interesting ( Like the Professor in Power Puff Girls ) but when it's all you're doing then it's as good as saying "feminine aspects are boring"

>>93416188
ok, listen close, 'cause I'm gonna break it down as much as I can for you; as you need a full essay to comprehend the points

you didn't even finish reading the post before shitposting. that already there nullifies anything you have to say on the matter. this would not work in a debate, you'd look like a complete faggot.
half of the shit you said was assumptions you made with no basis. also would not fly.

if you bothered to finish reading, you'd have realized your points of "mary sue!" were bullshit
anyone who uses the term "male environments" should neck themselves. there is no such thing and holy shit I didn't realize terms could get any dumber than "manspreading"

your point that she wouldn't survive means you never picked up a history book, which I highly recommend before the hanging by the way. your projection that she couldn't survive it-without even having read the shit mind you-is your own bull. also what is suspension of disbelief

writing females in violent scenarios does not imply quality of writing. and neither does writing them in "female environments". get off your high horse, it's gonna make it harder to hang. it's never the world, the characters or the conflict. good writers will have good writing, and shit writers will have shit writing. period.

>tl;dr I hear ropes are on sale this week

>>93416652
>you'd have realized your points of "mary sue!" were bullshit
"I don't wear armor because I'm so gud I just don't get hit" is mary sue garbage.
>anyone who uses the term "male environments" should neck themselves
If you had a male character get pregnant it would be weird. Why? Because women get pregnant. Pregnancy is a female environment, a feminine narrative. Now that I have established female environments exist, it's not that hard to extrapolate that male environments exists. And if you look at history, wars are fought by men. In fact, structured physical conflict such as arena fighting is almost always between men. Hmm, sure sounds like a masculine environment to me!
>your point that she wouldn't survive means you never picked up a history book,
Oh boy here we go.
>muh cherrypicked figurehead women means women fought in wars in any serious capacity

>tl;dr I hear ropes are on sale this week
You sure sound upset
Nice reddit spacing btw, it certainly helps you to fit in better

>>93416830
>"I don't wear armor because I'm so gud I just don't get hit" is mary sue garbage.
still didn't even finish his post

>If you had a male character get pregnant it would be weird. Why? Because women get pregnant. Pregnancy is a female environment, a feminine narrative.
you haven't seen enough porn. also pregnancy is a single-sex-only biological scenario not an environment.

>Now that I have established female environments exist, it's not that hard to extrapolate that male environments exists.
no.

>And if you look at history, wars are fought by men.
mm, yes, I've also had that bugerland education.

In fact, structured physical conflict such as arena fighting is almost always between men.
many times it is a man ruling. but there are death-crazy lady leaders

>Hmm, sure sounds like a masculine environment to me!
no. wars are human. not even just human-wars are animals.

>muh cherrypicked figurehead women means women fought in wars in any serious capacity
still haven't picked up a up history book, I see. or news on 3rd worlds.

>You sure sound upset
nah, you gave me something to do while I wait for this resin to dry. just about done now, so I'll stop here.

>Nice reddit spacing btw, it certainly helps you to fit in better
wew

>>93417374
>still didn't even finish his post
Nice try retard.
If you're going to samefag at least try to change your writing style.

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>>93400138
How come Japan is so sexist yet so good at writing female characters with actual depth?

>>93417698
>dissin' on best type yandere
confirmed shit taste

>>93417698
>Japan sexist?

Yes. Anime =/= real life.

>>93400138
The talent pool for writers and creative types doesn't often change and they just have an idea of how to do things and what works. And even when it does a lot of people writing draw their inspiration from past characters they've seen in other shit. There's some interesting female characters out there, it's better to support the positive ones you like and get them more exposure than complaining. Point to examples you like, not the shit you hate. The more good feedback the more they'll produce content that ties into that, and the more exposure the more writers will get into that shit and start writing similar things.

>>93400138
what's the pic supposed to be?

>>93417967
A heart attack on wheels.

>>93417698
Japan is horrifically sexist to the point that Yaoi exists as a genre exclusively for middle aged housewives to self insert into because they know that as women they will never remotely have the kind of social mobility that men are afforded.

They literally chased gay men out of a genre about gay men in gay relationships because the country is so bad for women. Actual, gay literature intended for a gay audience is BL now.

>>93402493
I saw those threads for the longest time and I thought I was missing episodes when I finally watched it there was so little content about this bitch. Everyone's ready to sacrifice a nut to get her married to Marco but she does next to nothing and has as much of a personality as a pigeon.

>>93401978
Yes.

>>93418104
That's how yaoi is in America.

>>93418210
Yaoi in the US is an incredibly niche fandom comprised of people almost exclusively on the internet. Yaoi in Japan is a large commercial market where people fork over actual real life dollars to buy manga and doujins of badly written men loving men.

>>93400369
that´s what you think

>>93400403
no
in fact the part of the brain who makes empathy happens is the amygdala, one of the few parts of the brains more developed in males than females, males are by far more empathic that´s why the most important thinkers and writers of human interaction and excistence were always male, the reason you and so many people think men are less empathic is because we live in a deeply alienated society were everyone distrust everyone else, women are by an evolutionary trait more docile so they search allies to strenghten her social circle and chances to survive(that´s why 80% of homeless people are males),
the axiom is simple, female are sociable in order to survive, male ar sociable for pleasure
sorry for the typos english is a second language

>>93409474
>poisoning the well
not saying they aren't, but that's a pretty dirty tactic anon.

>>93417570
For the same reason they have great women's wrestlers. They're honest with themselves. The wrestlers know they're going to quit at 32 to fuck off and have kids. So they go 110%, burn their bodies out, have great matches, and then fuck off and go have kids. In America, the women pretend they're men, who typically peak mid-30's to early 40's, and leave a ton in the tank...only to fuck off at 32 to have kids. With character writing, Japan is willing to admit there are stereotypes of women and they lean into them. Even if they don't bother with depth they at least have a bigger palette to work with than the "sort of bitchy main character" and "super bitchy non-main character" found in America.

>>93405860
An outwardly nice character who is secretly devious is not even a rarity in anime (although from what I remember about this show, this isn't what her character is really like).

>>93418104
>Yaoi exists as a genre exclusively for middle aged housewives

Dat projection.

Oooh dat projection.

Hate to tell ya bud, but the US is the only country in which comics are exclusively marketed towards middle aged white males who have lost control over their lifes and their nation decades ago.

In every other country, kids and maybe teenagers are the main target audience for comics.

>>93418104
>They literally chased gay men out

That never happened. The genre was never written by gay males and never meant for gay male consumers to begin with.

>>93418104
25-29 year old women are the largest demographic at Comiket (followed by 30-34), which is where tons of BL doujinshi get published and sold. The average age of female participants is 32.5. So not exactly middle aged housewives. BL manga was never by or for gay men in the first place, so nobody got chased out of anything, and there is actual gay manga too (bara/geikomi).

If Japanese women have such poor social mobility, then why do we find so many female manga artists, writers, designers, animators, directors, composers etc. in the manga/anime/game industries? Americans keep complaining about a scarcity of women in those same/similar fields, despite supposedly having superior social mobility.

>>93400403
Would you explain the psychology of woman characters, as you see it? I'd be interested in what you have to say.

>>93411099
>>93411778
>>93411792
>>93411914
Has tumblr been raiding this thread? Of course men and women are physically and psychologically different.

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>>93410032
You know, say what you will about Hellsing, but Seras is this kind of character done right.
Yes, she's bubbly, immature and a bit naive/stupid, but it's not obnoxious, she shows emotion beyond that, and she grows as a character over time.
Not to mention she isn't competent from the beginning, so her "badass" status near the end feels earned both in old series and manga/Ultimate.

>>93418617
>that´s why the most important thinkers and writers of human interaction and excistence were always male
No. It's because women are complete idiots and wastes of flesh. Empathy has nothing to do with it. I definitely have less empathy than most women and I'm definitely smarter than any woman who ever lived. Yes, even that dumb whore Curie who coattailed off her husband's work.

>>93419236
>great women's wrestlers
That's an oxymoron.

>>93418526
That's what i know. if there's anything that's my strongest point it's understanding the psyche of human nature and its nuances very well

That's why I'm so good at making multiple personalities and manipulating people :^)

>>93419236
>men peak mid 30s to early 40s
this again. ATTRACTIVE and DESIRABLE young men are better than older men.
Of course, if you're neither of those things like most of 4chan and the online world then you'll never be attractive. I can see why ugly young men delude themselves into thinking this but face it you'll never be attractive to a woman who's worth shit.

BTW, Japan and America both have immense flaws when writing female characters so not only are you an ugly, unattractive deluded fat male you are full of shit too. Kill yourself.

>>93421831
Just because America has immense flaws in something doesn't mean Japan must necessarily have them too.

>>93421831
we found the roast roasty

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>>93415018
Sadly, you can't understand a fleshed out character in a single paragraph. The culmination of experiences over the course of 25 years makes for a multifaceted personality.
You can cry "marysue" all day, doesn't change who she is. I guess you could write about a woman who gets in a single fight trying to survive an experience she was forced into, and gets killed right away. Cool story bro. Very interesting.
Or maybe you don't write about shit but bitch on an anonymous imageboard about people who do.
Here are the facts. She's big and strong, and she's highly trained. She's been fighting for years. She takes drugs to deal with the pain of broken bones, vicious wounds and years of punishment. The girl she was is dead in her mind... so royal or not, it doesn't matter. That part of her life is over.
I'd rather write what I think is compelling than focus on making sure she doesn't conform to some arbitrary list of bullshit you don't like.

>>93421813
>That's what i know
yeah that´s what i mean, you "know" that about yourself, it´s called subjectivity

>That's why I'm so good at making multiple personalities and manipulating people :^)

here you just went full retard

>>93416367
Isn't the entire concept of aspects being feminine or masculine inherently sexist and thus anti-egalitarian?

By your ideology's logic bravery or compassion are just good, not masculine or feminine respectively.

>>93418104
How exactly does bara fit into this paradigm you're inventing for yourself.
Bara is for gay men, BL is and always was for primarily for women.

>>93418617
And yet most studies completely contradict this. You're full of shit.

>>93424293
studies contradict each other all the time, that´s why no one cares about them

>>93402134

Blacks can't be robots. This is scientific fact.

>>93426132
But pretty much all robots built in the US are niggers.

Even the Terminators are black, which can be clearly seen from the way they specifically target White Anglo-Saxons in their race war.

>>93426208
>Skynet are dindus
Explains everything.

>>93400148

fpbp

>>93421831
>>93422946

Haha yeah, she'll never fit in. What a creepo

>>93422946
>R-roastie! This is a good insult, roastie, roastie!
Verging on just calling someone a virgin or basement dweller levels of, "I've got nothing to say".