Over The Garden Wall thoughts

>>93362982
>The first 8 made me feel I had just walked into an art gallery with moving pictures.

What did he mean by this?

>>93363044
Exactly what it says.

The animation is beautiful throughout the whole show, ridiculously so. The writing for the first 8 episodes is reminiscent of abstract art, or at least art that's extremely difficult to understand.

>>93362982
its slowpoke anon who missed out on the hundreds of 500 post threads on this and gravity falls as well as fun livestreams when this shit was relevant. good job fuck face. enjoy your dead threads

>>93363194
You might have had a point if there were still decent cartoons being made. There aren't.

>>93363125
>The writing for the first 8 episodes is reminiscent of abstract art, or at least art that's extremely difficult to understand.

But it's not hard to understand at all

>>93363321
I don't mean that literally. It's hard to understand the meaning behind it, if there even is any.

>>93363341
You probably don't have the brainpower to think about the meaning of something.

>>93362982
Oh, you're that faggot who said GF was perfect?
No wonder you have no taste.

>>93363484
Practically perfect for what it was.
Don't twist my words.

And I'm seriously kind of shocked there are so many anons who think OTGW is better than GF

>>93363522
It wasn't perfect in any way, you faggot. It was mediocre at best, cringeworthy and terrible at worst.
>And I'm seriously kind of shocked there are so many anons who think OTGW is better than GF
That's because they have taste.

>>93363555
OTGW's scripts have near-zero effort put into them, except the last two episodes. And even the animation, while incredibly beautiful, is so random that it is likely easier to animate than GF on average ("mistakes" are less noticeable).

GF, on the other hand, almost perfectly evokes that wistful feeling of childhood summers while NEVER being cringey, not even once. That's a sign of seriously talented writing there.

And that's without getting into the differences in character depth, and so on.

>>93363341

Why must you be so concerned about "meaning"? Do you want an Anon to say ,"Well it's secretly an allegory for X," or "The plot is REALLY about Y"? Why limit yourself that way? You sound like you don't have a lot of fun watching cartoons.

I'm not saying "turn your brain off, bro!" There's clearly a lot to appreciate not just in the art but in the story and characters as well. It's a beautifully told tale with a lot of heart to it.

>>93363626
>And even the animation, while incredibly beautiful, is so random
>random

Did we even watch the same show? That description makes no sense.

>>93362982
>Once again /co/ has failed me
Well gee, I'm sure sorry we failed you anon. You clearly deserve much better than us.

>>93363626
>OTGW's scripts have near-zero effort put into them
>almost perfectly evokes that wistful feeling of childhood summers
No, it doesn't. It's just a shitty unfunny comedy.
>while NEVER being cringey
You can't be that damn delusional. Gravity Falls was pure cringe.
>That's a sign of seriously talented writing there.
Fuck off, Alex. Just fuck off.
>character depth
Except they're on the same level. Hell, at least OtGW characters are not annoying.

>>93363634
>I'm not saying "turn your brain off, bro!"
Actually, my problem throughout 80% of the series was that it was essentially either this or turn off the show itself.

GF has maybe a handful of episodes I would ever want to rewatch.

OtGW is an October ritual.

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I'm so glad that they actually used a menacing villain that was never treated as a joke.

>>93363685
>unfunny comedy
GF's humor is done brilliantly. Not just the jokes themselves but also the comedic timing.
>Gravity Falls was pure cringe.
Do you have any examples?
>Except they're on the same level.
Dipper is a million times more developed than Wirt, and Mabel far more developed than Greg.
You may just be comparing the wrong siblings.

And OTGW's other characters are cardboard cutouts, almost literally actually.

>>93363689
Do you even have a brain to turn off? GF was just two kids and their jew uncle solving mysteries in canada or something.

>>93363757
I love how he's scarier than most villains with (sometimes omnipotent) superpowers, large bodycounts, horrible atrocities, etc

>>93363783
>GF's humor is done brilliantly
Just admit you're trolling. GF humor made me want to turn the TV off by how absolutely horrible it is.
>Dipper is a million times more developed than Wirt, and Mabel far more developed than Greg.
Yup. you're trolling. Kill yourself.

Gravity Falls is where you go when you fuck up so badly that you want to just be a kid again.
Over the Garden Wall is where you go when you fuck up so badly that you want to die.

This show was kino.

From reading the posts this guy has made I don't really think we should bother trying to show him that OtGW is superior to GF. Instead we should leave him in the dead thread with a feeling that deep down he knows his show is inferior to OtGW and will refuse to enjoy it regardless of what we say. i.e He doesn't deserve to enjoy it at this point and yes it's unfortunate but if he wants to find enjoyment in OtGW he can find his own way.

>>93363626
>That's a sign of seriously talented writing there
Ignoring how you went and said NEVER CRINGEY ONCE, this bothers me
Saying its SERIOUSLY GOOD writing because you personally think it was never cringey.

>>93364423
I made the thread about GF before I had watched a single second of OTGW, and based on /co/'s praise for it I expected to enjoy it more. Fuck you.

>>93363783
>You may just be comparing the wrong siblings.
Who said you can only compare it that way?

>all this "now THAT'S storytelling!!'' tier shit
God you're obnoxious. I like gf but the way you praise it is retarded

>>93364428
Taking statements out of context is so much fun, isn't it?

>>93364497
What the fuck? I didn't?? Are you 12?

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>>93362982
Did this cartoon hit the nostalgia feels for anyone else in their late 20's early 30's?

>>93364514
You cut off half of the sentence which was the basis for my conclusion about the writing quality.

Over the garden wall aired all in one week and was only 5 half hours. As a result, no one developed impossible expectations or head canons for it- they just accepted it as a nice surprise. Gravity falls aired over multiple years with huge breaks, and people filled that space with insanely personal desires of what the next episode and conclusion should be.

Co is all about expectations, the more they build something up, the more they tear it down. Everyone who binges GF all in one go loves it. And everyone who goes into OTGW with no expectations loves that too

>>93364665
>Everyone who binges GF all in one go loves it
I don't. It's still terrible even if you binge it.

>>93363341
You really want to have a "meaning" spoonfed to you, or else you wouldn't be able to enjoy anything?
The meaning of OTGW is that nothing is as it seems. The ghosts aren't ghosts, Adelaide isn't some benevolent fairy, Auntie Whispers isn't a monster, Funderberker isn't some highschool jock and the Beast isn't as mighty as he seems.
No matter how dire the situation looks, there is always a solution if you know more about the problem.
There. I spoonfed it to you, you sentient turd.

>>93364729

Not him, but I don't think that OTGW have a message like as a whole, "nothing is as it seems" could be more like a theme than a message for the audience. I think OTGW is a series that only tries to tell itself without a collective message, but with an enormous amount of subtext that allows to interpret the story in two different levels.

However I have to admit that even this story suffers from small clashes of ideas, it's like that the author had tried to preserve some ideas of a preliminary version of his work. I don't know if I should put the blame on the channel (which undoubtedly influenced the final result) or on the author for his intention of keeping them.

>>93362982
You should have listen to me. I never hyped Otgw. It's a "good" show that works better if you like the music. All parts are a ok - good but no part is really great.

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I liked it

>>93362982
Holy shit you DO have terrible taste, just please stop before you embarrass yourself any further.

I never understand why on /co two things can seemingly never be great. It's like you either get to like Gravity Falls or OTGW and that's it, no middle ground. Why can't both be good shows? Why does everything around here have to be such a pissing contest where we have to 'objectively' find the best thing and shit on everything else. I'm not dissing anyone's opinion here, hate what you hate, like what you like, but that's a sentiment I kinda' see as a whole. Eh, whatever I'm probably just projecting.

>>93362982
It's like a box of chocolates. ok chocolates
A bit scary but never really.
A bit funny but never really.
A bit smart but never really.
Add some retro music and some eye-candy parts and it's done.

>>93365773
Here was never any rivalry. I personally think otgw is over rated but I never shit on the show.

>>93365679
I actually didn't like the music very much. Forgot to mention that part.

>>93365781
This is an apt description.

OtGW is a fun Halloween movie, but falls short in the morals department (like most cartoons) when it is expected that the elder sibling is responsible for the younger's actions. (Even if the younger brother's actions are in direct opposition to his brother's)
I'd let my kids watch it

>>93366127

>but falls short in the morals department (like most cartoons) when it is expected that the elder sibling is responsible for the younger's actions.

Wait, what's wrong with this? Shouldn't older siblings be looking out for younger ones, especially at that age?

Well since you've bothered to make these threads, you might as well try Scooby Doo Mystery Inc if you haven't already.

>>93366426
I've actually thought about that, but I have a built-in aversion to most if not all of the SD franchise. How different is it from most Scooby-Doo stuff?

>>93366127
>>93366217
Come to think of it, it's one of the reasons I prefer GF. The twins are the same age (by definition), so you don't get this annoying imbalance dynamic.

And them being of opposite sexes as opposed to different ages makes for more interesting comparisons anyways.

>>93366469

Very. It actually gives the main cast (other than Scooby and Shaggy) personalities and has an overarching plot that gets absolutely bananas. Honestly the less you know going in the better, but suffice it to say that I wound up loving it despite never really liking the older series at all.

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>>93363783

>>93366782
Those are my actual opinions. Take them or leave them.

>>93365679

It's probably the best cartoon of the decade, at least it's better that GF. And I found weird so much hype for GF... it's normal, good but not special. Stan is the better character.

>>93368862
>Stan is the better character.
You mean the more interesting character. "Better" is quite a stretch in this case.

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>>93365773

This is because there are always stupid kids who open threads saying "Star vs better than Adventure Time", "Gravity Falls and OTGW are very similar", "Dipper and Wirt are very similar but Dipper is better" (They hardly have something in common).

Then there are people with a taste more kino who tries to clarify the superiority of some works over others. No need to say that GF is bad, but being sincere it's a simpler work.

>>93366217
Looking out for, yes. Being held solely accountable for anything the sibling does, no. It's also hard to feel the older brother could be held accountable when his brother consistently discounted any possible authority. And I doubt in a children's cartoon mini series there was much he could do to enforce any authority without being censored considering the degree by which his little brother disrespected him.

He certainly deserved being called out on his spinelessness, which also happened.

>>93369103
>GF: layer upon layer upon layer of complexity
>OTGW: muh True Art is Incomprehensible trope
>it's a simpler work.

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>>93366556

>And them being of opposite sexes as opposed to different ages makes for more interesting comparisons anyways.

Yeah it's cliche

>>93369176
Which one are you talking about?

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>>93367808

I discard them (lol)

>>93369103
>Gravity Falls and OTGW are very similar
They are in several key ways.
>Dipper and Wirt are very similar but Dipper is better
This is completely true.

>>93363626
I'm normally not one to pounce on another person's opinion, but I feel your belief that OtGW's scripts have less effort put into them than GF's needs to be addressed. OtGW aspires miles higher than GF, and digs considerably deeper on both the thematic and emotional levels. Only one of these two series maintains a consistent quality and tone throughout its entire run, and it sure ain't Gravity Falls.

>>93369312
>throughout its entire run
You do realize Gravity Falls is OVER EIGHT TIMES the length of Over the Garden Wall, right?

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>>93369216

GF, it remembers me to any other series with twins and all that "boys are like this and girls are like this "thing.

Good grief now that I think about it... they even have a grumpy grandpa like character.

>>93369427
The difference is that GF has stunningly high-quality writing, not just for a cartoon but even for a TV show in general.

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>>93369252

Wirt is someone who don't cares about have friends, he is a lonely person and he feels good being a lonely person (canon comic reference), he don't trust in people because they think that the people who are too good have hidden bad intentions. (This is written directly by the author)

Dipper is a nerd who is discrimined for being smart, this is a cliche.

Greg is a five years little kid.

Mabel is twelve and she is a retard and a girly girl. Except for the retard part she is another cliche.

Wendy is a copy of Marceline cool attitude and her axe with Beatrice colors and her big family.

Alex Hirsch is a wanna be by McHale, "he wants be creepy but he is not creepy. ey, guys!

I'm Alex Hirsch, the creator of Gravity Falls, and the voices of Grunkle Stan, Soos, Bill Cipher, Old Man McGucket, and possibly your nightmares."

McHale is really creepy and sometimes it seems like he need to be tied for his others writers to don't make his stories excessively creepy.

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>>93369624

Yeah the show have a better writing quality, but it's still cliche and OTGW is less cliche.

>>93369984
Just about every statement about Gravity Falls in this post is an outright lie.

>>93370064
Abstract "art" is less cliché than real art.
Doesn't mean it's not dog vomit, sometimes literally.

>>93369375
Of course. This is a point in OtGW's favor, in my opinion. GF had all that extra time and still managed to bungle their storyline in spite (or perhaps because) of it. The final 30% of OtGW ties the series up very expertly, as a final act should; the last 30% of GF initially promises to do so, but then throws in some mediocre filler and rushes the conclusion. Had Hirsch possessed the storytelling finesse of McHale, I'm sure GF could have been much better and even a bit shorter too. A pity that he did not.

>>93364665
To be honest, GF quality goes up and down, and its loses a lot of that mystery feel once you reach the final season, and becomes a typical family summer show with weird and wacky adventures. GF had a strong start, but perhaps time constraints and Disney meddling affected it.

>>93369624
This is one of those posts where I just want to use the maymay arrows to make it all meme green because there's no way any human could write this and actually believe it in their heart.

It's got ok writing. It is not fantastic writing. It is far, far removed from anything aproaching
>stunningly high-quality writing, not just for a cartoon but even for a TV show in general.
It is the same twee "one plot per episode with series long overplot" that's been trotted out over the past twenty odd years.

It's not even the best cartoon show at lore & plot, let alone the best on tv.

>>93362982
>Once again /co/ has failed me, this time in the opposite direction. I'm not liking this trend, guys.
I suggest leaving and finding a better place to discuss cartoons at, preferably one where its userbase doesn't disappoint you with their opinions on the cartoon you want to watch next. For which you'd have to somehow know beforehand that you're guaranteed to like what they like in the exact same way they do, or they'd have to somehow know what to think in order for their opinions to reflect your impression after you watch what they like and dislike. But I'm sure that's a minor inconvenience.

Alternatively, I strongly suggest not getting disappointed everytime that your impression of a cartoon doesn't match the opinions you've seen about it on /co/, or anywhere else for that matter, as you will always enjoy something on a personal level that will absolutely never be entirely the same as that of any other person or group, even if you end up considering you can agree with the general consensus of "everybody here likes it" or "everybody here hates it" after watching the cartoon you've heard so much about.

>>93370081

ey, guys!

"I'm Alex Hirsch, the creator of Gravity Falls, and the voices of Grunkle Stan, Soos, Bill Cipher, Old Man McGucket, and possibly your nightmares." -Alex HirschJournal 3 extra content-

He is always trying to be creepy or spooky but he sounds like a kid, it's almost funny.

It's great that you're documenting how little taste you have as a cautionary tale for others, but I don't see why you think anyone cares about you or your no-taste blog.

>>93371453
>implying all of /co/ isn't a blog
>implying all of 4chan isn't a blog
>implying the entire web isn't just one big blog
wew lad

>>93370109

OTGW is not "Abstract Art", it's a definide a very well defined art, it just requieres some analysis to understand it, son are you stupid? Do you really don't understand anything about this cartoon or it's characters?

I find it very strange, I thought GF fans liked to think about details and to overanalyze things. (Even when these details are useless to anything).

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>>93370518

THIS. Besides OTGW was supposed to had 18 episodes that's mean that the writers had to put a lot of effort into telling us a story with almost half of the episodes.

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>>93370620

I don't know... I feel like it was the opposite. The first season barely showed us something about the mystery and most of this seem unimportant things (like the romantic interest of Dipper), and the end of this was very cartoonish, seriously Bills left me a very bad first impression (there is a similar chapter in yin yang too. image related the episode is called wubble in paradise).

The second has a high point when Uncle Stanford appears and after that he falls back into the fill.

>>93371069
tl;dr: Everyone has opinions.

Having Samuel Ramey as The Beast was cool, he has such a great fucking voice.

>>93371946
How do you know it says that if you didn't read?

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>>93371946

>>93371679
But it wasn't cut down because of cost or whatever. It was cut down because the writers couldn't think of any more plots, which is just sad.

>>93362982
so you think season 2B of GF was amazing and that Over the Garden Wall was awful

Well I think I figured out your problem, you just have completely shit taste

>>93372872
No, I have great taste.

>>93372658
>It was cut down because the writers couldn't think of any more plots, which is just sad

how is this sad they realize that the story they wanted to tell did not need 18 episodes so they told it in the appropriate amount of episodes

>>93372658

That sounds really strange... if writers couldn't think of other plots, then how is that McHale wrote five comics that according to him are basically episodes that didn't aired?

They have a darker vibe and although it fits perfectly in the plot, they present different ideas that the cartoon, "Wirt enjoys being in the unknown, in fact he loves it", that is different to the constant "we need to go home" that he says in the Cartoon, Wirt doesn't trust people and it seems that the author means that his reasons are correct although the cartoon suggests that he is a "paranoid".

According to McHale, disguises are a symbol to show people who conceal their true identities, the author even detracts the romantic interest of Wirt (Sara) using this symbolism and explains that Wirt does not know her and he's in love with a disguise.

All these ideas are quite obscure, and it is possible that the series has been censored to make it more child-friendly, I think that's why some episodes were cut, lack of budget may be an option, But Cartoon Network is not a company that you can talk negatively without being fired, this happened to other writer.

I think the comics have ideas that come closer to the original ending McHale wanted, he wanted Wirt to stay in the unknown but Greg would return home.

>>93373138
IIRC only one of the comics is based on an episode that wasn't made.

>>93364553
I was such a Wirt in high school. Like nearly that exact kid but black. Over the Garden Wall hit me hard.

>>93373138
>the author even detracts the romantic interest of Wirt (Sara) using this symbolism and explains that Wirt does not know her and he's in love with a disguise.
Oh fuck, that would be stupid.
>I think the comics have ideas that come closer to the original ending McHale wanted, he wanted Wirt to stay in the unknown but Greg would return home.
Oh fuck, that would be horrific.

This is exactly why creators should not be given free reign over their works.

Potatoes...

>>93373451
... Molasses?

>>93362982
Well there's no helping for people with no taste.

>>93373813
If want some, oh just ask us!

>>93373342

The first edition in the 2016 seems pretty canon for me, it even fills up some holes in the original cartoon, it shows us Fred's story, they fit as intermediates between episodes, for example, one of the comics begins where episode 3 ends and ends where episode 4 begins (take this as an example), this format applies to all but the last comic and all of them are written by the author. (Like the first comic that you mentioned) With the exception of the last comic where he works in collaboration with a second writer.

The second edition of the comics (2017) is completely non-canon and the writer does not write them.

>>93373400
>Oh fuck, that would be stupid.

He never said that he discarded the idea, this is canon. I think that it's something very realistic In high school people do not choose their relationships properly, and it's stupid to think that a person who writes letters to a girl feels a deep love for her, sometimes the young people do it for mere boredom.

That and maybe the author actually has preference for Beatrice, in the comics it explains Wirt likes Beatrice because she never reserves its criticisms towards him and considers her an authentic person, she does not wear a disguise. It is very likely that she is the real OTP in this story. At least the author considers that his relationship with Wirt is deeper.

>Oh fuck, that would be horrific

It's not sooo horrible. In fact the story and the background of Wirt like a character imply that he could be happier there than in his own home. "I sank my head into the water and ... I felt so alive." -Wirt in extra content.

"A world of transparent people who values what is opaque (Wirt)" -Wirt again.

And it fit with the ending in The Divine Comedy where "Dante (Wirt) got reunited with Beatrice in the heaven but he laments that Virgil can't go with them..."

Gregory is a traslation of the name Virgil.

>>93362982
I watched OTGW when it leaked before it aired and I was underwhelmed. When I watch cartoons and movies nowadays I feel like they were made by using madlibs and themed words. Like the creators sat down and said "We're brainstorming a list of nouns today. The themes are Halloween, Fairy Tales and anything that sounds old-fashionedy. Go!" "Pumpkins! Toads! Oil! Skulls! Lanterns! Molasses! Fairy Boat! Monster! Piano music!" And then filled in the blanks. "A toad plays some piano music on a fairy boat. Next episode?"

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Shit, I go to bed for a few hours and you're still replying to this guy. What happened to "let's leave him in his dead thread he's not worth it"? Just imagine how many (You)s you've given him in the last 8 hours.

>>93373369
bitch you wrote poetry in high school?

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I personally really like Over The Garden Wall. It has this alice in wonderland vibe with the way it was written. I also like the little hints in episodes foreshadowing what will happen that you only catch after watching it a second time.
>>93365931
What did you not like about the music? You can't just say you didn't like something without an explanation.

>>93375035
No. But I was a loser in band who thought people held grudges against me that I imagined all on my own. Knew way too much about shit that no one else gave a fuck about like architecture. And pined for a girl people thought was somewhat cool while being worried that she'd be won over by a total nerd that most of my peers grudgingly tolerated at best. And she was. Twice.

>>93374703
>fairy boat

Did you mean ferry? And it's a steamboat.

It's not just old-fashioned stuff. It's specifically Americana.

>>93363125
Very late to this thread but it's worth posting to just tell you how much of an absolute fucking retard you are. Holy shit it is amazing to me that anyone could be as stupid as you, OP. Just really look at the sentences this faggot typed out sincerely.

>>93365773
I like Gravity Falls and love OtGW. I certainly harbour no ill will to either. Don't generalize.

>>93369166
>layer upon layer upon layer of complexity
Please. I love Gravity Falls for what it is, a comfy, funny show with an often interesting plot, but there's no deeper meaning. OtGW at least carries some thematic weight theough its surrealism and metaphor.

It's actually pretty bad. The only good thing about it is the backgrounds and some of the animation.

The fat kid (forgot his name) is just constantly spouting lolsorandum humor. It's almost unwatchable.

>>93369624
>For a tv show in general
>Gravity Falls
>Anywhere near the level of something like Fargo
This is just sad.

>>93364729
>>93365616
Consider Wirt's age his stepbrother 's relationship and what got them in that world.

>>93364729
>nothing is as it seems
"that's a rock fact"

>>93377768
BUT THE STORY

>>93371407
It's almost like... he's a comedy writer...writing jokes...that you don't get

>>93362982
/co/ failed you? Do you faggot actually think we owe you something, you self entitled prick? Christ, take your ego and go tell someone who cares.

>>93362982
>is less cartoony, which is often a good thing
sage

>>93377890

Well I can't find a message behind Wirt's familiar conditions, it's more like a sad story about a boy than a story with a message. Let me explain it.

You can consider his step-father part of a big reason behind his desire for stay in the Unknow. In the extra content we discover that Wirt father is dead and it seems like Wirt was real close to him. It seems that he inherited his tape recorder and apparently Wirt enjoys the poetry because his father liked this, with this we know that they were very attached (he use the voice of his father like an example of beautiful things but says that it's something melancholic).

It seems that his father died at some point in his childhood, but Wirt remembers him quite well which means that he lived long enough to leave a mark on the child. With this hint you can discover the rest of his background.

Her mother got married again, Wirt is 10 years older than Greg which means she probably did not expect much.


After listening to some comments from teenagers (in a magazine) who have stepfathers it isn't difficult to imagine that Wirt is outraged at having to follow orders of his stepfather or deal with the different way of thinking of this man whose relationship with his mother obviously never approve. And he may also feel replaced by Greg. It could be said that her mother overcame the loss of her father, started a new family and now Wirt is something that remained of a relationship that went wrong.

He is a person who is left without a place in the world and finds a place where he fits better (the unknown). I think this was the familiar background that the author wanted for Wirt considering the ending that he wanted, I'm not surprised if it was limited by the channel in this respect, remember Fry Song?

>>93374847
>constant complaints about no actual discussion on /co/
>this faggot anon: why not just ignore someone who wants to discuss a show, just because I don't agree with his opinions?
The likes of you are literally destroying /co/.

There's no helping your shit taste. Just leave this board.

>>93379044

I don't think that he's trying being funny...

>>93370518
You really don't get it...
OTGW is almost exactly the length of an average movie. Do you realize how hard it is to make two, three, even four movies of similar quality? There's a reason sequelitis is a well-known trope.

Now imagine making EIGHT (slightly more actually, there's ~30 minutes of extra footage).

>>93365773

Because GF fans are salty piss baby shippers who are upset that every other TV is better and has a more compitent creator than that liberal piss baby Alex.

>>93369984

The only thing you got correct was Greg and Mabel.

>>93381303
If what you're saying is that OtGW is higher quality on account of its brevity and that the quality of GF suffers as a result of its length, I'm in complete agreement.

>>93371679

CN cut it down because of the risk factor. This is the first time they actually soley produce a short series for nothing more than award bait, not because it was going to cost them a shit ton of money to do 18 episodes.

Let alone, given OtgW theme I think it works much better as shorts than full half hour episodes.

>>93379543

>In the extra content we discover that Wirt father is dead

In the tavern song Writ says that his parents divorced.

Imagine being OP. Imagine having taste that horrible. You get up, eat some nice eggs and bacon and all you can taste is shit, going to go straight for the chicken tendies tomorrow. You go to the vending machine at work and get excited that they have Pepsi Fire. You're grocery shopping and skip past the aisle of craft beer and grab some Natty Ice. That's how bad the taste we are dealing with is.

>>93382806
Just Greg, actually.
If anyone thinks Mabel is a cliché (or retard for that matter), they seriously need to rewatch GF.

>>93383667
You realize this is exactly what said OP thinks of your taste, right? (Except more pretentious.)

>>93383820

She sure wasn't a good character.

>>93383891
Quite right, she's a GREAT character.

(Which OTGW doesn't have any of.)

>>93384521
The Beast and the Woodsman. More pathos (and higher quality) between those two alone than in the whole of Gravity Falls.

>>93384785
Please tell me you're trolling. They're barely characters at all.

>>93384918
In what way are they barely characters? They seem to have personalities, motives, conflicts, places in the story, and such to me.

>>93384961
Sure, but all paper-thin ones. Like you could describe each of those aspects in just a few words.

>>93385137
You could describe many characters' personalities, motives, conflicts, and places in their stories "in just a few words." Take Macbeth for example:

>He's ambitious, but guilt and fear consume him. He wants power, but fears consequences. His coup goes awry. He's the villain-protagonist.

That's quite brief, but I'd still call him a well written character, and I'd say the same of the Beast and Woodsman. Don't mistake simple for simplistic.

>>93385452
>Don't mistake simple for simplistic.
Whenever someone says this it's usually an indicator of fake depth. This is no exception.

>>93385474
The characters are easy to comprehend, with simple but powerful motivations and actions. What in that says "fake depth" to you?

>>93383841
>implying anyone gives a shit what that retard thinks

>>93385547
Quite literally all of it.
>>93386588
>implying anyone gives a shit what YOU think

>>93386681
Judging by the amount of people agreeing with me and disagreeing with you in this thread alone, much more people do than they care about your shit opinion.
Just admit that you want to shitpost, faggot OP.

>>93383891
This is a terrible bait and you should feel bad.
Have a pity (You)

>>93386719
And yet they're responding in MY thread, usually to MY posts. Funny how that works.

>>93386681
Let me get this straight. In your view, simplicity is fake depth?

>>93386888
Because they want to laugh at your shitty contrarian taste.
Wow, what an achievement. You really should be proud of yourself.

>>93386910
Unless it's something VERY original, yes. Depth requires writers to put in far more effort than simple characterization generally takes.

>>93386983
So depth is something like complexity in your mind?

>>93386943
It's /co/ that's being contrarian. Gravity Falls has obtained some of the highest ratings pretty much everywhere, meanwhile OTGW is all but unknown

>>93387005
Sort of, but it only goes one way. You can easily have complexity without depth. Depth without complexity is extremely rare, if it even exists.

>>93387040
Then is your argument that simplicity is fake complexity?

>>93384521
I honestly believe you should kill yourself. No one should live with a taste that bad.
>>93387012
Nah, petulant retard. You are the definition of contrarian.
>WAHH THEY DARED TO DISAGREE WITH ME
>NOW I'LL SPEND DAYS SHITTING ON A THING THEY LIKED USING THE MOST RETARDED ARGUMENTS POSSIBLE
And no, liking something unpopular is not contrarian you complete fucking retard.

I wish it was you instead of him. >>93383624
>>93387091
He has no argument.

>>93387091
What? No, that's literally impossible.

>>93381303
>sequelitis
Get cancer, TvTropeshitter.
Oh, and sequels suck because they tend to be corporate garbage made by mediocre creators to ride on the coattails of an original work, not because of the shit you're babbling on about.

>>93387189
In your own words:

>Simplicity is fake depth? (>>93386910)
>Yes. (>>93386983)
>Depth is complexity? (>>93387005)
>Yes.* (complexity is not always deep, but depth is always complex). (>>93387040)
>Simplicity is fake complexity? (>>93387091)
>No. (>>93387189)

Your final statement contradicts the rest. Care to explain?

>>93387320
>but depth is always complex
No, I said depth REQUIRES complexity. It's not the same thing.

>>93387381
If depth requires complexity, then depth must always be complex. Those two are identical.

I'll grant you that by your logic "depth" and "complexity" don't have to be the exact same concept, but you've still said enough about the relationship between depth and complexity to make your initial statement of "simplicity is fake depth" nonsensical.

>>93387507
Depth requires other things besides complexity.

>>93383610

What?! Can you write the exact quote? In the traslation of my country he never metions it.

>>93387707
But you still claim it must have complexity, and that simplicity, by dint of not being complex, is "fake depth".

It's actually the "fake" aspect of this claim that strikes me as the most misguided. It implies that no one could aim intentionally for simplicity, or that it could have merit of its own—it's only "fake depth", a poor imitation.

As stated, I disagree. Simplicity can be a virtue in storytelling; it serves as one in OtGW. It's not a series that strives for complexity and "depth" and misses.

>>93387847
Okay, let me try to explain it another way:
Simplicity doesn't present itself as complexity. They're polar opposites, nobody would fall for that.

Simplicity presents itself as depth all the time, like in this instance. Grab a few common character traits that are regarded as "deep", put them together with some horribly clichéd character "arcs", and voila! Fake depth.

Of course simplicity isn't always bad, I never said that. But it's abundantly clear that it is being used to create an illusion of depth in the specific case of OTGW.

>>93383820

>Mabel is not a retard

Look, I like Gumball but I'm not going to say that "Richard is not a retard". Mabel is stupid real stupid, she is supposed to be stupid and retard.

>>93387928
>Grab a few common character traits that are regarded as "deep", put them together with some horribly clichéd character "arcs", and voila! Fake depth.
Sounds exactly like 100 percent of Gravity Falls "characters".

>>93387933
Scatterbrained is not the same thing as stupid.
>>93387983
Except that GF is one of the VERY few cartoons to avoid doing just that. (Well, mostly.)

>>93388039
Except you're a complete retard and it never avoided it.
Not that it matters because your idea of "depth" id idiotic, but still.

>>93387928
I appreciate the clarification on "can be fake depth" vs. "is fake depth", though I still fundamentally disagree.

In my experience, overtly simple stories like OtGW are very far from presenting themselves as "deep" (especially if "deep" implies "complex", as you say it does), and they certainly don't do it "all the time". I'm emphasizing "overtly" here, because I feel OtGW is very direct and honest about its fairy-tale simplicity.

I've found that it's needlessly complex stories that masquerade as deep much more frequently.

At any rate, I have an appointment to get to. I've appreciated this discussion despite our differences.

>>93388081
One of the best ways to tell is if the characters are predictable in their actions. Take Mabel, for example, who is constantly criticized as selfish. Yet you can never predict what she's going to do in a difficult situation: jump into it right away and save the day, remain indecisive and heighten the tension, make a really stupid decision causing the situation to become that much worse? All of these have happened on multiple occasions.

Now, completely random decisions are obviously not much better, but there's always a rationale behind them in these cases. It's just that you can't predict the outcome beforehand.

>>93383610
>>93387830

He said that his mother got remarried, but remarried. Although this word is popularly used to refer to a divorced person the meaning of the word itself is only "marry again or for a second time"

It can be used in a sentence to refer to a person who has become widowed and has married another person.

Here is an example of the dictionary: "Her mother died in childbirth, and her father remarried when she was a baby."

In the case of Wirt's father, the extra content implies that he has died because of the way Wirt expresses himself. It is perfectly harmonious with the lyric of the song. Although the scenario suggested above for Wirt's family background would not change too much if his parents were divorced.

>>93363044
>animation

>>93388468
>Yet you can never predict what she's going to do in a difficult situation
Yes, you absolutely can. Not everyone is a complete moron like you. Just shut the fuck up. It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>93388732
You keep telling yourself that.
>>93388670
And you too, I guess.

>>93388468
>>93388732
Oh, and unpredictable doesn't even mean "deep" nor does it matter. Some of truly great fictional characters are utterly predictable and yes, simplistic.
Stop spewing your pseudo-intellectual garbage and fuck off. At this point I would be really happy if you fell down a woodchipper.

>>93389027
>k-keep telling yourself that
Pathetic.
Just die.

>>93379543
Shit man. I've rewatched the series many time and I stil haden't considered that. Even it sounds really obvious in retrospect.

See that's why I loved OTGW.

Y'know I'd always been a little bothered about why I never liked GF as much as everyone else, but reading some of the posts here I start to understand a why.

There are a lot of hidden meanings in it but they tend to be related more to lore and world building. However I don't think a huge amount of it is used fir thematic exploration. The themes are very upfront and in the narrative.

By comparison what I really enjoyed about OTGW was it's reoccurring motifs; death, the passing of seasons, confronting the unknown and it's communicated not just in the narrative but the imagery and the soundtrack etc. For me it makes a much more immersive experience.

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>>93388039

Scattebrain: A person, usually female, that makes no goddamn sense at all; *thinks* she has her shit together; doesn't employ logic and takes rather irrational approaches toward problem solving; and commonly does dumb shit.

Stupid: regarded as showing a lack of intelligence, perception, or common sense

I guess that scatterbrain and stupid are not the same thing... she is both, she is dumb, irrational and she is stupid too (she is very bad student).

>>93390686
The thing is, it's almost trivial to scatter lolsorandom "deep hidden meanings" throughout your show that mostly make no sense as a cohesive whole.

Which is exactly what OTGW did.

>>93390795
But it makes perfect sense as a cohesive whole.
The story is about confronting the unknown, be it death, change, a problem etc.
It's indicated repeatedly through the story but compunded through the motifs, and pays off when made most explicit during Wirt's confrontation with the Beast.

If that doesn't read to some people that's fine. Not everyone picks up or cares to pick up on thematic use, some people prefer it more explicit with more focus on the world building and lore.

>>93391312
Repeating a theme throughout is not what I mean - but then again I get annoyed when actual critics of literature use that to judge works too.

Look man, my litmus test is if a child could make it. And I can tell you this, almost any 5-year-old could make something vaguely similar to OTGW, other than the animation (obviously) and certain parts of the last two episodes, which tie the plot together pretty well.

Everything else in that show is nice to watch once, I guess, but very trivial.

>>93391456
>almost any 5-year-old could make something vaguely similar to OTGW
>vaguely similar
The fuck does that mean? Practically any piece of work could be included in that definition, Gravity Falls especially. That's a fucking awful litmus test.

>>93391456
>A piece of content is good if a child, someone with literally limitless imagination and no sense of boundaries, could think of it
Your litmus test is shite, man.
Like, I get what you're going for, but it's super flawed.

>>93391543
>Practically any piece of work could be included in that definition, Gravity Falls especially.
There is no fucking way a kid could think of anything like GF. And that's BEFORE you get into the deep plot and character shit that you actually have to think about even as an adult.
>>93391744
>A piece of content is good if a child, someone with literally limitless imagination and no sense of boundaries, could think of it
Hmmm, this is a somewhat better argument than the previous idiot anon's, but at its core it's an argument for postmodernism.

Which, as 4chan very well knows, is a mistake.

>>93391813
>There is no fucking way a kid could think of anything like GF. And that's BEFORE you get into the deep plot and character shit that you actually have to think about even as an adult.
A brother and sister go to their uncle's shop for the summer and solve spooky mysteries while still having fun.

Any 5 year old could come up with that.

>>93391870
Yeah, they could come up with a one-line description like that one. Not with the entire show.
That's not so much the case with OTGW.

>>93391925
>Yeah, they could come up with a one-line description like that one. Not with the entire show.
?almost any 5-year-old could make something vaguely similar to OTGW
That one-line description is 'vaguely similar' to GF is it not, you dumb piece of shit. Like I said before, if you include, 'vaguely similar' within your litmus test, then its a garbage litmus test.

>>93391925
Also just to prove a point
A brother and sister go to their uncle's shop for the summer and solve spooky mysteries while still having fun. One day, an especially evil monster threatens the town, but with the help of their uncle's mysterious twin brother, they manage to save the day.

Now it's even MORE 'vaguely similar' to GF and its STILL something a 5 year old could come up with.

>>93391963
Okay whatever, let's make it "somewhat" similar instead of "vaguely". Happy, anon?

The bottom line is that the show would be recognizable as OTGW, even though many things about it would be different.

>>93392100
>The bottom line is that the show would be recognizable as OTGW, even though many things about it would be different.
No because that still also applies to GF and almost every single fucking show on the planet.

What makes OTGW and GF what they are is the sum of ALL their parts. And a child would not be able to replicate EITHER to the extent that both were created.

>>93392077
>>93392156
>their uncle's mysterious twin brother
Ah, but you see, here things are getting more interesting. In the 5-year-old version there is no way you would have a fraction of the backstory. Instead the twin brother would probably be popping out of nowhere, or with some crazy imaginative adventure backstory instead.

Just a few more differences like that and you ALREADY have a fundamentally different show.

>>93376392
There's this autistic contrarian in one of my Steam communities who grandstands just like OP, for no reason except to get attention. All of his arguments are like, "I found it hard to understand," "I didn't like the way the plot progressed," and other absolutely meaningless non-criticisms. It's infuriating to see people take the bait.

>>93392166
It already starts fundamentally 'vaguely similar 'though! Which is what my entire point is about!

>Just a few more differences like that and you ALREADY have a fundamentally different show.
And how does that not also apply to OtGW? Maybe in their version the Beast is an alien and they were actually abducted and put in a simulation.

>>93392222
Because those differences would be irrelevant, generally speaking.

Compare the Beast being an alien simulation to Ford not having anything resembling his backstory. Only one of those would severely affect the show. The other is just a creative difference limited by imagination.

(Ugh, between you and shit like >>93392215 I feel I should ignore the bullshit and go get one of those "useless" liberal arts degrees in literary analysis or something. I know exactly what I want to say, but I don't have enough formal background in this to formulate it well.)

>>93392328
You are fucking retarded. Not because of your opinion, but because you actually do not understand what my argument is.

>>93392379
You are not even trying to understand MY argument, anon.

>>93392420
Why would I bother when I'm not arguing against it? None of your points are at all correlated with what I'm telling you.

>>93392433
Except they are. I'm directly addressing your point

>>93392451
No you aren't. This is my point
>Your litmus test is garbage if you include 'vaugley ,or any derivative of, similar.

I then proceeded to make a 'vaguely similar' plot of GF that a 5 year old could do.

>BUT IF THEY CHANGE TO MUCH IT BECOMES FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT
Not important because it is still ((vaguely similar)) and can have comparisons drawn to GF. Also this meaningless point you brought up also applies to OtGW and about a million other shows.

You aren't addressing shit.

>>93392536
I told you, forget about the "vaguely" part. "Sufficiently" similar is what I really meant, I guess.

>>93383563

>given OtgW theme I think it works much better as shorts than full half hour episodes.

I don't know, I feel like we have seen an incomplete story without the comics, I think that it's better with this cut content.

>CN cut it down because of the risk factor. This is the first time they actually soley produce a short series for nothing more than award bait, not because it was going to cost them a shit ton of money to do 18 episodes.

Well, OTGW is indeed a very expensive series to produce if you look at the cast of voices, the quality of scenery, the animation, the music ... so it is not crazy to think that the budget contributed to these cuts, I want to say, Was it necessary to recap the episode of the frogs' boat and make it one along with that of adeleide? It is practically the same risk making 11 episodes to make 10, but it is not production price.

If CN was afraid of risk it is normal to cut certain episodes and modify elements of the story because they are considered too dark, comics for example, tend to show Wirt's failures instead of the successes we see in the cartoon. Fred's story is a little really dark for the poor horse.

I think that these two circumstances sound more realistic than the search for a more artistic version of the work.

>>93392644
>"Sufficiently"
>or any derivative of,
Fuck off. Just make it
>My litmus test is that if a child could make it.
This is fine and would include quite a few shows like The Backyardigans or Peppa Pig. This would not include OtGW and GF.

>>93392696
>This would not include OtGW and GF.
But that's not my argument.

>>93392761
Now I will address you argument. Because it's factually wrong. Their is enough background story and thematic meaning within the entire series of OtGW that a child could not replicate. What makes OtGW OtGW is the sum of ALL it's parts.

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>I watched Frosty the Snowman in the middle of June and couldn't get into it

The only time you will ever get the most out of Over the Guarden Wall is the short window of time between Holoween and Thanksgiving. Any other time it kinda just doesn't work

>>93392815
>Their is enough background story
Not really, and it's almost entirely in the last 2 episodes which I admitted are a bit different.
>thematic meaning
Again, this is the main part of my argument: it's like abstract art, basically. A child wouldn't be able to replicate it exactly, sure, but it would be close enough.

With "thematic meaning" any interpretation is just as valid as any other, supposedly anyways.

>>93392884
But nothing thematically in OtGW is abstract in the slightest. It's all very simple and easy to follow, except for you apparently.

>>93392902
It's so simple and easy that there's almost nothing TO follow. You seem to be missing that.

>>93392936
I really don't want to reiterate what other anons have said before, but just because something is simple and easy doesn't mean it isn't impactful and powerful. It's all about delivery, and OtGW did it amazingly well and surprisingly mature.

>>93392884
You keep shuffling your goalposts around. I'm not the same anon, but your argument that the average child could make something "sufficiently similar" to the story of Over the Garden Wall is facile nonsense. Do you know what your average five-year-old is like? Most of them can't write a full sentence, and that's to say nothing of the task of assembling a coherent narrative. Your average adult would be incapable of writing a story anywhere near as well formed as Over the Garden Wall. They'd never be able to assemble half the relevant motifs used in the series either, nor maintain the thematic consistency (which is not purely a matter of interpretation; it's inherently written into the text).

>>93387012
Because Gravity Falls is owned by Disney who have much more money to spend on advertising, as Gravity Falls had hiatus it is normal that they have spent more on advertising to keep the public interest in it, while OTGW didn't get much publicity because it had to be broadcast in a single month.

In addition to Gravity falls is a series made for children and teenagers to laugh and get excited, (and for the internet dumb to look for secrets in codes that appear in the bottom of the episodes). Without anyone having to think much about it. OTGW is a series that seeks the reflection and analysis of the same story more than the safe marketing of a public of children or adolescents.

However Gravity Falls is a product that is more inclined to be forgotten in the future than OTGW that for its quality, calm rhythm, story, distinction of other series of the cartoon is more inclined to become in a classic of the american animation even if it doesn't enjoy the popularity of other series, as it was in his time Nightmare Before Christmas or The legend of sleepy hollow.

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>>93392866
Holoween?

>>93387012
Gravity Falls got moved to the underperforming garbage network DisneyXD halfway through and never had a consistent schedule. OtGW was not pushed by the corporate machine but still has a better standing in the eyes of critics and the kinds of fans that vote on imdb than GF. Just because you can't buy a vinyl bear decorated like Wirt doesn't mean OtGw is bad.

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>>93362982
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBg8tQvATIA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMW_mJ63uWE

Over the Garden Wall is complicated, sure, but not particularly hard to understand. Congratulations, when media challenged you to think critically you instead decided to go out in public & express your ignorance. Have some eggs from a duck.

op is as stubborn as a mule, can't argue for shit, and has garbage taste. sage and move on