DC Films Bosses Explain Why BATMAN v SUPERMAN And SUICIDE SQUAD

>It was because of Snyder
That's all that needed to be said.

Sure.

I want to like movies with DC heroes in then by default, everything they have to do is be not shit, so I guess they're on the right track now.

>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.

FUCK ALL OF YOU AND YOUR SHITTY TASTE. I LIKED THE DARK TONE.

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.
It was necessary and a 100% high level strategy from Snyder. Not only was it a great movie, it made people yearn for more of the hope and optimism which was given to us near the end. You really think WW would have done as well as it did if it weren't for BvS? JL is also going to play on that want. Snyder is both a master film maker and business man.

>>93341576
>Are you excited about the more light/hopeful tone of the DCEU


I think that's the wrong message to take away from what was just said. If they've learned anything, I hope it's just being true to the motivations and personalities of the characters they are using in the movies.

>>93341642
I did too but true fans know that Superheroes can never be dark cause then that means you hate Superheroes.

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that."
Fuckers didn't learn a thing.

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.
Did they just forget about TDK?
They were just trash movies.

>>93341642
>>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.
>FUCK ALL OF YOU AND YOUR SHITTY TASTE. I LIKED THE DARK TONE.

Same, but that's an oversimplification. What people "didn't respond to" is deconstructions, gen audiences don't want to be challenged. They want a shallow spectacle that ends with big proclamations about 'the power of love and friendship'

Ah well, hopefully they'll let some of the smaller films keep taking risks

>>93341704
>TDK
>dark
lol

I find it poetic that the New 52 was done to kickstart a cinematic universe, yet it took until the New 52 was reverted for the DCEU to get going.
Justice League will probably still suck, but I'm more excited for Aquaman now.

>>93341642
Introducing Jimmy Olsen just so you can kill him off immediately for shock value was pretty stupid.

>>93341666
>Not only was it a great movie, it made people yearn for more of the hope and optimism which was given to us near the end.
People said this after man of steel, Satan.
And after Justice League you'll either say it again, blame Whedon, or pretend it was never on the cards.

>are you excited for Johns cookie cutter bland shit made for children that are triggered by anything a little more mature
Yeah fuck them. They had something special with Snyder, but then they had to ruin it because NOT MUH fanboys and Disneyfied audiences started crying.

>>93341710
>What people "didn't respond to" is deconstructions, gen audiences don't want to be challenged.
I don't usually post in movie threads but I'm being trolled right?

>>93341731
Would have never EVER have known that was supposed to be Jimmy Olsen from the theatrical cut, unless he had a name tag showing for a split second or some stupid shit.

>>93341745
Sadly no.

>>93341642
I would like the tone if they understood what the fuck The Dark Knight was about. But Snyder somehow thought it was all about Jesus

>>93341666
> You really think WW would have done as well as it did if it weren't for BvS? JL is also going to play on that want. Snyder is both a master film maker and business man.
>We were just pretending to be retarded We actually wanted to do a divisive movie!
You don't really think that, do you?

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that
It was also shittily written and made no sense.

So maybe fix that.

>>93341733
>Zack Snyder movies
>"A little more mature"
Man, I remember being 13, what a horrible time.

>>93341733
>>are you excited for Johns cookie cutter bland shit made for children that are triggered by anything a little more mature
>Yeah fuck them. They had something special with Snyder, but then they had to ruin it because NOT MUH fanboys and Disneyfied audiences started crying.

Right on, but I'd give them a little more credit than that. Geoff Johns actually writes pretty adult stories, he just knows how to do so delicately enough to not trigger the snowflakes

Plus all it takes is one Green Lantern-style flop for them to leverage as an excuse to return to mature storytelling

>>93341710
And that's why everyone hated Civil War. Fucking movie had a fakeout and instead of fighting a giant monster or the army of Winter Soldiers Cap and IM started beating the shit out of each other. So meanspirited!

>>93341777
It shouldn't have been divisive. Audiences should have liked both.

>>93341710
>>93341773

Snyder was aiming to do what Nolan did, which in his eyes was a dark version of a popular superhero.
Snyder's just an idiot. He's made bad movies one after the other. He wasn't trying to make a grand statement on humanity with BvS. He used the religious references because in his head it sounds cool, and epic. It's video game tier writing that's right at home in a Bethesda game.
The further DC is from this guy, the better.

I remember when MoS came out and people were blaming Goyer for all the problems in that movie.

>>93341666
Well, no, satan. Obviously BvS being such a shitty trash fire helped Wonder Woman garner a ton of praise for just being good.

>>93341576
>there's nothing to change
>changed suicide squad to a goofy commercial blockbuster to satisfy the fanboys who hated BvS
and in spite of all their problems they still don't know why people like these characters

Batman isn't even the darkest DC character but a movie surrounding him should be on par with the nolan movies.
DC did Suicide Squad badly in response to BvS
expect Justice League to be bad as well

>Joss Whedon is overseeing reshoots on “Justice League” and will write and direct “Batgirl.” How important will he be to the DC cinematic universe going forward?

>Berg: He’s a big part already. We love him. He’s a great partner, collaborator; we want him to be ensconced. We bring people by, have general meetings and talk about comics and their favorite superhero movies. With Joss, he saw the master board, and he saw a “Batgirl” title and he said, “You guys seriously want to do ‘Batgirl’?” And we said, “Absolutely.” He said, “That’s my jam.”

>>93341865
This. A lot of the praise of Wonder Woman is comparative. On it's own it's at best a 6/10 but in comparison to its predecessors people are giving it 2-3 bonus points

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>>93341911
>>93341865
Precisely

>>93341836
but they dodnt because one was a horribly edited horibly written piece of crap

>>93341576
>>93341710
They are telling idiots what they want to hear. That's it, it'd a PR movement. Johns lies all the time and berg is a jew. SS was killed by the editing and you can't hire Snyder and at the same time force him into the pg13 rating, either let him have real control or just don't hire him. Snyder can be defined as uncompromised, you don't ask him to do something and then butcher his movie. The problem is WB.

>>93341911
I'd give it a 7/10. Well cast and acted, good choreography and visuals. The story was simple, but functional. They even balanced Steve Trevor's role with Diana's pretty well, instead of just having her carry the whole film herself.

It wasn't a masterpiece, but it was certainly well done.

>>93341879
At the end of the day the problem is that the guys making (and defending) these movies think there's a general formula and don't recognize that characters are individuals.

So it becomes "you just hate dark movies" when no, you can do a dark Batman story or a cynical Wolverine story or Swamp Thing or Deadman or something. Those characters are better suited for that. They're like 70/30 on the dark light split. But you try and angst up Superman, he's just not that guy. The proportions are different. It's gotta be the other way around. People like their darks dark and their lights light.

It's like laundry, you keep them separate. But I guess no one here does their own laundry so I can see why there's confusion.

>>93341698
This. The dark tone didn't make it shit. The shitty story and direction made it shit.

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>>93341996
>mfw there was a glimpse of a simpler, happier Clark when Lois is worried about their future together and he just hops in the bath with her with all his clothes on

>>93342018
>>93341698
they cant just say "the movie was shit and it's snyder's fault"
hey gotta play the pr game

>>93341733
You say that as if Snyder's movies aren't bland either.

>>93341766
It was literally just an easter egg that they didn't even end up going through with bc they knew how many manbaby tears the fragile would shed

They knew they wouldn't be using the character so they figured why not make a cute reference to the character and his Supes signal, and then they even were nice enough to hide it in the director's cut so the manchildren didn't get MAD

>>93341836
>>>93341777
>It shouldn't have been divisive. Audiences should have liked both.
Absolutely

>>93341901
Just what Batgirl needed, more quips.

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>>93341731
>he thinks DC killed off a CIA agent

>>93342085
if they arent going to use the character why have him just to kill him off?

>>93341698
>>93341704
this. the dark tone isnt the problem
stop casting jesse eisenberg
stop jamming characters into 10 second scenes
stop giving henry cavill garbage lines
stop batman from killing people
stop jamming contrived plot devices in in order to do a half ass version of a famous story
stop cutting half the film out of your theatrical releases
stop taking creative control from your directors and just let them tell a story

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>>93341576
See /co/ even DC is saying "Make Mine Marvel" better join the winning side before it's too late

>>93341642

The dark wasn't the problem. It was too long, boring at times, and Lois and Lex were fucking unbearabable.

Being 'dark' was the least of its problems.

>>93341698
>>93342018
I agree, the tone was not the problem. I love dark superhero movies more than light tone ones. BvS was bad because it had shitty editing, boring/unlikable characters and awful setups for future movies (the retarded mail cameos, all those nonsensical dream sequences, doing the death of Superman in the 2nd movie etc.). This guy explains it pretty well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Cy_Qlh7VM

>>93342052
Yeah but it was just like your image. I felt like a huge guy that had to squint at a tiny ass glimmer of something positive. The reverse is better because then it's "holy shit Superman is angsting or struggling that means shit has gotten real"

But when it's his default it just leads to apathy.

It kind of makes me wonder if Snyder even paid attention to the stuff he adapted in the past because a huge part of 300 was "Xerxes is this invincible figure, making him bleed and look weak is a huge deal and a symbolic victory" but then you've got Superman and he can't seem to apply that same logic.

>>93342120
Zack Snyder is an edgy, bitter asshole.

>>93342085
They didn't hide shit, they just cut the fat which just happened to have his introduction in

His name was still in the credits, that's how people found out

Also
>lol, wouldn't it be funny if we took this character just for the sake of murdering him?

Pkus no, it wasn't "just an easter egg", Snyder specifically said he wanted to use him to send out the message "things are going to get serious, not your daddy's comics!" and such

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>>93342129
>better join the winning side before it's too late

>>93342120
>>>93342085 (You)
>if they arent going to use the character why have him just to kill him off?

As an Easter Egg or a tip of the hat to the character

Just like Fin Fang Foom and the OG Human Torch showing up for a few frames in the MCU

If they really wanted to bring him back anyway, they easily could just like the MCU did w/ the Infinity Gauntlet and Adam Warlock, both of which they made quick references to and later decided to use separately

>>93342177
So what is Amy's drug of choice? You can tell she's into something.

>>93342230
Cocaine. That's what all film producers have.

>>93342177
She had the good sense to join up and soon Fox will too and with DC copying based Marvel and failing horribly we will dominate movies just like we do comics and everything else... well dominate more than we already do

>>93342149
That just covers one angle of the flaws. There are so many that I could post probably a dozen deconstructions taking different issues with it. But Wisecrack is USUALLY good and I think they do a good one on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467ehoaGDaE

>>93341729
bro, c'mon. I know ledger is "ew le edge fag"s favorite joker but it's even more "ew le edge fag" to act as if that movie isn't dark.

This isn't /tv/ we aren't comparing it to fucking snuff flicks like those fake cannibal documentaries.

>>93342149
>he thinks the dream sequences were just set ups for other movies


how does it feel to be dumb?

>>93341609
No, it was because of Nolan. They let Snyder shit on everything because Nolan's success told them it makes money.

>>93341576
The actual problem is that they're all poorly constructed films full of boring non-characters.

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>>93342085
>>93342214
>make a cute easter egg referencing a character
>by just using the character

i liked that Ant-Man easter egg in civil war as well.

>>93341666
>it made people yearn for more of the hope and optimism which was given to us near the end

Making people wish this horrible nightmare that is the DCEU would just end already is not the same as giving people a taste for hope and optimism.

But nice try, Satan.

>>93341642
This. The dark tone wasn't the problem. Wonder Woman showed you can still have a good movie while including dark subject matter.

>>93342214
>Fin Fang Foom and the OG Human Torch showing up for a few frames
Wait what?

>>93341576
>but where the story fell down was on narrative

Woaw.

Same deal with MOS : so, why have you guys waited to take lessons ??

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark
That is the smallest issue in a mountain of issues.

And even then I wouldn't say dark is necessarily a problem. Its the way everything is executed that was horrible, from the script to the direction.

>>93342370
And all they had to do was make light of them

>>93341576
>Why BATMAN v SUPERMAN And SUICIDE SQUAD Didn't Work

How they didn't work? They made lot of money with those shows, lot of critics praised BvS and SS got an Oscar.

>>93341576
> Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.


In no way is he saying BvS didnt work, he is just saying critics didnt like the tone. Which is obvious. He is basically saying the sky is blue.
Good job being retarded OP.

>>93342296
No prison rape, so it's not dark.

>>93342409
>critics praised BvS
factually incorrect

>>93342409
The headline is sensationalist, dont listen to the shill. He is literally just talking about why most critics didnt like them.

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>>93341666
>BvS is good because it was so shitty, it made people pine for not shitty movies, making it all the more sweeter when we eventually get not shitty movies.
Thats what you just said. Fuck you, blatant falseflagger.

>>93341704
To be fair, I have noticed in the last couple of years since TDKR more people being critical of Nolan's trilogy for not being 'fun'.

>>93342401
He is talking about Skwad you idiot, which has little to do with the teams behind MoS or BvS really.

>>93342328
Futher Synder didn't have the same certain something that Nolan did. Nolan wrote great story and dialogue. Nearly every line could be used as a quote. Synder? Forgettable most of the time. Deadshot had a few good lines. But otherwise forgettable.

>>93342436
nah, factually there were some critics that praised it.

>>93342409
>They made lot of money with those shows
True, but they want critical acclaim as well.

>lot of critics praised BvS
No, they didn't.

>and SS got an Oscar.
For best make-up.

>>93342466
Armond White praised it.

Thats all you need to know, shitposter.

>>93342395
The John Hammond Human Torch is in the world's fair expo they go to before Bucky ships out. Don't know where Fin Fang Foom is

Either way they didn't show either of those getting destroyed so it's not really comparable and I'm not sure why we're talking about it.

>>93342461
>Deadshot

Snyder had nothing to do with Squad at all, except for directing a single scene with Flash, and he hasnt written any of these movies except WW.


I can't believe they let idiots like you near a keyboard.

>>93342440
If most critics didn't like them, then by definition they didn't work.

>>93342409
>lot of critics praised BvS
*twatter accounts

>>93342483
Well if they let you on then the bar must be pretty low huh?

>>93342466
I meant to include the lots parts. it wasnt lots of critics

>>93342442
It's because TDKR is on tv more than TDK and so they consistently tune into a half-completed tv-edited version of the worst one in the trilogy.

IMO Begins is the only one that holds up to a decade of viewing. I fucking love that movie still. TDK is great but I skip right through a lot of it if I can and get to the highlights. After the hospital blows up it's pretty much over.

>>93342477
>stating a fact is shitposting now

wew lad

>>93342477
Armond White praised No Country for Old Men too. So I guess thats a bad movie now?

If thought Superman represented hope and optimism. I guess not. Fuck you.

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>>93342508

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>>93342395
>>>93342214 (You)
>>Fin Fang Foom and the OG Human Torch showing up for a few frames
>Wait what?

Pic related

Foom showed up on a billboard in Iron Man

Does it preclude them from appearing in the universe later on? Not really, see the infinity gauntlet and adam warlock

Does it 'ruin' them? Lmfao no, it's a quick reference for the fans to material they don't think they'll ever get to

People only got pissy about Jimmy bc they're lemmings and the narrative around the film was bad, nobody on earth cared that they never planned to use him in the first place

>>93342401
WB didn't think they have to.
They thought "We've got the the biggest names in the game. We don't need to put in effort; they'll print money on their own"

>>93342477

I wonder whether he writes his reviews before or after seeing other reviews. The guy unerringly marches against general opinion. It does work out well when you hate a well-received movie - in those situations you can read his reviews and everything seems to make sense.

>>93341576
>So many autistic DCEU and company wars thread in one day.
It's like an early Christmas. I fucking love how autistic anons on /tv/ and /co/ get over this shit, it's hilarious.

>>93341576
>We could do better. Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.

Uggh. The movie wasn't bad because it was dark. It was bad because it was dumb.

If they turn off the dark but don't turn off the dumb, we'll just get Green Lantern again.

>>93342548
they got pissy because snyder had him shot in the head

>>93342548
There is a stark contrast between that and brutally killing a longtime character such as Jimmy Olsen for what amounts to a cheap gag.

But carry on.

>>93342576
Tomato, tomato

>>93342500
thats not true at all anon, critics, especially today, dont mean anything on whether or not a movie worked.


2001: A Space Odyssey had really mixed reviews when it first came out and it most definitely works.


Critics get it wrong all the time.


http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2015/15-great-movies-that-the-critics-got-wrong/


https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/gallery/40-blockbuster-movies-that-the-critics-got-wrong/ss-AAj9zUT#image=2
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a52344/movie-critics-on-their-mistakes/

>>93342508
>is factually wrong
>n-no you!!

wow, you really showed me!

>>93342548
>People only got pissy about Jimmy bc they're lemmings and the narrative around the film was bad, nobody on earth cared that they never planned to use him in the first place
I care because while Jimmy Olsen can be kind of annoying he serves a couple important purposes in the narrative. First, he's our barometer character for how aspirational Superman is. When Jimmy loses faith in Superman, we know we're in an Injustice style timeline where things have gone off the rails. Second, he's a human tie and friend to Superman, which this one sorely needs as his only apparent ties to humanity are a girlfriend and adoptive mother. There's no platonic friendship in his life and that platonic friendship is representative of his greater connection to humanity.

>>93342139

This. This so much.

I don't really think the suits understand things like narrative, theme, and character. They just think of movies in terms of brand identities. "It's gotta be dark! Wait, no, that's not working, it's gotta be light! Maybe it needs more of a romantic subplot? No, actually the kids don't like that, downplay the love interest! Or, maybe they want to see more outer space sci-fi? Or maybe it's gotta be grounded? Fuck, what do you want?"

We want a good movie. All the stylistic choices should be made according to which ones serve the story and themes you're trying to tell. There's no secret formula of marketable elements that you just stir into a pot to make a good movie.

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>>93342624
> There's no platonic friendship in his life

But thats just not true. We see Pete Ross and him become friends, after he saves Pete and then Pete helps him up after he is bullied. And Ross and Lana even come to Clark's funeral. The movie just doesn't focus on them because thats not the story they are telling.


Also Lois has ALWAYS been Superman's primary connection to Earth.

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>>93341576
>Batman vs Superman failed because it was too dark

Wow they learned nothing. You know what else was "dark"? The Dark Night, and people fucking LOVE that DC movie. It's almost like it works if you do it well. You know, make Batman still act and behave like Batman, have a good villain, a good plot, etc.

Mind fuck, I know.

>>93342575
Good people WANT Green Lantern


Especially now that we've seen how incompetent DC is at trying other kinds of movies

>>93342603
They do. But it's not just critics

>>93342674
I had to be told that was Lana after the fact, and I remember Pete as being one of the people that bullied him more than anything else because they focused on that more. Clark having friends and ties was not the story they were telling.

Clark being an alienated and apart from humanity is practically the core theme of these movies.

>>93342085
>It was literally just an easter egg that they didn't even end up going through with bc they knew how many manbaby tears the fragile would shed
So you admit it's an easter egg but you also it would make manbaby tears shed? Ultimately, it just comes down to "why did this character have to be Jimmy Olsen at all?"

>>93342693
Imagine not liking Lex Jr...

I legitimately don't understand how people can defend Snyder.

He doesn't understand the character of Superman at a base level. It's fine if you want to do a darker story, but at the end of the day, Superman is still an optimistic character. I don't want to have a Superman threatening to break someone into a million pieces. That's not Superman. The one montage of him saving people in the movie is played as the saddest scene ever, and it's awful.

I want my Superman to smile.

>>93341576
>We could do better. Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that.
It just needed to be done better, but id rather this then following MCU formula

>>93341576
>(((Berg)))

>>93342749
I'll tell you why

>Interestingly enough, Snyder originally wanted Jesse Eisenberg to play the character, noting they initially wanted to shock the audience with Olsen's sudden exit."I thought, if it were Jesse Eisenberg and he got out and he goes, 'I’m Jimmy Olsen,' you'd be like, oh my God, we’re gonna have Jimmy Olsen in the whole movie, right?'" the director said. "And then if he got shot, you’d just be like, ‘What!? You can’t do that.'"

Literally shock value. Innocent easter egg my ass

>>93342674
>Lois had always been Clark's connection to Earth.
And here I thought it was the way his parents raised. Fuck off cloisfag

>>93342565
>So many autistic DCEU and company wars thread in one day.
Wonder what's with that. Is homecumming getting good reviews somewhere?

>>93341576

Why do these people never just watch actual reviews of their movies? Nobody ever complains about the tone, all complaints are directed towards the writing, and the editing. If you sell your movie as "Batman Vs. Superman" then that conflict should be at the center of the movie. Instead, the characters don't even really have any reason to fight except a very contrived scheme concocted by a third party.

>>93342774
Too much grinning and you end up with the MCU. BVS was just a horrible tedious movie. Having Superman smile all the way through wouldn't have helped. They need different people making his movies.

>>93342774
Anon, get ready for a lot of replies that Superman smiles in those movies.

>>93342476
But it's an Oscar. Like it or not, the DCEU has an Oscar.

>>93342804
That's what I don't get
Like you talk to these people and Captain America wearing a cloth costume to do USO shows is disrespectful to the character and proves the movie doesn't take itself seriously and it's a big joke.

But shooting Jimmy Olsen in the face for lulz? That's a "cute easter egg".

>>93342816
I don't know, I'm too busy laughing in the DCEU and company war threads.

>>93342739

>Clark being an alienated and apart from humanity is practically the core theme of these movies.

And not a story people want with Superman.

>>93342834
And the make-up was good! Story and thus overall movie, not so much!

>>93342804
Yea Snyder thought it would be funny.

>>93342817
>>>93341576 (OP)
>Why do these people never just watch actual reviews of their movies? Nobody ever complains about the tone, all complaints are directed towards the writing, and the editing. If you sell your movie as "Batman Vs. Superman" then that conflict should be at the center of the movie. Instead, the characters don't even really have any reason to fight except a very contrived scheme concocted by a third party.

Well that can't be it bc Civil War was a hit with these people and that scheme was even more contrived by an even less relevant 3rd party
>>93342834
>>>93342476
>But it's an Oscar. Like it or not, the DCEU has an Oscar.

MCU will probably get one by 2020 to be fair

>>93342405
Except it didn't, it didn't show graphic stuff or stuff that couldn't be shown on a PG-13 movie but we got shown a lot of bad stuff that happens in wars.

Soldiers with PTSD, mutilations, Diana wanting to help all civilians but finding that she couldn't, the gas bomb that killed the village she was dancing in a night before, etc...

It took it more serious than First Avenger at least.

>>93342834
You're right and as long as when we say, "the DCEU has an Oscar", we make sure to use that in context for "what the Oscar is actually for" and not "since they have an Oscar, that means they're immune from being called bad" then we're great!

>>93342816
Not that i know. But reviews start dropping a week before release, which is usually a good sign

>>93342880
The third act was trash. Thor II level trash.

>>93342853
Someone should make a bingo.

>>93342739
they showed him working at ihop more than they showed him "bullying" clark, which happened before he saved his entire class' life.

>>93342857
I never said it was. Superman is at heart a naive and optimistic humanist. These movies don't have that. If anything they're the exact opposite of that.

Which again, works for certain characters. It's a good fit for Batman. That's why Superman and Batman are a good complements to each other. Here though? No contrast, no complement.

It's amazing that even Jeph Loeb could get this right but not Goyer and Terrio,

>>93342890
Explain how CW was contrived

>>93342914
That's only when the studio has seen said reviews and deems it safe to release of course.

>>93342774
>He doesn't understand the character of Superman at a base level.
neither do you, apparently.

>>93342923
Someone should, it would make the arguing even more fun for me to read.

>>93342880
Yeah, but that is irrelevant. When people look for achievements they don't look at the movie (unless they really like movies) they look at money and awards. SS made a ton and has an Oscar. The DCEU won an Oscar after only 3 movies.

It might be slightly, but that Oscar will do quite a bit of good for the DCEU.

>>93342693
>dark
eh, eh, sorta
It had dark elements, sure, but the outcome was bright
Hero defeats villain, citizens stay good, one guy gone through hell goes evil, but the hero foils that evil plot too, with the only "bad" outcome being that a hero was already vigilante, is hunted down more aggressively.

Meanwhile, supes dies after being unable to handle being a hero.

>>93342905
That is irrelevant. Call it bad as much as you want... it has a fucking Oscar.

>>93342927
Saving his entire classes life on the bus?
That happens before the ihop scene. Thats in the second act after Zod shows up.
And wasn't Pete one of the guys bullying him on the bus before that crash?

>>93341576

the world wasn't ready.

>>93342951
In what way it will? The Oscars hit an all time low this year in ratings, people don't care all that much. The DCEU movies will keep making money because they feature such big and important characters, not because Robbie's make-up looked really good under the rain that one time

>>93342986
Occupied seats, boy.

>>93342941
People think the accords were a part of Zemo's plan rather than a parallel plot thread.

Zemo's plan was literally just
>Read SHIELD documents Natasha leaked onto the internet in Winter Soldier
>Find dirt that will drive a wedge in the Avengers
>Show them that dirt to sow discord.

Everything else is ultimately unrelated to his plan, but rather to the parallel story about Tony's and Steve's diverging character developments.

>>93341576
>Batman v. Superman was tonally dark. People didn’t respond to that."
>"Most of the DC Universe is known as being a hopeful and optimistic place."
So basically "I blame batman".

I can accept that.

Lets hope they send batman and his shitty crew to their own earth

>>93342951
It's a make-up oscar, bro. People don't care.

Only to core three really matter, with the other big four carrying a strong but lesser weight.

>>93342966
Many bad movies get Oscars. The Grinch comes to mind. What does it matter?

>>93342969
I literally can't decipher this post. What are you saying in response to my post?

Yes he saves his class from drowning when the bus hits the water

yes that happens before ihop

Lois visits pete at ihop, clark later fights in front of ihop.

I didn't disupute pete "bullying" him before clark saved his life.

>>93341576

>tonally dark

See if it was only a batman film then OK

But superman has never been dark cause he's always been the beacon of hope

But fuck Snyder and his films

>>93342890
>MCU will probably get one by 2020 to be fair

Wonder what the narrative will shift towards.

"The DCEU got one first!", I imagine.

WW is the best DCEU film and even then it's decidedly average when judged on its own merits. If your best flim is average, you should stop while you are ahead. JL is going to be a dumpster fire disaster what with the reshoots and director changes.

>>93342931
Yep and doesn't help that Batman is clearly psychotic in that film.

The hearing could have turned things around really. Let him give a Truth Justice and the American way or whatever speech and show the world who Superman is. Therefore giving Luther a reason to trigger the bomb because he sees he's losing the argument.

And above all fix his reaction for fuck sakes.

His reaction to a room full of people dying shouldn't be like he just smelled a fart in an elevator.

That's when he should be shocked and then enraged over the taking of so much innocent life.

>>93343047
>>93342927
>which happened before he saved his entire class' life

you said the ihop thing happened before he saved his classmates' lives. Did you typo and mean after?

>>93343068
>Yep and doesn't help that Batman is clearly psychotic in that film.
To be honest, Superman might've been losing his mind in BvS too when he was hallucinating his pa on the mountains.

>>93342328

THIS.

Batman can work as grimdark.

Superman and Harley Quinn do not.

All Cape movies suck. I just hope they all fail so they don't ruin my comic books any more

>>93343008
>Everything else is ultimately unrelated to his plan, but rather to the parallel story about Tony's and Steve's diverging character developments.

this, but also to show that tony only thinks he's right because he thinks with his balls/gut/emotions 24/7 despite being a brain. Steve only thinks he's right because he thinks as if he's in an idealistic world that died when he went into the ice. My only problem is that neither is proven right or wrong and with a premise like that one has to be.

Since cap is a product of a by-gone era the current-day anti-accord reasoning isn't really well-represented.

>>93341733
>Snyder
>mature

>>93343067
>WW is the best DCEU film

Lmfao, found the mouthbreather

>>93343091
That is not what that says anon. You're misreading.

It's okay to just say, "I misread."

>>93342285
That video was actually better than I thought it would be.

>>93343053
Needed to do the classic contrast. All scenes with Superman are in Daylight Batman in Night and depending on who's addressing whom in meeting scenes of Sunrise or Sunset.

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>>93341710
>BvS was a smart deconstruction capable of challenging audiences
BvS is about as deep as a kiddie pool.

>>93343164
Okay I see what you were trying to say now. I wasn't parsing the run on sentence well. You're saying he was Clark's friend after Clark saved his life on the bus, right?

Fair enough. We just don't see really any of it.

>>93343208
he didn't say that. And this is the main problem with BvS detractors and why every thread is jut chock full of autism. He simply said it was a deconstruction and that people don't want that. He didn't once say it was smart or that it was actually capable of challenging anyone. Yet immediately you jump to being an asshole about your opinion of a movie differing from an opinion the person you're responding to didn't even share.

>>93341848
>It's video game tier writing that's right at home in a Bethesda game.
I'm not so harsh on Snyder, but this hits the nail on the head. The stories in his movies serve the imagery, rather than the other way around. So what we get mostly are movies that look great in trailers, but aren't all that pleasant to sit through in a theater.

I actually enjoyed Watchmen, 300, and Dawn of the Dead. But in BvS we got less of his good moviemaking instincts and more of the kind that drove Sucker Punch.

>>93341710

Or they just didn't want an incomprehensible mess of a film. Either/or.

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>>93343273
>he didn't say that.
>"What people 'didn't respond to' is deconstructions, gen audiences don't want to be challenged"
You're not very bright, anon.

>>93343120
To me it makes sense if you consider where they started. I disagree on your interpretation of Steve tho.

With Tony, he starts off as the lose cannon flipping off senators and being like this libertarian wet dream where he and only he knows best and can rule his own life. But then when shit hits the fan and he has to actually accept responsibility for fucking up, he runs under the apron of authority. He effectively switches places with Steve.

Steve on the other hand is literally all about being a solider at first and being a part of the group; but then he gets jaded when he realizes that the system is capable of shitty behavior and so he strikes out on his own.
The context of him being anti-accords makes sense when you consider that. Why would he blindly trust the UN when the last international peace keeping organization he put his faith in turned out to be double nazis that rendered all his sacrifices meaningless?

Also, why does the premise require one to be right? If anything I'd say it's better here than in BvS where it's just a countdown to Bruce realizing he was an asshole. It's especially egregious (to me at least) because they put a lot of effort into hyping the ideological conflict, which by the end of the movie just goes "Well Batman was just a crazy dick. Conflict over"

>>93343208
>>BvS was a smart deconstruction capable of challenging audiences
>BvS is about as deep as a kiddie pool.

Easily the deepest comic book movie of the last 5 years, politically, philosophically, and character-wise

Can't even think of another that even tries

Can you?

>>93343280
>actually enjoyed Watchmen, 300, and Dawn of the Dead. But in BvS we got less of his good moviemaking instincts and more of the kind that drove Sucker Punch.

Snyder works best when he's got some source material to follow reasonably closely. With Sucker Punch there wasn't anything restraining him from going full Snyder and the movie turned out gorgeous but awful. BVS repeats the mistake. MoS was actually okay (not sure I'd call it good but it was watchable) so I can only assume that other people had an influence over it.

>>93341576
>Suicide Squad had great characterization
The hell it did. Boomerang, Katana, and Croc hardly got any screen time

>>93342283
And she's already tearing Marvel down accidentally

>>93342963
Your glossing over a lot, man. Batman's turned into a wanted criminal, his entire reputation has been tarnished for all except Gordon and Robin. The Joker took everything from him

The one man who could steer the psyche of Gotham in the right direction was corrupted and killed. The hero doesn't "foil" the plot, he covers it up, so the citizens of Gotham can breathe easy under a lie for several years

If you think the only bad outcome is Batman being hunted by the police, you didn't actually watch the movie. Or you're just flimsily cherrypicking

>>93343427
I'm still mad they didn't even bother to explain where the heck Katana ended up

>>93343319
>Also, why does the premise require one to be right?

Because who is treated as being in the right going forward? Will the state-sanctioned team not go after the non-sanctioned team? If they don't touch on that then it makes that whole storyline fall to pieces.

Someone needs to be right in that. Otherwise it was never a problem. if the state-sanctioned team wont catch the non-sanctioned do they really agree with the accords?

Otherwise we kind of agree on Cap. I get why he (emphasized) personally disagrees with the accord but its still very personal to him and related to to cap 2 (which is why I love his trilogy and think this being called avengers 2.5 is a disservice).

But that just means that we see that side of the debate through his eyes and his only. Where as the pro-accords were given Tony's selfish-guilt motivations as well as the state's view.

>>93342174
>Snyder specifically said he wanted to use him to send out the message "things are going to get serious, not your daddy's comics!" and such

do you think Batfleck got raped in prison in the Snyderverse?

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>>93343374
saying it's the "deepest comic book movie in the last five years" is like saying that Shaq is the whitest man in a room full of niggas like this

I also like how you limited it to just the last five years so films with some actual subtext like Super or Watchmen (as flawed as the interpretation is) don't qualify.

Thing is you forgot about animated movies, and Superman v The Elite is a far better deconstruction and commentary than BvS could every hope to be. It's a competently made and enjoyable movie, to boot.

>>93343374
This meme has never been funny. Stop it

>>93343486
Gives "you will bleed" a whole new meaning

>>93341642
They're sticking to the point that it was meant to be dark. Atleast they're not trying to make one movie the fucking same. Even if it was shit, would you say that Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were alike?

>>93341576
I'm really glad that WB is actually starting to listen to criticism now. Maybe now we'll get a DCEU worth a shit.

>>93343374
Make it the past 10 years and that's definitely not true - Watchmen would be my pick.

I may like his Watchmen adaptation, but BVS is still terrible. Snyder needs to vary his approach to fit different things.

>>93343490
>saying it's the "deepest comic book movie in the last five years" is like saying that Shaq is the whitest man in a room full of niggas like this
>I also like how you limited it to just the last five years so films with some actual subtext like Super or Watchmen (as flawed as the interpretation is) don't qualify

Sure, but it's deeper than the dozens of other comic flicks that came out in that interval, so it's misleading to characterize it as shallow when it's actually notable for having more depth than any of its immediate peers

>Thing is you forgot about animated movies, and Superman v The Elite is a far better deconstruction and commentary than BvS could every hope to be. It's a competently made and enjoyable movie, to boot.

I agree, but that was 5 years and 8 days ago :P

>>93341766
>>93341731
>it was just an easter egg!
>it's not really jimmy!
That you think the character's name matters at all speaks volumes.

No, anon. The issue is beginning a Superman film with a whole rescue scene telegraphed, then pulling the rug out from under the audience and letting literally everyone but Lois die.

It casts a dark shadow over the whole movie and establishes Superman as selfish and needlessly destructive.

The core of a VS movie is battling ideologies. Dark vs light, kill vs no-kill, authoritarian vs libertarian, that kind of shit.

Superman and Batman are both selfish violent authoritarians in this movie unconcerned with helping anyone.

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>>93343621
>it's deeper than <these films with 0 depth>
That's not saying anything, anon.

>>93343629
>Superman as selfish
>unconcerned with helping anyone

What movie did this kid watch?

>>93343704
Batman v Superman

I wouldn't recommend it, it's a stinker.

Superman just kinda stands there as the capitol building explodes, it's almost funny.

>>93343680
Neither is saying
>It's not as deep as this

>>93343680
>>it's deeper than <these films with 0 depth>
>That's not saying anything, anon.

Yes it is when the point being argued is whether its successors should take direction from those films with zero depth lol

Stick to at least having some ambition imo

>>93343704
The movie where Snyderfags argue it's ok for Supes not to help everyone like Jimmy and the natives because "he shouldn't get political"

>>93343621
>Sure, but it's deeper than the dozens of other comic flicks that came out in that interval
It really isn't.

>>93343789
It certainly pretends to be

But that's the thing about stupid people (and movies): they can only pretend to have depth, and that's worse than just admitting you're shallow.

>>93343727
>Batman v Superman
>I wouldn't recommend it, it's a stinker.
>Superman just kinda stands there as the capitol building explodes, it's almost funny.

Right, he couldn't stop the bomb because he wasn't looking for it, causing him to confront his naive optimism and perhaps unwarranted faith in the goodness of those around him (which is ultimately affirmed, as the movie is very hopeful thematically)

Clearly that was over your head and you'd rather he fly around the world real fast and 'turn back time', eh simpleton?

>>93343809
>Clearly that was over your head and you'd rather he fly around the world real fast and 'turn back time'

It'd be hilarious if every movie featuring Superman got a Richard Donner cut, with this happening at the end.

>>93343473
>Where as the pro-accords were given Tony's selfish-guilt motivations as well as the state's view.
Yeah but look who the represenatitive of the state is. It's Thunderbolt Ross, the guy that lead to the creation of the Abomination and is eager to get his hands on the Hulk to weaponize him. Notice he shows the violence in Harlem as proof he needs to be control but doesn't ever mention the fact that he ultimately caused that problem in the first place?

That's why I think if you have to pick a side, (and I guess you can so long as there's an admission that both had cogent points) they pretty much showed that the accords side was in the wrong right there. Their spokesmen were hypocrites.

>>93343787
Lmao as if comics Supes would depose Assad or ever get involved in tribal skirmishes

Drawing attention to those limitations instead of glossing over them is actually interesting

>>93342774
they made Hyperion, not Superman

>>93343374
Winter Soldier you faggot.

>>93343809
Too much of the defense of this movie is "people failed because they couldn't do better or try".
Batman can't realize Superman is human because he's not looking to. Superman can't find/save his mom on his own because he can't use his senses like that .Can't move real fast and keep a bomb from going off because wasn't looking .Can't save his dad from a tornado because it'll cause world war 3.

Nobody likes impotent heroes that can't do things.

>>93343809
>Right, he couldn't stop the bomb because he wasn't looking for it
Which doesn't make any sense to anyone who knows Superman's power set, but hey, why would that matter to anyone?

>causing him to confront his naive optimism
lol wat? I'm sorry, at what point in either movie would any sane person call Clark an optimist? I am genuinely interested to know what you think portrays this.

>and faith in the goodness of those around him
Again, what in the shit are you talking about?

You realize that scenes you pretend happened don't count, right?

>>93343856
>Drawing attention to those limitations instead of glossing over them
Which is which?
Because like, glossing over them to me is saying "he doesn't want to get involved so he doesn't". Actually drawing attention to those limitations are those scenes in Peace On Earth where Kim Jong Il threatens to kill his civilians if Superman shows up, or the bit where he takes people's guns away so they just start sharpening sticks and throwing rocks at each other.

>>93342833
I don't want him to only smile when Lois is around, and definitely not when he's standing in the ashes of Metropolis, kissing her.
>>93342948
Please then, enlighten me

>>93343144
MoS and BvS are shit films with no redeeming qualities. Try to list them if you can.

>>93343926
He saved the entire planet in both films he was in though

He's hardly impotent, but it's a hell of a lot more interesting to explore such a powerful being's limitations than it is to have him thwarting zany real estate schemes imo

Him having philosophical struggles about whether cynicism is more useful than hope - whether regarding everyone with suspicion would save lives, like at the capital - is pretty great stuff

Even if you don't feel like it was executed as you would have liked, you have to admit it has more depth than bland 'arrogant hero learns humility' etiquette lessons like we see beaten to death in Iron Man, Thor, Dr. Strange, etc

It did not work because the characters sucked and were not likable and the plot made no sense
>The opening scene gives Batman a perfectly good reason to want to kill superman
>Even the justification he could kill us all if he turns bad no matter how unlikely is a pretty good reason and Affleck gives it well
>But no it needs two hours to set up a fight that Lex crudely forces that everyone realizes could easily be resolved with a few sentences
>Actually gets resolved with a word
>Movie should have had been more about batman planning to fight superman or their actually ideological differences
>Superman isnt even really that ideologically different from batman because he barely buys into the save everyone heroics and often wonders if it is worth it
>Basically Superman isnt really superman. Hes just a guy who does some of the things superman would do because he feels he has to sometimes
>Every single monologue was just pointless and stupid. Pa Kent basically just tells Superman that being him is pointless and he should get married.
>Once again there seems to be no real great consequence to Superman being Superman beyond some time spent so Pa Kent's rants dont make much sense
>In the end we just get a film of characters acting in stupid nonsensical ways mostly because they are supposed to act that way for the plot, which is weird because the plot isnt really that necessary anyways
The annoying part is it ignores parts that legitimately worked because its clear the people making it did not know the what did work
>The idea of Superman fighting terrorist is interesting
>Ben Affleck played a good batman despite being in a poorly written movie
>Henry Cavill does look like a really good superman
>Superman's attachment to America is always interesting and the idea of a state funeral for superman was cool. Made me wish we got to see Superman be an all American hero more
There are other things but I would have to watch again

>>93344033
MoS had its moments, BvS is an irredeemable piece of shit though.

>>93341710

There's a place for that and characters which are the correct vehicle. Swamp Thing or The Doom Patrol would be better suited to handle darker themes and tones. Nobody wants to see Superman act like a sad sack for two films.

>>93344098
>He saved the entire planet in both films he was in though
The world's too big. Make it small.
>He's hardly impotent, but it's a hell of a lot more interesting to explore such a powerful being's limitations than it is to have him thwarting zany real estate schemes imo
Not when it means his failures are from a lack of trying or due to contrivances.
>
Even if you don't feel like it was executed as you would have liked, you have to admit it has more depth than bland 'arrogant hero learns humility' etiquette lessons like we see beaten to death in Iron Man, Thor, Dr. Strange, etc
I don't, really. Its hard to find a guy choosing not to save his dad deep when the only reason he doesn't is a "what if" that isn't even fulfilled in that movie.

>>93341576
Fuck everyone who shits on them, I loved BvS and enjoyed SS

>>93343856
I know what it means for him not to get political. It's not him watching over a dangerous situation only to let everyone involved die except his girlfriend, which he greets with a smirk after a man's brains were blown out in front of her

That whole situation was so tone deaf

AND, now that i remember, it was the ultimate proof Snyderfags literally make shit up to justify these movies with headcanons.

The black lady went to court to accuse Superman of killing the villagers. The anons/audience reaction was that it didn't make sense, because why would Superman shoot a bunch of people?
So the fanboys came in and started screaming that everyone was stupid for not realizing that the lady meant Supes FIGURATIVELY killed the villagers, because he created a power struggle ny intervening.
But then the extended cut came out, and the additional scenes proved that yes, the lady literally meant Supes killed those people because Lex's men burned the corpses to make it seem so (which is still dumb because any medic could determine bullets did the job, but that's another point)

>>93341666
>You really think WW would have done as well as it did if it weren't for BvS?

Funny because that is part of the reason most here and on /tv/ thought it would fail. If WW was like BvS and was critically savaged the DCEU would be dead

>>93344173
Well, that's like your opinion, man.
No one has to care about what you say.

>>93344149
Or hell, you want to do a superhero story based around an alien walking among us and struggling to fit in then why not Martian Manhunter?

Oh wait, because Goyer thinks only nerdy virgins know who that is.

You know things are fucked when Max Landis of all people manages to get closer to the mark.

>>93342177
haterfull, rat-faced kike

>>93343809
Him not stopping the bomb isn't the problem its him not doing anything to help out with the aftermath
He could
>Blow out fires
>Pick up the rubble and go through it
>Scan the crowd for more bombs make sure there are no more active threats
>So literally anything to the terrified public that just watched him walk out of the building where their congress was blown up
>Explain what happened
>Or literally done anything other than just fly away
It doesnt help he only looks mildly annoyed at having missed the bomb, not devastated at watching the government of the people and country he trusted be obliterated as part of a false flag. A naive optimist usually responds more to that

>>93341576
Zack Snyder is the Rob Liefeld of film making.

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>>93342409
>lot of critics praised BvS and SS got an Oscar.

>>93341865
BvS wasn't normie friendly since it was for comic fans. Clearly you're a casual.

>>93341815
>Geoff Johns actually writes pretty adult stories
Nah, he only writes either adolescent edgy bullshit or convoluted nostalgic bullshit. He can't write adult stories

>>93342466
some anons shitposting in /tv/ about "kino" doesn't count as critics

>>93343374
>Deep
I hate this stupidity. Someone trying to make something deep doesn't make it good. i can cram a book with religion and politics and it still suck.

>Love Man of Steel.
>Love Batman v Superman
>Loved Wonder Woman until the last 30 minutes.
>Meh on Suicide Squad.

>>93343931
>>Right, he couldn't stop the bomb because he wasn't looking for it
>Which doesn't make any sense to anyone who knows Superman's power set, but hey, why would that matter to anyone?

What on Earth are you talking about? His x-ray vision is always something he turns on and off, he wasn't sweeping for a bomb because he thinks of people as good and doesn't regard everyone he encounters with suspicion

>>causing him to confront his naive optimism
>lol wat? I'm sorry, at what point in either movie would any sane person call Clark an optimist? I am genuinely interested to know what you think portrays this

Trusts Lois with his identity, trusts the government enough to surrender to them (twice!), fights to make a difference within the system as a reporter, turns himself over to zod + eats a nuke to save humanity bc he believes in their goodness even if he's seen them at their worst

>>and faith in the goodness of those around him
>Again, what in the shit are you talking about?
>You realize that scenes you pretend happened don't count, right?
LMFAO idk how you missed the entire thematic conflict of the film, but it was about Clark's faith in people making him overly trusting and so ripe dangerously naive and Bruce's cynicism making him see the worst in people and so dangerously aggressive and the entire point is that Batman wins the fist fight but Supes wins the battle of ideals and restores Bruce's faith in mankind, hence the entire closing narration

Man, I have no idea what you thought was going on during scenes like "Lois I'm afraid I didn't see the bomb.. bc I wasn't looking for it :(", were you just bored there were no talking animals or ???

>>93344098
But Superman's dilemma isnt whether cynicism would save lives
Its whether he should just retire on a farm somewhere and marry Lois cause saving people is pointless.
And no it wasnt interesting because no character really acts on or greatly considers the issues beyond Superman looking concerned and then just doing what he would anyways

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>>93341576
Fuck WB. What about those people who supported your product in the past? That audience who didn't listen to the critics working for the mouse? The same guys who bought the BDs and related merchandise? Even WW has a lot of the so-called "dark" tone besides the executive meddling end. This is New Coke all over again.

>>93344363
They can't keep the entire DCEU going based solely on the support of a small audience of Snyder loyalists.

>>93344343
Thats not a form of cynicism v optimism
Its a form of I did not think that a congressional hearing would miss spot checking for an explosive device in the US capitol and was more focused on my testimony
Lois also discovered his identity, and he doesn't trust the government thats why he fucks up their spy drone. He just offers himself up to an impotent entity that cannot hurt him when they ask

>>93344459
And WW was a DCEU movie minus the ending and the ending was weak and clearly shoehorned but apparently every DC movie from now on will be Marvel

>>93344352
At no point is Clark's conflict that he thinks saving people is 'pointless'

He gets disenheartened over his limitations and the fact that he can't save everyone, and he gets disenhearetened by collateral damage and deleterious side effects that accompany his good intentions

These are the real struggles that idealists face when they get behind the levers of power, that's why there are still problems in the world bros

>>93344462
You're arguing against the literal text of the film at this point

This is addressed, verbally, specifically, immediately afterwards

>>93344551

Wonder Woman wasn't like Marvel just because it had a bit of humor, anon. It still tackled it themes far more seriously than the MCU which always undercuts it's dramatic scenes with a shit quip, prat fall or cute character acting goofy

>>93344299
>doesn't understand how depth works
Don't get involved in things that are beyond you, kid. Not until you grow up.

>>93344316
Why? Wonder Woman vs. Ares was cool.

>>93344856
Eh. Not really. Seeing some tiny, mustached British man did not scream God of War to me. The mangled armor, the idiotic voice, the whole fight sequence taking giant pauses. Everything was rushed so fast in that ending.

>>93344856
I'm a lot like that anon, just didn't like Skwad at all. I thought the Ares fight was good but I personally didn't like the last words thing with Steve and how they kept it secret via post explosion ringing but that she actually heard him seemed unnecessary. Though his actual death, how he did it, and her reaction were FUCKING GREAT I also felt the misdirect, while effective and good,
was rushed at the end with her killing not-ares and ares showing up right after but only after steve left.. I did really like it though and since I liked BvS and MoS I was afraid it would be too much "course correction" due to the hype.

Remember when Green Lantern flopped and the execs literally said the problem was it wasn't dark and edgy enough?

>>93341781
This

>>93345134

No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeYxdIZpUK4

>>93341710
People didn't respond to a shit movie badly done.
I get what they were aiming for, I understood what the movie was about and most of the characters motivations. And it was still a shit film, poorly made by a director that's a fucking hack that only knows how to do references to previous works of art as a shortcut for coming up with stuff himself.
Snyder is a bad director, as proven by his track record.

>>93342618
Sure did. Admiring defeat is a sign of humility though, and quite admirable.

>>93341576
>inb4 Adam West Batfleck homage in post credit Whedon scene

>>93341666
Damnit Satan, don't you have anything better to do?

File: Affleck-as-Adam-West-Batman.jpg (54KB, 525x707px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 525x707px

>>93346197

>>93346147
You tell that to Berg and Johns then.

>>93346257
Well it is in MOST cases.