Should we just give up on Superman in the DCEU at this point?

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Superman is being phased out of our culture. The S symbol is something everyone recognizes and knows what it means, but as a character, Superman has been fighting to stay relevant for a very long time, and it's getting worse and worse as the years go by. Man of Steel was this Hail Mary play to get him popular again, and instead it failed miserably. What's made things worse is that Wonder Woman was amazing and people love her. Now for Wonder Woman that's great, but for Superman, what it basically did is it has shown people that he fucking sucks and we don't need him. She was everything he should've been in Man of Steel.

>>93324517
You should give up on the DCEU.

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Will he save him /co/?

>>93324846
Henry Cavill might be the most beautiful human on this planet

>>93324517
>>> Doesn't punch Zod into a single building in their Metropolis fight.
>>> Takes Doomsday into space Immediately.
> Destructive.

>>> Spends 33 years not punching down on abusers & bullies.
> Violent (because he flips out when his mom is being choked)

Your a lying sack of worthless trash OP.

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>>93324517
>>93324735

You should give up on everything in your life, Anon.

>>93324924
>Plows Zod through a silo and gas station, most likely killing and injuring people and causing collateral damage.

Sure.

>>93324924
>Doesn't in any way, shape, or form try to take the highly destructive fight away from a huge civilian population and their homes.

DCEU got me into Superman. I love their version.

Further proving the fact that OP is a lying sack of uninformed shit.
http://www.cbr.com/man-steel-2-supergirl-rumor/

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Patty Jenkins is best girl! Get her to direct Superman.

Superman wouldn't want the only people who like him to be Superman fans, that's ultimately where Snyder failed

>>93325062
You're seriously taking Umberto's word? That guy who has been wrong many times? Here's the real truth. Nobody fucking knows if Supergirl will be in MoS2. But when MoS2 starts getting put into production, you can bet your ass they'll decide to put her in at that time.

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>>93324991
>>Doesn't in any way, shape, or form try to take the highly destructive fight away from a huge civilian population and their homes.
Yeah... about that...

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>>93324991
>>93325179

>>93325179
SSSHHH.. they didn't watch the movie. They just want (You)s

>>93324976
He was in a blind rage after his mother was threatened and was looking straight down at Zod's face the entire flight there was no point where he was choosing what direction he was flying towards.

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>>93325250
>He was in a blind rage

Dun dun dun dun duuun....DUN DUN DUN! Dun dun dun dun duuun....SUPERMAN!

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>>93325279
So you want him to be a sociopath who doesn't have a emotional reaction when his mother is being choked to death.

>>93325405
Not to mention he was still coming to terms with his strength,


people don't want to accept that Cavill's Superman hasn't been born yet and that we are in the midway point of his arc.

you can judge his Superman once the arc is complete in Justice League until then stop sprouting fucking bullshit.

The appearance of being heroic is as important as the acts of heroism themselves, especially to a living symbol like Superman.

Even if Snyderfags are right and it was a good portrayal of Superman's fundamental principles, if the masses didn't think so, then he's not that good of a symbol is he?

>>93325405
No, I want him to not plow bad guys through buildings and populated areas. He could've tackled and punched the shit outta Zod without doing that.

>>93325509
Putting aside the fact that this Superman is for some reason an exception and every other character themselves by the end of, if not the start of, their first movie, you guys said this after MoS. Why should I believe you now? It's far more likely that in December you'll be saying to wait for Justice League or MoS2.

Now's the part where you insult me in lieu of an argument.

>>93325604
Arguable point if Snyder was writing this Superman as trying to be a symbol but his characterization is the opposite. He is just a normal guy wanting to help out & nothing more. Hence his revulsion at the Mexicans worshiping him.

>>93325642
> No, I want him to not plow bad guys through buildings
And he is never shown intentionally doing that.
Compare his punches down in the streets in close quarters with Zod to the ones he let loose with here - >>93325200
And it's crystal clear he was holding back around the buildings.

>>93325509
>people don't want to accept that Cavill's Superman hasn't been born yet
Bullshit. He was "born" the moment he put on the suits and started calling the shots with the military

The fact that "he's new" doesn't dispute the fact that he was reckless, and it's not a good excuse for it either

>>93325657
That very well may be the case. And in such a event then their intent was never to grow into the childish boys scout & instead just let him be a more serious elseworld style take on the character like Earth One and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that. Something never intending to appeal to you personally does not equal that thing being incompetent.

>>93325847
> Characters should be perfect flawless Mary sues from the get go and never grow & learn over time.
> Characters who contextually have no training should be capable of anything the story needs from them to have a 100% happy ending despite that.

>>93325848
Earth One Superman can be argued to be incompetent

MoS Superman is DEFINITELY incompetent

Also, if you think the typical Superman archetype is somehow a "childish boyscout" then I call into question wether or not you even know the character

>>93324517
>Should we just give up on Superman in the DCEU at this point?
The fuck do you mean "at this point". You should've left at the tornado scene at the absolute latest. This isn't for you, it's for Injustice fans.

>>93325848
The sad thing is I had pretty good odds that'd be your response. In absence of a master plan there's just sour grapes and "oh well the thing you want was shit to begin with!"

It's really just sad at this point. But hey, I'm happy for you and the fact that you enjoy this take on the character. Maybe with time and a little more maturity you'll enjoy the real one as well.

>>93325890
Nice stawman

>this character is reckless
>ugh you just want a Mary Sue

He's fucking 33 anon, is it wrong that I don't want Superman to outright murder people in a gass station in his fight with Zod?

And how cute that you mention that he didn't have training, because the film established the contrary

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I haven't given up on Snyderman. Just give him time. He will be the shining beacon of hope we all know and love. He's just going through some growing pains right now.

>>93325890
>Superman is a Mary Sue
Stopped right there.

C'mon...

>>93324517
Fuck no.I want Superman to be popular again.

>>93326082
Spoken like an mentally abused housewife

>h-he'll be good, I know he will

>>93325933
I was taking about you confusing the creators intentionally setting out to do a dead serious flawed Superman characterization as incompetence in their parts.

Regardless...
> Saving 7-8 billion lives
> Incompetence because several thousand died because like every other version of Superman he CAN NOT be in 2 places at once.

>>93325062
Nobody gives a shit about Supergirl

>>93325405
Suprise suprise, the tumblr gif user is a Snyder dick sucker.

>>93325509
Shouldnt take 3 fucking movies for it. Wonder Woman came full circle in 1.

>>93324517
his worst crime is he is bald as fuck

>>93326150
I'm not wasn't him tho.

Regardless, I'm going to parrot what he actually responded you with
>In absence of a master plan there's just sour grapes and "oh well the thing you want was shit to begin with!"

Also, you trying to imply that Superman had no control over the direction of the fight is dumb. Mostly because he literally killed people by the gass station early on.

THAT, is incompetence

>>93325973
Except...
> Injustice Superman is a selfish overloriding murderous tyrant who threatens to kill his allies if they even vaguely questions details.

> Dceu Clark spent 33 years selflessly in hiding because he feared his existence would bring harm to society but even still saved people in secret periodically because he knew it was the right thing to do. He doesn't have many close ties but those he does (Lois & Martha) he cares deeply for. He tried to shut down the tortuous crimes of the Batman as a reporter & only resorted to threatening him as Superman when that avenue was blocked by his boss. He has shown a willingness to die for the human race 3 times minimum (world engine, nuke, spear)

I'm REALLY not seeing the fucking resemblance dude.

>>93326266
It didnt show that anyone died in smallville. Maybe nust the soldiers that Faora killed.

>>93324517
>another shill thread
BvS was kino, get over it.

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>>93324517
I'm still hoping. Superman is quickly becoming one of my favorite characters since Rebirth, and is the reason I've gotten back into reading comics a lot more. I just want a Superman like the current comics, or the DCAU, hell, I'd settle for one like Justice League: War. I think Cavill could be a great Superman, but as he is now, it feels like Earth One, which felt boring as hell and not really entertaining in my eyes.
But really, I think I want a Superman that feels inspirational.

>>93326268
They're both cunts. One's just angry while the other is whiny.

>>93326268
>There is literally a future scene where Superman becomes an evil tyrant because Lois died, and Batman leading the resistance

Sure...

>>93326300
You're not gonna get that here. Stick to that other stuff and be happy. We can't have it all. The chuuni need something too.

>>93326268
Why is a fucking video game so fucking influential in the other media?

>>93326287
Superman blew up a gas station with people

>>93326006
> "oh well the thing you want was shit to begin with!"
I'm referring to the Reeves version not the comic version for the most part.
> Maybe with time and a little more maturity you'll enjoy the real one as well.
Except I do enjoy him alot. I like Superman tas as much as it's Batman counterpart & I am hold the main Rebirth Superman book as my favorite comic I am currently reading easily (I am reading 15 or so series currently)

There is nothing immature about wanting a serious take on the character to contrast previous versions just like Nolan contrasted Batman & Robin.

>>93326361
It's not. It's just that "what if the wholesome nice guy where actually weak willed or an asshole" is the go to for lazy writers. You see it a lot with Mario as well for some reason. Maybe it's because they both wear red and blue?

>>93326368
It doesnt show that where people inside.

>>93326314
>Batman is the one killing people all because of a dead loved one
>Bats is the clear villain
You're a fucking retard. Supes and Wondy were the only heroes in BvS. Johns and Wheldon are going to ignore that shit anyway.

>>93326024
33 with zero training.
Reeves's Superman had TWELVE years of training before going public in the fortress with his dad.
> because the film established the contrary
Only in keeping then suppressed & hidden but not in actually using them except prehaps for the eyes.

Crashing into a building 100% by accident isn't murder.

>>93324517
>>93324630

Don't forget that in the language of money that studio suits speak, Wonder Woman is probably going to surpass MoS in domestic box office the way things are going.

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>>93326268
Both became murderous dictators when Lois died.

Snyderman looks even more emotionally unstable with the fact that he was middle aged and had no friends, girlfriend or carreer until the start of the movie, while also having hallucinations of his dead dad that killed himself in front of him.

This all could have been prevented if Pa Kent's characterization hadn't been fucked with. Clark's characterization all stems from that fundamental change.

>>93325279
This is how shitposters prove they don't know Superman. They'll cherrypick instances where he is happy and peaceful to further their narrative.

>>93326100
Reeve's Superman is.
A character who can pull time travel out of his ass to avoid the film's events having any weight or consequence whatsoever is factually a mary sue.

>>93324517
Should we give up on Batman?
>Brutal murderer
>Planned to kill Clark in cold blood
>Used fucking guns
Or how about edgy Leto Joker? No you fucking moron, because Snyder is now out and they're doing a complete 180 on all this shit.

>>93326376
>serious
I don't have the appropriate reaction image so assume there's some costanza stuff to the left of this post before you go on your usual rant about how it doesn't have flying cars so it must be serious.

>>93326458
>Clark's characterization all stems from that fundamental change.
How exactly? Are you implying that Superman saving the world twice in MoS and BvS is a mischaracterization?

>>93326376
>I'm referring to the Reeves version not the comic version for the most part.
>There is nothing immature about wanting a serious take on the character to contrast previous versions just like Nolan contrasted Batman & Robin.
tfw Chris Nolan said in camera that he was actually trying to emulate the realism that the Reeves films made, right at Richard Donner himself

Just because the Donner movies were much more coy and generally had a sense of humor, doesn't mean it wasn't realistic.

Frankly, these attempts to be "realistic" and "serious" is half the reason why it turns out to be more childish than the source material

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>>93326454
>Both became murderous dictators when Lois died.
Snyderman hasn't done anything yet you fucking retard. And how much of a fucking casual are you that Injustice is your go to for Evil Supes, the most common fucking Elseworld ever?

>>93326163
Stop assuming people who use Tumblr Gifs get them off Tumblr.
They show up on Google image results a plenty.

>>93326442
>with zero training
Who's fault is that? He had plenty of time to find out the limits of his abilities.
I said it in /frz/ back in the day and I'll say it here. You don't get excused from being a fuck up if you had the opportunity to learn beforehand. You don't get to skip training and then use the "it's my first day" excuse.
The Kents had a shitload of empty ass farmland he could've practiced on. We know because hey, he does that in other media!

>>93326180
Because she was born in paradise while Clark grew up in a dark realistic paranoid world and had go actually consider the ramifications of his actions & existence all his life.

>>93326452
Don't worry. We can just call anyone that likes Wonder Woman an SJW pleb.

>>93326501
>Just because the Donner movies were much more coy and generally had a sense of humor, doesn't mean it wasn't realistic.
Explain to me in what way a cellophane S shield wrapping up 3 Kryptonians is realistic.

>>93326546
Of maybe just maybe Snyder is a hack who doesnt k ow shit of the character.

>>93326535
Where the fuck is he going to practice hand to hand combat you fucking moron? Or Aerial combat?

>>93326572
Or maybe >>93326546

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>>93326513
>Snyderman hasn't done anything yet you fucking retard.

Flash had to back in time to prevent that anon. Future was literally show to you, this what would have happened. He is that kind of guy.

>And how much of a fucking casual are you that Injustice is your go to for Evil Supes

Nigga, you are patethic. I'm 100% sure that I read more comics than you but I won't superglue things out like an autist like you are doing. Injustice is atual and from a suceful comic and game, to not day that "Lois dying triggering evil Supes" is very similar.

>>93326469
>Heroes that make things better are for babies! I only like victories that are pyhrric!
You're supposed to grow out of that by the time you're 16. What happened anon? Who hurt you?

>>93326546
Superbro ended up fine.

>>93326572
Or maybe you don't. It's ok most of /co/'S knowledge of characters come from feels threads since you fags don't read comics.

>>93326500

No, but his general attitude is. Pa Kent in this setting was not an optimistic and uplifting role model for Clark (that role is filled by Jor-El's hologram). He's also the reason why Clark got such a late start when it came to using his abilities, leaving him in a very rusty state when the Earth was invaded and finally needed them.

>>93326546
Nah, even Hellboy movies has more inspirational heroes and they had a harder life than baby autistic Snyderman.

Also NUMEROUS comics do that with Superman, but with good execution, unlike MOS and BvS.

>>93326597
>Nigga, you are patethic. I'm 100% sure that I read more comics than you but I won't superglue things out like an autist like you are doing. Injustice is atual and from a suceful comic and game, to not day that "Lois dying triggering evil Supes" is very similar.
Learn how to spell you fucking retard. Maybe then you can convince me of your supposed reading ability.

>>93326266
> Also, you trying to imply that Superman had no control over the direction of the fight is dumb.
I'm am not arguing he couldn't control the direction of the flight (altho once he got going I don't think he could stop himself fast enough to avoid the buildings even if he saw them) I am arguing that in his completely justified rageful state of mind & looking straight down most of the flight it never entered his mind to take note of were he was headed. His only mental intention was to get Zod as far away from Martha as fast as possible & nothing else.

>>93326432
There were cars in that gas station anon..
>>93326437
lol, the movie made a point to show the possible future of Superman becoming a dictator when Lois died, pay attention
>>93326442
I didn't mention Reeve anywhere in the comment. I'm not comparing him to Reeve, that wouldn't be fair to MoS Superman. He's still reckless.

Also there was a shot of Superman actually training and learning how to fly

>>93326588
He's Superman. He's not exactly using karate.
He just needs to know the extent of his strength and have a good head on his shoulders to prevail. The chuckle you're dickriding doesn't and it's nobody's fault but his own.

He doesn't even know he can fly until he's thirty. That's just stupid.

>>93326653
Do you want to continue the conversation in french, grammar nazi? Or maybe in German?

>>93326668
>lol, the movie made a point to show the possible future of Superman becoming a dictator when Lois died, pay attention
And that future is no longer a possibility you fucking retard. They're not going the Injustice route you idiot. Especially not after BvS got shitted on like it did.

>>93326659
>His only mental intention was to get Zod as far away from Martha as fast as possible & nothing else.
Just because he didn't intend to kill people and destroy property, doesn't justify his actions

>>93326546
>realism means everyone is dark and paranoid and an asshole
Who hurt you?

>>93326688
Do you want to learn how to spell retard?

Being out of middle school for the summer is no excuse faggot.

>>93326309
One is a dictatorial murderous cunt & one is a pragmatic heroic non-cunt.
>>93326314
A possible injustice type future still doesn't equal his main time frame personality to have anything in common with Injustice because he absolutely does not.
Plus we don't know to what degree that future Superman has been mentally altered by Darkseid. Injustice Superman became what he is on his own.

>>93326632
>No, but his general attitude is.
His general attitude is a direct result of the cynical world he lives in. He can't be open about his powers because the world either deifies him or demonizes him. He can't do a good deed without being punished for it. That's not on Pa Kent. Pa knew what the world was like and tried to protect Clark from it. But he also knew that Clark was destined for great things despite all the darkness of the world. In the end, Clark still rose to the occasion.

>>93326704
>They're not going the Injustice route you idiot.
Are you autistic?

The point was about how the characters were similar, genius. It was made clear that he'd make the same choices if he were in the same position

>>93326754
>One is a dictatorial murderous cunt & one is a pragmatic heroic non-cunt.
Nah, just a whiny bitch cunt. There's absolutely nothing you can say or do that will convince me otherwise, so feel free to just cry "you're lying!" for the rest of the thread like usual.

>>93326454
> Snyderman looks even more emotionally unstable with the fact that he was middle aged and had no friends, girlfriend or carreer until the start of the movie
Yes... it's totally the emotionally unstable choice to be a reclusive fly on the wall because your genetics could cause upheavals in society that could cost lives. Totally.

>>93326773
You do realize Good Supes in IJ1 literally says exactly that right? Supes gives Bats the Kryptonite because he's fucking afraid of that possibility because he's not fucking perfect.

>>93326830
>Nah, just a whiny bitch cunt
We're talking about Snyderman not you.

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>>93325071
>tfw no qt3.14 capeshit director girlfriend

>>93326475
Ok a grounded played completely straight take if 'serious' is too much of a trigger word for you.

>>93324846

The Cereal King can barely save the Bo Dukes from the evil that is that Shitty Canon Wagon Train that comes out of his brain each and every time he sits down in front of his typewriter.

>>93325071
Jenkins directing, and Snyder doing the action sequences and cinematography would be GOAT

>>93326501
They weren't coy or humorous they bordering on being parodies.
You think how Lex altered the nuke codes is a billion light years near realistic? That was some fucking 3 stooges/abbott & costello type shit.

>>93326454
>middle aged and had no friends, girlfriend or carreer
does that mean you're emotionally unstable too

>>93326908
>completely straight take
Okay, now picture a smug laughing anime girl because Lex alone keeps that from ever happening.

>>93326535
Except they believed hiding was to be his #1 prioritiy because riots & freaking war could happen if he is revealed to the world.

>>93325509
>hasn't been born yet and that we are in the midway point of his arc

This is just the justification you tell yourself.

Own your madness and set yourself free.

>>93325604
>if the masses didn't think so, then [Superman]'s not that good of a symbol [of heroism,] is he?

>>93327004
And that's terrible.

>>93327004
Funny how when I say all Jonathan ever wanted Clark to do ever was hide but then you guys go NO HE KNEW CLARK WOULD DO GREAT THINGS WHEN HE'S READY and now it's Number 1 priority to hide.

Nobody takes defense of these shit movies seriously because you can't stick to a single script.

>>93326611
> pyhrric
> :(of a victory) won at too great a cost to have been worthwhile for the victor.
Your insane if you think loosing a 7th of a single city is too great a cost to have been worthy saving 7-8 billion lives.

I am fine with happy endings, but I want practical reasonable limitations & solutions not convenient preposterous bullshit.

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>>93325071

Well you could say she already directed... a Monster!

>>93326710
Except it does.
If a cop shoots a gunman who is spraying the area with a machine gun & his bullet passes through the gunman & hits a bystander, the cop shooting the gunman doesn't suddenly cease to be justified.

>>93326830
But he never whined about anything as a adult. It factually did not take place on screen.

I remember some actors that worked on MOS and BvS shit talkin g the movies and the characterization of the characters.

I think they were Alfred, Pa Kent and Zod?

>>93327080
No both are accurate.
His priority was to hide him. He did believe he was here for a reason but I doubt he believed we would ever figure out what it was. And he knew Clark was too spontaneous & immature at the time of his death to go for it yet.

>>93327234
No Alfred called out the story of Bvs for being too complicated.

Seeing as how Wonder Woman was a success, and with Johns as executive producer, expect a huge tonal shift for Big Blue. There's no way he's gonna let Supes get sidelined. Not happening. I really believe Superman and Wonder Woman's popularity is gonna spike with Justice League, along with Flash and Aquaman. People are tired of nonstop Batman.

>>93327296
You can't do great things if you're not ready for them. You don't become ready just by sitting with your thumb up your ass because you're scared people are mean.

But then look where I'm trying to explain this.

>>93324517
>>93324846
>>93324870
I hate this because Cavill is very charming when not wearing the Superman costume

Superman is my favorite of the trinity,
this thread makes me sad

>>93328328
Blame Snyder for being an edgy cunt

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I like Supes in the DCEU, and as many anons in this thread alone have pointed out, people like to misrepresent him a lot.

It's strange because HAVE the Superman you want, but choose to make up falsehoods.

>>93328499
*you HAVE
whoops

Superman has always been my favorite hero, and I love the DCEU's take on him. We've had sunny and immediately accepted Superman over the years, it's refreshing to see a different take that stays true to the hopefulness of the character.

Smiling and being happy all the time does not equal hope. If that was the case, then Joker is the most hopeful person in the world. Hope is when you see and believe in the positive when there is negative around. You can be depressed, sad, and feel down but still have hope. People, even heroes, lose hope. They get jaded, they get tired, they might think about giving up because life can really fucking suck sometimes. The world can be a dark and cruel place, and sometimes it gets you. What's important, however, is standing up again for what you believe in.

Superman in the films ultimately believed in mankind, hence his turning himself over to the government to save the earth, attending a trial to get a different perspective, taking the nuke. etc. Even though he was being shat on constantly, he always did the right thing.

>>93326314
>>There is literally a future scene where Superman becomes an evil tyrant because Lois died

Why are you whining about a possible future timeline that is never going to exist that the comics and cartoons have done dozens of times in the past?

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>>93328602
>Superman in the films ultimately believed in mankind, hence his turning himself over to the government to save the earth, attending a trial to get a different perspective, taking the nuke. etc. Even though he was being shat on constantly, he always did the right thing.
THIS, he even saves Lex from Doomsday's punch after everything Lex did to his loved ones for fuck's sake!

The hate really baffles me.

>>93326535
So you're a proponent of Superman sitting on his ass at the fortress of solitude for a decade while his dad gives him lectures about how he's suppose to live his life and then the minute he walks outside he's Superman with perfect experience in using his powers despite never actually being shown training?

>>93327871
He was trying to figure out why he was on Earth, while saving people. That is NOT sitting with a thumb up his ass.

>>93328700
>So you're a proponent of Superman sitting on his ass at the fortress of solitude for a decade while his dad gives him lectures about how he's suppose to live his life and then the minute he walks outside he's Superman with perfect experience in using his powers despite never actually being shown training?
I normally don't support Home Schooling, but I wouldn't doubt the results if it worked well. And in your example it clearly worked, so yes, that would be fine as long as Superman was able to be Superman.

>>93326535
>I said it in /frz/
dropped

>>93328668
Because people hardly recognize nobility and good for the sake of it. So they tear down anything resembling someone better than themselves.

Ever notice that the people insisting "Superman is dead" are the ones who never believed in anything he stood for to begin with?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjqqRlgzv6c

>>93326683
>He doesn't even know he can fly until he's thirty. That's just stupid.

Why's that stupid? How's he meant to innately know how to fly with no one to teach him anything?

>>93329042
>Because people hardly recognize nobility and good for the sake of it. So they tear down anything resembling someone better than themselves.
>Ever notice that the people insisting "Superman is dead" are the ones who never believed in anything he stood for to begin with?
Amazing, so amazing. Now that you realise you can't defend Snyderman you start attacking those disagreeing.

It's just a pity it doesn't work, because we have Wonder Woman. By your argument we should hate her just as much if not more. But since we actually like her film, that ruins your narrative.

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>>93324517
He didn't give up on you.

I hate Donnerfags who use the argument that Zod would fly after Supes, even though it's already explicitly stated (by both Zod and Faora) that killing humans was the gamepkan.

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>>93324517

It just takes some writers actually understanding Superman and not projecting shallow-normieness on him. What I mean by that is that people view Superman from a narrow lense where they project too much human flaws on someone who's explicitly not human. They think if THEY had the power he had, they'd be violent assholes... So they write Superman like that.

Without realizing maybe Superman is different. He's not human. He has no human flaws. Maybe Krytopian instinct/genetic instinct makes him feel more attached to having a strict moral good and following it. Maybe Superman ENJOYS helping people. Maybe it makes him feel in control of himself to find ways to uses his powers to stop people without just killing them.

They don't think about Kal like that. That's the problem.

>>93324630

This makes me feel pretty sad and it's one of the reasons one of my life goals is too write the Superman/Action Comics book. To bring Superman back from this. To give him purpose and place in the DC universe and I would say the culture at large but honestly that's up to the culture and I'm not going to write for normies sake, but for the sake of the fans actually reading comics and the characters who will outlive us all.

Superman doesn't deserve this.

I like the culture has lost faith in Superman because like I said above, they've lost all faith in someone being moral and upstanding to begin with. They don't feel comfortable with someone who just tries to be good all the time and doesn't indulge in hedonistic assholish behavior.

>>93329104
>"
Not him, but you like WW and not MoS purely because you only see the surface, and you know that.
They are the same.
That's why anything involving the word "deep" sets you off so bad.

>>93324517
This is what happens when you let "le normal human of much relatability" become the basis for all of your movies

>hurr he needs to be "realistic"
>durr we cant let superman beat batman, think of the normies
>hurr durrr batman movies are good, we should make superman broody and emo too

>>93328839
Yeah, I called frozen shit too. Just like I'm calling Snyderman. Because they both star timid anti social babies too cowed by asshole dads to actually learn how their own powers work.

That's who Snyderman is; an overhyped princess.

>>93328700
You seem to have constructed this odd strawman were anyone that hates Snyder's bitch ass Clark is thinking only of Reeve.

I'd prefer Superboy and the Legion. I'd prefer the bits in Smallville where Jonathan is actually supportive and teaches Clark how to control his powers. But no, keep pissing and moaning about how everyone just wants "childish" Christopher Reeve. That dead horse will get you through another thread so long as you use all your retard strength to beat it.

>>93329081
Same way he does in other versions. He starts off with just jumping really good and then one day doesn't come down.

pretty good timing. i just started rewatching the batman v superman ultimate edition.
anyone else?

>>93329492
>He starts off with just jumping really good and then one day doesn't come down.

That's not how it usually happens. Usually he just happens to float accidentally. Jumping around from place to place is only done when somebody has a boner for the golden age Superman.

>>93329469

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of people bitching and whining about MoS Clark being a hobo for a decade supposedly doing nothing (even though he's shown to have been saving people anonymously all that time) but nobody says a peep about Donner Clark spending a decade being a fucking NEET in the Arctic.

>>93330015
>Donner Clark

Just entering this conversation, but you seem to think that these are the two only versions. Say what you will about Superman Returns, but ONE nice thing about it was that it didn't need to rehash the origin story one more time. IT probably is one of THE best known origin stories, not just in the broad details but in the little ones. The only thing we got was more in the sense of brief recollections that any person might have when they are back home or back at a former workplace, etc.

The flight scene in MoS was something that was managed well, so I don't have an issue with it. As with the other anon, I think some of Jonathan (and or Martha, as with the 'think of my voice') helping Clark with his powers growing up would be good. Either that, or they should have gone with he doesn't develop his powers until adult hood.

>>93329325
>To bring Superman back from this. To give him purpose and place in the DC universe and I would say the culture at large but honestly that's up to the culture and I'm not going to write for normies sake, but for the sake of the fans actually reading comics and the characters who will outlive us all.

A. Normies or casuals aren't going to become fans unless you give them entry points. One thing I do think DC does well is they have an excellent line of Capstone readers for kids, plus the Lego DC Superhero graphic novels for kids, and the family friendly DVDs.

They really need something like JL/JLU and the DCAU - and while there's a lot to like in Justice League Action, it's a middling product, a B-/C+ greatest remix tribute band type creation.

I don't think the anon you're responding to is correct. The shield is one of the common things I see in public and I've lived in three of the largest cities in the USA and taken public transportation in all of them and it's a tattoo, backpack, sticker, tee shirt, cap, etc. that I see more commonly than any other.

>>93329325
Supes has had good comics for quite a while now and a fair swath of them have perfectly captured what's great about the character. Writing a good Superman comic isn't going to revitalize the character in culture at large because comics don't matter to culture at large, just the movies.

>>93330284

We're shown Martha helping Clark control his super hearing and Pa teaching him restraint, so he doesn't just beat the shit out of his bullies when he has a tantrum.

>>93324517
No, we should give up on Hack Snyder ad give the franchise to somebody who understands the character.

>>93324517
Maybe he will get better after his resurrection?

>>93331332
>Maybe he will get better after his resurrection?
He might, but he isn't going to be the greatest hero of Earth anymore. He gave up that spot by now, and is now similar to the Hulk in being a grave threat himself and be mind-controlled by enemies. He will be living in his crystal fortress of literal solitude and only get called out when Batman and Wonderwoman wanted him to crack some heads.

>>93329373
>durr we cant let superman beat batman, think of the normies
No, it's just a far less interesting story. Having the powerful guy beat the less powerful one with ease is not an engaging story. It's much more interesting to see how someone who should lose by all logic, ends up winning.

>>93326300
>it feels like Earth One
While it's not among my favorite comics by any measure, I was ok with Earth One. The main problem with DCEU Superman is that he acts like Earth One Superman, but that one was in his late teens, just coming out of highschool. DCEU was fucking 33 and still behaving like an angsty teenager.
I think the reason why so many autists from /tv/ like Snyder's Superman is because it makes it seem like being a NEET with a complete lack of maturity look ok, and gives them hope that some day something will come out from the sky and give them a purpose.

>>93324517
>go to every JL trailer
>top 5 comments are asking where the fuck is Superman
Nah you're just a not muh autist

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>>93331811
>>93331811
Either way you slice it, it's still a shit sandwich.

>>93331967
Yeah, it's a story that's been done to death by now, but it's always more interesting to see the underdog at least land a few punches.
The biggest fuckup of the movie was stretching the conflict for so long, when we all knew it was gonna end in a fight but they would get together to take Luthor down.
I think what the movie needed the most was a more clear plan from Luthor, mostly the Doomsday backup plan that came out from nowhere, and people who aren't familiar with Doomsday (probably about 90% of the audience) just didn't understand what the fuck was going on (and it doesn't really make that much sense for those of us who knew anyway), and more of Superman and Batman working together.
I think the best thing would've been WW being the one bringing them together, thus already foreshadowing her role as embassador and diplomat, and her ability of getting out the best from people. Something like that could've been a proper setup for a future Justice League.

>Superman doesn't try to get Zod out of the city besides the two or three times that he does only for Zod returning because it's kind of hard to control an overpowered kryptonian so he's somehow responsible for all the destruction caused by Zod!
>(they address his potential responsability directly in BvS but who cares lmao)
>in the Chitauri invasion only like 12 people died though
Why is /co/ so dishonest? Just say you like quips and be done with it

So I was actually locked up in a "Mental Retreat" with a bunch of crazy people for a few days for trying to kill myself (Got out early for lying to the doctors that I was feeling better)

The only things there for entertainment were TV, and copies of every movie of every DCCU movie up until that point. Apparently crazy people love the shit out of the DCCU

>>93332163
>The only things there for entertainment were TV, and copies of every movie of every DCCU movie up until that point. Apparently crazy people love the shit out of the DCCU
Is it a Religious Retreat? DC tend to please religious groups because of The Presence being there.

>>93324630
He's only being phased out because hacks get a hold of him and try to reinvent him and lose sight of the charm and draw of the character.

The "kino" bullshit works for Batman because he's a grimdark edgy faggot and will probably never be good again, but people watch him FOR that. People don't watch Superman to see him twist people's heads off for funsies, or to destroy the places he's supposed to protect, he's supposed to be a classic hero. Not some emoboy faggot brooding in a batcave about his dead parents. He's an optimist, he's liek batman's antithesis, but no one seems to remember that.

>>93332248
No, it was just their way of saying Looney Bin

I mean there were actual crazies there, my roommate was a paranoid schizophrenic.

There was a pretty chill guy who had minor brain damage that I became friends with though

>>93332257
>he's supposed to be a classic hero.

And then people complain he's a boring boyscout.

>>93329325
Kal isn't flawless, but he's also not an exemplar of a person because he's alien. He's that friend you had, or that man you know from work, who has this unwavering faith in the world. The kind of guy who smiles all the time, and picks himself off the ground and laughs at his own misfortune, you know these kinds of people. He's what happens when the best kind of person in this world, gets near godlike powers, That's who he is, peolpe like Lex are those of us who are skeptical of that sort of person, and with good reason to since those people always seem the most wll adjusted and put together, and so they MUST be hiding something.

The problem here, like you said, is that we have a bunch of Lex Luthors writing for someone that they don't even believe is real.

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I don't think movie supes can be saved, i could go on a big ass rant about how movie writers will never be on the same level as comic book and animation writers, but i'll just say i once had a teacher who actually worked for apparently important movies, and like every normie he saw superman as a boring character, i tried my best to tell him about good superman stories but it was useless he had a big ego and the entire class on his side

My entry point was watching teen supes in the legion as a kid that told me superman is a good guy who will use his powers for good, and sure then i watched others cartoons were superman had to deal with way biger dillemas but when i watched them i always knew that superman would find a way to do things the right way

meanwhile normies of this generation saw superman for like 5 minutes before they trew a bunch of religious symbolism to their faces. second movie gets even worse with the "false god" statue and bats the hero normies consider "realistic"

No wonder they don't like supes to them he seems like the big bad authority istead of just a guy who likes to help people

>>93332277
People are retarded, especially those people. They parrot whatever people who they think are smarter than them say.

You can still have a "boy scout" be an interesting person, you can have them go through struggles, you can even have them kill Zod. But it doesn't work if it's not done right. Fucks sake, they call Cap a boyscout, he throws a fucking metal frisbee for a weapon, and yet he's one of the most beloved heroes right now.

>>93325179
>>93325200
He did only after destroying buildings here and there, but ok...

>>93324517
Rumor for JL is that Steppenwolf is going to resurrect him and then he's going to willfully CHOOSE to be evil because Steppenwolf shows him some fake visions of Batman saving himself and leaving Lois to die.

I totally believe Snyder would love something like that being the hack that he is. Let's just hope it's not to late for based Johns and Whedon to save the movie.

>>93324846
I believe in Johns. He's basically the anti-Snyder.

I know this has being discussed a lot, but DCEU Supes is great, i really don't know why no one likes him. He wasn't all smiles, but i felt genuine care for humanity from him.

>>93325642

>He could've tackled and punched the shit outta Zod without doing that.

No? he was fighting his equal. He couldn't have that much control over the fight

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>>93329325
>Without realizing maybe Superman is different. He's not human. He has no human flaws.

???

Disagree. Humanity makes him likeable and fun to watch. There are more ways to show humanity then depression and murder.

My favorite live action version of Supes was on 'Lois and Clark'. He pranked people, he jumped to conclusions, pretended to be drugged so he could kiss Lois, He was frustrated by Superman merchandising and he struggled with whether or not to let Lois have her way with him while she was drugged. He was still a great guy and a capable hero. He was also likable and fun to watch when he wasn't punching people.

>>93332551
Except only 1 building & 1 parking garage fell during their 1 on 1 fight and Clark did ZERO structural damage to them himself.
Worst thing he did was drag Zod's face through some windows which was after the punchfest across the sky.

>>93332311
>ut when i watched them i always knew that superman would find a way to do things the right way
But the entire point of this version of the universe is that perfect solutions aren't possible. They are intentionally giving us a Superman who must struggle/strive and sacrifice to succeed not have a happy ending presented on a gold platter for him.
>meanwhile normies of this generation saw superman for like 5 minutes before they trew a bunch of religious symbolism to their faces
For 1 scene & 1 shot out of a 140 minute movie and So?
>No wonder they don't like supes to them he seems like the big bad authority istead of just a guy who likes to help people
If they think someone being a authority figure is a non positive thing that is their own anarchist piece of fucking trash moral-less having selves fault.

>>93331876
Key thing your missing.
E1 Superman was a angsty brat because he was a selfish bitch that didn't actually care about helping people.
Dceu Superman is broody not angsty because he desperately wants to help people but knows thousands could die if he reveals himself, there is NOTHING fucking immature about having that conflict.

>>93335706
>But the entire point of this version of the universe is that perfect solutions aren't possible. They are intentionally giving us a Superman who must struggle/strive and sacrifice to succeed not have a happy ending presented on a gold platter for him.
Then you are outright saying Wonder Woman is more competent than Superman. Because if Superman failed while Diana succeeds, then the problem isn't the world, it is Superman being incompetent.

>>93326688
Français ? ça explique l'autisme.
va t'occuper du fils de ta femme maintenant.

>>93335897
Their scenarios are completely fucking different.
1 - For almost all the film she is only fighting normal humans. Not multiple trained soldiers near her equal.
2 - Diana didn't have to direly be in 2 places at once like Clark did (metropolis/Indian ocean) and have had to choose between them.
3 - Clark didn't know Zod would use the World Engine without 1st recovering the codex.
Clark was still in Smallville making sure his mom was ok and then learning of a solution from Lois when the Black Zero settled over Metropolis.

>>93336015
>Their scenarios are completely fucking different.
You are claiming Superman can't win because his universe sucks. Are you claiming Diana isn't in the same universe?

And why is it that Superman will need at least 3, if not 4 films, before he can be Superman, while Diana got one and done?

>>93336235
>while Diana got one and done?

Excuse me, but she never got called Wonder Woman in the movie, now did she? Nor did she become a public hero.

MoS is Clark's first day on the job. BvS is him getting used to being a public hero and a figure of controversy, ultimately winning the public's trust as well as becoming an inspirational figure to Diana and Bruce.

>>93336235
I never claimed he can't win, just that he can't pull off perfect consequence-less solutions like Reeves could.
Diana didn't ether, she let Steve die, bunch of people got gassed.

> And why is it that Superman will need at least 3, if not 4 films, before he can be Superman
Not being a bright cheery does everything perfect Superman doesn't equal not being Superman.

>>93336015
You're right, the scenarios are different, because WW wasn't written and directed by hacks

>Martian Manhunter, more like Martian You'reabunchofvirgins lmao

>>93324517
Why is the DCEU so bad at capturing the basic personalities of the main heroes? Marvel does it pretty well, when you see Iron Man, Thor, Cap America, Spider Man, they have their personalities pretty clear and act the way you would imagine them do to, but for DC it just seems like grim and realistic versions of these characters

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>>93336471
> Letting your character be flawed, make mistakes & not have mary sue powers is hack-ish behavior...

>>93336486
>but for DC it just seems like grim and realistic versions of these characters
Which is the entire fucking point.

>>93332311
He can still be saved it's just going to be difficult.

broody, violent and other grim things is exactly what you should not do to superman in the cinema.
christopher reeves's supes movies are still liked even by our generation and new one. and trhat was not moody, grim or whatever the fuck edgeness from the 90s had.
Same thing for the MCU. They are trying to use the batman formula for other DC heroess on big screen that does not work.
I haven't watched WW yet. But from what i hear it doesn't seem to follow the batman edgeness formula

>>93324517
I watched BvS for the first time the other day. The fact that your complaining about the portrayal of supes is ridiculous when the movie has so many other problems dragging it down.

>Lex comes across as a tittering moron more at home with a fidget spinner than an evil plot.

>that's a problem because he's supposed to be driving these two heroes to deadly conflict.

>everything that makes batman, from how his father acts to how he himself deals with crime is altered to fit the forced premise.

>suddenly doomsday. You gave Lex Luther tons and tons of advanced alien tech, and the best you could come up with was fucking doomsday. Like everything else in the movie it felt forced.

Oh yeah, and Jimmy Olsen is a CIA operative who dies in the first 15 minutes. The directors and writers didn't care about the characters, they went out of their way to shit on them.

>>93336486
There's nothing wrong with doing darker versions of established characters. Especially since Superman Returns attempted the opposite and ailed utterly.

>>93324630
>>93326452
>>93329325
>>93332257
Superman is simply a symbol of an America that no longer exists.

>>93336656
Captain America

>>93326469
>Reeve's Superman is.
Okay that is true. The fucker actually managed to reverse time just by flying really, really fast instead of dealing with Lois' death. That has never been a power Superman has.

>>93336680
Hail Hydra!

>>93336656
Good. Superman should be worldwide

>>93336547
>Murdering civilians counts as "mistakes"
If that's the case I'll stick with the Mary Sue

>>93336681
Kek

Read a Silver Age comic, which was what the movie was based on

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>>93336486
Series of unfortunate events

First off, MoS was rushed into existence only because WB didn't want to risk losing the rights to Superman, so they just quickly got together a team of people under their wing and tried to base the movie on the success of Nolan's Batman

This team consisted of a writer that jokes about how comics nerds are virgins, and a director that openly explained he didn't care about capes until he noticed a certain amount of blood and cocks in Watchmen, and even then his knowledge of the genre seems dubious at best since he for example parrots around that TDKR's Batman is a serial killer, and then there was Nolan, which was probably the only sane person in the room.

But it's not like such a misstep was a first timer for WB. Problem is, the MCU and cinematic universes meme were getting big, so instead of ignoring the fuckup like they did with Green Lantern they decided the DCEU had to become a thing, so they didn't waste money on finding new people and ideas and just used Snyder and co. again, minus Nolan

And using MoS as the foundation was inevitably going to be a problem. You try explain why Batman or any hero didn't show up defending the world from an alien invasion that had a GLOBAL 24 HOURS WARNING beforehand. Hell, these movies don't even try to explain it, Bruce just shows up in his business suit and Jenkins is trying to make us forget that Diana sat on her ass avoiding humans for a century

So there you have BvS, a movie driven by the will to build this damn DCEU as soon as possible and by Goyer's and Snyder's desire of "subverting" expectations... which in their language translates in Superman's pal becoming a CIA agent only to eat a bullet for no good reason and such things

Suicide Squad was hurt by scared producers and a director that also had a foggy, quite literally alternative vision, i don't think anyone would argue it was as much of a mess as BvS

One last point in the next post...

>>93336715
Crashing into a single building 100% by accident isn't murder especially so since we don't even know if anyone inside was injured much less killed.
And there still isn't anything hack-ish about choosing to give us a Superman who makes mistakes.

>>93324991
Gee! It's almost like he just started this super hero thing and can't easily control these super powered soldiers to move them somewhere else!

>>93336680
MCU Cap is like a cartoon version of 50s America.

>>93336741
>You try explain why Batman or any hero didn't show up defending the world from an alien invasion that had a GLOBAL 24 HOURS WARNING beforehand
The 24 hour warning didn't give GPS locations to where they would attack if their demands were not met you dumb mother fucker.

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>>93336741
...WW shacking off all of this problems is the proof that BvS was just flawed because of the situation and weird "artistic" direction. Hell, even MoS wasn't that bad despite it's problems, as wasn't SS as i already said, BvS is literally the black sheep of this cinematic universe, the incestuous product of greedy/dumb producers + misguided creators, nothing will ever be as bad I'm sure

>>93336757
Yet he is universally liked right now.

>>93336792
>nothing will ever be as bad I'm sure
Trank's Fantastic 4 is a hundred billion light years worse.

>>93324517
Whedon will soft reboot him

Nothing in the post JL movies will be acknowledged except for Wonder Woman's

>>93336773
So Batman was researching the alien activities in his office? Why not around the world looking for clues, like in the JL cartoon?

>>93336822
Oh well, i was talking about the DCEU specifically. But if you think about it the problems were the same, weird ideas + retarded producers

>>93326960
>hurr, Lex altering Nuke Codes is stupid
>*convieniently ignores Superman fighting Hentai Tentacles from an alien space ship in MoS*
Newsflash, for all its attempts to be realistic. It only comes across as a Nolan wannabe movie that is still just as ridiculous

>>93336744
He killed people in the Gas Station, as was established before

Also, they outright said that people died in the fight.

Again, fuck your definition of mistakes.

We all know you think Superman is a Mary Sue anyhow

>>93336858
Yeah, but what about when Snyder comes back?

>>93336926
No he did not kill anyone in the gas station.

>>93336873
>>*convieniently ignores Superman fighting Hentai Tentacles from an alien space ship in MoS*
There was nothing silly about that, it's perfectly reasonable the world engine would have a built in defensive system and that being a extension of the Nanites that form their computer computers was a great bit of world building.
>It only comes across as a Nolan wannabe movie
It really doesn't, it has the seriousness and real world portrayal of earth but still is stylistically completely different and much more epic.
> that is still just as ridiculous
There is nothing ridiculous or outlandish about Mos/Bvs besides Lex at times.

>>93336926
>as was established before
When?
>Also, they outright said that people died in the fight.
Perfectly fine with that, doesn't mean Clark himself killed them and it sure as fuck would not be murder regardless.
>>93336926
>We all know you think Superman is a Mary Sue anyhow
Only the Reeves version and any version the writers walk on egg shells around to avoid the villains being competent & their being any weight or consequence to the story.

>>93336819
Because they made his character into a joke.

>>93337065
Dceu fan here, no they didn't.

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>>93337065
I'll never understand this complaint about MCU Cap. It's like people never read a comic with him in it.

>>93337077
His homey 40s America characteristics and mannerisms are treated in humorous fashion to avoid him being corny.

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>>93337039
>Still crying about Reeves/Donner

>>93325509
>people don't want to accept that Cavill's Superman hasn't been born

the faggots responding to this are exactly who you're talking about. And yet they still respond.

Only thing I would say is that he has finally been born. When his S-Curl dropped right before killing Zodday he became Superman. And died for our sins as imperfect humans.

>>93324517
What I don't understand is how movies seem to think they need to reinvent Superman, He's a fantastic character on just what he used to be, He used to be the happiness that came after a disaster, the idea that there's always hope for everything and everyone, a walking metaphor on the idea that hope is humanity's greatest weapon against chaos and fear. He supposed to be Americas perfect son, raised by good american farmers and even in the face of pure armageddon he smiles just to ensure those around him that everything will be okay, even if hes not sure himself.

But in MoS and BvS hes girmdark and questionable, Hes constantly frowning while he keeps talking about wether or not he should be a hero, Pa and Ma Kent on his back about not being a hero too, Pa killing himself just to prove a goddamn point is retarded and then his ghost coming back to tell him again not to save people is double retarded.

Just let him be superman.

>>93324517
No.
I haven't been a fan either, but Cereal Lord has spoken. Say what you will about GL, but he didn't have the authority with that that he had with Wonder Woman, and I doubted his insistence towards its quality up until the first time I saw it.
https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/status/873249002531287042
Hope twinkles on the horizon, OP.

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>>93326971

Yes.

>>93326082
You know what I loved about Wonder Woman? She started naiively idealistic, went through growing pains over one movie, and ended on and refined version of her idealism by the end of the movie in a manner I didn't need to actively search through two movies of muck to rationalize.

>>93324517
ITT: edgefags trying to be clever by ANALyzing why they think Superman doesn't work

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>>93332257
> BATMAN BATMAN BATMAN
They are not even trying to make him like Batman.

>>93324517
I don't know man.

I think one positive thing we can all take away from all this is, no matter how jaded audiences are compared to those of Reeves' times, the general reaction to these films demonstrates that they're not yet callous enough to accept this violent, moody, objectivist take on Superman.

If WB wants him to work, they essentially have to ignore everything Snyder has done with him. He needs to come back as a completely different character.

>>93326757
It's over his head, sadly
We're not going to get any more deconstructions (or risks) bc normies get uncomfortable at anything that tries to be more than 'live-action cartoon'

>>93326960
> brick-laying rebuildo-vision
> flying around the world = time travel
his comment was retarded, nothing about those movies gave a shit about making sense

>>93338002
So, do you guys consider WW shit or something

>>93332257
>twist people's heads off for funsies
Is just about the pinnacle of disingenuity.

>Batman's antithesis
You don't know what that word means.

>>93338070
Snyderfags, once realizing that WW was okay because it was nothing like the awful existing DCEU movies, have had to choose between sticking to their guns and decrying WW or just accepting that things are the way they are and move on.

Guess which road they chose.

>>93338195
I'm a pretty big Snyderfag, Wondy was enjoyable, I'm super happy for it's success. It's not that we're forced to do anything in regard to wondy, it's that everyone took Wondy being good as a second chance to kick a man while he's down and shit on BvS. A man that since being put down a year and a half ago has also lost a daughter.

Wondy is good. Not great. Good. And I liked it. I'll probably even buy it on BR to complete my trinity trilogy. But it isn't resoundingly better than MOS or BvS.

The comparisons are there for many other reasons but I think it's comparable to Cap1 in terms of quality. The first half was better than the second and the final third was a bit of a mess. I think Cap had a stronger ending in the way it killed it's Steve but I think Wondy had a more compelling "boss" fight.

The thing is, I like the heavy hand Snyder has. I like the imagery and I like the visuals. I like the choreography of having Wondy sliding around the background and through the shot of Clark and Bruce when they first meet. I love the crooked halo in that scene. I love almost every image a Snyderfag will post.

Patty gave Wondy heart. Some of the writing was garbage and cliche but it wasn't autistically soulless like some of the writing in BvS was. The problem is Wondy looked terrible in some of those fights. Particularly when clearing the city. She bounced around like a pinball and looked like a PS1 game. And the weighting and speed was completely off. Every movement felt like when Bow Wow was dunking in Like Mike.

Snyder clearly had influence on the beach fight with the amazons. It was almost exactly shots and scenes and choreography clipped from a 300. The bitch using the shield was literally fassbender.

But the rest were garbage.

I think Snyder, if kept in a directing role, needs to cede command of "human" scenes to someone who can convey emotion and heart. Gal is a terrible actress, I freely admit it, but Patty found a way to make her work.

>>93338419
I dunno man. Look a few posts above. It's a pretty telling revelation into the headpsace of the average Snyder fan that they try to use "Cartoon" as a pejorative on the COMICS AND CARTOONS board.

>>93338450
even the new animated stuff is too 'real' for these snowflakes

don't worry, you'll get plenty more "it's not what you deserve, it's what you believe.. AND I BELIEVE IN LOVE" bubblegum in Joss's new MCU-lite

>>93338419

>it's that everyone took Wondy being good as a second chance to kick a man while he's down and shit on BvS. A man that since being put down a year and a half ago has also lost a daughter

Don't turn this into a morality issue to make yourself feel smart. Hating his movies has nothing to do with disliking him as a person or not feeling sympathy for his child dying.

>>93338564

>don't worry, you'll get plenty more "it's not what you deserve, it's what you believe.. AND I BELIEVE IN LOVE" bubblegum in Joss's new MCU-lite

Remember everyone, only Marvel movies have heroic proclamations that the audience enjoy.

>The best DCEU movie is the one where he's the least involved
Really gets the synapses firing

>>93338635
>Don't turn this into a morality issue to make yourself feel smart.

I didn't. That was a factual statement about snyderfags and their motivation. And besides not needing to "make myself feel smarter", which is absurd to think one would do on 4chan, how would resorting to an emotional argument prove my mental acuity?

>>93338419
>The problem is Wondy looked terrible in some of those fights. Particularly when clearing the city. She bounced around like a pinball and looked like a PS1 game. And the weighting and speed was completely off. Every movement felt like when Bow Wow was dunking in Like Mike.
I don't know how someone can argue this against her as if the end fight in BvS was any better.

>A man that since being put down a year and a half ago has also lost a daughter.
Sweet Christmas are you really trying to do this.

>>93338635
They're dipping into the Disney / Marvel / Nu Star Wars shallow inoffensive samey carnival ride popcorn flick puddle, sure

Bc gen audiences weren't intelligent enough to handle deconstructions - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhR5dLV7d0w

Enjoy gibberish platitudes? You're in luck, we're not getting complex themes or characters anymore, just "I believe in Love teehee" buzzfeedery

RIP Kino :/

>>93338419
Maybe if his movies weren't such shit his daughter wouldn't have killed herself.

>>93338819
I love when "deconstruction" gets tossed around.
It's always for shitty genre-based entertainment with shallow references for pseudo-intellectuals to pretend there's a hint of depth in their summer action movie. At least you didn't use kino I guess.

>>93338810
>Sweet Christmas are you really trying to do this.
>Sweet Christmas
Blow your brains out Bernardin.

>>93338819

>They're dipping into the Disney / Marvel / Nu Star Wars shallow inoffensive samey carnival ride popcorn flick puddle, sure

I can smell your fedora from here.

>Bc gen audiences weren't intelligent enough to handle deconstructions

It had nothing interesting to say about these characters or new avenues to deconstruct these heroes. The notion that a deconstruction is inherently more worthwhile then a straightforward superhero story is childish faux-intellectualism disguised as enlightenment.

>You're in luck, we're not getting complex themes or characters anymore, just "I believe in Love teehee" buzzfeedery

Yes, clearly we need more DO YOU BLEED and artistic imagery and framing stolen from better movies.

>>93338913
After you.

>>93338905
To be fair Snyder's wife/producer said they were doing deconstructions.
Of course she said that it was a bad idea that they were doing it but we can ignore that part or flat out deny it happened to suit the argument.

Snyder fandom is just contrarianism at work. That's why the greatest insult these guys can possibly think to give other stuff is focused around "general audiences liked it!" It's just a bunch of word salad nonsense going reee at "normies"

>>93338936
If you think MoS + BvS had 'nothing interesting to say' about these characters, i feel bad for you

It's fine to think they didn't say it well, but c'mon

Also, I've no idea what's wrong w/ do you bleed or the excalibur / renaissance homages?

>>93338960

>To be fair Snyder's wife/producer said they were doing deconstructions.

It's the exact same deconstruction we've gotten since fucking Watchmen.

>hey you know the kinds of people who would do this for a living would have be severely psychologically damaged individuals after realising that they can't change human nature

Wow Snyder, really breaking new ground with he same message repeated by every hack who read Watchmen and thought they should repeat it but worse.

BvS reminds me of all those terrible "deep" thriller movies we got after Se7en came out and a gaggle of retards tried copy it without understanding why it worked.

>>93338936
>Yes, clearly we need more DO YOU BLEED and artistic imagery and framing stolen from better movies.

I hope you hated Logan. As it did everything you bitched about in this comment.

>They're dipping into the Disney / Marvel / Nu Star Wars shallow inoffensive samey carnival ride popcorn flick puddle, sure
literally fox's selling point with the R rating.

>It had nothing interesting to say about these characters
literally nothing new to say. "Heroes don't exist"? Real original.

>The notion that a deconstruction is inherently more worthwhile then a straightforward superhero story is childish faux-intellectualism disguised as enlightenment.

yet he couldn't wear his costume once in 17 years because it's childish.

>Yes, clearly we need more DO YOU BLEED and artistic imagery and framing stolen from better movies.
Like the 5 minutes of Shane? In a movie that tried to be Shane with muties? The same super serious movie that has an autistic clone as one of the villains. The same movie with a little girl ripping through bone as if adamantium is a laser?

The problem I have with people who make these comments about BvS is you see them almost exactly a year later lauding the SAME exact stuff in a different movie.

>>93339070
Does this kid really think Clark's arc was just an ape of Manhattan?

Jfc, Deb was completely 100% right

>>93339125
>The problem I have with people who make these comments about BvS is you see them almost exactly a year later lauding the SAME exact stuff in a different movie.
>in a different movie.
>different

>>93339125

>if you don't like one movie that references things, you can't like any movie that references any movie ever

Is this the new hill you're going to die on?

Logan had things in it that I could connect to other then the references.

>>93339142

>Does this kid really think Clark's arc was just an ape of Manhattan?

Show me where I said that Superman is a direct copy of Manhattan.

And keep in mind if you don't or go "well you mentioned Watchmen, so I inferred" I'm going to copy-paste "Show me where I said that Superman is a direct copy of Manhattan." until you either admit you're wrong and I didn't say that.

>>93339206
>It's okay to be a hypocrite. The names on the movies are different. So I can be a hypocrite.

>>93339252

>I don't like the car chase in this movie

>THEN YOU CAN NEVER LIKE ANY CAR CHASE IN ANY MOVIE EVER AGAIN OR YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE

This is you.

>>93339252
>thinking apples and oranges are different is hypocrisy

>>93339125
This logic only works if you assume Superman is an edgy Wolverine-esque anti-hero. Otherwise why would they be comparable?
Is it because you're autistic and can't read context?

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>>93324517
>it's another autistic DCEU argument thread
The gifts that keep on giving. Threads like these on /co/ and /tv/ are fucking hilarious.

>>93339070
>It's the exact same deconstruction we've gotten since fucking Watchmen

>>93339243
>I never said it was a direct copy! You're right, it's a completely different deconstruction

Good talk, champ :)

>>93339243
You literally said "Wow Snyder, really breaking new ground with he same message repeated by every hack who read Watchmen and thought they should repeat it but worse." in relation to BvS and it's "deconstruction". If that wasn't your intention YOU made the mistake in not presenting your argument clearly. The other anon read correctly what you put forward.

>Is this the new hill you're going to die on?
Anon raised the hill, I simply pointed out it was foolish to make that a general complaint. So it would appear we agree. But, as we've seen you aren't very good at comprehension if you couldn't comprehend what you had actually been writing above.

I'm guessing the retarded characters in Logan were easy to connect with, my autistic friend?

>>93338419
t. Marvelkids

>Wondy
kys

>>93338900
xDddd

*tips fedora*

>>93339352

>You literally said "Wow Snyder, really breaking new ground with he same message repeated by every hack who read Watchmen and thought they should repeat it but worse." in relation to BvS and it's "deconstruction". If that wasn't your intention YOU made the mistake in not presenting your argument clearly. The other anon read correctly what you put forward.

Show me where I said that Superman is a direct copy of Manhattan.

Hell, find the word Manhattan in that post at all. It shouldn't be hard to find, you want me to screencap it for you so you can look real hard and see if its there.

>all this stupid arguing over superhero movies
Kek. I'd love to live in a world where company wars were my biggest problem too.

>>93339381
LOLLLLL you're responding to a person who's been ripping marvel in this very thread.

I simply love when faggots make assumptions based off of... what? Me calling a character on my pull Wondy?

I'll call Wonder Woman whatever the fuck I want to call her, faggot.

>>93339411
>If I say tall people are gay it doesn't mean that I said Bill Walton is gay. Show me where I said Bill Walton is gay. In fact, I never used the name Bill Walton. I never said it.

>>93339433
>I'm in fact not a marvelkid because I said so haha btfo

This retardation level isn't actually possible.

>>93339467
>You're an aardvark even if you say you aren't

>>93339465

>If I say tall people are gay it doesn't mean that I said Bill Walton is gay. Show me where I said Bill Walton is gay. In fact, I never used the name Bill Walton. I never said it.

Show me where I said that Superman is a direct copy of Manhattan.

I'm still waiting. Either that or just admit you put words in my mouth, which is what every single argument with a Snyder fanboy is like. Even when you're caught, you just double down.

>>93339433
This is the board that goes REEEEEE if you type Spiderman without the - in the middle

But I'm pretty sure he's baiting

May I ask why arguing over these movies are such a personal gain to you, anons? Does it really matter that much if people dislike the movies you like and vice versa? Why does this have to be such a dick-measuring contest?

I don't understand it.

>>93339509
Show me where you didn't.

>>93329325
This
The biggest issue with Superman right now is that everyone is unironically Lex Zuckerberg: they think of Superman as a godlike character and they refuse to allow non-human-esque characters to be good people (if it doesn't have or display a human nature, it has to be vilified)

As a general query, which writer or which run of Superman do you think ought to be turned into a movie

>>93339582
>May I ask why arguing over these movies are such a personal gain to you, anons?
because it's hilarious. a bit of lite trolling and the snyderfags shit themselves every time.

>>93325200
That red line is nowhere near the edge of the city. You can see buildings well beyond that.

>>93339582
Because if you liked Snyder's take and want to see more you're literally berated for that view. And it comes from literally every single fucking angle. Fuckin GiTS reviews mentioned BvS because they wanted to compare bombs which isn't even applicable because one of them made 800 million dollars.

if it wasn't some cardinal sin to like MoS and BvS it wouldn't be such a fucking problem. But when you like something, and are actually hyped for more, but are being told you are retarded or that your cancer it draws a response.

Especially when company wars were a problem before the movie shit started. Then Disney faggots just kept up with the Evans posting and acting as if the MCU was their first born.

The DC company fags either double down and become snyder fags or they hate the very things they should love because somebody told them they should.

>>93339637
It is funny reading these anons argue over movies. May I ask your opinion on why you think they take it so personally, anon?

>>93325250
I actually think that was the stupidest choice he coulda made. There wasn't just 1 but like 3 enemies there .... going blind rage mode on ONE of them just for threatening mommy leaves the other 2 free to see this extreme emotional outburst and use her as a hostage to control him.

If I were one of them I'd be like "Oh shit, he went full retard over her. You go after them, Imma grab this human he cares so much about and meet up with yall".

>>93324517
>Man of Steel 2 will introduce Supergirl, who will most likely steal the show and audiences will gravitate more toward her.


I actually think that's VERY likely. SG on TV seems to be doing well enough and part of why people love WW is cause she's optimistic and actually gives a shit about people ... which I assume would be the natural way to bring in SG as the noob hero to things.

But knowing Zack she could be a depressing Goth who ironically wears a Japaneses school girl uniform.

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>>93329325
>>93339626
you guys need to read more comics. Superman's greatest quality is that he is flawed, just like us, but never stops trying to do good with the gifts he is given.

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>>93341520
>SG on TV seems to be doing well enough

>>93341697
Is it being canned?

Cause if not then it's doing "well enough".

>>93338419
>it's that everyone took Wondy being good as a second chance to kick a man while he's down and shit on BvS. A man that since being put down a year and a half ago has also lost a daughter.

What an insipid appeal to emotion. I feel bad for anyone who loses a kid, but the guy's films are shit and nobody should pretend otherwise simply because he's going through a period of loss.

>The comparisons are there for many other reasons but I think it's comparable to Cap1 in terms of quality. The first half was better than the second and the final third was a bit of a mess.

I agree. I consider this to be about significantly better than anything Snyder has directed, though.

>Snyder clearly had influence on the beach fight with the amazons.

Yeah, and it was one of the weakest parts of the film. All the action scenes save the one where Diana pushes over the top of the trenches were weak. That slow-fast-slow-fast shit in the beach fight was cringey as fuck, I didn't think anyone still did that anymore/

>>93339675
>Because if you liked Snyder's take and want to see more you're literally berated for that view.
So don't talk about it.
That's the thing that doesn't seem to sink in. Constant defense just encourages people to bait you. If the movie was really good you'd have shut up about it by now; people only routinely come back to shit things. Especially here.

>>93336757

>50s America
>Ever taking orders from a black guy with a disability

Police forces literally set fire buses full of black people performing sit ins across the country a decade later. Unless 50s Brooklyn was a haven for metropolitan and progressive cultures, I really doubt that.

>>93341819
This.

Especially don't spend the next two years after one of his films making the same threads over and over, encouraging people to cum internet fite me bruv over and over, because you're so fucking asshurt about the critical reception to these films you feel an inane need to correct the record somehow.

I consider it a sign of deep insecurity that people like you have been unable to drop this, and I'm not at all surprised that people poke fun at you constantly. It's not as if you've been agreeable yourself - you've spent every day since MoS trying to whip up some insane cult that blames all bad opinions in regard to your movies as the result of an 'evil marveldrone conspiracy'.

Just fucking step back for a second and look at what you've become.

>>93341747
>I consider this to be about significantly better than anything Snyder has directed, though.

Exactly why people ree around here.

>>93341819
So lets get this straight we should stop talking about something we like because people will shitpost about it?

Blow your brains out faggot.

>>93341899
>Just fucking step back for a second and look at what you've become.
Say the people that can't accept that others like a movie so they have to viciously bait and meme about it for just as long. Yeah, it's insecure to defend it still. I have no problem admitting it. And I've stated why above. The problem is you people don't see any parallel with being so obsessed with hating the movie that you are still shitposting this rabidly.

I'm defending something I like which still gets shit on to this day (like in this thread). You're making threads shitting on a movie/multiple movies you hate. And you act like you're any less pathetic than people who defend it.

>>93342070
>So lets get this straight we should stop talking about something we like because people will shitpost about it?
Nobody posts about things they like on /co/.
That's how I know these threads are bait.
If you want a safe space to talk about your movies use another platform.

>>93342070
Some people like the Thor movies. Plenty of people think they're shit. Nobody's making the daily defense bait threads (now that the dust has settled, I just saw this, etc) for the Thor movies. They talked about them for a couple weeks got on with their lives, and now if it comes up they say "yeah they've got problems maybe the next one will be better".

But you can't do that. You can't even hear "just drop it" without telling people to kill themselves.

>>93324517
I gave up on the dceu when I heard Zack Snyder was at the helm.

>>93342209
I never said I wanted such. I was the one that was told to stop discussing/defending something.

if you want a safespace to shitpost about things chose another forum.

>>93342270
Kill yourself faggot. Nobody is making "So howabout that TERRIBLE THOR MOVIE" threads or "Face it, we'll never get Thor" threads.

It's beyond disingenuous, in this thread of all places, to claim that defense of the movie still pops up unwarranted.

>>93342070
>Exactly why people ree around here.

Because people didn't like a film?

How fucking inane.

>Say the people that can't accept that others like a movie so they have to viciously bait and meme about it for just as long.

I'm sorry, but you brought this on yourselves. You guys could not stop evangelizing your films for a minute. You started this weird aggressive campaign of shitposting as soon as the dust settled on MoS, barging in to other threads to call everyone marveldrones and constantly reposting the same obvious "I can't accept that MoS was bad, come fite me" threads over and over and over. Your response to the poor reception was immediately vitriolic, you instantly started weaving this grand conspiracy shit about people trying to sabotage DC, about everyone being marveldrones, about other people being of lower intelligence simply because they didn't like a film.

ANY time these films are brought up, you do this. Often when they're not brought up, you do this. And people saw this and hated you for it, and now you have to just fucking deal with it and lie in the bed you shat in.

>I'm defending something I like which still gets shit on to this day (like in this thread).

This thread was CLEARLY made by someone who disliked these films and recognized the way people in general have reacted to Snyder's Superman, and is asking if he's beyond saving. Did you really, really, really think that this was the thread to go to if you wanted to hear nothing but unmitigated praise?

If you disagreed with the central premise of the thread, on which all discussion hangs, why are you here?

>>93342392
>So howabout that TERRIBLE THOR MOVIE

People have definitely made threads like this.

Frankly, though, most people just didn't consider Thor as much of a trainwreck of BvS or MoS, even if it was pretty poor. And, perhaps most importantly, LESS PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THOR.

Superman is a character a lot of people care about and want to see done well.

>>93342630
>I'm sorry, but you brought this on yourselves. You guys could not stop evangelizing your films for a minute. You started this weird aggressive campaign of shitposting as soon as the dust settled on MoS, barging in to other threads to call everyone marveldrones and constantly reposting the same obvious "I can't accept that MoS was bad, come fite me" threads over and over and over. Your response to the poor reception was immediately vitriolic, you instantly started weaving this grand conspiracy shit about people trying to sabotage DC, about everyone being marveldrones, about other people being of lower intelligence simply because they didn't like a film. ANY time these films are brought up, you do this. Often when they're not brought up, you do this. And people saw this and hated you for it, and now you have to just fucking deal with it and lie in the bed you shat in.
this, literally all of this, can be said from the complete opposite point of view.
>If you disagreed with the central premise of the thread, on which all discussion hangs, why are you here?
If you want a safe space to talk shit about a movie why are you here?

>>93342775
>this, literally all of this, can be said from the complete opposite point of view.

Not really. Marvelfags seemed t accept that, say, Thor and Thor 2, were sub-par and moved on. They didn't start an insane campaign to shove Thor in everyone's faces at all times in years to come, in the vain hope that this would change everyone's mind somehow.

>If you want a safe space to talk shit about a movie why are you here?

People genuinely were not talking shit until the DCEU defense force arrived to try to convince everyone that the films were perfect. The thread was made to evaluate whether making Superman popular with regular folks as part of the DCEU was still possible. Critiquing and discussing =/= talking shit. Only a slavish company loyalist like yourself conflates the two, because your insecure hurt fee fees have robbed you of critical thinking.

Notice that all the immediately angry, shitposty responses are from DCEUfags telling the OP to kill themselves or that the DCEU is 'kino'.

Once again, you ruined all possible discussion with your overzealous garbagespeak.

>>93343113
>Once again, you ruined all possible discussion with your overzealous garbagespeak.
The lack of self-awareness is absurd here.

>>93332257
Classic Superfaggotry....Blame Batman

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Give Patty Jenkins a shot at doing Superman or Supergirl. She did really well with Wonder Woman.

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>>93341535
>>93335489
>>93332303

Guys you need to learn how to read or maybe I didn't spell it out enough. I said, explicitly he has no HUMAN flaws, not that he was flawless.

In context, repeating myself here, that statement is countering where writers and normies project their own basic human thinking onto someone who's not even human. "If I was Superman, I'd just kill people all the time, he's boring because he doesn't do that!" -- that's the sentiment saying "he doesn't have human flaws" is going against.

Morrison goes into this in All-Star Superman when Lex gets his powers and then he gets the AWARENESS Superman gained through those powers. Why he feels so much, so much than we're capable of so he has a different way of looking at world, one that's entirely unique to him because he's entirely a unique creature.

Superman doesn't have human flaws. He has Superman flaws.

>>93343225
>hurr I can't argue with all this logic so imma just insult you

Yep, companywars faggotry at its tip toppest.

Anyway, he's right.

The people that derailed this thread were DCEU fans coming in to throw shit at the slightest suggestion that something may not have worked in BvS and MoS.

The thread wasn't even about those movies being bad. It was about how the general public have not taken the Cavill's Superman and whether this can be turned around. You are the only person lacking any kind of awareness here.

>>93339626

>As a general query, which writer or which run of Superman do you think ought to be turned into a movie

I don't think any one writer needs to be used more than the others. But off the top of my head I'd say Grant Morrison's All-Star Superman needs to be looked at/adapted more. Just because it shows WHY Superman acts like he acts and does what he does.

>>93330368

Yeah and I literally said I don't care about the culture as large soo... Not for sure where you're getting that from.

>>93330284

>They really need something like JL/JLU and the DCAU - and while there's a lot to like in Justice League Action, it's a middling product, a B-/C+ greatest remix tribute band type creation.

I want to revitilize JLU. I'm kind of writing for it now.

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>>93324976
oh here we go this shit agian, lets spout some random ass bullshit without making sure i'm correct before posting

Also a fucking storage silo thats not even in use since its not harvest season