Was Carol Danvers a mistake?

Obviously.

>>93294995
No, but making her an ugly dyke was. I miss the real Ms. Marvel.

People like to forget that the black costume WAS female empowerment.

How did Feminists go from not wanting to cover their ankles to wanting to go back?

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>>93294995
Yes. We already have the superior Danvers.

>>93295021
People like to forget Carol was still boring before the change, too.

>>93294995
Tumblr fans
Radical liberal leftist fans
Feminism
Bulldyke body
Short lesbian hair
Try hard leader
Try hard wonder woman
Muslim sidekick legacy

NuCarol is literally Aids and HIV

>>93295061
At least you could jerk to her tho

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>>93295060
This. Kara > linda> carol.

>>93295083
Pretty much any other blonde Danvers > Carol.

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>>93295060
Starfire is a better Carol aswell

Marvel can't get their shit together

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>>93295091

>>93295121
That too.

>>93295076
At least the legacy hero was smart enough to recognize this.

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>>93295002

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>>93295163
Best girl.

>>93295076
>Try hard wonder woman
She wishes.

>>93295078
This. RIP fapbait Carol.

>>93295021
Because men were enjoying it too

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>>93295021
>How did Feminists go from not wanting to cover their ankles to wanting to go back?
Easy. We're on the 4th feminist wave right now. You have to understand that every new wave blames the previous one for "being too soft" or "getting it wrong".
It works like that with most people and movements, specially with morally empty husks who convince they're "fighting the good fight": they always end up tearing themselves apart.
Remember when half of the liberals jumped on Bernie, an old jewish politician with socialist roots, for not being lefty enough?
Another example is how the LGBT community started to shit on gay men on a daily basis when the other groups became big enough; ironic and sad when you think about it.

Most of the people who "push" a movement or an agenda are just fucking insane, man.

>>93295174
Kamala still needs to not exist anymore

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>>93294995
No. Carol is the greatest.

>>93294995

I honestly think she could work, even with the new costume, if you just gave her the long hair back, and her statuesque amazonian proportions back. Even with her forced into pants, you could still make it work.

That and make every writer of her read the Claremont run of Ms Marvel.

>>93295076
Except her legacy told her to fuck off, too.

>>93294995
The one on the left was drawn by a female. To hell with her I guess.

>>93294995
Is Carol the most pathetic, miserable, sad excuse of a character of all time?

>>93295579
How long till the next wave?

Has any drawfag ever tried to make a version of her new costume that retains the appearance of the classic one?

ITT: Everything that exists needs to give me a boner or it's worthless

Is an internet full of free porn not enough? Grow up.

>>93297757
Based.

>>93299165
A generation shift is considered to be about 15 years.
I would say that between 2020 and 2025 we should start to see new levels of retardation. Yes, even compared with what we have nowadays.
Anyway, the start of a new wave always comes with a noticeable clash between feminists that divides the movement in two.

>>93294995
No.

Ms. Mohammad was, though.

>before female empowerment
Jesus fucking christ /co/, are all female characters just fapbait? All female characters were never empowered before modern times? All female characters that show skin are meant to be weak and feeble?

>>93295076
>NuCarol is literally Aids and HIV
LITERALLY?

Well, then, in that case, I hope you catch Carol.

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new Ms Marvel needs to be a cyborg with alien tencacle arms and fire horns and insect legs

i LIKE the dyke hair
there, i said it

>>93300594
Setting my clock now, honestly excited to see what happens next

>>93300222
Carol never had any other use, she's a terrible character. You'd have a point if this was Wondy or something.

>>93294995
No, because it looked like she gained some halfway decent perspective and lost her tiny baby arms

>>93295076
too bad marvel hates you

threads like these give SJWs more power by giving them more proof that people perceived women showing skin as weak

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>>93295060
>>93295083

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>>93302322
I kinda miss new 52 kara hairstyle.

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>>93302374
>tfw when I played Saints Row 4 again and picked the Laura Bailey voice to LARP as potty mouthed president Kara.

>>93302412
I kinda wish Kari Wahlgren could voice Kara again.

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Linda only media appareance.

>>93295083
>>93295060

Do you think we'll ever get Linda back?
I enjoyed her for what she was.

>>93302374
Supergirls outfit and hair was the one thing I liked the most in n52.
It should have stays this way in Rebirth.

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>>93302517
Last appareance was in convergence. Non speaking cameo.

>>93294995
>empowering a female means she has to resemble a dude as much as possible
What did they mean by this?

>>93302557
The cape was perfect.

>>93294995
No, and her new costume was fine. the problem is the artist Marvel hired for her solo after KSD. The guys a literal faggot who's afraid a of tits and just about every female he draws is hideous. But since he the one who recreated her image other artist use his model.

>>93295061
At least before the change she wasn't pretending to be front and center of everything, and she fit where she was.

Now it's like "Hey, this character is SO important and cool, everyone!" despite her getting more bland and stuffy and obnoxious.

>>93303493
Carol has steadily become more and more full of herself, right? Like... more of a self-righteous bitch. It's hard to read anything with her in it, where she's painted to be some fucking authority on what's right.

>>93294995
Tfw Carol used to be my favorite woman superhero, but I hate everything with her since like 2012.

I even like the Captain Marvel costume, but the increasing dykisation of her face/hair is terrible.

Atleast Carol looks good & fun in MvCI.

>>93303988
>Tfw Carol used to be my favorite woman superhero
Well, you only have yourself to blame.

From the looks of it, she was really hot before SJWs happened.

>>93304708
Being thick and large framed was part of her damn character. She'd complain to other female heroes that she had the body of a mom and was too big. Villains even talked shit about her. She was a broad shoulder, wide hipped service lady. She had meat on her bones and it made her self conscious from time to time. Fuck that though, she's gotta be built like a slender fit dude.

>>93294995
>females are empowered by looking more like men
kinda sad desu

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>>93294995
no

>>93294995

I like her new costume, since it looks like Mar-vell's with the scheme reversed. I like the long hair better, and nuCarol has 0 personality.

>>93300594
What if the next-gen backlash reverts feminism to Susan B. Anthony-tier?

>>93295076
This is correct

The butch dyke look is very popular

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I like Carol, Carol is good.

>>93304953
Not even the character itself is very popular.

>>93294995

I just can't get into the character. She's so generic and I've always found military origin heroes boring. Blond hair, blue eyes, big tits, vague energy powers combined with the standard flying brick powerset. Both "before" and "after" are just boring as fuck.

Hopefully the MCU reinvents the character. I couldn't get into Captain America or Wonder Woman before "The Winter Soldier" and "Wonder Woman" respecitvely, and now I've got a whole new appreciation for them.

>>93302412
Bailey recorded for SR3, too. A lot more lines for her including singing. I'm still playing SR3 after beating 3 and 4. 4 sucked.

>>93294995
>Old costumes > alterations of current costume > dog poo on a stick > current costume

I'm a visual person, if I don't like what I'm looking at, I'm not a happy camper, if they just changed the shitty suit I'd be able to at least start calling her Captain.

Don't understand why most characters (male and female) are running around in just plain awful looking designs these days, Quicksilvers current look honestly triggers me harder than a tumblrina looking at a picture of a pretty girl enjoying a roast beef dinner with her straight white employed boyfriend.

>>93304953
no it isn't

>>93294995
To be fair, old Carol was Marvel's idea of female empowerment at the time too.

>>93300745
If we're getting primal here, Anon, all females in general are fapbait.

What the fuck is OP's image even trying to state? That weak women show skin?

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>>93305744
Autist using a picture of Sana Takeda Carol to say she was a better character back then.

She was a good character then and is a good character now.

>>93305897
How high must one be to say such a thing.

>left
Japanese artist
>right
Western artist

I think we know the real issue here.

>>93306106
That when you refer to marvel's current artistic staff as "artists" you're using the term very loosely?

>>93306220
Marvel is currently hiring a pair of Japanese artists what are you talking about

>>93305121
can you post a picture of quicksilver's current one? they change his design every 3 seconds so it's hard to keep track.

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>>93306530
never mind, I think I found it, the one with the stupid fast forward symbol on his chest, holy shit why?

had to google his late 90's one to wash my eyes.

>>93303493
That was happening before the change too.

>>93302374
Is New 52 Supergirl good?

>>93301003
the SJWs are right (to a point), the /pol/acks are right (to a point), there will never be an end to this fruitless war. Nobody will ever be happy.

>>93294995
Women are always a mistake. Female superheroes are a mistake times a hundred.

>>93301003
I rather if we just get rid of women media in general.
Clearly they cannot be pleased, so why bother including them at all?

>>93299110
Absolutely.

>>93300222
This from people who want Steve and Bucky together.
Or Xavier and Mags.
Or Dean and Castiel
Or..

>>93302593
Dykes hate men. But they want to resemble men, smell like men, act like men. It's the "even lesbians use dicks to pleasure themselves" dichotomy.

I dont hate Carol.
She's been trying to hit the big leagues for YEARS.

But her dyke cut does me no favors.

>>93294995
First time I saw Ms Marvel was when she was Warbird, it was the issue of Iron Man where he sought her out to help her because she was recovering from being an alcoholic.

I liked how she was essentially what a grade A superheroine ought to be, but she had this anger about being treated bad, had normal human problems and yet was working through all those issues to become a real heroine.

So, thanks, Marvel for ruining that.

>>93309393
Your fault for liking a woman superhero,
A woman has no place in superheroism. They have no justice.

>>93309393
But she's still exactly like that, except with fans who don't know shit about her. (In-universe, I mean).

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>>93294995
Not initially, but she's since spent several decades being defined by mistakes. Which is typical for a lot of female characters from around that same period, but I think Carol got the worst of it from time to time.

>>93309393
No, every female character has to be super strong and without flaws.

See this, is why ultimately, nobody can write good female characters. It's the guybrush threepwood problem.

Men can have tons of flaws and still look cool,put em through hell, abuse them and give them a horrible life but if you write the same character and flip the genders, you're gonna find yourself in a ton of problems with a million people.

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>>93295655
Kamala's recent hook of having a mentor/inspirational figure and realizing that person (Carol) is a piece of shit, is more interesting than Carol has been for the past...30 years?

Hell, I still feel Carol was more interesting as a problem Rogue had to deal with. Because Rogue is a better character.

>>93309507
Rogue a shit, Carol is way better.

>>93309354
It's pure envy.

>>93309437
Nah, old Carol realized just what a piece of shit she was and could be and knew she wasn't freaking Captain America to be passing moral judgment on people.

Nu Carol is a goddamned fascist who acts like whatever she says is the law.

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>>93309520
But even "echo in Rogue's head" Carol was better than modern Carol. I read enough of CW2 and a few Ultimates issues, Marvel has no idea who Carol is. Is she overworked, but well intentioned? Is she a do as she pleases mega bitch? Is she an incompetent fascist? I think the movie will give her a good direction, but Marvel has to keep Bendis off her. Bendis makes her the most easy to hate character imaginable.

>>93309559
Old Carol had also no good stories.

New Carol doesn't have, too, but at least nobody is idolizing her like you OldCarolfags.

>>93309520
Nice bait.

>>93309520
Carol CAN be great.
But Marvel NEEDS to stop pushing her so fucking hard that I'm coughing up blood. Stop trying to manufacture people liking her by making her an "IN-SETTING" hero. They literally tried to make her a hero by killing Iron Man.

Iron Man. Who's saved the world god knows how many times, and is a known billionaire, philanthropist...playboy industrialist in the setting.

You dont have to build someone's bones on the ashes of another character's reputation.

If they did the change back before everything went to shit "Captain" Carol would've been handled and received so much better.

In the first civil war days she had a good ongoing solo, was on a number of teams as a prominent member, and even leading the Mighty Avengers (With Iron Man pulling the strings but still), she was still running on the confidence boost from her time spent in Wanda's little make believe world, and most importantly was still likable to a BROAD spectrum of people.

But instead what did they do? The brought Mar-vell back from the dead just to say "Go for it babe", and then instead of establishing her as an actual character in a prominent new position they just crammed her into a bunch of books making meaningless cameo's worrying more about exposure than quality development, saying this is how it is now, deal with it, put her in a terribly written solo meant to launch her into the public eye, and gave her a radically different design so that people who had read her for years wouldn't even know who she was if they weren't told before hand.

>>93309574
See
>>93296334

And they've died down a bit but DykeCarol would get a daily (at least) appreciation thread, not to mention the Spider-womanxCarol threads. And that's only here. Casuals kiss the ground she steps on even if they don't actually buy her stuff.

So, I hope it's comfortable inside that bubble anon.

>>93309611
>Casuals kiss the ground she steps on
They don't even know who the fuck she is.

And the Carol threads and "Carol is great!" posts come from three retards, one of which is you. Luckily, three retards can't sustain a book or a terrible character.

Keep treating Brian Reed like he is Alan Moore. People will never take you retards seriously.

>>93309592
This. Everyone knows Spider-man is a hero and most people love him, but in-universe he's very controversial, or at least used to be.

Characters who are grade-A heroes in-setting have earned it, like Cap and the Fantastic Four. Hell, a large quantity of Avengers members would be criticized by Marvel's citizens until they proved themselves.

The change into "Marvel's premier heroine" should have been organic and not forced and immediate like it was.

>>93309637
Nigger, I haven't picked up a Carol book (or anything by Marvel) in years.

But nice strawman, like I said, I hope it's comfy in your basement.

>>93309694
You're a retard spamming "CAROL IS GREAT!1" posts and offended because people don't like a shitty character with no good stories and I am the one in the bubble here?

>>93300745
>Jesus fucking christ /co/, are all female characters just fapbait?

YES! Ò_Ó

Well, not "just" fapbait, but it's a nontrivial percentage of why they're on the page.

I'm pretty sure more people know about Carol on chans because people consider her a waifu or hate her, but your average person just knows she's a character in a lot of books. But who cares, because most of those books don't sell. She's waiting for her movie to make her a real character, because Marvel movies are written by people who aren't Bendis, thus they have a chance of being good. And once the movies establish who she'll be for the next forever, we'll get a watered down version of that written by Bendis.

>>93309716
I thought reading comprehension was taught at a basic level.

>I used to like old Carol.
>I despise new Carol, I hope she dies.
>I am glad everyone shit on her.

Now fuck off and find someone who is actually arguing against you to throw your bitch fit at.

>>93309507
You got a page I can see of her realizing this?

>>93309858
No, retard.

You said that casuals idolize her and that people who don't like her live in a bubble. You literally spammed a "Carol is the greatest!" post.

She never had any good story. Brian Reed is no Alan Moore. Casuals don't know who the fuck she is. She is not even the greatest flying-brick blonde girl called Danvers. You managed to be wrong on all issues.

I have no time for shitty-stories fetishists.

>>93309952
>Brian Reed is no Alan Moore
Another anon here.
You're the only one that says this and you say it in every single thread. You're as much of an annoying faggot as the constant Carol-Jessica shippers.

>>93309902
Kamala and Carol have their falling out in the CW2 tie in issues of Ms. Marvel. I overstate how bad Kamala's opinion of Carol is, but it's clear Kamala is finally standing up to her mentor's fucked up belief system, even though she knows it causes a split between them. I haven't read much Marvel since then.

On the subject of Kamala, am I the only one who thinks her being an inhuman is the worst part of the character? I mean, everytime I see her with the other inhumans I think "Oh, that's right, she's an inhuman". It just doesn't fit... probably because Kamala isn't portrayed as an isolationist asshole who only helps people when it is convenient for her.

>>93310044
Because the way they talk about Brian Reed's run one would think it is Watchmen-tier, instead of Loeb's Supergirl-tier.

And nope, I am not the one happy about reading trash for lesbo headcanon pairings, I am, therefore, better than these losers.

She's not a bad character but they fucked her over hard when she turned into Captain Marvel and took away the flaws and the things that made her interesting because it doesn't fit the YAS KWEEN tumblr character that they want her to be.

>>93309598
Wishful thinking, even back then they would have cocked it up, it wouldn't have been as bad, but it would've still gone badly.

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Carol is cute! CUTE!

>>93310191
If you like men.

>>93310191
Men aren't cute anon, men are hawt, and that dude right there is hawt.

>>93310099
I found Reed's Ms Marvel more entertaining and a more unique story than Moore's Watchmen
Moore's Swamp Thing was better than Reed's Ms Marvel though

>>93310062
That's kinda Kamala's schtick in Secret Warriors. Trying to be the down to earth, "let's not be assholes" voice of the Inhuman team.

>>93294995
That costume, and hair is yes.

I don't understand how I can hate that look so much yet when you make tiny alterations to it I can accept it, I mean Janet's redesign of it in AoU was great, the Black as Silver one in time runs out was an improvement, hell even the avengers cartoon gets the suit right (ignoring everything from the neck up)

>>93310263
Printed.

Carolfags are illiterates confirmed.

>>93295076
/thread

>>93295076
This

Carol went from a comic book fans character to a non comic book fans agenda hate character

>>93310752
Hey now, Watchmen isn't "entertaining". It's depressing and bleak as shit.

I didn't like the old costume either.

>>93295579
both sides are just as bad. I'm sitting here in the middle like What the hell?

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Doesn't Carol have amnesia?

I think they forgot.

>>93295021
> people
More like /pol/ false flagging and moving the goalpost

>>93295076
> being this upset over a book you claim to not read yet know so well

>>93294995

all they have to do is give her a big futa cock.

problem solved.

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What did Capcom mean by this?

>>93294995
>marvel thinks the only way to make a female superhero interesting is to make her look like a man

i feel like this is something tumblr/SJW/etc. should be upset at marvel about

>>93309566
I mean, she's all those things. She's over worked and well intentioned, puts up a facade of being a tough bitch, and winds up coming off as a facist when put in charge because she's not ready for that kind of responsibility, and so she's incompetent. Above all she's a soldier following orders and she wants her life to be simple.

>>93310062
the only reason for kamala being an inhuman is because marvel doesn't wanna give fox any new characters for movies

>> 138. Mighty Captain Marvel #5 (Marvel) - 17,164 [140] Just.

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>>93314472
JUST DO IT

>>93314472
> 35. Wonder Woman #22 (DC) - 44,114 [52]

I would like to see how much Captain Marvel #22 would sell, but we know that she can't go beyond 12 issues per run.

>>93314997
> 55. All New Wolverine #20 (Marvel) - 36,573. Mighty Thor #19 (Marvel) - 35,499 [47]. Also

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>>93315063
She's outselling Holy Menstruation at least.

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>>93313041
I'd buy that if I ever read a comic that portrayed all that as a cohesive character. But as it is I get to see one side or the other, and it's clearly because writers can't agree on who she is as a person. Her eventually being defined as a fascist mega bitch who thinks she's right isn't even a terrible character idea, but no one is delivering it well. Maybe the writer of the Ultimates does her well, but I honestly just skipped around to space gods eating eachother, because I didn't understand how Carol and her team could be important on that scale.

Honestly, a lot of the blame falls on Bendis, who can't write adults to save his life. The way he had Carol blow off valid criticism in Civil War 2 and when she almost killed the GotG despite the fact that SHE CALLED THEM AND WAS EXPECTING THEM... she just comes off as a crazy, childish person a lot of times. And just being a really powerful brat doesn't appeal to me as a character.

>>93315253
Has Marquez ever worked with ANYONE else besides Bendis? I've only ever seen his work in Civil War 2 and now "Defenders"

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Reminder

>>93315393
https://youtu.be/OL_TWd-sywk

>>93299110
>Is Carol the most pathetic, miserable, sad excuse of a character of all time?

Her 616 incarnation is arguably the most convoluted character history in cape comics, and I'm counting Hawkman, Power Girl, and Wolverine (not counting Supergirl because it's reset so frequently). Each incarnation of Carol Danvers could make a good, somewhat rounded character -- but when you stack all of them she's a fucking mess whose life has been defined by resets.

One of the places where Ultimate did it right and managed to leave her a baseline human.

>>93300222
>ITT: Everything that exists needs to give me a boner or it's worthless
ITT: I don't read comic books but here's my hot commentary
She's had potential but every single time some other writer got bored with her and stripped her of her identity through some traumatic event.

There wasn't much wrong with her before Claremont needed an excuse to make Rogue a psycho. Her current characterization is a burnout who can't relate personally to people much -- which is a fine set of traits for a side character, not a headliner. She's Tony Stark without the genius or the over-the-top showmanship.

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Cgi ?

>>93309669
>The change into "Marvel's premier heroine" should have been organic and not forced and immediate like it was.

Since Perlmutter decimated the editorial staff and management decided writers should come from fields unrelated to comic books, they signed their own fate.

WW's domestic boxoffice its first weekend has them shitting their pants and praying that MM will bring back the same audience to fill the same number of seats. And who knows, maybe it will. Neither will translate to meaningful book sales if the book's shit, though.

>>93311961
She had her memories restored but her emotional connection to them is shaky at best.

>>93295216
Who is this?
>reads file name
Seriously who the fuck is this?

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>>93316896
Karla moonstone.

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>>93316840
It's really sad, because the initial women's lib push that created Carol's Ms. Marvel persona was written by a man who knew you needed an experienced super hero comic writer to make a super hero. Current Marvel just thinks you need "a writer", and that's wrong. There are techniques, tropes and ways of doing things in super hero books that you only learn about by doing super hero books. You can't learn this shit from Bendis, because he fails at the medium in a lot of ways, but I'm sure they all ask him advice because his sales numbers tend to be up. Marvel just doesn't have enough of the old guard there to teach the new writers how to do the work, and that leads to bad books and probably bitter, angry writers who never want to do comics again.

>>93312460
They meant to make her attractive.
It worked.

>>93302504
She wasnt in the PS2 version

>>93317105
Psp exclusive.

>>93309463
that's sweet

>>93316999
Gene Yang's only been doing superhero comic books for a few years and he's knocking it out of the fucking park BECAUSE he's a student of form with reverence for what came before him.

Bendis was another undocumented immigrant who came in as an artist and then jockeyed to write without any mentoring.

>>93316896
> not a movie character, how should I be expected to know who this is?!?

>>93315384
He did that Fantastic Four Season One graphic novel

Some USM too

(Haven't touched a comic in years, I'm just curious)

>>93317347
I haven't

>>93317171
Agreed.

>>93317117
Shame she wasn't on PS2

Might have helped the replayability

No, not even making her Captain Marvel was or changing her look was.

The mistake was the entirety of Marvel Comics staff that could never shit up an interesting story with the character and forced their shitty political opinions instead.

>>93308743
Is funny because this thread is not they complaining.
Maybe we should just get rid of all media and be done with it.

>>93318049
This

>>93295018
This, Dyke Marvel is a fucking disgrace. I want Hydra cap to kill her and rape her skull.

>>93294995
no, her hair was though.

>>93311995
>muh /pol/ bogeyman
back to dumblr with you

>>93304856
My obscure ankle fetish might finally be worth it.