Zack Snyder

>>93263333
you can put in as much symbolism and foreshadowing into a movie as you want, if it's not a good movie when you take away those things then it isn't a good movie at all

>>93263356
That doesn't make sense anon. Imagine if every story had their symbolism and foreshadowing removed. It would be boring and probably not make any sense

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>>93263377
But that's wrong
The story and characters of something should be enough, and symbolism and foreshadowing are the spices that make it even better
But if you don't have the first two, then all you have is a little spice with no main dish and I'm only doing a food analogy because I'm hungry right now I swear

>>93263429
Just boiled chicken should be enough to feed you, but does it taste good? Also get some food.

>>93263356

Zack Snyder is all about visuals. That is his strength. I believe he is simply using visual storytelling medium in an unorthodox way that makes it difficult for many people to enjoy. Films are subjective just like art, and a lot just don't understand his style.

>>93263459
That's a neat way to look at it.

>>93263459
>unorthodox

I think he just doesn't quite comprehend the way the majority of people think. I think he may be some kind of actual clinical autist. It's a good explanation for how it never dawned on him that Clark and Lois kissing in a burnt-out warzone in MoS wouldn't go over well.

>>93263475
That never bothered me because in MoS Clark is just a guy. He's not a Superhero yet.

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>>93263517
No, see, you're missing the point too. Nothing about this scene is heroic. It's ominous and foreboding. It looks like No Man's Land in WW1. It looks like a tactical nuke has gone off. It looks like mass death. This is a very inappropriate place and time for a romantic moment. The action and the setting don't fit together.

>>93263333
It isn't that people don't understand symbolism. It is that he only makes shallow references and allusions to themes and tries to cram in as many as he can. None of which are carried through all the way through the arc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpiRzumrVY

>>93263333
>kino af
Kill yourself.

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Only in the realm of mainstream entertainment is work judged by its accessibility or how "fun" it is.

Imagine a critic saying 2001: A Space Odyssey or Solaris were trash because they were "too slow" and had "wooden" actors who "never smiled" and asked "When was it decided space movies shouldn't be any fun?"

Imagine a critic saying Steve McQueen's Hunger or Lynne Ramsay's We Need To Talk About Kevin were terrible movies because they were "humorless" and "had no likable characters" like that is a requirement.

Snyder merges high and "low" art , and because he works in a different genre, they are judged by an entirely different metric. Snyder is telling allegorical stories that critique the way we consume and process escapist entertainment in contemporary society. For that reason, films like Sucker Punch and Batman v Superman must make use of iconic imagery and archetypes.

This is not something that people ask Hollywood to do in action movies. This desire to expose tropes we've grown complacent to and attack our preconceived notions comes directly from Snyder's personal ambitions as an artist. Snyder believes that pop entertainment is taken for granted, but can be elevated through re-contextualization. But there is a decades-old template that directors are expected to follow when making films for the masses, and if you veer off to follow personal pursuits, you are seen as hack.

He is using pages torn from a children's coloring book as a canvas for a post-modern collage of pop icons and classical masterworks, but the critics mostly see him as a child who can't color inside the lines.

>>93263459
except BvS looked like total garbage half the time

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>>93263356
It makes a convenient point for sad fanboys to latch on his excellent visual style as a negative (how funny that in the medium of film, a man is crucified for knowing how to film) but besides that, his visual style has meaning. Even the more subtle lightning has meaning. And honestly the most impressive blockbuster ever made in terms of visual narrative carrying the film. It is a continuation of Kubrick's language, allowing the frame to speak for the film.

>>93263459
>Films are subjective just like art, and a lot just don't understand his style.
Art is subjective to a point, but not knowing the basics of the medium, or understanding how they work together means your end result will be shit.

Like how not understanding anatomy, or perspective in a graphic novel/ art piece will subtract from it in a very bad way, unless you can somehow luck out and nail a perfect style. Take a look at the fill in issues of Gwen pool for someone missing the basics and fucking up hard.

Saying things are completely subjective is probably one of the bigger cop outs to say in any art form.

>>93263541

What is juxtaposition?

>>93263333
if most people cant comprehend your symbolism, then your symbolism sucks

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>>93263594
You might want to stop watching those YIFY rips.

It is without a doubt the most visually striking CBM film ever made. Most importantly, Snyder embraces his visual expertise to carry the narrative. He is a geniune filmmaker fully embracing the ideals of film left behind by the medium greats.

>>93263607
So 2001 then sucks?

>>93263613
the entire last half hour looks like actual trash. And the rest of the movie, while it looks nice in still shots, is pretty much the same drab mess.

>>93263589
Stop, don't compare this shitpile to space odyssey to this trash. A movie doesn't have to be fun to be good, but this is not a good film. Calling cape flicks low art is also fucking shit, there's a few of them that are very good films and will transcend the medium and be remembered far after their time. This is not one of them, this is not some fucking swan song of high art and people "just don't get it MAN!" it's shit.

You're like comparing this movie to films like the shining and that's a fucking travesty.

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It's not only symbolism and visual language. How about the fact that Snyder's Superman is the only real human character in a genre exploded with snarky quipbot MCs?

It's certain irony that in a genre about ordinary people being granted extraordinary powers, the one superhero I can relate to is the one about the alien demigod. Maybe it's the fact that we see the isolation Clark endurs and the impact it has on his character. Or him having to bear witness to becoming an icon of worship to many while in heart being an ordinary boy from Kansas. Or maybe it's his actions having good intentions but at times disastrous results. Snyder's Superman is full of contrast and character, which makes it all the more fascinating and unique.

While most superhero films only barely touch on the full implications of being granted superpowers, Snyder approaches the subject with full sincerity and comes out strengthening the icon all the more. The Day of the Dead segment told us more about Superman and the world Superman inhabits (our world) than many entire trilogies manage to do. Critics can't cope with a film that treats its superheroes seriously. They've become very comfortable in comfortable superheroes, who do little wrong and whose actions rarely come with grave consequences. Time will yet again prove Snyder right as it has in the past.

>>93263626
No it doesn't. You're just hating without anything substantial to say. Your lack of knowledge on film cinematography ousts you.

>>93263613
>It is without a doubt the most visually striking CBM film ever made.
I didn't realize gritty and brownscale made something visually striking. The guy knows composition, and how to make shots, but making a visually appealing movie does not a film make.

>>93263541

I think thats the whole point though. Its a movie where the heroic guy we all know snaps a neck and killed a buncha lives due to collateral damage. its about heroism buried within the very difficult conflict, just like a kiss that is a human emotion of man inside of the most deadly of times.

People point fingers too quick at zack's grander vision of not having heroism be obtained easily. I think he wanted batman as a killer on purpose too. He needed the potential to kill superman, a being he didnt see as a man until "martha" triggered the most traumatic origin that drives him to the current day. People always joke about that scene but its not about matching names as it is about batman having a 2nd chance to save his mom. His actual mom will never be possible but the martha he has a chance to save now, he can prevent their death. Thats the moment the heroism within batman is barely awakened.

>>93263630
You didn't actually reply to the post. You think you were being attacked but you weren't. And the post precisely explains why it's not 2001 but a middle ground between low and high art.

>>93263621
Except 2001 had substance behind it, it had a story to tell and took a while to grasp every little bit. Where as BvS is WOW MAN SUPERMAN IS JESUS WOWE MAN REALLY MAKES U THINK. It's all fucking surface level.

>>93263660
everyone understands the intention, its just way more enjoyable for meme content

>>93263659
Again, relying on empty buzzwords to say nothing. You are very desperate to push your narrative on us. As proven by your eagerness to reply with buzzwords that change with each posts, coupled with just as fleeting non-arguments.

>>93263680
BvS also has substance.

What you're doing is reducing something with substance into surface level to fit your narrative by acting retarded on purpose. A narrative you are still desperate to push on us and which nobody is buying.

The "BvS is secretly good" meme needs to die already

>>93263664
It's not a fucking middleground you jackass, it's a guy who knows how to shoot film making a turd of a movie look good.

That's not high art, and CBM's aren't low art, it's just retards like you who think that comic book movies can't be high art.

There's no middle ground here at all you pretensions jackass. I bet you think Marville was new and innovative too.

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>>93263660
Well, fuck that, that's not what I want. If I want a challenging depiction of the difficulties of heroism I'm not going to go see a fucking comic book movie, I go to a Superman movie to see Truth, Justice, and the American Way. Snyder should go make a movie with original characters if this is the sort of story he wants to tell and keep his mitts off one of the most iconic characters of all time.

>>93263695
>BvS also has substance.
No it doesn't, when the whole movie can be taken apart by one word, your film is shit.

>MARTHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

pinnacle of the medium!

>>93263643
What the fuck are you talking about? What is the character arc that Superman goes through?

Every one of those quip bots in Marvel have character arcs. Superman is just static as fuck.

>>93263728


When Batman hears Martha’s name he is snapped back to the moment of his parents’ death and realises that he wasn’t the hero who was going to save the world from a dangerous alien, he was the man who was about to take a boy away from his mother. He was about to become the very thing he had fought against all his life and what had caused him to become Batman in the first place. Even though he was ready to kill Superman before, he had never thought of himself in terms of his parents’ killer and instead saw Superman as the killer. He lost his parents to a shooter “for no reason at all”, he lost Robin to the Joker (chaos) and he lost his last family, his employees to the Kryptonians’ war (that emerged out of nowhere).

But now he realised that he had things the other way around and that Superman was the victim and the man with a family, a mother and people that he loved and whom he was trying to save and was helpless to save at that moment. He saw things for what they really were: Superman was the boy about to lose his mother to a madman and that boy was helpless to save her. That is why when he realises all of this he throws the spear away in anger at what he had let himself become.

When Batman is faced with this reality he doesn't just come back from the edge and become good again, he manages to FINALLY come to terms with the loss he suffered for 30 years. By getting a chance to save Martha, he can finally do something that allows him to cope with his loss, which 20 years of fighting criminals and stopping evil couldn't do. It also reinstills faith in him that what he did for 20 years WASN’T a waste and that "what falls" ISN'T "fallen" permanently and that his life as Batman WASN'T just "a beautiful lie". This is proven at the end of the movie when he says, “Men are still good, we fight, we kill, we betray one another, but we can rebuild, we can do better, we will, we have to.”

Why do Snyderfags often reply in walls of pretentious text?

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>>93263723
>I go to a Superman movie to see Truth,
As seen by Snyder's Superman

>Justice
As portrayed by Snyder's Superman

>The American Way
As portrayed by Snyder's Superman.

The in-film critics are doubting Superman precisely because he is all that but modern cynicism has made us unable to realize the presence of such people. Superman proves his doubters wrong at the end of BvS.

This is the idealistic Superman flung into, not an idealistic world, but into our world. Which what makes him truly meaningful.

>>93263745
Why do you always rely on cheap one-word buzzword posts and then flee when being called out on your immense ignorance? You hawk these threads as if your life depended on it desperately trying to steer narrative in one direction and then you get very mad when that narrative is falling apart with well-constructed posts.

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>>93263716
CBM as perceived by mass audiences and critics are definitely low art. Which is precisely why BvS ended up puzzling so many. It had the audacity of being something meaningful.

>>93263603

Zack isnt missing the basics of the medium. He is more like an artist that understood anatomy so well, hes drawing the textures and tissues of organs on the outside, and exaggerating the physique in absolute beauty but because people thought they were going to see a typical standard life drawing, they complain about how awkward it is instead of appreciating what it actually uniquely mastered.

http://pulpklatura.tumblr.com/post/141843209469/batman-v-superman-the-modern-revenge-tragedy

>>93263681
>everyone understands the intention
I sincerely doubt that.

>>93263603
That's not really true. There are plenty of artist who are shit that are still loved and thought as genius.

>>93263768
>>93263780
>>93263792

Somoene actually posts like this unironically on fucking 4chan.

>>93263833
Yeah let's all pretend to be retards screaming at the top of our lungs instead xD

>>93263759
this. just because he isnt like "and dont forget to eat your vegetables" doesnt mean he isnt a hero. he saved more people than donner's superman ever did.
it's really a great study on his struggle with being a god among men. everyone expects so much and all he wants to do is live up to everyone's expectations but there are just as many people trying to bring him down.

>>93263713

Its not a meme. It requires an imagination to interact with and unlock the films true potential. Many will never acquire it because generally people are lazy and unimaginative. Thats the sad truth but its okay.

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Snyder is loved by most film makers. He is a visionary and very misunderstood.

while on the topic of movies that are hated, byt secretly good only to a few select people who are intelligent

lets talk about the original "catwoman" which is probably the most misunderstood yet visionary film ever

>>93263735
A bunch of words that don't mean shit. It is a absurd line from a bad movie.

>>93263960
Again, lazy one sentence posts to dismiss entire arguments and then reduce the thread into non-arguments. It's like every thread repeats itself with the same haters lingering in every thread desperately trying to undermine any actual well-constructed arguments.

>>93263973

see this

>>93263561

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Zack Snyder's dc films are the equivalent to zelda wind waker. At first glance, many hated it because it wasnt the ocarina update they wanted but in time, people saw that wind waker was actually possibly the best zelda of all time.

>>93264002
>comparing the bright, wonderful, cheery, whimsical, almost ghibli-esque Wind Waker to snyderman
you sicken me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAh9oLs67Cw
Daily reminder that literally anything is a brilliant work of art if you're willing to over-analyze it hard enough.

>>93264029
/thread
lets go home

>>93264029
Convenient way to dismiss arguments and people with a quick escape button.

>>93264019

Its about something unique and unexpected that wasnt as appreciated at first but later ended up as one of the best.

People eventually saw wind wakers beauty but im not sure if BvS will get that opportunity, sadly.

>>93263606
Not appropriate for this situation. Look at the true real images of such events, such as the London blitz. Pictures of the royals or Churchill casually strolling around the ruins of the east end chatting with happy Londoners in The rubble of their homes. They are cheerful and relaxed in defiance of the situation. Bleak and gallows humour is acceptable because it shows that individuals can continue to retain their core human characteristics despite the situation.

But the MOS romance scene was the opposite of that. Going back to the blitz, there was a lot of disgust with two free french officers who visited the east end and ignored the destruction and suffering. That's what MOS was like. Kissing while ignoring the suffering, rather than acknowledging and in defiance of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxP5taXGwQ0

Honestly even ignoring the symbolism and visual meaning, Snyder's films are still very entertaining to watch because he's skilled at actually directing.

>>93264019
This. At least use Twilight Princess.

>>93264058
the argument falls apart when both people and critics gave wind waker incredible high praise the very minute they got their hands on it, and while there were always complaints about it "being too kiddy" nearly everyone still rated it incredibly high

wind waker would be more like iron man 1, which had everyone rolling their eyes at such a B-list heroes prospects of being popular, and people high from the batman expressing all possible doubts, only for the movie to get near-universal acclaim

>>93264060

So now you want realism? Should superman stop flying to please your taste? Film is the perfect canvas the capture that juxtaposition.

Why do people act like something as basic as symbolism means your movie is good? Shit directors frontload their movies with symbolism all the time, it's literally the first thing you learn in middle school english. That doesn't mean the movie is any good.

>>93264092
did you know tommy wiseaus "the room" is chock-full of symbolism?

>>93263333
If you need artists to explain what you meant with text walls years after the fact then you should be making small art house pretentious bullshit rather than blockbusters. There s a reason that the MCU and Wonder Woman over performed relative to Snyder films. It's because people go to watch them, have no trouble understanding them and enjoy them. Snyders underperformed (relative to their IP, superman and batman should be crushing the opposition) because people watched them, thought they were shit and told their friends as much.
>Is it really his fault that most people can't comprehend symbolism
If snyder wanted to make a movie that lived up to its potential, he should have made it accessible to most people. Symbolism means shit if most people are so disinterested in the movie that only the most dedicated austists care enough about the movie to look for the symbolism.

Howcome BvS gets so much shit for being a beautiful movie while 95% of the mcu is filmed like direct-to-tv movies, with no villains (besides winter soldier), filled with low quality cosplay costumes, absolutely zero memorable soundtracks, and center around c-list leftover heroes?

>>93264136
We all know who the haters in these threads are. The IP count stays the same, they stay shitposting until the thread is buried. It's their modus operandi.

>>93264136
as much as you people hate "normies" please note that they are the majority, and everyone here who defends BvS is in the minority

while you can sit on your hipster throne and defend it, i dont give a damn about your taste, claiming that everyone else is dumb for not enjoying what you enjoy is the height of pretension

>>93264136
Because they actually believe the muh color meme they made up.

>>93264131
>zack snyder should've catered to low iq people of walmart

>>93264131
You don't need to understand every subtle detail to understand BvS. It's not a difficult film. If you think so, then you might have some kind of mental retardation that you might want to check out. BvS is fascinating because it's filled with smaller details that Marvels completely ignore because they consider their primary audience kids who are easily entertained with a recycled quip or two and that's it. Snyder's films adhere more to the classic rules of filmmaking where you were expected to make more with your film than just standard template shit. He is a creator, not just a businessman wanting to maximize profits. A film's quality has never been about profit. Few people will argue Avatar is the greatest film ever made. Or that even fucking Avengers was the best CBM ever made when it's shock-full with awful acting, CGI and dialogue.

I hope hell exists and the worst and most painful circle of hell is for faggots who use "le kino" meme.
Rapists, cannibals, mass murderers, serial killers, death cult leaders, they all deserve better than kinoposter scum.

>>93264173
dont dis avengers, avengers is still my favorite

>>93264181
I think you're mad nobody will use such a term for lazy MCU garbage.

Maybe "soap-opera" would be fitting for MCU as it has production values of day-time soap-operas.

>>93263984
a bad video with entirely subjective viewpoints made on the grounds to be click bait?

>>93264186
>le company wars XDDDD
I stand by my statement.
Fuck off back to /tv/, human waste.

>>93263333
and instead of having Superman talk to the people, telling them that he's not a god, that really he's just like them. Snyder has him silently look around like a mopey dick.

The dipshit Guy Ritchie King Arthur movie used its visual storytelling better then BvS, and didn't substitute its meaning with references to better movies and works of art.

Where the Le Kino defence force for Legend of the Sword?

>>93264219
He prefers to listen rather than speak.

>>93264229
then he's a shit Superman.

>>93264245
How so? He is not a ruler. He is their helper. He is not there to defend himself, he is there to help them. It is perfectly rational that Superman would prefer remain silent than be dragged into debates and politics.

>>93264229

>He prefers to listen rather than speak.

Good for him.

That's not a defence for poor characterisation. Like 90% of the defence for this movie is "Well that's the point!" as though that somehow matters. I don't care about the fucking intent, I care about the execution and how it works within the context of the movie.

And that argument is bullshit, he doesn't talk because the movie would be over if he sat down and actually talked to people in this movie. The machinations of the plot only work if Superman is an antisocial loner feels magnet, so that's how he's written.

>>93264092
SvB is like one of those boring poems that English teachers overanalyse and point out all the detailed and fantastic posts. At the end of the day, it's still boring shit.

Anyway, zach snyders pretentious need to be clever has probably ended up reducing superman to a side character in the DCEU. No one wants to touch that project. They'll wheel him out for the justice league movies where he'll glare and float sadly at the back.

>>93264223
it was a pretty good watch, but not as good as his other films on his recent track record.

Like, what do you expect me to say, there's a reason people flock to certain products over others, BvS to King Arthur and all.

>>93264085
Juxtaposition isn't often a good idea.

>>93264281

>They'll wheel him out for the justice league movies where he'll glare and float sadly at the back.

Or he won't and thus the Cult of Snyder will hate him and blame Whedon for making a character that people other then them want to watch.

>>93264281
>shitting on poetry
Yeah, figures something as low key as BvS would be to complex for you

This thread lends credibility to my theory that most of the /pol/ shitposting people complain about on /co/ is really just retards from /tv/ coming over here because superhero movies are popular right now.

>>93263613
>posts a bunch of screenshots of proof the film looks good
>doesn't include any shots of Doomsday

>>93264281
Cavil is involved in nearly all of the reshoot they are doing for JL, so maybe they are trying to change that.

>>93263589
is this some retarded copypasta?

Synder comes off like some edgy teenager who thinks he's too old and cool for comics.

>>93264305
Not my point. I'm saying that if you have to explain all the symbolism to people, then don't be surprised when they get a choice they prefer something easier to digest. There is a reason more people enjoy COD to dark souls.

>>93264333
snyder planned this whole thing to make himself a legend, the bad movies, the daughter "suicide", it's all a ruse to make "snyder" (he has achieved ultra meme status. nearing sagan levels) a "real" edgy character IRL and force his legacy. its all fake. fake media

>>93263459

Visual storytelling is only one component of a movie/cartoon/whatever.

Tellingly, the moment Genndy forsook that, Samurai Jack turned to shit

>>93263589

Except that those actually had a point in being dark.

These are adaptations about DC characters. If you're not going to offer an actual insight or deconstruction, then you shouldn't fucking disrespect the source material

>>93263643

Anon, there are tons of movies - hell, even superhero movies - without Whedon style snark.

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Also confirmed.

>>93264254
Because he's not making some grand political statement to the entire world. He's talking to actual people and just telling them that "hey guys, please don't worship me, I'm really just a regular person like all of you".

He's not "defending" himself. He's just talking to people. Which is something that isn't a burden for a real Superman because he enjoys doing it.

>>93264319
Not to mention he fired Junkie XL and brought in Elfman. Probably to completely re-do all the music away from Snyder edgelordy trash into something actually hopeful and enjoyable.

>>93263517
But he can still hear all the people trapped in the rubble and dying around him and it doesn't stop him from being aroused.
That's sick.

Snyder read The Dark Knight Returns and he thought Batman killed people in it. Man's a fucking idiot.

>>93264772
Show me one CBM with better score than BvS. Preferrably from the MCU you defend like a dog.

>>93264804
I don't think he actually read it. Nobody has reading comprehension that bad.

>>93263597

There is nothing subtle about that fucking frame you fucking try hard. Yes, it looks aesthetically pleasing as fuck but if the story doesn't match the visuals then it means nothing

DCEUfag: I like this movie and here's why
anti-DCEUfag: WHY ARE YOU SO PRETENTIOUS
jesus christ

>>93264884

>Show me one CBM with better score than BvS

Most of them?

It's a mix of bad Zimmer and Junkie XL doing Fury Road retreads. It's horribly distracting, and even more disappointing after MoS excellent soundtrack.

>>93263859

He isn't a likable person and zack Snyder couldn't figure out if he wanted to make him reluctantly heroic or the hurting hero because he thought that shit would make the character cooler when in fact the character is not like that at all.

>>93264908
Nice dodge. It's ok one day maybe one person will give a shit about MCU scores.

>>93264300

Fucking this. Can't wait for whedon to deconstruct Snyderman and make all the Snyder fans angry because they can't picture themselves in the forced internal suffering faggot hero trope that Snyder calls Superman anymore

>>93264999
Why are you this mad? I honestly pity someone this upset over films.

>>93264892

But it's not like that all. It's when snyderfags try to pass off snyder's static character arc for Superman and his one dimensional interpretation of doomsday that manages to make the comic version look more appealing as high art that's too deep is when people tell them to shut the fuck up.

Is saying that BvS is a super deep reference/analogy to Excalibur still the go-to defense of the film?

>>93265033

Ah yes. The old 'I'll say I pity you just to discredit you and make myself look more intelligent' argument ender. Just pulling out all the stops in this thread.

>>93264892
Welcome to BvS threads on /co/

Enjoy your stay.

Oh and also you might get banned if you defend the film too much against the marvel hordes.

>>93265051

>BvS is a super deep reference/analogy to Excalibur

I'm still mad. Excalibur is a legit masterpiece and and an actualyl successful version of telling your story through imagery and atmosphere rather then plot or dialogue.

Fucking steams my clams that Snyder can't just ruin his own movies, he has to attach himself to actual great films.

>>93265091

That's not it. Marvel is going downhill as well. They only know how to make characters more available but they've been starting to slip due to their success and reluctance to stray from formula a little bit. Their first failure will most likely be spider-man homecoming

>>93265104
Yes I'm sure you were a huge fan of Excalibur before it gave you a reason to shitpost BvS. The biggest fan.

And I guess also the biggest DC fan too!

>>93263589
But BvS was fun as fuck, I hadn't laughed like that in years.

>>93265124

>Yes I'm sure you were a huge fan of Excalibur before it gave you a reason to shitpost BvS

What?

I was a a big Arthurian story faggot when I was a kid, I watched whatever I could get my hands on. I even watched that awful First Knight movie more then once.

It's not like I was going in expecting the movie to reference Excalibur.

>>93263613
I remember when I thought countre jour made everything look artistic. I was 10.

>>93265163
I remember making a completely unrelated point to another post.

I was you.

>Point out the flaws in BvS
>"bu-bu-but Marvel! Whedon-speak! Quips!"

everytime.

>>93265178
>Point out the strengths of BvS
>"nu-uh those don't count because my headcanon says this and also here is my repeating my opinion for another 200 replies forgetting the IP count is the same"

>>93265176
?
Literally half of those screencaps >>93263613 use contre jour, the teenager hack's shortcut to artistry.

I enjoy this thread.

>>93265048
Snyderfag: I like Snyderman and here's why
(You): shut the fuck up
it's the exact same thing

>>93263650
Muh Kino

>>93263459
>I believe he is simply using visual storytelling medium in an unorthodox way that makes it difficult for many people to enjoy.
Nigger you need to watch a Malick, Von Trier, Winding Refyn movie if you think that way. Even someone as basic as Nolan or Villeneuve has way better visual storytelling sensibilities.
>Films are subjective just like art
There's nothing subjective about the craft, If I say A Michael Bay's film has more artistic merit than a Michelangelo painting, my statement would be valid because of "art is subjective" notion? Only thing that's truly subjective is your subjectivity. Fucking retard.

>>93263377
BvS is already boring. And so was MoS neverending fighting.
As for making sense, Lois following the army everywhere in Mos doesn't make sense, Batman wanting to kill Superman even before their first meeting doesn't make sense.

>>93264823
>Show me one CBM with better score than BvS
Literally anything. All the Junkie stuff is complete trash. Including literally the worst Batman theme of all time.

>>93264892
non-DCEUfag: I don't like this movie and here's why
DCEUfag: WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID LET ME TELL YOU WHY YOU'RE WRONG
jesus christ

>>93265362
Can you imagine having reading comprehension this bad?

Luthor even says to Superman that he sent Batman all those provocations like "You let your family die" to make him pissed at Superman.

I get being bored by a movie so you stop paying attention, but don't assert your opinion like you know better when you weren't even watching.

>>93265373
Still dodging

>>93265193
>the strengths of BvS
Oxymoron

>>93263792
Saying Snyder is all about the visuals means he can shot pretty picture with a nice composition. A movie isn't a photography and he simply can't do basic narration.
Just look at the first hour introduction of BvS. Scenes follow one another chronologically but feel disjointed rather than linked.
The only part where scenes are linked smoothly is during the trial.

>>93265423
But I never claimed any of the MCU soundtracks were good either. Both can be bad.

>>93265405
DCEUfags can get pretty pissy too, yeah
but idk from the outside anti-DCEUfags look like the bigger raging autists with all the "not muh" and calling people retarded for liking a movie

>>93265453
>false flagging this hard

>>93265432
Point proven.

Now I wonder, did this film hurt you somehow that the prospect of people enjoying it actually offends you?

>>93264085
It's not about realism but perception. Do you want Superman to appear as an asshole who cares more about kissing his girlfriend than the destruction around him?

>>93265467
You can't act this smug about taking the bait, anon.

>>93263356
What are you talking about? It's not even good WITH those things.

>>93263650
>cinematography
Except cinematography isn't just about making pretty pictures. There's photography for that.

>>93263589
>Imagine a critic saying Steve McQueen's Hunger or Lynne Ramsay's We Need To Talk About Kevin were terrible movies because they were "humorless" and "had no likable characters" like that is a requirement.
And you don't ask yourself why the critic didn't say that about those movies but said it about BvS. Do you just think critics are inept when it comes to superhero movies?

>>93265405
This is literally me.

>>93265524
>Do you just think critics are inept when it comes to superhero movies
Yes.

BvS sucked, but that doesn't necessitate that Civil War was perfect.
DC movies have sucked recently, but that doesn't mean Marvel movies are perfect.
Zack Snyder is a bad overall director (excelling only in visuals) but that doesn't mean all of Marvel's directors are good.
WW was apparently pretty good, but that doesn't mean DC movies are now good and that Marvel movies are now bad.

Anyone who argues against the points I'm making (specifics up for debate as expected) is either trolling or way too stupid to be using the internet.

Saying BvS didn't have any nice moments is wrong.
Saying it wasn't stupid , is also wrong.

But here's the bottom line, regardless if you want to accept it or not. The main superhero core, the one true kernel of their existence is escapism. Whether you like it or not, that's their most important part.
They're people you want to be or people you want to hang out with.
Superman above all else.
And Snyder's superman isn't that at all. He's a whiny bitch, no one wants to be a whiny bitch, no one wants to hang out with a whiny bitch.
He failed at being a superhero.

>>93265793
That's why One Punch Man deals with the idea of Superman much better than Superman comics have, at least recently.

Being the perfect fighter doesn't make you the perfect person. Sure, you can defeat any and all enemies with a punch or a breath, but life isn't just a series of monsters to fight.

>>93263333
Zack is fantastic, and I really enjoyed the birth themes on Mos, recently saw that shitty video tesis about it and was pretty impressed that I missed the scream when Kal is born and when superman is born. Fantastic.


Also Lex angry and delusional prometheus speech is one of my favorite Lex moments ever.

>>93263630
BvS and MoS are not Cape flicks. That's the point. Both are honest and uncompromised movies with superheroes are protagonists, not McDonald's capeshit.

>>93265793
Bullshit.

Escapism is a core in all forms of entertainment, saying capeshit is about escapism is wrong.

>>93263333
BvS was a masterpiece.

File: 1479949266885.jpg (38KB, 620x474px) Image search: [Google]

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>>93264892
More like
>/tv/babygurls: I like BvS, it's a piece of art
>people with a brain; Oh no, it's just something that is too preten-
>/tv/babygulrs: Fuck off, muh Snyder is a god, company wars reee etc.

And that's why Snyderfaggots are now discredited by both DC's comics and live action followers

>>93265793
Thats..... actually a pretty darn well thought out and worded opinion. I'm astonished to see it on the interwebs

Well done anon

>>93266550
Gee, i wonder what you consider to be "compromised" McDonald's capeshit

>>93266466
>Also Lex angry and delusional prometheus speech is one of my favorite Lex moments ever.

Holy shit, read more comics. That was nothing, the kind of thing that you would see in fucking Naruto.

>>93265793
>"""fun""" is the only form of escapism

>>93266977
Of course there is also emotional, psychological and any other ways of usual escapism.

But thanks to WW, it's obvious to see that there's a difference between escapism and lazy use of biblical references that are way too forced in a media that usually drives those issues away except for character development.

Of course, /tv/ faggots like you can't comprehend that because, as proven plenty of times, you never read comic books and only jerk off to little girls, am I right?

>>93263333

This level of simplistic boring symbolism is worth praise?

I see we're doing this again rather than letting it go and being thankful that Wonder Woman is actually decent but instead of recycling the meme arguments again I just want to point this out:

Right now a few threads higher in the catalog a bunch of people are yelling over a site that's photoshopping superheroes to be chubby schlubs. 400 posts, the majority of which boil down to "Superheroes reflect an idealized reality".

And that's the thing. Idealization. Fun doesn't matter, levity and quips don't matter, smiling doesn't matter, and not even escapism matters, not really. The problem is that no matter what else Snyder did he forgot to make Superman and/or the world he lived in idealized. Nobody wants to be this guy; his life is almost entirely suffering.

In fact, Snyder's Superman probably SHOULD be the chubby schlub; at least then that'd sell the "symbolism" that he's just a man instead of a cut Adonis.

If people want a realistic and grounded story they can just go outside and live their lives.

>>93266833
It's not even the best Lex Prometheus speech.

>>93263643

Zach you're supposed to be with your family. Get the fuck odd of/co/.

>>93263759

How is a farmer telling his son to let a bus of children die our world?

File: They died for our sins.jpg (213KB, 1024x598px) Image search: [Google]

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>>93267214
Well, you see, our world is the cake, the cake we were merrily eating, and the idealistic world is the horses, the horses stuck in the farmhouse drowning, so, like, you want the horses to live but, like, yeah, cake

>>93264060
The kiss was a spontaneous act after they both just survived from the Phantom Zone portal collapsing in itself.

>>93265793
The only whiny bitch here is you.

>>93267863
You can razionale anything anon, it doesn't matter, it doesn't change the fact that the director/writer thought it was better to shoehorn the romance instead of having Supes reflect on the destruction and possibly save who was left

>>93267988
>shoehorn Lois Lane romance in a Superman movie

Stop being retarded.

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>>93268014
>Characters barely interact
>"Well i guess we're fucking now"

>>93265793
Not that anon, but taking this point further, it's also why Watchmen worked as well as it did. It took a genre based in escapism and steeped in idealism, then forced everything through a more cynical (an arguably realistic) filter. That's why it's made clear long before The Incredibles that capes are a hazard, or that being a vigilante is dangerous work, that the kind of people who'd want to do that sort of thing are way more flawed than even Marvel Comics was comfortable admitting, that a superpowered being would actually come across as alien and terrifying, or that in the end, superheroes don't really seem to have any real consequence on the bigger problems in the world.

>>93264888
but the story DOES match the visuals

>>93267988
>razionale

learn to spell, you idiot

>>93269491
Sorry, my Italian slipped through

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>>93263475
>>93263541
>>93264060
>>93265474
I really cant believe THIS is the hill you want to die on. People find comfort in each other ALL the time in tragic settings like that. On top of that, they are taking a brief moment to celebrate the fact they just SAVED THE WORLD. Are you autistic?

Next you are going to tell me this scene from Spider-Man 2 is terrible because they are having a heart to heart conversation when Peter SHOULD be focusing on destroying to reactor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n--PNjx7NTs


And then you are going to tell me this kiss scene is totally inappropriate because Superman has super sense and KNEW a missile was threatening the world but still took the time to talk to miss pucker before saving the world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhSwNDMgNzI
Next you are going to say pic related is out of character because it has Superman kissing Lois in the middle of a giant battle in Death of Superman.


Get out of here, you are arguing about nothing.

>>93263833
>>93263716
>>93263630
>DCEU hater swears and insults people why the defenders have real arguments and points

>>93264333
>hurr durr edgy teenager!!

you really have a compelling argument with a lot of proof and evidence!

>>93264462
But there is tons of insight. And MoS was the deconstruction, BvS was a reconstruction.

>>93267291
>he couldnt understand the most basic metaphor in the entire movie

>>93263459
This is the single most apologist post I've ever seen on /co/.

>>93269729
Nah, your idiocy and lack of intelligence slipped through.

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>>93268174
>it's also why Watchmen worked as well as it did. It took a genre based in escapism and steeped in idealism, then forced everything through a more cynical (an arguably realistic) filter.
Yeah, that worked brilliantly outside of LCS's.

>>93269936
>doesnt have an argument
>hurr durr apologist!!!

>>93269944
Rude

>>93263459
Good point anon.

>>93263561
Nah they aren't shallow at all and he really doesn't put that many in there. The different strains of theme in the movie all relate to each other and interplay very well. Also they are carried throughout each character's arc in the movie. I'm sorry if you had trouble seeing that.

>>93267042
>>93265793
>hurr durr the cape genre is only one thing
>hurr durr there are so many lazy uses of biblical references that are way too forced

how are they lazy if only 3 of them are super apparent at all and the rest are fucking hidden like numbers on police cars? How are they forced when Superman was compared to biblical characters since literal conception where he was compared to moses and the golem of prague? How is it forced when Grant Morrison literally talks about superheroes as the next step after religious figures? Are you dumb?

>>93263459
>Gib Snyder a quarter of a billion dollars
>Makes some great trailers for a film that people have a difficult time enjoying in the theater

See, the whole point of a $250 million dollar blockbuster is to make it as enjoyable for as wide an audience as possible.
Making something up it's own ass that audiences and critics wince at is akin to a hungry person going to a pizza parlor and being sold a plastic frisbee. Maybe motion pictures aren't for Snyder. Maybe he should just make interpretive religious videos.

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>>93270103
>I get to do decide the metrics of success and the point of a movie

Get over yourself anon. Both MoS and BvS are great movies. They both have over 60% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes which means, by that metric, the majority of the people who saw those movies liked them. They also both made tons of money.

Do you have any actual numbers to back up your claims?

>>93270229
You mean that literally every single person that watched them logged onto RT to vote

>>93270270
>Do you have any actual numbers to back up your claims?

>>93270270
>my baseless claims are more valid than your actual numbers

KEK

>>93270287
>>93270298
I'm not that anon

Baseless claims can't be fought with other baseless claims. Prove that the RT audience score reflects the opinion of the entire audience

>>93270229
>60%

It means that almost half of the people who went to whatch it thought that it was shit.

From the other half, part of them find it "ok" to "good". It is a horrible score, and implies that the movie is barely passable.

Also, the movie was pretty dumb and full of plot holes.

>>93270331
its a sample size, and thats note baseless, that IS a base also see the pic here
>>93270229

Now you and that other anon have 0 numbers at all. Way to talk out your ass like a complete retard.

>>93270331
>my 0 sample size is better than your actual sample size!

KEK

>>93270392
not at all, it means the opposite. It means at least 60% thought it was good, while less than 40% though it was "okay" to "bad"


Also MoS has a 75% audience score and BvS has 63%

>>93270392
> full of plot holes.

Nah

>>93270392
>full of plot holes.
>he cant understand the most basic plots ive ever seen in a movie

KEK

>>93270495
>>93270483
Yeah, but it's not a controlled sample, you don't even know the actual numbers of viewers, or the validity of the system since any person could vote multiple times or without even seeing the movie at all. And that goes both ways of course, for all we know in a controlled environment the number could be even higher

It's online user scores, they mean nothing, especially in a conflicted environment like console wars. See for example how the recent Zelda had thousands of negative scores on metacritic, just because, and the site eventually had to filter them out

But why am i even explaining this, you'll just say I'm mad the world secretly loves these movies

>>93263377

Symbolism doesn't make a story good. Good storytelling makes a story good. Without good storytelling, symbolism is meaningless.

>>93270608
No one is saying is perfect evidence you idiot, but both of those are at least some kind of sample. All you have to say most people hate the movie is your own experiences "they just do!!!"

Again,

>Do you have any actual numbers to back up your claims?

>>93270650
Good thing it was a well told story then.

>>93270688
If it was well told, people would have liked it.

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>>93270650
Sometimes, anon, sometimes in a visual medium you tell stories via visuals. See pic related. Is this symbolism to you are visual storytelling?

>>93270676
I have nothing but personal experience, friends' opinions and a number of written articles or YouTube videos, ignoring the critics' scores on various sites of course. Happy?

>>93270710
see
>>93270229
Most of the people who saw it did like it.

>>93270525
This is not how RT works buddy. Anyway, you are just defending your right to he considered mediocre.

>>93270650
>>93270722
*Is this symbolism to you or visual storytelling?

>>93270736
Half of the people didn't.

This is like getting a 6/10 in a test and proclaim that you are anything besides barely passable mediocrity. It's what it deserves actualy, and just because of the visuals.

>>93270737
actually it is, because the audience rating is a binary "I liked it" or "I didn't like it." If you think a movie is just okay, you dont like it. If you think it is good, you like it.


I've never told someone I liked a movie I thought was just okay.

I'm sorry you dont understand basic elements of humanity like this.

>>93270772
What? How is less than 40% half of the people? You said people didnt like it, I said at least 60% of the people who saw it did. So your original claim is mostly wrong.


also

>equating percentage of people who liked something to a measure of ability via test


jesus christ you are one idiotic human being.

>>93270103

Yes, how dare he try to make something that doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator and goes out of its way not to offend, challenge or engage anyone beyond the most basic level. It's like he's holding onto a bit of artistic integrity, that fucking dork!