Can Superman even recover? >MoS divisive >BvS sucked >People

He was good in Lego Batman

>>93060152
I'm a big Supes fan but at this point I honestly would prefer the character stay dead in the movie universe. He really adds nothing.

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We can bring one of the best Superman writers of all time back in to reboot the character and bring him back to his core vales- oh wait that already happened and DC ignored it.

I guess he's fucked.

-Remove Snyder
-Remove Cavill because he's a stoic piece of wood
-Give Superman a personality and make him actually have a drive to save people like Wonder Woman does. That's what I like about WW. She genuinely wants to be a superhero.

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>>93060152
Whedon will either bring him back from the dead free from his autism.
Or
Reveal that Jonathan Kent was kidnapped and replaced by Darkseid immediately after the Bus incident.

>>93060211
So either an asspull or a stupid asspull
So he can't recover?
Shame

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>>93060211
>preaches despair and indifference
>confuses Clark with contradictory expectations
>stands in a full-force tornado unaffected, then simply fades away
>reappears in mountain-top "visions" to further bedevil Clark with nihilism

It all fits.

>>93060270
I wonder if people actually believe that's what Pa was saying.

Jesus fucking Christ Zack Snyder has really done inrecovable damage to the character. Fuck that guy so much.

>>93060152
The CW Superman is the best on-screen one there's been in years. Just swap him into the movies and never look back

>>93060311
At the end of the day, Pa Kent was someone who didn't like people, he didn't trust them, suspected the worst of them, he believed they needed someone to show them all the way.

The most revolutionary moment in human history occurs, and he buries it all under his barn, exposes all his neighbor's toddlers to a sickly alien life-form, then fills the kid's head with a bunch of confusing rhetoric. Because he thinks he's the most capable person on the planet to deal with a sickly emissary from another planet's civilization, and that he can keep everyone around him safe as the kid develops awesomely dangerous abilities.

I'm not saying he's Evil necessarily, but he's certainly not sane.

>>93060327
You mean the one who fought Supergirl at full power and still lost, and spends the rest of the episode talking about how much more awesome she is than him? Nah fuck that cuck.

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>>93060152
I know one thing, I don't think I can watch a movie where Cavill and Gadot spend time exchanging this "Models Guide to Acting" puzzled expression they are both very fond of.

And Affleck has built a career on being the least interesting performance in any film.

>>93060152
>How can one of the top ten best selling comic characters in America win over an audience?

What did OP mean by this?

>>93060152
Letting shitposters forum slide over from /tv/ was a mistake.

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It sucks being a Superman fan. We haven't had a good movie with him for almost 40 years. Superman Returns sucked, MoS sucked, BvS sucked, and now Batman and Wonder Woman are being loved while Superman might as well just stay benched given his popularity in the DCEU right now.

I fucking hate Zack Snyder so goddamn much.

>>93060152
Step 1: stop being a moviefag
Step 2: start reading the current running comics featuring Superman
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

>>93060152
>Before a good movie

Wonder Woman is trash no one likes her she has no potential she should just be forgotten she's so boring

>After a good movie

Wonder Woman is amazing she's inspiring she should lead the DCEU

Come on OP connect the dots.

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>>93060489
Also, while Gadot's somewhat vapid acting ability was really good for "Diana, backwoods girl from the Island" in her own movie, I'm really worried about her ability to portray a hero who's easily the oldest and most experienced on the team.

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>>93060152
Batman's victory was total and complete.

>>93060324
Man I'd kill myself like his daughter if he ruins the while DC Cinematic universe

Thank his senpai that he's out for the count

>>93060388
Oh wow you people are real, I thought it was all a meme.
Pa's situation makes perfect sense to me.
He doesn't suspect the worst in people, he's just being real. It's not a person finding out about Clark it's the world. It's proof of other life and not only that superpowerful life.
He didn't want his son to take on the weight of the world when he was a child. His rhetoric may've been confusing but he was clearly trying to instill the responsibility of what Clark meant to the world the day that he would be revealed.
He took up being the "guardian" of a sickly alien emissary because he fucking adopted him, it wasn't some fucking alien ambassador it was his son.
Yeah he fucked up a lot but he was just a dude trying to deal with an impossible situation of raising his superpowerful alien son and not letting the world destroy him because good or bad that kind of attention on a child would destroy him.
Pa was sane and a good man, just not perfect. And that's what people wanted in the end.

>>93060409
Because he's nice and supportive.

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>>93060152
>Keep Superman dead
>Keep him as the "inspiration" for forming the League, LoSH-style
>Introduce Billy as the optimistic kid who loved Superman
Best possible world?

>>93060262
>So either an asspull or a stupid asspull
>So he can't recover?
>Shame
We have no time to NOT use an asspull. Superman already spent two films and soon to be three. There is no more time to get him to become Earth's greatest hero in any organic way. The only way he can do it now is outright retcon his past.

It's the quality of the movie that matters. That's all.

If Superman is in a movie that people love, then he'll be loved. It's not that complicated. The general public isn't going to hold a grudge against a fictional character because that's stupid.

>>93060152
Sure just give him to a director that can do well with uplifting themes, and just do a movie of him inspiring everyone to over come a bad guy.

>>93060621
Why not just write him well? The pieces are already there just use them right.
Though really there's no hope given who's directing him.

>>93060568
>Yeah he fucked up a lot but he was just a dude trying to deal with an impossible situation of raising his superpowerful alien son and not letting the world destroy him because good or bad that kind of attention on a child would destroy him.
And how did the film benefit from giving Clark Kent a fucked up father? The whole point was Clark was suppose to learn how to be a good person from his parents, that was the one thing that Superman is suppose to love Earth for. Crypton gave him powers but Earth gave him morality.

By making Pa Kent screw up his education, Clark loses his reason to love Earth. And suddenly he is no longer a man but just an alien.

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>>93060152
After three and a half movies, I'm sure he'll finally be the Superman we expected in the first one.

>>93060659
>Why not just write him well? The pieces are already there just use them right.
Because you would need an entire film to undo the canon. and no one has time for that. Not when it would be the FOURTH film.

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>>93060209

>Remove Cavill because he's a stoic piece of wood

Only when he's being directed by Snyder

Find someone in Hollywood who actually wants to make a Superman movie instead of a fucking deconstruction.

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>>93060152
I think the moment in MOS, when Clark obeyed his father and let him die in the tornado was the exact moment he stopped being superman-- he was on the run in the beginning of the movie-- that should have been why-- he was sighted saving his father-- so he ran away to protect them and himself.

People don't like Superman, a character that has endured since the 1930's-- because he's not Superman. And in the DCEU-- Wonder Woman's character s portrayed the way Superman's should be.

People still want Superman to lead the Justice League-- it's just that Wonder Woman is more Superman than Superman in the DCEU.

>>93060324
This. Fuck Snyder.

Is there anyone in this thread who believes that they COULDN'T have written a better scripts for MoS and BvS than Goyer?
I'm even asking you rabid Snyderfaggots.

>>93060666

MoS and BvS is all about Superman loving the Earth and wanting to be a part of it.

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>>93060610
>Billy Joins Diana and Bruce as part of the new DCEU Trinity
I love supes but I'd be lying if I didn't kinda want this. I love Billy too much.

>>93060740
>MoS and BvS is all about Superman loving the Earth and wanting to be a part of it.
If he had a decent upbringing then her would ALREADY be a part of Earth. Now he doesn't even have Clark Kent any more even after he resurrects.

>>93060740
No, that's the interpretation of the movie in your fat deluded skull.
It is absolutely NOT about that at all.

>>93060388
I'm not trying to sound like a rabid Snyder-fan, so don't take this as a hostility.
I did enjoy both Man of Steel and BvS and I can appreciate Snyder's vision of Superman. I think he has lacking storytelling elements in his films however. I know I'm beating a dead horse by saying that, but I also don't think its this incoherent mess people like to think it is. I think Snyder wants the audience to really pay attention to his films and find subtle phrasing and lines to reveal motivation and ideals. Sometimes it works well, but other times his weakness in storytelling cripples it and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
In relation to Pa Kent, I can see where you are coming from, but in my own /opinion/ (not stating it as fact), I disagree. I think he sheltered Clark from humanity, not to protect humanity, but to protect Clark himself. He was just a kid and to reveal to the world that a kid, that is just growing up and going through struggles of his own, is this all powerful being would be a mighty burden to weigh on a minor. I think Pa Kent wanted Clark to mature enough to understand his position in the world before coming out. At the tornado scene, we see that Clark still refutes his position in society by saying he isn't Pa's actual son, so that could explain why Pa refused Clark's help. Also in that tornado scene, it taught Clark ultimate sacrifice to save beings that are below him (Pa, a human, saving the dog).
Like I said, I don't say this is fact, or the way Snyder intended it to be, this is my interpretation and you're free to disagree or refute it. I enjoy this version of Superman because to me, it is realistic and grounded. I know that Snyder and co. has said that Superman will go through an arc and will end up the charming Superman we all know, and I have enjoyed the "coming-to-age/grips-of-who-he-is" arc he has gone through.
At the end of the day, these are just movies about comic book characters.

>>93060724
>thor
>captain america
>wonder woman
who isn't a better superman than superman

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>>93060773
>tl;dr I creamed my pants at the First Flight scene, and it carried me through the garbage story-telling into my own fanfiction.

>>93060770

What's the movies about then?

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>>93060797
I'd call Hancock a dead tie.

>>93060797
you're right man, it's a fatal flaw that ruins the DCEU-- he's the most important piece of the puzzle-- and Synder jammed him into the wrong place backwards-- there are no extra supermen in the box-- so the picture is forever going to be incomplete.

>>93060807

You guys are hopeless.

>>93060807
Hey now, I know it's not my own fan fiction cause Clark didn't bang every member of the Justice League and Avengers.

>>93060797
How is Thor more Superman than Superman?

>>93060152
Do you know anything about comics?
Superman doesn't even sell there, and arguably its what he's the most famous for. That's why Batman's the tentpole, and why Superman only had one comic before Flashpoint.

Before the movie, people thought he was too lame/too good/too powerful. The movie didn't change anyones perceptions of him, least of all comic book fans (who've already seen the same stories before).

>>93060809
it's about Superman saying he loves the earth and wants to be a part of it, because the script says so-- he then proceeds to act in a way that is not loving of the earth, it's inhabitants, or in a way deserving of his parents.

>>93060666
All the reasons are there but with added angst.
The messages got through. Clark just had to spend years pondering everything because he was growing up.

The movies aren't good but there's no real reason to misrepresent them.

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>>93060773
>I enjoy this version of Superman because to me, it is realistic and grounded.
This is the first sign that you are creating a garbage Superman story.
The very IDEA of the Superman is fantastic, otherworldy and positive. You might as well try telling a "realistic and grounded" version of the Wizard of Oz or Dracula.

>>93060877
>Superman doesn't even sell there
Nigga he sells more than Captain America, Thor, Iron Man or Avengers.

>>93060877
Rebirth Superman has been selling well actually. He has two books now.

>The movie didn't change anyones perceptions of him

Because the movies have sucked, which I'm pretty sure was OP's point.

>>93060881
>he then proceeds to act in a way that is not loving of the earth, it's inhabitants, or in a way deserving of his parents.
Guy literally risked his life (repeatedly) to defend the earth and its inhabitants.

He rejected his father's "just keep your head down, don't do anything" because he was the only one who could do something.

>>93060927
>Nigga he sells more than Captain America, Thor, Iron Man or Avengers.
Now he does, because Marvel's run all those comics into the ground. But before Flashpoint? No, he was lucky if he was in the top 30.

>>93060683
But you really don't.
Just don't pull an Iron Man and revert him back to his old bullshit at the beginning of each movie.
Superman is now more confident he can be a truly positive influence on the world especially now that he has a guy who was entirely convinced that he could be nothing but a negative influence in his corner.
Wow it's so fucking easy.

>>93060773
Yeah but Superman shouldn't have to be taught to care for "lesser beings". This whole characterization of God Superman ignores that Superman, for all his impossible abilities, is a human. He went to high school, he watched tv, and he has love interests. The point of Superman, at least to this anon, is that he is what happens when a regular guy with superpowers decides to make a difference. I don't know. Maybe that's just how I interpret him, but Man of Steel felt so far removed from any of that that I could not enjoy it.

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>>93060510
I feel your pain friend. For now, the Man of Tomorrow is still just that...tomorrow. At least we still have All Star Superman.

>>93060960
>The point of Superman, at least to this anon, is that he is what happens when a regular guy with superpowers decides to make a difference.
That's the point of Spider-man.

Superman is what happens when there's an identifiable force for good in the world and it grew up in America.

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>>93060909
>Strange Visitor from another world
>Flies through the air, deflects bullets off his skin
>Lazor vision, can see through walls
BUT LETS KEEP IT GROUNDED AND REALISTIC FOLKS.
This isn't what audiences go to superhero movies for. Even the Nolan films are full of preposterous conventions and plot-elements.
Even Snyder and Goyer abandon their "grounded and realistic" story midway for fantastical DBZ fightan.

>>93060888
>All the reasons are there but with added angst.
>The messages got through. Clark just had to spend years pondering everything because he was growing up.
Your mistake is thinking it is a good idea to spend 3 films showing the pondering. Time's up. He could either get on with it immediately, or leave it to other more capable heroes.

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>>93060797
You Forgot the real Superman.

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>>93060610
fuck...that's really good

>>93060946
>Now he does, because Marvel's run all those comics into the ground. But before Flashpoint? No, he was lucky if he was in the top 30.
New 52 was rocky, too, even Grant Morrison writing him didn't take off.

>>93060982
Yeah I probably should have mentioned "grow up" in there. It's not an all of the sudden thing.

>>93060946
And Thor once went years without a book because he couldn't sell for shit. Two can play this game.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Bookscan-16-Top-750_sheet.htm

Superman is behind few nowadays, both in floppies or sales. If you are going to start with "do you even know comics?", at least don't give false information.

>>93060931
The dead of Metropolis disagree.

>>93060988
Actually the pondering ends when he becomes Superman straight up.

>>93060960
which is why MoS started on the wrong foot focusing on Krypton so much, because that's just a backstory there character isn't dependent on

>>93061006
"Superman Unchained" sold like water.

>>93061026
But the live people of Earth would agree

>>93060568
>>93060773
People, in BvS Superman is recalling a memory of his father to get through tough times on top of the mountain and the best he can come up with was "Son, one time I tried to be a hero and it all turned to shit. There's really no helping this world".
Like... Fuck.

>>93060931
>He rejected his father's "just keep your head down, don't do anything" because he was the only one who could do something.
Why even do this to begin with? What good is there to have Earth Robin Hood be rejected so he could agree with Space Robin Hood? Why does Pa Kent needed to make a mistake in raising a good son, when it just meant we have to waste time having Clark learning to be a good person as a 30 year old adult? How is it not a huge waste of time?

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>>93061029
The retarded element of Snyderman is that he's 33 when Lois finally pushes him to actually start helping for real.
33 fucking years old.

>>93060988
>Your mistake is thinking it is a good idea to spend 3 films showing the pondering.
He already made the decision.

Faora: "For every human you save, we'll kill a million more."

The Kryptonians had to go.

BvS was what happens when he stops just being unabashedly good. Because that doesn't work in our sociopolitical climate. America (the government) doesn't trust Superman and can't have him interfering in foreign affairs. But, alternatively, they can't do anything to him but ask him to explain himself, which side he's on, etc. So he doubted himself. Because despite him doing good, people were calling him a monster and blaming him for deaths he didn't commit.

>>93061058
Or the message was you can't expect a perfect win. Bad things will happen even when you do the right thing but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do the right thing.

>>93060931
Once again explaining the concept as if we don't understand it. The fact that the Kents would try to convince Clark to NOT be a hero is so asinine it might as well just be some original character pastiche of Superman.

It's like rebooting Spider-Man and not letting him have quips and webs and also Uncle Ben never died. That is a sad sad misstep in reintroducing a character, especially one that was so keen for a revival like Superman.

Second of all, even once he DOES choose to be Superman, he smiles, like once. That smile is as important and Batman's cape and ears. And yes I know the story didn't really allow for any joy. Guess what? That was a conscious decision. Nobody held a gun to their head and forced them to write a dreadful script and to cover everything with a shit smeared lens.

WE KNOW why he did what he did. It still sucks and is a poor way of introducing the character and they continue to show a fucking suicidal Superman in BvS.

>>93061092
Remember in the Donner films when Superman would crack a joke every once in a while after saving people from their certain doom? Maybe the world would lighten up a bit if he showed a little more levity. Or just not grimace so much.

>>93061087
Well coming out.
He was helping people for real for 15 years but as a bigfoot.

>>93061092
>BvS was what happens when he stops just being unabashedly good. Because that doesn't work in our sociopolitical climate. America (the government) doesn't trust Superman and can't have him interfering in foreign affairs.
What the hell are you on about? Superman does good and does not need governments to tell him otherwise. He isn't a government employee and technically not an American. Clark Kent is the American. There is no reason why Superman should stop being good just because Americans suck. That is not a justification.

>>93061105
Is that why what he tells Lois later is "Nothing stays good in this world"?

>>93061058

That's not the message at all. I'm starting to suspect you guys are all retard.

>>93061087

He was still helping people without the costume.

In the Richard Donner's movies Superman remained isolated inside the Fortress up to his thirties as well and in that he saved no one during his younger years.

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>>93061092
Superman stories shouldn't be about "Does Superman appeal to the Democrats and the Republicans in office?" it's about a messianic figure appealing to the People and representing the greater good and man's best nature.

Man of Carnage turned to shit because Goyer and Snyder thought they could make some sort of revealing sociopolitical statement, and neither of them are that talented. Which is why you can actually spot the moment where they just completely abandon that narrative and finish up with a dumb action picture.
With a really jarring and off-tone finale.

>>93061105
>Bad things will happen even when you do the right thing but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do the right thing.
Which directly contradicts Johnathan's stance in MoS

>>93061077
>Why even do this to begin with? What good is there to have Earth Robin Hood be rejected so he could agree with Space Robin Hood? Why does Pa Kent needed to make a mistake in raising a good son, when it just meant we have to waste time having Clark learning to be a good person as a 30 year old adult? How is it not a huge waste of time?
Because it shows the more realistic world depicted recently in DC movies (like the Nolan Bat flicks). Pa Kent knows the government would come down on him and his family, that if they COULD find a weakness (and keep in mind he doesn't know how strong Superman is) they would use it. And they do! It comes up in BvS and Suicide Squad.

Superman is there to help people. And just like Jesus (which the movie pushed hard to make an obvious parallel) the government at the time was not ready or willing to have someone do that.

Pa Kent knew it. Everyone knows it. No sensible person now would look at their super strong child and tell them to go and show off. They'd be locked in a lab and vivisected by the end of the week.

>>93061077

Superman was always a good person. It's like for you it only matters when he has a costume. All the previous good-deeds are of no importance.

>>93061119
Yeah because he was being forced to do evil by Lex.

>>93061119
It's the way he's portrayed. In the BvS montage, Superman is seen over the house of some flood victims who reach out to him, hovering above, unmoving, with his head darkened. When he saves the Mexican girl from the fire everyone reaches out to him and he looks to the fire, despondent.
He should be looking at the victims, reaching out to them as well, and maybe reassure them a bit that things are bad but will be alright. "It's okay, folks, I'm Superman. I'm here now".

>>93061135

That was before and in a moment of middle self-doubt. He's allowed one of those.

>>93061182
>Superman is there to help people. And just like Jesus (which the movie pushed hard to make an obvious parallel) the government at the time was not ready or willing to have someone do that.
The film directly contradicts you. After the aliens show up in a UFO , absolutely nothing changed. No panic, no mass suicides, the stock market barely moved. Pa Kent was wrong.

>>93061173
Not at all.
The right thing was waiting until he was ready to be Superman.

>>93061173

It doesn't.

>Once again explaining the concept as if we don't understand it. The fact that the Kents would try to convince Clark to NOT be a hero is so asinine it might as well just be some original character pastiche of Superman.

That's your headcanon.

Snyder should have had a co-writer who actually had a positive bone in their body. Who at least cared about people or could fake it.

It was self loathing pseudo intellectual poppycock. For gods sake all he needed was to dump the measured use of power and need to look cool and in control crap and just decide to go full on positive with it.
Have him save some people in a burning building but then stop to save a kitten stuck in a tree. That kind of shit.

The entire show stank with a complete disregard for and general dislike of people. That his power and want to protect people was this terrible burden and not something that is an intrinsic part of who he is and something he genuinely enjoyed.
Like he stood as an allmight godking upon a throne and looked down upon everyone beneath his feet.

He's a seemingly less callous Justice Lords Superman except he lacks the ability to be entertaining.

Superman should have been put into the hands of someone who could do a good happy movie with all of the bells and whistles. Everyone was excellently cast...except Lois. Goddamn. Faora should have been Lois goddamnit.
Or Jennifer Connelley.
Snyder should have been given the Justice League movie and a better writer. He could have done it justice.

>>93061110
>The fact that the Kents would try to convince Clark to NOT be a hero is so asinine it might as well just be some original character pastiche of Superman.
This.

This is like Uncle Ben lecturing Peter on egoism right before dying.

>>93061166
Donner Superman spent those years being educated and prepared by Jor-El, not busing tables and wrecking semi trucks.
He was literally being trained by Space Dad to utilize his powers effectively and intelligently.

Sure Synderman would save the life of someone in imminent danger of dying in his immediate presence, but ANYONE would do this if there was no risk to themselves.

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The only way to save the DCEU Superman at this point is to let another writer handle him, and maybe frame his death as the "aha!" moment that really made him grasp what being a hero to Earth's people means to him. Make it clear that his choice to die protecting humanity means that he's no longer struggling with the question of if he's doing the right thing, there's no more doubt or uncertainty.

The next Superman outing needs to take a page from Wonder Woman's book, in other words- part of the reason WW worked was that Diana, as a character, was a true believer in the cause of justice. It's not an angle we see much anymore in superhero media, it's been very in-vogue the last ten or fifteen years to be dark and cynical.

The worm's turning, though. The world's ready for the optimistic, idealist Superman that the DCEU needs him to be. WW just proved that point.

>>93061190
Was he being forced by Lex to save victims of a flood? Did Lex have a Kyrptonite bullet for Superman if he didn't save that rocket?

>>93061208
The whole movie is him self-doubting himself! He takes action at the end to save Lois. He even goes to the Kryptonian ship not because of his agenda; Lois and Batman tell him "They need you there". He's led by every single character he meets, at all times, throughout two movies. Until he dies.

>>93060262
>It's okay guys, I took my Super-Prozac today!

>>93061130
>What the hell are you on about? Superman does good and does not need governments to tell him otherwise. He isn't a government employee and technically not an American. Clark Kent is the American. There is no reason why Superman should stop being good just because Americans suck. That is not a justification.
It's a perfect justification for the way the story was written. The government is not going to trust Superman, even if he drapes himself in American flags.
>What if Superman had decided to fly down, rip off the roof of the White House and grab the President of the United States right out of the Oval Office? Who would've stopped him?
And why not? Obama killed people with drones. Trump is Hoggish Greedly. Bush authorized torture. To the government, if Superman's a good guy, why wouldn't he stop them?

>>93061203

He was smiling while saving the girl, actually.

>>93061233

So you think Superman should learn everything from space dad?

>>93061233
ok, anyone but Pa Kent.

>>93061222
>The right thing was waiting until he was ready to be Superman.
Your choice of words show the problem.

"waiting for him to be ready" is "never".

What Pa Kent was suppose to do was "prepare Clark to become Superman". That was what all the past Pa Kents did. Instead of saying they need more time, the Kents focus on getting their son ready for the world. They WORKED towards making their son ready.

Waiting? Waiting for what? For Zod to show up?

>>93061241
Misfire
>>93061135

>>93061257
Then it got weird.

>>93061208
Not so fucking early! Christ defenders love to say that MoS doen't count as Superman yet because he's still learning the ropes.
Well, it's the second act, time to have your shit together and he's STILL waffling about and acting dour. Give us Superman already not this weird duller than Bizzaro version.
How do you guys not see that? How are you satisfied with his characterization thus far!? I honestly feel like I'm an alien trying to understand your hu-mon customs with this shit.

>>93061252

Not really. He only self-doubt after the capitol bombing. Before he was actually being stubborn in not caring about what people said about him.

Stop creating fanfics.

>>93061172
>it's about a messianic figure appealing to the People and representing the greater good and man's best nature.
Yeah and like the Jesus narrative nothing bad should ever happen to him.

>>93061173
>Which directly contradicts Johnathan's stance in MoS
Jonathan was not thinking about the world. He's a fucking farmer. He's concerned about his family. He doesn't want his son to become a freakshow.

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>>93061257
>So you think Superman should learn everything from space dad?
I don't think Superman should be spending 12 years wandering the Earth as an autistic drifter-busboy with anger issues.
Sorry if that's just not grounded and realistic enough for you.

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>>93061257
This is the last shot of the scene. The one that lingers. Tell me what emotion leaves you with.

>>93061228
HOOOOWWW
"Maybe"
"You don't owe them anything"
Fucking hell Ghost Dad in MoS was the only one who understood the fucking character

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Superman Returns and Smallville were twin demons of shit that ruined a generations view on Superman. And the new movies are controversial instead of being outright enjoyed. Superman's rep can't recover now, only the hardcore fans still care about him, the normie audience has left the Daily Planet building to join Iron Man and Deadpool. It's over.

>>93061221
>The film directly contradicts you. After the aliens show up in a UFO , absolutely nothing changed. No panic, no mass suicides, the stock market barely moved.
Except Lex Luthor gets government access to the alien ship so he can develop a way to destroy Superman, and the Suicide Squad is formed. Waller said it herself, ever since he showed up, they've been crawling out of the woodwork.

>Pa Kent was wrong.
No shit. No one said he was always right.

>>93061229

Stop with your fanfics.

>>93060152
>Snyder killed Superman both figuratively and literally
Can't accuse him of half measures at least.

>>93060152
Of course he can. You can recover of anything, dumbass.

>>93061325

He's feeling weirded out by the worship.

Imo the DCEU just doesn't fit Superman. The things that make Superman great don't really mesh with the atmosphere they're going for.

If they want a good Superman movie they should leave DCEU Supes dead and make a series of movies based solely on the Superman family and his rogues gallery with their own theme and tempo. They should keep Cavil he could be a good Superman given the right script and director. They could start a DC Cinematic Multiverse. Maybe get some Milestone or Charleston movies in there.

>>93061325
Superman more like SUPER BALD LOL

>>93061325
He should be saying in Spanish with a reassuring tone "No, no. I'm just trying to help. Excuse me, always more to do!" Or something.
Not looking around like he's going to puke because they are touching him.

>>93061307
>Jonathan was not thinking about the world.
The Fuck?
He's giving him lengthy speeches about "changing the world" while he's just a confused kid.
You did watch this film, right?

>>93060666
>By making Pa Kent screw up his education, Clark loses his reason to love Earth.
Lois' pussy is just that great.

>>93061325
Honestly, he looks angry.

>>93061281
Any situation where Clark felt it was no longer suitable to remain in the shadows. That just so happened to be Zod.
>And I don't blame you, son. It'd be a huge burden for anyone to bear; but you're not just anyone, Clark, and I have to believe that you were... that you were sent here for a reason. All these changes that you're going through, one day... one day you're gonna think of them as a blessing; and when that day comes, you're gonna have to make a choice... a choice of whether to stand proud in front of the human race or not.

>>93060568
>He doesn't suspect the worst in people, he's just being real.
Has there ever in human history been a time when "I'm just being real" was not used as a defense by an asshole?

>>93061336
Smallville was good though.

I was watching "Nerdwritter" videos the other day and at one moment he tells that the first three season of "Smallville" was the most important TV series during his teenage years and helped him growing up.

>>93061362

Snyder's depiction is cancer though

>>93061390
Fucking this. He just looks like some distant thing that barely cares about what he is doing.

Like Doc.Manhatan.

>>93061392
>He's giving him lengthy speeches about "changing the world" while he's just a confused kid.
Yes, by being a completely normal kid. Just like every parent tells their child. Hell, even public school teachers do it.

>>93061421
>Smallville was good though.
LOL

>>93061325
>I'm tired
>My cape hurts
>The burrito salesman won't take my money, now I feel awkward about telling him he got my order wrong
>I wish I were at home taking a bath

>>93061378
Which he shouldn't. Is he retarded?
"Why are these deeply religious people who pass out when they think they see a Mary-shapes turd acting this way to a guy who just did a Jesus Christ Pose as he flew over us?"

>>93061419
When they're right?

>>93061429
Yes, it is.

>>93061414
He waited in the shadows for over a decade.
A LOT of terrible shit went on around the world in that decade. The Zod shit only happened because of Clark's direct illicit meddling.

>>93061438
Better than AoS.

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God damn, i hate discussing about DCEU Superman here. You guys twist everything the movie presents and create the most stupid fanfics imaginable all to justify your hate. The responses are so crazy and stupid that is baffling.

>>93061435
>Yes, by being a completely normal kid. Just like every parent tells their child.
He's showing him his space-pod and explaining that he's an alien life-form, because he's developing freaky unnatural powers.
He's already doomed to live an interesting life.

>>93061325
>That guy came out of the bathroom and did not wash his hands before touching me

>>93061461
Honest question, then:

What do you think of DCEU Kents and their "you don't have to help anyone" philosophy? Does it fit Superman's lore?

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>>93061461
If you think someone is an asshole, they are an asshole.
If you think everyone is an asshole, YOU are the asshole.

>>93061461
>Posts Superdeadbeat
That sort of perfectly illustrates the problem with doing Superman as anything less than absolutely perfect. Superman comes home from a hard day of Supering gets a phone call that he's needed in the middle of nowhere. Boom! Here's your shady government rape baby, raise it.
No
You're really a piece of shit, Clark

>>93061461
The fact that there is any doubt to get a fingerhold into about the character is a flaw in the first place. These are talks you have about characters whose flaws are embedded or silly imaginary stories. MoS invented new baggage for a whole audience of would be Superman fans and it fucked everything up.

>>93061172

You know you fucked up when Wonder Woman out-supermans Superman and your target audience doesn't give a single fuck about his death or his return.

>>93060773
I swear we had this conversation just last night but I'll say it again. By the time the tornado scene happens, Clark is at least 19 years old; an adult in the eyes of most of the world. If he's still not mature enough to make his own decisions by then, it's because his parents (his father specifically) infantalized him and stymied his ability to do so.

What's more, wouldn't giving up his identity to save his father be another kind of sacrifice?

Apropos of nothing whenever people praise this Superman for "being more grounded" it just reminds me of how Superman: Grounded was one of the worst Superman stories in my lifespan.

>>93061087
The only thing that could have saved that was something that could have also made the Lois character feel like something that was more then just a useless tacked on thing that just appeared for no reason.

Have a...rumor of a man with extraordinary abilities helping people.
That he's been at it for well over a decade.
A super-man.
This superman has been involved in major events across the world both minor and fantastic.
Have it be Lois's pet project, her little X-files thing. Something that she's keeping an eye on for her next Pulitzer prize.

She's the first one to recognize him and piece things together. When he saves her from some major event, maybe the globe falling on her, while wearing his iconic colors but in plain clothes she, for lack of a better name, calls him superman.
Thus begins the legend of the wandering hero named superman.
He helped people, he ran around faster then a locomotive and leaped tall buildings while keeping himself hidden.

Only after he gets the message from outer space and finds his home ship does he begin to realize that he should stop hiding and fly.

>>93061511
I think you're a fucking asshole.

>>93061502
I've no problem with Martha's. Superman really does not owe anyone on Earth anything: What that message is conveying is that he helps because he wants to, not because of some imposed morality. It's a good message.

Pa's is all garbage, though.

>>93061529
>and your target audience doesn't give a single fuck about his death or his return.
I'm really, really curious about the theater's reaction to his return will be when I finally see the movie. The Justice League will be on the verge of defeat from Darkseid's army and then HE returns just in time... will the crowd cheer at all?

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>>93061569
People help others because they've been instilled with a sense of compassion and duty by others, even if it's just by example.

People are naturally selfish to one degree or another.

>>93061593
Honestly it will seem predictable and contrived.
Fuck, we didn't even get out of BvS without getting an indication that he's just super-sleeping it off.

>>93060960
This. What killed my ability to enjoy this Superman wasn't the neck snap, or the tornado of doom, or even the general tone, it was the line
>On my planet, it means hope.
Right then, that's when it lost me. Because Krypton isn't his planet. It was where he was born, but it's not what he'd identify as his home.

>>93061502

That's the thing, anon. That's it right there.

MoS showed us a Pa Kent that thought in the macro scale. He didn't really meant that Clark shouldn't help people, he just worried that if Clark's secret got out while he was still a kid that there'd be no way to protect him and it would jeopardize his grand future. Pa Kent fully believed that Clark meant something great and good to the world. That when Clark grew up he'd change the world forever and for the better. He didn't to jeopardize that future. Risking letting his secret out that time even if Clark meant good saving the kids could be awful. Smallville was not important in the grand scale of things. What matters is the world.

In BvS Martha was just sick of seeing Superman being dragged through the mud while all he does is help everyone. She wanted to comfort him by saying that if he doesn't want he doesn't have an obligation, he doesn't need to suffer this shit. It's ultimately his choice, though. She only wants the best for him.

So how can you guys take all of that and twist it in such a manner where the end result is that all the Kents ever said was for Clark to never help anyone?

I mean, look at this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEbx4MUEvnU

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>>93061600
>He thinks people in the 1950's expected you to be figuring out your shit into your 30's.

You dumb faggot.

>>93061606
>People help others because they've been instilled with a sense of compassion and duty by others, even if it's just by example.
Doesn't contradict her message. At the end, it is Superman's choice to do stuff as a grown-ass man. His mother is telling him that he does not have to bear the burden of the world just because he exists; he helps because of who he is.

>>93061105
The "right thing" in the metaphor of ghost Jon's story saving his own stuff at the cost of someone else's though.

>>93061643
This'd be a great scene if Clark was 19 or 20 in it.

It's rather pathetic as a middle-aged man.
And It's hilarious Goyer-script that he "finds" a job at the largest city newspaper with NO JOB REFERENCES after high school whatsoever.

>>93061340
That's not Man of Steel. That's BvS.
If they were serious about doing it they should've done it in the same movie where the dilemma got brought up in the first place. They didn't. They chose to leave it off until the sequel, which was made with those complaints in mind.

It was a problem they failed to address the first time and only afterwards tried to damage control it. Poorly. Like with the conveniently vacant swathes of city for the doomsday fight.

>>93061643
There's not much twisting a dialogue that goes
>So I should've let them die?
>...Maybe.

And then asks him again not to act even to save his father's life. I get the message he was trying to convey, but it's presented in the worst way possible. Not only grown manchildren go watch Superman; in fact it should be one of the heroes most aimed at younger audiences. And that's the way he's presented in? That's what gets me: Everyone should be able to enjoy a Superman story. Especially the one where he's introduced.

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>>93061429
is Patty Jenkins the chemo to save the DCEU?

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>>93061728
>There's not much twisting a dialogue that goes
You underestimate the mental gymnastic abilities of the turbo-autist fanboys hereabouts.

Just wait for it.

>>93061706
>This'd be a great scene if Clark was 19 or 20 in it.
>It's rather pathetic as a middle-aged man.
Seriously, if MoS and BvS was "The adventures of Super Boy" instead, we can at least tolerate his immaturity.

But having Clark being a hobo for years was a massive waste and kills his identity as Clark.

This thread is full of autism.

Autism and stupidity. Get over yourselves faggots. Yes people still like Superman. Yes people will be happy to see him in JL. In BvS Bats was a fucking murderer but people still want to see Affleck Bats movie. If MoS2 happens people will go see it.

>>93061735
We'll know if Gadot is able to move past Jethro Bodeen from Paradise Island and can actually play a sophisticated and nuanced role.

She didn't give me much confidence in BvS.
And WB isn't going to let Patty direct films with a quarter billion price tag on them.

>>93061757
>Yes people still like Superman.
Well of course, because if we don't like Superman we wouldn't be in this thread at all. We are here because we do like Superman and reject the Snyder portrayal of him.

>>93061728

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfoNXQDWBs

Watch the scene. Look how conflicted Jonathan is when he says "Maybe".

>>93061593
You're assuming that when he returns it'll be as a good guy.

>>93061728
everything his two dads say are one-liners made for the trailer stitched together into a confusing mess

>>93061787
>And WB isn't going to let Patty direct films with a quarter billion price tag on them.
Why not? She earned the right.

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>>93061757
>but people still want to see Affleck Bats movie

People will show up to watch anyone play fucking Batman. The long list of Batmen is a testament to this fact. Sadfleck could fade out after JL and no one would give a single fuck, just like the last 4 Batmen before him.

>>93061801
>Watch the scene. Look how conflicted Jonathan is when he says "Maybe".
Of course he is conflicted, he knows what he was saying is wrong but doesn't have the conviction of saying the right thing instead. He failed as a father. When your son ask what moral choices you would have made, the whole point is he is asking for guidance. And Pa choose poorly.

>>93061625
I never thought about that.
We spend so much time on a fully fleshed out Krypton and and the alien ships and their society.
But we see very little of the life superman actually lead on earth.
He's just a wandering hobo who's not actually human or part of the human race.
He's got no place to exist because throughout the movie his parents have constantly told and assured him that he's not their actual child and that he's not human and that he's abnormal.
They never said he was their son and that he's human. That hes not some monster or abnormal or alien who has to hide not his powers but himself.
That what he wants to do with his power and to be good is right and to use his powers wisely and for good purpose.

He's been raised as an outsider and he acts as such. Earth isn't his home it's simply the place where the alien kal el lives.

>>93061643
>He didn't really meant that Clark shouldn't help people

It's really fucked up that you guys keep going "what they really mean is this" but then accuse your counterparts of twisting stuff.

>>93061791
>We are here because we do like Superman and reject the Snyder portrayal of him.
Snyder isn't running things anymore so pull the cocks out of your asses and get over it. Christ Superman Returns made Clark a scummy deadbeat dad yet I don't see as much butthurt. Whedon is going to make the JL movie a quipfest and Johns is all about hope and optimism.

>>93061806
When Wonder Woman makes nearly a billion dollars she'll have earned the right.
There are fantastically acclaimed movies that do not justify that kind of budget.

>>93061801
Saying maybe, however, is fucking unacceptable. No, son; you never let people die if you can do something about it. Just be careful because your exposure to the world blah blah blah ramification blah, etcetera.

Don't tell Superman to let people die in his movie, god dammit. This is basic.

>>93061820
Michael Keaton returned to popularity. Maybe not as much as his prime when he was The Batman but people still love the guy.

>>93061829

I just found Pa Kent a great character in MoS. He was dealing with an impossible situation. He messed up. He wanted good things for his son and the world, but at the same time he was scared of the consequences, of the burden, of what it all meant and could happen, and wanted to protect his kid. I always get emotional when i watch his scenes.

So it really deflates me when i see all the shitposting and weird fanfics created based on those scenes to justify some petty hate.

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>>93061840
>Christ Superman Returns made Clark a scummy deadbeat dad yet I don't see as much butthurt

Yeah, Batman Forever was awful and why wasn't anyone on 4chan complaining then?

You incredibly dense piece of shit.

>>93060562
>Man I'd kill myself like his daughter if he ruins the while DC Cinematic universe
kek

>>93061840
>hrist Superman Returns made Clark a scummy deadbeat dad yet I don't see as much butthurt.

Yes there was!
There was TONS of butt hurt.
People hated on the movie left and right!

>>93061820
>People will show up to watch anyone play fucking Batman
Newsflash kiddo. They'll come to see any capeshit character because muh childhood. That includes Supes.

Affleck was even more OOC than Clark since Clark at least seemed to regret killing but BvS Bats was killing people left and right no remorse.

Just give people a good movie and they'll go see it, they don't give a fuck about the autistic shit the retards ITT are complaining about.

>>93061840
When Batmam & Robin came out, there were a lot less complaints about Batmam Forever. Superman Returns may have been lackluster, but it isn't relevant in the franchise at all.

>>93061837

So how did Pa Kent meant Clark should help others when he tries to impart all the significance and weight Clark existence have to the world at large? When he say that Clark will have to make a choice standing in front of humanity?

>>93061872
Not an arguement faggot. They're clearly making a total 180 from Snyder after his two bombs so bitching about 4 year old movies is retarded. They have clearly heard you.

>>93061834
Exactly.
They spent too much time on Clark the alien and not enough on Clark the man. They spent most of Man of Steel showing that he was apart from everyone and everything; it's why he's bullied as a kid and why he's a vagrant as an adult.

And what's more, that's the version they're sticking with. They killed off his human friend for shock value.
There's a reason he's got Pete and Lana growing up. There's a reason he has Jimmy as a pal. But near as I can tell Lois is his first and only real connection to humanity outside of his adoptive parents. And he doesn't meet her until he's in his thirties.


Now to be fair, Jonathan DOES have a "you're my son" line in MoS. But that's one little flicker of light in a whole lot of "Clark stands alone". It makes the ending of that movie fall super flat; he gets welcomed to the planet after three decades, but I have no idea why he even cares about it.

>>93061864
>I just found Pa Kent a great character in MoS. He was dealing with an impossible situation. He messed up. He wanted good things for his son and the world, but at the same time he was scared of the consequences, of the burden, of what it all meant and could happen, and wanted to protect his kid. I always get emotional when i watch his scenes.
You relate to Pa Kent because he is a flawed parent, but that doesn't help the film at all. Pa Kent failed in raising his son properly, and that has direct long reaching consequences that affect the flow of the plot.

If you want a story about a bad father then so be it, but a Superman film is the wrong place for it.

>>93060209
>Give Superman a personality and make him actually have a drive to save people

He always had that. You have to be willfully ignorant to not acknowledge this.

>>93061901
Are you not allowed to complain about shit once it's 4 years old or something?

>>93061890
And now we have Johns and Whedon running the show. You think either of them are going to keep pushing the Snyderman interpretation? Everyone will be light hearted and quippy in JL. It will still probably be shit though.

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>>93061876
>Newsflash kiddo. They'll come to see any capeshit character because muh childhood.
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
I'm literally having a conversation with a retarded person on the internet!

>>93061897
That he should keep his head down because the world won't accept an alien; it'll shit itself inside out the second they find out about him. He's gotta stand in front of humanity as a human.

OR, and this is just a theory, maybe Goyer's just a bad writer and the speech wasn't thought out well at all.

>>93061924
The point was that /co/ itself had only crawled out of the slime and into existence 2 months prior to Superman Returns. It was a newborn slow-as-fuck board mainly concerned with comic piracy and cartoon fetishry.

>>93061939
All these years later and my anger still burns.

>>93061924
No but half of you seem to be under the delusion that Snyderman will carry forward. It won't. WW is going to be the template moving forward, not MoS or BvS. So bitching about how they've completely ruined Supes like they clearly aren't going to just drop that characterization once he comes back. I think JL will be shit, but not because it's too "dark" or Clark doesn't smile enough for you fags. It will be shit because WB let Snyder, a man who can't handle "deep" themes, create a whole fucking cinematic universe.

>>93061960

>That he should keep his head down because the world won't accept an alien; it'll shit itself inside out the second they find out about him. He's gotta stand in front of humanity as a human.

So why in the ever-love fuck did Jonathan tell Clark that he was sent to Earth for a reason and that even if it took his entire life he should find what that reason is?

>>93061939
>Literally being this retarded
Good one anon. Hal was not at all part of the milennial childhood you dumb fuck. Most people knew John.

>>93061593

They pretty much give away in the trailer that he's coming back as a villain with that song. They hammered away at it in bvs when the flash tells Bruce that Lois is the key and everything. Snyder can't be fucking subtle if his life depended on it.

And, no, the audience wouldn't give a shit either way since Wonder Woman fills the role of what Superman is supposed to be.

>>93061912
I know. He's got no human friends as a child and an adult, his parents flat out tell him that he's not their son(no I don't mean they say it in a sort of incidental way Pa Kent says You're not my son) and he's an alien who's not apart of this world and instill this weird paranoid hatefilled value system that is as alien as he is into him.

it's just deeply fucked up.
He's not superman.
This movie isn't Man of Steel.
It should be Kal El from Krypton.

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>>93061979
>WW is going to be the template moving forward, not MoS or BvS.
Not necessarily the case, the Nolan films are equally well regarded, and unlike Wonder Woman broke the billion dollar mark.

Wonder Woman will only become the New Direction if it's immensely profitable.
It's really far more likely that things will go Whedon's direction than Patty's.

>>93061939
What a retarded decision that was. Hal was and is literally who for a ton of people, John is the GL for kids these days.

>>93062021
There's a difference? Patty may be less of a quipster but she followed the Marvel Method pretty much.

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>>93062003
>milennial
What the fuck are you on about now?
Don't tell me you think that JLU is driving the success of Wonder Woman and the Batman movie franchise.

Just put down the shovel and stop digging the stupid-hole deeper.

>>93062021
FLASH AND CYBORG LOOK LIKE SHIT! SHIIIIT

>>93060152
How about you get a fucking writer and director that LIKE him? Zach Snyder was cumming in his pants at the thought of seeing Batman beat the shit out of Supes in BvS.

Jesus, Jerry Seinfeld could make a better Superman movie AND it would be funny for the right reasons.

>>93062043
That's a fair point, Wonder Woman would have fit well in the MCU.
It's about time WB started doing what works (again) and got off of Goyer/Snyderfaggotry.

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>>93062043
Wonder Woman is eerily like First Avenger in tone and substance.
Now they just need an Iron Man.

>>93060659
>>93060953
The true is no one want to work on Superman because he's superlame. That's how Snyder got the job in the first place, for better or worse he's a fanboy and he couldn't let pass the chance to get into the DCEU. Breaking news, fanboys are morons. For real directors's opinions on Superman, see George Miller's rant about how lame is Superman compared to Batman. Superman is that ugly kid no one want to play with.

>>93062049
>>>93062003 (You) #
>>milennial
>What the fuck are you on about now?
>Don't tell me you think that JLU is driving the success of Wonder Woman and the Batman movie franchise.
Don't put words in my mouth dumbfuck. Nolan is driving the Batman franchise. WW is succeeding because it's the first major female superhero in modern times and it reviewed well.

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>>93062094

>Now they just need an Iron Man.

>>93062121

That's the thing people forget, Goyer and Snyder like Superman.

>>93062121
>The true is no one want to work on Superman because he's superlame
Wrong.
>see George Miller's rant about how lame is Superman compared to Batman.
So he's a Batfag. But he's not speaking for all directors dumbass.

Snyder got the job because he would do the movie FAST you idiot. WB needed a movie out to keep the Superman rights. The others wanted time to review the script.

>>93060324
SNYDER
DID
NOT
WRITE
THE
FUCKING
STORY
GOYER
DID
YOU
FUCKING
NIMROD

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>>93062141
Sadfleck is Tony Stark with none of the charisma and double the PTSD (and alcoholism).

Seriously, Ben has never had a fraction of Robert's screen presence in his entire life, and certainly not at this point.

>>93062164
No they don't have you fucking forgotten Goyer's original script? He wanted the whole movie told through Lois eyes, so Supes could be the otherworldly alien. Nolan was the one most in touch with Supes, he fucking tried to tell them that having Supes kill Zod was a bad idea and they should just send him to the PZ with the others.

>>93062164
Snyder likes Batman but he was OK with killing time with Superman. He was a stepping stone but that's more than other directors on Hollywood are willing to deal with

>>93060324
>Zack Snyder has really done inrecovable damage to the character.
>/co/ is retarded enough to believe this
Holy fuck you guys are retarded.

>>93061984
Finding out why he was sent to earth and keeping his head down aren't mutually exclusive.

>>93062168

>Snyder got the job because he would do the movie FAST you idiot. WB needed a movie out to
keep the Superman rights. The others wanted time to review the script.

Nope, WB was going to do Superman Live By super fast to keep the rights. They just lucked out that Nolan showed up with Goyer's script wanting to do a Superman movie. So they got rid of their project and gave Nolan the go ahead. It was Nolan who picked Snyder.

>>93062224
They could easily punt and reboot Superman in 4-5 years as a fresh start.
The problem is that they need a good Superman NOW.

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>>93062224
Superman has been dead since TDKR. It's just that DC and a vocal minority of fanboys can't let him go.

>>93062121
>>93062164
It's weird how you guys insist Snyder likes Superman when in Snyder's own words he didn't like classic superheroes and was more into Heavy Metal.

Stop making him Jesus and edgy, and go back to good ol' boy Supes.

>>93062250
>They just lucked out

>Implying MoS was lucky for anyone.
Man, I remember the heady days when Man of Steel was going to eclipse the entire MCU.
Good, good times.

>>93062169
Not the anon you're responding to but: Nimrod is a mighty biblical hunter. Bugs referred to Elmer as "Nimrod" sarcastically, like calling someone stupid "Einstein." Nimrod is not, in and of itself, an insult.

>>93062265
>Outsells all Marvel characters
>Outsells every DC character but Batman and even Action Comics has beaten Tec a couple months
Retarded Batfag.

>>93062234
>Finding out why he was sent to earth
because krypton was exploding?

>>93062278
when you have to explain the entire history of a word to justify it not being an insult, it's an insult.

>>93062269
Every hero needs to be "relatable" these days, what mean being a self-centered douche and/or a weak nerd suddenly getting powers but being so awesome that he doesn't turn into another bully. At least that's what Hollywood believe these days

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>>93062265
>Batfags unironically believe this
Sad!

>>93062321
What? No that's completely wrong. Every hero needs to be a quippy sociopath like Iron Man. That's what sells.

>>93062321
You just described Spider-Man who is still well loved and 55 years old.

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>>93062298
I see Mickey Mouse's merchandise everywhere but I seriously doubt most of those kids know who the hell is Mickey Mouse beyond Disney's mascot and even less watched some of his short films.

>>93062200

Nah, man. Goyer wanted a romantic movie starring Lois where she'd pierce the life of this folksy alien hero and convince him to be Superman. Nolan wanted a more sci-fi take focusing on Krypton and a third encounter kind of thing with Krypton clashing with Earth.

And yes, Nolan was against Superman murdering Zod, but Goyer managed to convince Snyder to side with him and later even asked what DC thought about it, with Nolan and Goyer giving the final say to the DC editors. Dc said fuck yeah.

You know what, i'll just search the interviews. There's this hilarious bit where Snyder had this huge-ass sequence with Jor-El and his robot servant Kellex becoming some transformers and wrecking Zod's guys and he was pretty sad to see it cut.

>>93061325
>"Lois. Lois, why are these Mexican Zombies stroking me gently?"
>"JUST STAND THERE CLARK, EYAGH, SO FUCKING HOT"[/spoilhttps://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AOPBWq9qx1H49ZZpigPVOaqdG8HVmCIbfEdZ2LaYtMo-xvBBdosFJ2hDb7KE4O6VViReOy8QFa7hWYCYQskgGQ07rElBuZQ1ECructEuXGvNChN4lwyw7-6_z3SjHUPN0fbMooyLXpnSG6T1nIsMnfiyHtBwxqPo7IOCVbleMAlfMN9Q45kgFfkSI5lwJS4LalFAWdl517NdowsF9nfiJpr15dQRF-F3QQ&th=,j35Xfl-wnlBkBYxhQaq2ZcjLhdGBSXjwAAAAzqAAAAHNawN3U-IDB7ZseISLFrjuHJcTL1mIiLP6eGl7pW8CxO-mIUgSMAJniuyKkT809JNsWI1B3t9bDpb6BOJGKufXQQPYJQrZky0t5LDGBnM7B0CILqz-_kfRA3CeaZ1nXW0JDL8qEh-dTrB2OkrKymFVT39NB_YPkdBxcMTsi3zMbxdZtqac48f2sc6WdjJtKOzFB5Cj8wQFYI9FR0i7iyFFuAKcGubIfpTof0c-RUfVR1GA-ifWqiPhxeG3Fu2obLKgsxALrWf31u13ye1utCGLh8A030Vzr0KDX-3Bu-jL_J4aw4P6e1foEUtTOUnsIlJuditQCEm4NPXp79N14X3fe_ye_wBJAnqAKLfIp4l3m7s6O_eYoF7pUEcKNhvMYYezQdLx5wOIVq-NH1_bymXOK8WK0Vj7qYbSyt6x3GdXW7AA18-QnpGf9IL0ZXJIKEheRB3oXerwVEhbnxXMYgjXcSLPGleJmr9Y2Iw9Bu0L2bEHffwuWBqX04N1IsMvQYvAJT3csDbvl-33q_ZKwj-sLrRAXpsXNgZl_j-Hu4tuiSj2x8R8D0UCWdhLj7-35FVvPAdulO9vhjVJQPMIS-pMHaEYyzqu3lDnwmO6z8TKzLT41nIk-4ifVk1IWpKJmYhOHpdg2ZJxq0PF7kJWzUsSVQDayJUfAhfPkS86uJnJfg6x93VndZETQnSpRw7DHvRX6Zuwja67lVUbSn8mvrB6Q-XRnwr8g33CWWzGTq8QTc_Wa7qhn3WsacN7rwNG-y4LUJSE3kgPlGNkTHbe4bknspwkFA5uVcoTfYxxq_2-laXuUYVOGnVrzybmz5ZANLBeTd0JNG9FHcD-0p-ZCBq1Z0yiDY9sOxzHtNYvadgcT9qSrpHzrkJadNdN5L0BL9aXPjvSSaY2ZRbLYOVw0cqZi2Q2Aqtu9WisjmF9sxP1_7tyjjB3HEXA_kUa5dMIdW9uhxi-BoryXPsEwKWEcTTG6qR0T9_waw56-yKISeQ7KTpnfK1CtouU7kNr9LhlneMDEBZGMh6LejlLc7XDXlFhRPi-Lmd8Kk2BcDy2Iy7Fkg-6FSeSXHRPOP0Zr5_mfj4MkZMoEi5LzvnpUMW7wWTPE-IE9m7ZnbDJgdz-DOX5x9drfU3gqIS9jPwE4NC-LPHQ1JZHINHgBp_xVIr3Bq0_qvxTfW71jpb-GPker]

Just make him like DCAU supes. Still a boyscout but had a bit of edge to him.( like when he "cuts loose" against Darkseid) Best superman portrayal outside of comics. Cavill is just fine and actually looks the part.

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>>93062321
Really, which of the Avengers are relateable?
The billionaire super-genius?
The fearless and super-noble hero-soldier?
The super-genius rage monster?
The agent who was trained from a toddler to be a super-assassin?

WB is just now finally getting away from making their heroes sad creeps.

>>93062314
When you don't understand the tools at your disposal, you're more likely to hurt yourself. So in carpentry, cooking, and literature.

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>>93062353
Iron-Man falls into the self.centered douche being so awesome that he doesn't turn into another bully

>>93062361
This shit started with the baby boomers and took Hollywood in the 80s. It's a long process, you know. Besides, DC started to feel ashamed of Superman since the Bronze Age and things got worst since then.

>>93062176

but I find his depression alluring, anon

>>93062362
Garbage like 'Mickey Mouse needs to PEE on Minnie Mouse's BATHTUB!' gets millions and millions of views. Toddlers and young kids probably know the warped Youtube version of him now instead of the actual character. I'm not even doing a KIDS THESE DAYS rant, it's just pretty sad when you think about it.

>>93062362
Are you seriously comparing fucking Superman to Mickey Mouse? How fucking dumb are you? You are aware that as shitty as MoS was it still made a solid amount of money?

>>93062399
Makes you wonder when the red boots are gonna go.

>>93062390
Douche
Nerd
Nerd
If you mean Black Widow, she isn't supposed to be relatable. She's a piece of meat for fap purposes. That's why she'll never get her own movie

>>93062362
Then you're as retarded as you appear. Kids watch Mickey Mouse's Clubhouse all the time. Feel free to kys.

>>93062416
>You are aware that as shitty as MoS was it still made a solid amount of money?
You honestly believe a Disney feature starring Mickey wouldn't? If the bar is Man of Steel box office, I'd like to assure you it would.

>>93062390
All of them? Iron Man fucks up all the time, Captain America is naïve and ideallistic, Black Widow tries to fix his friend up on dates in her downtime... You don't have to be them to relate to them, moron; they just need to show a certain real-life action that people connect with sometime. Which MoS never did.

>>93062430
They already went and then came back this year. Holy fuck is this entire thread dumbass /tv/ posters?

>>93062432
Nerds are people who hang out in threads like this arguing about movies.
These guys are Teslas and Einsteins who can pull SCIENCE! devices out of their asses at a moments notice.

>>93062310
...Yeah, exactly.
That's why "Jonathan telling Clark he was sent to earth for a reason" is just kinda dumb. The reason is because his old planet blew up. What happens after that is up to his earth parents.

Instead this shit gets it twisted because for all its supposed flaws Krypton got its dick sucked super hard and Earth is a shithole filled with assholes and bullies.

>>93062450
Yes it would and that's why your comparison is retarded. You're implying that fucking Mickey Mouse wouldn't get people in seats? What the fuck was the point of your dumbass comparison?

>>93062478
That's the wish-fulfillment element. Nerds will never get super-steroids and getting huge muscles without lifting or hanging out with gods who claim to not be gods for the Chinese market and not fucking way to save the world.

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>>93062460
Is it ok that I just don't read Superman comics anymore?
Because they are hot recycled nostalgia?
I stopped giving a shit about Myxyzptlk 30 years ago.

>>93062480
gotta shoehorn the christ figure shit in somehow

>>93060152
They ruined his entire story setup in BvS.

They just HAD to bury Clark...

>>93062480
>...Yeah, exactly.
>That's why "Jonathan telling Clark he was sent to earth for a reason" is just kinda dumb. The reason is because his old planet blew up.
And how the fuck is he supposed to know that?
>What happens after that is up to his earth parents.
>Instead this shit gets it twisted because for all its supposed flaws Krypton got its dick sucked super hard and Earth is a shithole filled with assholes and bullies.
>Krypton had its chance!
How does SNYDER make a movie that is too deep for you? Did you miss the point of Clark's natural conception? Jesus dude.

David S. Goyer interview about how MOS was created:

>The movie feels distant from previous Superman films and some of the comics, but I read how this all started by you picking up a few Superman comics while working on The Dark Knight Rises. Which comics were they and did they have an impact on the film?

What I went back and read was an archive edition of the very first Action Comics, which was the first thing I read. In some ways, it’s a bit odd, because that iteration of Superman doesn’t fly and he kills people left and right. I was surprised to see that. It got me thinking about Superman in a different way. I’ve been an on and off again Superman reader throughout the years, but I just got curious, as an exercise, to read the first year or so of his start, to see how much has changed.

>At what point did it go from being an exercise to making Man of Steel?

I don’t know. I read them instead of working on The Dark Knight Rises one afternoon, which led me to start writing some “what ifs?” ideas. I had pages of notions which I told Chris Nolan about. I didn’t have any expectations that it would become anything. I knew they were developing Superman with various other people and talking to various other people about it. It just took on a life of its own.

1/?

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>>93062529
>How does SNYDER make a movie that is too deep for you?

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>>93062487
Mickey can't even get his own show besides those shorts that were heavely criticized for going back to the character's roots instead of being a bland mascot. Meanwhile Donald is getting an upcoming new show, Ducktales. Not including he had the Quack Pack on the 90s

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>>93062503
>Haha I'm too cool to care!
Nice "save" retard. Fuck off back to >>>/tv/

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>>93062531
>Superman doesn’t fly and he kills people left and right. I was surprised to see that. It got me thinking about Superman in a different way.

At this point he should have just written a Stardust movie.

God help me, I would have went to it.

>>93062531

>Do you recall some of those initial ideas?

The first thing I wrote down…I went back and read the early John Byrne Man of Steel reboot and seeing a panel where Jor-EL was talking to Lara and there was a monitor with a picture of farmers in Kansas wearing overalls. I just thought, “How does he have images of farmers in Kansas?” It presupposes he has some kind of satellite in Earth’s orbit. I remember in the Donner film them talking about Earth as well. It occurred to me, “Wow, they really jumped over this massive plot point, the fact that Earth exists.” This led me to think Kryptonians had been aware of Earth for years and might’ve been to Earth before. I thought maybe they landed on earth 18 or 20,000 years ago, with the ship buried in the ice, which is the ship Clark finds. I even remember sketching Superman seeing paintings by Neanderthals in the ship. I thought, “What if you look at this legend through a different lens?”, and that was the thread I started pulling.

>How about the character of Clark? Was there anything else left untouched in the previous films you wanted to explore?

I’ve said this before in other interviews, but I wanted to go back to the notion of exploring Superman’s science-fiction roots. I felt the fact that he was an alien was given short shrift in the films and, to a certain extent, the comic books. I remember saying to Chris this is really a first contact story. If you strip away the superpowers, it would still be the biggest story that happened in human history. I know it’s a cliché to say we wanted to attempt a more realistic take. We wanted to take this film more serious which, for some critics, they didn’t want to see; it seems like the fans did.

>>93062523
That was always Snyder's vision, Batman will change the world as the leader of the Justice League. Superman was a stepping stone on his vision. Going for the Christian imaginery, Superman is Jesus and Batman is St Peter and the latter did the real job of converting the pagans and expanding the faith while Jesus never left Palestine. That's why the Catholic tradition recognized Peter as the first Pope

>>93062539
The fact that you think Krypton, which is repeatedly shown to be shit and has Jor-El go out of his way to break all their taboos, is somehow dicksucked just means the entire movie went over your head. I'm honestly in awe of how dumb you must be that the Michael Bay Superman movie was too deep for you.

What the fuck do you think the point of
>Krypton had its chance
Was?

>>93062529
>And how the fuck is he supposed to know that?
He's not. But more importantly it doesn't actually matter. Clark's story doesn't start in space. It starts when he gets picked up by the Kents.

>How does SNYDER make a movie that is too deep for you? Did you miss the point of Clark's natural conception? Jesus dude.
2deep4u already?
The fact is that Krypton was supposedly this huge flawed system, but what we're shown is a technologically advanced wonder with ridable dragons, robot butlers, and badass action scientists. It gets all the color, all the visual pinache.

And then there's earth. A grey drab slog where everyone is either a dumb panicky animal that will flip out if they find out they're not alone in the universe, or a brazen jackass of a bully to torment the poor spaceman.
Yes, Krypton it has a shitty government, but Earth is depicted as having that too. All of the flaws, but no real perks to balance it out. Even Clark's big "you can do it. you can be a hero!" thing comes from Jor-El more than it does Jonathan.
The movie LOVES dickriding Krypton for all its supposed flaws of having a caste system that didn't even actually matter seeing as how a science nerd can beat up the engineered general in a fist fight.

And let me ask you this. If Krypton was so utterly shitty, why's it getting a spinoff series?

>>93062545
why did it take you an hour just to post a reaction image

>>93062545
>You must continue to read something you hate or else you don't have nerd cred

>>93062543
Mickey Mouse Clubhouse nigga.

Beware the Batman was a failure, does that somehow mean Batman isn't popular? Fuck no.

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>>93062588
I'm not the guy arguing Krypton with you, I'm just recognizing your Grade A shitposting.
Do go on, it's amusing as fuck.

But for the record, it went over no one's head, and your reinterpretation of it is a shit.
A shit!

Not even joking, but he needs to become Superman Blue/Red.

>>93062576

>Was there anything autobiographical in the movie?

More specifically, an entire conversation that Clark Kent has with Jonathan Kent, where Jonathan Kent says “You have another father” and [Clark] says, “Can I keep pretending that I’m your son.” That’s a direct lift of a conversation that I had with my stepson. So I have to actually give my stepson credit for that.

Can you tell me what it was like watching that scene with your stepson? Do you know how he reacted?

Oh, I mean it was great, but by that point my stepson was a little older so he was old enough to understand the concept. [Laughs.] But it was also just a moving experience watching that particular scene be filmed, because I was there as we were filming it with Kevin Costner. When we were out in the field and young Clark, I believe the actor’s name was Dylan, was sitting in the truck bed with Kevin Costner… we were out in a field so it was a very small crew, there were only about ten of us out there, and it was magic hour. It was in rural Illinois and it was only about three hours from where I grew up, so it was a kind of farm that was… it was all a very surreal experience.

I remember watching that scene and then Kevin coming up to me afterwards and saying, “Did I do okay? How did you feel about it?” Which was just insane that he was asking me that. I was completely choked up and had tears in my eyes and I said, “Yeah, you did great, Kevin.”

So, it was moving. It was moving. I mean, I became a stepfather and a father during the year that I was writing Man of Steel and that experience of being Jonathan Kent and being Jor-El in that regard – you know, having a biological son and a stepson – that’s what gave me the emotional “in” on that film. I don’t think I would have been able to write that film otherwise, without having had that experience as a father and a stepfather myself.

3/?

>>93062566

The slightly more likely Sentry movie is something I would watch if Marvel dug enough into their properties and the X-Men R-rated movies continued to be a thing.

>>93062025
Justice League Unlimited ended a decade ago, they're not kids anymore just nostalgic adult children.

>>93062599
This entire post is so retarded but I'll pick one part in particular that proved to me it's a waste of time dealing with you
>If Krypton was so utterly shitty, why's it getting a spinoff series?
Do you think people watch TWD because IT'S A BETTER PLACE TO LIVE THAN REGULAR LIFE YOU IDIOT? Do you think GoT is popular because life there is BETTER THAN HERE?

It's because those places are so FUCKED UP that's what fascinates people.

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>>93062602
>I'm going to show how dumb I am on the comics board but don't you dare call me out on it!
>>>/tv/

>>93062636

Here's Goyer going in a rant about the movie.

I never set out to do a Superman film. Chris Nolan and I were working on the story for The Dark Knight Rises and we reached a point where we had writer’s block and I just started re-reading some original Action Comics.

I remembered seeing the old Donner films and the Marlon Brandon Jor-El and he’s talking to his wife about “There’s this other planet we can send him to” and I remember thinking “It’s weird to me that he knows about this planet.” It seemed to me that maybe Kryptonians had been to Earth before, that they’d sent some unmanned probes or something like that. I had this image in my head of Clark, as an adult, in the North, finding this Kryptonian spaceship that had been buried in the ice for tens of thousands of years.

I’m a terrible artist but I just sketched out the Kryptonian symbol but painted on a cave as though cave men had seen it. This got me looking at the Superman myth in a different way, and was the thread I started pulling.

One of the things we learned with Batman is that when you take such an iconic figure, it’s important to respect the canon, but if a character is going to remain vital you have to kill some sacred cows. You have to question things. And one of the things that Chris and I had done within the “realistic” take on Batman, we weren’t going to do anything simply because that’s the way it’s done in the comics. We had to come up with our own internal logic.

4/?

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>>93062647
The people behind the MCU are not going to effectively remake Man of Steel.
It
Just
Won't
Happen.
They are even avoiding most of the 90's characters, because they know that they only appeal to their most crusty neckbearded comic fanbase. Deadpool being an exception, but that won't translate into X-Force being a thing.

>>93062697

I adore the Donner films but I felt that Superman, at least cinematically, had been preserved in amber for thirty five years. He never really evolved beyond the Donner films, and the Singer film, by his own intention, was an homage, sort of a direct sequel.

I also thought that he had been stuck in this Norman Rockwell, big blue boy scout, spit-curl era. A lot of people were questioning if Superman was still relevant, whether or not he could be meaningful. It’s been interesting to see the public’s reaction over the last year ago, and just the fact that people are talking about Man of Steel as much as they are now, it makes me feel like we’ve done our job right. If he can go toe to toe with some of the Marvel films then I think we’ll have done the character justice.

The basic idea of rebooting Superman as a largely science fiction film and a first contact story was what I initially came up with. That Superman would be wandering the Earth not fully-formed with the Phantom Zone villains being sent into a black hole. Those basic ideas were something that I brought to Chris. I think I’d written two or three pages. And even when I mentioned it to Chris I wasn’t fully thinking we would just go and make this movie, I was just wasting time, as you do, saying, “What if?” but [Nolan] said, “I would produce this film. Let’s see if we can set it up. I’ll be a producer or I’ll share story credit with you if you want.” And I’m not an idiot, so I said, “Yeah, share story credit with me.”

5/?

>>93062621
Not that guy but the person he replied to seems to have completely missed the point so some people obviously weren't paying attention. You'd have to be an utter moron to think Krypton is supposed to be the superior place when all the "good" guys go out of their way to act in defiance of it.

I've loved Superman for over 20 years, and I adore his portrayal in the DCEU. It's a refreshing change to see a Superman who has to grow into his role, learn what it means to have the weight of the world on your shoulders, and discover that every action has consequences, instead of just fitting into the role immediately. It's interesting to see a more modern and relevant take on what would happen if someone like Superman suddenly appeared in our world. There's nothing wrong with Boyscout Clark, but we've seen that in five other films before. Sometimes it's nice to see a new idea.

Plus, I don't think he's really comparable to Wonder Woman, since Diana grew up in a literal paradise. She was so idealistic because she'd never seen the suffering and evil of the outside world. But that was all put to the test, and she was so disillusioned, she backed out of fighting for good for almost 100 years. Superman never stopped trying to do what was right, despite the scrutiny and backlash against him.

I don't even know why people argue so much about his portrayal, it's quite clear to me no one is ever going to change anyone else's mind.

>>93062714

Then we did what we did on the Batman films. We met four or five times and we sort of broke the story on cards, and expanded it. Then, from that point onwards I wrote all the scripts. It’s hard to say what part was Chris because we just sat in a room and threw out ideas. It was just a fluid process. But from the script stage on it was all me, with Chris giving notes. I did two drafts and that’s when Zack came on board.

One of the things we were hoping to depict is that Superman is not a god. We say he’s a god-like figure but he’s not omnipotent. Even in the comic books he cannot save everyone. I think people die [in Metropolis]. Clearly hundreds if not thousands of people have died while the gravity machines are going off. There were probably even people who died in Smallville.

When you’re dealing with a threat like this, there will be collateral damage. This is something that hadn’t been depicted in comic book films is what it would be like if these powerful figures did clash, if The Hulk and Thor fought, people would probably die. Particularly in this case where Zod and the Kryptonians really don’t care if people die. I think people died and I’m sure that upsets some people.

We knew that people would be upset by some of the choices we make. We got some grief when we did Batman Begins. Now people think what we did was great but when Batman Begins first came out, people were upset by some of the choices we made.

6/?

>>93062730

One of the conventions we had to get rid of, and it just seemed stupid, is that Lois couldn’t figure out [that Kal and Clark are] the same guy. Especially because she had met him before he was Superman. Clearly she’d be able to figure out his secret.

Initially, when we turned the script in to Warner Bros., they challenged that and I think this was just because it’s the way it had always been done. But one of the things you have to do is question some of the canon. DC Comics, DC Entertainment as they are now, were okay with it. They accepted it more easily than Warner Bros. did initially.

I love the Marvel films and they definitely have a certain tonality and continuity but the way Chris, Zack and I have evolved our take… now, the DC characters are older than the Marvel characters and ironically, the Marvel characters were created in the 60s and originally they were meant to be more realistic, and more relatable. The thing that Stan Lee and [Jack] Kirby and [Steve] Ditko did, all these characters were people that you could identify with, that had human problems.

Now, with the Batman films and the Superman films, the DC films that are being made, seem to exist in a more realistic world than the Marvel films. They’ve flipped. Moving forward, if Zack and I are to do any more films, we’ll probably continue in this manner, it’s just the way we work. And I try to make my dialogue as naturalistic as you can make an alien from another world. This seems to have been successful with Batman, and it’s a higher hurdle to jump over with Superman but I think we’ve been fairly successful in what we did.

7/?

>>93062728
>Sometimes it's nice to see a new idea.
Fanboys hate new things and the general audience hates Superman, period

>>93062724
Oh it's politically and environmentally short-sighted (so as to be a statement on our world), but otherwise it's not a dystopia by any measure.
No one is living in sterile thought-pods, Jor-El is still fucking his beautiful wife, Zod is free to be all soldier-y (against whom we are never told) and everyone lives in a tech utopia with magical dragons.

>>93062662
Have you seen the stuff for the show? It's Romeo and Juliet in space,, not a post apocalpytic hellscape.

If Krypton was so shit why's Clark gotta have the Codex? Remember that? The key to Krypton being reborn? For something that was so flawed it had to go why didn't Jor El let that thing get blown up?

The guy that hates the caste system literally puts the caste system in his kid born out of the caste system. Then he says
>you were a natural birth so you can do whatever you want, but here's what I want you to do
And then, AND THEN, Clark does it! Because FUCK agency and free will.

>>93062697
>I never set out to do a Superman film.
Mission accomplished.

>>93062760
I know fanboys hate change. Hell, Batman the Brave & the Bold did a pretty good job of parodying that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6UDEi8H43M

>>93062772

>Jor-El is still fucking his beautiful wife

That was against the law, actually. It was haram.

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>>93062708
>They are even avoiding most of the 90's characters, because they know that they only appeal to their most crusty neckbearded comic fanbase.

Neckbeards in the 90s hated that shit, and consider it garbage suited only for horny teenage boys.

>>93062760
>general audience hates Superman,
Edgy teens aren't the general audience. My parents and grandparents thought BvS was the dumbest thing ever
>Why are they fighting? They're BFFLs!
The general audience has not read TDKR. They don't give a fuck about "relatibility" or Batfag/Superfag dickfights over who's top dog at DC.

Go look at how many people have watched Supes 75 anniversary on YouTube. It's double that of Batman's.

>>93062772
>Jor-El is still fucking his beautiful wife
Illegally dude. Jesus how did fucking Snyder make a movie that went over your head? I'm not a kinofag but I'm starting to think MoS really was 2deep4u because this shit is flat out spelled out but you still missed it.

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>>93062760
>and the general audience hates Superman, period
General audiences wanted and expected the "Norman Rockwell, big blue boy scout, spit-curl era" Superman he's completely dismissive of as being out of date and irrelevant.

And honestly, this is exactly what the Man of Steel trailers advertise, which combined with the stifling of reviews and pre-selling tickets got them a huge opening weekend.

Then they pulled all this angst and shit on people, word got out, and the box office collapsed on them.

After all the War-shit and terror-shit and generaly environmental Worry going on the the world, people wanted a film to feel good about.
Goyer and Snyder are just out of touch with what people want. Patty is not.

>>93062776
Because it was all that was left of Krypton. There was good as well as bad. He didn't want Clark to FORGET it but he didn't want him to RECREATE it either. Man you guys really aren't that bright.

This was not a complex movie. It wasn't a good movie either.

>>93062854
>Goyer and Snyder are just out of touch with what people want. Patty is not.

>Wonder Woman is about Diana finding out how cruel and dark the world can be

???

>>93062724
It's not just the good guys tho. It's the bad ones, too.

The fact that it's this supposed rigid hierarchy but all the named characters are rogues that don't follow that hierarchy is one of the big problems with its premise.

Jor-el SAYS that there's this huge problem but he's a living, walking talking example that it's actually not the problem he's saying it is.
And beyond that, there's just too many holes in it. Why would they engineer a soldier caste without slavish loyalty? Zod shouldn't be ABLE to stage a coup. Why would a science caste guy be able to take on that soldier in a straight fight? Shouldn't Zod be bigger and stronger or at least have better tactics or indoctrinated training?

This is what happens when you get Byrne rewritten by the mastermind behind Blade Trinity.

>>93062837
non-pod reproduction is considered verboten, nowhere is it stated that sex is illegal.
Seeing as how they even HAVE sex drives and aren't neutered it's clearly not a crime to fuck.

It's amazing how you accuse other people of being "stupid" while jumping to ignorant conclusions at the same time.

>>93062879
>There was good as well as bad.
The "good" is the history and culture and shit. He has the flash drive and the AI for that. The "bad" is the genetic caste system shit. Which is literally all the Codex is good for. That and to act as the macguffin for Zod to fight over.

>>93060666
>The whole point was Clark was suppose to learn how to be a good person from his parents

He does learn that. His parents also teach him that his very existence is a big fucking deal and he has to be careful with the secret, especially when he's a small kid and couldn't possibly understand all the consequences that his actions will have. Is it good that he saved those kids? Sure, but at the same time he also almost exposed himself to the world and had religious nuts like Pete's mom think he was an angel, which is dangerous.

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>>93062758

Now here's Zack Snyder interview about MOS, just for the fun of it.

>What does Superman mean for you, for all of us, coming back today?

SNYDER: You know, I think Superman, for me, I’ve been a big fan of the character and honestly I wasn’t sure about this project before I talked to Chris Nolan about what he and David [Goyer] had come up with. So, I don’t know. I think that I like the fact that Superman’s American, you know? I think that that’s cool. I know that in the past or in recent years, his Americanism, his Americanness has been a liability for him. But I think that there is an amazing amount of naïveté and an amazing amount of, sort of… Superman could not be of any other nationality other than American because he’s so naïve. [Laughs] But at the same time, he has this weird morality that actually makes him ideal superhero material. I don’t know that he couldn’t — you can’t have a Superman that is reasoning.

You can’t have a Superman that is battling cultural morality. You need a Superman that has built in sort of values. I think that him growing up in Kansas and that whole part of him is very… I always remember everyone saying like, “You’re not going to show him growing up in Kansas, are you?” I’m like, “Why make Superman? Why jump the most…” To understand him, you have to understand the why of him. By the way, I’ll say the first scene that Chris pitched me was a scene that was about his childhood. It had nothing to do with like, smashing shit or anything like that, which is cool. But, it was very much a character childhood character moment that made me say, “Okay, that’s different.” It’s a different point of view of Superman that made me go, “Yeah, that grown-up version of that guy is interesting to me.”

8/?

>>93062882
>Jor-el SAYS that there's this huge problem but he's a living, walking talking example that
What? He's one man dude and as esteemed as he was he couldn't convince Krypton to save itself. He couldn't even save anyone but his wife. He was one good man in a sea of fuck ups. He was living proof that Krypton couldn't be saved because as powerful as Jor-El was the system shut him out when he tried to change it.

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>>93062880
>Wonder Woman is about Diana finding out how cruel and dark the world can be
And taking an immediate, active and positive stance against it, which is the entire point of heroism, not drowning in your own skin-crawling. She's not twisted into a murderous psychopath like Balebats, she's not standing around awkwardly confused like Man of Autism.

Cap was in the middle of WW2 with crazy people trying to space-nuke cities, but he's not a sad sack of shit about it.

>>93062816
Hollywood's main audience are males between 18 to 34. They want all the demographics so nostalgia is important, both for brand recognition and because the idea was already tested and there's material available to adapt but the 18-34 male audience is still the most important. They're the kids who grow up with the Burton's movies, the DCAU, tons of Batman merchandise and Superman as a second banana. The best Supes had was Smallville and that was a bizarre mix between Spider-man, X-Men and The OC

>>93062925
>He was one good man in a sea of fuck ups.
We're TOLD about that "sea of fuck ups", not SHOWN. And we're shown a lot of Jor El being badass because I guess it was in Russel Crowe's contract, but that time would've been better spent on literally anything else.

There's almost half an hour on Krypton. That's like 20% of the movie, verging on 25%. For what should have been an unimportant prologue. That was time we could've gotten Clark actually having a life on Earth instead of just being a hobo. But nope, gotta get the epic space battles and dragons in there to show how crappy Krypton is with it's epic space battles and dragons.

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>>93062907
>Is it good that he saved those kids? Sure, *but*
See, you are already a better writer than Goyer.

"I'm proud you saved the town's children Clark, and it was the right thing to do, but you have to realize....".
It's only Goyer and Snyder that make this shit look difficult.

>>93062914

>I know that you can’t talk about the origin of the suit. That’s something that we’re probably going to have to wait until the film comes out for. But, can you talk a little bit about the utility of the suit, what makes it different?

SNYDER: We just had a very sort of — it’s a very difficult suit, trust me.

>I believe it.

SNYDER: I have seen every possible version of that suit, versions with underwear, versions without underwear, but I’ll say that we had versions without the red, without a cape, with a cape, everything you can imagine. Just to look, to see it. It’s funny because the suit, it’s really all about, for me, it’s all about like, sort of the squint test kinda concept. Like, it’s gotta be Superman instantly, but it also can’t… When we tested Henry, we didn’t have a costume, so we put him in the Christopher Reeve costume, right, just because Warner Bros. owns it. So I was like, “Oh, just put him in that. It’s fine. We’ll know whether he can — whether it’ll work, right?” Of course, then Warner Bros. said, “You’re not allowed to use our costume because it’s collectors. It’s worth millions of dollars.” I was like, “It’s okay. Fair enough.” So we made one based on it. So we ended up doing R&D.

9/?

>>93062914
Snyder' speech patterns are harder to follow than his movies, jeez.

>>93062960
Supes got his own series dude. Plenty of people saw and liked it. You are vastly overestimating the amount of manchildren who care about the Bats/Supes rivalry. It's a thing for losers on image boards to fight over.

>>93062975
>>93062983

I actually think he's on the spectrum.

>How did you begin working with Christopher Nolan? When were you brought on board?

SNYDER: Chris called me for lunch, I guess it was… September of last year, yeah. He said, “Hey, do you want to have lunch?” I was like, “Yeah.” He goes, “If I talk about Superman, is that cool?” I was like, “Sure, it’s cool.” It was a great meeting.

>What was the common ground that you and Chris Nolan had found with this? You guys have had up until now very different approaches. His approach is a kind of gritty, realistic, and you’ve been very stylized with your films. So, what made you be able to bond on this material?

SNYDER: I don’t know. Chris is just about story. He’s not really a style — I mean, he has his own style, but he would never presume that style on anyone else because he’s just, he’s like, I’m sure he would just say, “Well, that’s the way I see it.” He probably wouldn’t want you to, if he was hiring you, he wouldn’t say like, “Do it like I do it.” By the way, that’s the last thing he’d want you to do. So I think that yeah, I just kinda was like, “Ah, it’d be cool to do Superman this way because Superman is so” — I guess I said the other day that this is probably the most realistic movie I’ve made, and it’s Superman. That’s funny. I mean, it’s not funny, but it’s ironic. I like irony, right, and irony is hard. It’s the hardest thing. So, I don’t know. That’s like, the only thing ironic about the film is that it’s all ironic.

10/?

>>93060191

Stfu. If you're a fan you know he's due for a comeback from the dead being the inspirational superman we all know and love.

>>93063010
It genuinely helps if he's a bit inspiration Before dying stupidly and senselessly.
Heightens everyone's ability to give a Single Fuck.

>>93062972
You're not shown in Superman's origin in the comics either you idiot. Or the 1970s movie. Jor-El goes "The Council are idiots, we're all going to die". That they're too stupid to listen to their head scientist and save themselves is how writers show Krypton as being too set in its ways to survive.

Jesus this is a waste of time you are literally being a nitpicking bitch about the dumbest shit.

>>93063010
I mean I know they'll have him First Flight out of his grave to a thrumming Zimmer score and you'll orgasm and clap like a harbor seal, but it would really help if the other 2 and a half hours aren't idiotic dreck.

>>93063044
>Or the 1970s movie
So you haven't seen it?

>>93063033
Like when he saved people from the oil rig? Or caught the dude falling from the helicopter?

>>93063033
>if he's a bit inspiration
Like doing what? BvS was awful for reasons entirely unrelated to Cavill not getting cats out of trees.

Too Bad that didn't happen though considering the recent video where he stops his car to help a turtle get across the road

>>93063005

More Zack autism.

SNYDER: "The first draft actually had more even on Krypton. The destruction of Krypton was crazy and we linearised that because it was like the birth and then all of these flashbacks within flashbacks and the timing of Zod’s approach. There was a bigger battle that I had designed on the landing platform and we shot some of it, but for budgetary reasons it got smaller and smaller and then it got to the point where I was just like, ‘Let’s just have the battle inside.’

"Jor-El has this robot called Kelex [voiced by Carla Gugino] and there is this scene where Kelex dons a robotic body and he battles it out with Zod on the landing platform. We had it so Zod had this pack of genetically-engineered war dogs that ran ahead, and Jor-El and Kelex were fighting the war dogs and finally Kelex takes these detonation explosives out of his robotic body and arms them, turning to Jor-El and saying 'Get the kid off the planet!', basically. Kelex says, 'I’m gonna try and hold them off', and then runs and dives and blows himself up. That makes Zod really mad, and then he lands and Zod goes in and the two fight."

11/?

>>93063091
Yeah, he's a regular Fireman or EMT sorta guy.
Cept Firemen are in actual danger, putting their lives at risk, so by default are 100% more inspiring.
But honestly, it's a matter of tone and attitude and spirit. The super-glumness is just wearying.

Also, I think MoS needed a big threat that wasn't the direct result of Superman fiddling around with shit. But not Luthor, God no.

>>93063044
>You're not shown in Superman's origin in the comics either you idiot.
Then how do I know that Snyder got his ideas for Krypton specifically from the Byrne run?

And if none of the source material is going into Krypton then why was a full fifth of the movie spent there?

>>93063126

On who came up with killing Zod and why

David S. Goyer: "So yes, originally Zod got sucked into The Phantom Zone with the others but I just felt it was unsatisfying and so did Zack. So we started talking to some of the people at DC Comics and asked, ‘Do you think there is ever a way that Superman would kill someone?’ And at first they said, ‘No way.’ ‘But what if he didn’t have a choice…?’ Originally Chris didn’t even want to let us try to write it but Zack and I said, ‘We think we can figure out a way that you’ll buy it.’ So I came up with this idea of the heat vision and these people about to die and I wrote the scene and gave it to Chris… and he said, ‘Okay, you convinced me.’ I’ve seen the film about four times now and everyone always gasps when it happens – they don’t see it coming – and I think it makes some people feel uncomfortable, whereas other people say ‘Right on!’ but that was the point. Hopefully what we have done with the end of this film is we’ve got the the mainstream audience, not the geek audience, to question it all. Hopefully we’ve redefined Superman."

Snyder: "I wanted to create a situation where Superman has gotta do what he’s gotta do or he is going to see these people get chopped in half. And I think Zod knows that. It’s almost like suicide in a way, it’s like death by cop. If Kal has the ability to kill him then that’s a noble way for him to die. It’s echoes the ‘A good death is its own reward’ concept in a movie, and if there were more adventures for Superman in the future, you now don’t know 100% what he’s gonna do. When you really put the concept that he won’t kill in stone and you really erase it as an option in the viewer’s mind, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a code.

12/?

>>93063126
It's like he barely stopped himself from making a Russell Crowe movie. Which honestly would have been alright with me, given the actual result.

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>>93063131
>Cept Firemen are in actual danger, putting their lives at risk, so by default are 100% more inspiring.
This is literally a Lex Luthor arguement. He uses this exact arguement. Holy Kek.

>>93063156

Scenes cut.

Goyer: "Amazingly, not that much was cut from the original script. We refined things but the film is 75 per cent what was the first draft. There weren’t any characters that were different or things like that.

"There was a tiny scene when Ma and Pa Kent – even though I hate referring to them as that; they’re Jonathan and Martha – because I just think that Ma and Pa Kent is so anachronistic. One of the things we’re trying to do with Superman is just get him out of that of that Norman Rockwell Big Blue Boy Scout feel.

"Anyway, there is a tiny scene where they take a six-month-old Kal to the doctor because he’s behaving in a weird way, essentially because his super senses are starting to kick in. They do this test with newborns where they check their hearing by emitting tones into their ear canals. So the doctor starts increasing the amplitude of the tones and then baby Kal screams and blows out all of the windows of the doctor’s office; the windshields; the cars outside. It was a funny scene but we decided not to keep it in. Originally you cut from that pod landing to this scene to the fishing trawler and we just felt it was a more dramatic way to go if we went straight to the fishing trawler. And also coming off of the destruction of Kyrpton, it was a little early for any 'Ha ha ha' humour."

13/?

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>>93062613
>Beware the Batman was a failure
damn shame