Who was in the wrong here?

The writers

>>93058856
/thread

Steven

>>93058842
The Writers
If the writers hadn't made Jasper a cardboard cut out of an abuser, and turned Lapis into a dindu Lapis would be at fault.

Fault? I thought the point was that their whole dynamic was fucked up and unhealthy from every angle? Jasper was in the middle of doing bad shit from Lapis' perspective and she stopped her. Lapis then used the fact that Jasper was an aggressor towards her and Steven as an excuse to torment her. The pair of them found some sort of fucked up solace in this dynamic. One eventually realized how fucked it was and decided they were done and the other didn't. Am I missing something?

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>>93059774
>Implying Lapis "tormented" her by stopping her from destroying an entire planet after being forced to fuse with her
How exactly did Lapis do anything wrong?

Why doesn't Steven just rape Jasper?

>>93059871
I didn't say she necessarily did anything wrong? I'm personally of the opinion that everything she did was justified. Not healthy or even smart, but justified. By Lapis' own admission she did terrible (or what Lapis percieved to be terrible) shit to Jasper why they were fused, used her to take out her aggression. What that shit was, I'm not really sure... Fusion is weird.

>>93058842
stay in your general faggot.

>>93059871
Both characters are very fucked up. But when it comes to Malachite, it was Lapis's doing and it's very fucking obvious if you just pay attention to the show.

>>93060125
Of course, Lapis was the one who kept Malachite fused, she was fucking right to do it and literally no other choice if she wanted to stop Jasper. Lapis literally did nothing wrong (unless you consider homeworld to be in the right, which they probably are all things considered).

>>93060564
(Oh, you're one of those guys)

She wasn't right to force fuse Jasper. She didn't *want* to stop Jasper or whatever self-sacrificing excuse people are coming up with just because Lapis wanted Steven to fuck off in Chille Tid. She just wanted someone to take her anger out on after being stuck in the mirror and forced to come back to earth to be Peridot's informant. jasper, thinking they had a mutual interest in taking down the CGs due to what Lapis told her, unknowingly handed herself over as a punching bag for that anger. Nobody deserves that.
After seeing what Lapis is capable of doing, especially with the ocean right next to her, force fusing was completely unnecessary. Jasper was just weakened and defeated by Garnet, all of the CGs (Alexandrite or any of the other fusions) were right there. They could've just poofed and bubbled Jasper right then and there. But instead we have a forced fusion that not only messed up Jasper mentally, but also created an even more unstable foe that endangered the CGs.

>>93058842
Lapis is a fucking moron and felt the only """logical""" option was to trap and torture herself and jasper even though she was right next to the ocean and could've dealt with her ease

>>93060564
Nonsense. There was no need for the fusion at all, she could easily stopped Jasper. The CG's and the ocean were right next to here.
She just tried to justify her fucked up behaviour and taking her anger out on another gem by trapping her in a hellfusion.

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>>93060918
Even if she wanted to torture jasper, she could've easily done it unfused and not end up dishing it out on herself either. She's just a nimrod of the highest caliber.

>>93058842
>Jasper just wanted to avenge Pink Diamond and fusioncum inside Lapis
>gets corrupted and fucked over by status quo

just

>>93059999
Checked.

All hail the quads!

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>>93059901

Because they are playing Titanic, and he likes Lapis.

>>93060979
Jasper literally 100% deserved it.
Lapis was completely justified in being angry at Jasper for forcing her to come back to Earth
(Lapis would also be completely justified in hating the crystal gems but the writers were too shit to go that route)

Jasper ended up being poofed anyway so even if they could have done it sooner it literally didn't matter because she only hurt herself and Jasper. Jasper being the fucking villain.

Not to mention it ended up better overall because Jasper got corrupted and is now hopefully perma-gone instead of just bubbled. (Unless the writers continue to be shit and give her a memebarn redemption arc).

People are acting on the assumption that Lapis could have beaten Jasper.

But let's be completely honest. There was no reason for Lapis to care about Steven and the CGs anyway after they locked her in the mirror and left her there for 100s of years, they should have become Malachite and shattered them all and ended this horrid series.

>>93058842
Me.
I shouldn't have watched that piece of shit show from the beginning.

>>93060806
Her being unstable didn't endanger the Crystal Gems, all it did was make Jasper do stupid shit like climb on a boat or try to fuse with a corrupted gem. Lapis' 300% justified mental torture of Jasper ended with Jasper basically offing herself (which is a good thing).

Lapis literally did nothing wrong.

In the Malachite situation? Lapis. She raped Jasper and the show makes it abundantly clear that she didn't do it out of necessity. She was just angry and wanted to be the aggressor instead of the victim for once.
In the episode? Jasper. Lapis was totally justified in punching Jasper into the stratosphere, considering the fact that she was about to shatter a child.

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In Jailbreak, Jasper wanted a quick power boost in order to defeat the Crystal Gems (who she sees as evil for doing wrong against her and shattering Pink Diamond) because she was too weak and beat up to take them on herself at that point, and she pushily tried to convince Lapis to help her by reminding Lapis of the wrong that she believed the CGs did against her, probably based on what Lapis told her while she was being interrogated. Jasper thought that the CGs were a mutual enemy and wanted to get back at them, her goal was not to hurt Lapis or be in a relationship with her or dominate her or steal anything other than information from her, especially not in the fusion she was asking for, so while she disrespected Lapis she didn't "abuse" her and she was not a major threat against Steven or the CGs in that moment.

Lapis got triggered by Jasper pushing her around and trying to get her to fuse with her because she had just escaped her 5000 year long imprisonment in the mirror, which left her angry and traumatized and desiring any source of freedom or control in her life. Lapis agreed to fuse with Jasper because she knew that she would be able to overpower Jasper in the fusion and trapping Jasper would
1) give her the oppurtunity to gain the control and freedom of choice she wanted so bad after having both stripped away from her for so long
2) let her be the warden instead of the prisoner for once
3) allow her to vent her frustrations out on jasper and indirectly get revenge on homeworld by punishing jasper like homeworld did to her, even though jasper did not contribute to any of lapis' past abuse or trauma and only broke the camels back by tossing lapis into a jail cell for a few hours.

(1/3)

>>93058842
Lapis is such an unlikable cunt. She'd be the worst gem if Ruby and Sapphire didn't exist.

>>93062242
>"Raped"
>Still thinking fusion is a metaphor for sex or love or a relationship while Fluorite exist
>Thinking Lapis was an aggressor when Jasper literally grabbed her to start the fusion
>Implying torturing the series' villain is anything but justified

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>>93062262
To Lapis, Malachite was about gaining control by seizing it from somebody else, not about (at least mainly) protecting Steven, because if that's all she wanted to she could have easily launched Jasper out of the picture during Jailbreak to get Jasper away from Steven like she did in Alone at Sea, since she was right next to the ocean in both cases and she was not under threat of Jasper attacking her if she said no. As she states in AAS, she liked being fused as Malachite and forcing Jasper to stay fused with her because taking everything out on Jasper felt good. She only realized it was wrong after receiving support and finding peace + learning about healthy relationships with Steven and Peridot.

To Jasper, Malachite was initially just supposed to be a quick power boost, but it turned into a prison where she was forced into submission and stripped of all autonomy, and then to something she became insecure of and felt incomplete and weak without.

She had tried to escape Malachite up until SWI (as shown in Jailbreak and Chills Tid), where Alexandrite came into the picture, and was a bit vague on whether or not Malachite has started to become her own person at that point because of the deal with how she treated the Watermelon Stevens. Lapis finally let go of the chains that were forcing Malachite to stay fused together and under the ocean, and Jasper tells Lapis that it was wrong for both of them to hold Malachite back and that they should work together to "have some fun" by beating Alexandrite. Once they start kicking Alexandrite's ass, Jasper starts to enjoy fusion and decides that it's good because of how strong it makes her.

(2/3)

>>93062262
>Not a major threat to Steven or the CGs
>Literally came there to destroy them and blow up the planet with the cluster
The only think Lapis could have done better would have been shattering Peridot and Jasper for having the gall to invade Earth and forcing her to help.

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>Jasper and Lapis start off hating eachother and fuse out of necessity
>Malachite actually becomes strong as fuck and wants to stay that way

>that thread earlier about how you need to date bitches to improve

>lapis was the bitch jasper needed
>jasper was the bitch lapis needed

>the show presents it as a bad thing
>it's an anti bitch psyop

>>93062376
Lapis literally needed nothing but to be left alone.

>>93062376
>that thread earlier about how you need to date bitches to improve

wat

>>93058842
Jasper's fucking evil. So Jasper.

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>>93062262
>>93062332
By the time AAS happens, Jasper had been beaten by two fusions, forced to stay in a fusion for several months straight, and she was still hung up over losing the power that Malachite gave her near the end. She was going through a mix of stockholm syndrome, withdrawals, and a lack of self worth (which she bases entirely on her physical strength and ability to succeed).

Her speech to Lapis about realizing she was wrong about fusion and having changed wasn't just her lying to manipulate Lapis into fusing with her again. It is clear that Malachite/fusion in general had started to mean more to her at that point than just beating the CGs because she had pushed Steven out of the way just to get to Lapis and she was setting her pride and dignity aside to beg on her knees. Just like in Jailbreak, she did not try to threaten or force Lapis into fusing with her, and didn't try to hurt Lapis after Lapis rejected her (more proof that she never had intentions of hurting Lapis) but, it is later revealed in Earthlings, when Jasper is at her most vulnerable emotionally and lowest in terms of her confidence and selfworth, that she was hurt by Lapis' rejection and she expresses sadness over Lapis amd the corruoted jasper not wanting to stay fused with her, driving it home that her views on fusion were not the same as they first were in Jailbreak and that they had been warped partially by her time spent in the Malachite.

(3/3) (tl;dr is next)

>>93062414
It's a wild ride

>>93042963

>>93060918
nah, she was being an emotional bitch after being stuck in a mirror and then being stuck in another place.

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>>93062262
>>93062332
>>93062423
Tl;DR: Lapis fusing with Jasper was not necessary in order to save herself or Steven and she did not do it to benefit anyone but herself, and while Jasper initially only wanted to use Lapis and Malachite to kill the CGs, she was not strong enough to take the CGs on herself and never had any desire to hurt Lapis, which makes her more of a victim to Lapis' abuse since Lapis enjoyed forcing Jasper to stay fused with her and inflicting punishment onto her in Malachite. It even ended up damaging Jasper permanently and drove her to fuse with a corrupted gem and not want to be saved from becoming corrupted. Lapis wasn't in the right until after realizing what she did to Jasper as Malachite was wrong and rejected Jasper's pleas to fuse with her again in AAS instead of giving into her own selfish and self destructive desires like she did when she made the opposite decision in Jailbreak.

I would say they were both in the wrong just because of how pushy Jasper was with Lapis and how Lapis was acting on thousands of years of worth of trauma, but Lapis is still more in the wrong.

>>93062423
Like the blue midget fairy gem said
"Fusions always end up becoming sentimental"
Fusion just had an effect on Jasper and fucked up her head.
Kind of like that "I did something wrong and I liked it" idea

>>93062483
This "Jasper is a victim" is a shit meme.

>"I'm going to destroy the earth and you're going to help me."
>"No you're not I'm going to torture you at the bottom of the ocean like you deserve because you're a villain with no redeeming qualities"

And queue fucking retards who think that somehow torturing bad guys and keeping them from hurting people isn't okay.

they're both shit

>>93062488
it might be due to the fact that you're deeply connected to someone at a very high level while also evolving into something different than your original perspective.

it's not that they get sentimental. It's that they have literally placed themselves in another's shoes and have a changing experience.

>>93062530
lapis could have just poofed her or maybe even crushed her gem to stop her but she obviously wasn't even thinking about stopping her. She got her feefees hurt and was being emotional and thus poured all that shit on jasper for what seemed at least a month.

I didn't really even think twice about what Lapis did at the time really. I never saw Jasper as that likeable or interesting as a character so when it happened I was just like 'yeah. fuck her'. I'm not really sure where all the Jasper love comes from either, i still don't feel all that bad for her. She was a massive dick, just following orders sure, but still a dick. IDK maybe I missed the part where she became cool.

Would anything actually be wrong with shattering Jasper? She is a threat to Earth who'd go so far as fusing with a corrupted gem in an attempt to destroy the CGs.
We have no idea if she can get uncorrupted or what will happen if she does, or even what corrupted Jasper is doing. Why not just fucking find the abomination and shatter it before it has the chance to hurt anyone or anything?

>>93062564
The blue fairy midget said straight up that it makes them sentimental, it's not a theory.

>Good guy takes out their anger on a bad guy
Is this wrong somehow?

Are we pretending being trapped for 100s of years just feefees? Being forced to come back to earth? Being thrown in a cell?

Fuck Jasper, and Fuck Lapis for not destroying the crystal gems before she dragged them both down there.

>>93062570
The only mildly sympathetic thing Jasper did in the series was talk about how the earth destroyed gems, like making a respected warrior like rose turn against her diamond, and how from the moment she came out the rock she had to fight to escape earth and that Rose killed pink diamond. It was the first hint we got that maybe Rose isn't such a good person, but the new episodes destroyed that so Rose is 'perfect' again did no wrong.

>>93062616
In this case, yeah it's pretty wrong. It's like torturing animals because of your past trauma.

>>93062573
It can be wrong on a moral standpoint due to the gem not seeming to lose consciousness when shattered and still wanting to form a shape. Seems to turn them into something simple minded as the corrupted gems.

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>>93062530
Jasper is fighting against wrongdoings done to her, she's a victim in the sense that she was born to fight a losing war that she didn't ask for and believes that Rose shattered Pink Diamond and stole Earth from her because that is what the diamonds have lied to her since birth. She's not anymore evil than Lapis, who was also a morally grey character trying to get revenge. If you think Jasper is evil or deserves to be tortured in such an extreme way for trying to get revenge on "Rose" for murdering someone she loved but Lapis isn't for trying to get revenge against homeworld for her own personal reasons then you are intentionally being retarded and ignoring that no character in the show is evil and that they're fucked up and have their own reasons for doing the shitty things they do

>>93058842
clearly lapis
she was the overpowered one
she was the one in control

>>93058842

Both
Orange = worse gem
Blue = stupid cunt

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>>93063304
>Blue = stupid cunt

>>93063304
*blue = worst character on the show
*orange = writer's punching bag

>>93062693
It's not that complicated, if you want to destroy the Earth and the people on it you're evil, there is no moral grayness to genocide. Jasper deserved worse than what she got. I'd say "cool motive still murder" but that's a shit fucking motive to begin with.

>>93062691
Not an animal, someone who attempted to destroy a planet, I said "a bad guy" not "a guy"

Also shattering gems doesn't mean they don't lose consciousness, those were made from experiments those weren't just shattered gems.

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>>93063322
Could you make her smile again? Could you protect that smile?

>>93062262
>>93062332
>>93062423
>>93062483
This is all spot on desu. The creator of the fucking show has said that they were both bad for each other and that neither were innocent. Lapis is a cunt who basically fusion raped Jasper for no reason so she's the one who was worse IMO and I think Jasper got fucked over pretty hard by the writers considering everything else she went through and how she pretty much just came to Earth because she wanted to avenge her dead mom goddess, but I still think you're supposed to be able to form your own opinions on it.

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>>93058842

Both, for diferent reasons, Lapis didn't needed to fuse and trap her on the bottom of the ocean to get out of that situation, she did it becouse she fucking hated her and everyone that kept imprisoning her, and Jasper wanted to use her to kill the protagonist and get out before the planet explodes, leaving billions to die.

>something something morally grey!

I don't care.

>We are but insects in the face of these enlighted aliens, we are inconsequential and
deserve to die!

I really don't care.

>>93058842
lapis
jasper didnt give enthusiastic conscent

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>>93063461
If the creator of the show wanted neither to be innocent then they shouldn't have made Lapis completely innocent.

>Fusion raped for no reason
Jasper was 100% evil and came to blow up the earth and put Lapis in a cage. Stop being fucking retarded just because Jasper is your shit tier waifu.

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>>93058842
Will the malachite discourse ever end

>>93063494
Jasper needed to sign the proper consent forms, and also not decide later to take that consent back. Lapis is an evil rapist UwU and Jasper was completely right in wanting to destroy the earth because most humans are just evil raysist who deserve to die.

JASPER/LAPIS IS SUCH A CUTE SHIP

JASPER REDEMPTION ARC WHEN?

>>93063372
Jasper's main motive was to avenge Pink Diamond by killing Rose, who she believed killed Pink Diamond, not to blow up the planet. You must be confusing her with Yellow Diamond, who was the one who created the cluster to blow up the planet.

You are saying that Jasper is evil for trying to get revenge on people (the cgs) she sees as evil for taking Earth from her, since she used to love and care about Earth as a home she was born from and is still angry about it being stolen from her, and murdering someone she loved... But at the same time you are saying Lapis did nothing wrong, even though she was doing the exact same thing Jasper was by attacking people (the cgs) while she thought they were evil and then fusion raping Jasper to get revenge on the Homeworld gems who trapped and used her in a mirror, even though Jasper wasn't the one who did that shit to her.

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>>93063519
Good lord you're dumb

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>>93063519

>Its okay to rape if they're evil

Are you the anon that kept pushing the "Batman should just rape the joker" meme?

>>93063562
She was dispatched on a mission to oversee the cluster.

Jasper never said she loved the Earth
Lapis was left in that mirror knowingly by the Crystal Gems, who even attempted to stop Steven from freeing her.

>Fusion
>Rape
Pick one

The fusion sex/love metaphor died with Fluorite

Jasper was a villain, Jasper put Lapis in a cage. I don't give a shit about Pink Diamond, she wasn't a good guy, she was a conqueror too.

Jasper deserved it, and worse.

>>93063519
They didn't make Lapis innocent, they made her into a victim of past abuse who drew out the cycle of abuse by venting all her shit onto someone unrelated by raping them. The stupid conclusion you keep drawing up about Lapis being a weak little baby who didn't do anything wrong is contradicted by everything that happens between Jasper and Lapis' characters and what Lapis admits she did wrong in the show, not to mention outside comments front the creators about their intentions when writing about Malachite.

>>93063616
No, but Batman should kill the Joker, it is completely immoral to let Joker live knowing he will kill more people.

But would you really care if some guy raped and killed Hitler during WW2? The rape is unnecessary but not evil. As long as someone who is evil is hurt and killed everything is well.

>>93063671
Lapis admit she did wrong because the creators are terrible writers who instead of actually making Lapis do something wrong, like... letting Jasper live or destroy stuff or people.
They instead wrote a sequence of events in which Lapis did nothing wrong and was sorry for it for some inexplicable reason.

The writers are shit, and if they wanted to make Lapis a bad guy/anti-hero they did a shit job at it because Lapis did nothing wrong.

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>>93063645
One of the storyboarders whose been working on this show since the beginning liked this post calling lapist the rapist
Just saying

>>93063749
The creators of this show are moronic. That's not new.

>>93063679

Rape is still an evil act dude, it ends up being an evil person fucking another evil person, that's why i mentioned the batman rape joke, becouse heoric raping is fucking nonsense, that's probably why the guy pushing it thinks is funny.

>>93063774
Ya okay bud

And you're whole post about how Jasper deserved it and lapis dindu nuffin is not moronic? Please

>>93063796
>you're
Meant your

>>93063794
Are you saying that someone would be evil for raping a genocidal maniac? Because I disagree completely. If someone caused someone who is so obvious and plainly massively evil that kind of suffering and trauma, I'd give them a parade in the streets.

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>>93063705
This is the funniest thing ive read all day

Okay here's an idea guys in this story Guy1 goes out for icecream, and it turns out by doing this he prevented his homicidal neighbor Guy2 from poisoning the icecream cone and gets Guy2 sent to prison but then he cries for 20 minutes and apologizes about it.

Now heres a tumblr post about why Guy1 is a kidnapper and thief, aren't I brilliant writer who successfully wrote a story in which both Guy1 and Guy2 are bad guys?

>>93063645
>"jasper came back to Earth to face her demons"
Jasper came to Earth solely to get back at the CGs and Rose, she was not dying to blow up the Earth and kill all humans, it was clear from the start that she didn't care about the mission unless Rose was involved and as the show went on it became clear that she started caring less and less about YD or returning to homeworld and just wanted to fulfill her personal vendetta against Rose. No, she probably did not care if the Earth got blown up, but neither did Lapis, it was neither of their goals to blow up the planet.

But since they both don't care about earth getting blown up, that should make BOTH of them evil to you thanks to your retard logic, right? do you think all homeworld gems deserve to be fusion raped and shattered because they don't give a shit about Earth? Does Peridot deserved to be fusion raped and shattered because she was leading the cluster mission and used Lapis as an informant?

This is SU in the nut shell

Faggot boys with 3 shit supervisor
Big ass Gay Nigger
Slim lesbian dude
and
Big Fat NEED good for nothing

Every in this shit cartoon is wrong.

WRONG !!
Understand?

>>93063519
Fuck off back to your autistic MonStar threads.

>>93063965
>she probably did not care if the Earth got blown up
That was literally why she was sent to Earth, stop being a disingenuous cunt.

>Lapis, it was neither of their goals to blow up the planet
Lapis had no voluntary part in this.

>Do you think all homeworld gems deserve to be fusion raped and shattered because they don't give a shit about Earth?
Mostly, but Peridot stopped the cluster and saved the Earth, but I definitely support it happening to YD and her servants and probably most of the Homeworld.

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>>93063848

>Are you saying that someone would be evil for raping a genocidal maniac?

Yes, its just overkill, it doesn't matter if the guy deserves it or not, its an unruly act

>But none of that matters if the person really deserves it

That's just the ISIS thought process, anon, justice demands we look pass our own bias and look at the what happened without making exceptions becouse of who it happen to

>>93064195
What?

>>93064195
You're right but your English is shit. You hear me SHIT.

Mucho es bado mr.burritoman

>>93064226
If who it happened to doesn't matter should we start punishing Soldier who kill terrorist? People who kill in self-defense? People who rape genocidal maniacs? People who imprison criminals?

It is not in anyway wrong to hurt/rape/kill/torture/harass/Capture/molest/Imprison/ a homicidal maniac.

>>93062149
Jasper is a good girl and dindu nuffin, basically
>>93062293
Jasper isn't the villain, she's Vegeta.

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>>93064222
You're the one being a fucking retard

Lapis, Jasper, and Peridot were all sent to Earth on the cluster mission. Peridot was the only one who gave a shit about taking care of the cluster and obeying Yellow Diamond commands of blowing up the Earth, Jasper and Lapis didn't give a shit. Jasper just wanted to come to Earth to beat up Rose for being a murderous bitch and Lapis was dragged along by Peridot and Jasper but they were only using her for information on the CGs, not torturing her. But you are saying out of these three, that Jasper is the only one who deserves to be fusion rapes and shattered, even though she cared no less for Earth than Peridot and Lapis and cared no more about Earth getting blown up than Peridot or Lapis. That motivation belongs to Yellow Diamond alone.

Your logic is
>the blue girl is in the right and dindu nuffin for seeking revenge against people who did bad things to her and misdirecting that revenge onto an unrelated person, torturing people by fusion raping them for triggering her, not giving a shit if earth blows up or not, and attacking the CGS because she thinks they're evil
>but the orange girl is an evil monster who deserves to be fusion raped and shattered for seeking revenge against people who did bad things to her, asking for consent to fuse, not giving a shit if earth blows up or not, and attacking the CGs because she thinks they're evil

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>>93064278

>This dumbass argument

I know you know what you wrote is retarded and wrong, but i'll explain it anyway

What happen?

>Soldier kill terrorist
>Person killed in self-defense
>A person raped a genocidal maniac

Who did it happened to?

>A inbreed redneck to a random muslim terrorist fuck
>Without bias: Okay.
>With bias: Okay, but i don't like the redneck, so 40 years in jail for him

>Black man killed white man in self-defence
>Without bias: Okay.
>With bias: A kill is a kill when dealing with niggers, 500 years jail

>Person raped genocidal maniac
>Without bias: Well, can't say he didn't deserve it, but the law is the law
>With bias: Give this man a medal!

So yeah, your argument is trash and so are you.

>>93064413
>Jasper is unrelated
Jasper is a loyal homeworld gem
Jasper put Lapis in a cage
Jasper was going to carry out her mission
Jasper did not help stop the cluster like Peridot
Jasper was never wronged by the CGs
Jasper tried to destroy the CGS

Lapis ran from the CGs and tried to get home while they tried to stop her from escaping what had been her prison for 100s are years
Lapis didn't try to destroy the Earth
Lapis did not voluntarily go on a mission to destroy the planet
Lapis tortured Jasper who completely deserved and kept her at the bottom of the ocean where she wasn't a threat to anyone
Lapis did not attempt to make an army of corrupted gems to again attack the CGs
Lapis was at worst a passive actor in this entire conflict if not the hero for her role is subduing and punishing Jasper

>>93064484
>A inbreed redneck to a random muslim terrorist fuck
>Without bias: The Redneck killed some, put him in jail
>With bias: It was a terrorist so it's okay

>Black man killed white man in self-defence
>Without bias: This Black man killed a guy
>With bias: The white guy was the initial aggressor and thus his life was forfeit

>Person raped genocidal maniac
>Without bias: Well, can't say he didn't deserve it, but the law is the law
>With bias: Give this man a medal!

So your argument is trash and so are you.

>>93064484
>>93064563

You see because the bias isn't inherently bad, it's about who the bias is towards, and I am biased to those who initiate unjust conflict on innocent parties, and we all should be.

We need to focus our bias on those parties that are legitimately deserving of a having a negative bias against them.

Such as homicidal aliens sent to destroy our planet.

>>93064525
>Jasper is a loyal homeworld gem
Lapis and Peridot were too
>Jasper put Lapis in a cage
because Lapis lied to Jasper about people who she sees as evil
>Jasper was going to carry out her mission
Jasper gave 0 shits about the cluster or blowing uo earth, just like Lapis, and told Peridot to "forget about the mission" so that they could bring Rose to justice for being evil
>Jasper did not help stop the cluster like Peridot
neither did Lapis
>Jasper was never wronged by the CGs
they murdered pink diamond and they stole her home planet, and she was set on getting revenge on them and only them for doing so, not on anybody unrelated
>Jasper tried to destroy the CGS
because she thinks they are evil, like Lapis did

>Lapis ran from the CGs and tried to get home while they tried to stop her from escaping what had been her prison for 100syears
because she believes they are evil and was a loyal homeworld gem like Jasper
>Lapis didn't try to destroy the Earth
neither did Jasper
>Lapis did not voluntarily go on a mission to destroy the planet
Jasper only went on Peridot's Earth mission in order to get revenge on Rose and the CGs, not because she cared about the cluster or planet exploding
>Lapis tortured Jasper who completely deserved and kept her at the bottom of the ocean where she wasn't a threat to anyone
Lapis inflicted months of torture onto Jasper because she wanted revenge against people who Jasper was unrelayed to, meaning she tortured someone for unjustified selfish reasons which is an evil act
>Lapis did not attempt to make an army of corrupted gems to again attack the CGs
but Jasper did, in an attempt to get revenge on the CGs because she thinks they are evil
>Lapis was at worst a passive actor in this entire conflict if not the hero for her role is subduing and punishing Jasper
Lapis was a coward who ran away from fighting the CGs and took out all of her hatred for them and Homeworld onto someone unrelated to the suffering they put her through

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>>93064598

Ugh, just stop, you're not retarded, you're just playing with me, judges are paid to be impartial and deliver jugment, impartial literally means without bias, fair and just, and no judge was accused of being too impartial, i would tell you to shove your shitposting up your ass but it clear you never cared in the first place, bye.

>>93062149
nigger did you even bother reading the blather you just spat out before pressing post

>>93060564
Bullshit, she could have easily unfused with Jasper once they were at the bottom of the sea, and then poof, bubble or even shatter Jasper.

Though honestly I suspect she used that fact to her advantage to make it so Jasper instead fought with Lapis to regain control, and not to end the fusion.

>>93062293
Quartzes are grabby. Look at how much Amethysts like to grab people, including the CG Amethyst.

>>93059412
This

>>93060806

>She wasn't right to force fuse Jasper.

You got it ass backwards. Jasper force fused her. Lapis then fought back and trapped her. Jasper is 100% in the wrong and Lapis was fully justified in turning the tables on her.

>>93065288
Jasper never forced Lapis to fuse with her
She attempted to convince Lapis to fuse with her both in Jailbreak and Alone at Sea
She never used threats to get her to fuse
Even if she wanted to force Lapis to fuse or hurt her if she said no she would have a haed time doing so since Lapis is stronger than her anyways and can punt her across to ocean with ease just like she did in Alone at Sea
Deciding to fuse with Jasper just to trick her and then dominate her when Jasper was simply in need of help in defeating what she thought was a mutual enemy was unnecessary on all accounts and entirely Lapis' decision

>>93059412
>>93065180
But it's not what happened at all.

Jasper wasn't showed as a cardborard but actually having some dimenssions.

And Lapis was never presented as fully innocent.

>>93062659
Rose and her questionable morals have been discussed since way, way before we knew about her shattering PD, in what sense is she considered perfect?

>>93058842
Rapis Shitzuli

>>93063461

>Lapis is a cunt who basically fusion raped Jasper for no reason

Jasper grabbed her and forced her to fuse. She was the rapist. That Lapis managed to imprison her within the fusion serves her fucking right. Fuck Jasper and fuck you.

>>93065334
>Jasper never forced Lapis to fuse with her

Fucking bullshit. She snatched Lapis as she tried to run away and then coerced her - "Cmon, just say yes!'. What part of defeating your aggressor is unnecessary? She was clearly over powered by Jasper, but managed to turn the tables on her by imprisoning her within the fusion.

Jasper tried to bully her way into getting what she wanted and got her dumbass stuck in the ocean.

>>93066047
She consented, but used that moment as a ball and chain.

It's like an analogy of a girl imposing her life on guy so that he can't move on. Using black mail, or pregnancy, or something.
It's like a soap opera where the girlfriend steals someone else's baby just to hold a guy down, making him think it's his.

>>93059871
Lapis was extraordinarily more powerful than Jasper. Remember that Lapis was strong enough to control the entire worlds oceans when she was cracked and broken. The idea that she could have not bitch-slapped Jasper to the moon, especially since they were right next to the shoreline, is hilarious; it's an intentional subversion. Jasper is enormous and physically powerful, loud and brash; but Lapis holds all the actual power in the "relationship", both emotional and physical.

Lapis willingly entered the fusion with a gem who was already exhausted and almost defeated just so that she could torment her beneath the ocean for months and months. They are both terrible, terrible people.

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>>93066128
*secretly saved his condoms and froze his sperm so she could impregnate herself whenever.

The writers

>>93066179
No, because tormenting her at the bottom of the ocean wasn't wrong.

We've been over this. Lurk more.

>>93065028
That's racist

>>93067683
>That's racist
If you don't like quartzes being grabby, you're racist.
that's their culture, shit bag.

>>93064811
Our justice system is inherently biased against people who commit crime and treats them differently than people who haven't.

Would it be okay to lock someone who hasn't committed a crime in a cell for most of their life? No.

Is it okay to lock someone who has committed a crime in a cage for most of their life? Yes.

We bias ourselves based on actions. This is good.

>>93066128
>It's like an analogy of a girl imposing her life on guy so that he can't move on.

Uh? Wrong completely wrong. An actually accurate apology is if some killer when breaking into someone's house and a friend of the family try to stop him under the guise of seduction to lure him away, distract him, so he can be taken down. It's legitimate defence.

Jasper came to attack the crystal Gems, Lapis ceased an opportunity to save them.

>>93066179
Lapis is a glass canon. she can easily be poofed. the moment she led her grip go, Jasper could have poofed her out.

>>93067716
that is not how bias work.

>>93058842
Jasper initiated the aggression and then fell for a clever trap and got stuck on the bottom of the ocean.

Lapis, instead of unfusing and using her massive power against lone Jasper at the ocean floor to poof her, or even shatter her since Lapis is unaware of the non-lethal option the CGs have set up, no Lapis gave in to her rage to keep Jasper down there and torture Jasper and herself for months with the intention of making it an eternity. What started as self defense and defense of others with good intentions got taken way, way too far.

Both were in the wrong. And in the end Lapis is responsible for losing herself to becoming a more cooperative Malachite and then letting Jasper go to continue to harass who she intended to protect just because she wanted to keep Jasper around as her torture victim. She screwed up.

The difference is Lapis did stop, admit it was wrong, and doesn't want to do it again. Jasper wants to beat up people for being different and thinks it's funny to push cripples down stairs.

>>93067760
>Jasper could have poofed her out.
oy vey being poofed is so horrible
the CGs were right there, and jasper had been nuked by the ships engines

>>93067770
it is. criminals are way more likely to do more than one crime than people who have never done crime.

>>93064809

>because she thinks they are evil, like Lapis did
Would I be justified in assisting the destruction of your planet and everyone on it because I think you're evil? No?

>neither did Lapis
Lapis was never helping the cluster and thus did not need to be redeemed for it like Peridot.

Your defense of Jasper hinges totally on the fact that thinking someone is evil makes it true. Which it doesn't.

>>Lapis didn't try to destroy the Earth
>neither did Jasper
This is a lie.

>Lapis inflicted months of torture onto Jasper because she wanted revenge against people who Jasper was unrelayed to, meaning she tortured someone for unjustified selfish reasons which is an evil act
Jasper put her in a cage. And again, hurting someone as evil as Jasper is not an evil act.

>but Jasper did, in an attempt to get revenge on the CGs because she thinks they are evil
THIS DOES NOT MAKE IT OKAY

>Lapis was a coward who ran away from fighting the CGs and took out all of her hatred for them and Homeworld onto someone unrelated to the suffering they put her through
So instead of taking it out on innocent people she took it out on Jasper. While Jasper was going to help blow up the Earth because of her grudge against Rose... /there's definitely a moral equivalency here/

Whether you think Lapis was wrong too or not Jasper fucking deserved it anyway. This is not complicated.

>>93067787
>oy vey being poofed is so horrible
It means she is free to come back and hurt Steven.

>the CGs were right there, and jasper had been nuked by the ships engines
And she still wasn't down and even garnet was afraid and the CG were in bas shape too. there is no telling how this confrontation would have ended. Could have even resulted in a death or a shatter, even if winning in the end.

Jasper wanted to fuse to ensure a certain victory, but even on her own, she was still a threat.

>it is. criminals are way more likely to do more than one crime than people who have never done crime.
That's something else entirely and is more a matter of how we handle the sentences of criminal and ho w e reintroduce them to society.

>>93064563
>is seriously trying to argue its okay to be a completely evil person as long as thr evil act is committed on another evil person

No. You are just a rapist. Not a hero.

Also to kill and murder are different things. Batman should kill the joker because leaving the joker alive is morally wrong as the joker will simply murder innocents, but raping the joker doesnt stop him. Killing him does. To rape ontop of the kill just means youre fucked up yourself and not actually seeing justice beyong your personal bias.

>Lapis is 100% innocent because what she did, she did to a bad person
>it's ok to torture people if they're evil
Lapisfags are fucking subhumans.

Lapis a nigger and rapist
Jasper is pure and perfect

>>93067862
To rape on top of the kill punishes Joker for his wrongdoing and makes him suffer, which is out of character for Batman, but not unjustified.

>>93067881
Killing him IS the punishment, the rape is satisfaction for your own personal ego/evils.

Do you really think raping the joker would stop him? No the joker would keep killing. You'd have to end his life to properly bring justice. The rape is simply unnecessary and speaks about your psych if you really believe it is.

>>93067866
I bet you think waterboarding is wrong you fucking faggot.

>>93067905
To get information to stop more evil people? Justified. What information was lapis digging out of her?

>>93058856
fpbp

>>93067897
Which means you rape and kill him, you are acting is though I didn't say to also kill the Joker. You need to do both. Killing him isn't punishment, unless you believe in hell, in which he will be raped by demons anyway.
But assuming hell isn't real it is your responsibility to make him suffer before you end his consciousness permanently (kill him).

>>93067920
So it's okay to torture evil people. Thank you. We're in agreement.

>>93067929
You DONT need to do both, killing is all that needs to be done. You WANT to do both because you yourself are evil but only can express it on people who deserve it in your opinion. Its a massive projections of your own fucked up mental state anon.

You only need to kill the joker., You need to rape him if you are secretly desiring rape yourself.

>>93067948
>So it's okay to torture evil people.
not for pleasure

>>93067948
In what context, however? To get information to stop more death? This is justified. But was lapis trying to get any information out of her to prevent more catastrophe? No. She was projecting her own demons.

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>>93066078
>>93067760
How is Jasper trying to get Lapis to fuse with her by convincing her of how it would benefit her the same thing as forcing her to fuse? She did not physically force Lapis into the fusion, she did not threaten to hurt Lapis if she said no, and she is not as strong as Lapis when Lapis is a couple of feet away from the ocean, especially not when she was weakened after her fight with Garnet. Lapis knew that fusing with Jasper would allow her to trap her and punish someone the same way she was when she was trapped in the mirror, and that is why she WANTED to fuse with Jasper and gave Jasper her consent, then forced Jasper to stay fused with her for months.

They were both literally in the same positions in Jailbreak as they were in Alone at Sea, with Jasper trying to convince Lapis to fuse and Lapis having all the power to say yes or no.
It was a direct parallel, and the show presents Lapis as being in the wrong for doing what she did to Jasper in Jailbreak and being in the right for rejecting her in Alone at Sea.
She said yes in Jailbreak to trick Jasper and torture her, not to save herself or Steven, she said no and easily punched Jasper away in Alone at Sea because she realized what she did to Jasper was wrong and fucked up and made her a bad person.

>>93067950
Not specifically rape, it just happens to be the subject of the discussion, any form of torture would do it, as long as it makes Joker suffer unfathomably.

>>93067954
Not for pleasure, for justice.

>>93068013
No form of torture would do because it is not justice.

Justice is finding and ending a source of pain, not causing more.

>>93067996
You realize the serious look on her face in that scene was her realizing what she had to do to stop Jasper right? You are basing this all on the assumption that Lapis was strong enough to stop Jasper, and unless there is a power level counter somewhere then you have no fucking idea if she could have.

>>93067948
You don't get it, do you? Whether it's justified or not what she did to Jasper, it does not make Lapis less of a horrible person.

>>93068024
>Justice is finding and ending a source of pain, not causing more.
Beautifully said anon. This is why we dont use tire fires for execution we use what we believe is the most quick death possible. There is no justice in feeding your own inner demons. Pleasure from someone elses torture is not justice, even if that person is evil. The point is NO ONE deserves such gruesome acts. Its why we punish them.

>>93068069
>The point is NO ONE deserves such gruesome acts. Its why we punish them.
Depends.

If it is to prevent more gruesome acts by getting information(WHERE IS SHE?!?!), i support torture. But if you are doing it to satisfy yourself you are no better than the evil person you despise so you are merely raping your reflection at that point.

>>93068039
If it was justified why would she be a terrible person (other than becoming a really boring character pass this point)?

>>93068069
>Implying we shouldn't use tire fires for execution
>Implying we don't need to bring back hangings, firing squads, and guillotines
>Implying it's to satisfy inner demons and not to enact retribution

>>93067996
>How is Jasper trying to get Lapis to fuse with her by convincing her of how it would benefit her the same thing as forcing her to fuse?
Learn to read. I have never said Jasper forced Lapis, I have said Jasper wanted hurt Steven and Lapis, to protect him, deceived Jasper so she wouldn't hurt Steven.

>she did not threaten to hurt Lapis if she said no
Do you seriously think Jasper would have let Lapis go if she had said no?

>and she is not as strong as Lapis when Lapis is a couple of feet away from the ocean
Lapis is a glass canon. She is easily poofable. there is a reason, when she tried to run away, she didn't want anyone close to her.

>especially not when she was weakened after her fight with Garnet
Garnet didn't look like Jasper was going to be easy to beat. When Jasper ememrged from the Debris, Garnet looked scared.

>Lapis knew that fusing with Jasper would allow her to trap her and punish someone the same way she was when she was trapped in the
It was also the safest option to undo Jasper, instead of risking a physycal confrontation where there were no guarantee people wouldn't get hurt.

>with Jasper trying to convince Lapis to fuse and Lapis having all the power to say yes or no.
I don't think Jasper wanted to let her say no.

>and the show presents Lapis as being in the wrong for doing what she did to Jasper in Jailbreak
Wrong, again, like I have explained, Lapis relied to deceit to protect Steven. there i nothing worng with that.

Someone try to hurt you and someone else distrat him by doing a lapdance up until she can knock him out. this is what Lapis did and there is no wrong in that. the issue is that she realised she had some enjoyment doing it.
When Jasper asked to do it again, she was like a junnkie trying to convince a former partner to do drug again. Again, While Klapis isn't a saint, the one in the wrong is Jasper.

>>93068090
Context is everything.. But even rape as a form of torture for information is not really acceptable.

Lapis was definitely holding jasper down to satisfying her own ego though, as far as i remember so she was definitely in the wrong considering gems had a way to deal with her(jasper) kind more humanely.

>>93067996
>She said yes in Jailbreak to trick Jasper and torture her, not to save herself or Steven,
Wrong, it's the direct and most important reason was to protect steven. revenge also took a part in her decision, but nevertheless, what she did was the safest option.

Lapis, in Alone at the seas, realised there was a darker part of her she didn't like and this is what that episode explore. Jasper was the one trying to enable her.

>>93068096
>"it's ok to torture her for my amusement and personal vendetta instead of putting an end to all of this and poof her, she deserves it!"
>"this is what justice is about!"
>literally unable to see what's wrong with this reasoning
Holy shit. Lapisfags are hopeless.

>>93068126
Hanging is human as are firing squads and guillotine. Some of those a little bloody but humane as death is fast.

America still has firing squads and hanging. Just use needles and life sentence more often. Those are saved for special occasions like sadam.

>>93068024
It warms my heart to know that even in these threads you can still find clear-headed and morally sane people like you.

>>93068177
>have to have morality laid out to him like a toddler
>still doesn't understand separating your personal desires from justice

Anon doesn't understand why raping the joker is wrong holy shit lapisfags this fucked up

>>93068177
>Implying poofing her would have been enough to punish her for her wrongdoings
>Implying she didn't deserve it
>Implying this is about liking Lapis rather than thinking that villains deserve to be punished for trying to destroy a planet instead of just getting away with it without actually fixing the problems they caused

>>93067786
>Lapis gave into her rage
Actually... its more like she fully held onto and acted upon that rage from the second she decided in her mind she wanted to fuse. You saw that look in her eyes, and her speech as she begun to dominate Jasper with the chains. I don't see it being noble at any point.

>>93068177
>>"it's ok to torture her for my amusement and personal vendetta instead of putting an end to all of this and poof her, she deserves it!"
No, it's not. the point is, Lapis wouldn't have got an opportunity to poof Jasper.
Stopping her through fusion was the safest option.
>"this is what justice is about!"
Rather, this is what legitimate defence and assistance to engendered person is.
>literally unable to see what's wrong with this reasoning
The problem is, you are missing the point and not understanding that there was no safer way to protect steven.

Justice is only applied once there is a grantee safety is ensured. only then can the culprit go through a due process.

Rule of wars would be more appropriate than justice, there.

>>93068215
Morality is subjective, you cannot explain morality, you discuss it, and it's implications in an attempt to reach a common conclusion about right and wrong

Justice IS my personal desire

Raping/Torturing the Joker would not be wrong

>>93068234
>implying I'm saying Jasper didn't deserve it
>implying I even care about Jasper
>was arguing this whole time about Lapis being a horrible, shit person
Please read >>93068039 again, thank you.

>>93068248
>The problem is, you are missing the point and not understanding that there was no safer way to protect steven.
We've been over this for the whole thread already, and you're still wrong.
And this is not about Jasper deserving it or not, this about Lapis being a shit tier individual.

>>93068235
>Not noble
>Stopping a bad guy

Oh shit guys, don't you shouldn't be angry when you stop Osama bin Laden, if you do something good out of anger it's wrong.

Jfc what is wrong with you people?

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>>93068248
>No, it's not. the point is, Lapis wouldn't have got an opportunity to poof Jasper.
>Stopping her through fusion was the safest option.
>was locked inside a fucking mirror for thousands of years
>Uh geez better not ask these guys to do that to jasper ill just sacrfice myself for the greater good HERE I GO! YATA~

Do you really think this, anon? Either lapis is retarded or selfish. Your pick.

>>93068266
>Justice IS my personal desire
Jesus christ. Are you actually underage or are you memeing?

>>93068039
>it does not make Lapis less of a horrible person.
Except she isn't an horrible person. see
>>93067744
>>93068138

Deception through seduction is not wrong if it's to stop someone from getting hurt.

>>93068285
You cannot be a horrible person for doing something to punish someone who deserves it.
The executioner of a serial killer is not the moral equivalent of a serial killer.

>>93068323
What came after the deception is what is wrong you retard. She literally kept torturing Jasper for her amusement and revenge.

Did Jasper deserve it?
Yes, fuck that cunt.
Does that make Lapis less of a psycho?
No.

>>93068298
>We've been over this for the whole thread already, and you're still wrong.
Ia m still right. we have been over this and you still haven't proven that statement wrong.
This was the safest way to protect Steven. the Argument that "Jasper was already hurt" doesn't hold when even Garnet was still afraid of her and Lapis is know to be easily poofable. Deception was the surest way.
>And this is not about Jasper deserving it or not
I never mentioned Jasper deserving it.

>>93058842
you... watching this shit

>>93068330
>The executioner of a serial killer is not the moral equivalent of a serial killer.
No, but the person who skins alive that serial killer to torture him is.

>>93068299
Lapis didn't stop shit. All she did was delay malachite fighting the gems, and at even more precious time when the cluster was emerging. Jasper would have easily lost if she didn't fuse with her. Look at how easily she BTFO her in AAS, there's a shot of them a few feet apart with the water right near them. Extended underwater torture is not noble. Even past this, Lapis could've unfused at sea and poofed, shattered, or restrained Jasper indefinitely.

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>>93068266
Morality is objective. Humanity has only gotten to this point because we have evolved with a strong sense of it. To need this explained to you pains me as it speaks of your intelligence and mental being but here I go.

We do not murder because it creates a dysfunctional society.
We kill/punish our murderers/ect because letting them live free kills/harms one who is more productive and mentally well
We do not steal because it hurts our economies and each other creating a distrustful society
We do not rape because we know tenderness is how we earn trust and grow
We are monogamous because it is the best way to keep competition and rivalry between men lowest and focused on other things like building and working so all may have a chance to breed and partake in immortality and make society better.
We do not use an immoral act to correct another immoral act because then the immorality would never cease in our justice systems.

Your child like view of morality sickens me to the core, yee degenerate.

>>93068347
The fact that Lapis hold on the fusion to imprison Jasper is not what makes Lapis a horrible person, it's what she did in that time for her own personal interest, and that had nothing to do with protecting Steven.

>>93068311
You haven't explained hos it is retarded. It was the safest way to end Jasper's immediate threat.
>better not ask these guys to do that to jasper
You mean, trapping Jasper in a mirror? the CG don't know how to do that.

>>93068393
the CG's fusing is the safest way to stop jasper or malachite regardless of the circumstances

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>>93068393
>bubble gems constantly
>she was already weakened and was outnumbered
>could shatter her
>nah better fuse into a mega monster that is bond to become a problem later

oh, do go on.

>>93058856
>>93059412
completely misinterpreting the point of the characters and the entire situation surrounding them.
Sugar herself said that their relationship is not black and white.

>>93059999
>Quads of justice

>>93068378
Too bad this post was wasted on some pleb in a SU thread.

Fight on anon.

>>93068448
the SU fandom is 50%tumbler 50% /pol/ its weird.

>>93068341
>What came after the deception is what is wrong you retard. She literally kept torturing Jasper for her amusement and revenge.
Wrong. What come after is here maintaining Jasper under control, it wasn't torturing, it was keeping her in her "cell" to make an analogy. And nothing else.
That she got some enjoyment out of it is the sick part, but it's consequential, not the main purpose. Not to mention Malachite is the result of btoth their pyshce fighting, she was barely in control of her action and constantly under the influence of Jasper.

>Did Jasper deserve it?
Beside the point.
She was a threat that needed to be kept under control.

>Does that make Lapis less of a psycho?
She is not a psycho. She is a flawed individual who took enjoyment of what should have been a disgusting task necessary to do. Like a soldier starting to enjoy the killing he does. Even if it's nescessary, it's still worrying at the very least.

What make Lapis a better person is her taking awareness of it and not giving in to her own dark side.

>>93068390
>it's what she did in that time for her own personal interest, and that had nothing to do with protecting Steven.
see >>93068469
>She is not a psycho. She is a flawed individual who took enjoyment of what should have been a disgusting task necessary to do. Like a soldier starting to enjoy the killing he does. Even if it's nescessary, it's still worrying at the very least.
>What make Lapis a better person is her taking awareness of it and not giving in to her own dark side.
Regardless of whether or not she enjoyed it is pointless. It neede to be done and that's what really matter. When given the opportunity to do it again, despite it not being a necessity any more, she didn't give in. And that's what matter.

>>93068469
>What make Lapis a better person is her taking awareness of it and not giving in to her own dark side.
Can agree on this.

Acknowledgement of your problems are the first step to fixing them.

>>93068469
>That she got some enjoyment out of it is the sick part, but it's consequential, not the main purpose. Not to mention Malachite is the result of btoth their pyshce fighting, she was barely in control of her action and constantly under the influence of Jasper.

This excuse again.
First, Lapis made it very clear in Jailbreak and AaS that she fused with Jasper to have someone to take her anger out on. That WAS the main purpose.
Secondly, don't tell me Lapis was not in control of her actions and it was Jasper. Lapis was the one in control of this fusion and it wasn't until around Super Watermelon Island that Malachite went on autopilot like Sugilite.

>>93068372
No, they're not.

>>93068378
This hinges entirely on the premise that moral societies are a part of evolutionary traits instead of culture created and learn through 1000s of years of philosophy forming common conceptions of morality. Because an objectivist view of morality would make something like China or Islamic nations morally superior to our own because they've created societies that have successfully bred more.

Morality is not just what creates a "successful society" because we judge a society based on morality. We clearly do not judge societies based on their ability to continue existing or extend their own genetic line, because that'd be fucking retarded.

We subjectively define moral outcomes based on societal/cultural/philosophical values we've taken in through our lives and filter our view of the world through that lens.

>>93068439
Sugar herself is a shit writer and shouldn't have made Jasper so objectively evil if she didn't want it to be black and white.

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>>93068562
>This hinges entirely on the premise that moral societies are a part of evolutionary traits instead of culture created and learn through 1000s of years of philosophy forming common conceptions of morality.
It did and remains so.

Any society that derives from it is stunted or destroyed. I will be waiting for you to prove to me otherwise of course.

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>>93068036
>>93068036
She was strong enough to punch Jasper across the ocean in Alone at Sea, easily, while they were standing right next to the Earth's supply of water just like they were in Jailbreak, right after rejecting Jasper to her face, and Jasper made no effort to attack her because hurting Lapis and forcing her to fuse is not even what she wanted to do

Like I said here >>93067996, the confrontation scene in AAS was a direct parallel to the ending scene in Jailbreak. In Jailbreak, Lapis looked at Steven as Jasper waited for her to make a decision and Lapis decided to ignore him telling her not to fuse with Jasper because she WANTED to fuse with Jasper, for selfish vengeful reasons. in AAS she looked at Steven and decided to do what was best for both of them instead of giving into the temptation of fusing with Jasper to use her again.

>>93068174
If the most important reason behind her actions was to save Steven, she would not have fused with Jasper and tortured her for months while getting a sick enjoyment out of it. What she did in AAS was for the health and safety of herself and Steven, tricking and torturing Jasper was not.

>>93068138
We have gone over this... you are saying that Jasper is evil for trying to gain consent from somebody to help her get revenge on those who did wrong against her but Lapis is in the right for torturing somebody for revenge against people who tortured even though the person she tortured is not the same person who tortured her, and it's retarded. Lapis did something awful to someone for selfish reasons, just because it happened to benefit the protag doesn't make it right, especially since Jasper was not a threat to the CGs in Jailbreak, she was already beaten.

>>93068507
I think we also need to awknowledge the reason why Lapis was able to see her own faults is because she had Steven as a support system. Same with Peridot. Jasper didn't have that.

Now what's next is for Steven to actually listen to what Lapis is telling him about her guilt. It's good to be understanding of your friends, but to outright deny that they did anything wrong isn't healthy either. You can tell that Lapis still has a lot of pent up frustration and guilt that she cannot express because it would be an inconvenience to Steven.

The premise of Mindful Education has to apply somewhere, cuz for fucks sake they haven't refereed back to it in a while.

>>93068543
>This excuse again.
It's not an excuse, but a valid point.

>First, Lapis made it very clear in Jailbreak and AaS that she fused with Jasper to have someone to take her anger out on. That WAS the main purpose.
Wrong. her first reflex was to run away. Whe Jasper wanting to hurt Steven is what ticked her off. Her frustration of bein emprisoned certainly played a role in her decision, but her main motivation was still to protect Steven. she says as much in the dream sequence.

>Secondly, don't tell me Lapis was not in control of her actions and it was Jasper.
It was a struggle for dominance of two psyche fighting for control of the same body.
> Lapis was the one in control of this fusion and it wasn't until around Super Watermelon Island that Malachite went on autopilot like Sugilite.
Wrong, It was not auto-control, but Jasper in in control of Malachite the same way Lapis had been in control previously. Jasper became the dominant personality and this is what Lapis was trying to prevent. It's incidental that she took some enjoyment out of it, but her enjoyment wasn't her main motivation, but rather, keep Japser in check.

>>93068590
Indeed. You stunt yourself as a person. People need other to grow. You can not live in your own little world and never have your world views challenged or shaken up a bit. Thats the joy of this place, honestly.

Steven and lapis both would have something to learn from a conversation like that, but i doubt the writers realize the potential lying in their hands.

>>93068585
AAS was a different episode. Don't pretend anything, especially power levels, in this show are consistent.

>>93068580
I would like to poinjt out, these evolutionary traits predate primapes. Even rodents have a sense of fairness.

Find me ANY social animal, especially mammals, that don't rule based solely on hierarchy and rules.

>>93068616
I'm just going to conclude that you're one of those Lapisfags on tumblr/pop culture journalist sites and have deluded yourself into thinking all of this obvious bull.

>>93068580
>derives
strays.

>>93068639
Are you seriously using the show's inconstancy as an excuse now?

>>93068686
Yes, my mistake. lol

>>93068585
>she would not have fused with Jasper and tortured her for months while getting a sick enjoyment out of it
Did you miss the part where Jasper didn't want to unfuse, but get in control of the fusion. This is what Lapis was trying to prevent for months: Jasper taking over while maintaining the fusion.
> tricking and torturing Jasper was not.
Tricking Jasper WAS to protect Steven and WAS the safest option.
>you are saying that Jasper is evil for trying to gain consent from somebody to help her get revenge
Read better, it is not about Jasper trying to gain consent, it is about Jasper wanting to hurt the CGs.
>but Lapis is in the right for torturing somebody for revenge against people who tortured
Once again, learn to read. What I said was that what Lapis did was justified for being the safest option to save Steven and the CGs. Jasper was still powerful and not down and a surprise "attack" was the surest way to defeat her without a risk of her killing or shattering someone.
No even once did I mention that it was justified to torture Jasper. I simply stated that Lapis realized she had some enjoyment out of doing what was necessary and she did not like that about herself.
>Lapis did something awful to someone for selfish reasons
That's the ONE BI THING you are missing, she did something that HAD TO BE done, that was quite bad, yet enjoyed it.
>just because it happened to benefit the protag doesn't make it right
The main reason she did what she did was precisely for saving Steven. Just because she happened to enjoy it doesn't make it wrong or unjustified.
>especially since Jasper was not a threat to the CGs in Jailbreak, she was already beaten.
WRONG! She was still afraid, Garnet was still afraid of her and even if they might have gotten a chance to win against her, it would have been quite likely some of them would have been badly hurt as a result. You simply can't deny the CGs still considered her to be one.

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>>93063774
>>93062293
>>93063519
>>93062530
>>93063372
>>93063645
>>93066047
>>93066078
>>93068036

Wait, people actually believe Lapis was justified in what she did? Wasn't the whole fucking point that it was not a one-way thing?? Are lapisfags this retarded??

>>93068681
You would conclude wrong. This is an objective observation of what happened. Your base your whole argument on Jasper not being a threat at the end of Jailbreak, when she was still considered as one by the Crystal Gems.

>>93068742
please read>>93068729
>>93068616
What Lapis did was the same as the hot chick trying to seduce the villain to save the hero.

The impoirtant point you seems to talk about was that she realised that she actually enjoyed it. Bu when given the opportunity to do it again, she didn't gave in.

Those are reasonable statements.

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>>93068742
Being right is a lonely road.
>Thinking Jasper deserved it makes you a lapisfag
Well memed.

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>>93068562
Anon should really watch some jordan peterson.

Sort yourself out man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us979jCjHu8&t=6722s

>>93068798
>e as the hot chick trying to seduce the villain to feel better about herself
yes

>>93068816
That's incidental, though. Whether or not this happens, doesn't make it less justified.

>>93068801
>Being right is a lonely road.
Well, it doesn't help when you are wrong.
>>Thinking Jasper deserved it
Already discussed, that's beside the point. What matter was that she was a threat that needed to be stopped and it was done in the safest way.

>>93068835
>incidental,
>I'M DONE BEING EVERYONE'S PRISONER! NOW YOU'RE MY PRISONER! AND I'M NEVER LETTING GO!

>>93068616
It's not a valid point because it has no standing in the show's canon.

Lapis said herself that she was tired of being everyone's prisoner and that she wanted to take Jasper as her own. Lapis said herself that she liked taking everything out on her.

Lapis does not care about Steven as much as you think she does, especially that early on in the show's plot. She cared about him to a degree, but not to the extent that she would put herself through suffering for his well being. She was the same person to tell Steven to just let Jasper and Peridot take him to Homworld and make to effort fighting back. If she cared so much about Steven being safe then, why did she refuse to help him escape from the ship?

The show made it clear Lapis was the one completely in control, even if Jasper struggled against her. Similar a scrawny person struggling against someone heavier pinning them down. They're struggling alright, but still not in control.

You think you could tell me why Malachite saw the watermelon Steven and yelled his name when Jasper exclusively refers to him as "Rose"?

>Jasper became the dominant personality and this is what Lapis was trying to prevent.

It was Malachite, not Lapis, not Jasper, but their collective components+ becoming an unstable entity, as foreshadowed by Coach Steven with Sugilite. "Enjoyment" is not the right word, more so "Benefit", as mentioned time and time again, Lapis herself admitted that she only did this vent her frustration.

>>93068870
>>I'M DONE BEING EVERYONE'S PRISONER! NOW YOU'RE MY PRISONER! AND I'M NEVER LETTING GO!
That she also unleash some personal anger over this is not really surprising.
Bu don't forget she also outright say that she is doing it for Steven in the dream episode.

Serious question, would killing Hitler ever be wrong for whatever reason you decided to do it?

>>93068905
>she is doing it for Steven in the dream episode.
a clever ruse to feel better about herself while she tortured Jasper

>I was terrible to you. I liked taking everything out on you. I needed to. I-I hated you. It was bad!

>>93068910
Hitler dindu nuffin that the USA didn't also do.
aside from Federal PE classes.

>>93068910
>defending the jews
>defending wars that sent the worlds into a state of slavery to bankers who desperately pointed the finger at Germany twice because germans were wise to this snakery

>>93068873
>Lapis said herself that she was tired of being everyone's prisoner and that she wanted to take Jasper as her own.
see>>93068905
>Lapis does not care about Steven as much as you think she does
Now you are the one ignoring the show. He is the sole reason she has actually kept going so far.
>Lapis does not care about Steven as much as you think she does,
The opposite is outright stated in the dream episode. and yes, for a while Steven is the most important part for her and probably the only reason she stayed on earth in the first place.

>The show made it clear Lapis was the one completely in control, even if Jasper struggled against her.
Not exactly. the show made it rather clear that her control over malachite was a constant struggle and in Watermelon island, it is Clear that it's Jasper who is in control.
>You think you could tell me why Malachite saw the watermelon Steven and yelled his name when Jasper exclusively refers to him as "Rose"?
Because they share the same mind?

>it was Malachite, not Lapis, not Jasper, but their collective components+ becoming an unstable entity
-You know, you're right, there really is something more to this fusion thing. It's not just a cheap trick. You've really shown me a whole new world of possibilities.
was clearly coming from Jasper. Japser was the one taking over there, after Lapis having been exhausted for months.
>as mentioned time and time again, Lapis herself admitted that she only did this vent her frustration.
Except not. what she admitted was that she had some enjoyment out of it, not that it was her sole motivation. She never stated it was her sole reason.

>>93068935
>a clever ruse
Say you.
>>I was terrible to you. I liked taking everything out on you. I needed to. I-I hated you. It was bad!
Once again, just because you enjoy doing something that was necessary to do doesn't make it less right.

Also, people keep throwing the word "torture", but it doesn't look like Jasper considered it torture.

>>93068910
>implying Jasper, who is a soldier who's goal was to avenge the murder of her diamond by killing the person who murdered her, is comparable to Hitler, who is a dictator and who's goal was to murder millions of people for no justifiable reason
>implying execution is the same as torture

>>93069048
Not them but
>it was Jasper
>because of the fusion line

How about when Malachite said:
>What is this?! You think you can hold me down?!
>Nobody can! Not anymore.
Who has issues with entrapment? Lapis, and Malachite.

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Peridot is the best girl

>>93069095
You seem to confuse dominant control and absolute control.

When Lapis was dominant, you could still get sight of Jasper's personality merging.

same with Jasper being Dominant, you can still have sight of Lapis.

>>93069087

>but it doesn't look like Jasper considered it torture.
Stockholm syndrome.

>Once again, just because you enjoy doing something that was necessary to do
it wasn't necessary,
once she had them away from the CGs she could have defused and poofed jasper while in the ocean.

she was raping jasper for months on end and didn't stop because she liked it.

it was revenge, not duty.

>>93069087
Jasper was on her hands and knees in the mindscape, breathing raggedly to catch her breath. Fusion also changes a gem, the phrase becoming "sentimental" was used in a recent episode that Aqua said about the Topazes acting out of order, and let their transgression slide. Lapis used her power to keep Jasper bound to her and trapped in the fusion, she said so. Other characters have phrased it as Lapis trapping Jasper.

Have to wonder what past fusion experiences Jasper and Lapis have had. They danced without a hitch, and look at how clumsy gems with even thousands of years of fusion experience can be as earlier episodes have shown us. Jasper wound up think that's how fusion should be, causes suffering but elevates you at the same time.

>>93069182
>Have to wonder what past fusion experiences Jasper
none, fusion is for weak gems.

>>93069125
>it wasn't necessary
Yes it was.
>once she had them away from the CGs she could have defused
You missed the part where Jasper enjoyed it too and wouldn't let her do that. Jasper wanted to have control over MAlachite to ensure a certain victory over the CGs. Not to mention, there was no certainty of who would have win in a fight between Jasper and Lapis. Lapis can be undone with a single punch.

Keeping Jasper locked down and put her to exhaustion to the point she was less of a threat was actually the best strategy and what made her beatable in the end. Lapis's choice turned out to be the best strategy.

>she was raping jasper for months
Both consent to it. Lapis just had hidden motives she had to keep that way to save Steven.

>it was revenge, not duty.
It was duty, but that also turned out to be motivated by revenge too.

Is it so hard to consider that one individual's motivation can be a more complex thing?

>>93069224
>You missed the part where Jasper enjoyed it too
not in the beginning when she was trying to escape but lapis kept pulling her back in.
she literally could have just let Jasper escape as they got pulled into the ocean, created a water chain around her neck and poofed her
bullshit all you want but lapis did it for pleasure and not duty.

>>93069182
And apparently fills a void she wasn't aware she had. "No one I fuse with ever wants to stay"
>>93069201
Jasper probably is mostly used to inferior gems like rubies stack-fusing to be worth a damn.
>>93069224
Jasper revoked consent. Physically and vocally.
Lapis' only delayed Malachite and she struck at tje worst possible time, while the cluster was going off.

>>93058842
you for watching.

>>93069048
>"I don't care if you don't want me I'm yours right now!" From Rebecca's drawing of Jasper and Lapis
>Lapis forces Jasper back into fusion as Jasper struggles to escape in Jailbreak
>Lapis has chains emerging from the balls of water in her hands and she is forming them around Jasper's wrists, showing that Jasper is still her unwilling prisoner in Chille Tid
>"Steven! Why do you keep coming back?! I can't get distracted, I've got to hold us down with the weight of your planet's ocean!" from Lapis in Chille Tid
>"After what I did to Jasper" from SOW
>"I can't stop thinking about being fused as Malachite, how I used all my strength to hold her down in the ocean, and how I was always battling against Jasper to keep her bound to me." from Lapis in AAS
>"I was terrible to you. I liked taking everything out on you. I needed to. I-I hated you. It was bad!" from Lapis in AAS
It was made abundantly clear multiple times that Lapis was forcing Jasper to stay fused with her against her will, at least up to Chille Tid. Jasper did not start to want or enjoy the fusion until Super Watermelon Island, when she told Lapis that they should both stop holding Malachite back and fight Alexandrite. If Lapis did not want to stay in the fusion in Super Watermelon Island, then she could have unfused, since it is impossible for gems to force another gem to stay inside of a fusion unless they are using an outside force. Opal and the corrupted Jasper fusion fell apart because their components could not sync. Jasper could not physically force the corrupted jasper to stay in their fusion because she was unable to form anything equivalent to the water chains that Lapis used to force Jasper to stay fuses inside of Malachite. Lapis is a special case since she has water powers and forced Jasper to stay fused into Malachite with her water chains.

>>93058856
This.

>>93062293
>>Still thinking fusion is a metaphor for sex or love or a relationship while Fluorite exist

I'm slow. Explain how Fluorite invalidates this.

I'm assuming you aren't ignorant of poly relationships.

>>93058842
Everyone to some degree, but I'd put more blame on Lapis because that shit was horrifying and she only did it out of a personal desire to torture someone, not caring that it put Steven et co. at greater risk. Jasper at least was pretty straightforward about her goals and was working towards fulfilling her mission

>>93071300
>Pretending love actually exist in polygamy
>Implying polygamist aren't just backwards hillbillies/sluts/islamist
>Implying fluorite isn't just a 6 person fusion because the writers needed a group of misfits

>>93059871
>stopping her from destroying an entire planet after being forced to fuse with her
How can someone actually think this?

Jasper couldn't have destroyed an entire planet, she couldn't even have beaten the CG. she was barely standing. Also no-one forced Lapis into anything, she chose to fuse out her own desire to have a private prisoner to torture, not giving a fuck that this actually was extremely dangerous - Jasper alone couldn't do shit, especially against all the CG and Lapis, who could waterpunch her out cold before she'd have a chance to do anything as we see when she punches her beyond the horizon mid-charge through a goddamn boat. However, through choosing to fuse with her Lapis gave all her strength to her disposal, and should she lose control of the fusion (which she eventually did and Malachite almost obliterated the CG) the consequences could be disastrous.

Trying to insist that Lapis "had to do it" or "she did it to protect Steven" is 100% bullshit. She did it because she wanted to have a prisoner for herself and consequences be damned. And yes it was torture, holy shit, in Chille Tid Jasper is too fucked to stand or form coherent sentences

>>93060564
>she was fucking right to do it and literally no other choice if she wanted to stop Jasper.
Both wrong

Lapis stans are truly the worst. Lapis even spells it out in the show that she did horrible things because she wanted to do horrible things, and is horrible, and yet they still cling to their "she had no choice" headcanons

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>>93071463
>Polygamy isn't real love

>>93071496
>>93071534
Who cares if it was torture Jasper deserved it. What Lapis did is not functionally any different than if she had shattered Jasper in that moment, which was the only better option.

>>93068742
>Are lapisfags this retarded??
Yes, sadly

>>93071570
>Jasper deserved it
For what? For following orders given to her by the gem reich? For being a bit brusque and calling Lapis a brat? For grabbing her ankle so that she'll listen to her begging to fuse instead of flying away? For putting Lapis in a holding cell and trying to take her back to HW for trial when it turns out she's a fucking traitor and a spy who's been leaking information to the rebels who shattered her diamond, instead of executing her on the spot?

Seriously lapisfags are so retarded it hurts

>>93071643
>For following orders given to her by the gem reich?
Yes, literally yes, "just soldiers following orders" is a bad fucking meme.
>grabbing her ankle so that she'll listen to her begging to fuse
Yes.
> For putting Lapis in a holding cell and trying to take her back to HW for trial when it turns out she's a fucking traitor and a spy who's been leaking information to the rebels who shattered her diamond
I don't think I can express how this alone justifies it.

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>>93069224
>You missed the part where Jasper enjoyed it too
Yes, I really did miss that part
I mean the part where she's trying her hardest to get out of the fusion and is literally dragged underwater in Lapis's water chains, screaming in terror, really doesn't look like consent to me

>>93071729
>Cares whether or not a space conqueror consents
I'm sorry that Lapis didn't get enthusiastic consent to save the gems in the way she saw fit.

You know what I like about SU? The porn.

The show might be shit, but the porn though, there's some really good SU porn.

>>93069182
To be honest the whole Lapis - Jasper situation resembles an extremely dysfunctional, abusive relationship to me. It's normal that people who are being abused in pretty horrific ways sort of get so used to the abuse they have a hard time adjusting into life outside the dysfunctional hell vortex of the relationship. Abuse fucks over one's sense of what's normal and what's right.

Jasper having gotten mindfucked to the point where she now sees fusion as naturally being a brutal struggle for power and stronger = better in all cases, can't see how horrifying and abusive and wrong the whole scenario was (as Garnet has made very clear, fusion should always be a free choice) and instead just thinks it's normal and fine and dandy and this time, she'll be strong enough to take it, seems to me to be a very clear parallel to how abusive relationships can completely distort people's views of what relationships are and how they work and what's normal

>>93071707
Okay, so you've waifued Lapis so hard you're beyond all reason because muh sweet sad blue waifu dindu nuffin, I see

>>93059871
>destroying an entire planet.
Jasper has NEVER been shown to be capable of that. She was literally there, as muscle, to figure out who was destroying all the robots.

PERIDOT was more integral in destroying the earth than Jasper was.

>>93062355
If she did do that, the earth really would've exploded.

>>93062530
She's literally a victim. The only reason why we DON'T like Jasper, is because we're earthlings and we're preprogrammed to root for whatever side isn't going to kill us.

But objectively they're both trash.

I think Lapis had quite a bit of self-loathing throughout her appearances as well, which may have been the reason she punished herself with that fusion, while inflicting the same abuse she received on someone else.

It's not uncommon.

>>93072078
Okay, maybe not Peridot, but are we even sure Peridot was necessary to stop the cluster? The CGs would have figured it out eventually.

>>93071845
Lapis isn't waifu, Peridot is obviously best girl.
Lapis is a boring character who did nothing wrong and not much right.

>>93072331
>liking the meme gem
So you really are retarded

>>93072213
In an interview, Sugar said Jasper has a deep hatred for herself, while Lapis and Peridot are very different and believe they deserve better.

>>93072583
The writers are incapable of writing drama. However, the writers are decently funny and it shows in a lot of the townie/barn episodes that don't directly connect to the plot. Though she was a disappointing villain, considering they don't connect her to the main plot anymore it's her scenes and episodes where the talent of the crew actually shines. Unlike Lapis/Jasper/and the CGs who are made completely unlikable anytime anything new is revealed about them for the sake of the plot.

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>>93072668
Come on. Peri is my favourite as well, but this is autistic and begging for backdraft.

>>93072331
>peridot is the best character
>Lapis did nothing wrong
Fucking gagged
>>93072668
You enjoyed that trash known as Barn Mates, Beta, and her piecemeal spiral into irrelevance through season 4?

>>93062355
>Peridot and Jasper for having the gall to invade Earth and forcing her to help
I thought it was the diamonds who ordered her to go on the mission since she's been on Earth recently and knows the situation

It's not like either Jasper or Peridot had the authority to decide to go on their own, Jasper was assigned as the captain on Peridot's mission and Lapis was assigned as the reconnaissance/intel whatever

I don't get why people act like it's Jasper or Peridot who caught Lapis and made her go to Earth. Are people really that stupid

>>93062530
It's not a meme, it's objective fact if you have eyes and sense and aren't blinded by your waifu feels

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>>93072806
Anti-Perifags and anti-Lapisfags truly are a no-fun-allowed basket case.

>>93072974
>he says in a thread where lapisfags are acting like the cancerous retards that are ignoring how lapis is canonly a piece of shit and fusion raped someone for no reason yet has no interesting depth or purpose for existing in the show beyond the malachite plot line

>>93073291
>FUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPEFUSION RAPE

No matter how many times you say it doesn't make Jasper any less of a villain that needed to be stopped and was stopped by Lapis.

>>93073404
Lapis, who is a fusion rapist that enjoyed torturing someone unrelated to the suffering she was angry about for months and could be considered more evil than Jasper when comparing their actions and the motivations behind them, is shit and you have proven all throughout this thread that you are a retard for unironically believing that she dindu nuffin.

>>93073404
>stopped
*Unnecessarily powered up Jasper and delayed what have would been a sweep for the CGs on the beach if it were Jasper alone, and caused the threat to return at an incredibley inopportune time: when the cluster was emerging

>>93059871
>imprisoning Lapis
Lapis imprisoned Jasper because she wants to inflict what she felt on others, she mentions this.
>destroying the planet
Neither of them give a shit about earth, it was about killing the gems and getting revenge on them and the planet where she was imprisoned.
IF Steven wasn't tehre, they would've killed the gems.


Lapis was the one who consented to the relationship and then forced Jasper a few thousand kilometers below the ocean because of Steven and her revenge fantasies. Lapis is a horrible dickhead and people need to stop acting like she's a perfect angel because she's hot.

>>93061046
She's not a nimrod, she just liked playing the victim. She's apparently very good at it, because everyone still believes her.

>>93072806
>Barn Mates, Beta
Yes, but there have been more Peri episodes, like The New Crystal Gems, Log Date, the Kindergarten kid, which have been some of the best in the series post 'Ocean Gem' she was the only bearable part of Gem Harvest, and the cluster episodes.

>>93062097
>Jasper literally 100% deserved it.
stop thinking with your dick.
>Lapis was completely justified in being angry at Jasper for forcing her to come back to Earth
Oh boo hoo, she had to come back to earth for what would have been a little while, so sad. She said it herself, there was nothing left for her on homeworld.
> she only hurt herself and Jasper. Jasper being the fucking villain.
Lapis is perfect despite killing tons of marine life, dehydrating the earth, attempting to drown children, attempting to murder it's sole protectors. Yeah, what a fucking mensch
>Jasper got corrupted and is now hopefully perma-gone instead of just bubbled. (Unless the writers continue to be shit and give her a memebarn redemption arc).
You ever gonna stop being a faggot? You talk like sucritical and your shit's all retarded. Jasper's been heavily hinted at coming back by cancer girl, and by the crew's own work. She's in most official artworks and even playable in the recent game. If you didn't see this coming from a mile away, you're retarded. But I guess we already know that by reading your posts.

Even aside from the obvious tertiary stuff, it's being set up, you know, a trait of good \writing? Set up and pay off?

>People are acting on the assumption that Lapis could have beaten Jasper.
On anywhere but earth she couldn't. As it turns out water makes her super fucking strong. We see this when Lapis ejects her from a boat. Jasper even admits this before being ejected. She's a monster.
>There was no reason for Lapis to care about Steven
Except he healed her and saved her despite everything she did. But you're right, no reason.
>They should have become Malachite and shattered them all and ended this horrid series.
The whole point is she cares about Steven, and only him. Had he not been there, she would have killed them. But continue thinking you could write it better despite not having a grasp of basic storytelling

>>93072641
>Jasper has a deep hatred for herself
>Lapis thinks she deserves better

I don't see it.

>>93058842
How the fuck can Lapis be in the wrong?

>>93073404
Lapis didn't really stop her as much as powered her up into a fusion that did a lot more damage eventually. Jasper was already so weak she'd have been stopped without Lapis's interference, it's why she begged Lapis to fuse with her, because she couldn't win on her own. Lapis could have just done nothing and let the CGs handle her, or waterpunched Jasper so hard she'd poof, or pretend to fuse and then unfuse immediately when they're in the water where she could easily contain Jasper in a water bubble like she did with the Rubies. All of these methods would have been faster, safer, more effective, and also more morally respectable. There was absolutely no need whatsoever for a brutal rapefusion.

However through fusing with her Lapis enabled her to use Malachite's full fusion power as soon as Jasper managed to wrestle the control of the fusion to herself, after months of mindbreaking torture.

Lapis did a shit ton of harm and caused great danger just for the sake of getting to imprison and torture her teammate. It's canon.

>>93074234
Read the thread or watch the fucking show.

>>93074234
read the thread, very easily

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>>93071780
>the show might be shit
Its really not though tbqhfampai

>>93073572

This.

This thread is just a bunch of Jasperfags in denial that their shitty dyke waifu is fucking dead and deserved it.

>>93074234
Why Lapis was more in the wrong:
>>93062262
>>93062332
>>93062423
>>93062483

Why it was unnecessary for Lapis to fuse with Jasper:
>>93067996
>>93068585
>>93071496

For anyone who is retarded enough to think that Jasper secretly wanted it the whole time:
>>93069504

>>93073572
>Because she's hot
Occam's Razor.
I think that's a bit of a stretch.

>>93074536
You mean a bunch of Lapisfags in denial that their shitty waifu did anything wrong and being irrelevant since she raped Jasper, that's been her only contribution to the show past the stupid meme shit at the barn

>>93074173
Jasper shows how much she hates herself in a lot of ways.
She hates being born on earth, she believes she only got out because she was better than it. It's a lie she tells herself, it comes through when she has her breakdown when she gets corrupted. How Rose waits till after somebody's worthless to move in. Basically, everything she says is just shit she kept bottled from her time on earth. Somebody made a good correlation, in that nobody has respect for earth gem traitors. Even if Jasper is some sorta uber gem, they might fear her, but they probably all talk shit to her behind her back and she knows it.

Being born on earth is like a curse.

As for Lapis, she just believes she deserved better than being trappped in a mirror. She wants to inflict on others what she had inflicted on her so they can understand. Further than this is yet to be seen though, as she barely gets any characterization.
>>93074234
She always was, she was a victim of circumstance sure, but ultimately, shes the one who keeps making bad shit happen to her. She also inflicts in on others.
People just don't think so because of some serious halo effect.

>>93073404

Jasper isn't really a villain she was just doing her job which was to get information and fight terrorists. She was going to keep Lapis for information but had to lock her up because she informed Steven and the Crystal Gems about them going to Earth. Jasper thought Steven was Rose Quartz, so of course she didn't treat him like a human let along a human child; which Jasper probably doesn't have much of a concept of since children gems don't exist. Jasper fought and captured the Crystal Gems, who are terrorists/traitors who helped destroy a monarch (Amethyst counts too because she was part of their group and under Rose).

Anyway later when they were back on earth Jasper wanted to fuse with Lapis. Jasper asked Lapis to fuse with her and she agreed to it. They did a nice little dance and became Malachite. Then suddenly Lapis decided to take over completely and drag Jasper into the sea so that she could "save Steven"; but that was mostly so that she could take out all her anger/emotional issues on Jasper and abuse her. She felt like she was being imprisoned again when she got locked up on the ship (but who knows how long her imprisonment would have been especially if she helped on the mission) so all the PTSD from being trapped in a mirror for thousands of years made her snap and take Jasper to make her her prisoner instead. Lapis Lazuli abused Jasper unnecessarily for her own satisfaction and it became some weird twisted relationship while they were stuck in their minds together.

Tldr: Lapis was in the wrong.

>>93074972
What you said was fine, but don't say Jasper isn't really a villain. Just about bad guy believes they're doing right, and her status in the story as such doesn't make her more deserving of what happened when you examine every step along with everyone's motives.

>>93072284
>The CGs would have figured it out eventually.

I really doubt they would've. The CGs are kind of a ragtag group of bumbling morons, to be honest.

>>93068393
>Giant, horribly destructive and inherently unstable fusion
>The safest option
Are you literally retarded? That was just about the worst option possible.

>>93068393
>end her immediate threat
they were all tapped out. Lapis could've just dragged her out to sea on her own. Even half dead and cracked she was able to move the entirety of the world's ocean. You're telling me she couldn't move one buff cheeto puff?

>>93075367
Between Lapis' crazy strength and the other CGs, they could have taken out Jasper for sure. Poofed and bubbled, the end.

Someone has to be out of their mind to think Malachite was anything but unnecessary. Not only that, but Lapis put everybody on the planet at risk by holding together that monstrosity. Look what happened, in the end. They lost themselves in Malachite and Malachite tried to rampage.

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>>93074707
I don't understand.

All of Jasper's personality can be explained by duty, aggression, and ethnocentrism, which fits her character. She's a military mook. And if she is an homage to Vegeta, pride suits her well.

It would make sense to say she's ashamed of her origins, and has a great distaste for all things Earth, but to say she hates herself (compared to her actions, how she's portrayed, and common real life applications) is saying a bit much.

Unless Sugar is deeply into the brown, and feels like anyone of color who rejects their heritage really just hates themselves. In that case miss me with that Get Out shit, nigga.

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>>93058842
there was literally an analogy to their relationship thrown into the episode right before jasper jumped onto the ship and begged lapis to fuse with her again
>Lapis: So, how do you fish the old-fashioned way?
>Greg: Oh, it's pretty simple. You start with a rod, and you put a hook on the end of your line. And then, when you feel a nibble, you reel it in. And there it is. You've caught yourself a fish to eat!
>Lapis: But why would a fish ever bite a hook?
>Greg: You got to bait it. Put something on it you know it wants, like a worm or a $20 bill.
the "hook" = lapis
the "fish" = jasper
and the "bait" = malachite
jasper was willing to "bite the hook" by submitting to lapis and letting her take her anger out on her like lapis did before just so she could be malachite again. lapis is even stunned when she discovers that jasper wants to be malachite again because of how horrible she had been to her

i don't know how blind you have to be to think jasper was the one in the wrong, malachite fucked her up pretty bad and lapis just felt guilty afterwards

>>93074536
Nah, it's a bunch of Lapisfags so deeply in denial about their waifu doing bad things they're denying onscreen canon and also word of god

>>93075079

True. She's a bad guy.
I just thought the term villain was too strong.

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>>93075537
Well not all of it

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>>93075690
Also, from an interview Sugar gave

>>93075596
now that I think about it, that scene where Jasper literally bites (or grabs?) the hook that Lapis casts into the water was probably a little heavy handed if it was just added to make it clearer that Jasper is supposed to be the fish in the analogy

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>>93075725
>Having high standards for yourself is hating yourself

>>93075619
>Pretending writers can just say something and make with true without having to be competent to actually write the dynamic they want to portray

Show, not tell.

>>93075993
in earthlings she calls herself a worthless failure, laughs at herself after she realizes that everybody who fuses with her hates her and doesn't want to stay, and implies she is ashamed of serving under yellow diamond after pink diamond died as if she didn't deserve to try to pick herself up afterwards

you are right that she sets very high standards for herself, but she is always insecure of not being able to meet those standards and be the perfect soldier she's supposed to

>>93075993
Well, it DOES kinda imply that ones desired state is to dedicate each waking moment to pushing oneself forward - and as such allowing a pause to take place might be regarded as impediment. Should that pause be dictated by inability to keep going, one can be driven to conclusion that one is inferior to what supposedly could have been.

>>93075815
How do we know Jasper bit or grabbed the hook? Why would she she zero in on a nigh invisible string with a little colorful thing at the end? Now I'm going to overthink the symbolism. Also, was that Jasper rocking the boat (oh, a pun)? I never understood that

>>93076065
But it is shown. If anything, what we are shown on screen is more indicative of Lapis being responsible than anything the creators say, since they are incredibly dodgy about giving a clear and unambiguous response to the whole situation.

>>93076121
There's tons of people that do those sort of things for the same reasons.
They don't hate themselves, they hate weakness. They set an even higher standard for themselves, ego and all that, and push themselves harder, and punish themselves harder.

Unless Jasper is Japanese. Then I could believe she was born with a deep seated hatred for herself that's just assumed without being shown.

In that case, she should kill herself. Oh wait...

>>93076270
>Oh wait...

Oh, come on - she only got perma-pozzed and poofed.

>>93076181
because Lapis had that anime flash thing and looked over the rail to find whatever she had felt that showed she had sensed Jasper was the one pulling on the line, I guess they had some sort of connection after Malachite or something

having Jasper literally pull on the line like a retard was silly but I just now realized that it was contributing to that analogy given beforehand, it was just heavy handed as fuck

the "ss misery" ship sinking after Lapis rejected Jasper was more obvious and very heavy handed symbolism

>>93076121
>everybody who fuses with her hates her and doesn't want to stay

Lapis fucked her up with that.

>>93058842
(YOU)

>>93076331
Suicide by enemy fire.

There's no better way to go than in battle.

>>93076270
>They don't hate themselves, they hate weakness
exactly, Jasper hates weakness and vulnerability and sees them as things to be punished for, that has always been her biggest flaw and it's the man thing that makes her a bad guy. but she has been beating herself up over being from Earth and not having a diamond or being able to fulfill her original purpose of winning the war and protecting Pink Diamond as a perfect soldier. She hates her origins because they remind her of how much of a failure she is and hates herself because she is aware of her own weaknesses, and everything that happens when she comes back to Earth to avenge Pink Diamond just makes everything worse. That is why she believes she deserves to be punished and didn't deserve to be saved from corruption

It's not really complicated, she basically just sees herself as an ownerless tool that can't do what she should be able to do no matter how hard she tries.

I don't normally come on /co/'s SU related stuff, but this is a topic that I love debating about or speaking about.


Both are in the wrong. One greater than the other. Jasper wanted to get a powerboost so she could just finish the job of beating the CGs and avenging PD. She was really fighting for that. Lapis used this as a way to go and abuse someone. As a Jasperfag, I honestly believe that Jasper should have honestly seen that coming. Lapis fucked her over mentally. Either way, I hope the Jasperdemption arc that's coming soon puts both of them together and has them work stuff out. Especially Lapis for what she did. I don't even think Lapis truly gives a fuck about others. If she had a choice to stay with Steven forever or go back to Homeworld without any negative repercussions, she would leave in a heart beat.

What is considered worse?
Being trapped in a mirror for a long time or living with years of grief and loss of a loved one and being unable to get over it?

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>>93058842
It's funny how many anons miss morals that are aimed at kids.

>>93077407
Because an SJW attempting to skew morality to brainwash kids is incomprehensible doesn't exactly create moral lessons that seem reasonable to most people.

Most people haven't taken a university consent class to know stopping villains without their consent is wrong.

>>93077570
all things considered, I feel like you'd learn that from Batman.

>>93077570
>Most people haven't taken a university consent class to know stopping villains without their consent is wrong.

See? You're still not getting it.

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>>93063540
No. It will continue to haunt any discussion of this show for years even after it ends.

>>93075537
Sugar herself said that Jasper dislikes herself and deep down doesn't believe she deserves better than what she gets, as opposed to Lapis and Peridot who do. Nobody is making it up.

>>93069504
Mind posting the drawing?

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>>93058856
>>93058842
spitting the truth, right out of the gate

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>>93058842
Lapis.

Jasper didn't even want to be on Earth, but she went cause she's a good solider. Jasper only wanted to fuse to defeat the Crystal Gems, a goal she thought Lapis wanted too.

Lapis is Rapis

>>93077570
>Because an SJW attempting to skew morality to brainwash kids is incomprehensible doesn't exactly create moral lessons that seem reasonable to most people.
Wow, it's not any of those things you knee jerk retard. You seee multicolored women and you immediately go REEEE MUH SJW!!!!!!

Grow up and learn what you're criticizing, the creator herself was portraying some grey morality here. That's not SJW you clown, SJW would be "stupid agenda thins is right and anyone who disagrees with it is racist and sexist!!!!" So like non binary bullshit.

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>>93063705
this

>>93063876
how so?
he's right

>>93078737
It's in pic related here >>93062262
The lyrics are from 'I put a spell on you', and the picture implies they are directed to Jasper from Lapis
>http://rebeccasugar.tumblr.com/post/128597732048/i-dont-care-if-you-dont-want-me-im-yours-right

>>93080569
He's not right, but he is a Peridotfag like you seem to be, it's not suprising that you meme gem lovers are all retarded.

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>>93080616
>post Peridot
>get called perifag
You are lucky I constantly masturbate to Peridot, otherwise I would get mad

>>93068576
>objectively
you wanna know how I know you're stupid?
homeworld gems have their own culture and morals. What may appear as objectively true and obvious to you may not appear so for an ancient alien species with different "biological" processes. JFC

>>93080616

I think peridot-to chan is fucking cute
Why not give her a lot more on screen

Can we set start-up venture for funding faggot gay cartoon SU - if paridot route ?

>>93077649
Batman has let hundreds maybe thousands die, by not just skinning and eating Joker.

>>93068576
>Jasper so objectively evil
Anon, Jasper absolutely isn't objectively evil. If you think that the fault is in your end and your juvenile black and white "the protagonist is RIGHT because we see their viewpoint and anyone opposing them is WRONG AND EVIL" view and inability to consider things from many sides

Like a big point in these sort of stories always is that things seem different from the other side, everyone always justifies their own actions and motivations, and especially seeing how HW cleary runs a fascist dictatorship where dissent is punished harshly and propaganda is thick, it's a bit rich to claim that anyone not questioning the heavy indoctrination they've always lived under is immediately "evil"

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>>93058842
I have a hard time characterizing either of them as "evil" or "wrong," they're both autistic dumbasses who started something which could only hurt them

>>93081097
More Peridot, less gay
If you're going to ship Peridot just doing it with Steven. /ss/ is like magnitudes less disgusting than faggotry

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>>93058842
>>93059871
great,another one of these.
They were both in the wrong. Both are bitches who used each other to inflict pain upon someone else.
Lapis was a crazy bitch for trapping both of them in the sea for months out of spite. Jasper was a cunt who wanted to use lapis to kill the CGS, and got trapped like the bitch she was.
They are both horrible people who formed a monstrosity. One of them realized it, the other one didn't.
Now we only need to wait for jasperedemption so this shitty debate can have closure.

>>93081132
Hey just like Zuke