What does /co/ think of Man of Steel honestly? we all know that

>>93020908

It's flawed but still good. It's the same way I feel about Avengers 2.

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>>93020908
The tornado scene really does go against everything Supes should be. It should have been the moment when he really became a hero.

Other than that it was ok. I honestly like Returns more though.

>>93020908
Honestly, it's an okay action movie. But it's just a little subpar as both a superhero movie and an "art film", it's the kind of movie I'd watch when there's nothing else on.

>>93020908

MoS is the best cape movie made so far. It has its flaws, like the Sears product placement and I'd personally change the tornado scene, but it's one of the only cape movies that stuck with me on every level instead of just visuals or cool scenes.

And I say this as someone who prefers the non-realistic Superman stories in comics and likes him having a no-kill rule most of the time.

>>93020908
Was gonna call it good but then the climactic Superman v Zod fight was a visual clusterfuck.

Utterly fucking fantastic.
Only things I would alter off the top of my head...
> Remove the "mabye" line, instead have Pa saying "your missing the point" and go into clearer detail about fearing that the world reacting badly to Clark's existence could cost more lives then however many Clark can save.
> Make he tornado scene much quicker paced & less over dramatic, Clark gets Martha & the little girl to the overpass at the exact same time that Pa gets to his feet outside the car so it doesn't feel like Clark is just standing around doing jack shit, Pa more urgently waves him off & Clark hesitates only for a second & Pa is swept away immediately.
> Remove Church scene & just have Clark surrender to humanity on his own. Or if kept in place have it take place outside & not have the Jesus imagery in the background for people to massively exaggerate the presence of.
> Remove the moment of Clark jumping over the oil truck.
> Make the moment of Clark attempting to punch Zod out of Metropolis in the sky more obvious to the audience so they wouldn't be able to scream "why didn't he take the fight elsewhere".
> Have a montage of Superman rescuing people from the wreckage of Metropolis and using his hearing to locate trapped people.
> Remove Lois & Jenny degrading Lombard. Jenny doesn't owe him a date but she does owe him some fucking respect after he stayed and was willing to die if he couldn't save her.

>>93020958
>The tornado scene really does go against everything Supes should be
No it does not because in that situation inaction was more heroic then action because if he revealed himself genocides and war could happen from religious people flipping their shit that a being exist that proves their gods wrong.

>>93020908
About as frustrating and stupid as BvS but a whole lot more boring. I laughed at BvS, I got angry at MoS.

>>93021005
>young man goes fast and saves dad from tornado
>THIS IS OBVIOUSLY THE SECOND COMING! WE MUST GO TO WAR!!

There were like twenty people there and the situation obviously doesnt lend itself to credible recollection due to the circumstances. It would just be passed off as one of those 'mom lifts a car to save child' type bullshit stories.

>>93020908
It looks pretty good compared to BvS and Suicide Squad now but I still really didn't like it.

Tonally the whole thing felt off, Cavill as Clark never felt genuine or likable to me, and the dialogue was clunky and expository. That's not even going into the needless attempts to "Dark Knight" the film up.

Lastly the final battle in Metropolis felt in very bad taste to me, but I will say I liked what they did with it at the start to BvS, even if it was clearly in response to audiences' dislike of the scene

>>93021137
>That's not even going into the needless attempts to "Dark Knight" the film up.
But that was a incredibly good and needed thing, this is like saying we should have only gone half way to Batman Begins after Batman & Robin tone wise.
Superman 3 & 4 had to be blown in to fucking oblivion like the unholy atrocities they are.

>>93020983
That would have fixed most of my issues with MOS. Also make Henry Cavill 6 years younger

>>93021166
>implying that campy Batman is fundamentally bad

>awful Pa Kent
>Superman turning himself in to the military so he can earn their trust, which made a for a powerful movie poster, feels rushed and unsatisfying
>dialogue between characters feels awkward like every other Zack Snyder movie
And yeah I hate the neck snap. An aspect about Superman I always liked is that he can achieve the seemingly impossible. Superman finding a clever way to take out Zod then and there instead of giving in would have mean more to me than that scene where he took out a giant Kryptonian war machine.

While watching it, I felt like a knife was being slowly pushed into my heart.

>>93021166

And it was a direct response to the apathy most felt while watching Superman Returns, which was a homage to Dinner movies and set in that continuity, after Superman II.

>>93020908
I think it's awful. Even BVS had something I could find good or entertaining. This didn't. It was just a slog through a shin deep mud trench. I feel like I'm pretty forgiving with movies but, god, this was just not something I could find good in.

It has some decent moments but it's held back by the fact that Snyder doesn't respect the character or his mythos. Focuses too much on Krypton and Jor-El. Ruined Pa Kent as a consequence of that. The dreary filter over everything is something I'll never understand. They tried to play the "realism" card with a character who is in no way built for that.

I hate that we have the special effects to make an incredible and bright Superman movie with all sorts of space adventures and battles against grand villains but they insist on trying to make him grounded.

>>93021332
>They tried to play the "realism" card with a character who is in no way built for that.
Except it fucking is, his inherent fantasticalness is diminished if the world around him is also bright silly and fantasy like.
His ability to inspire is worthless if the world is already happy & cheerful on their own, he becomes a flashlight on a bright sunny beach.

>>93021332
>by the fact that Snyder doesn't respect the character or his mythos
Your a god damn fucking idiot, this is like saying Mark Millar doesn't respect Captain America because in a alternate universe that is suppose to o alternate things he made him a product of his time rather then a ideal of his time for the Ultimate line.
Fuck you.

>>93021005
Following that logic, Superman should've never revealed himself at all.

>>93021744
And he can't inspire shit if he is as gloomy and depressing as the world around him. And the world around him should absolutely be bright. If not he seems ineffectual.

>>93020908
A solid premise to reintroduce a beloved character to a new generation that was heartbreaking disappointingly executed.

I don't mind the tonal shift, but they could have highlighted how dark the world has become and used it as a background to contrast with the righteous idealistic optimism Superman traditionally demonstrates instead of allowing him to become corrupted by that darkness which is what they did.

>No one stays good in this world, Lois.

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>>93021777
Calm down friendo you're letting your desperate need to defend these shitty movies cloud your judgement. Also good comparison using Ultimate Cap, who is commonly understood to be awful.

>>93021777
>comparing an alternate universe comic line to a mainstream, feature film adaptation

You need to go back to /tv/

>>93021800
>And he can't inspire shit if he is as gloomy and depressing as the world around him
And he isn't when saving people, he was fully smiling when rescuing the Mexican girl.
He inspires through his actions.
>And the world around him should absolutely be bright. If not he seems ineffectual.
Bullshit.

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>>93021777
>Your a god damn fucking idiot

>>93021831
>Also good comparison using Ultimate Cap, who is commonly understood to be awful.
More likely commonly blindly labeled as being things he factually fucking isn't.
People call him racist even when he had a whole fucking annual hanging out with Falcon saving blacks kidnapped with Zola, a flashback showing him being sympathetic to black soldiers in the 1940s navy and full on calling Zola's victims "your betters" to Arim's face.

I didn't see it because the marketing and reviews suggested that, good or bad, it just wasn't what I wanted in a superman movie. While a lot of people get mad at it for being dark and edgy, I mostly just feel bored by that. In my head, Superman is the guy who shows up and makes everything okay. I recognize that makes him boring because theoretically only trouble is supposed to be interesting... but the Christopher Reeves Superman was somehow great despite using pre-crisis Superjesus who can make up new powers on the fly.

Though that probably had more to do with Gene Hackman just acting his ass off.

So I guess this is the liberal faggot equivalent of "they disrespected muh source material" and "LOL grimderp" but yeah. I don't want a superman movie that is trying to bum me out. I have a job for that.

>>93021880
We're not talking about BvS were talking about MoS genius

>>93021845
A feature film adaption that set out to be a alternate universe take to distance itself from the previous 5 films, 2 of which were good, 1 was decent and 2 were some of the worst movies ever made.

>>93021954
Yeah and he was not gloomy or depressing at all in Mos, he was just quite and kept to himself.

I fucking hated it after I first saw it in theaters.
Then I rewatched it before BvS, and kinda liked it. I wouldn't go as far as to call it great or even good, but it was fine.
It's objectively a bit better than BvS, but I like BvS more, even with all it's flaws and stupid decisions.

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>>93020908
I liked it more the second time around. I want to watch the Remastered fanedit though that sounds like it fixes a few of the issues the film has, can't find a decent link for it anywhere.

>>93021880
>He inspires through his actions.
I sincerely hope that the idea that you have to kill yourself to inspire people didn't end up biting Snyder in the ass with his kid.

Real talk, that would haunt me for the rest of my days.

>>93022103
He didn't kill himself, he died saving billions of people.

>>93022126
Pretty it up however much you want. Dead is dead. And the message is that the world was better off having Superman dead.

>>93022154
>And the message is that the world was better off having Superman dead.
Your fucking delusional, the message was that Superman accepted the world and was willing to die for it.

>>93022180
Yeah, I'm gonna accept literary theory from someone that can't even get your and you're right.

And he didn't accept shit. Because once again the only person her related to at all was Lois.

>>93021005

Oh FUCK, a guy running faster than usual. Launch the nukes!

>>93021962
>previous 5 films, 2 of which were good, 1 was decent and 2 were some of the worst movies ever made.

1. Superman 3 is one of the worst movies ever made in a better world than this. It isnt even in the bottom 10 of capeshit movies.

2. Anyone who really thinks Superman Returns had shit to do with the Donner movies (thematically, anyway) fell for a meme

3. The big difference between a legit alt universe and a reboot is that the reboot is what's gonna be pushed in the mainstream for the next decade

4. The reboot has been a mixed bag just like the oeiginal movies

>>93022180

neither of these things should be the message of a Superman movie...

Mediocre. While it had some really infuriating scenes it was mostly just a slightly worse Batman Begins. It'a why people had so much hope that BvS would be good instead of now which until WW, DCEU was seen as a massive failure that could never be fixed. A large part of MoS inflated hatred really does come from the backlash of BvS, but if you try to see it without the lingering disappointment and bad decisions of Snyder and Warner Brother'sin your head you'd find the movie was just "Meh". The sort of "meh" that if it weren't for the character and brand, most people would've forgotten in a single weekend.

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>>93022099
Always thought they went a little too far with the resaturation of the original cut, but honestly compare the original cut in this image from the original cut the the resaturation I did in >>93020787. It's ridiculous the OC was released so desaturated.

>>93022307
Your retarded they should you just want campy barneyshit for babies

>>93020908
I think its hilariously bad.

Like legitimately on par with Green Lantern or Jonah Hex as far as overall quality.

>>93022378

first MCU movie was Iron Man ws basically a passion project, meanwhile WB was like "Marvel is so famous now, we need to create our own CU! And they rushed them without any thought. Shame, really, WW was a pleasant surprise, mostly because it wasn't all that gloomy. Please WB, give us hope, no despair.

>>93022307
> Accepting the world despite it's horrible flaws should not be the message of a Superman movie...
Wtf...

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>>93021073
>I laughed at BvS, I got angry at MoS.
This was my experience as well. I suppose its because I knew BvS was would be a trainwreck, MoS I was actually hyped by those trailers.

I will never get over Superman causing all that destruction.

>>93022402
>Your retarded they should you just want campy barneyshit for babies

Well... yeah. That's pretty much exactly what I want out of a Superman movie. But thanks for typing that so poorly so I look much smarter than you.

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>>93022273
It's not literary theory, it's crystal fucking clear on the screen, if the world is better for Superman not to exist then their wouldn't have been this memorial pointing to all he saved.

>bvs
>killing one of your flagship characters two films into the ongoing franchise

Well, Snyder understands SOMETHING about comics...

>>93022447

Accepting the world and its flaws is good. Dying is not. Superman is supposed to win.

>>93022489
>this memorial
>pointing to all he saved
Sure seems like the a memorial to the destruction he was unable to keep Zod from causing in MoS.

>>93022458
>I will never get over Superman causing all that destruction.
Accept he didn't cause any destruction, he pushed Zod through one set of windows and collided with him alongside 1 building leaving a crater nothing more.
Your webm isn't his fault he was doing the responsible thing and keeping his eyes on Zod to make sure he didn't start blitz attacking civilians like he promised and didn't realize the danger the truck posed, this is made clear when he looked back up at the explosion in horror at his mistake, if he knew it would explode and didn't care he would have ignored the explosion.

MoS wasn't a great movie, but it's not that bad. All the moments that were forced into memes could have been great if they were handled better. Just for one example, the "stop invincible, son" part would have been fantastic if they spent more time on Jonathan's fear of what would happen when the world found out about Clark. If the movie properly conveyed how he's afraid that his son would be hunted or dissected or something, it would have sold that moment better.

I think Snyder has some really great ideas for his movies, he's just not completely capable of executing them.

>>93022524
No it's what he stopped Doomsday from destroying you fucking retarded dumbass.
He saved 7-8 BILLION fucking lives TWICE in Mos him not being able to be in 2 places at once and save Metropolis at the same time isn't his fucking fault.

>>93022573
>him not being able to be in 2 places at once and save Metropolis at the same time isn't his fucking fault.
You're right. It's Jor-El's.

>>93022502
>Superman is supposed to win.
Then your a pathetic child who wants a mary sue and not a real fucking character.

>>93022598
How?

>>93022604

You mean like Superman for example?

>>93021825

>uses a phrase from the 2nd act of the movie, which is when the hero, in the standard hero journey, thinks of giving up, before accepting his destiny / mission and overcoming the final challenge

Congratulations, you're a dumb-dumb. Superman sacrificed himself for the world, reconciled with Batman and told Lois she was his world and that the world was worth protecting.

>>93022632
Mary Sue's are a inherently bad thing, Superman does not fucking need to be one.

>>93020908
Overly hated by haters, overly drooled over by fanboys.
Actually a completely average and unremarkable superhero flick that only stands out on using way too much CGI, and that CGI being terrible.

>>93022649
Great. So they got half of his character right. What a job well done.

I disliked the vaguely H.R. Giger inspired aesthetic they had for Krypton quite strongly, I did enjoy Superman walking the earth and the stuff about his childhood, I thought the third act was very weak. It felt like they couldn't think of a way to conclude his character arc so they just had him punch his fellow Kryptonians for 45 minutes. And I mean, it was good action but there is a point where an action sequence gets tiring and you just want it to end. Star Wars: Rogue One had the same problem for me.

I would have absolutely loved a movie about just Superman wandering through America like a hobo, occasionally helping people and growing as a person through the things he experiences. Something with only a little bit of Action and a lot of him meeting people, contemplating his role on earth and walking the American heartland. Basically the super hero version of The Straight Story. But I digress.

Anyway, Batman v Superman was a whole lot better. That's a movie I genuinely adore.

>>93022604
Superman will never be a real character, he's the most basic power fantasy ever made, he's a guy created and written for kids.
The idea of an actual character as Superman is laughable.
He's a guy who shoots lasers through his eyes, can fly on his own and who is inmune to everything but some mineral that only exists in his now destroyed planet.

>>93022552
But that's the problem. It's the Kents that teach clark that if something is wrong and you can do something to fix it or help, then you do it.

Yes they're afraid for Clark but conquering your fear or acting in spite of it is what makes heroes.

>>93022627
Jor El doesn't even fuck with the Codex, and Zod doesn't even have the speculation he might have done something to it and follow Jor-El to his residence. If he doesn't follow him to his residence, he doesn't know Jor-El sent his son off planet before it's destruction. If he doesn't know Jor-El sent his son off planet, Zod doesn't seek out the son of Jor-El with the speculation he might have the codex, and bring his Kobiashi Maru weapon to Earth. Even if Jor-El sends Kal off planet without the Codex, the codex gets destroyed with Krypton, and Zod never gets to recreate the Kryptonian race of preordained fates and purposes. Tampering with the codex at all, and putting it in Kal not only gave Zod a target to go after which eventually culminated in the destruction of MoS's last act, but increased the odds of enabling the completion of Zod's goal that Jor-El was trying to prevent.

>>93022652

>Mary Sue's are a inherently bad thing

Only a sith deals in absolutes. Whether he NEEDS to be one or not, he certainly was in the good Christopher Reeves movies, the animated series, the Justice League cartoon, and over 80 years worth of comics... some of which were terrible but many of which were great. When they try to make him relatable we get garbage like Smallville.

also: an*

>>93022691

And there we go. Usually, with people that say MoS and BvS are unwatchable terrible movies, if you give them enough room, the truth that they simply don't care about the character or the premise surfaces and you can see they decided to hate the movie from the get-go, ignoring plot, development, setting, characterization etc.

>>93022861
Because Superman doesn't, he's never had any real character.
He's the ultimate definition of a Mary Sue.

And I don't hate the movie, I feel completely indifferent towards it like pretty much all superhero movies ever.

>>93022890

So all we had over 80 years of comic books, 30+ of movies with the character were Mary Sue stories?

Ok, bud.

>>93022940
With pretty much all heroes, actually.
They die, and they revive.
They get beaten, they come back and beat the bad guy.
They beat the bad guy, a stronger one comes out, and somehow they beat him too.
But Superman specifically, is the embodiment of a mary sue.

>>93020908
I saw it with my friends and liked the bit where the guy punches the other guy very hard.

>>93022861
>>93022890
Here is my question. Why is it that Wonder Woman was able to get everything right that I felt MoS and BvS weren't? I am very easily able to be satisfied. Diana was naive, and dropping Germans left and right. She had her moment at the end of the movie where she was challenged to compromise what she believes in, and still stopped the primary threat by killing the baddie. If I blindly hate the movies from the get go, ignore plot, development, setting, characterization, why was I so easily pleased by one movie that did many of the same things the other movies did, but unable to like those other movies?

>>93023003
>Why is it that Wonder Woman was able to get everything right that I felt MoS and BvS weren't?
It didn't.
It's the same thing but with the cheesy muh love declaration.
Superhero movies have been worthless since Batman and Robin.

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>>93023019
>It didn't.
Maybe for you.
I've been accused of being a DC hating Mouseketeer for fucking years on here because I wasn't willing to eat the shit sandwiches Zack Snyder served me. Well Patty Jenkins and Wonder Woman proved every anon who has ever said so completely fucking wrong. I loved that fucking movie because it was good and the other's weren't.
>but with the cheesy muh love declaration.
You mean that aspect of her character straight from the comics? So sorry you are so bothered by a characteristic directly from the source material. There was nothing cheesy about it. It is literally part of the character. Tell me again how *I'm* the one who doesn't care about character again.

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And we can look back at her doing the same thing in the BAzz run against Hades.

>>93023109
I'm talking objectively, all these movies are terrible, focus-tested formulaic cash-grabs.
There's nothing good about them.
Cinematography, the actors, the plots, the dialogue, it's all a disaster.

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And at some point in Earth One IIRC.

I wonder if we will ever get a decently written superhero movie.
At this point they feel closer to Triple A videogames than films.

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It was fine, but I had gripes. Papa Kent, though he meant well, should have had better dialogue when Clark saved those kids in the bus.

Also, instead of a tornado, Papa Kent should have had a heart attack or brain aneurysm or something in a public area. Any medical officials nearby couldn't do much without a medical facility. Clark obviously could run his dad to the nearest hospital to save his life, but Papa Kent wasn't going to have that.

>>93023144
It's almost like it is a product meant to elicit demand out of the widest possible portion of the general population as possible. You can say the same thing about literally anything repackaged and sold to the mass market.

>>93020908
24/7 Snyder film discussion. On and on until the dead heat of the universe.

>>93023160
this is some fujoshit or what?

>>93023194
It's heat death, you autist, and it's all speculation from a scientist from the 19th century.

>>93021005
>No it does not because in that situation inaction was more heroic then action because if he revealed himself genocides and war could happen from religious people flipping their shit that a being exist that proves their gods wrong.

This justification is really really bad in a shared universe where actual gods do exist, though.

>>93023213
You familiar with filenames, friendo?

>>93020908

A good movie that is very flawed. The Tornado scene was nonsensical. If you wanted to portray the fact that he can do everything, just give his Pa a heart attack.

The fights are great, it actually displayed Clark being heroic, the ost was amazing, the visuals are great... a shame they ruined Pa Kent and didn't give Clark enough time to develop into the person he is in the comics.

>>93021073
This.

>>93023003

You like simpler movies that only glance over hard questions. Wonder Woman is a fun "turn your brain off" movie, which is why you may have liked it. Maybe you don't enjoy the hint of complex threads in superhero movies, like what you see in MoS and BvS. Also, no one really knows details about Wonder Woman origins, chances are you don't either, so you approach it with less preconceived ideas, which help you more easily immerse yourself in the plot.

>>93020908
I disliked the ending, the idea that Superman ideas mostly come from Jor-El and not his adoptive father really did not connect with me at all and I hated the muted colors.

Essentially it was an ok cape movie with a director who had a vision that I did not care for the character.

>>93020983
Lol the tornado scene feels slow but because we are seeing things as supes perceives them, he clearly has the time to resct, pa knows it, but he knows it would jeopardize whatever mission he thinks Clark has.

>>93021005
It is more about Clark not being ready to carry the weight of his mission, and carry that weight, outing him would have to force him to act, wether he is prepared or not.

>>93023402
Sure see a lot of projecting there, anon.
I've read multiple origins for Diana. She has her 4 panel origin like Superman and Batman. The only significant diversion from her traditional one was provided by BAzz, and was included in the movie.

Personally I didn't think it was a turn off your brain movie like Marvel's. I thought there was substance and nuance within it, especially with more respect for WW1 than I was really expecting. I'll even admit that they may have taken some character diversions as well to fit the story they were trying to tell, but even with those changes Diana still felt faithful to her comics self, which is something Superman and to a lesser degree, Batman have not for me within the DCEU.

I find it really funny that people think the Kents, including Clark himself, know the limits of his tenacity / durability / strength so well at that moment in time that they'd be ok with just telling their teenage son to just enter the eye of a tornado, even if his secret was kept hidden, instead of 'protecting' their "child" by telling him not to do anything and remain safe, choosing to risk their own lives before his, like every parent would, no matter how strong their son actually was.

Clark many, many years later passed out after an oil rig explosion, I'm sure he was much weaker back then and probably more scared as well.

>>93023503
And sacrificing himself for his son, so he gets more time to deal with his mission, and ultimately to teach him about sacrificing oneself for those he loves, like he did in bvs

>>93020908
At first, I REALLY hated this film. Then BvS came out, and I was more forgiving of this one.

However, it's still a bad film and suffers from a script that is trying to be self-discovering with the main message (that it thinks it knows but doesn't). The concept of the film itself -- that being an artistic and beautiful jurney into an involuntary God on Earth -- is executed poorly. Superman, despite being the central character with a huge backstory, still eels foreign and alien to the audience, thus connecting with him is made more difficult. This is not helped by Zack's style of directing his actors to have one worried facial expression with big, unrealistic, eyes. It should feel like a symphony of a film, but feels so "one-not". It tried too hard. The script did, and Snyder's visual elements and his altercation to story-telling with Goyer was a mistake.

I can see why people could like it. I can't, for the life of me, see why it'd be praised a masterpiece. Is it because it has symbolism? Well, most films do, and the symbolism in this film is as unsubtle as the product placements.


I do think there're ome elements I like, though. I like that Superman has to kill Zod, to be honest. It makes him realize killing's bad. The destruction, though? No excuse. Snyder just wanted a super-gritty fight and thought it'd be cool. It backfired of course.


It's just an ambitious project that made too many wrong choices, and said choices have carried over to tarnish this "universe".

>>93020908
I liked it. 8/10 movie.

>>93020908
Better than BvS

I like destruction porn

>>93023525

Well, practically every movie out there is smarter than Marvel flicks, but WW cowardly ran away from the tough questions they glanced over, like the fact both sides did evil things with and without Ares' influence. They just had to have her play the 'funny' Donner-like fish out of water (despite the fact she's established as a character that has read all types of philosophy books in all languages) that thinks the world is made of good and evil. Her answer to the tough questions is to only punch and kill "the evil germans", even after one of the sidekicks told her his family was murdered by the british side she's helping, and bring up that Love is the thing that destroys evil. The moment you turn your brain on while watching WW is the moment the movie falls apart.

If it was BvS or MoS, those questions would be central to the movie, but some people would say it's boring or too dark and that the world needs levity right now etc.

>>93023697
okay I see where you're coming from, but it's still a massively shitty lesson to give your kid when you're like "if you have the power to help someone in need, don't do it anyway, because their problems don't affect you personally and you've got your own troubles"


I mean that's not far removed from just saying someone's suffering is 100% their own damned fault because they didn't have the same advantages you did, or they couldn't bootstrap themselves out of it by sheer force of will.

>>93020908

I have mixed feelings about it, it's like after Superman Returns underperformed WB executives upon analyzing focus groups decided to make Superman cool for all those kids and teenagers that play Call of Duty and GTA and that think Superman is lame and gay making him an angsty anime hero and ending the movie with a huge anime fight and explosions and death everywhere.

I love Micheal Shannon cheesyly cheewing the scenary though while being send on a space dildo to a mothership and Faora beating the shit out of some soldiers with Sanic speed, the movie is an over-budgeted B-movie that takes itself too seriously

>>93021111
>>93021798
>>93022297
>>93023235
Not surprising /co/ missed the point. Clark had just had an argument with his dad about whether or not he should reveal himself, and he felt so bad about the "you're not my real dad" thing that when Jon Kent was willing to die because he didn't think Clark was ready, Clark realized he was right. It's not about what Clark could have done. Seriously, how do you people not get this the first time you saw the movie?

I wanted it to be a 9/10, but it was a 7/10.

>>93023950
It was about delaying the burden of the mission they thought Clark had to face, he understood thst Clark wasnt mentally ready to do it, it was an act of love, to sacrifice himself to give more time to Clark to grow up, he obviously wasnt ready yet, not even at the start of the movie. Besides he knew it was to teach Superman about sacrifice because he knew his mission would be a big sacrifice

>>93023950
No, it's about Pa being willing to die rather than let Clark risk revealing himself before he's ready to handle it.

>>93024065
So he was all about to give Clark some guilt? "ill make you regret those words you little piece of shit"

>>93020908
Kino. Better than anything the MCU has made.

>>93023950

Are you talking about the "Maybe." moment?

Because to me it was clear that not even Jonathan believed what he said to Clark by the look in his eyes. He was just scared his son was putting himself at risk - of losing his life, since he doesn't know the limits of Clark's strengths, or being taken by the government for showing his powers - to help others, something he ultimately believes in, which the audience can see when he hands Clark a child before trying to save the dog in the tornado scene or when he talks about doing the right thing after young Clark meets some bullies.

>>93024065
That reading of the scene makes it even worse.
If anything, those anons were giving the benefit of the doubt on that particular scene.

>>93020908
Unironically my favourite superhero movie. Criminally underrated.

>>93024065
>Clark realized he was right
Which is why immediately afterward he runs off and does random acts of superheroics that leave a trail good enough for Lois to follow right back to his doorstep.

Because he wasn't "ready" until Space Dad tels him to move the story along.

>>93023936
>like the fact both sides did evil things with and without Ares' influence
Which Steve acknowledged when he said he may have had evil within himself that Ares had nothing to do with. Hell, they acknowledged the Allies as being unrighteous with the unsavory acts and characteristics of Steve and his pals.
>Donner-like fish out of water (despite the fact she's established as a character that has read all types of philosophy books in all languages) that thinks the world is made of good and evil.
Just because she is knowledgeable about classic philosophers and languages doesn't mean she knows about modern culture or social norms. Fucking look at any autist here on this board? It's the same fucking thing. As for good and evil, it was wrong of her to maintain a belief in the parable her entire Amazonian culture was built atop?
>punch and kill "the evil germans"
When you reflect on who she went after, she took down people exploiting a village of innocents, as well as those helping Ludendorf's attempts to extend a war close to being brought to a close. As someone who understands that WWI Germans are not interchangeable with Nazis, I don't think Diana was in the wrong to try stopping these particular ones.
>even after one of the sidekicks told her his family was murdered by the british side she's helping,
Actually he was acknowledging Steve's American people who has exterminated the natives, which gets back to the fallibility of his side that I mentioned above.
>and bring up that Love is the thing that destroys evil.
Which is again a core facet of Diana's character.
>some people would say it's boring or too dark and that the world needs levity right now etc.
Because it would be. Wonder Woman was able to subtly do everything you think it didn't without slamming you on the head with them, or being up its own ass as it did so.

>>93024065

The whole "Pa Kent is trying to protect Clark telling him to not show his powers" idea is not the problem, it is that it's very poorly executed, Kevin Costner leaving the "stage" through a video game GCI tornado while not even trying to show emotions or barely even trying acting was very cringy. Compare it on how authentic Pa Kent interactions with Clark feel in the Donner movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUGDRxJnFU

>>93024085
>>93024077
>I'd rather saddle my kid with a dead parent and broken home and all the emotional devastation that comes with that on top of the pressure of him "not being ready", whatever the fuck that even means because I sure don't bother explaining it
>also somehow I just know he's going to grow up to die to a ninja turtle so I might as well give him a peek of what he's in for

such a brave selfless psychic dad

It's really, really sad that you people conflate cynicism and negativity with intellectualism. Just because something ends on a high note or is happy doesn't mean it's a "turn your brain off" story, and just because something is morose doesn't mean it's suddenly got more depth or its symbolism is more valid.

It just means that you're a jaded and bitter child that's willing to ignore the forest for the trees so long as it conforms to your specific tastes.

>>93020958
>I honestly like Returns more though.

You're not alone , Returns have some nicely directed and coherent action scenes, but the edgy DCEUtards unironically believe that the Birdy the Mighty rip-off mess of a sequence at the end of MoS makes it a better movie because "it's not the ole boring Superman now it's badass like Batman and Sasuke Uchiha"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2gQo-0VW5c

>>93024065
Because it's an awful, awful scene.

Let's look at it from a logical standpoint, step by step.

First off, the family is assholes for closing the door on their dog. This can be chalked up to being panicked about the tornado, but still.
Then, Pa Kent is an idiot for risking his life to save the dog. A dog's life is just not worth more than a human's life, and I say this as someone who loves animals.
And then there is absolutely no reason for Clark to have gotten the dog instead. At all. Pa Kent willingly risks his life to save the dog over his faster, stronger, and invincible son. Clark wouldn't have had to reveal his powers or anything, and I don't think anybody would be questioning Clark running faster than an older man.

So even if you excuse the whole scene where Pa Kent lets himself be killed, he's still an idiot for a multitude of reasons.
I think Man of Steel is a fairly good movie overall, and I don't have much of a problem with him killing Zod, but the tornado scene brings down the entire movie for me.

>>93020908
best DBZ movie i ever saw

>>93024190
well, "barely even trying acting" is p. much Costner's thing. I can't remember the last movie where he gave even a decent performance, and I saw Waterworld in theatres.

That said, sometimes I think Snyder doesn't really want people to act so much as just stand there and deliver his amazing and important trailer-bait lines.

>>93024182

She acts like a fish out of water in regards to human nature. It's fine to not know how to blend in in early 20th century London, but if you've read so many philosophy books, among other literary genres which 'somehow' ended up on her island, I expect you to not act surprised by the fact the world isn't black and white. I also expect you to not simply attack the evil german guys like they were the only ones killing innocent people ("The germans are still fighting there, so that's where Ares must be!!") in a large-scale war.

The movie's second to last scene has her in the middle of London, while the british are celebrating the victory. The final message of the movie is that love trumps everything. It's childish in nature, like there were two movies being poorly mixed in one, a WW1 gritty Wonder Woman story and a childish Wonder Woman origin story, but the latter prevailed in editing.

>>93024463
DBZ stole the premise of Superman. Baby who's homeworld died raised by people in a rural setting and he grows up having nearly identical super powers.

>>93024182

It's Injustice-tier of storytelling. They bring up interesting questions and when it comes time to truly test the different ideas and concepts (Nature of a man, right or wrong in a scenario of all-out war, ethics and moral, greater good justifying evil acts), the story runs away and a fight between "good and evil" begins, only to end with the good guys winning, for some bullshit reason like Love <3 in this case, and the questions ignored.

>>93024432
This. If the tornado scene had played out more like Clark tried to save his father and failed, it would've done a lot more for the story.

Hell, it would've given Supes more of a reason to be wary about using his powers. "What good would it do? I might fuck up again."

>>93024415

Superman Returns is a rethreading of the old Christopher Reeve universe, without 90% of its charm. Superman never learns anything in that movie, he doesn't grow as a character or face anything he thinks he can't handle. All characters are static and just reprising roles. Maybe it should have been more about Superman finding out he has a son instead of real estate - again -, Superman rescuing a plane - again - and flying with Lois - again, all with the quips and music you'd expect, like 'is it a bird' etc.

The lack of action doesn't help either.

>>93024595
Just because you've read famous philosophers doesn't mean that you really understand the complexities of life and the world per se, especially when you grow up in as sheltered and cultivated society as her's. She had no real contact or tangible understanding of our world. From her childhood she was taught that men are naturally pure and whatever evil there is in humanity was seeded by Ares. That was the capital T truth for her and she ran everything she learned of the world (second hand, I must add) through that filter.

Those germans were directly harming innocent people at that very moment. What was she supposed to do, ask them nicely to stop, get up and leave? She did what she had to at the moment when she still believed she had a moral imperative.

The celebration at the end I sort of agree. The movie needed to more clearly acknowledge that finally killing the real Ares didn't solve anything and WW1's aftermath directly led to WW2. I think that's pretty much the only thing that really changed about the movie according to WB's post-BvS damage control. We have our own hindsight to fill the gaps, but the movie could use a more bittersweet note to end on.

>>93020908
pretty good, on par with Wonder Woman

>>93024106
how do you get that at all? Do you really think people are so petty? That is some serious projecting you got going on.

>>93024137
>respecting your father's wishes and trying to keep the world safe is worse

holy kek

>>93024173
>immediately

we have no idea exactly how much time passed between the two, and he takes great pains to keep himself hidden when doing the great acts he does, and keeps moving forward so that no one can ever pin him down or see him for too long.
Also there is a big difference between being a loner doing super shit and being among people who likely live in the same area you do and can recognize your father and family.

>>93025028

"Where's the battle happening? That's where Ares must be!" is something extremely naive to say that, should the plot not have been braindead, should not be rewarded. Instead, she finds Ares and Ludendorff and Dr. Poison by doing exactly that. Yay for love!

If she thinks men are pure and those germans were corrupted by Ares and that killing Ares would stop all wars, shouldn't she have avoided killing those men, even in self-defense, considering all her powers? Surely she had the means to subdue them instead of blowing church towers to kill snipers.

Shouldn't she see the germans as victims of Ares' influence too?

The movie doesn't want you to think of this when she's punching and stabbing them, though, which is what I mean when I say it was cowardly done and just "turn off your brain" dumb entertainment.

>>93024432
>First off, the family is assholes for closing the door on their dog. This can be chalked up to being panicked about the tornado, but still.


You have no idea if thats what even happens, its never shown WHY the dog is still in the car. The wind could have blown the door closed for shit sake! What a stupid stretch!


>Then, Pa Kent is an idiot for risking his life to save the dog. A dog's life is just not worth more than a human's life, and I say this as someone who loves animals.
So you dont want a superman that values every life, no matter how small? Are you a sociopath?


>And then there is absolutely no reason for Clark to have gotten the dog instead. At all. Pa Kent willingly risks his life to save the dog over his faster, stronger, and invincible son. Clark wouldn't have had to reveal his powers or anything, and I don't think anybody would be questioning Clark running faster than an older man.

Goddamn, Pa Kent gave Clark a small child to hold and take to the overpass while he went back for the dog. AND he wanted Clark to watch over ALL THE OTHER HUMANS who were in danger. Pa Kent knew that Clark would do more good protecting the people and that he could risk saving the dog Its like you cant even remember the scene correctly.
>he's still an idiot for a multitude of reasons.

Most of which you made up or really had to stretch the logic to make sense. God you are pathetic.

>>93022458
>he hates the movie for things that didnt actually happen and he made up

typical

>>93025495
>>93025028

Let me clarify, the movie only glances over those questions. In the ending, after she kills Ares, some german soldiers take their helms off and just feel relieved. Wouldn't she have to feel disgusted at the fact she killed german soldiers before that moment instead of considering drinking a beer and dancing in the captured town?

It was trying to be two movies, the happy and the realistic WW movie.

>>93020908
For the first minutes, I really thought I was watching some sort of Final Fantasy movie. Which ended in a Dragon Ball Z melee (which isn't necessarily bad).

Honestly, I really find it a good movie. Not the best for sure, but it was a nice entertainment. The real problem is that doesn't look like what I did expect of a Superman movie.

>>93025549
>You have no idea if thats what even happens, its never shown WHY the dog is still in the car. The wind could have blown the door closed for shit sake! What a stupid stretch!
Watch the scene again idiot. Ma Kent literally gets out right beside the dog to look at the tornado and shuts the door behind her.
>So you dont want a superman that values every life, no matter how small? Are you a sociopath?
This argument doesn't even work, and goes directly against what Pa Kent was teaching him before.
>Goddamn, Pa Kent gave Clark a small child to hold and take to the overpass while he went back for the dog. AND he wanted Clark to watch over ALL THE OTHER HUMANS who were in danger.
Pa could have taken the child to the overpass while Clark went and got the dog much faster. He would've been there and back with plenty of time to spare.
>Pa Kent knew that Clark would do more good protecting the people and that he could risk saving the dog Its like you cant even remember the scene correctly.
I literally just rewatched it on youtube. Clark doesn't do anything to protect the people at all, he just stands there watching his dad die.
And what was Clark even supposed to do to protect the people from a tornado without risking showing his powers?
>Most of which you made up or really had to stretch the logic to make sense. God you are pathetic.
No, I'm just not an idiot. Clark could have ran at a very fast sprint, quickly grabbed the dog, and ran back before the tornado was anywhere near them.
Pa Kent ran like a slow old man to get the dog, couldn't even convince it to leave the car, and got stuck by the car because of how much time he wasted.

>>93024065

Oi, It's not about what they're GOING FOR, it's about what they actually put in the movie. And what they put in the movie was Superman letting his own dad die in a completely preventable and almost consequence-free situation that's shot and acted in a way that's completely hilarious. It's the exact opposite of what they should have done.

If anything Richard Donner's was better because Superman having amazing powers and still being helpless to save everyone all the time is a powerful and logical part of that character.

And the worst part is, in Man of Steel he ALREADY revealed himself in a much more obvious fashion years prior when he lifted the bus out of the water.

It's another example of how bad Man of Steel was about having characters tell you how they feel, but then show you something completely different. The most harped on being everybody talking about how "important" and "world changing" Superman and Zod are, but then being completely unphased by 100,000's of people dying until BvS addressed fan criticism.

>>93025863

>Pa could have taken the child to the overpass while Clark went and got the dog much faster. He would've been there and back with plenty of time to spare

...
Are you memeing?

He literally stops Clark from doing that for the reasons he stated.

>>93025495
>is something extremely naive to say that
Unless your perception of Ares, something your culture you've been raised to believe knows more about him than anything else, is that he would be in the middle of the fiercest combat. She goes after Ludendorff because he is the person pushing the fiercest to extend combat. Why is it such a stretch that his chemical developer would be with him? As for Ares being there, it is established at damn near the beginning of the movie that he would seek out Diana once becoming aware of her.
>If she thinks men are pure and those germans were corrupted by Ares and that killing Ares would stop all wars, shouldn't she have avoided killing those men
When those men whether corrupted or not are posing a threat to innocents or allies within war a combatant needs to put down the enemy in pursuit of stopping the war. She says herself that she will defend those unable to defend themselves.

All you're asking is considering the eternal paradox of the character. She is a soldier of peace. She fights to attain peace. That isn't easily achievable but you fight long enough to get to where to need to to bring about that peace. If Diana went and stopped everyone during World War I, I can already see the cries of her being a Mary Sue, and people who defend MoS and BvS dismissing the movie as kidding shit, which many are still doing because people didn't want to slit their wrists by the time it was over.

You may think the movie didn't want the audience to consider the Germans being under Ares influence, but I thought of that everytime she was taking soldiers down. Diana has never had a no kill rule, and has probably compiled a higher stack of corpses than Superman and Batman combined. She is a soldier unafraid to break eggs to create a peace omelette as her Amazonian upbringing trained her to do.

>>93025922

>I can already see the cries of her being a Mary Sue, and people who defend MoS and BvS dismissing the movie as kidding shit, which many are still doing because people didn't want to slit their wrists by the time it was over.

I'm not asking for her to end the movie crying, but the final message was extremely childish in nature. She killed Ludendorff and asked why people didn't stop fighting, which is all I'm asking for in a movie that talks about the reality of war and the nature of men... only for the movie to end with real Ares showing up, getting killed by the power of love, germans taking their helmets off, british celebrating as 'winners' and a message of love above all. Like if WW2 and other conflicts never happened after it. All in the name of a feel good ending.

It even poorly connects with BvS, which is what the film tried to do with the photo and Bruce e-mailing her, since in BvS she says she had given up on humanity until Superman and Batman decided to fight at the end. The way Wonder Woman movie ended, you'd think she had become the protector of mankind for always believing men were in essence pure and had good in them, despite sometimes showing their dark side, as she says in the final monologue.

>>93025903
I didn't say superhuman speed. Clark could have run at a speed of an olympic sprinter, and I don't think anyone would have freaked out that he's an alien. And even if people did question it, I don't think it's crazy that you could chalk it up to adrenaline.

>>93022273
>Yeah, I'm gonna accept literary theory from someone that can't even get your and you're right.

>again the only person her related to at all
OH THE IRONY AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

>>93022524
>hurr durr he is a bad person because he couldnt stop a genetically perfect military general with combat training and super powers from destroying a few buildings
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>93020908
Some scenes needed to be done differently, less faffing about on Krypton at the start (about 90% of what was shown wasn't relevant in any way) less uploaded-consciousness hologram dad Jor-el undermining the inherent "wholesome farm kid dealing with the moral complications of having godlike power" point of Superman. Zod's terraforming machine was entirely unnecessary as both a threat escalation (Superman versus another super man can cause enough damage, the unstoppable force meeting an immovable object dilemma) and just in general (we ended up on a planet that is already perfectly catered to our biological needs and actually so much better than our homeworld that it turns us into gods... FUCK THAT let's shit this place up killing billions just to make it as mediocre as our shitty homeworld instead). The whole movie needed better editing in general.

It works but is very flawed.


>>93021005
>save Pa Kent from suiciding for doggo
>if superspeed just dismiss any claims by witnesses as hysteria caused by the stress of the situation
>if normal-ish speed and using downward flight/anchoring to stay grounded just dismiss not being blown away/sucked up by the tornado as a goddamned miracle and let people say that extra prayer on Sunday to no consequence

Done.

>durr how u not git it nurr

It's plain as day what they were trying to convey with the scene, but that doesn't stop it from having been executed poorly. Like how a low budget horror movie trying to scare with cheap, shitty props can turn it into a comedy as a result.

>>93026230
>She killed Ludendorff and asked why people didn't stop fighting, which is all I'm asking for in a movie that talks about the reality of war and the nature of men...
Which was acknowledged by Steve to Diana and Diana to Ares. Mankind may not be pure and may be flawed, but along with that inherent capacity for wrongdoing is also an inherent capacity for good, which is worth protecting and encouraging.
>only for the movie to end with real Ares showing up, getting killed by the power of love,
A means of conflict resolution the character has resorted to using for decades.
germans taking their helmets off, british celebrating as 'winners' and a message of love above all.
Because she finally put down Ares and removed whatever influence he might have had. If you really want a look at WWI, by that point in the war, soldiers of both sides were completely over the war. They recognized their being treated like meat thrown into the slaughterhouse by the higher ups, and resented them for it. In my opinion it makes more sense for a Christmas of 1914-like resolution, with the conflict only being fueled be Ares's influence fueling the solider's fouler natures than insisting those soldiers would have kept fighting because you want a Snyder-esque examination of humanity's worst natures.
>Like if WW2 and other conflicts never happened after it. All in the name of a feel good ending.
Which is why some people have proposed that Ares may not really be dead. You're out of your mind if you don't think they'll be explored in the sequels.
>It even poorly connects with BvS, which is what the film tried to do with the photo and Bruce e-mailing her, since in BvS she says she had given up on humanity until Superman and Batman decided to fight at the end.
Thank fucking Christ. As someone who couldn't stand that, I'd take a soft retcon that feels truer to the character than adherence to Snyder choices I didn't like.

>>93026278

Because he had already been seen by his school friends lifting a bus, everyone thought Clark was an alien or angel or something else, as seen in the movie.

Pa Kent didn't want Clark to be discovered before he was ready to show himself, by any means necessary. He was scared Clark would be forced to make a decision before he was ready and come to regret it or be taken by the government or some shit.

Clark is 16~17 years old at that point.

You're also using real world knowledge about the character and his powers as Superman to tell how they should solve in-universe problems. They know Clark is strong, but they don't know Clark can survive a tornado. Lots of people assume they think of him as an invincible being at that point, which is assuming too much.

>>93026482

>Thank fucking Christ. As someone who couldn't stand that, I'd take a soft retcon that feels truer to the character than adherence to Snyder choices I didn't like

We'll have to agree to disagree then, because even if I didn't like BvS I'd still want them to respect the established continuity and character development. To me, they should either hard reboot, recast Wonder Woman and make a new movie with the new tone they want or respect the eatablished canon and properly tie the narratives.

Retconning stuff, to me, is a fuck you to your time spent watching the previous entries, no matter if you liked them or not.

I still like the WW movie, but I feel it's often childish (and not in a good way) and much inferior to BvS and MoS. It's obviously better than most Marvel movies and Suicide Squad, though.

>>93025863
>This argument doesn't even work, and goes directly against what Pa Kent was teaching him before.


Uh, how?
>Pa could have taken the child to the overpass while Clark went and got the dog much faster. He would've been there and back with plenty of time to spare.

Okay let me re-iterate since you have a problem reading.


Pa Kent gave Clark a small child to hold and take to the overpass while he went back for the dog. AND he wanted Clark to watch over ALL THE OTHER HUMANS who were in danger. Pa Kent knew that Clark would do more good protecting the people and that he could risk saving the dog

Do you not see why Pa Kent would think it would be better for his super powered son to watch over a HUMAN child and other HUMANS while he risked his life to save a dog? Or would it make more sense for the non-super powered, old man to watch over the humans?


> Clark doesn't do anything to protect the people at all, he just stands there watching his dad die.
Correct, but his dad wanted him to be there JUST IN CASE.
>And what was Clark even supposed to do to protect the people from a tornado without risking showing his powers?
I can think of tons of ways right off the top of my head. Protecting the child in his arms from debris for one, helping the wounded or hurt with his x-ray vision which he doesnt have to reveal at all, listening for others that might be trapped which again doesnt require a reveal.... you arent very bright are you?
>Clark could have ran at a very fast sprint, quickly grabbed the dog, and ran back before the tornado was anywhere near them.

So you want a clark that would put down a child in a crisis and not listen to his father? You want an asshole? There was no reason to think his father COULDNT save the dog in time until it was already too late.


Its like you dont understand how tornados work and cant accept that people make mistakes in disaster situations, which doesnt surprise me. I doubt you go outside very much.

>>93025596
>The real problem is that doesn't look like what I did expect of a Superman movie.

The real problem is you are so dumb you cant even string together a coherent sentence correctly.

>>93026676
>We'll have to agree to disagree then
Happy to.

>>93024927
And MoS is a Star Trek Into Darkness tier reboot of Superman II with elements of Superman I.

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>>93025576
>post an actual webm of the destruction
>didn't happen
snyderfags everybody

>>93026482

>Which is why some people have proposed that Ares may not really be dead. You're out of your mind if you don't think they'll be explored in the sequels.

And I agree with this, it definitely left it open, but the fact it was left open meant it poorly connected to BvS, despite the fact they tried to tie them together by having the photo plot point brought up, as well as Bruce's e-mails. She ended WW in the complete opposite direction she started in BvS, which leads to my previous post and our different points of view about retcon.

>>93026767

Zod invading Earth is literally the only similarity between MoS and Superman II. Superman having an origin story is literally the only similarity between MoS and Superman I.

>>93026804
>I will never get over Superman causing all that destruction.
>Superman causing all that destruction.


Thats the part that didnt happen you idiot. Even in your very own webm is a truck being pushed by Zod, and superman obviously had no idea the destruction would be that bad because his FIRST reaction is turn around like "oh shit"


You are basically mad that superman wasnt psychic in the heat of battle.
dumbfags everybody

>>93022458
>Ha ha Zod, I have effortlessly dodged that and- OH FUCK! I hope there weren't any people in there.

>>93020908
It's an alright movie, I suppose. It's more entertaining watching autists on /co/ and /tv/ argue over it.

>>93024190
>video game GCI tornado
You're right, they should have used a real tornado.

>>93024432
I see someone never had a dog. I'd go back for my dog.

>>93025895
But that is what they put in the movie, I guess you were just too dim to get subtext. Maybe 4chan really is as full of autsists as they say. Also, where in the movie did it suggest that many people died before BvS gave a specific number? People had plenty of time to run for it, maybe the ones in the buildings closet to the ship couldn't make it out after the gravity pulses started, but they could leave, y'know, before that. Shit, a guy on the street could keep ahead of what was happening just with a brisk jog. Also, you miss the subtext, then say there should be MORE subtext? Pick one, friendo.

>>93025895
/thread

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>>93020908
Personally, I absolutely hated it, to the point where it crushed all hopes for comic book movies. Still haven't watched a theatrical release of a comic book movie since, I only watch them in the background once they're out on Netflix if I ever bother watching them at all.

File: scout ship.jpg (66KB, 1437x593px) Image search: [Google]

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>>93020908
Good movie, though I wish it stayed on the sci fi ambient tone it had in the first half instead of moving to the "giant action mythology" thing it had going on in the second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXsUlqaWr3o

>>93020908
I think it has good moments and bad moments, just like any movie made

except for The thing, which remains a no-flaw film for me.

>>93026767
People harp on BvS and MoS, but I have absolutely no idea how people can defend Superman in SMII. The character in that movie is absolutely not Superman.

>>93026491
That's still a bullshit excuse. Even if Clark did the exact same thing as Pa Kent, but running slightly faster than an old man, he would have been fine. Even if he was in the same situation where the car landed on top of the car, it was far enough away that no one would be able to see what happens, and Clark would have just pulled his foot out from the wrecked car.
>>93026682
>Uh, how?
Pa Kent literally tells him he maybe should've let the school kids die on the bus to protect his secret.
>Do you not see why Pa Kent would think it would be better for his super powered son to watch over a HUMAN child and other HUMANS while he risked his life to save a dog? Or would it make more sense for the non-super powered, old man to watch over the humans?
Pa Kent could have almost done fine protecting the other people.
>Correct, but his dad wanted him to be there JUST IN CASE.
And I'm arguing that he would have been there just a minute later if he went to go get the dog. No one is going to die under the overpass in that amount of time. And even if there was some car that went flying towards it, Clark would have had to reveal his powers no matter what.
>Protecting the child in his arms from debris for one
Something pa could have done
>helping the wounded or hurt with his x-ray vision which he doesnt have to reveal at all
First off, there'd barely be any wounded. The tornado literally just started a minute ago. There certainly wouldn't be anything needing X ray vision.
> listening for others that might be trapped which again doesnt require a reveal
And then what? Would Clark go yell for pa to save them too?
>So you want a clark that would put down a child in a crisis and not listen to his father? You want an asshole?
Saving both a dog and stopping your father from killing himself does not make you an asshole.
>There was no reason to think his father COULDNT save the dog in time until it was already too late.
Clark still could have done it faster than an old man.

>>93027023
>I see someone never had a dog. I'd go back for my dog.
I do have a dog, and I said I love animals, but I don't think an animal's life is worth more than a human's.
And if they really cared about their dog in the first place, they wouldn't have left it behind in the first place! If they really cared about the dog like a family member, you don't leave family behind.

>>93027288

To think I share movie-going experiences with dense people like you that can't understand Pa Kent didn't believe the "Maybe" he said and neither did Clark...

>>93027372

Are you a machine or a sociopath? Do you calculate the value of people and things in desperate situations like that?

>>93027023
>Also, where in the movie did it suggest that many people died before BvS gave a specific number? People had plenty of time to run for it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VefpCwtp51A

2:02 Good thing this building was completely empty! Those people stuck in traffic on the street surely could out run the building falling down several blocks

2:30- Wow, it's Sunday so nobody was in that parking garage that got hurt!

3:12 Typical sonic boom, people can survive that at close range right? I made sure the clear the street before the rubble fell

4:39- It's still Sunday, empty buildings!

5:17- I think those things will burn up in the atmosphere, hurting nobody!

Oh shit, Zod was about to kill someone, good thing I stopped him before anybody could get hurt.

>>93020908
The mood and theme of the movie didn't fit the character, made it feel more like a out of continuity movie.

Also, it makes no sense why Zod became genocidal. "I want to remake Krypton", you can do that with all the other trillions of stars systems out there, why earth? Just because Supes was there?

Zod and Supes clearly have interstellar travel, why couldn't they just go next door? Zod really think mustache twisting evil person that he would commit genocide rather then just going somewhere else which would take him like what? A year longer?

Jonathan and Martha Kent were also 2 badly written characters. Constantly trying to push Supes into a objectivist mindset, which really seem to impact Superman. Which makes little fucking sense, because his comics counterpart is furthest thing from a objectivist. Snyder/Goyer really need to take a philosophy class, because Superman has always been more about Absurdism which is a counterpoint to Nihilism then he has against Objectivism. But since Snyder is such a Rand lover he probably forced this message into the movie, despite it not working with the character at all.

Movie really gets brought down by Snyder's love of Rand and her philosophy which should take no place in a Superman movie. Because her philosophy does not relate to Superman unless it was a elseworlds tale.

>>93027395
That doesn't make it his "maybe" a good line. No Good father would have ever said maybe.
>>93027465
>Are you a machine or a sociopath? Do you calculate the value of people and things in desperate situations like that?
No, this is obviously from an outside perspective, and I can't say I wouldn't try to do the same in their situation, but that doesn't change the fact they literally closed the door on their dog and left it in the car. Pa didn't have to die if they didn't forget about a part of the family.

>>93027492

He needs the codex to remake Krypton and it was in Superman's body. They look at humans as we look at animals, terraforming other planets would probably take longer than terraforming an already habitable planet like Earth, and he doesn't care we would die in the process.

>>93027861
Just because he saw humans as lessors doesn't mean it doesn't take a mustache twisting evil villain to wipe out all live on a planet just so that Krypton could live.

Why not just terraform Mars? Why not go to the Centauri star systems which would probably take like a month to get to because of FTL travel they display and just terraform one of their planets?

>>93026712
> Anon is annoyed with another anon's grammar, but still understand the idea perfectly.

You're probably the soul of your english classes.

>>93021005
You dropped your fedora, trenchcoat, and acne cream, fattie.

>>93028110

He has been genetically built to only think of Krypton, he doesn't care about other races, it's not moustache twirling.

>>93020958
I can't do returns. Lex getting his fortune by fucking an old woman is gross and undermines his genius. Also the whole dog eating the other dog that they could've just not done pretty much sums up the whole movie for me: they just shouldn't have.

>>93027487
Yeah, it's not like this alien shit had been going on for hours, giving people plenty of time to leave. Oh wait...

>>93028591
Just because that's the explanation behind it doesn't mean it isn't mustache twirling.

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Hi there /co/, remember me? I'm the Codex. I was a pivotal piece in the movie, and will surely be an enduring part of the mythos.

>>93031165

Moustache twirling is being evil for the sake of evil, having sinister laughs, like Dr. Poison after she throws the gas in the germans war council room. Zod was built to protect Krypton, so he'll step on anyone or anything in the way of his hardwired mission. He's as much a victim of a decadent society / race as he is a ruthless villain.

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Some Pacing issues (too much on krypton and the fight at the end should have just been fighting ZOD...not that stupid tentacle world engine)

Pa Kent dying was waaay to over the top. Him just having a heart attack is perfect (though i can see not wanting to repeat that)

would have liked to see Superman saving some people between getting flight powers and Zod showing up.

I really enjoy most of it and Im a life long superman fan (mostly pre-crisis) and love the Superman 78 movie (and part 2). Probably if i was begin honest , as a film, its a 7/10.

>>93020983
This is my response as well

>>93028110
why bother? He was already on Earth. (and he hated Kal-El because of his father so that was good enough reason)

>>93031303
Wait a month and don't murder all live on a planet or don't wait a month and murder all live on a planet.

Being genetically made to protect krypton doesn't mean he becomes ruthless or careless about other live.

>>93031376
Because waiting is just a minor inconvenience? He fucking traveled all the way to earth, just to get the codex, but he can't be bothered to just go next door and wait a month before starting Krypton.

Zod's just not a well written villain, whether you like that or not. His motivations to commit genocide don't make much sense, considering the time frame we are working with. They made him unnecessarily irrational and evil. He's supposed to be the greatest general on Krypton no? Then why does he make such basic mistakes.

Far from perfect, but better than most of Marvel's sterile, formulaic movies.

>>93020908
I really liked it other than the tornado scene, it does nothing for superman as a character and it makes no sense for the aging farmer to get it when his large 19 year old son could do it, and the smallville fight, while it looks cool superman actually brought the fight there and did plenty of damage himself.

It also set Cavil up to be muh superman in the sequel, but we all know how that went

>>93023503
Oh fuck off, I'm close to an apologist for that movie but you're delusional

>>93022524
This is a fucking retarded arguement.
Do you blame Thor for Loki leading an invasion of NYC?
Do you blame Tony for Quiptron killing all those people?
Do you blame Cap for Bucky become a fucking assassin?

>>93025441
>we have no idea exactly how much time passed between the two
For the internal timeline to make any sense it's gotta be less than a year.
>and he takes great pains to keep himself hidden when doing the great acts he does
If he did then Lois shouldn't have been able to track him.
> and keeps moving forward so that no one can ever pin him down or see him for too long.
That is literally what happens. He gets seen and pinned down.

Now, in the franchise's defense, Lois Lane is apparently a fucking clairvoyant.

>>93026491
>Clark is 16~17 years old at that point.
He's older. He's gotta be at 19 at the youngest.
He doesn't put on the suit until he's 33, and he's said to have been gone from home for a decade. So the Tornado scene happens when he's between 19 and 23.

That's why "he's not ready" falls flat on the ears of critics. The math shows that he's effectively an adult by the time the tornado happens.

>>93034769
>Do you blame Tony for Quiptron killing all those people?
Yes.
And what's more, TONY blames Tony for that shit. Which is why we ended up with him being pro-registration.

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>>93020979

>>93034769
>Do you blame Tony for Quiptron killing all those people?
That's what Civil War is about. A woman literally walks up to him and says "I blame you for the death of my son".

>>93020908
Superman was 33 years old before he ever flew. (I wrote more but that is all I really have to say. Shitty movie)

>>93030536
They don't.

That's one of the problems with the movie. There's a lot of rhetoric about about how when mankind finds out its not alone in the universe it'll change everything, but it doesn't really change anything until the sequel, and even then, not as much as it should.

Within Man of Steel I was expecting something out of a disaster movie like 2012 or Deep Impact where as soon as Zod issues his ultimatum there's looting and martial law gets declared. Or at least a mixed deal like Independence Day where there's constant traffic jams while people try to get out of the city mixed with crazies welcoming the aliens on top of sky scrapers.

But we just got business as usual. The Daily Planet staff is all there in their office. And that's not even them being dedicated reporters; we see in BvS that the Wayne offices were open and busy as well. There's no mention of martial law, or prices being frozen by the government, no riots or looting, not even any indication that schools got closed for the day. It's not until the World Engine parks itself over a major city and actively starts vaporizing real estate that anyone even thinks to get the fuck outta dodge and start running. They had a full day to panic and yet everyone's still in their offices like it's no big deal. And even then, a movie and a year after that, it's largely been reduced to a talking point by pundits.

Hurricane Katrina got a bigger freakout from humanity than an alien warship popping up.

Mankind finding out about aliens was supposed to "change everything" but when the literal worst case scenario of the destroyers coming and spelling out how they're gonna kill everyone happens, the mankind was way too calm and that made the entire thing pointless. And the worst part is the only reason I can think to explain it is that Zack and David wanted their godzilla moments.

Why is it that everyone who defends DC movies talks like they spent 90% of their time on /tv/?

>using flicks/movie/film as a grading system
>quips consist of the entirety of their argument against marvel
>"you just didn't get it" about every criticism

>>93035009
NO

I think she says "My son is dead, and I blame you"

Then she fucks off to Harlem and beats her cousin to death

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>>93022539
>"accept" instead of "except"
>losing all credibility in the first word of your post
>the fucking state of Snyder apologists

>>93035009
Civil war is about quips and nothing else.

>>93035215
/tv/ pls

>>93022539
>in horror at his mistake
you have a very loose definition of horror. At best he looks mildly confused.

>>93035215
I too had a good laugh when Bucky choked out Tony's mom after beating his father to death.

>>93035131
Pretty much this too.
No Superboy, no LOSH. The guy just jerks off for 15 years on a fishing boat as his formative years. No shit he behaves like an autistic child at 33.

>>93035142
>There's a lot of rhetoric about about how when mankind finds out its not alone in the universe it'll change everything
everything russell crowe says is made for the trailer and has nothing to do with the terrible movie

>>93035009
And then they proceed to wreck an entire airport while cracking jokes.

>>93020958
He was a confused kid at the time, he didn't know what he stood for at that time. He wanted to help, but his dad was worried what would happen if he revealed his secret.

That being said, I don't think it was filmed right and came off like he let his dad die for no reason

>>93020908
It isn't very good but it seemed like it could only get better from then. Of course, I hadn't seen any Snyder films before so I had no idea.

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>>93035505
There was no people there so it's okay.

I liked Man of Steel. I have three problems with it though:
1. Tone was all dreary
2. Jesus symbolism, while nice, was too heavy handed
3. Third act felt too long.

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>>93030536
Thanks for showing me that Metropolis was completely evacuated and that nobody was around when shit was exploding and crashing down

Oh wait...

>>93035659
Yeah, I mean, it's not like damaging a lot of public and private property (those cars Scarlett Witch throwed at everybody) wouldn't have any impact in anybody's lives.
And this one isn't even justified as them stopping some menace. It was just them being fucking retarded and having to solve everything in a fistfight.

>>93035417
>everything russell crowe says is made for the trailer and has nothing to do with the terrible movie
That's nice but I'm talking about what Kevin Costner says. Which is pretty much what dictates the course of the movie and its tone.

>>93020908
It's ok, but I feel like my opinion would be different if I had paid for it when I saw it.

>>93022458
In your own clip all he did was dodge. The movie reveled way too much in it's destruction porn for a superman flick, but to say superman himself caused it is just unfair

>>93020908
It was overwhelmingly okay. I have a lot of the usual complaints, such as the tornado scene. My biggest problem was with Superman's characterization, or lack there of.

>>93020908
As a big Supes fan I fucking hated it. It shows that Snyder and the people at WB fundamentally don't understand him.

That being said at least it was a coherent story and I thought it ended on a nice note and I had hope for the sequel......oh how fucking wrong I was.

>>93020908
>mixed bag

MoS is definitely a mixed bag

BvS has little to recommend it, Diana was good (and I haven't even seen WW, so I am basing it just on the theatrical release), especially in the fight with Doomsday but all her scenes showing up the Great Detective were also excellent. I don't see that Amazonians not having sufficient tech to not be able to un-encrypt the thumb drive.

Alfred was on point, not canon but an excellent way to make him feel like canon but also be fresh and unique. I don't like video games and don't really want them in my visual entertainment but even I can admit the Bat warehouse fight was a good scene.

Lois being a good investigative reporter was on point. Otherwise most of the movie (89%) is shit.

MoS had some better highs but most of their portrayals of Jonathan and large chunks of Clark's hobo wanderings, and so much more is just crap. However, only about 20% is crap - tornado scene and neck-snap among them.

>>93020963
>MoS is the best cape movie made so far

It's not even top five. The only top tier thing it has is the flight scenes and Superman in non-punching action scenes.

i'm sad that Henry Cavill got such a shit hand dealt to him. he's genuinely charismatic and a great Superman. i watch him and it's like he's begging to be allowed to save somebody and smile.

>>93021332

The whole Krypton segment came from Nolan and the rest came from Goyer. Why people always blame Snyder for the script?

>>93022811

>the animated series, the Justice League cartoon, and over 80 years worth of comics...

No, he isn't. Fuck, in the cartoons he was even corrupted by Darkseid. He wasn't a Gary Stu, nor he always won.

>>93020908
based capekino.

>>93039784
>Why people always blame Snyder for the script?
they're stupid

It's the best live-action Superman movie. By far.

>>93032620

Zod is a well-written villain. You're just obtuse.

Zod's like a radical muslin, the only difference is that his religion is the scientific culture of Krypton. He considered Superman an abomination because he was born the old-fashioned way. He only cared about kryptonians. Krypton had a culture of military expansionism. And Jor-El tells Superman that there needs to be a foundation that they can build things with the World Engine. Mars wouldn't work.

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It was ok, and I honestly didn't even mind SUperman killing Zod. The biggest problem was the interpretation of the character.
Superman's not supposed to be Jesus. He isn't good because that's how his father intended, because that's destiny. He is sent to Earth as a baby - a clean slate. He is good because that's how he was raised, he does good and helps people because he was taught that's the right thing to do. His goodness comes from humanity, not He represents the absolute best a man can be and should be. There is none of that in the movie.
And honestly, he doesn't even have a real reason to become Superman in the movie. His upbringing is really bleak - he is bullied, Kents teach him that he doesn't owe anything to anyone and should look out for himself first and foremost, even at the expense of others' lives. I honestly don't see how that person would grow up to be Superman. It's more likely he'd end up becoming Ultraman or Plutonian. Actually, considering how Lois seems to be the only thing keeping him from going full Injustice, he did.
Another issue is lack of character development. In the beginning he is brooding, somewhat approachable, already saving people, has a bit of an asshole streak (fucking up the truck) and the only thing keeping him from being fulltime superhero is his quest to find out about his origins. In the end it's exactly the same sans brooding (which comes back in BvS anyway) - approachable, saving people, asshole streak with the drone. I actually though killing Zod would serve as a good character development moment, and he would be better and closer to his comic book self in the sequel, but we all know how that turned out.

>>93040066
Krypton was run by a bunch of idiots then. Because what he did was put an unnecessary threat on his operation just because he was impatient, so either he is incredibly dumb or not very good at his job. Patience is key in warfare and expansionism, and what he did is went to the only planet that really could give him push back and tried to push them into a corner. It's dumb warfare, not something I expected from a general who is supposed to be top rank.

But that is why they forced these 2 to interact by making Zod dumb, because of bad writing by Goyer.

So, why exactly couldn't Zod just terraform literally any other planet?

>>93020908
MoS was better than BvS, but i aint gonna say its the pinnacle of cinema
it is above SS, BvS, Thor 2 and iron man 2, but below WW, Ant-man, and GotG

>>93020958
oh ffs. he was protecting his mother and the kids -or at least that's what jonathan intended.

his father made the choice to go out there, and although clark had been acting rebellious, having grown enough to see the limits of his father's insights and vision, he still wanted to honor his father's wishes.

in this timeline, jonathan's death marks the end of clark's childhood.

with the death of his father, clark is no longer a child living in protest of his father's rules, he must become a man who must now decide his own destiny and what is right for himself.

if you're expecting a super savior who is always right and never does anything wrong, i understand why that scene is objectionable; snyder / goyer was more interested in delivering a story about a man who is falliable (and thus relatable), who chooses to become 'the superman' rather than tired story about a born idol who was created perfect.

i have issues with the film (s) but not with its writing or its intent. my issues have to do with the editing and with some questionable directorial choices. mainly, that snyder doesn't seem to know how to lead his actors or how to craft / buttress a more complex narrative.

also, something that doesn't get said a lot is that the mos outfit is highly underrated (much like the asm outfit imo). it looks strange in pictures but in motion it looks stupendous. i like it a lot better than the bvs outfit with the square 'belt buckle'

honestly, mos, bvs and the watchmen could all benefit from additional added footage / editing.

>>93026462
>krypton
krypton feels nonessential because so much (TOO MUCH) was cut from it (aou has the same problem, and it's super evident since all the deleted footage is included on the blu ray; i think there's ONE deleted scene that should have been left on a cutting room floor and all the rest actually strengthen the film dramatically).

the problem is that so much is cut out that what is left behind feels superfluous.

in mos (and bvs) krypton represents facism.

>>93026462 cont.
>>93043268
for instance, lets look at jorel.

we don't see much of jorel's character.

we see him reacting to his son's birth ... and then the very next time we see him, he is telling the krypton council that krypton is doomed and that their only hope is his own newborn son. in other words, what looks to be a total asshole move.

it's a dramatic scene that would have carried much more weight, and have given jorel some extra dimensions, if we had already seen him as a man of some decency. instead, it felt... 'overdramatic' and hamfisted, because we don't know who the hell this guy actually is. anyone can REACT to things in a very typical way. it's their CHOICES that define them, and the first choice we see jorel make is to say that krypton is doomed except for his son. it is a scene that is ruined because we did not already see that jorel is a decent and relatable man.

furthermore, that scene happened just after we saw a grey, washed out kryptonian room with very typical looking costumes on lara and jorel, and then a very boring, typical looking sepia environment for krypton, with very typical, boring looking alien cattle. in other words, the movie has just begun and already it is beginning to feel very tired and trite.

so we have what looks like a nonsensical, asshole move preceded by boring, typical visuals (compared to avatar which was still fresh in everyone's memory) and honestly kind of a stereotypical beginning with the birth of the main character. all of this could have been redeemed with MORE detail and MORE characterization, not less.

>>93043469 cont.
>>93026462
for instance, it's VERY hard to tell that jorel is actually wearing his classic green and gold tunic, which is a callback to the animated series and the comics.

it's not established at all that lara is being rebellious for not wearing a skin suit. she looks like any other woman from any other costume drama.

the alien beasts are there as a cheap and accessible metaphor about nature vs artificial facism, but we never get to see much of krypton's natural beauty or that krypton is crumbling before the final implosion.*

*how i would have done that is to splice in some panning shots of kryptons environments during the birth scene, with sinkholes appearing at long distance, and end with a big dangerous looking sinkhole appearing up close right at the base of a kryptonian building, exposing a resilient but skeletal understructure and forshadowing krypton's doom.

>>93026462
>>93043509
>Zod's terraforming machine
forces clark's hand and exposes zod's villainy. zod is a lab engineered sociopath and the thing about sociopaths is that they don't always look evil on the surface, especially when they're acting in the interests of their tribe.

if zod hadn't grandiosly shown clark that he intended to exterminate the humans to create a new krypton, clark might not have had any reason not to give zod the codex. you would have had to invent a wholly different reason for their conflict.

removing krypton and the terraforming machine also messes up the metaphor of krypton representing facism and clark representing a free man, which is kind of an expected thing when you're writing a story about a man called SUPERMAN written by two jews as a response to the rise of naziism in germany.

> let's shit this place up killing billions just to make it as mediocre as our shitty homeworld instead

such is the true face of authoritarianism. it is always this arbitrary and petty.

speaking of pettiness... i just realized how much time i just wasted writing this stuff. i have a lot more to say about snyder's directing but i think i'll save it for another time...

>>93043894
>removing krypton and the terraforming machine also messes up the metaphor of krypton representing facism and clark representing a free man,

>and clark representing a free man

All of the major decisions in Clark's life are forced on him. Hell, even his clothing choices are genetic. He just does what he's told, and in the absence of being told what to do he doesn't make choices himself, he seeks out people to tell him what to do.