Watchmen thread

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>>92994684
>Rorschach
Please

>>92994684
*unironically tips fedora*
was it really necessary for him to be turned into a rorschach spot after death

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>>92994740
lol

Did that happen in the movie? Atrocious

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>>92994740
>>92994809

>>92994730
that fag is literally the worst character

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>>92994684
>We'll never see Rorschach and Nite Owl take on crime during the sixties besides this one panel.

STRONG TOGETHER

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>>92995042
there's always this, if you're a gamer

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Reminder that Rorschach is canonically a fag.

>>92996411
is that pic supposed to somehow emphasize what you wrote or are you just retarded

>>92996411
Yeah he's implied homosexual here and then in Pax Americana also. I think it was Moore/Morrison's witty play on the fact that Ditko is probably a homosexual (never married) and Question was supposed to be a Ditko's self insert in original Charlton verse. In Pax Americana there's a line where I think someone say come out of the closet or something.

>>92996411
That just makes sense for the character honestly

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>>92996411
>>92996588
>>92996799
what is this dubs invasion

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>>92996829
Shit, didn't even notice.

>>92994973
>The one character who did something to, even just temporarily, to evade total nuclear annihilation is the worst character

>Not the unwashed autist who spends the books beating and intimidating petty criminals and a handful of completely innocent people

>Not the literal demigod who chooses to ignore human suffering while he fucks around on Mars building sandcastles

>Not the millionaire tech genius with a state of the art flying contraption who only ever used it to save people from a burning apartment and to break a murderer out of prison

>Not "rape baby: the sideplot"

>>92997281
>rape baby
She wasn't the rape baby. Ages don't match up.

>>92996411
>claims to think Veidt and his capitalist empire are decadent trash

>shamelessly applies and steals a bottle of Veidt brand cologne because he's a Ullillillia-tier artist who won't shower

>>92997281
>killing a whole city is totes ok, it's for the greater good after all
>totes no other solutions available even tho he is supposed to be "the most intelligent man on earth"
>backstabbing trash
>looks and acts like a total fag and not the good kind

>>92996411
How does this make him gay? It just shows he has no respect for privacy.
Also after Comedian's funeral he's lamenting that "American love" doesn't exist anymore while walking past a strip club, pretty sure he's straight.

>>92996411
Nah, he just likes and confides in Dan and is shitty when it comes to respecting people's privacy.

Or do you mean him stealing the Veidt perfume that's popular with gay people?

>>92997980
I think he's just fucking repressed when it comes to sexuality and sublimates any of his urges by beating criminals. Rorschach would only respect a woman if she dressed like a nun and showed no hint of sexuality and even then he wouldn't entertain fucking her since the idea repulses him.

Honestly if he were to have a significant other he would be happy with a platonic relationship. He would be content just by having that person hold his hand and have them beat criminals and scum right along with him.

That's all he really needs to be happy.

>>92994684
>Rorschach
You mean a discount rendition of the Question?

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>>92998883
You mean... (pic related)

>>92998971
Heh yeah that really fits.

Honestly that is all Rorschach really needs and why he got sour about Dan quitting and why he was happy to see him wearing the Nite Owl suit again.

Dan is like the only positive relationship he ever had, everyone else ran from him or dismissed him as a crazy guy but Dan got to know him and he put up with him.

Rorschach just wants a friend.

>>92999373
;_;

>>92997281
it was all for nothing he is just as useless as the autist beating up criminals

>>92994809
>>92995042
i wish i could draw like this. it'd take a lifetime to learn though.

>>93001169
you coud if you didnt spend your free time in 4chan

>>93001169
not necessarily. I went to an art school and some of the kids there really sucked in the beginning. after 5 years of practice their art looked really good. it never looked as good as the art of the kids who had natural born talent, but it looked much better than average for sure. and that in only 5 years.

>>93001226
>he doesn't take breaks from drawing to shitpost

>>92994730
He annoys me

Is there a mega for this, I want to read it but I don't want to use readcomiconline.

>>93003366
why not?

>>93003398
Reading comics on my computer does not really feel that good and it drains the battery on my phone in about a 1-2 hours.

>>93003465
>Reading comics on my computer does not really feel that good
Wouldn't you still be reading it on your computer with the mega? Do you intend to print it out?

If you just want the content I'd suggest using the motioncomic on youtube. The one man voice over is comical at first but you get used to it.

>>93003646
>it (readcomiconline.to) drains the battery on my phone in about a 1-2 hours.

>>92994876
That was such bullshit, it made look dr manhattan like a cunt

>>93003903
he was a cunt

>>93003366
Bruh just buy it. Comics feel so much better on paper, and this is the best one ever written so it's worth 20 bucks.

>>93004681
is the comic much better than the movie?

>>92995093
UNITED FOREVER

>>92997281
You know the crazy thing is, the writer (Alan Moore) actually agrees with you and hates Roarsach.

Roarsach was created as a parody, the opposite of everything the writer believed in, but he wrote the characters from a neutral point of view, he created a story which could really be considered from multiple perspectives.

Everyone respects Roarsach because he does not compromise, but most people are like Nightowl, not willing to die in protest of what he sees as inevitable anyway.

>>92995042
I mean, I know that /co/ probably prefers to pretend that they don't exist, but there are prequels and there is more of that in them
Also I unironically think that some of them were pretty damn good

>>93005160
what are the prequels? rorschach and nite owl are the only characters that interest me

>>93005237
They're called "before watchmen". I didn't like the Rorschach one too much, but the Nite Owl one was decent, and half of it is centred on Rorschach anyway. I liked the Silk Spectre one the most out of them.

>>93005384
thanks man I'll check them out

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Watchmen thread? Watchmen thread.

>reread the comic
>reading Watchmen and Philosophy for fun
>rereading Watchmen as Literature for fun

I first read Watchmen when I was 14. Now I'm 23 and it's such a huge part of my imagination that I can hardly remember a time where it wasn't affecting me and how I read comics. I wish I could read it for the first time again.

>>92994684
Rorschach's the best character and I will fucking fight anyone on this.

>and he's not the best in a "wow he's so badass" kind of way

He's like Snape in that most people think he's the best character for the wrong reasons.

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>>92994876
I fucking hate Snyder.


>>92996411
Rorschach is probably bisexual, to be perfectly honest. Whatever he is, it's incredibly repressed.

Heterosexual:
>has a wet dream focused on a woman (albeit his mother)
>stares at big ol' tiddies in a window and leaves when a man comes around
>anxiety around women's underwear while working in garment factory

Homosexual:
>D-Daniel-sama-sempai
>the hand shake scene directly parallels Daniel clinging to Laurie's hand when his feelings for her were still unrequited
>the advertisement Ror hides his paper near was designed to attract homos

Although the panel you chose is pretty shitty evidence. It implies moreso that Walter is aware of his smell and feels bad on some level. He wasn't stealing it to smell Daniel while whacking his meat, he was putting it on after some bum back in Happy Harry's dive bar commented on his smell.

>>92998883
I agree with this mostly except I don't think Ror vents his sexuality through beating up thugs - that's more Daniel "I gotta dress up like a giant bird before I fuck this supermodel" Dreiberg.

Ror is more driven by revenge and over-empathising with the victim, IMO.
>>92998907
>THE MODERN QUESTION IS LITERALLY A RIPOFF OF HIM
HURM....

>>92999373
/r9k/ the vigilante

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>>93004814
I actually haven't seen the movie, but the book has lots of extra content like excerpts from Nite Owl 1's autobiography. The costumes actually look like super hero costumes instead of rubber movie costumes. The 9 panel layout is ingenious.

>>93006412
The movie has lots of little fun stuff I enjoyed (the Keene Act PSA? Hilarious.), but it's shit overall.

>and no, it's not because of the squid
>it's because Snyder can't into themes

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>>93006412
I actually liked Nite Owl's costume in the movie.

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>>93006720
Eh, I thought it was a little overwrought and grimdark, but I'll also concede that the comic's designs were a little too Mickey Mouse.

>>93006412
Would the modern audience enjoy the 3x3 grid or would they consider it contrived? I'm thinking about implementing it because it gives me much more creativity with vertical space without sacrificing landscape shots if necessary (3 panels -- similar to DC: New Frontier). Also it allows me to jam more content into into the page which means I can stretch out certain scenes to show more moments in-between the panels.

>>93006720

I liked Silk Specter's movie costume better. Actually, "like" is a strong word. I could never figure out what was supposed to be going on with her comic costume? Was she wearing a big yellow trash bag with a black leotard underneath? Looked fucking bonkers. The mom's Silk Spectre costume looked vastly superior in both the movie and the comic

>>93007292
the mom was superior in general, in my opinion

>>93006004

what are the right reasons anon?

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>>93007243
>contrived

I have no clue, but I would argue that it's so commonplace that your audience wouldn't even register it. This might be smart, since when you do want the audience to pay attention to the panel format, a variation would be more noticeable. On the other hand, you may be perceived as lazy and uninventive. Overall, I don't think it would register with a general audience positively or negatively.

>>93007292
As biased against the movies as I am - yeah. Book!Laurie has a swimsuit with some mesh overtop.

>>93007570
>Overall, I don't think it would register with a general audience positively or negatively
That makes me upset, but I'll get over it. Something about the old-school layout fascinates me. And I tend to agree with Moore's thoughts that while a set layout can be limiting, that limitation will push me to think much more creatively about how to setup the scenes. It also gives me a sense of structure so at the very minimum I know exactly how many panels I can jam in a page before I start overloading it.

>>93007243
Omega Men got a decent amount of praise for good use of the 9-grid

>>93006004

Not to derail too much, but please explain the Snape line. Speaking as a casual Potter fan who read the books growing up, don't people respect Snape because he basically spends the entire series being a complete hardass to the son of his high school bully but secretly helping behind the scenes as a deep cover double agent, sacrificing his agency, protecting Malfoy from getting blood on his hands for killing Dumbledore, and eventually giving up his life all for the sake of an unrequited love that he'll never have?

Whereas with Rorschach he's the only character in Watchman who has the moral compass to call Veight on his defeatist bullshit despite all of his very real flaws and dies defending his morality from the people he trusted and loved as his friends for years?

>>93003366
>>93004814

You could also watch the motion comic, it's for free and it's on youtube, the only problem i have with it is the narrator doing the voices of female characters, but aside from that, it's pretty solid. It has everything the actual comic has and has a top notch OST.

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>>93007515
>asking me why I like Rorschach

You just unleashed close to a decade's worth of concentrated autism.

Literally everything. Everything about that horrible man hurts me. I love him.

Rorschach's strength as a character lies in how his virtues are warped by his vices, and how those vices were never entirely his fault.

There's a lot to admire in Rorschach. Regardless of your opinion on his behaviour, he thinks he's doing the right thing.

How often have you acknowledged that something was the correct course of action, but looked down and whispered no because it was inconvenient? I have done it a lot, I suspect you have, too.

Rorschach, for the most part, doesn't. He thinks that murdering serial rapists is right, and the man sacrifices all chance at a happy or normal life to do what he thinks is right.

>Rorschach is walking home
>looks into a window
>and sees a happy couple kissing behind shear blinds
>three panels dedicated to his staring up at them
>alone in the rain

>Kovacs had friends.
>not Rorschach.

>Those were good times, Rorschach!

A lot of people have compared Rorschach's behavior to Kantian ethics or whatever, but that's not really the point. He was never logical. He was never motivated by philosophical musings (despite how classical Nietzsche his post-Grice rant is). Rorschach has always been motivated by an emotional connection to victimhood.

>didn't like it.
>personal reasons

>ashamed for humanity
>Took the remains of her discarded dress and made a face I could look at in the mirror

Someone who gives that much of a fuck is hard not to admire.

>because we are compelled
>cannot look away

continued because you fucking asked for it

>>93008191
Rorschach is the epitome of, "I'll sleep when I'm dead". The dude is a relentless weapon of justice that won't back down, even when standing face to face with a god. He knew Manhattan could decimate him with a twitch of his pinky, but his devotion to his morals and the belief in "justice" prevented him from backing down and he inevitably paid the price for it.
>Never compromise. Not even in the face of armageddon."
>True that man. True that.

>>93008191
>>93008329
Scene for reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOSVAHXF4oI

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>>93008191
Rorschach is literally the only one that had any relationship to the victim, who really cared.

Jon didn't care. Daniel was motivated by a love for adventure and classical chivalry (which Adrian calls him out on, describing him as "schoolboy"), but never felt victimhood in his heart. Laurie was stage-mom'ed into her career. The Comedian used nihilism as a cover for his own violent impulses. Adrian AT BEST viewed people as means to a better end, and at worst saw them as tools for his world conquest.

Walter Joseph Kovacs was the only one of them born into poverty, and into a truly abusive upbringing. He's the only one who has anything in common with the civilians they were commissioned with protecting. There's a reason why Daniel (by his own admission) goes after purse snatchers and Rorschach goes for the people who steal little girls.

At the same time, he's an incredibly shitty person. He's a tremendous hypocrite. He's bigoted, noticeably towards homosexuals and women. He thinks he has the moral right to be judge, jury, and executioner.

And part of this isn't really Walter's fault. His hatred of women is not the same petty desire to hurt or possess that the Comedian had. His hatred of women stems from a deep anxiety rooted in the severe physical and what I often speculated was sexual abuse of his mother. That doesn't justify it, but it puts him in context.

Rorschach's a great character because he possessed that real heroic impulse the type of magical romance you're promised when you're a kid but it's perverted. Part of this is his fault, and part of it is just the world we live in. That's the tragedy of his character and why I feel for the reactionary, horrible, miserable, rape-apologizing, hostile, mean-spirited prick so goddamn much.

TLDR: I'm a huge autistic faggot.

>>93008489
>I'm a huge autistic faggot.
I've seen much much worse. You bring up some going points that make me realize Rorschach was significantly more complicated than I had previously given him credit for. Given his entire upbringing he could have ended up a true monster, but instead he channeled it into....this.

>>93005384
The nite owl one is the only one I read a little

Rorschach makes a joke about nite owl having a boner

10/10

>>93008489
>rape-apologizing
I thought he hunter rapists down?

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>>93007925
>asking me to explain Snape

Fuck. This is just hitting all my sperg nerves.

Rorschach and Snape are similar, but my point was how people like them for the wrong reasons.

A lot of Rorschach fans (ex. Zach Snyder) like him because he's a super cool badass. Even though Rorschach's behavior is really grotesque and terrifying.

>he drowns a fucking midget in a toilet you guys

A lot of Snape fans like him because "muh always", which resulted in many Tumblrinas hating him bc "muh nice guy".

>book!Snape is way more interested than either of those views


TLDR: I am incredibly autistic.

>>93008686

his position on Comedian trying to rape Silk Specter was that it was something Nite Owl made up to sell books IIRC

>>93008686
He's referring to how Rorschach sort of dismissed Laurie's concerns for what Edward was reported to have done to her mother in Hollis' book.
The funny thing is, he was half correct as we later learn. The Comedian was still an abhorrent person but his thing with Sally, well that turned out to be another story in the end.

>>93008741
>tfw it takes 6 policemen to stop the harmless "the end is nigh" sign hobo
>baka police brutality at it's finest

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>>93008660
>making boner jokes
I'm so fucking angry. Post this, please.

>>93008686
As I said, the guy is fueled by emotions, not logic.

Logically a guy that murders rapists should hate rape - except he handwaves the Comedian's violent assault of Sally as a moral lapse because muh daddy issues.

>>93006720
It's not bad but it's too close to the Dark Knight Batman. Also it screams more "badass" than "mid life crisis".
>>93007292
True.

>>93009009

Why would his costume scream mid life crisis? That's not when he made it.

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>>93009078
Good point. Still, when he wears it in the book he's overweight, and the whole thing looks goofy. It's spandex, doesn't hide his gut. The mask if weird too. In the movie the rubber makes him look built, the mask is too tacticool.

>>93008741

That kind of explains it anon. I know many like Rorschach because of a perceived badassery; whatever is in Rorschach is similar to whatever is in Batman that resonates with the casual viewer of today, which is likely due to the DNA of Rorschach (analogous to the Question who is himself similar to Batman)

As I said I'm not familiar with the Potter fanbase and thus don't understand the casual's outlook when it comes to Snape.

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>>93008827
I disagree that Rorschach was "correct" about Eddie because Ror thought the man was a hero. He wasn't. Eddie feeling sort of lonely after abandoning his child and abusing the woman he loved isn't proof he was a good person - just proof he was a bad person who was too stupid to appreciate that until it was too late. Eddie being horrified by a plan to murder millions isn't the same as being a good person in my book - that's baseline morality.

What I got from that whole scene is that Rorschach is a 40 year old man crying out for mommy and daddy. He projects his parental issues onto everything (ex. his stance on the atom bomb is entirely motivated by his belief his dad liked Truman).

Walter Kovacs was abused by his prostitute mother. Therefore, all sexually promiscuous women are disgusting evil bitch skanks. Therefore, Sally Jupiter is awful and disgusting and a bloated aging whore and she probably made the whole thing up!!!!!

Walter Kovacs grew up romanticizing a man he never knew to console himself over his embarrassment of a mother, so obviously any man who fits the projected image of daddy is the best guy ever.

>writes an essay as a kid about how his dad was probably a WW2 hero
>ends up justifying the disgusting moral failings of a macho war hero manly man

Gee whiz, I wonder why he did that.

>it's especially sad when you consider that Walter was conceived in 1944
>before the end of the war
>Walter's dad was in America and not overseas
>he wasn't a fucking war hero
>he was some draft dodging creep who fucking a cheap whore in the Bronx

The ride never ends with Ror.

>>93008941
>he dindu nuffin!

He totally asked for it.
>makes fun of cops
>literally leaves a rapists body in front of the police station
>essentially saying "fuck you, I can do it better than all of you guys"
>wonders why the cops pulverize his ass

I'm surprised he wasn't kill.

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>>93009191
>Rorschach is basically a Batman-by-any-other-name

Yep. Which is why Snyder's cinematography (and his whole handling of the Blaire Roche case) will never cease to vaguely annoy me.

>>93009251
>He totally asked for it.
>>makes fun of cops
>>literally leaves a rapists body in front of the police station
>>essentially saying "fuck you, I can do it better than all of you guys"
>>wonders why the cops pulverize his ass

considering Rorschach does a ton of actually illegal stuff it's strange that you think him disrespecting cops is a good example of him asking for it. What a warped perspective you must have.

>>93009251
>I disagree that Rorschach was "correct" about Eddie because Ror thought the man was a hero
I don't mean to suggest that Rorschach was right in believing nothing happened, nor that nothing happened.
Walter's views were peppered with bias obviously, it's hard to put in words but what I mean is more that we later see Sally herself dismiss the incident yes I know the victim can't always be trusted to know what trauma has befallen them but still, so while Laurie was outraged and berating Rorschach for even daring to have such views she comes to find her own mother agrees with Rorschach regardless of what actually happened.

To Sally Eddie was still a charming figure, and she was not pleased with the contents of Mason's book getting out.

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>>93009589
I was joking?

>>93009611
I sort of get what you're saying, but I still disagree. I agree that she wouldn't have liked the book's publication (how weird did it make that party we see Sally throwing with little Laurie?), but I don't think that makes Ror right. He knew absolutely nothing about Sally and Eddie's relationship. Laurie was their kid and she barely managed to string it together in her thirties.

>>93009454
What did Snyder do differently? Haven't seen the movie.

>>93005237
Before watchmen ranking
>God tier
Minutemen
Silk spectre
Ozymandias

The rest of them suck

>>93009928
I hate Ozymandias, so even if the comic is good, I highly doubt I'd manage to read it. Silk Spectre is not one of my fav, but at least tolerable.

>>93008686
He saw silk spectre I as a bitch and dismissed comedian attempted rape of her as a moral lapse because he admired him too much

>>92994684
watchmen sucks, bro

>>93010269
fuck off, "bro"

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>>93009877
I've already longposted profusely in this thread, but basically my problem with Snyder is that the movie feels like a Wikipedia summary. All the parts are there, but something is off.

If reduced to it's narrative elements, Watchmen is an alright comic. It's strength was always in it's details.

This is often attributed to it's exploitation of the uniqueness aspects of the comic book format. Some argue this makes Watchmen "unadaptable", which I don't agree with, since I feel a competent director could use film's unique attributes to explore the story, but whatever.

Snyder's Watchmen feels like an action movie. The slow-mo followed by speeding up, the grimdark desaturated colour palette, etc. are all classic elements of an action movie.

The more egregious example is how Snyder handles
>guess who?
Rorschach.

Snyder took everything sad and pathetic about Walter Kovacs and replaced it with AWESOME BADASS SLOW MO ACTION AND ONE LINERS.

>young Walter's bullies make a sexual comment before trying to pull down his pants
>in a scene that subtly implies Walter was sexually abused?
>nope, better get rid of that, have him freak out over the "whore son" comment
>because if the main male character is a rape victim, teenaged boys couldn't identify with him

>scene were Rorschach has a complete emotional meltdown after the murder of a child
>better add some lame one liner about dogs getting put down
>LOL ISN'T IT AWESOME WHEN PEDOPHILES DIE WOW RORSCHACH IS SO COOL

There are some other flaws (like that god awful soundtrack), but it's more about the presentation that I care about.

There are parts of the movie that are really cool. I like some of the special features. Some shots are genuinely really nice. The casting is very hit or miss, but when it hits, it fucking hits. The opening is famous for a reason (although the song fucking repeats and no one else seems to care but me), it's genuinely really fun.

>>93009928
ozy had good art but sucked. Only really good ones were Minutemen and Silky

>>93006720
I would fuck him in thay suit, them again I also wanted to fuck Dan in the comics fat and all.

His archenemy was the Twilight Lady for awhile so he probably was into kinky stuff.

>>93010368
i thought the actor they got to play rorschach was perfect.

>>93011296
Besides Jonah is Spider-man, Jackie Earle Haley as Rorschach is the perfect casting of any comic book character

>>93008489
He hates women displaying their sexuality moreso than the women themselves but as long as he didn't perceive them as whores he was polite to them.

Laurie for example he tells her he's happy to see her back in her costume even if he never liked it (although they changed it in the movie to him being snappy at her and at Dan for suiting up and being back as Nite Owl because of her).

>>92994684

>tfw I liked some Before Watchmen stories

>>93008660
Post boner joke.

>>93011158
He was really good looking in that suit when his hair was a bit disheveled and he wasn't wearing his nerd glasses.

Watchmen is a great comic but the movie, prequels, every attempt at a spinoff sucked.