What did Spencer mean by this?

>>92955072

Some dumb bullshit probably, who gives a shit.

Obviously the only rational choice in this situation is to go evil and beat the shit out of the female competition

>>92955072
He's saying the 90s Bad Girl character type isn't popular anymore so the characters that fit into that mold either have to adapt to current trends or risk fading into limbo. That characters like "Captain Marvel" and "Thor (Jane Foster)" are the popular types of female superheroes these days, but it comes at the expense of many female characters that used to be popular but are no longer in vogue.

>>92956102
>That characters like "Captain Marvel" and "Thor (Jane Foster)" are the popular types of female superheroes these days, but it comes at the expense of many female characters that used to be popular but are no longer in vogue.

Marvel is probably too dense to put this and crumbling sales together and reach some form of conclusion

I blame the dumb new fans who don't learn stuff prior to Civil War.

>>92956397
This.

>90s bad girls are done
>Harley Quinn is the most popular female comic book character

So is he deluded or dumb?

>>92960410
Yeah but hasn't Quinn gone from a Femme Fatale Bad Girl Minion to kind of a Quirky Lol-Random Anti-Hero?

>>92961211
She still does "bad girl" stuff. Even then, the mainstream only pays attention to the movies and she isn't a hoity toity good girl for sure.

Deluded Marvel at work.

>>92955072
Feminism doesn't empowered sexy women and forces them to be sluts?

But this bitch dated Cap and she's hotter than Sharon, she should hit him up again.

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>>92955072

I hate how nowadays everything has to be practical and completely covering. Morrison warned about this when he said nobody cares about who pumps air into the batmobile. When you have people trying to rationalize capes you suck all the fun out as writers start limiting what they can do because it needs to make sense in a way.

This was the same shit with Batgirl when she got her "practical" costume that was just a jacket and pants.

>>92956102
>but it comes at the expense of many female characters that used to be popular but are no longer in vogue.
Like who? Not trying to start shit, genuinely curious.

>>92956102
>He's saying the 90s Bad Girl character type isn't popular anymore
Harley Quinn and Catwoman both say hi.

>>92961211
Yes but she does so in Booty shorts and kills people while selling twice that of Captain Marvel.

>>92962480
drives me nuts when female cape outfits like WW's are called too revealing and impractical when female gymnasts wear the same thing

>>92962751
Catwoman is hardly at the peak of her popularity, doesn't even has an ongoing right now.
So pretty much just Harley, and she is a wacky anti-hero now, and is a different kind of bad-girl.

>>92955072
I never liked Spencer before this run but damn his stock with me just keeps going up. He's going to fuck everybody over, It's what he does. He just does not wright a story anybody is happy with and it's beautiful. Do you think anyone at marvel even considered this to be a critique?

>>92955072
He wants to recreate Gruenwald's run, but realizes deep down he'll never really recapture that.

I think the oddest thing about being an adult reading comics in the modern age is being able to spot when the writer is wallowing in self pity openly on the page. I appreciate that he's TRYING... but he always just falls shorts and shoots his own story in the foot. Almost every story of his I've read seems to be 70% interesting, then he does something that destroys the pace or betrays a character motivation because the plot demands it.

>>92963475
The problem is that Gruenwald's run had politics but it wasn't political in that it remained fairly neutral and had villains that represented both the left and right as well as other societal things (Madcap being a representation of nihilistic youth for example).

Spencer's run is pretty much a giant polemic attacking evil conservatives/Republicans. I think there was that social justice group or something that probably got in there more because he likely associates those types with Bernie (who, of course, somehow caused Hillary to lose) than anything else.

>>92955072
>the women wear costumes they can actually breath in
>proceeds to use butch marvel and whor as examples
wut?

the fuck is this tumblr nosed reindeer talking about?

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>>92961339
That's not really what "bad girl" is referring to, anon. It's not literally "evil girl" or "villainous girl." It's that cheesecakey femme fatal that was all the rage in the 90s. Characters like Black Cat, Silver Sable or Domino. Which is still a relatively popular archetype, but you don't see them getting ongoings for the most part.

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>>92962609
>Domino
>Silver Sable
>Elektra
>Witchblade
>Lady Death
>Vampirella
>Red Sonja
>pretty much every comic with a female protagonist that Image put out in the 90s

I mean, they still have their fans, sure, but you really don't see that many comics these days touting half-naked chicks with swords and guns going all supernatural punisher outside of the occasional Zenoscope comic.

>>92963602
The only thing Spencer hates more than conservatives is millenials.

>>92964292
Yeah comics suck now.

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>>92964292
Ironically, among one of Bendis' first works was a one-shot bad girls comic called Angels of Destruction. It was done for Malibu before they were bought out by Marvel.

>>92963066
You seem to be implying that a lack of bad girl solo books means that their popularity is low. But even at the height of bad girl popularity, bad girls didn't really have their own solo titles. They mostly just appeared as villains or supporting cast characters.

>>92964153
Harley may differ slightly from traditional bad girl template, but she's still all about cheesecake and fatal attraction. The comedic element to her stories doesn't change that. My point is, don't pretend to know about a character if you haven't read their books.

>>92964401
>that cover
OK, yeah, I can maybe see where the OP is coming from.

>>92955072

>tumblr nose

>>92955072
Nick Spencer is making the same mistake too many writers make.
Just because a character isn't popular out of universe, doesn't mean that in-universe they have to be total losers who have spent all their time off-screen struggling instead of doing coll stuff.

>>92964776
The irony is Cap Marvel is unpopular outside universe.

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>>92955072
>Thor's a woman

NO, HE ISN'T. JANE IS NOT FUCKING THOR

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>92963602
I guess that's the core of his problem: he's too caught up in his on ideas to let the characters have theirs. In various issues I looked at, I can tell you exact moments he loses me as a reader, and it always has to do with characters suddenly doing something out of character. Take Rhodey's funeral in the Sam Wilson book, the whole "we're his FAMILY" thing was insanely stupid, a betrayal of a character that didn't really interact with most of the other black heroes in the room, because Rhodey wasn't JUST "a black superhero". He was a real, fully developed character, and it's completely idiotic that Tony would miss Rhodey's funeral EVER (much less then go to Banner's funeral). But, let's chalk that up to "Civil War 2 is fucking stupid" and let him off the hook for now.
There is another moment in the Sam Wilson book where John Walker appears and the asshats that make the new Americops are trying to talk him into taking the shield away from Sam. John first tells them no, but then changes his mind when he sees Sam fighting Americops. Why? Why would John Walker, who returned the shield to Steve after he was manipulated by the Red Skull (who was a BUSINESSMAN, just like these asshats, at the time) ever just jump at something like this? He trusts Steve, so he'd trust his judgement in giving Sam the shield. It just doesn't make sense that he'd go and attack Sam with such little provocation. And it's because Spencer knew where he wanted the plot to go, and failed to work that in a way that flowed with the characters. He SHOULD be going with the flow of the characters, and making a plot that works along with them.

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>>92963602
There was also this guy.
And USAgent was portrayed quite well. He wasn't a right-wing nutjob, but a man who disagreed with Sam Wilson and thought that only Steve Rogers is worthy of the shield.

>>92962480
>Morrison warned about this when he said nobody cares about who pumps air into the batmobile.

And yet he was the same one who made the X-Men ditch their costumes and said Wolverine's mask made no sense.

>>92964401

Ah yes, Bendis' secret shame. He will actively apologize for having written it.

>>92963038
gymnasts don't usually fight gods.

>>92965255
To be fair, most people don't no matter their profession.

>>92965213
For real? Out of his entire career, THAT'S the one comic he expresses remorse over? I don't know whether to believe him or consider it an instant classic.

>>92965459
>For real? Out of his entire career, THAT'S the one comic he expresses remorse over? I don't know whether to believe him or consider it an instant classic.

I don't have it but he actually talked about it. Reluctantly. Then someone storytimed it.

>>92965213
Really? What about the really early one about the psychic guy that portrays all women as worthless bitches?

>>92965513

No idea. He was just ashamed of this comic. Art was pretty good.

>>92965532
Maybe he pretends the psychic guy one didn't exist. It was indie IIRC and probably his first published one.

>>92956102
>popular types of female superheroes these days
But they aren't.
Sale don't lie.

>>92955072
She was fucking with Sam because Serpent Society forced her to.

>>92962480
>This was the same shit with Batgirl when she got her "practical" costume that was just a jacket and pants.
I remember when the same thing happened to Wonder Woman.

>>92963602
Like, Gruenwald would base his villains around things, Superia = Feminism, Serpent Society = Labor Unions, but he didn't try to make it super serious. Hell, Superia's plan one arc was to turn Cap into a woman. It was absurd, and not like "Now character with real world politics plans to shoot Cap"

>>92962480
Writers and fans set themselves up for this path. When you make every female character impractical and dress like a stripper, you're going to get an equally loud push eventually to have it be more realistic.

But eventually what was once popular will return.

>>92963711
There is something hilarious about the inference that Carol's head to toe, tightly collared leather ensemble breathes.

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>>92962480
It's a double edged sword really. Sometimes it lands right like Psylocke's ninja outfit. Not a big fan of WW's classic outfit, I prefer her more warrior-like variations. But then you have Carol Danvers, who was given a modest outfit but they went the extra mile with a dyke haircut and zero feminine proportions. She really is a trans Steve Rogers. Nevermind her shitty stories, the character is just unappealing to look at. Reminds me when Gail Simone got rid of Red Sonja's bikini. Way to miss the point about a pulpy book. After that she looked like your average Scottish fantasy warrior. Bible thumpers were at least mocked and scorned when they complained about this stuff. But now it has become the norm. It's tiring.

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>>92956102
no one's reading Janethor though. Marvel keeps printing it because they're hellbent on forcing it.

Maybe more people are reading Carol's book, I don't know, but I can guarantee you that Kamala outsells both put together and she's not a character that's 'taken seriously', she's a character who's fun.

The Janethor thing really bugs me too. Jane Foster becoming Thor could have been a really cool storyline idea but they wasted the potential on having her punch D-list villains for muh soggy knee while spouting incredibly stilted and poorly written dialogue.

>>92967380
Nope, Jane outsells both. Carol's book was cancelled like 5 times and Kamala has been stuck in the 20k figure since CW2.

>>92967260
>Bible thumpers were at least mocked and scorned when they complained about this stuff. But now it has become the norm. It's tiring.
I have a strong suspicion that the personality type of your average SJW is exactly the same as the kind of person who would have been a bible thumper a few decades ago. Humans don't change that much, they just find new justifications for their actions.

>>92964921
Yep.

Gruenwald put the story before the politics. Not the other way around.

>>92964921
Not to mention it is ironically very racist to lump all the black characters together and be best friends with eachother. And Marveldrones like those on CBR praise it as progressive. Fucking mind boggling.

>>92966317
>Serpent Society = Labor Unions
Always so progressive, Marvel.

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>>92967856
>>92966317
Ironically, Spencer then turned the Serpent Society into a bunch of evil corporate stooges that are explicitly against regulations and any interference in business, and would thus presumably be against unions.
Also, King Cobra seemingly relinquised leadership to Viper without a fight. And none of the members of the Serpent Society other than Viper and Diamondback ever display any personality or

>>92967260
> Bible thumpers were at least mocked and scorned when they complained about this stuff.
This is honestly bothering me.
I mean, are there any mainstream media which actually make fun of SJW's? They're a goldmine of laughs, yet I haven't heard of any Trigglypuff parodies or whatever appearing on major TV shows.

>>92967678
What bugged me even more was that Rhodey's family wasn't given any prominence. You know who remembered them? FUCKING AL EWING!

>>92968046
>Ironically, Spencer then saved the Serpent Society
FTFY

>>92964921
You didn't read USAgent arc? Hydra Steve ASKED John to take shield from Sam.