Superman vs. Wonder Woman

Superman has strength
Wonder Woman has strength and skill

>>92945960
>VS-fagging
>giving even the slight fraction of a shit about power levels
You are the cancer killing storytelling as a whole. Kill yourself at once, filth.

>>92946024
I could buy it but it only matters if Supes isn't too durable for her to hurt him.

Wondy will have to have her weapons to decisively defeat Clark. Wondy's greatest showing would be in Sacrifice where she beat Superman who was out for blood. But that Supes saw her as Doomsday so he kept getting surprised by Wondy's tactics.

Id put it at Supes favor 6/10

>>92946035
I know what you mean. I don't care too much about power levels, but it is sometimes important in the story when characters are fighting since you should typically be expecting a certain outcome, and then the story can either fulfill or subvert your expectations

Like here, I thought Superman was the best of the JL in fighting (disregarding MM since he's not in it now), but Wonder Woman seems to be the best.

>>92946078
So if Diana was fighting Clark, and both were in a street clothes with no weapons or gadgets, Clark would win decisively?

>man
>woman
Really makes me think.

>>92946035
Lol, fuck off dude. This kind of shitpost is a telltale sign of someone who got their shit caved in during a Who Would Win discussion.

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>>92946024
You really think Superman is unskilled?

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She was buffed a lot and her base level and super saiyan mode are stronger than Superman's even if he has a much higher ceiling. Her weapons can also subdue and damage him

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>>92945960
Yeah sure, she can take him. Riiiight.

>>92946547
Compred to wonder woman he is a novice

>muh powerleves
I'm sure reddit would love to have this discussion with you, so how about you go back there?

>>92946547
I don't think he was trained from childhood in battle. Supes is a good fighter, but he relies on tanking stuff way more then skill.

>>92946602
Geez man just relax, I didn't even complain or anything, it was just a question

>>92946602
>reddit
>/co/ has never ever had vs threads
The fuck?

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>>92946148
He'd win anyway, he's outrageously stronger, faster and tougher than she is. She can block a laser with her bracelets sure, but Superman can do this. Are little bitty bits of metal going to block all that, somehow? I don't think so.

>>92945960
As always depends of the writer and what they want to do with the characters.
Usually they need WW to be able to win or make a stand still against Supes, so she does.
If you go only by logic and "power levels" it should be an easy victory for Superman.

>>92946652
Superman can do the Kamehameha?

>>92946580
>>92946630
And compared to Superman she's moving in slow motion, no matter the skill difference she's just too slow, too weak an too fragile. What good is a magic weapon when he can casually avoid it? Remember Peter vs Flash in the first Raimi movie? Same thing.

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Magic Sword

>>92946686
That's heat vision. He can hit literally anything he can see. Look out a window. Everything out to the edges of your peripheral vision could be hit with the same blast, all at once.

>>92946664
This.

>>92945960
IDK about other matchups, but if non-bulletproof Wonder Woman is fighting, she should be killed pretty quickly because Superman can just push his pinky finger into her brain

>>92946710
>Injustice

>>92946650
>/co/ has never ever had vs threads
There are plenty shit thread made on /co/ regularly, that doesn't mean we encourage people to keep making.
Also Superman vs. Anyone has been done death, if are interested what /co/ thinks just check the archive,

>>92946710
>Injustice
Kek

>>92946664
You assume a vs comparison is being done in the framework of a story...why?

>>92946708
Ummm, you do know that Wondy is superhuman right? She is fast and when she hits it hurts even kryptonians. Lets not forget that she has taken hits from some of DC's heaviest hitters and gave it right back.

>>92946777
Maybe you should just, I don't know, fuck off? If this thread is hurting you somehow then file a complaint with Hiroshimoot.

>>92946777
*making them

>>92946833
Or maybe you should learn to use the archive and stop shitting the board.

>>92945960
Superman is the guy that everybody claims to be better than, because that's the only way insecure fans can feel alright.

Batman HAS to be smarter
Flash HAS to be faster
Wonder Woman HAS to be better at fighting
etc
etc

>>92946777
Here I will save them trouble

>Superman Strongest there is
>Nah uh
>Uh-Huh
>Nah-uh
>Uh-huh
ETC, ETC till the end of time

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>>92946035
I wonder who's behind this post.

>>92946890
You're the one shitting up the board by shitposting. Perhaps lead by example if you care about posting quality.

>>92946951
Wondy wins
/thread

>>92946899
>Batman HAS to be smarter
>Flash HAS to be faster
>Wonder Woman HAS to be better at fighting
Why do you have a problem with this? Superman is 9/10 in all categories so why is it a problem that a character can be 10/10 in just one?

>>92946899
Supes is fast, smart, and skilled, but his main thing is strength. I mean i know he is the ultimate Mary Sue but he needs at least a few things were there are people better than him, or whats the point of other heroes

>>92946960
>Perhaps lead by example if you care about posting quality.
I do by actually contributing to threads that are not utter shit, no the case here.

All this is is a bunch of insecure Supermanfags desperately trying to convince themselves that he would win.

Lets face it Superman maybe stronger but it isn't by a wide margin and Wonder woman is a better fighter and she actually knows how fist work not to mention all her magical gear she can blind him with her tiara and her lasso is literally unbreakable come on guys the only way Superman wins is by convenient "Le I Was Holding Back Nonsense"

Why is it that everyone wants their fan favorite to compare to Superman? Is it because everyone knows of his absurd amount of power?
see
>>92946899

It speaks volumes about Supes when he is the fucking standard every other capeshit character builds around.

>THIS is the apex, how do we variant it
>give it weapons, a warrior background and make it female
>watch autists debate it for fucking decades

>>92946996
I actually don't.

It just gets annoying when people think that they are any less of a hero if they aren't.

I don't think less of Superman for being inferior to Martian Manhunter and Dr. Fate in every single power.

Then again, some Superman newbies are pretty insecure too

>>92946831
It might hurt if a ten year old kicks you in the shins too, it doesn't mean they're going to win a fight. Wonder Woman does well because plot, looking at the things both characters have actually done, Superman could kill her in a second. He could snipe her with heat vision from Mars. Wonder Woman has an edge in martial skill, but against superman martial skill only matters WHEN HE ALLOWS IT TO.

>>92947115
>Then again, some Superman newbies are pretty insecure too
Superman fans are some of the most insecure people to have ever exist fuckers bitch about everything and everything is "Le Batman's fault" I wonder how long this thread will go until it becomes Batman's fault.

>>92947089
See >>92947128

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>>92947075
You clearly don't. If you really think this thread is so shit then you're just another maggot crawling in the pile.

>>92947128
>but against superman martial skill only matters WHEN HE ALLOWS IT TO.
Classic Superman faggotry here boys

>>92947018
>but his main thing is strength.
nice b8

>>92947175
See it for what more bullshit?

>>92945960
Depends if beating WW will save the day. If so, then yes.

>>92947165
Kek like Batmanfags and Gokufags are any better

Every fandom is cancer, plain and simple

>>92947198
>>92947233
Your butthurt is showing. Superman doesn't have to fight her up close. He doesn't have to fight anyone up close. He never has to get in range of her weapons, and she has no way of finding him if he doesn't want to be found. Like I said, heat vision, from Mars. Cold breath. He can use Flash's phasing trick to just "lol no" everything she tries to o, even if he chose to be in reach for her to try. No one with a brain would think Wonder Woman actually has a chance.

>Superfag
>insecure
Would you like a list of people in DC that I think could challenge or beat him? It's a long list. Wonder Woman's not on it.

>>92947177
>You clearly don't.
This is Anonymous board you idiot, you have no way of knowing my posting habits.

>If you really think this thread is so shit then you're just another maggot crawling in the pile.
I have this thread on sage, and i'm still hoping it will die, but in the mean i will just reiterate how much vs. threads suck.

>>92947209
Really?

Is it making glasses be the perfect disguise then

>>92947394
>you have no way of knowing my posting habits.
You've habitually posted in this thread being a big ol' manbaby. That's all I need to know.

>>92947430
Well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIaF0QKtY0c

>>92947298
>You are just as bad as me so its alright
Fuck you anon don't change the topic being the slimmest kid at fat camp isn't a cause to celebrate you fags have use this argument against everything you can't explain
Why is Batman and Wonder woman bad?>Le Trinity Shipping
Why are Superman fans so awful?>Le All Fandom are Bad
Why is X Ship Bad?>Le All Shipping is Bad

FUCK YOU GUYS

>>92947128
>Wonder Woman does well because plot

Its a fictional story, anyone does anything its because of plot.

>>92947343
>Would you like a list of people in DC that I think could challenge or beat him?

How bout a list of people who have actually beat him, its a short list but guess what, Wondy's on it.

>>92947394
>>92947449

Will both of you faggots shut the fuck up? You're both shitposting. Only reply I'm going to give, I'm not stooping to this level.

>>92947449
>I don't know what habitually is
You can't habitually post in a thread that has only existed for just an hour.
Also this maybe come as shocker but some people have the incredible ability of posting in more than one thread at once.

>>92947343
Superman can't fight her up-close is what you meant to say and Diana is immune to heat and cold so that wont work and I don't know if you know this but she can fly too you have to pull out some bullshit to even give Superman a fighting chance you are right no one with brain would give superman the win over Diana she is clearly Superior in the ways that count.

>>92947676

>immune to heat and cold

Source? Never heard of this before. Is she immune to temperatures hotter than the sun? Can she survive in vacuum?

>>92945960
If superman wasn't holding back and ready to kill, he'd just fry her brain.

>>92947298
They might be, but in /co/ Superfags reign supreme as the whiniest, most insecure fanbase there around.

>>92948214
t. obvious batfaggot

Look at all the people replying to this stupid bait thread.

Which Superman?

>>92947542
>Wondy's on it.
No, she's not.

>>92947676
>can't fight her up close
Really? >>92946570

>>92947527
>Superman fans are the worst
>Other fans are just as bad
>reeeeeeeeee don't change the subject
lol the insecurity just proves my point

>>92948214
>Superfags are the worst on /co/
sure anon

keep dreaming

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Seriously, guys? Seriously?

I love Wonder Woman and this is why i say it: no, she would never beat Superman. You want to know why? Because DC would never show Superman being weaker than any other character.

The few times they show a fight between to capitalize on the whole GRRR Powa thing, they always show Wonder Woman struggling as fuck against Superman and praying that he can return to his senses because he's the most important man in her life and the most important and beloved hero in the world. It always plays like that. DC always show Superman as being stronger and more important than her.

Fuck, she's not even allowed to be her nice pacifist self when interacting with Superman, because only Superman can be shown as the wholesome and charming character in every story he's feature. So they have her become a cunt for his sake.

Take the Superman/Wonder Woman comic. You'd think that in their attempt to sell the pairing they'd show Wonder Woman as a nice girlfriend material for Superman and a heroine that can stand equal to him in everything, right? That's the idea, right? Wrong. She was always shown as a cunt that needed to be rescued and protected by him.

So you really think they'd allow Wonder Woman to beat his ass 100% clean? No. It'll never happen. She will always struggle against him, go on and on about how's the most powerful hero and beautiful man in the world, and then have him come to his senses by appealing to his good and heroic side.

Not even Martian Manhunter and the Flash are able to outsmart, outskill or outfight Superman. Superman simple IS.

>>92947430
flying, nigga

Why else do you think the cape is one of the best trademarks of the character

>>92948411
Do you even read comics bro? WW has beaten him multiple times but I'll accept the morality part.

Even Superman has admitted that MM might be better than him and Flash beats him all the time.

>>92948275
k

>>92948411
>Take the Superman/Wonder Woman comic. You'd think that in their attempt to sell the pairing they'd show Wonder Woman as a nice girlfriend material for Superman and a heroine that can stand equal to him in everything, right? That's the idea, right? Wrong. She was always shown as a cunt that needed to be rescued and protected by him.
I hate Sm/WW and all, but my concern is the opposite

first arc had Wonder Woman save Superman from Zod and Faora

>>92948532

Since when Wonder Woman won against him clean cut? There is always some bullshit.

In their right after Our Worlds at War she was getting wrecked and only "won" by making him remember how important he was to her and the world.
In their pre-Crisis fight she was getting wrecked and only "won" by killing Maxwell Lord freeing Superman from his control.
In the Injustice comics you had Hal saying that Superman was losing to her because he didn't cared anymore about anything and the fight was stopped by Sinestro.

She never win against him. She never will.

Flash also never won against Superman. Sure, there's that whole "Those were for charity, Clark", but any other moment Superman outclass the Flash.

I love that you guys act like power levels are consistant and it doesn't depend on the writer I mean, hell in Injustice 2 Batman beat up wonder woman, TIED HER UP WITH HER OWN FUCKING LASSO and then defeated superman.

>>92947715
Blessing of Hestia, the goddess of the Hearth for the fire resistance. Most writers forget about it. It's also what lets her burn people with the lasso.

>>92948602

>first arc had Wonder Woman save Superman from Zod and Faora

First arc also had Superman wrecking Wonder Woman's main baddie at the time, had Wonder Woman getting wrecked by Doomsday and being saved by Superman, had her helping Superman against Zod and Faora yes but get wrecked by them at the same time, had Superman protecting her with his indestructible cape and body so both could both survive the thermo explosion, and many other instances where Superman was shown as the strong and protective boyfriend.

>>92945960
Usually Wonder Woman is portrayed to be more skilled in combat, but Superman has usually been far stronger than her.

Best example I can think of is For the Man Who Has Everything.

>>92948228
>Implying I read capeshit

>>92948410
But it's true, they go full reeeee whenever it's implied he could lose to any character, or a writer inteprets him in any way that's different than the one in their heads, they circlejerk constantly and make "batman getting btfo" threads... when was the last time you even saw a batfag thread?

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It's about popularity. The only who can beat Superman is Batman.

>>92948671
Super Drugs are some crazy shit, bruh.

Wonder Woman's limits are defined by the greek pantheon of gods, even as the goddess of war.

Superman has no limits period. Wonder Woman can never beat Superman in any fight.

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>>92948852
>doesn't read capeshit
>comes to a capeshit thread
insufferable faggot alert

>>92948930
being an insufferable faggot doesn't make me any less right, anon.

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>>92948790
Here we go.
>Wondie messes up her hand punching Mongul
>Supes later gives Mongul the beat down of his life

Also just wanna grow out there that Mongul is underrated. His son sucked though.

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>>92946899
>the current state of superman

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>>92948959
Never said you weren't right; I'm sure you are a faggot, faggot who is also insufferable. Now go read saga and flick your manbean sissy

>>92946899
>Batman HAS to be smarter
Batman is not smarter than Superman. He just usually more creative. Superman is like a Super computer and way beyond human levels of intelligence. Batman however thinks outside the box.

Wondyfag here again. Here's another thing people forget... Wonder Woman used to be a lot weaker before. She wasn't able to take high-caliber bullets to the face, for one.

The thing is, though, DC started to up her strength, resistance and speed to put her on the same level almost to Superman, in an attempt to please the female readership. So they could have two powerful icons of each sex. That's also why she started to outright fly. From there it was a lot easier to also sell the pairing as two equals joining together. So in DC's opinion the whole effort was 10/10.
Of course, that presented a few problems like, why the bracelets then? Or the flying invisible jet?

Now we're in this situation where people flip-flop between powerlevels without ever truly deciding if she should be as powerful as Superman or not. Even then when she's powerful as fuck, she still presented as weaker than him. Because, come on. A female more powerful than SuperMAN? Not even Supergirl get to be that.

>>92946899
>Flash HAS to be faster

this is the only one that's true because otherwise there is no point to the flash

>>92949082
>Or the flying invisible jet?
Wasn't that only in the show?

>>92945960
Superman has been DC's designated jobber since TDKR.
Wonder Woman wins

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>>92945960
The amount of abilities, defenses, rate of recovery and so on a Kryptonian has is ridiculous. They can be overwhelmed through brute force like the case with Doomsday or any other bruiser type but it's usually going to be through the whim of the writer they resort to no other options what with their X-ray vision, superhuman sight, reaction speed, flight, oxygen independence, etc.

There's a reason the green rock or red sun is something most have to resort to.
>And magic!
Well, no, not really as we've gone over before Black Adam is someone with supernatural strength derived from Magic but it only makes it so Superman's invulnerability can't nullify that strength.

In fact the Nu52, in an admittedly detestable example, even showed magic solar energy from the god Apollo still juiced Clark. It did so in a way that seemingly disturbed his natural radiation processing, being an unnatural source and all, but if magic nullified what made him Kryptonian he'd have just been killed.

Kryptonians are not particularly weak to magic they're just not immune to it. Like most other mortal creatures.

Magic does not nullify Clark being Kryptonian under a yellow sun, unless someone conjures that exact spell like in SuperBatman but aside from that totallynotjustRedSunRadiation approach any No Items VS with a Kryptonian should not run like a game of Pokémon.
Again except for someone like Red Star who can produce Red Solar Radiation, because then that's exactly what would happen.
Then again Superboy Prime told Kovar to just go fuck himself when he tried that, but that's Superboy Prime. He didn't even feel the effects of the Red Sun he was flown through until after the other two Supermen pounding on him had lost their powers.

Actually, how exactly they survived flying through the core of Rao while being submerged in its radiation is a bit questionable, but it made for a dramatic finale I guess.

>>92946122

if you're OP, you're mistaken about Wonder Woman being able to take him,but the Flash could

>>92948924
>Superman has no limits.

Can this meme end already? It's true that Superman's upper limit is astronomically high and his power has been described as near-infinite, but he still has limits.

Also, Superman would beat Wonder Woman in a fight.

>>92949266

Dude, stop repeating that Busiek mantra. Writers sometimes show Superman tanking magic, specially when he's fighting Shazam or Black Adam, since Superman will never look weaker than those two, and sometimes they show Superman getting completely wrecked by magic, like in the case of a writer trying to hype an OC as dangerous foe in some arc.

And that Nu52 example is bullshit. Not that anything else with Superman isn't bullshit either.

The only thing that matters is popularity. Superman's DC's mascot. He'll always have his image protected. He only lose in that regarded when faced against Batman, because Batman.

yes he will. Supes gave WW villains the beating of their lifes. she needs to team up to deal with his villains.
Also the fact that she is "mrs.no weakness" is bullshit you know it. the least they have to do is having her lose in strength competition. specially against a fucking kryptonian that has been under the yellow sun for 99% of his life

>>92948695
They got beat by Zod and Faora after an Amp by Apollo, Wonder Woman's main baddie.

And the cape scene wasn't Superman protecting her as much as a symbol of affection, considering Superman was worse off at the end.

The Doomsday thing was just randomly throwned-in, Superman didn't even really save her desu

>>92949266

the way I always imagined Superman's resistance to magic, in DnD terms, is he has a shitload of HP and a shitload of damage resistance. If you toss a magic fireball at him, his fire resistance will reduce the damage to almost 0 and his massive HP pool will mean the damage that does get through is completely insignificant.

If you tried to polymorph him or use an instant death spell, or charm or use Hold Person, the spell affects him as normal assuming he fails his save.

>>92949065
Nah. Batman is just a better detective

Superman is a better scientist in theory

>>92949413
that the way it is.
If you through a fireball to him it does nothing
If you through a fireball with a fire that burns everything that touches it will burn him
Is that simple.

>>92945960
Superman always holds back in any fight he's ever been in

>>92949166
Flash can literally STEAL SPEED

He's fine

>>92949439
And the best Detectives think outside the box.

Checkmate.

>>92948442

he didn't even fly originally. Superhuman strength was always his defining trait

>>92949266
Why is Spider-Man trying to choke Superman with a nunchuck?

>>92949410

They were both getting wrecked by Zod and Faora, just not so much as before when it was just Superman against both.

And Superman saving her was a symbol of affection, yeah, but also to show that he was stronger. He didn't even need his cape to protect him, while she needed it. His sacrifice was to show him as the strong protective boyfriend.

And Superman saved her, yes.

The whole comic was to service Superman character. He's always shown in the right and as stronger and super protective and loving. He's the big MAN in the relationship.

>strength
Superman

>Speed
Superman

>Endurance
Superman

>Skill
Wonder Woman

>Abilites
Superman

>Experience
Wonder Woman (she's got hundreds of years of experience battling gods and monsters)

>Feats
Superman

>overall
It's really not in WW's favor, but that's how it is.

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>>92946024
Superman has more raw power than the rest of the JL combined. This includes GL, WW, MM, Shazam, etc.

The truth is simple if you bleed away all the bullshit and all the Power wank superman has and give wonder woman a fair and equal arena to fight Superman she would kick his ass at that's the fact Superman fans just don't like it.

>>92949873
The fact is that Superman has always looked better in every fight they've ever had.

>inb4 someone posts Injustice where Diana cheap shots Clark

>>92948634
>but any other moment Superman outclass the Flash.

In a fight, sure.

Supes hasn't beaten Flash for speed since the silver age.

>>92949948
Someone already posted it >>92946710 because that sort of thing is all they have and hold dearly to.

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>>92949965

>>92950007
What's Flash wearing on his head?

>>92950007
context is everything, anon.

Don't WW's bracelets hold back her Goddess power or something?

If she takes them off she shits all over him.

>>92950116
>Don't WW's bracelets hold back her Goddess power or something?
In nu52, yes.

>>92950116
That's only in Azzarello's continuity.

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>>92950007

>>92949871
And yet Martian Manhunter's physical strength is described as being equal to Superman's.

Also, is Captain Marvel/Shazam supposed to also have mower raw power than the JL minus Superman combined? Because he's an EXACT match in both strength and speed to Supes.

>>92950133
>>92950134
So can we agree that while Silver Age Superman kills Silver Age Wondy, New 52 WW kills New 52 Supes?

>>92950210
I don't know what either character's upper limit is in the Nu52. Just because Wonder Woman has a glowing more powerful form doesn't mean I know what it can do.

>>92950197
>he's an EXACT match in both strength and speed to Supes.
I'm gonna disagree on speed, while they both lifted the Book of Infinite pages up for Strength, I can't think of a moment Shazam/C.Marvel was moving with Supes at equal speeds.

>>92948273
I was thinking Rebirth Superman and Rebirth Wonder Woman

>>92950197

It doesn't matter. Superman always beat them. Martian Manhunter himself is always getting clowned by Supergirl, Zod, and so on.

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>>92950268

>>92950355
>A god can outrun the fastest man alive

I...don't think that's true. I feel like the Flash should be able to beat Mercury in a race.

The only way otherwise, I suppose, would be the fact that if Flash breaks lightspeed, he enters the Speed Force, whereas maybe Merc doesn't?

And if it IS true, then Billy and Wonder Woman would BOTH be faster than the Flash because they both get their superspeed from Mercury/Hermes.

>>92950134

Which was a holdover from the Marston era

>>92950355
>>92950421
I agree that a Speed Force Conduit, not necessarily any Flash, should beat Mercury.

I've actually wanted to go over a matter like this but in order to do so as a rational discussion instead of just a rant and argument I'd need to gather some material.

I'll seed the concept with this though.
What is Poseidon?
Now, what is Oceanus?

>>92950450
I thought the Martson version was psychological, not a power limiter. She wouldn't get stronger, just lose self-control and go wild.

>>92946077
I mean if she has her weapons/equipment then she would stomp, since her weapons are magical and Supes isn't particularly durable against magic (it's not his "weakness" like a lot of people say, it's just that his extreme durability only includes the physical and not the mystical).

>>92950499
>Now, what is Oceanus?

I don't know how it works in comics but the way I was taught Greek myth tended to suggest that the difference between Titans and gods is while Gods had control of an element, Titans were elementals themselves. Like a Titan of Earth was more commonly depicted as a sentient mountain with arms and legs rather than as the world's best geokinetic.

Pretty sure Superman can run at lightspeed, but deliberately restrains himself under Earth's atmosphere because different from Flash, he does cause collateral damage while moving at hypersonic speed.

>>92950499
Poseidon-Meditteranean Sea, lord of water.
Oceanus-Black Sea, called the unfriendly Sea, Titan of Water.
Pontus-the Ocean

>>92950629
He is fast enough to fly to other planets in a time that would make doing so worthwhile, so yes, he can break lightspeed in a vacuum.

But Superman's powers are more inconsistent from writer to writer than any other character. Some prefer him to be within range of other characters, others like Grant Morrison see him as a living metaphor, to them he is the infinity man.

>>92946710
but a FOOLISH Amazon warrior wielding a magic sword stepped fourth to oppose me

>>92949413
Humans used to have innate magical resistance in the DC universe ( I am unsure of their status at this time since magic backstory with regards to human evolution has not been explained in a very long time) so I see alot of confusion as people tend to assume humans are set at 0.
This means that the fireball spell was developed and intended for use vs beings that have innate magical resistance while Superman has no magical resistance racial trait like humans. This results in the illusion that he (and any alien really) take what we think is a damage bonus but is actually a lack of damage resistance.

>>92950574
>while Gods had control of an element, Titans were elementals themselves.
Precisely.

Even if Mercury is the god of swift travel anyone the Speed Force itself decides should be a direct conduit of it should leave him in their dust.

The thing is we as humans have an innate reverence for the divine or mystic, which is why I think a lot of people are more comfortable writing or reading the idea a god or some magical being should exceed a mortal even if the mortal is written as drawing from a primordial source. What can be done.

>>92949301
Superman has no limits. He and Wonder Woman once lifted Spectre off the ground. He's held a book of infinite pages, which is like lifting infinite weight. He's held a black hole in his hand and moved the earth, but none of this implies he's at his maximum limit.

Other than helping to lift Spectre, Wonder Woman has no comparable feats compared to Superman.

>>92949413
>>92950752
Ya'll are making me wish the DCUO game was geared more like an MMORPG you explore the entire subject matter and setting of rather than just the superhero stuff.
Then again I jumped off the game a few minutes after character creation so I never explored enough to know if it is or gets just like that.

>>92950173
What happened here?

>>92949476
So do the best scientists?

>>92951226
Batman > Superman when it comes tactical strategies and detective work. Superman > Batman in everything else.

>>92950989
Really wish the Character Creation was release as a stand alone.

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>>92951134
Superman wasn't fast enough to save those hooded captives.

But here in 'Peace on Earth' He stopped a small army from slaughtering a group of civilians from gunfire, so it really all depends how much solar energy he has stored aka how ever powerful the writer needs him to be.

>>92949490
Why not?

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>>92951134
Bunch of war prisoners get executed after a civil war in some country ends and superman tries to stop it.

>>92946024
Supes has trained in crazy kryptonian martial arts.

>>92952078
I hate that so much. It makes no fucking sense.

>>92952476
>It makes no fucking sense.
sounds like a personal problem.

>>92945960
Supes has speed and power advantage
Diana is strong and has a magic sword (Supes isn't weak to magic but he doesn't resist it the same way he resists almost all damage)
If it were written with the logical limits of their powers an not for plot Supes would sweep every Leaguer besides Captain Marvel (who could stalemate him), Martian Manhunter (who stomps everyone under him), and Flash (who could kill literally any non speedster in milliseconds or permanently incapacitate them at the very least)
Supes is too fast for Diana's sword to come into play and she can't overpower him without kryptonite
Same if Supes fought Aquaman with no restrictions

So just from reading this thread is this the agreed upon power levels based on the Rebirth league lineup. Assuming bloodlust and logical powers
>Flash
>Superman
>Wonder Woman >=Aquaman
>Green Lantern
>Cyborg
>Batman

>>92953015

Superman wins against the Flash.

>>92945960

Superman can move planets and fly through the sun, even a red sun. Wonder Woman is a better fighter. Superman can tank her hits. She'd have to knock him out while he has his guard down.

>>92946078

She didn't beat him. She couldn't. That's why she slashed his neck to stop him for a bit and killed Max Lord.

>>92946602
>Dude Reddit lmao xD

>>92953015
Can Aquaman really beat Hal?

Superman should stomp, but he jobs to Wondy whenever they face-off because it wouldn't be exciting to see the guy everyone knows is super powerful beat up Diana

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>>92945960
No it's not true, Superman is faster and stronger, skill doesn't matter much and even then Superman has plenty of skill.

>>92954107
This, pretty much.
Superman jobs to other heroes whenever they seriously fight. He is the original Warf.

>>92950722
Underrated post

>>92953715
Honestly depnds on how powerful the writer wants to make Green Lanterns. Like they can fly between solar systems with ease but they never show even a fraction of that speed in combat and are often reduced down to nothing but frail construct makers. Aquaman's speed and strength are underestimated since he seems to be Diana's equal in modern day

>>92953064
>Flash can speed force at 17 times the speed of light
>Can process events that occur at the level of an attosecond
Flash could hit Supes with thousands of infinite mass punches inthe time it takes Superman to blink and then dodge literally anything Clark throws back if there's even any Superman left to throw a punch

>>92954679

Doesn't matter. Superman would still win.

>>92954613
>they can fly between solar systems with ease but they never show even a fraction of that speed in combat
Because writers really underestimate how long it takes to get to another planet and how fast you need to be.

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It really depends on what iteration of him you're talking about.

In some iterations, Superman's strength is about throwing cars or heavy objects around, like Diana's, but in others, he can move planets with his bare hands, so...

>>92954613
>>92954738
Sometimes the GLs are given a "warp" speed of some kind, i.e. they're travelling automatically a FTL through some sort of ring based GPS hyperspace thing and can't regularly use it in "regular space".

>>92954738
Lantern Lore would be much better if it was established a lantern could generate portals to any planet in their sector and directly to Oa. I don't even care about them being able to breathe and talk in space, but the travel time always triggers the old autism

>>92953064
Not really. Even if Superman could tank everything the Flash throws at him, the option of time travelling to get him early still exists for the Flash while Superman is no longer (or doesn't seem) able to do silver agey time travel anymore.

>>92954861

It DOES NOT matter. Superman would still win. It has nothing to do with logic, but character importance. They'd come up with some bullshit that while Flash is fast, Superman's more versatile or something dumb like that.

>>92954898
The scenario you're banging your head against was a death battle (ie bloodlusted and logical powers, no plot conveniences or biases)

>>92954898
Are you fucking stupid anon? The anon making the listing said the logical power tiers as opposed to the meta power tiers. Your reason for flash winning literally has nothing to do with the conversation and as such is complete garbage.

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>>92954848
To source my shit up

>>92948971
No longer canon. In fact most of the things posted aren't.

Hell, the only event I liked recently in Forever Evil isn't even canon anymore and that wasn't too long ago in comic book terms.

>>92946547
yoooo where is this from

>>92945960
Fuck off to reddit, tumblr or comic vine with your retarded threads. These vs threads are worse than /tv/ shit posters.

>>92955536
New Krypton i believe.

>>92946820
because they're works of fiction, any vs is literally going to be a story

>>92955614
I'd rather have this than "MARVEL KEKS BTFO HAHAHAHA" shitting up the board

>>92954848
Think it's called "Transluminal Space travel"

He's on a whole diferent level, stronger,faster,smarter.

>>92945960
There's no logical reason Superman couldn't wipe the floor with Wonder Woman. The only reason they are shown as equals in fights, is because of gender equality. That's it. People wouldn't be comfortable watching Superman beating a woman's face in.

Was it Injustice or another one that had Batman say WW would win because she'd aim to kill when Superman would try to incapacitate.

>>92956518

Batman's a Wondy fanboy. His opinion doesn't count.

>>92954942
>death battle
>no biases

ok there sport

>>92945960
Superman is leagues stronger regardless of the incarnation. However, her access to magic items evens the playing ground significantly. It's a stupid debate anyway, you might anyway well ask if Superman can defeat Shazam.

>>92954971
Who cares for canon in Big 2 shit?

>>92954679
And in Death of the New Gods Superman moved at least 25 times faster than light. He's also caught Zoom by surprise.

>but races
Races in an atmosphere you mean, where Superman has no speed force hacks preventing collateral damage

>but Superman can't even see-
Superman doesn't have his senses dialed up to maximum speed at all times.

>>92955536
>>92955644
Yes. Superman demonstrates just how skilled and experienced he is. He's also used pressure points to take own Batman, while Batman was possessed by a kryptonite ghost.

>>92956477
i would

WW with magical weapons would be a good fight.

Without magical shit, and a hand to hand fight she gets wrecked no sweat. Without magic she couldn't even harm Superman.

Since we are doing a shitty vs thread anyway I will put my opinion in powerlevels.

Superman's strength is a 10
WW strength is a 7 I don't count that bullshit bracelet removal and neither do the writers since it might as well no longer exist

Supermans Durability is a 10
WW durability is a 7

Supermans speed is a 9
WW speed is a 7, using shitty reflex stuff to pump her up.

Superman Fighting skill is a 5 or 6
WW's is a 10 her real only advantage minus magic weapons.

>>92946708
Cmon, Wonder Woman went to the speed force on her own power

>>92950197
MM strength may be in the same league in the way Superman is Bary Bonds and MM is Jim Abbot. Though in all seriousness MM is slightly weaker than Supes, slightly slower, and less durable. The advantage MM has is with intangibility and his Mental shit.

>>92953015
I would put Superman and Flash as equals. Flash hasn't done some of his bullshit since he was Wally West.

>>92962145

Honestly I would put Superman ahead of Flash. There wouldn't be any place to build enough speed once Superman ignites the atmosphere and slams the moon into the Earth.

>>92945960
In a battle of endurance, I'd say Wonder Woman. Superman has weaknesses to exploit and is ultimately a battery, so let him run dry.

>>92962400
Maybe if Superman was fighting at night, and couldn't fly. Even at night Superman rarely has to worry about running out of juice. During the day he will never run out.

I agree with his weaknesses, if she uses kryptonite it is a no brainer. Magic would even the odds make it a 50/50, but if written by someone who takes advantage of both of their abilities I think Supes would win. He could Freeze her, Melt her brain from orbit. Fly at such speeds straight down from orbit cracking the planet in half. Or hell he could simply move the planet out of orbit killing everyone. Not much her magic lasso can do about that shit.

>>92945960

If she's wielding a kryptonite weapon, yes. If not, no. Part of what makes Wonder Woman Wonder Woman is her armor/weapons so you have to include those as well (Supes doesn't usually use weapons).

But a straight up knock down fight without kryptonite or weaons? No, not a chance. Whereas that's Supes weakness, all he'd have to do is exploit WW's weakness....bondage I guess?

>>92946024
Superman's skill lies in his power usage. Wonder Woman doesn't stand a chance.

Superman wins if he's actually trying to kill her (sending her to space, flying through the sun, heat vision lobotomy, freeze breath shatter, punching her head clean off, Mach 7 orbital impact, ramming his fist through her anus and out her mouth, etc.).

Wonder Woman wins if Superman is being a complete gentleman and just wants her to feel good about herself, so he throws the fight and takes a few bruises just to keep her happy so she doesn't get all turbocunty and tries to kill things with penises.

>>92945960
as always in big two comics the answer to this depends on which run you're reading because individual writers have different ideas about the strengths and weaknesses of Superman and Wonder Woman.

Sometimes Superman is written as an unskilled brute, sometimes he's written as a kryptonian martial artist, sometimes he's written as having received training from batman, etc.

Likewise, sometimes Wonder Woman is written as able to deflect bullets with her skin and sometimes she's written as having to use her bracelets because she's not durable enough.

There's not a real answer to this question but I imagine that if you average their appearances they probably tie.

>>92947343
>Wonder Woman's not on it.
but that´s the thing, she actually beat him

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>>92963663
Never in an actual fight. It is always WW trying to run the clock out on some thing controlling Supes. WW durability is quite a bit lower than supes, here is a recent comic proof.

>>92945960
Wonder Woman is one of the few people on earth with the legitimate potential to kill Superman.

She's not as strong, or as fast, but she's strong and fast enough to put up a fight. And she has two big assets:

She's totally willing to fight dirty and kill people

She's got magical weaponry, and Superman is not immune to magic

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>>92950197
>>92962076
Shazam and MM are in the same tier as a holding-back Superman. An unleashed Supes is several tiers above them.

MM, in particular, is a joke. He's been rekd by Kara, Zod, Doomsday, Adam, etc.

>>92963957
Farm-boy could at least use the lasso.

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>>92963909
No, she doesn't. She has the potential to beat a holding back Superman. A legit evil Superman would rape her and Batman and there's nothing they can do about it.

>>92963957
This has been proven wrong many times. Supes has lost his powers and generally still does brave and crazy shit.

Some famous examples are when Gotham is captured by braniac and supes loses his powers. During this time he becomes essentially Batman.

Another time is when Superman loses his powers for a day, and still stands in front of a guy with a gun talking him down.

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>>92964195
Even a holding back superman pimp slaps her.

>>92963957
>I Don't Read Comics: The Comic

>>92964337
>>92964212
Somebody post that panel of Superman jumping down the pit without powers as he tells the rest of the (knockoff) JL that he trusts them to get his powers back before he dies at the bottom.

>>92950722
hahaha

>>92948862
which would imply anyone can beat Clark

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There's that JLU episode where Mongul puts supes in that dream world and proceeds to just knock Diana around for like fifteen minutes of the episode saying she ain't shit. Then the minute Supes wakes up he just bitchslaps him around effortlessly, if that counts for anything.

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>>92967073
Also just because I don't get to post this one enough.

>>92967073
>>92967159
That show had a lot of sexual innuendo in it.

>>92967073
>>92967159
The JLU established pretty well that the only one who can hang with Mongul and Darkseid is Superman.

Hell, Diana lost to fucking Aquaman, who Supes proceeded to one shot.

>>92963048
I always thought the braces thing was because its more visually engaging then just standing there

Superman beats her decisively. Diana is strong but Superman is on another level speed and strength-wise

>>92963957
Clark Kent has exposed and led to the arrest of countless individual organizations. Clark Kent has a day job, a wife, a child, he has an actual life. Hell, if it comes down to it, he could also be a damn FARMER! Wonder Woman... she's royalty that punches stuff.

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>>92967073
DCAU is no a very reliable source. The Flash had trouble keeping up with a fucking van in that series and Superman needed that stupid space suit.

>>92947115
>>92947165
>>92948348
>>92948214
nothing more emotionally secure than strawmaning and bitching about others

>>92946024

He's a lot stronger than her physically and he had a bunch of other superpowers besides strength.

She has more experience with weapons and knows more fighting styles. She's durable (but not invulnerable), she heals quickly and she can shake off a punch from him more easily than most of the other JL members.

Heat vision nuke from space. Supes wins easy.

>>92968181
>>92970329

that particular episode was based on a comic and in the comic it still happened pretty much like anon described

So, aside from all the power level crap, what is the fundamental difference between Clark and Diana? They're always presented as two "big goods" with just different origins.

>>92971571

Wonder Woman becomes the cunt-y one whenever they interact. That helps?

>>92970851
Well, that's one for the animated universe, I guess. Don't get me wrong, I love the cartoons, just wish they'd get some consistent scaling for the heroes' powers.

>>92971571
Read the Nu52 Superman/Wonder Woman trades. I felt similar to you, but reading them interact on a intimate level, their differences start piling up.

>>92971966

This is a terrible post. That book was awful and had a terrible portrayal of Wonder Woman who was basically characterized that way so Superman could come off looking better.

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>>92972046
Sorry you didn't like my post. It's particularly devastating to me because your opinion means so much to me, and the only reason I ever post is so that you will think I'm cool.

>>92969259
Superman's powers are super inconsistent, like how the Hulk can go from huge jobber to WORLD DESTROYER between writers. Wonder Woman would lose though since her powers are more consistent minus nu52

>>92972231

It's just recommending a comic where Wonder Woman had a terrible portrayal to make you point is silly. What's next? Injustice 2?

It'd be like recommending AvX as a good example of how different the Avengers and X-Men are.