ITT: characters who would make better companions than Ashi.

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>>92908650

You have to strike off everyone who can't scream a time portal into existence. Have to cram that deus ex machina in.

>>92908799
Reminder that jack could have gone back in time 50 years earlier if he'd just jumped into portal those monks helped him find, instead of running back to rescue them even though they'll cease to exist and won't need rescuing once the future is undone

>>92908828
You don't know what Deus Ex is.

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I still like the idea of Scaramouche swapping roles with Ashi.
>Jack goes through a T2-style character arc where he learns to find compassion for Aku's robot minions, some of whom are built to think and feel just like anyone else - but are treated more or less like dispensable appliances, pitied by no one, with only one impossible-to-fulfill purpose in life (killing Jack/pleasing Aku)
>Ashi becomes the typical daughter-of-a-demon bitch villainess after Jack massacres all of her sisters, and becomes the deadpan joke character unsuccessfully navigating through a world she doesn't understand to deliver unto Aku the message that Jack's lost his sword

>>92911943
this would have been fucking amazing

>>92908849
wow you sound really smart did you think on that all by yourself?

>>92912194
It's funny, you make it sound like something really easy to figure out (because it absolutely is) and yet somehow Genndy completely overlooked it.

>>92911276
Fucking this desu.
the wolf had more personality than ashi and it never said a word

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There's no point in this because literally EVERYONE could've done ashi's job of not making jack commit sudoku.
Imagine if scaramouche for some unknown reason decided "heh that samurai dude ain't all too bad maybe i'll help him with aku" it would have the same effect ashi had.
God what a fucking mistake of a character

>>92912550
Anon, I think it's time we talked...

>>92911718
>>92911276
Came here to post this.

>>92908849
Same thing with the dick rocket.

He just had to chill, for a minute and retcon the wasp bots murdering Rocker bros.

Its a shame none of those dudes mentioned a bit of time travel theroy to poor jack.

>>92912519
Sure, tell me the wolf's personality and why it's so much better than Ashi's.

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>>92912550
Yeah, no.

>>92912268
Except he did not. If you remember the original seasons you'll see that both Jack and Aku have had victory at the claps of their hands on various occasions and have managed to get fucked over because of their constant affiliation to good and evil respectively. Jack's honor and niceness has fucked him over not as usually as Aku's need to be a dick, but still a few times.

>>92912550
>There's no point in this because literally EVERYONE could've done ashi's job of not making jack commit sudoku.

Not everyone

>>92913083
>He just had to chill, for a minute and retcon the wasp bots murdering Rocker bros.

Pretty sure that if the rocket exploded he wouldn't have been able to go back in time.

>>92913144
This is true.

>seaman episode
>Aku literally has Jack on his grasp and could've killed him right then and there
>the seamen asked Aku to keep up his part of the deal, which isn't even a grandiose one, just "can we just live above sea"
>Aku tells them to fuck off
>the seamen then rebel against him and save Jack

That ticked me off more than anything Jack has done.

>>92913308
Same thing happened to Aku when he decided to break Jack's heart disguised as Ikra. He could have let him drown in the sandpits, but he pulled him out just to see his face when he discovered she had been Aku all along.
Or when Aku chose to kill Jack with his own sword instead of keeping it away from him and just massacring him in the cemetery.
Or more recently, when he announced to the world that he had Jack and wanted Ashi to be the one to kill him.
Aku's failures are his fault, same as Jack.

>>92913357
Laughed my ass off in the finale when we see the sword in the same room intact it's like lmao what an idiot haha

>>92913394
He's a proud embodiment of evil. He probably wanted to keep it as a trophy. Although I still don't buy that Aku can destroy the sword. Jack has deflected laser beams with the damn blade.

>>92913440
sure it was just kooky is all

>>92911276
What do you think this is, Casshern sins?!

>>92913440
In the same room though? How many times has Aku almost died because the sword was with reach of Jack? You'd think he'd put it away in the depths of where ever the hell he likes to burst forth from when visitors show up

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>>92913605
dude he's an idiot

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>>92911276
I really expected the wolf would do something more than it did. Would've been really great for jack to have a grumpy doggo following him around for a while

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>>92912550

>>92912827
>>92913114
>>92913177
ashifags gettin mad at the truth

>>92913605
Well, Jack was going to die in a couple of minutes; it's not like he was going to keep the together.
And speaking of circumstances, he had Jack defeated, broken, immobilized, with no allies in sight and convinced no one would bother to come for him.

>>92913644
No he's pure evil. Close, but not quite the same

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>>92913654
>butthurt antiashifag because his shtiposting thread has been derailed

>>92911276
Hey its that dog

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>>92913662
He's been that before, and Aku has only embarrassing memories to show for it. You'd think he'd start getting paranoid

>>92913766
Aku's immortal; he's beyond learning at this point. At least he didn't try to execute Jack with his own sword again.

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>>92913605
>You'd think he'd put it away in the depths of where ever the hell he likes to burst forth from when visitors show up
Why would he put the only thing that can hurt him in the same place where he chills? That's like a teacher confiscating a thumb tack from some kid, and then proceeding to bring it home and hiding it in his own bed just to be sure the kid wouldn't get it back. Aku's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's probably smart enough to avoid killing himself by sitting on a magic sword after he misplaced it in some dark hole.

>>92913854
Can the sword actually hurt him if it's not wielded by someone? I mean, could the embodiment of evil actually die if he sat on it by mistake?

>>92913854
>Hide sword away where no one but you will ever get it
>Somehow manage to kill yourself because you tripped over it trying to find the bathroom
It takes a special brand of stupid for that to even be a possibility

>>92913898
Jack was able to seal Aku in the sword just by throwing it at him once, so I assume it could still work as long as it's still sharp and making contact with Aku's body.

>>92913940
He's dead, man.

>>92913674
and an idiot

>>92913981
Yeah, you're right.

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>>92913096
The wolf was in many ways similiar to jack.
both were lone wolves(ironically) that survived on their own against an hostile world that was ready to crush them at any given moment.
like jack, the wolf too hides under a cold exterior.
like jack, the wolf actually shows compassion to him by not only not eating him and bringing him food, but by also licking his wounds, wich is a sign of care for all canids.
The wolf is a parallel to jack in almost every way:hard, intimidating exterior but warm and caring interior, he not only manages to have a personality but also manages to be a parallel to the protagonist.
that enough?

>>92913981
It was thrown by the will of his samurai spirit though. If it had just fallen on him after rolling off a shelf who the fuck know what would happen

>>92914026
Wolf is of bros and bros not for sexual

>>92914059
B-but i never said i wanted to see jack and the doggo fuck

>>92914026
I agree with those points and believe they're very well founded. Good job, anon.
However, the same comparison can be made about Ashi.
They are both very similar as well.
Despite being in a group, Ashi, like her sisters, had an individual mindset. They all worked alone and never cared for any of their companions.
They have both endured incredibly hard lives and survived what the majority wouldn't have.
Ashi as was pure rage, a person behind a curtain of ire and murderous desires. Like Jack, she has a very soft side for nature and its wonders she was forced to build harshness on top off.
Ashi also shows kindness to people around her, specially Jack, keeping him safe from danger when he's at his weakest and healing his deepest emotional wounds.
In the same way, Ashi is also a magnificent reflection for Jack while still being her own character.

I don't think I've ever seen such a obvious embodiment of boring 'waifu bait' than Ashi.
The dumb bitch straight up got molded into the most bland waifu-template right in front of our eyes to be Jacks gf/cocksleeve and people actually fell for it.

If she was actually INTERESTING or FUN it would've been slightly better, but she was just such a bore to watch on screen.

>>92914163
She looked hotter when she was a brainwashed killer.
that haircut kicked ass

>>92914163
She's about as complex as Jack. More complex than Jack in the earlier seasons and about as complex as Jack in season 5. A little less.

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>>92913922
Cut him some slack anon, he's OLD.

>>92914189
Her being a pissy onion in contrast to Jacks coolness was fun, what a fucking waste.
The fact that the completely obvious 'The main girl and guy falls in wuv' actually happened in SJ of all things is baffling to me.
>>92914219
What the hell does that have to do with it?
It doesn't justify it either since she still managed to be a boring onahole.

>>92914338
yeah man enough with the heteronormative garbage

>>92913986
That's besides the point.

>>92914338
>What the hell does that have to do with it?
>It doesn't justify it either since she still managed to be a boring onahole.
Well, if Ashi being "bland" bothers you so much why aren't you annoyed by Jack's simplicity as well? You wouldn't watch a show whose main character you hated, right?

>>92914338
>The fact that the completely obvious 'The main girl and guy falls in wuv' actually happened in SJ of all things is baffling to me.

Why would it be baffling? SJ wasn't known for having original writing.

>>92914375
Simplicity and dullness are two different things straw-picker anon.

>It's a Samurai Jack was never actually good episode

>>92914413
I know, but what does Ashi lack that Jack has that makes him much more interesting?

>>92914413
i take it you're both

>>92914134
I can't really see the comparasion between the two.
Ashi was more of her own thing than a similiarity to jack.
Jack never really had an individual mindset, most of the time he was ready to put other people's sake above his own.
Ashi didin't really have a soft side, she had more of a base for a soft side that was modeled by Jack.
Her curiosity for nature wasn't really a soft side, it was just that, curiosity for something alien to her.

>>92914436
relatable male-angst

>>92914477
No, I don't want to think that that anon just hates Ashi because she's a women. That's childish and I expect better of him.

>>92914436
Cool factor.
Jack manages to be a badass by running away in his undies

>>92911943

love this

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>>92913687
>3 posts out of 70
>derailed
stay in denial, ashifag, no one likes you

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Why didin't cuckaku just blast the sword into the sun instead of placing it on an altar when he got it?

>>92914474
She is still interested in helping people and as soon as she sees the evil that Aku has unleashed she is ready to go kill him, no questions asked.
Both Jack and Ashi are very determined to fulfill their goals and they both still help those around them if they ever need it.
Ashi got over her individual mindset as well, but keep in mind that her mission to kill Jack had been disguised as a mission of good, so in a way she believed she was saving the world by killing him.
It's not only curiosity; it's admiration. She adores nature, loves it as much as Jack does, maybe even more thanks to the fact that she was deprived of it for so long.

>>92914522
Ashi managed to be a badass too practically naked, then mostly naked, and then fully naked.

>>92914386
No, but SJ was an action series. You don't see 'The main girl and guy falls in wuv' in a Stallone flick (or at least not before the finale).

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>>92914577
Well, then it's good for me I don't care what people think about me.

>>92914600
Ashi lacked the beard, the shogun armor, the gun, the voice and the suicidal ghost thing.
Jacko just wins in badassery

>>92914615
Come on anon, you know romance in action series and movies is present for the most part.

>>92911943
After he slaughtered a village of humans and stood there so long cheerfully singing and playing their corpses started to rot just to get Jack to come, that would never happen.

>>92914615
autism speaks.

>>92914638
Yeah. She still had the vegeta hair, the cool assassin black skin with a white mask, the chain weapon whose name I ignore, the silent killer type and the hallucinations with her abusive mother. Not really on the same level, but she's still pretty badass.

>>92914364
Faggot
>>92914375
Jacks simplicity is his strength, it allows him/the writers to bounce off the colorful characters he encounters. Since Ashi isn't the titular character that we're watching S5 for in the first place, she should've had a more solid personality instead of being a dull MC character.
>>92914386
I found it out of place and unessecary, doesn't feel like it fit and it sure as hell didn't help that it was in the final season with only 10 episodes to develop it of all things.

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>>92911943
but then there's no love subplot and it's just another spin off T2

>>92914648
Almost entirely as damsels in distress to give the main character a macguffin to fight for. Jack already has his macguffin (going back to the past), there was absolutely no reason to throw in another "goal" for him to achieve. For a while in the penultimate episode it seemed like Genndy intends for Jack to have a dilemma (stay with Ashi in the current time or go back to the past to save his family?), but the retarded finale threw that out of the window.

>>92914674
Fedora tips.

>>92914693
wow, that was rude!

>>92914693
>Jacks simplicity is his strength, it allows him/the writers to bounce off the colorful characters he encounters. Since Ashi isn't the titular character that we're watching S5 for in the first place, she should've had a more solid personality instead of being a dull MC character.
I still think Ashi was interesting enough to carry her scenes well.

>>92914729
what if

stay with me here

he needed to experience true love in order to attain his main goal?

>>92914753
>he needed to experience true love in order to attain his main goal?
How? Nothing in the story suggests this.

>>92914729
So, you think women in action series should only be damsels in distress for the story to work or am I misreading you? I don't want to sound like a tumblrina, but I hope that's not what you're saying because in that regard we disagree.

Besides, Ashi is not a goal; she's with him on the journey to reach that same goal. She doesn't replace or impose herself on Jack list of interest beyond "I don't want her to die".

>>92914673
Just change it and make it that Jack makes it to the village on time

>>92914583
Ashi was mostly influenced by Jack, i'm certain that if jack said "whatever aku isn't that bad let's pledge ourselves to him" she would've still followed him in every action.
Ashi was influenced in her entire life, first by big bad momma and then by jack.
but yeah obviously she believed to be doing good by killing jack in the beginning, her mother told her aku was basically jesus.

>>92914683
>Ashi....ashi.....ashi...?
>KILL THE SAMURAI
also i will forever miss her old haircut

>>92914784
Ashi made choices on her own, though. That was the idea with episode 6. Leaving her alone and letting her decide what she wanted to do.
By that logic, you could argue that Jack is only fulfilling his father's will and that he has no say on the matter at all.

>>92914775
>So, you think women in action series should only be damsels in distress for the story to work or am I misreading you?
Are you even following the current discussion or are you here just to shitpost?
>Besides, Ashi is not a goal; she's with him on the journey to reach that same goal.
Well that changes quick in episode 9. And before that she serves no purpose but to steal Jack's spotlight in the action scenes, and make a cheesy romance episode.

>>92914841
>Well that changes quick in episode 9. And before that she serves no purpose but to steal Jack's spotlight in the action scenes, and make a cheesy romance episode.
Jack and Ashi have their focus still on Aku. The whole time. He just takes a moment to admit to be concerned for her because, by his experienced, he's lost everyone he's ever loved in his quest. I don't see how that's derailing his goal.
Both Jack and Ashi action scenes of their own. If she didn't have any scenes you would have just whined about her being a useless character; there's simply no winning with you people.
I personally liked the romance episode; if you didn't that's more subjective.

>>92914820
>Update
Of course she could make her own decisions, she's not a robot.
Ashi was still influenced way more than jack in everything, that's what shaped her personality.

>>92912550
Holy crap, you didnt even got what scaramouche would say right!

It would probably be something like
>Jacky baby ain't all too baddo, maybe i'll help him swing-a-ding-ding aku until he goes aku-boo-boo-bye-bye, babe

>>92914940
>by his experienced, he's lost everyone he's ever loved in his quest
He's lost everyone he's ever loved at the beginning of it - that's why he wants to go back to the past! Now there's somebody he loves in the present, plus she's the big bad's daughter. If you don't see that dilemma through your foot-thick milk glasses, then I don't know what to say to you.
>Both Jack and Ashi action scenes of their own. If she didn't have any scenes you would have just whined about her being a useless character; there's simply no winning with you people.
Action scenes don't flesh out a character. They give him more screen time, but they don't develop a character's personality.

>>92914986
Yeah i know.
the way scaramouche talks is basically it's own language, it's hard to replicate it.

>>92915032
>!
Lurk for a couple of years, it'll do you good

>>92915032
Jack never experienced any sort of dilemma because going back to the past wasn't an option at that point. He stated it quite clearly that he'd never return in episode 9, so this dilemma at the time was impossible to present itself.
Also, don't change the subject. You were talking about Ashi having too many actions scenes or at least enough to steal his spotlight. The relation between action scenes and character development was never dressed in your previous post.

>>92914778
He still would have been threatening innocent villagers.
Ashi never did anything evil, and it showed based off of her pathetic yelling after getting beaten

>>92915043
He wil be missed

>>92915110
Now he's singing with the angels

>>92913986
So was demongo.

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>>92915057
Go back to 9gag, that place fits you more.
>>92915102
>because going back to the past wasn't an option at that point
But it was?
>You were talking about Ashi having too many actions scenes or at least enough to steal his spotlight
Stop grasping at straws, that wasn't even my main point.
>"she serves no purpose [before XYZ] but (...)"
>so you don't like that she has too many action scenes!

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>>92908650
I dunno, the Aku future could be the same as the Mandark future.

>>92915199
>But it was?
No, it fucking wasn't. All portals were destroyed, Jack and Ashi's objective was just killing Aku. No mention of returning to the past because Jack clearly specified in the campfire scene that he'd only be able to see the past in memories because Aku had destroyed all the ways back.

>>92915239
>I have only watched season 5
End of discussion.

>>92914583
>She is still interested in helping people and as soon as she sees the evil that Aku has unleashed she is ready to go kill him, no questions asked
That really wasn't very well executed

>>92915259
I have watched all seasons 3 times already. So what, you're implying Jack Jack could use the portal the monks showed him? That portal that was destroyed at the end of the episode? That particular portal?
There are no portals in the future after the 50 year skip until Ashi opened one in episode 10; going back was never an option Jack and Ashi considered because it was never present. She fucking improvised; saw an opportunity and took it. So don't tell me about this dilemma of "of should I go back to the past or stay in the future with Ashi" because that dilemma was never fucking there and you're making it up to win a discussion.

>>92915358
>I have watched all seasons 3 times already. So what, you're implying Jack Jack could use the portal the monks showed him? That portal that was destroyed at the end of the episode? That particular portal?
He could, the monks even lampshaded this. The only reason he didn't is because he cared about them.

>>92915353
Why not?
"World's a shithole, I have no family and my one purpose has been a lie. I might as well do something good for the people living in this dictatorship whose dictator I was indoctrinated to love.

>>92915388
I never denied this; he had many chances to go back the rejected on the principle that he'd be leaving someone behind in the process. And before you say it, yes, it was Jack's mistake because he's too nice for his own sake as well as his quest's.

>>92914451
How cute.
>>92914436
The show actually makes us care about the character sure he had 4 seasons but he did almost the same things over and over again, his virtues flaws and motives come along the episodes one by one and develop in a way that even if it may not make sense, it's still smooth and subtle rather than thrown in your face and forced to accept it as it is because that's what the contrived plot demands.

>>92913357
Well he wanted to make sure no one else could get the crystal. No way only Jack was looking for it.

>>92914774
His father tells him to listen to his heart to defeat Aku in the very first ep tho

>>92915436
>I never denied this
YOU DID.
>because going back to the past wasn't an option at that point

>>92915459
"Listen to your heart" is a far cry from "find true love" and it can mean literally anything that involves compassion.

>>92915448
>The show actually makes us care about the character sure he had 4 seasons but he did almost the same things over and over again, his virtues flaws and motives come along the episodes one by one and develop in a way that even if it may not make sense, it's still smooth and subtle rather than thrown in your face and forced to accept it as it is because that's what the contrived plot demands.
So you're saying that it wasn't because of Ashi herself, but because the season lacked episodes to flesh her out better?
If that's the case, I agree with you.

>>92915489
yeah but in this case it was the same thing :)

>>92915463
When I said "at that point" I was referring to Jack and Ashi's interactions in season 5, well after they had all been destroyed. I am denying that going back to the past was an option when they were going together after Aku.

>>92915518
And how does that imply that "he needed to experience true love in order to attain his main goal" instead of it being a complete plot-insignificant coincidence?

>people now pretending SJ was ever an intricate elaborately plotted show with deep fully fleshed out characters just to find an excuse to be contrarian

lol pls

>>92915390
She was just convinced too easily.
>"Hey look at this tree. Aku destroyed all the others, really. Don't mind that you were literally raised to believe I'm a blight upon the world that will use lies and trickery to deceive you"
>"Look at these criminals. They're going to take the homes of these defenseless nobodies. Nevermind you were raised to believe the strong should dominate the weak, to the point you were confused and angered when a stag didn't violently dominate a doe."
Really it should've taken some effort just to get her to see the value in helping people.

>>92915552
i dunno man, did you even watch the season?

>>92915563
hurr it's not like they spent an entire episode in the belly of an animal from which he saved her or anything

>>92913986
Everyone is.

>>92915578
How would it affect his intentions any less if it was Scotsman helping him out of his depression, or any other friendly non-sexual-interest person?

>>92915563
She stopped believing about the strong dominating the weak ones the moment Jack bested her in combat and decided not to kill her and instead took compassion in her.
Also, the ladybug scene in which Jack, the strong one, allowed the ladybug to fly free despite it being much weaker than him.

>>92915629
Pretty sure the Scotsman wasn't gay

>>92915597
An episode in which she spent the whole time trying to get them both killed. She doesn't value her own life and believed Jack was pulling an elaborate ruse on her. Her mind is completely fucked.

>>92915504
Well, I'm not the person you were arguing with I don't really know what was going to be his point, I just entered to point out your faults in logic. I'm not saying either that we really needed more episodes to flesh her out, it could've been done better in the time we had, but if that was the case then I also agree that a better option would've been to simply not include the character or include a different one that could be worked out in the reduced time.
So yeah, I'd also agree that Ashi is a bad character, because what could've or should've been really has no value against what actually happened. The same way a cake will taste bad if it's underbaked or overbaked it doesn't matter how great it would've been had it been cooked for the right amount of time, because right now the cake tastes terrible.

>>92915547
Well clearly it was an option, since he ended up in the past at the end. It could've been interesting to see him struggle whether to make use of Ashi's power or not, but instead we got the boring way out. And he didn't even give a single fuck that he made everybody that helped him out disappear into nonexistence, like he did in the Monk episode either, painting him as a hypocrite in the end.

>>92915657
ok?

>>92915629
Doesn't carry the same weight. Ashi was changed by Jack in ways she never thought to be possible; he saved her from his influence. The fact that despite having given up he still managed to cleanse the world from Aku's corruption in more ways than just killing gave him the hope to save the rest of the world.

>>92915655
Did you intend to read my post or are you here just to shitpost?
>>92915680
>he saved her from his influence.
How did Jack not save countless people from Aku's influence? The archers, for example?

>>92915679
Point is it did nothing to change her mindset

>>92915674
But it wasn't an option because they didn't know it was an option. It´s like saying "I have incurable cancer so I'm going to die."
Suddenly before you die a cure is discovered. Now you do have an option to take it or not.

>>92915705
>How did Jack not save countless people from Aku's influence? The archers, for example?
Literal influence. One thing is being magically controlled against your will; a very different one is persuading your enemy into joining your side.

>>92915719
Ashi could've just like, not summoned the portal, you know.

>>92915708
apparently not

>>92915708
She started reconsidering when she saw Jack giving the same compassion to other beings aside from her, like the ladybug. She saw that he was genuinely kind and not just trying to play her.

>>92915708
>>92915754

that is to say, apparently it did change her mind somewhat

>>92915743
>One thing is being magically controlled against your will
Are you saying that this isn't more horrifying that being simply convinced to do a bad thing?

Also the end result is the same. You can't know how the archers felt while they were anubis people, whether they weren't also brainwashed on a mental level. The end result in both of those ways was
>our actions were misguided to evil ends because of Aku

>>92915747
It was a do or die situation. She knew how much Jack missed the past and how miserable he was in the future. So, the first chance she had, she took him to the past. Why risking dying fighting Aku when you could just take him to the past straight away?

>>92915747
man you're dense

oh well what can you expect from a board that can't even understand a SU plot point

>>92915782
Enough to convince her her god is actually a bad guy after being shown a tree? Doesn't seem like a very strong argument to me

>>92915802
It is more horrifying, but its still your will that is being bent by an exterior force without consent. Jack actually managed to turn Ashi to good with his actions instead of lifting a curse. Hell, with the Archers he intended to kill them; he didn't know they were corrupted in the first place.

>>92915806
She could've taken him to a different spot in time to seek shelter before making any rash decisions.
>>92915834
You are an asshat

>>92915850
Obviously not, that was just a part of it holy fuck

>>92915850
A tree, and thousands of people dying and suffering. Don't over simplify.

>>92915872
No, you're objectively being stupid. It was literally conveyed as a spur of the moment decision she made because they were all about to die.

>>92911943
That's stupid, you only like Scaramouche so much because he's funny. Your like those fags that scream about how Variks was the best lok character

>>92915861
>It is more horrifying, but its still your will that is being bent by an exterior force without consent.
So what you're saying is that in both cases he saved somebody from Aku's influence, but Ashi's case for some reason carried more weight because
>Jack actually managed to turn Ashi to good with his actions instead of lifting a curse
How is lifting a curse not Jack's doing?

>>92915878
>thousands of people dying and suffering
Which is the natural order of things to her eyes. The strong prevail, and inherit the beautiful earth as Aku wishes

>>92915933
ah nice headcanon

>>92915958
That's what her mother tells her anon.

>>92915958
>headcanon
So is this the new 'cuck'?

>>92915993
uh, I don't know if you recall, but she killed her mother

>>92916065
Which was AFTER being converted by Jack.

>>92916065
Are you trying to be obtuse? Should I just quit now and save myself the time?

>>92916114
Right, due in part to how well he treated her including saving her from being eaten by a monster

>>92916138
Which already goes against the philosophy she was taught. It explains nothing about how she abandoned that philosophy in the first place.

>>92916235
rewatch the show my dude, you missed some plot points

>>92916273
I missed nothing. You're the one insinuating that her mother's philosophy being so flimsy that Jack being nice to her breaks it in a night and a day isn't a Genndy asspull.

>>92916403
>I missed nothing

apparently you did. Her breaking away from the programming was one of the themes of her training montage and where the ladybug motif starts even.

>>92916471
How does the ladybug scene contradict
>She doesn't value her own life and believed Jack was pulling an elaborate ruse on her. Her mind is completely fucked.
?

>>92916505
internal strife, guy.

>>92916545
>a ladybug seen in her childhood somehow causes enough internal strife to convince her that her god is actually a bad guy after being shown a tree

>>92916587
yes, that was the point. Also you're oversimplifying, again, he saved her, remember?

>>92916662
She was conditioned to not care about being saved. What does that have to do with the ladybug? It's literally the opposite scenario - in the ladybug scene she's displaying compassion for the ladybug, this never implies that she's receptive to receiving compassion from others.

>>92915933
I'll repeat myself and say that she clearly had those views altered after being spare by Jack, who was clearly stronger than her, and seeing Jack not killing the ladybug, also weaker than her, and the giant snake not eating them despite it being larger than them. She had plenty of moments to see that her Darwinist education was wrong.

>>92915929
Because, seriously, he didn't change the Archer's minds, that wasn't his intention. He intended to get them killed and then discovered that they had been controlled by magic. It's not the same convincing someone not to kill you when he's wearing an explosive collar than convincing someone whose own convictions are pushing them to kill you.

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>>92916701
sure

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>>92916754
Dude anime lmao

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>>92916766
Sometimes you realize you're talking with an idiot and you just have to pull out.

>>92916795
Yeah, I'm glad I didn't end up like >>92916754

>>92916750
But how does this imply that "he needed to experience true love in order to attain his main goal"?

>>92916814
>mad

>>92916844
I don't remember mentioning anything about true love; that was another anon.
I was the one defending that Ashi represents the hope for purification in Aku's world and that's what makes her being to one to save Jack all the more meaningful.

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>>92916851
>bad

>>92916913
How are all the other characters not influenced by Aku not representative of the hope for purification? In almost all cases, Aku's influence is shown to be more destructive than corrupting, and Ashi and her family are literally the only characters shown to be brainwashed in the coercive sense, rather than magic/technological means.

>>92916986
They were all born in Aku's world but were always shown opposing him. Ashi was raised to praise Aku and see him as the ultimate good, yet she was still able to leave the cave and see the world for what it truly was. It's also pretty interesting to see how a cult dedicated to the devotion to Aku produced the one person who ended up helping destroy him. The rest of characters can't say that about themselves.

what did the sperm taste like?

just wondering haha

>>92917070
>but were always shown opposing him
Except for Ashi, who was?
>The rest of characters can't say that about themselves.
Even if they weren't conditioned to love him, they were all born under Aku's reign. As implied in the ending by them getting undoed from existence, indirectly they were all products of Aku's actions.

>>92917124
>by them getting undoed from existence

we only saw that happen to Ashi tho. THere's nothing to imply that they won't still exist in the future, just under better circumstances.

>>92917173
>we only saw that happen to Ashi tho.
Thus dismissing the multiverse theory, with the implication that all consequences and coincidences of Aku's reign were undoed completely. Including every single future character in the series being born, and their ancestors presumably making different decisions in respect to choosing their partners, and further changing their personalities as well the personalities of their children like a huge time avalanche. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the future after Aku's death is anything like shown in the rest of the series.

>>92917235
Dude, it's time travel, there's not really any scientific, rational or logical basis to stand on here. All we know is that Ashi faded into oblivion, that has no bearing on any other future life unless you appeal to more pseudo-scientific cruft.

SJ was never about the little details, this isn't The Wire

>>92917323
So what you're implying is that we should disregard any discussion of consistency in fictional media because they're fictional themselves? That if one character in a show gets killed by a point blank explosion and another doesn't without any explanation why that might be so (superpower? luck? and why aren't the other characters amazed by the coincidence? etc.), people shouldn't question it?

>>92917475
>we should disregard any discussion of consistency

I never said that, you're just jumping to conclusions

>>92917506
Alright Mr. smartypants, why shouldn't we believe that the other characters are influenced by the past changing the same way that Ashi is? She literally says why it happens, there is no ambiguity unless we assume that her parting words (to her lover, no less) were a complete lie.

>>92917568
Because Ashi was literally made with Aku's essence

>>92917124
>by them getting undoed from existence
I really don't see why people are so bothered by this. Their existence was pain and there was no going back. Jack did them a favor.

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>>92911943
That would've been the stupidest possible thing and even if it went down that way initially, we all know the same people would be complaining now.

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>>92911718
Never ever

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>>92908650
Enough. It's over. Samurai Jack is complete, and it disappointed the fuck out of me, like everything else I've ever dared to get excited for. Let it die and move on.

>>92917585
And? She's born because of Aku. Shittons of people were born because of Aku, indirectly. For the sake of posterity, let's say that Scotsman's mom would've gone for some gruff dude that died because of Aku so she settled for Scotsman's current dad. In this example out of many similar ones (and reaching many, many generations behind), had Aku never existed, Scotsman would never have been born.
>Without Aku - I would have never existed. *fades*

>>92917591
>Their existence was pain
Because of Aku. If he dies in the future, the world has a chance to recover. And Jack realized this, which is why he saved the monks instead of taking the portal in that one episode.

>>92917701
>indirectly

exactly

>>92917735
>exactly
What is your point here?

>>92917754
Ashi's different. You can infer, but it doesn't exactly imply that anyone in the future that wasn't made directly from Aku will cease to exist entirely.

>>92917798
Why? She said that Aku's essence left her after he died and yet she continued living for months. There's nothing implying that her death is connected with just her having Aku's genes.

>>92917936
>Why?
Because nothing suggests otherwise

>She said that Aku's essence left her after he died
yeah, and then she died, funny that.

>>92917936
I'm just assuming here, but I'm guessing that "I felt him leave me" was refered to present (or past) Aku. Since she was a part of him, technically speaking she was connected to past Aku as well and had he known about it he could have tried to regain control over her.

>>92918007
>Because nothing suggests otherwise
She didn't say
>Without Aku, I can't exist anymore.
She literally said
>Without Aku - I would have never existed.
Thus implying that she got screwed retrospectively by his death.

>>92911276
This honestly. So much wasted potentail.

>>92918075
that doesn't disagree with my point...

>>92918158
How does that disagree with my point that Aku's death corrupts the entire timeline that happens after his death because he wasn't there to cause the actions (including spawning his daughterfu) that the timeline contained?

>>92918158
>>92918214
>Aku's death corrupts the entire timeline that happens after his death
To clarify, the timeline that WOULD have happened had he stayed alive (i.e. the setting of the whole show)

>>92918214
Again, because she's the direct spawn of Aku.

>>92918271
Should I just repeat everything I just wrote all over again or is this a vain effort?

>>92910763
I want to FUCK

>>92918316
Im not saying what you're saying is infeasible, just that Ashi's death does not imply that and we're never given any implication within the show that it does work out that way

>>92918391
Read >>92918075
She's literally saying that in this "reformed timeline" she never was even born and thus ceases to exist.

>>92912268
He didn't overlook it. All those times Jack didn't go back to the past mean jack shit over than inspiring a couple people and mostly just showcase his primitive morality system at the time.
>>92912550
>>92913654
Do you realize that every major Samurai Jack character ever could be replaced?
Scotsman could be the one saving the world, Demongo could be the main villain, Minions of Seth might've been there in the place of a Guardian, Shinovi might've been Scaramouche. You wanna know why? Because they're all very basic archetypes. You picking out Ashi and failing to see that it's like that for literally everyone in the SJ verse just shows your own bias. That, or you're shitposting

>>92918421
right because Aku's dead and, unlike everybody else in the timeline we meet, she is the direct product of Aku, SO it doesn't say anything about anybody else, how is this so hard to understand?

>>92918479
And WHY does it matter that she's the direct product of Aku? On a large-scale population basis, how is making a sperm bump into the egg fundamentally any different than making a girder bump into the head of the potential sperm donor, taking him out of the genepool DIRECTLY, therefore INDIRECTLY influencing the future generation of his wife?

>>92918532
because that sperm donor's essence wasn't magically destroyed by a blade with infinite power wiping away every trace of existence and thus continuation :)

Look the point is SJ was never concerned with logical minutiae so any decree you make in regards to this is purely headcanon. All we know is Ashi dies

>>92918626
>a blade with infinite power wiping away every trace of existence and thus continuation
It isn't implied anywhere in the series that the sword somehow "selectively erases Aku in all timelines". The only thing we know about the sword is that it can kill Aku, nothing more.
>Look the point is SJ was never concerned with logical minutiae so any decree you make in regards to this is purely headcanon. All we know is Ashi dies
If your implication here is that SJ was written by a hack who just didn't care about coherence, at least we can agree on something

>>92918754
>It isn't implied anywhere in the series that the sword somehow "selectively erases Aku in all timelines".

never said that. Im saying that it could be what happens and as such is a valid counterpoint to the notion that everyone in the future ceases to exist, because both conclusions draw on the same amount of evidence and speculation.

>If your implication here is that SJ was written by a hack

good thing it isn't ;)

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>>92918807
>never said that. Im saying that it could be what happens and as such is a valid counterpoint to the notion that everyone in the future ceases to exist, because both conclusions draw on the same amount of evidence and speculation.
Wrong. We already have evidence that past actions have consequence on the future in the Jackverse.

Pic related is Brave Sir Wilbur, a valiant hero and also my shallow OC character conceived solely to prove a point. Sir Wilbur married a girl named Gisela, and was a famous warrior to challenge Aku in the year 10XY, but alas, in the same year he was slain by Aku's hand. Wilbur had intended to conceive a child named Timothy, but after his death Gisela settled down with another man and conceived Philip. Philip is also the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather of who we currently know as Scotsman.

But the world has suddenly changed. There is no unspeakable evil in the world anymore, because it died in the past. Which of the following happens to Sir Wilbur?
a) He lives to old age and conceives a child named Timothy
b) He disappears without a trace in the year 10XY, nobody knowing what happened to him
c) He is unknowingly fighting an unseen force, neither he nor his vicinity knowing what it is, and yet this force appears to not be alive or conscious; afterwards he is slain by this force in the year 10XY, as if Aku was still alive.

>222 posts
>41 ips

>>92919019
what's to say that existence is tied to a particular pair of parents?

>>92919104
>what's to say that existence is tied to a particular pair of parents?
Genetics.

Timothy and Philip are fundamentally different people, despite sharing a parent. Timothy would've been born with a rare congenital disease and died at 12 years of age, leaving no heritage. Philip inherits a quality genepool from his new dad and is incredibly vigorous, leaving to the age of 95 and leaving a dozen children in his wake.

>>92919180
I didn't know Genetics explained the soul

>>92919194
>soul
What's a soul?

>>92919229
good question

>>92919255
>how do genetics explain a concept I can't describe
Hm, I don't know?

>>92919272
can you describe it?

>>92919351
I don't believe in a soul, but I believe it's implied to be some kind of a transcendental, epigenetic "essence" of every living individual that can potentially still interact with the material world as a ghostly presence. There are souls in the Jackverse (the most recent example being Scotsman's ghost), but there's absolutely no indication that they can transcend the timeline and its changes.

>>92919446
no indication they can't

>>92919469
That area is just pure headcanon since it touches upon nothing presented in the series. If souls exist and can transcend time, then where did Ashi's soul go?

And even if their souls were preserved, the living individuals bearing the souls wouldn't be - they're virtually guaranteed to be completely different people after the timechange.

>>92919601
again, the point is we don't know either way, all we know is that Aku's death caused her own

>>92919633
>all we know is
...what Ashi told us.
>Aku's death caused her own
...because "[she] would have never existed" (ad verbatim from the script)

Thus leading me back to this post >>92919019

>>92919675
right I'm not saying your wrong, just that it's not the only feasible explanation, and you're kind of going against the spirit of the show trying to analyze it this hard

>>92920014
>just that it's not the only feasible explanation
Any other explanation relies on a lesser or greater dose of headcanon. This is the only explanation that's hinged directly in what the show tells the viewers.
>and you're kind of going against the spirit of the show trying to analyze it this hard
You know what went against the spirit of the show? The shitty mess of an ending that it left me with.

>most cartoons just do "future is fine everyone was born with better lives"

>fags overthink it on samurai jack, the most idealistic show of CN

>>92920076
>Any other explanation relies on a lesser or greater dose of headcanon.

um okay?

>>92920094
Implying that this line of "overthinking" isn't applicable to any other mishandled time-travel concept.

>>92920140
it really doesn't. SJ never pretended to be hard science

>>92911276
I actually wanted him to stay

>>92911943
>tumblr starts drawing thousands of ugly gay pairing pictures with Jack and 'mouche

>>92920221
>SJ never pretended to have a coherent plot

>>92920140
Well at least with stuff like Doctor Who the whole show heavily revolves around it and it's constantly brought up and discussed even in-universe, unlike here where it's merely a plot device.

Are people actually sad about ashi? I went into hysterics when she fucking Gurren Lagann'ed in the finale.

>>92920449
It's worth discussing when literally the meaning of the show's ending hinges entirely on what the time travel was supposed to imply.

OP is a bitch

>>92913308
>>92913357
>>92913394
"I'm smart, and you're pure evil" is literal. Aku's very nature is fucking everyone over even if it's counterproductive.

>>92911008
He's not wrong though.

>>92915108
>Ashi never did anything evil
>attempted murder isn't evil

>>92920415
get to the past

thats it

>>92924746
Except at multiple points he refused to go back to the past?

>>92925793
Because there was always something on the way; his main goal was still getting back to the past. It's Jack's fault that he's such a moralfag.

>>92925857
>Moralfag
>doesn't go back to the past to undo the action that created the sticky situation in the first place

>>92926063
Not if that means leaving someone behind to die. And yes, I am perfectly aware of how flawed Jack's logic is here, but that's his character. He's too good for his own sake the same way Aku is too evil for his own well.

>>92926192
And yet he has no remorse doing it in the last episode.

>>92926289
He wasn't the one to do it; it was Ashi. Also, he killed Aku and spared the world from suffering under his tyranny. In his eyes, he did well.

>>92926394
And he left all the people in the future to die.
>He wasn't the one to do it; it was Ashi.
All he had to say was "no, wait!"

>>92926456
She did it too fast for that. He didn't realize what was happening until he was literally on the way back. Look at the way he looked around before finally noticing what was going on.

>>92914578
you can't get rid of the sword.

The sword is a conceptual weapon created by the gods.
gods will create another sword and raise another warrior if jack failed.
the sword has the problem that only a worthy warrior can use it.
and also remember is also useless against what is "good"
since it's only purpose is to destroy evil.
Jack was not worthy in the first episodes until later
when he was "balanced"

>>92926493
And yet he never stopped to consider what happened to his friends once in the past.

>>92927012
It was never shown, but we don't know that for sure. He has a lifetime in the past; at one point he'll probably do. At this point I think Jack feels he did the right thing.

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>>92908650
I'm disappointed in you, /co/.

>>92911276
DD > Quiet

Every time.

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>>92927890
Underated post.

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He really should have kept the beard. That was his greatest companion.