RobinFans coming together

>>92866022
I'll believe it when I see it.

>>92866059

Have faith anon. Lobdell has been good since Rebirth. He will do well and stupid robin shit posting can slow down like it did after Bat burgers.

>Dickfags like littlebro Damian(aside from Damifad)
>Jasonfags and Damianfags had King sort their issues by having edgy tuffles
>Lobdell fixes Jason and Dick relationship in thisHe said hopefully
We do it bois
How do we fix Tim without killing or retconning him?

>>92866155
>>92866154


Did Lobdell say he was fixing Dick and Jaosn or is that wishful thinking?

I honestly don't know how to fix Tim other than letting him lead the Tec team.

Remember that brief time of peace when that Batman issue with them at fake McDonalds came out?

>>92866022
Jason has been completely neutered since the new 52

I don't understand how anyone can like him when he is not killing because Bruce wouldn't like it.

>>92866155
Tim's problems are almost entirely due to retconning and removing his social settings, so you can't. He's better kept in crisis prison until someone accepts the current one doesn't work.

>lobdell
No thanks

>>92866313

RHATO has been good. It surprised me too.
>>92866244
Yep. That was great minus the annoying ooc Damian and Jason fans.

>>92866273

Because that shit got old really fast. There's not much you can do with it and Jason looks like an idiot for expecting Bruce to change his ways.

>>92866155

Have Tim go undercover somewhere like Dick and Jason. Let him infiltrate some villain group or spy on Lex Luthor, even if Luthor knows about it.

>>92866022
All Robins except Damian are good
Morrison is a hack

>>92866469
> All Robins are good

Actually Dick as Robin was pretty bland and Steph was shitty.

>>92866368
He shouldn't care what Bruce does, not killing his enemies makes Jason just as ineffective as Bruce which ruins the whole point

>>92866469
Awful opinion by someone who doesn't read comics

>>92866343
>RHATO has been good!
That's what you fags always say.

>Lobdell wiring Dick
Why would Dick fans want to read that? He dislikes his character and will probably throw him under the bus again.

>>92866022
I don't have any faith that Lobdell can write Dick well, nor do I have any faith that Jason and Dick becoming friends will be continued on in other comics. Robinfags will never find peace.

>>92866022
Can't wait for more insipid pandering being hailed as the BEST THING EVAR by the retards, faggots and women here

>>92866693
No the highest complement I heard for the New 52 version, is that it wasn't as bad as everyone said. Which was true as beside a few outright awful issues it was just bland and never really went anywhere.

>>92866022
I'm ok with all Robinfags here, but I want damifag to leave. Him, alone. I'm ok with all the other Damian fans. I welcome them.

>>92867241
they are all like him tho
they just know how to hide it better

>>92867241
>damifag
They still around? Don't think I've seen that crazy 12 year old Arab girl in ages.

>>92867309
Just make a thread about Damian, she'll show up eventually

>>92866022
A reminder dick didnt go to jasons funeral


They dont give a fuck about each other

>>92866155
Make him embrace full tech geekism and make him gain some PTSD issues after his imprisonment in the limbo.

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>>92867368

>>92867368
Also a reminder that Bruce adopted Jason first and did all because he wanted to help him but was later retconned into "he just wanted to replace Dick" because everything has to be about Dick

>>92867347
I really want to know how she does it. Constantly refreshing Desuarchive, or did she go to the effort of setting up some kind of 4chan alarm.

>>92867368
If I'm remembering my NTT right wasn't he in space, and got really pissed at Bruce?

>>92866273
Becausw befor it was the same story every time

Also jason will still kill

Hes just not the punisher-lite anymore

>>92867423
I think she just continuously checks 4chan until someone makes a thread, but never makes a thread herself

>>92866693
If you like action movies from the 90's, the fun, good ones, and comfy, even heartwarming moments, you are going to like current RHATO, really.

>>92867392
yeah, it's not like that was how Bruce was trying to cope he "doesn't give a fcuk about death" lmao

>>92867450
I've seen her make a couple of threads, to bash the usual suspects. Terry seems to have become a target as well after the last Batman Beyond issue.

>>92867458
What are you talking about lmao, I was just showing Dick's reaction to Jason's death

>>92867309
It's one alone, and he's fucking annoying.

>>92867158
Thats true of most new 52 shit

I really likenthe first 2 iterations though.

>>92867494
I was commenting on the dialogue in the image, my bad

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>>92867529
Ah, never mind

>>92867450
Wait. Damifag is a girl?
For some reason I thought it was a boy.

>>92867603
Yeah, apparently she's a 12 year old girl with a crush on Damian

>>92867667
That certainly would explain a lot.

>>92867603
I got told it was a 12 year old Arab girl, which makes sense as not even a troll can be that dedicated, or that bad at the English language.

>>92867745
It has to be someone with a lot of time to spare, that's for sure. A teen could do it.

>>92866501
>Steph was shitty.

Stephanie wasn't even a real Robin.

>>92866273

I don't mind Jason calming down and being more nice/cute/awkward.

But I still wish he had his more vicious and clearly insane self underneath that. Crazy Jason was great.

I miss New Earth Jason.

>>92868213
I'd prefer him more coldly focused, slightly unhinged like he was in UtRH, than he was in anything Morrison wrote. Though I suppose neither would allow him to cash in on the $$$ gained from the Batfamily, and being in crossovers so that's gone.

>>92868213
You know deep down he's still crazy, anon. He clearly has some sanity issues even now, which translates into nonsense speech, being awfully unimpressed in dangerous moments (like with the plain falling a few issues ago) and being silly reckless.

He just doesn't show angry issues any more. Which is alright, because Jason liberates his anger when he fights, which was his initial trait as Robin, I think. He has gained some patient, too, which is nice.

>>92868350
>plain
Geez, I meant plane.

>>92868350
My God him and Artemis are going to be terrible parents.

>>92868430
Jason cares, and he clearly tries, and he's effective, and affective, too.
He will do better than Bruce, that's for sure. He's also a diligent and responsible. He's going to be alright, at least at dealing with Bizarro. Now, it it were some difficult child, like, say, Damian, that could be another story. I pity Dick (but he's probably suitable for him. Writers are lucky fucks).

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>>92867745
I think that pic related is her account at CBR

>>92867309
They were in the Lazarus Contract storytime thread.

>>92866469
Morrison is golden, it's just that most writers now have Damian as an edgy Mary sue Robin and that sucks.

>>92868605
Seems a little too literate to be Damifag

>>92868658
>They
It is only one person

>>92868697
it really wasn't, it was Tomasi that finally made Damian tolerable but then they had to pair him with Jon so he had to go back and be the edgy one just like Batman has to be the edgy/no hope in humanity one when he is with Superman

>>92868605
>Unsatisfied Office worker
I know Asia is lax on child labour laws but that implies this nutjob is an adult.

>>92868727
She may come here only to shitpost

>>92868771
I always figured that it was us seeing Damian from someone else's point of view. In fact, he comes off more as smug than edgy.

>>92868350
>You know deep down he's still crazy, anon.

God I hope so.

>He just doesn't show angry issues any more

I guess that's sort of what I'm missing.
But not just the anger. I miss him having strong emotional issues and being edgy. I miss him being obviously nuts.

But ah, I guess I'll just have to warm up to Nu52/Rebirth Jason.

>>92868552
>He will do better than Bruce, that's for sure.

If someone said this before Nu52 I would never believe them.

>>92867456
Old rhato was good for that too desu

>>92866693
And you fags keep saying otherwise without reading it so...

>>92867433
The New 52 has now been about half of his existence as the Red Hood and his stories are more played out than they were before it.

Also it's better to be DC's only Punisher lite than a slightly edgier version of pretty much every other street hero.

>>92868771
>it really wasn't, it was Tomasi that finally made Damian tolerabl
Did you never read Morrison's Batman and Robin or Batman Inc? You literally watch Damian come out of his shell and loose a lot of his attitude problem.

>>92869989
I did, and nothing of that happened

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>>92870031
Sure it didn't buddy

>>92866313
Apparently, Lobdell can write a decent book, if he has an editor's boot up his ass.

>>92869802
Thats bullshit

Every jason story pre 52 was literaly the same thing.

Jason kills people and tells bruce hes wrong for not killing people

Batman says jasons wrong while looking sad

Jason dose some thing crazy forcing batman to neutralize him

Every danm No character development nothing new

Ill take black sheep but ultimatly part of the family jason ocer anoth under the red hood rehash

>>92870448

The Judd Winick stories are way better written than the ones done by Scott Lobdell, and i hate Winick. Even Morrison's take on Jason is better.

And no character development? Lobdell's Jason is the one that suffers no character development. He's always playing the too cool for school bravado while being a generic anti-hero.

And how many times is Lobdell going to have Jason and Bruce reconcile while eating food like they were characters from some direct to TV family movie?

>>92870448
You are acting like he appeared a lot more than he did pre-new 52. There really wasn't that many Jason stories.

His most consistent appearances were in Countdown of all places.

>>92870448

You forgot

Dick treats Jason like a villain and doesn't love him anymore

Jason tries to beat the shit out of Tim

Jason freaks out over something and runs away

Jason once again is hinted at for being sexually abused

Jason gets angry and rants about how Bruce never loved him

Jason gets sad and rants about how Bruce doesn't love him

Jason tries to compete with/prove he's better than Dick

Jason feels like he's in Dick's shadow

Jason murders a bunch of criminals no problem

Bruce gets mad at Jason but doesn't really stop him or anything

Dick wishes Jason was dead

Jason becomes even more insane than before

Jason fucking loses it and does something bad

Dick still doesn't give a fuck about Jason and wants to lock him up forever

Tim starts to feel bad about/for Jason

Jason almost makes a friend but it doesn't last

Jason cries about Bruce again

Jason talks about how he was murdered for the millionth time

Jason talks about how he came back from the dead just as many times

Jason tries to get Bruce to kill The Joker again

Jason tries to kill The Joker himself

Jason runs away

>>92869802
Honestly, Punisher bores me. So no, I prefer this Jason.
I wouldn't mind him going full nuts tho. I mean: I like Moon Knight. But non-4th wall breaker current current Deadpool is alright, too. And I don't even like DP: I'm a Hawkeye fag.

>>92870984

This Jason is just a neutered Punisher, though.

>>92870984
Punisher is a great character it's just that he is used for so many cookie cutter revenge porn stories.
>>92870949
You are referencing only a handful of stories.

>>92871042
>>92871140

I don't know, anons. I think Jay has way, way more fun sense, and chill sense, and less rightfulness on hil than Frank.

I've never had fun with Punisher. I cannot say the same with even the edgier, more violent and more vigilante-ish version of Red Hood.

fuck Jasonfags, they can't even read properly and act as they know good writing

I remember wasting an entire thread arguing with someone over Death in the Family and all because they couldn't understand a simple panel

>>92871157
>on hil
On him. On him.
I'm going to stay away from keyboard.

>>92871157

So his neutered Deadpool then.

>>92871186
At this point, yes. And I know I'm not the only one that has noticed it. Luckily, he's not that annoying because he doesn't try to be the jocking type.

>>92870555
Only a guy with Lobdell hate boner would look what Morrison and Judd were doing with Jason and think its a positive

They wrote him as pathetic nut

Also for Jason having now character development in nu 52 that's just untrue

>>92866155
>>92866222

Let him leave the Batfamily, strike out in a Ted Kord sort of way and start his own business.

At the very least he needs a new persona outside of Red Robin

>>92871341

It it wasn't for Winick, dude, there would be no Red Hood.

And Lobdell's Jason had no character development. How many times he had Bruce patched their differences? I've counted 3 times.

>>92871341
>omg they didn't write my husbando as the handsome roguish type! they were bad

>>92871140

A handful of stories before Nu52 yes.
But that's basically a summary of most of the main plot points in stories with Jason Todd.

>>92871186
>neutered Deadpool

Jason might have been edgy and insane but it was in an angry depressive manner with tiny jokes and no breaking the fourth wall obnoxiously.

>>92871341
>It it wasn't for Winick, dude, there would be no Red Hood.

Without and leifeild there wouldn't be a deadpool, I'm not gonna pretend rob wrote the character well

>how man times have He and Bruce Patched their differences?

Once after the initial one it stuck, in rebirth theirs still a little mistrust, but they settled that nicely by reaffirming that Bruce and Jason are good.

Maybe try going back and reading since it was lost on you the first time

>>92868771

My only problem with Tomasi is that Dick never matters to his Damian development

>>92871607

And of the Nu52 ones as well. For example these all happened after Flashpoint:

>Dick treats Jason like a villain and doesn't love him anymore
>Jason freaks out over something and runs away
>Jason gets angry and rants about how Bruce never loved him
>Jason gets sad and rants about how Bruce doesn't love him
>Jason tries to compete with/prove he's better than Dick
>Jason feels like he's in Dick's shadow
>Jason murders a bunch of criminals no problem
>Bruce gets mad at Jason but doesn't really stop him or anything
>Jason fucking loses it and does something bad
>Dick still doesn't give a fuck about Jason and wants to lock him up forever
>Tim starts to feel bad about/for Jason
>Jason cries about Bruce again
>Jason talks about how he was murdered for the millionth time
>Jason talks about how he came back from the dead just as many times
>Jason tries to kill The Joker himself

>>92871664

Ah wait you guys were talking about modern Jason.

>>92871706

>I'm not gonna pretend rob wrote the character well

If you think that Lobdell writes Jason better than Winick, then you simple have shit-taste.

>Once after the initial one it stuck, in rebirth theirs still a little mistrust, but they settled that nicely by reaffirming that Bruce and Jason are good.

It happened three times on Lobdell's books alone.

>>92871664

Lobdell's Jason constantly makes word-pun and word-play and breakthe fourth-wall to talk directly with the reader to explain what's happened or do sarcastic remarks.

>>92871740
Yes, anon.
What do you think we were talking about? Post-crisis Jason? He was a nice kid.

>>92871711

Oh man, I started to think it was funny once I went over the list I wrote, but now it's even funnier. I mean it's still sad....but really funny.

Poor poor Jason.

>>92866022

No. Things will only get worse. Dick and Jason have the worst fandoms of the Batfamily. Dickfags will complain that Lobdell writes him poorly because Dick won't always be right or the center of the Universe. Jason fans hate Dick anyway and don't want him hogging up time from the other 2 Outlaws. Dick and Jason won't recouncile and nothing will be solved.

>>92871750
>>92871390
DOTF and Rebirth, what's the third?

>>92871710
god forbids someone doesn't need St. Dick to be the catalyst of something
he already is the one for Bruce, Tim and Jason etc.

>>92871710
Can you explain that? I did'nt read Batman and Robin, only Supersons and Superman.

>>92871782
He doesn't talk to the audience, anon. He talks to himself.

It's pretty clear. And the other anon was right: it's kind of depressive sarcasm when you read it.

>>92871856
But I like both Jason and Dick.
And I'm a Jason fan.

>>92871750
Iam sure you'd love winick if you didn't like the character


It happened once in lobdells books, rebirth wasn't a reconsiliation

>>92871907

He talks to the audience. He always goes "Hey, there. My name is Jason Todd, by i go as Red Hood. These are my... yadda yadda yadda".

I mean, he could talk to himself that way, but that would be autistic as fuck. It'd be if he acted constantly as if he was in an action movie.

>>92871975
>Iam sure you'd love winick if you didn't like the character

That doesn't even make any sense since i became a fan of the character because of Winick and got mad when Lobdell started to ruin the character backstory with his retardation.

>>92871888

Dick was way more important to Damian's development than Tim or Jason. He and Jason barely talked, so wtf are you talking about?

>>92871977
>I mean, he could talk to himself that way, but that would be autistic as fuck.
You're telling me you never, ever, mentally told yourself how much you've fucked up something, anon in a 3rd person narrative way to make it clear to yourself how stupid you're?

>>92871977
Jason is autistic as fuck though. he always drops his spaghetti when talking to girls for example.

>>92871848

New Earth Jason.
Jason after he first came back from the dead.

>>92872013
So you liked him acting like an edgy psychopath with no hope for redemption?

>>92871888

lmao of all people to complain about this is dumb. Dick was around Damian more than Bruce ffs

>>92872046

Yes, but i never present myself to myself inside my head as if i didn't knew who i was or what i was doing at the moment.

>>92872061
Ah, I guess that makes sense. But that didn't last a lot, to be honest. And it was a phase, a natural one, if you think about it. After the storm,the sky clears and it comes the calm. Or something. Some people find a way to deal with those issues, and so do fictional characters.

Or something.

>>92872066

>So you liked him acting like an edgy psychopath with no hope for redemption?

I'm starting to think you didn't read Winick's work on the character.

>>92872088
keyword: was
Tomais fixed it and I know Dickfags are mad about it

>>92872133

lol no. It's been restored now

>>92872097
It's comic language, anon. Look at Flash or Iron Fist. Even more fun: Iron Fists uses a (charming, outdated) 2nd person (he uses it himself now, even if it was a narrator in the old stuff).

>>92872133
But Dick is still around Damian more than Bruce in the present

>>92871888
>>92872133

> Damianfans turning on Dick

It was only a matter of time.

>>92871977
Jason's hardly the only one to do that though.

Man, this thread sure is something...

People preferring Lobdell take on Jason over Winick's. People preferring Tomasi melodramatic take on Bruce and Damian relationship over Morrison's fun take on Dick and Damian relationship.

It's pretty clear you fucks started reading comics with Nu52.

>>92872174
Yeah, because Bruce is not allowed to be around him otherwise Dickfags complain while at the same time they use this as an argument to show that he is a bad father.
Truly the most despicable fanbase around

>>92872184
It was silly and unrespectful to even current run's status in which both are even and in good terms. And it was just for the sake of conflict.

It was cheap, to be honest.

>>92872168
>>92872189

Lobdell overdo that shit on his books, though, specially with Jason.

That's why i think is fair to call his Jason a neutered Deadpool.

>>92872203
nothing wrong with that

>>92872203
>Liking something new means theyve never read the stories i like REEEE

>>92872217
This legit made me laugh out loud I'm sorry

>>92872222

Wait what was cheap? I think I lost the convo somewhere.

>>92872251

If they did, they'd prefer the superior takes.

>>92872203

Robin threads always turn to shit.

>>92872129
Of course he didn't.

I never thought I would see the day were there were such a thing as a Lobdellfag, outside of maybe Gen X fans. But there he is, posting away.

>>92872305
Truly, I genuinely believe Robinfags will never get along

>>92872284
>Morrison
>superior
Let's be honest the only reason you think that is because you like Dick

>>92872203
Hey, I liked Winpicks. I'm just saying that you cannot stuck the character at that point forever. I'm the anon who thinks Punisher is boring, btw.

I also liked Morrison B&R, despite not liking Jason in that. It was an awful take, even if it was a "crazy" angle and I tend to like those. I guess I can say it was interesting.

>>92866022

This will only work if Dick and Jason pose as a circus act out of costume. Pls make it happen. How good are Jason's acrobat skills?

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>>92872203
>People preferring Lobdell take on Jason over Winick's
UtRH is an OK comic, and a great movie. But Winick got really weird about Jason, to the extent I'm fairly sure he was in love with him by the end, writing him as a child prostitute, and... This scene.

>>92872316

They can if something shows all of them in a good light at the same time( like batman 16 did for anyone not called Tm)

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>>92872326
SHIT, JUST LIKE HOW JASON IS A SHIT CHARACTER

>>92872256
It's partly true tho, doesn't help that no one outside of Dick writers want to use Damian anyway

>>92872273
All the mistrust problems in the cross between Dick and Damian.

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When will /co/ realize that all other Robins are equally inferior to Carrie Kelley?

>>92872380
She has a vagina she is automatically inferior

>>92872066
>So you liked him acting like an edgy psychopath

Yes

>with no hope for redemption?

Eh. Nah.

>>92872324

I just think that Winick had a more nuanced and profound take on Jason and his idea of Jason trying to control the criminal underworld from the inside instead trying to get rid of something that will never go away. That shit had tons of potential, but instead we gained a dudebro with guns that calls himself an outlaw but i never see him being chased by authorities, not even the Batfamily, and in the end just act as a generic anti-hero.

>>92872348

That run in your pic was just Winick taking the piss on Morrison's take on the character.

>>92872326
He's good, not as good as Dick, but he's good.

>>92872373

Oh yeah that sucked.
>>92872357
Anon pls. Jason is precious. He is an awkward loser posing as a edgy bad boy. How can you not love him?

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>>92872433
>How can you not love him?
Robinfags always find a way to hate other Robins

>>92872066
He doesn't need redemption if he's always right.

Atleast he was before New 52

>>92872420
>I just think that Winick had a more nuanced and profound take on Jason and his idea of Jason trying to control the criminal underworld from the inside instead trying to get rid of something that will never go away.
That WAS an interesting idea, but then he totally blows it when he reveals he didn't really care about running the gangs and was just starting shit to force Black Mask to turn to the Joker.

>>92872348

Why do artists draw muscles like that? It looks so gross.
>>92872421

I thought his size made him more grounded but it looked smooth in things like RHaTO and Injustice trailer so it could work.

>>92872129
I did

Outside of utrh it was pretty shit

Just the same variation of the same danm story

>>92872485

He still wanted to make that idea work, though. I mean, when he came back later.

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>>92872420
>That run in your pic was just Winick taking the piss
So he had Ginger Thor in a prison reading Jane Austin, walking around in a towel, and beating up bestial rapists to make fun of Morrison? Also he added the unnecessary child rape backstory that Daniels ran with much earlier.

>>92872433
> He is an awkward loser posing as a edgy bad boy. How can you not love him?

The best decision they could make with him honestly.

>>92872433
>Anon pls. Jason is precious. He is an awkward loser posing as a edgy bad boy. How can you not love him?
Not that anon, but the fact that he's loved unironically by REAL awkward losers who think they're REALLY edgy bad boys kinda puts a damper on any enthusiasm I'd have for him.

>>92872516

>Just the same variation of the same danm story

Like RHatO then.

Jason should have been the last Robin

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>>92872484
Except hes written as such a batshit fuck you cant se anything reasonable in his actions

>>92872475
A shame honestly. I like them all for different reasons. It would be better if they didnt turn to shit when writers put them together but eh.

>>92872555
His teenage fanboys are pretty fucking annoying yeah. His fangirls are even worse though.

>>92872541

Yes, he was. He made fun of the entire Morrison's run during that arc. Jason even called Bruce's voyage through time meta wank.

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>>92872555
Forgot my image... self-checked too.

>>92872555

Fans, mostly tumblr ones are the worst, but I cant hold their retardation against a character.

>>92872420
This anon >>92872485 has stated my own opinion on the story. It was an interesting idea, but it went nowhere.

I think it still can get back to work on it. The first art of Rebirth worked with him posing as a criminal again, in the career of succeeding Black Mask, so that may have had some weight in Loebel mind for a moment, at least.

>>92872560
Now whose the cuck who hasn't read the comics.

Why do you people even argue? You are all terrible and ruined every Batman thread since forever.

>>92872541
In my headcanon, Jason has very dark auburn hair.

>>92872348
>writing him as a child prostitute

For some reason I think I missed this.
But I do remember the constant implications that Jason was sexually abused/raped.

I dunno why, but the only thing that bothered me was how the writer decided that Jason's real/natural hair colour was red/orange all along. Literally turning him into a redheaded step-child.

At that point they might as well go back and make Jason blonde again.

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>>92872660
Mentioning Robin is /co/'s version of someone throwing a steel chair

>>92872570
No one counts this mess of a storyline that was written last minute.

I remember being so confused when these Nightwing issues came out and I was expecting Jason to act like Judd's version.

>>92872555
You can laugh at them and them enjoy The Outlaws anyways if you want, anon.

>>92872719
Its not that far from how he ws protrayed in battle for the cowl

>>92872612
>bashing Winnick's Red Hood with a picture of Lobdell's

Please pass away.

>>92872698
>how the writer decided that Jason's real/natural hair colour was red/orange all along.
That was Morrison. I think it was an attempt at referencing Pre-Crisis Jason or something (at one point Jason was a red head but is traditionally black-haired).

>>92872698
I think it was Morrison.
And as far as I remember, he was more brown haired than blond haired in his firsts panels. So there is that.

>>92872819
Was Morrison aware of how creepy he made bruce seem with that?

>>92872819
Yeah, but pre-crises Jason was a weird reddy-blond color, and died it of his own free will. Morrison bringing it back as an angst point to make him an unloved red-headed step child was a bit on the nose.

>>92872862
creepy how?

Why do Robinfags pretend to read comics?

>>92872939
why do they hate batman so much, that's the real question
they either want him dead, replaced or constantly humiliated

>>92872819

He really should've gone with blonde since Jason was blonde in what may have been his earliest appearance (I think the one with Dick saying he wanted to adopt him) and his mother was blonde in 'Death in the Family'. Not only that but him having blonde hair makes more sense as to why it would be dyed black.

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>>92872903

>>92873055
That's not fair. He has a Black kid who hangs around now.

>>92873055
I mean, it does make sense that he had to protect his secret identity.
Everyone knows Robin has black hair then a new one comes out and has red hair just like the new adopted Bruce Wayne kid? It would be too easy to connect the dots. Of course I am sure they instead explained it as Bruce just wanting to recreate Dick instead.

>>92873091
Who is delibretly NOT a Robin

>>92866155
Make him the Oracle

Full on tech guy

>>92873116
Like their are logical reasons sure.

But the ways morrison Presented it gave off a kinda creepy vibe

>>92872719

Jason was psychopath in almost everything after he came back from the dead.

>>92873030
As a light blonde I can tell you that dyeing black is hard as fuck to maintain and ends with grey greenish color. But comics, I guess.

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>>92873117
True he's far too obedient to ever be a Robin.

>>92873164

No, he wasn't.

>>92872121

Jason was fucking crazy.

>>92873198
but he ended up disobeying too

>>92873055
Hey, I thought Damian had green eyes. He didn't originally?

>>92873207

Okay so maybe not a psychopath in everything.
But he was clearly insane.

>>92873198

Holy shit Damian is savage

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>>92872698
They changed it to red/orange BECAUSE the Pre-Crisis "blonde" hair looked orange more often than not.

>>92873258

No in Winick's works.

>>92873260
My only problem with it is that the have the exact same haircut. Does Alfred do it for them?

>>92873198
lol Jason btfo

>>92873144

This.

>>92873230

Yeah I think his eyes were green initially.

>>92873291
Just cause he said he wasn't insane dosen't man. He wasn't insane

>>92873288

It looks mostly blonde to me but okay.

>>92873291

Jason was insane Anon.
He was clearly insane.
Most crazy people don't just stop being crazy.
It just becomes easier to hide.

>>92873291
He was riddled with daddy issues, and ended up fucking his surrogate-mother.

>>92873481
It looks actually light brown. But that's because the color of the old paper. I suspect it was originally strawberry blonde, just like Wally West.

>>92873530
I forgot to mention the abandonment issues, and classic middle child syndrome towards Tim for being replaced.

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>>92873481
I dunno man, this is Bruce's date with Vicki Vale from the same issue and she seems to have the same color hair... and this was years before Kim Basinger, Vicki was a fiery redhead.

I mean, eyedrop tool reveals the colors are closer to salmon pink than anything, but it's clearly meant to be used for red hair.

>>92873462
>>92873521

He was more distressed than anything. Talia manipulated the heck out of him making him believe Bruce was abusive toward her and didn't cared about him, a manipulation that was effective because it reminded him of his own absent and abusive dad and nurturing and victimized step-mom. Ironically, Talia also took the place of his biological mom with her manipulation of him. So he set out to do this elaborate shit to attract both Bruce and Joker's attention so he could test with a 100% certainty if it was all true. Either Bruce proved that he loved Jason by breaking his vow and killing the Joker, or Bruce killed Jason to protect the Joker.

This is what a lot of people don't get about Under the Red Hood. Jason didn't really cared about Joker. He didn't really wanted to kill the Joker. Even Lobdell got this wrong. What Jason really cared about was to see if Bruce actually loved him. Joker was a mere tool for that. A way to force Bruce's hand to show his love or lack of for him.

>>92873609
>>92873530

Pretty much, yeah. I miss Winick's Jason. He was an interesting character.

>>92873693
Oh, now I see it. I didn't before, but now I see that point of view.

I think the movie covered it better. At least in the movie I got that message.

>>92873693
>This is what a lot of people don't get about Under the Red Hood. Jason didn't really cared about Joker. He didn't really wanted to kill the Joker. Even Lobdell got this wrong. What Jason really cared about was to see if Bruce actually loved him. Joker was a mere tool for that. A way to force Bruce's hand to show his love or lack of for him.
Thanks for confirming Jason Todd's entire motivation boils down to being an insecure drama queen.

>>92873693
Are you sure about that?

...Wait, if Jay really wanted to kill Joker he would've. Yeah you're kind aright.

>>92873772

I recommend reading Red Hood: Lost Days and Batman: Under the Red Hood in one sitting. It's really interesting character work.

>>92873776

It was a tragic tale about a kid who was always rejected and used going through it all over again in his journey to find parental love.

>>92873776
>Thanks for confirming Jason Todd's entire motivation boils down to being an insecure drama queen.
Anon if you have an issue with that the capeshit really isn't for you.

>>92873872
Funny, but I did, anon. And didn't get to that understanding. I'm a relatively new reader to DC.

>>92873860

He had maaany chances to kill both Bruce and the Joker. He never did it. Heck, he was even more conflicted about killing Bruce before their big confrontation since he was still feeling hurt and angry with Bruce over what Talia had lead him to believe. The whole thing was a test designed for Bruce. To put Bruce in a corner where there were only two choices: either he proved his love for Jason by killing the Joker, not that Joker was really important, but rather the symbolic gesture that action represented, or he killed Jason ending his suffering.

>>92873953

That's OK, anon. A lot of people didn't get that part. Even professional comic writers didn't.

My favorite part of Jason's tale at that time is how the whole thing goes back to Jason childhood. Jason's father was an abusive and absent jerk that would beat the shit out of Jason's stepmom, who Jason thought was his real mother. She always defended Jason. The whole thing eventually drove her to die of overdose to cope with it. So when Talia got her hands on Jason she pretty much led him to relive all that shit again by painting an image of Bruce that reminded Jason of his real father and acting in a way of him that was pretty much a mirror of how his stepmom did. Minor the sex stuff. While in reality she was actually using him the same way his biological mother used him when he found about her: using his emotions for her own gain.

>>92873693
Naw iam pretty sure he wanted his cake and to eat it, its not that he didn't care about the joker, he wanted him dead and validation.

>>92873693

He started losing it the moment he got out of the lazarus pit.

>Ironically, Talia also took the place of his biological mom with her manipulation of him.

Don't forget she took advantage of his already messed up state by fucking him.

>What Jason really cared about was to see if Bruce actually loved him.

Yes.
He also had tons of issues.
This all points to him being unstable and clearly mentally ill. He was crazy.

See >>92870949

>>92866022

Why don't Dick and Jason get along? Not the fans but the characters? I started reading comics with the N52 and never got it? jealousy about being Robin?

>>92874151

This is why i disliked Lobdell's Jason, specially during the first years of Nu52 when Lobdell was rewriting Jason entire past. He simple didn't understood the character. His Talia was just helping Jason out of the goodness of her heart, there was the whole magical ninja bullshit that i felt was inelegant as fuck, his childhood was super stupid and convoluted, Jason actually hated the Joker and wanted revenge. I could go on.

>>92874269

The problem is that you're mixing Winick's take with a bunch of other stupid shit that were written at the time by other writers, like Bruce Jones' run on Nightwing where Jason became a tentacle monster.

>>92866022
Can someone tell me why Robin fans so fucking autistic?

>>92874357
Its almost like nu52 was a reboot not beholden to previous continuity

Its not that. He didn't understand the character, its that he like every one else wanted to do their own thing

>>92874534

I understand that, but i still find his take poor as fuck.

>>92874331
Jason is an angry guy who has some selfworth issues

And Dick is the golden boy

Its alittle bit jealousy, but also one gets the impression they were never that close in the first place

Ironicaly lobdell did allot to build up jason and Dicks relationship and other writers ran with that.

>>92874434
They're all relatively popular, compared to most B list characters, as they have nothing else to fight about like Novafags do. It devolves down to which Robin is better, like Flashfags do.

>>92874600
Funny how they wrote Tim to be the most understable with his problems out of the for. I know it's because Tim was almost a saint that that point, but it still makes me smile because it's ironic given Tim's background and character.

>having a costume in a glass display only started after Jason died
>now it's just what everyone does

>>92874600

Yeah this is a pretty good summary. Bruce also did'nt help with the issue with the way him and Dick fought and just giving Jason Robin. It's funny that Jason thinks Dick is a high standard when Dick fucks up all the time ( trusting the wrong people, fucking chicks raw, etc.)

>>92874331

Dick was an asshole brother. Bruce was a asshole dad and Jason has warped perceptions of everything.

>>92874331

That and Jason came into the family at a rough point for Dick. Dick was kinda an asshole teenager, but Jason coming back trying to murder Dick didnt help.

>>92874357
>like Bruce Jones' run on Nightwing where Jason became a tentacle monster.

That was fucking hilarious and horrible.

>The problem is that you're mixing Winick's take with a bunch of other stupid shit that were written at the time by other writers

Well yes, a bunch of stories all together for the same character in the same universe that made up Jason Todd in New Earth.

Also even if we go with just Winick's take, Jason wasn't stable and he clearly had mental health issues. So maybe crazy is too strong of a word, but I wouldn't say he was mentally sound.

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>>92874736
Dick was perfectly okay to Jason dude

>>92874736
>Bruce was a asshole dad
He really wasn't tho, Jason is the only one that got to see nice Bruce unless they retconned that too

>>92874600

>Ironicaly lobdell did allot to build up jason and Dicks relationship and other writers ran with that.

Lobdell did nothing in that regard. It was mostly Tomasi.

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>>92874796

>>92874796

Yeah that's like one of the few times they interacted though.
>>92874805
I meant as asshole to Dick, not Jason. Bruce treated Jason like an actual son.

>>92874805
They aren't. Lobdell is still writing Bruce as a kind of warn but serious father for Jason. I don't know why he says he was terrible to him.

>>92874811

What did Tomasi do for Dick and Jason?
>>92874825

Those are some serious thighs on Jason

>>92874856
So in the few times they interacted, Dick was friendly to Jason and didn't actually act like an asshole towards him

>>92874866

Pretty sure they meant Bruce was an asshole to Dick. Which he was thanks to Dixon.

>>92874891

He was the first to show them interacting after the reboot and sorta getting along. Lobdell only had Dick interacting with Jason in flashbacks to when Jason was Robin and in the tie-in arc for DotF where Dick was hiding from Starfire.

>>92874856
>>92874931
Dick wasn't an active asshole. He does seem sorta distant though. Like a Step brother who lives at College and hardly visits.

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>>92874331

I wrote something about this a while back about Dick being harsh with Jason when Jason came back from the dead.

>>92874856
>Yeah that's like one of the few times they interacted though.
That's because Dick was stuck in NTT then. They liked each other fine originally. It's only later in the 90s Jason becomes increasingly violent as Robin and dick hates him from the start.

>>92874981

I guess I just don't remember the Tomasi parts. I also don't think Lobdell wrote Dick and Jaosn interacting more than once outside of a flashback. So the annual will be inetresting.

>>92875003
Ah I remember this, some good analysis

>>92875023

Lobdell has said he doesn't like Dick very much, you know despite co-opting a bunch of shit from Dick.

>>92875080
>you know despite co-opting a bunch of shit from Dick.

but why

>>92875003

Good analysis anon

>>92875080
Where did he say that?

>>92875187
Because DC decided they wanted to keep Roy and Kori around, but for whatever reason didn't want to put them with Dick. So Jason got them. I'm more inclined to blame DC, why would you try make Starfire an anti-hero?

>>92875187

I don't know why.

He had one of Dick's best friend, Roy, as Jason's new best friend. He was going to have Dick's ex, Kory, as Jason's new fuck-buddy before changing their relationship to platonic. He was going to have another of Dick's love interest, Raven, in the book before being stop by his editor and turning the character into Essence, who was introduced as Jason's ex. He later had another of Dick's love interest, Rose Wilson, show up in the book as Jason's another ex. He even had Jason wearing one of Dick's old suit as his main new suit.

But despite all that he dislike Dick.

>>92875294

The idea came from Bob Harras.

>>92875294
>>92875313

Guys does Lobdell have an older brother?

Can someone find where he said that he dislikes Dick? Just curious, and a bit lazy because I'm sleepy now.

>>92875313

He also was pretty adamant of keeping Dick and Kory as embittered exes that hate each other because according to him old couples don't remain friends after they break up their relationship, and also adamant about Dick never showing in the book if he can be helped.

>>92875423

Comicvine old interviews. He always did special interviews for RHatO there.

There's a comic I'm trying to find this thread just reminded me of,

>Dicks in the afterlife (I think) and he meets dead Jason, they have a quick conversation say goodbye then Jason swings off.

Does anyone tell me which issue that's from with my half-assed description?

>>92875313

He also had Tim show up in the book to as a good and understanding brother to Jason because they've some sort of understanding and later showed Jason and Tim shit-talking Dick.

>>92866022
Was this image designed to make Nightwing's stick weapons look maximum stupid in context to everyone else?

>>92875447
At least now I know where to look. Thank you, anon.

>>92875481
>He also had Tim show up in the book to as a good and understanding brother to Jason because they've some sort of understanding
Bear in mind at the time Lobdell was writing Titans as well, Tim was probably the only character he could crossover with.

>>92875456
FFF I I thow exactly what your talking about, but not where its from.

Tomasi, Seeley, King and to a lesser extent Tynion all worked to have all the Robins being okay with each other.

Tomasi was the first one with his arcs on Batman and Robin where all the Robins would interact because Damian was constantly being a little shit.
Then you had the weekly comics called Batman Eternal and Batman and Robin Eternal written by these guys and some others where all the Robins interacted. Also somewhere there Seeley and King had the Robins, including Jason, dealing with Dick's return in the Grayson book.
Then you had the Robin War cross-over helmed by King and written by these guys as well where once again all the Robins interacted.
Lastly, i think it was Seeley on Nightwing who had Jason and Dick hanging out and talking about Dick's new girlfriend.

Basically, they're all good now. Specially Jason and Dick.

>>92875481
Ya know its the Tim & Dick stuff that bothered me the most. Like Tim saying Jason is the closet thing to a brother. That was awful. Did anyone else hate it?

>>92875483
I always thought they should always be electrified like in the Arkham/Injustice games to make them less dumb.

>>92875589
Yeah it's pissing me off, as I thought I at least had that page saved but I can't find it. And it's a pretty sweet scene between them.

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>>92866022
>blocks your heart

>>92875615

Yeah, i certainly did. I fucking hated Lobdell's take on Tim Drake. It destroyed the character in the long run and made no sense during the course of his run in the Teen Titans book.

He had Tim as this cold and calculating guy that needed no one, specially Batman, whom he hated because he blamed Batman for inspiring the superhero fad along with the Justice League, a fad that was making tons of teenagers, specially meta-human teenagers, go out seeking danger wearing costumes and thus creating tons of problem for normal people and themselves. WHICH MAKES NO SENSE FOR TIM'S CHARACTER! Then throughout his run Tim was constantly shown as this cold guy that used his friends as expandable assets in his schemes.

And yeah, this new Tim only saw Jason as his brother, because like him Jason was the only one willing to do whatever it cost or whatever the bullshit.

>>92875669

Only Timfns should hate Damian Dick and Jason fans should be fine.

>>92875669
>Damian uses a flashbang to stop Wally's heart
>This somehow causes Kid Flash's powers to return and Slade's to temporarily disappear.
>Slade's powers reappear, but Kid Flash still has his
How?

>>92875615

Pretty sure most people hated it

>>92875725

Tim also being a unparalleled genius and Olympic level athlete from the get go that actually wasn't even named Tim for real, that is just the name witness protection gave him before Batman, not Bruce, not adopted, but kidnapped his ass, something that hasn't been addressed since.

I remember back then that people were scared of Lobdell doubling on stupidity and revealing that Tim was related to the Joker, as being something something Napier.

>>92874811
I meant tim sorry

>>92875313

This just makes me feel bad for Jason.
He's almost literally Dick's shadow.
He's almost his clone at this point.

>>92875830

I thought that with Rebirth and Lobdell bringing back Jason's pre-Flashpoint past, that somehow he would give the character a new start where he could grow with these new friends, Bizarro and Artemis, to now be so dependent on Dick's scrapes, but nope. Lobdell constantly reference shit from his past runs, so all that shit with Jason stealing everything from Dick's life for him are all still canon and relevant.

>>92875037
>>92875249

Thank you.

>>92875830
And he's aware of it.

>>92875874
He didt steal shit, the suit was given to him and his relationships with kori and roy have nothing to do with dick, and is built on mutual suffering

>>92875917

The suit that was given to him by Kory belonged to Dick, and his relationship with Roy and Kory is fucking weird, specially when they tried to rewritten things so Dick and Roy were never best friends, the only friend Roy had was Jason.

And it is stealing, in a sense, since Lobdell kept giving shit that belonged to Dick to Jason. Essence was supposed to be Raven, for fuck's sake.

>>92875917
>>92875963

Writers have been doing the same thing with Damian. They've been giving all of Dick's old friends to Damian. Both in the animated movie and current comics.

>>92875874

To me it didn't feel like he was stealing Dick's life, it was more like Dick's life was trying to take him. Like a lot of the things that happened were thrust upon Jason. I don't think Jason wanted to steal Dick's life.

One funny example was Barbara trying to fuck Jason and Jason rejecting her, telling her how she just told him that he'd never be Dick Grayson.

>>92870091

Dorks like that guy just want to see him transition from unique character into a complete faggot like Tim Drake

>>92875963
Roy was still freinds with dick, Jason and Roy ( and kori) just conected over mutual hard lives

Despite what dick fags think the the world dosen't revolve around him.

>>92876029
When it comes to kory and barbra if they even look at other bat related characters autists sperg out like dick owns them

>>92875890

Thats what makes it okay in Rebirth imo. Jason being aware he's an edgy version of Dick.

>>92876029

I'm not saying that Jason, the character, was stealing Dick's life on purpose, but rather that Lobdell was giving pretty much all of Dick's old friends and love interests to Jason.

>>92876032

Lobdell, because of dumb editors, later had to erased Roy and Dick friendship. So Dick and Roy didn't knew each other anymore. Thus Roy best and probably only friend was Jason.

>>92876068

Come on, man. Jason bragging about banging Kory and her not remember Dick or the NTT days in general was done on purpose. Sure, Lobdell went back on it after, but still. And Tynion having Barbara lust for Jason after Dick's death also was done for drama purpose.

>>92876011
I think part of the issue with it is that Beast Boy, Raven and Starfire are closely ties to the Titans. The problem is that, unlike Tim who was part of Young Justice before the four of them joined/became the Titans, Damian only had Kid Flash as the other new guy (and later Jackson)
The animated movies have it a bit less as The Judas Contract establishes that Starfire and Beast Boy were part of Dick's team, meaning Raven is the only outlier there.

>>92876092
Go actualy read the book, roy says he was freinds with dick.

Granted the implication is that roy falling off the wagon chased all his friends away. And Jason gave him a secod chance which was a theme of the book

>>92876144

The biggest problem is that comic writers aren't very imaginative and they tend to be nostalgic as fuck. So when they've a new Robin like Damian, instead of giving him new friends the interact with and establish new kind of dynamics for him, they'd rather just repeat shit that was done with previous Robins, most preferable Dick, since he was the most famous Robin. That's why is rather much more easy to just repeat shit like Damian (Robin) and Raven interaction.

The same for Jason. Just give Jason Dick's friends and be done with it.

>>92876180

That was in the beginning, when the editors decided to retcon out the NTT era away, Dick and Roy past friendship was erased. Dick and Kory past romance was kept probably because that wasn't as easy to erase.

Dick and Roy's past friendship only came back to canon with Titans: Hunt.

>>92876246
Roy talked about dick in the first issue

Read some comics befor u post

>>92876217

Remember how before the reboot there were plans of a book starring Damian, Supergirl, Blue Beetle, Static Shock, Speedy (Wally's daughter) and so on? Man, i wish we had that shit.

>>92876283

Which was erased in the trade because of the retcon. Keep it up.

>>92876328
Post a scan

>>92876068

It's still in poor taste to go after what feels like Dick's younger brother and/or Dick's family-like friend. Also one of Jason's big issues is not being Dick and not being his replacement, which makes matters worse.

>>92876367

Fuck no. Just download it.

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>>92876300
It was Impluse/Irey, but yeah.

>>92876397

See, this is a new and interesting idea that could help differentiate Damian from Dick, instead of giving Damian pretty much the scrapes of the NTT era.

The same goes for Jason. Jason teaming up with Bizzaro and Artemis? That's new and interesting. Jason teaming up with Roy and Kory? That just feels weird. It's like Jason's trying to one-up Dick by taking his old friend and gilfriend.

>>92876300
>a book starring Damian, Supergirl, Blue Beetle, Static Shock, Speedy (Wally's daughter) and so on? Man, i wish we had that shit.

It sounds great.
Like a dream.

>>92876471
Thats sounds like aperfect young justie team

>>92876454
Peoepl can have more then one freind you autist.

Especaily since Jason is only a few years younger then him and he met them when they were still teens/young adults

>>92876393
No fuck you burden of proof is on you. Cause that sounds fake as hell

>>92876300
>Static Shock
Who?

>>92876381
Which is a good thing that Jasons relationship with them is indepent and unique of the one they have with Jason

>>92876558

Jason should have his own friends. I know you're hurt by what i said because you probably liked the first RHatO books, but Jason gaining all of Dick's friends and love interests for him in those books was fucking cringe.

>>92876608

Jason was going to be Roy's best friend and Kory's fuckbuddy before the backlash. How's that any different from him basically taking Dick's spot? Because it all sterned from them being in a bad place and helping each other? Well, look at that. That's pretty much how Dick became best friends with Roy and started dating Kory. They were all going through shit and helped each other growing from that.

>>92876608
>Which is a good thing that Jasons relationship with them is indepent and unique of the one they have with Jason

He needs his own friends.
His own life.
Not just everything Dick had falling down to him.

Jason shouldn't be Dick's shadow.
Like I said, Jason gaining Dick's friends (along with other things) is bad because Jason has issues about not being Dick. Getting Dick's friends instead of his own isn't helping him get away from being in Dick's shadow.

>>92876858
Thing is, on the N52 they weren't Dick friends.

The whole conversation is pointless anyways since the N52 version of Jason is THE portrayal for him now.

>>92876966

But its no longer true for Kory and Roy which is awkward. N52 Jason is fine imo. They weren't

>>92877031
I think Jason and Roy would work together as Bad Cop/Bad Cop and could be pretty good friends. It's just New 52 Roy was a bitch.

>>92876966
>on the N52 they weren't Dick friends.

Wasn't Starfire in a past relationship with Dick?
I'm not too sure what was going on with Roy though. Still terrible shoving Dick's old life onto Jason like that. It's tasteless.

>since the N52 version of Jason is THE portrayal for him now.

Doesn't mean everything about Jason before Nu52 has been erased. Pretty sure Jason still does not want to be in Dick's shadow.

>>92868605
No. She has been banned from there, that's why she is here. She had several new accounts and kept being banned.

>>92877031
Both roy and kory benefited from n52 retconning their shit especaily roy who was pretty much ruined

>>92876611
Like i said people can jave mutual freimds dick dosent fucking own them.

Their relationships are independant

>>92877191

lololol Roy benefited from that Arsenal dead cat crap but not losing Lian and his maturity. Kory did'nt benefit at all.

>>92877249

One of Jason's problems is being Dick's replacement. Getting all of Dick's friends, clothes, love interests: not a good thing. It doesn't help him. He doesn't want to be Dick. Also it's tacky.

I've only read Morrisons Damian run and Tomasi's superman/supersons where Damian feautures. Why is Damian so polarizing? Because he isn't a Dick clone of a standard athletic boy that has 1/2 stand out traits, and has the same personality.

>>92877487
No, because he varies heavily on the writer. For starter's he's a prick, but how much of one varies (Teen Titans, for example, plays him more seriously than most things Tomasi writes does), he canonically has a rivalry with Tim, and some people just feel he's annoying/gets away with too much (though some of what's listed, especially the latter, is a given with bratty characters).
And that's before you factor in the adaptations.

>>92877487
he is basically what Batman-haters think of Batman made character

They're going to fight for 2 panels then be like, we shouldn't fight,

>>92877678

Over what though? Jason hasnt killed in forever.

Are annuals bigger than regular issues or is it just an extra issue?

>>92877726
Probably something like they get in an argument about Tim and get a little heated.

>>92877827

> Jason: I was a better brother to Tim than you!!!!
> Dick: Lies! I talked to Tim like twice.... shit

But really who gives a fuck about Tim. That would be lame.

>>92877726

Pls be over banging Artemis

>>92877678
>pointless fight
>disagree on each other methods
>arguing
>they start acting as a team and then win
>complain about Batman/reminiscing about something Batman related

any other clichés I am missing from these crossovers?

>>92877919
Maybe add a flashback of them bonding to parallel their teamwork in the present.

>>92877678

I expect someone to complain about the other being Batmans favorite.

>>92877919
Artemis and Bizzaro on the sidelines thinking about how dumb it all is.

>>92877726

They still don't like each other though. They only work together because of family problems usually.

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>>92877549
Every single other Robin has used Dick as a template. Except for Damian.

Do people who like Tim realize he's essentially just a shittier version of Dick? Jason Todd fans, I don't really have any beef with, he's unique at the stage where he's at now. But Damian is unique and quite likeable reading Tomasi's run.

>>92878527
And that's the sort of attitude which is why people don't like Damian's fanbase.

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>>92878605
Attitude? Like critiquing Tim?

Tim is a Mary Sue and just basically a "hacker" version of Dick. It's fine to like such a character, I like Rey in Star Wars, doesn't make me a monster. But, every time Damian's name gets brought up, Tim fans always shit on him. For being "unlikable" "able to get away with too much", which I do not think are legitimate character critiques.

I know it's okay to be mad that Tim was sidelined, but holding a vendetta against Damian for it seems childish.

>>92878727
I was moreso referring to the whole "Tim is just a shittier Dick" part. He has his strengths and flaws (moreso prior to the New 52) just the same as any other character.
Regardless of your feelings, a character being unlikable is a legitimate complaint, not just one I've seen come up with Damian. The other thing is more depending on the author: just look at today's Lazarus Contract issue where Damian's plan ended up causing Wally to need a pacemaker.
Also bear in mind, that those are approximations of the complaints.

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>>92878846
How does Tim differentiate from Dick? I mean, I can clearly see they used Dick as a template when designing Tim's character. Just gave him a few different personality quirks and that's it, new character. I mean, Tim isn't that appealing from the outset, looking at him he doesn't really stand apart from anyone, doesn't have many real flaws, very much a Mary Sue.

I'm probably not the best person to have a objective argument with about the Robins, wasn't interested in Tim at all, and currently just reading through the entire Damian run. But to me there are some objective complaints about Tim there. Where as a complaint about Damian being "unlikable" is rather subjective.

I mean, the Punisher, is a very "unlikable" character, everyone hates him. He does illegal things, and is generally a dick. But people don't seem to hate the Punisher compared to the people hating Damian. The Punisher also gets treated a bit like royalty by Marvel. In the netflix tv show he beats up Daredevil. In the comics he's treated as a big shot "hero", while he just takes down mob members. Maybe not to the extent to the attention Damian gets but it's still much higher then a person for his stature gets.

Point being, I feel like people saying that they think Damian is unlikable is a reflection to their favorite character thinking Damian is unlikable, and I do not think that is a fair way to critique Damian.

>>92866155
Tim sucks.

Let him stay gone

>>92879053
He just needs flaws to work with and drama that, hopefully, will be served thanks to Oz's kidnapping. Let's see how they bring him back, because they clearly will sooner or later in the next year. In both current timeline and Beyond, I bet.

>>92879046
The thing about Tim was, in the beginning, he had his own dynamic to the Robin mantle (note I haven't read Tim's solo Robin series, so I'm going off of general information): He had his relationship with the Young Justice team and Steph & Cass, he had his own car, he had to balance his time as Robin with his time at home/normal life. There's a reason people point to Identity Crisis as the first domino in the path leading to Tim getting neutered as a character. In particular, your criticisms of Tim can stand to also be subjective (though, I suppose that depends on how much of Tim you've read).

I don't read The Punisher, but he's probably got reasons for being popular, such as the way he kills criminals and whatnot. Also, Punisher's adapted forms are probably still close to the character and what made him good in the first place. Damian doesn't have that luxury, despite the clear push DC/WB's been giving him with Injustice and the DTVs.

>>92879267
>your criticisms of Tim can stand to also be subjective

Absolutely they can, I do not claim to be 100% right about a character. You are also correct in assuming I haven't read much about Tim, rather because I find Tim very bland and it feels like it's just a younger Dick. Not a particularly interested in reading about that sort of dynamic character.

You are right about the Punisher vs Damian comparison, but that is also my complaint. That people don't differentiate the view points. Damian in his mind thinks he's doing the right thing, even as brutal as it might seem, like what he did to Wally. Just like when Punisher kills he sees it as doing the right thing.

It's probably due to bad writing that this doesn't really get pointed out to the audience. I think Tomasi does it the best with Damian in Supersons.

>38 IPs
>340 reply
Mods are cucks.

>>92872555
So you hate the character because you hate the fanbase?
You're worse than the people you just described.

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>>92872612
>fuck you Damien stop showing everyone my old costume
lol