Was it Batman's fault?

Yes, and that is why its so cool.

>>92790352
Well he's the one who trained a child soldier, so yeah.

>>92790352
No.

>>92790369
To be fair, Jason died running off on his own, against Batman's orders, looking for his mom. There's every chance that Jason would've died anyway if Batman had left him on the streets. Or would've grown up to be as calloused as he is now anyway.

>>92790352
Technically it was the fans' fault, as they literally voted for this

>>92790352
Over the years this has been said to be Jason's own fault by writers and editors, because Jason disobeyed Batman. Dennis O'Neil has even said that Jason "in a way, got what he was asking for."

>>92790425
>>92790433
These, though Batman is also at fault for letting children fight lunatics like the Joker.

Jason didn't hold it against him, though. At least, outside of Arkham Knight.

>>92790425
But batman knew this was going to happen, Jason was an unstable prick since day 1 and he deeply knew that one day it would kill him yet decided still to train him.

>>92790433
>The following issue, Batman #428, was published featuring Todd's death. Years later, O'Neil would admit hundreds of votes in the "Jason Dies" line came from a single person, adding a large degree of uncertainty to the honesty of results regarding a poll designed to determine the character's popularity. "I heard it was one guy, who programmed his computer to dial the thumbs down number every ninety seconds for eight hours, who made the difference", O'Neil said in a Newsarama interview conducted alongside writer Judd Winick during the "Under The Hood" arc. Based on O'Neil's information, that figures out to 320 votes over eight hours from one person or roughly six percent of the death line's total calls.

Always makes me laugh

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I blame the crowbar.
Naa Its not his fault... almost every Robin has went against Batman's orders and almost died in the process, Todd is just the unlucky one.

>>92790352

Any more pictures of Batman holding his Dick?

I'd say the blame for his death belongs to the fans.

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>>92790352
Nothing Batman could have done.

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>>92790592
That's not Dick, you ningen.

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Who was in the wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kscfb9XzPs

>>92790515
I'd pay to see what the one guy's reaction was to Jason becoming Red Hood and becoming more popular than ever

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>>92790352
The bloodthristy fans.

>>92790785
The criminal justice system.

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>>92790496
Batman was AFRAID it would happen. He'd have been irresponsible not to been afraid of that possibility.

If you actually read the comics of the 80s, you'd know Jay had his good days and his bad (even if only because he went through multiple writers) and that Bruce genuinely wanted to save him from his worst tendencies.

I know it's popular to blame Batman for all the problems in Gotham City, but I prefer the idea that Gotham is just fucked up - and that Jason Todd, who himself says he doesn't blame Bruce for his death, is more interesting as an example of nature vs. nurture. Y'know, you can take the boy out of Crime Alley, but you can't take the Crime Alley out of the boy - that Jason represents Batman's greatest failure not just because he died, or because he uses his training to kill now, it's because Bruce really did love Jason like a son and do his damnedest to save him from himself... and he failed.

>>92790352
Dem feet nawh
And he never blamed B for dying either

>>92790785
Judd Winick.

Jason's death was not his fault, Damian and jason have died Because their mothers are cunts,

>>92790515
>320 votes
>>92790671
>50c per vote

160$? Seems alright. Which character would you pay 160$ to have violently crowbarred /co/?

>>92790671
Who the fuck even came up with this idea in the first place.
>tfw one dude is responsible for Red hood
Timelines are a funny thing

>>92791047
Riri and Carol Danvers

Do you think Jason would still be a monster if when he came back to life, he'd discovered that Batman had killed Joker?

>>92791047
>160$? Seems alright. Which character would you pay 160$ to have violently crowbarred /co/?
not my jason .
I would pay 160$ for for Game Batman not comic batman.

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>>92790671
https://youtu.be/bcQNwB3o4Zo?t=13m47s

>>92791099
Yes, it'd just reinforce that killing is always the best option

>>92791126
>beaten with a crowbar
>blown up
>has a building collapse on him
>"He's alive!"

how

>>92791168
You can post the scan With the youth office guy Who wanted the bruce to go to prison,

>>92791168
what is this from?

>>92790515
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK7vhmeyzCA

>>92791177
Yeah, people try to defend Jason's position by pointing out the "I'm not talking about killing Harvey, or Penguin!" bit, but he'd already directly or indirectly killed a shitload of street-level criminals who were WAY less of a threat than Two-Face or Penguin would be... so yeah, killing is/was basically his go-to solution.

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>>92790881
Jason was a great Robin.

>>92790592
Your joke was bad, and it made me feel bad and you should feel bad. You cock-smoking ass burglar.

>>92791338
Yeah but he wasn't justifying his own killing, he was questioning how come Bruce didn't kill the Joker.
Jason probably would have killed Dent and Penguin, but he didn't expect Bruce to do so.

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>>92791350
Fuck it, storytiming that issue. It's really relevant to this thread.

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I wish more writers remembered that Crime Alley used to be upscale Park Row back when the Waynes were murdered.

>>92791452
Based storytime anon, thank you

>>92791452
yeah bring it

>>92791502
>Crime Alley used to be upscale Park Row
It was? Modern Batcomics tend to frame it as the Waynes just randomly deciding to cut through Crime Alley.

Why does anyone in the hero community as well as the GCPD, let Batman use Child Soldiers in universe.

Like I get it's just a comic and you should hand wave it, but come on.

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This was the first appearance of Leslie post-Crisis BTW. Originally she saw so old she was tiny and hunched.

>>92791569
That's my beef. Motherfuckers forgot about shit, so now they think they have to "justify" why the Waynes walked through a place called Crime Alley. The whole concept of Crime Alley was introduced in a story about how Park Row used to be a nice neighborhood, and then the Waynes' murders was like an omen of it going to shit.

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>>92791280
You mean this?
>>92791317
Gotham Knights #45

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Sorry 'bout the delay.

>>92791452
>>92791834
Aw fuck, you're storytiming, sorry m8.

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I really love this first-person depiction of the origin story. Especially another old forgotten detail, that Bruce just straight up scared off Joe Chill by giving him the Bat-eye.

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>>92791873
S'alright, we're well below the image limit.

>>92790352
If only someone had killed the Joker...

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They de-aged Leslie here as well.

>>92790569
>I blame the crowbar.
I am sick and tired of people blaming the crowbar. The crowbar was only used to beat him up, it was the time bomb that killed Jason and his mom.

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For those perplexed by this page, it's set-up for the controversial Year Two storyline that follows, in which Bruce uses the gun that killed his parents and teams up with Joe Chill.

Later retcons had him steal it from the GCPD evidence locker as Batman.

>>92792222
Tha'st when he's fighting the reaper, the guy in red studded leather, right?

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So much of modern Leslie Thompkins' characterization can be traced to this one issue... her genuinely compassionate caring for Bruce, while simultaneously disapproving of his methods and especially his use of sidekicks, her expanded role as the surrogate mother to Alfred's surrogate father, all that came from this story.

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And that's the long way of telling OP "no".

>>92792765
Thanks for the storytime, hadn't read this one before.

>>92790352
To certain degree it was: as a tutor and fatherly figure, he wasn't enough for Jason, and as a mentor, he couldn't teach him to mistrust people that suddently appear and go claiming stuff, and he clearly didn't teach him to trust his allies to that kind of risky actions, because traveling to another country, a dangerous one, without anyone to help, being a minor, is the definition of risk.

But it was also Jason's fault to a certain degree, because he was naive, and impatient, and proud. Which is normal for a teenager with his problems.

But most of all, it was Joker and Sheila's fault.

>>92791193
He's a persistent motherfucker. You should know by now.

>>92790352
Yeah. Maybe you shouldn't fucking use children in your war against crime Bruce. How the fuck do Gordon and Alfred reconcile this shit? It's one thing for Bruce to dress up like a bat and fight crime but to use kids? That's pretty fucked up and I don't know why people aren't lobbying Gordon to arrest Batman for endangering a minor.

>>92790352
So after this what happened? Like what happened directly after this? I've always wanted to read the after effects of Jason dying, how do Bruce and Alfred justify this to themselves? Is this why Bruce became so fucking edgy? Does he Hunt the Joker down after this?

>>92791594
Wally called him out on it. It's not like Bruce gives a shit what other people think of him though.

>>92791834
What the fuck Bruce? Why didn't you preptime this shit?

Also it's nice that someone actually bothered to follow up on Todd mysteriously dying instead of just not caring.

>>92792018

How did we get this far down the thread before anyone thought to blame Joker for his own actions? What's wrong with everyone else?

>>92793587
Why don't you read A Death In The Family and find out?

>>92792061
This is a really creepy version of Jason's Robin induction. It almost reads like him getting indoctrinated into a cult. The Cult of Batgod I guess. Maybe it's just the coloring.

>>92793772
Capefags.

>>92792352
>Have you ever thought about what your father would say if he knew?
Well that makes The Button a lot more touching.
>If we knew that would either of us be here?
Wew lad.

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>>92793830
Fuck you, the candlelight oath is one of the most iconic elements of the Robin backstory.

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>>92793912
It's a deliberate throwback to Batman's own origins.

>>92790352
>Was it Batman's fault?
the phone bill for the only 900 number I ever called says otherwise
> no regrets

>>92793819
I thought Death in the Family only covered the events leading up to Jason's Death and then his actual death. Does it go in to what happens afterwards?

>>92793912
That looks a lot less creepy so I'm going to say it was just the coloring or the knowledge that Jason ends up dying that "colored" my perceptions of youll forgive the lame pun.

>>92793912
The oath is probably my favorite thing from classic batman that gets redone in modern stuff.

Did Tim and Damian ever take the Oath? I know that Babs made Stephanie do it.

>>92794044
Jason dies like Maybe 3/5th into the story, with the last part being Batman going apeshit.

And then almost every detective comics story after shows Bruce being a mopey mess after this until about Tim Drake enters the picture.

>>92794208
Fuck. Alright I'll go get Death in the Family. I really wanted to read the part in between Jason's death and Tim getting the job. Stuff like how Gordon, Alfred, and Dick react.

>>92792188
>that shadow
Noice

Thanks for the storytime, named anon. It was a nice issue I didn't read before.

>>92794333
The only thing between A Death In The Family and A Lonely Place of Dying is maybe Batman #430 and the Present-Day stuff during Batman Year Three, which covers when Bruce met Dick and he became Robin.

>>92790352
yes

and the readers at the time for voting to off Todd

>>92792026
This is Alan Davis, you're lucky he didn't draw her smothering Bruce in her cleavage

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>>92790352
Maybe

>>92794433
>and the readers at the time for voting to off Todd
it was my pleasure

>>92792765
Thank you for posting this.
Storytimes are rarely used to prove a point.
Not that that should be needed but,
after all, most of /co/ doesn't read comics.

>>92790881
>for all the problems in Gotham City, but I prefer the idea that Gotham is just fucked up

Imagine for five minutes Batman growing up in Hub City instead

>>92790515
>The more things change, the more they stay the same.

>>92791060
Jason was an incredibly unpopular character, so they decided to hold what amounted to a popularity contest to see if he was worth keeping around

>>92794606
This. Damian would have had a better chance with fans like us back then because while he's a little overpowered asshole and a murderer, he also has something Jason never ever had: charisma.

>>92790496
If Batman didn't train Jason, Robin would not have saved the world from Mongul and humanity would have been enslaved.

>>92790352
>Was it Batman's fault

ALWAYS

>>92790477
If I knew my dead mom actually alive, I would also disobeyed Batman too. No matter if it means "I'm asking for it"

>>92791337
How WOULD Bat-Mite have voted? On the one hand he's an unrepentant fan of all things Bat, but on the other he'd recognize Jason Todd as the knock-off he originally was.

>>92798434
Why didn't Batman just get a new mom for Jason?

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>>92790352

Only partially.

Of course it is

>>92799155
Wouldn't be his biological mother which as the point of the whole search in the first place.

How to read Batman correctly?
Just the "Batman" magazine or Detective Comics is important too?

>>92799537
Currently? Batman by Tom King is entirely focused on Bruce. Tec is a team up book focused more on the Batfamily as a whole. Both do their own plotlines but there are crossovers sometimes.

>>92790837
>his smile and optimism: denied

>>92792129
Actually, thanks to that kind anon with the inside scoop on O'Neil's revelation that it was actually a guy using a phone auto dialer and a computer.

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>>92792269
>>92792222

It was story-timed a month or two ago.

>>92792765
Thanks Spook! You are what all of us should aspire to be.

>>92794730

This!

>>92799155
Why didn't Batman BECOME his mom?

>>92802900
Was it any good

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>>92790515
This guy indirectly created Red Hood. Good man.