Series Finales

As rushed as Regular Show's seemed it really didn't leave anything to still question after it, and I have to respect that. I enjoyed the Samurai Jack ending as well, but I did feel like a few minor changes could've made it a lot better, even if it still didn't acknowledge the old characters

>>92774069
Best: Gravity Falls

Worst: Samurai jack

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>>92774069

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Gravity Falls ending sucked and was pretentious liberal bullshit. Second worst.

Dunno what the top right is.

Regular Show's ending was great, with a meaningful sacrifice and a happy ending for all. Best.

Samurai Jack's ending was a glib facsimile of anime and made an attempt at a sacrifice/bittersweet ending that was almost hilarious in its abruptness and terrible execution. Worst by far.

>>92774427
>liberal
how?

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they were all kind of mediocre in their own way. i guess people have trouble writing finales. i'd go RS > WoY > GF > SJ

what are some of the most well-done finales, /co/? pic related.

>>92774442
>gay cops and the tranny girl marrying a prince are the only romance that ended
>DUDE THE NORTHWESTS ARE EVIL AND DESERVE TO BE PUNISHED WORSE THAN GIDEON LMAO

>>92774324
Fucking knew this would happen.

Despite the rush, SJ did't have Mabel shitting thigns up. You fuckers just think this because SJ's ending is the new hotness.

>>92774531
>muh Mabel
Apeface was worse.

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>>92774531
true but it did have ashi shitting things up which isn't much better

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>>92774324
>>92774427
>>92774462
>>92774531
>>92774586
lmao @ the samurai jack butt hurt patrol always being good and quick to show up to bitch because they didn't get their OTP ending.

just because you morons are too stupid to get the point doesn't mean the ending was bad. it means your stupidity is even worst than you thought. fuck off and grow up.

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>>92774730
>screamball reaction image
Figures. Just because something references anime doesn't make it good.

>>92774069
Regular>Wander>Jack>Gravity

>>92774069
>Those 4 choices
Damn this is a hard one for me OP.

>Wander ending
They did not turn the ultimate villain good on a brim, which is nice considering the "everybody-can-be-a-friend" nature of the show. However, it left me slightly empty enside (it really deserved that 3rd fucking season).

>Gravity ending
I think they really gave closure to the key points they had stablished over the course of 2 seasons, even if some were rushed, but they really handled Gideon poorly (the change of heart didn't make much sense to me), the Mabel bubbleland arc was kinda tedious to watch, Bill turned into a god-moron just because the plot needed it and they completely removed all the stakes that the stan-memory-loss situation built up to because disney shows must have happy endings and bittersweet is not allowed.

>Regular ending
It felt exactly how I remember the show from the time I used to watch it, so it didn't disappoint in spirit and gave satisfying closure. The finale itself doesn't have many faults but is rather my own fault for not keeping up with the show by the last seasons, my experience with the last ep felt disjointed because of it.

>Samurai ending
It was what I expected on general terms: jack goes back to the past, kills aku, his journey ends. I liked that they ended it on a bittersweet note for jack, seemed appropiate somehow. However, while I always wanted Aku to go out like a bitch but I expected at least a single DAMN YOU SAMURAI or AAAAAARGH or something from the half-aku trying to creep away as it was sliced. Instead got just the blinking eyes sound effect.

Eh, I guess regular show is the best based on what I look for on a finale, but I enjoyed gravity fall's the most the first time I watched it, even with all its flaws, so one of these is my favorite but I don't know which one.

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>>92774730
>Look at my superior intellect
>As I defend this predictable asspullish unsatisfying conclusion
You truly are the bigger guy.

>>92774766
nice strawman, retard. you refuted nothing btw. no argument. go fuck yourself.

>>92774823
not an argument either. just a bunch of bitching and whining from someone too stupid to refute anything.

>>92774767
this

>>92774306
This. Though, to me, I think the finales for WOY and Gravity Falls are more underwhelming, maybe because the two shows got cancelled for different reasons. Though, to me, all four finales are still satisfying. Not perfect, but pretty good.

>>92774730
It's less about SJ being bad (which it is) and more about GF ever being the ebst out of all of those.

Regular Show > HUGE POWER GAP > Samurai Jack > Gravity Falls
Funny how the most hated show of the three had a better, more satisfying ending than these. I haven't seen WoY.

>>92774069
Regular Show's ending manages to be the most conclusive and satisfying despite the show's quality compared to the other three.

>>92774069
Regular Show>>Wander>>Samurai Jack>>Gravity Falls.

>>92774730
>even worst
Opinion discarded.

>>92777040
>refutes nothing
>finds a typo
>has the biggest "aha" moment of this 13 year life

congratulations, squirt. you've accomplished nothing and failed in particularly stellar fashion at making an argument. now fuck off and go to bed. you're playing over your head here.

>>92774069
>no Brave and Bold ending mentioned
Good, fucking hate that series, doesn't deserve it

>>92774069
Best Ending: Regular Show
Worst Ending: Gravity Falls

Samurai Jack is easily my favorite out of all the series, and one of my favorite cartoons, but the finale was disappointing to me.

>people saying the RS finale was the best
>hope: returning

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>>92774069

>>92777879
>didn't watch the only good one

>>92774730
>fuck off and grow up.

...he says while arguing on an imageboard about cartoons.

>>92779074
>you are in this shitty toilet, as i am
>therefore, i have the moral high ground

nice cognitive dissonance, idiot. also, you didn't make an argument. go away, retard.

>>92774427
>Dunno what the top right is
This makes me sad...

>>92774470

But gideon spent two seasons being punished, he even went to jail. Actual jail. And then he was tormented by 2D Eldritch Apocalypse less than 2 days after non-stop.

And pacifica will be happier now her parents can't force her to do all the bullshit procedural stuff just for eating dinner or something.

And both of those pairings were extremely comical; hell, Grenda's literally the only representation I can think of for awkward puberty, and homosexual couples in a small 'hick' town isn't exactly a controversial stereotype even if they were even mildly graphic with it (which they weren't).

Besides, Gideon looks like a mini me of Drumpf himself, right down to the criminal associates (minus the orange).

>>92779775
>Drumpf
Oliver, please. The merchandise never really took off, you can stop forcing this meme.

>>92774730
My dude, people don't hate it because OTP. People hate it because they used their time like ass, it was anticlimactic, predictable and the ending was literally Gurren Lagann.

It would have been much, much better if Ashi had just faded when Aku died. Instead, we got something like three minutes of wedding garbage that was direct from TTGL, but executed worse. They spent more time preparing for the wedding and having her walk down the aisle than they did fighting Aku. Hence the bad time management. That also segues into anticlimactic; the struggle against Aku didn't feel like much of a struggle. It was over far too quickly and didn't utilize the choreography and style the show was good for.

>>92774390
Why was the English dub so superior to to Jap? Why did Japan hate this? Why did we never get a live action spinoff with Ian Sinclair in a van?

>>92774069
Best: Brave and the Bold.
Worst: Gravity Falls.

>>92774069
The one I remember was the finale of the Captain Falcon cartoon. Punching a hole through a galaxy.

Regular Show was the best show in general. Had a solid story with very lovable characters. Even with Mordecai's season 6 fuck ups I still really like the guy. Rigby is based and so is everyone else. Pops dying actually made me cry and watching all these characters and themes get closure was quite satisfying. They could have had more episodes to expand but it's fine the way it is. I'd put it second to ATLA and above Samurai Jack.

Samurai Jack's finale was good but just so fucking rushed. Why couldn't the finale been an hour? It just ended pretty stupidly too. No characters other than Jack got a proper send off either. It felt hollow, Aku didn't even get to have one last battle with Jack. Lame.

Gravity Falls was great but didn't even try to give closure. There's still a possibility Bill's out there, aliens, etc. Plus wasting a half hour on Mabel was fucking stupid as hell. What's the point. Grumble Stan getting his memory back kind of pissed me off though, no sacrifices at all then? Still pretty good on it's own and the ending got tears out of me.

Wander's was fantastic and was the perfect way to end it. Continuing the cycle of the cat and mouse game between Hater and Wander and allowing us to imagine all of the future adventures with them was nice. Good stuff and I have to watch the whole show again at some point.

>>92780078
It was largely made for Amerifats though.

worst is without a doubt jack's
THIRTEEN YEARS

>>92778528
Not him but I don't know how anyone could watch Regular Show for its entire run and not get bored out of their mind enough to drop it. It was fine at first but the episode formula and romantic subplots got old after the thousandth time.

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>>92774069
Only watched SJ and Gravity Falls endings. Didn't watch Regular Show been meaning to but kept forgetting. Never paid attention to Wonder.

Mabel dragged it on way too much but I liked it nonetheless.

Everyone coming to help Jack was nice, felt a bit rushed but I still liked it despite almost everyone's criticisms.

Can't you just like cartoons, if they are ass they show themselves being ass like nuPPG.

>>92774069
WOY was a pretty good season finale, but an eh series finale

GF was a disappointment all around

Regular Show surpassed its low bar of expectations pretty easily

I personally like SJ's ending, though it was mildly disappointing

>>92774427
What was pretentious about it?

>>92774069
I don't even recognize top right.

>>92774559
Mabel caused the apocalypse, while Ashi helped prevent it

>>92776413
It had the lowest bar of expectations

>>92774069
Regular Show > Wander >>> Samurai Jack > Gravity Falls.

Also, it's kind of sad that so many people in this thread don't recognize WoY.

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Samurai Jack's conclusion was good, but that finale definitely needed to be a two-parter or an hour long special or something. I understand Jack's a noble guy who wants to get back to the past, but I was hoping they would at least properly address shit like how he'll lose his old friends like the Scotsman once he goes back. I would have preferred if he came to terms with having to leave Ashi as a result of killing Aku BEFORE they went through the portal, rather than going through the portal, killing Aku, and having some dramatic wedding ceremony only for the time paradox to finally settle in as a big fuck you.

They also did nothing with the Guardian and his portal (despite it being one of the few episodes in the original series that held some sort of overall plot significance) which sucks too, I'm guessing showing the portal destroyed and the Guardian dead was just Genndy's way of saying he killed the concept.

Never followed WoY closely, so fuck it. I abstain.
Gravity falls worst
Samurai jack above GF.
RS the best out of the bunch.

The only downside to the samurai jack ending is that there wasn't that "Good bye, thanks for everything, samurai" closure in SJ. In restrospect it was basically done in episode 7, when ashi went to find jack. You got to see how people appreicated his deeds and how beloved it was.

It just felt ill-timed because it wasn't at the end of the series. Then again I can't really say they should have done it because at no one did they have a chance to, everyone was fucking dying and it was either fuck off right there or kill aku in that time, and look at the mass grave that now laid in front of jack whic

>>92782971
>mass grave that now laid in front of jack which I'm sure would have fucked him up even more knowing that those were his close friends that he cared for and saved at one point and they all killed themselves to see him win.

Gravity falls was just horribly rushed when you had all these hints of mystery to explore and fun things to see, and it felt like when the right was getting good, it came to an abrupt stop and said "Yep, it's done get off."

No idea how I magically submitted a half-typed post but whatever.

>>92774069
Surprised nobody has posted Phantom Planet for worst yet

Well, WoY was my favorite show of the bunch and the finale was great but it was so obviously not the finale that it felt empty still. I haven't been 100% please with a cartoon's ending since maybe EEnE or something.

RS>WoY>GF>>>>>Jack

>>92781329
>went over my head
>pretentious
that's about it.

>>92780164
he actually didn't.
he punched the doomsday weapon do get rid of it and to be absolutely sure the villain would be dead
That radiant light was the bomb exploding, taking C. falcon with it.

>>92783851
That's because Phantom Planet was decent. Certainly not the best, but definitely not the worst. Simply lost in the purgatory of mediocrity.

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>>92774069
Pretty much any show that just ends on a random episode has a pretty series finale.

>Batman TAS

>>92774069
Gravity falls ending seemed rushed, like they missed out a BUNCH of episodes and just had to make do with what they already had, we see almost nothing of six finger Stan and the magic circle stuff only half makes sense. that mixed with the unfinished story lines makes it kind of lame, 6/10

Wander over Yonder's ending felt a lot more like a season finale than a true ending, quite a few unresolved stories/backstories that had been hinted at, wander and hater being the most obvious examples, that said, the actual episode was really good, no massive ass pulls, just pre-defined story elements, like haters powers getting stronger as he gets angrier, the Wander/Dominator half of the episode was pretty good too, as it was focused on trying to ruin wander, but ended up backfiring on Dominator.
all in all pretty good, at least 9/10

Regular show had a fun ending, the entire show was strange about stuff happening, so it all fit pretty well into the narrative, and the final sacrifice was equally unexpected and well done, not much else to say about it though 8/10

Samurai Jack was a bit of a disappointment, the first 3-4 episodes were AMAZING and seemed to be continuing the main theme from the original series, but with the short run-time they had to rush the actual story side, and it seems like a lot of the set-up was given very little pay-off, the pacing was a bit poorly done and the focus on Scaramouch, while funny, wasted quite a bit of the already short time. a lot of the Ashi stuff could have been better done with other old characters, but doing so would ruin her story. its a shame they just removed the Guardian as he was the only actual plot point we had of the future
the final episode, when taken by itself and not considering all the older seasons is pretty well done, the return of the old allies is well done and the Scotsman coming back was well done, if a bit wasted for the amount of screen time he got.
to sum it all up:
Final season 5/10
Final episode 7/10

>>92786893
>9/10
>pretty good
ratings mean nothing nowadays do they?

>>92786985
went back later and changed it from a 7, because i remembered how much fun it was watching it the first time, which none of the other 3 really managed to pull off, but i forgot to change it from pretty good to really good

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>>92782168
>but I was hoping they would at least properly address shit like how he'll lose his old friends like the Scotsman once he goes back

His friends were already dead by the time he left, the only people that weren't brutally slaughtered were the Scotsmam's daughters, but it was obvious they were next. Trying to stop a fully powered Aku when they can just finish him off while he's weak is asinine, especially where's there's little to nothing to fight for in the future at that point.

>RS finale
>good

Would have been without the unnecessary shit epilogue.

>>92787104
Not him but it was really mediocre, especially compared to episodes 1-3, you just have low standards.

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>>92786893
>Final season 5/10

Please tell me this is bait. I know the season had problems but even with the flaws it's still one of the best cartoons in years, and without question the best reboot. The fact that it didn't end up like ACTUAL dumpster fires like the PPG, Korra, Thundercats, etc is nothing short of a miracle.

>>92787104
Not that anon, but it's a continuation not a reboot, and save for the animation quality I'd actually say season 5 is weaker than the other 4 seasons. the first 3 episodes are borderline perfect but the rest seem like a weak attempt to recapture what what done better in the rest of the series.

Also recent years have been goddamn awful for cartoons. If you rate according to that you will only suffer from increasingly declining standards.

>>92787140
The season as a whole was fine though. You could call the ending disappointing, sure, but to call the entire season shit because it didn't end the way you wanted it to is insane, especially when the ending actually makes sense with what it built up to. Again, there have been a lot of terrible reboots in recent years, but this is without question one of the better ones.

>>92787202
5/10 isn't shit, it's dead center average
I think at some point we've begun to forget what numbers mean

I wonder if SU will end with this exact same kind of BIG FINAL FIGHT or if they're going to go against expectation like they usually do and do something actually good

>>92774427
>Gravity Falls ending sucked and was pretentious liberal
Is there any reason to keep reading or is this enough to figure that you're an ass

>>92787202
>especially when the ending actually makes sense with what it built up to
The thing is the build up was bad. Yes the ending was the best for what they could've possibly done given the direction of the season, but that's because the season as a whole was clunky. The disappointing finale was just the symptom of the greater issues of the season as a whole.

>>92787240
I doubt SU will have a final fight. It's not really an action show

>>92787240
Same for Adventure Time

>>92787171
>and save for the animation quality I'd actually say season 5 is weaker than the other 4 seasons

That is objectively false. The other 4 seasons were episodic and predictable. There were select good episodes, but it went absolutely nowhere and it showed. This season at the very least tried to tell an overarching story, something the original should've done to begin with. I'm not saying they were bad, but they certainly weren't better in terms of quality. It's about even, as both have their strengths. But to treat the original as some sort of holy grail of animation is absurd. Hell, people were shit talking this show when it came out.

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You don't know shit about shitty finales you see this shit that's right fuck you eat my ass you cunts

>>92787152
Samurai Jack wasn't a reboot.
The backlash results from a similar deal as with Korra's book 1; the first few episodes looked very promising, it gave people high hopes and raised their expectations, but the rest of the season failed to deliver on the same level. Sure, the show felt very much like old Samurai Jack, but everyone was expecting a little bit more because it was initially presented that way.

It shouldn't be impossible to do an amazing and satisfying cartoon ending. For example Batman: Brave and the Bold managed to pull it off.

>>92787304
>The other 4 seasons were episodic and predictable
Why is that bad? It was very good at that format and you can tell from season 5 Genndy was not good at the extended narrative he was trying to accomplish there which perplexes me since symbionic titan was better at it
I'm not saying the orginal run was some 10/10 masterpiece; it was just better at what it was trying to be than season 5 was at what it was trying to be. Having an overarching plot does not automatically make a work better than it's episodic counterparts

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>>92787223
The fuck is your idea of average? What are you even comparing it to? I've already stated that it's one of the best reboots/continuations, because the average there is ranges from terrible to outright unwatchable. Even just comparing cartoons as a whole, it's still somewhat above average. It's not the best, but it's certainly better than the usual, and leagues better then the majority of garbage on [as].

>>92787382
The first few episodes of Korra weren't that promising. It was entirely the concept and the hype train that followed that made people expect something amazing
I warned you fucks but you still ate that shit up

>>92787304
>episodic and predictable
Nobody appreciated the original show for the plot, most of us watched it for the style, the way the stories were told. It used to build up atmosphere. care about details and have proper pacing. Season 5 lacked all of that and that's why it's worse, it lacks what made it good in the first place.

>>92787426
Compared to animation as a whole, as in including anime, french toons etc, it's very mediocre.
Personally I would've given Jack a 6 or 7/10, but I can see why anon might've given it a 5, especially with the strictly inferior gurren lagann ending

>>92787304
s5 was trying to be both episodic with monster of the week shit while also having an overarching plot, and it diminished the quality of both in the process

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>>92787426
>The only good episodes were the first three
>Spends at least 40ish minutes on filler (with episode 6 and 4, not even counting all the individual filler moments peppered throughout the rest of the series like the part where the Scotsman's daughters are being listed) and is then promptly rushed to shit at all the important parts
>Jack's phantom arc conclusion was rushed and unsatisfying, with the phantom just being another shitty monster-of-the-week ghost to kill
>Jack's inner demons/redemption arc, arguably the most developed arc in the show, was even more rushed and unsatisfying, having Jack kill brutal character flaws that developed over 50 years, from suicidal tendencies to blinding rage, in 15 seconds with eye lasers
>Ending was just a bad ending to GL
>Finale was (surprise, surprise) rushed and unsatisfying, giving us the "power of love" trope at its worst, a bunch of shitty cameos that we don't care about nearly as much as Jack fighting Aku instead of, you know, fucking Jack, a fanfiction-tier asspull with the Aku's powers garbage, an unsatisfying death for Aku (how they fucked that up is beyond me) and nonsensical writing (Ashi disappearing only at the wedding, haha)
>Show adds a deuteragonist and tries to focus on both her and the MC, taking potential screentime away from him, the antagonist, and more so that we get to watch an underdeveloped, boring, Mary Sue
If Samurai Jack is one of the best reboots, shoot me.

>>92787791
>Jack's phantom arc conclusion was rushed and unsatisfying, with the phantom just being another shitty monster-of-the-week ghost to kill
It wasn't even that much. There was absolutely no explanation as to what Honda was or why it was trying to sudoku Jack. easily the worst part of the season.

>>92774427
>pretentious liberal bullshit
opinion discarded.

Gravity Falls was best if you ignore the fact that the entire ending arc was utter garbage. The top-right and bottom-left shows are literally who so who cares, automatically worse than samurai jack which I haven't even watched.

>>92787791
>Spends at least 40ish minutes on filler (with episode 6 and 4, not even counting all the individual filler moments peppered throughout the rest of the series like the part where the Scotsman's daughters are being listed) and is then promptly rushed to shit at all the important parts

Just because you do not like something does not make it filler.

>>Jack's phantom arc conclusion was rushed and unsatisfying, with the phantom just being another shitty monster-of-the-week ghost to kill

You expected something long and drawn out, you didn't get it, so you hate it.

>Jack's inner demons/redemption arc, arguably the most developed arc in the show, was even more rushed and unsatisfying, having Jack kill brutal character flaws that developed over 50 years, from suicidal tendencies to blinding rage, in 15 seconds with eye lasers

You expected something long and drawn out, you didn't get it, so you hate it.

>Ending was just a bad ending to GL
Ending was Jack doing what he set out to do all along and accomplishing his life goal.

>I wanted a climactic battle for Aku

You wanted something long and drawn out, and you didn't get it. You expected Aku to throw down with Jack when it's been shown over and over throughout the show that Aku is never a match for Jack and that's why he always runs away and came up with schemes to beat him through proxies. If Aku could take on Jack he wouldn't have bothered with any of that. The only reason the show happened at all was because Jack hesitated to kill Aku in the first place.

>Ashi takes time away from jack

Ashi developed Jack's character and you didn't like that you can explore a character using another one. There was little to do with Aku and yet you wanted him to spend more time moping.

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>>92787029
Quiet Peabody, your show finale blows up the world for no reason.

Has any finale of anything ever satisfied /co/?

>>92788278
nope

>>92774069

best probably was regular show, it did was samurai jack was trying to do (grande clusterfuck battle with all your allies) but actually did it right.

>>92788278
Regular Show, read the thread.

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>>92788219
>Just because you do not like something does not make it filler.
Episode 4 involved Jack crawling around in a monster for 20 minutes with Ashi, with the only plot-relevant part being the very end where she has a change of heart because of the ladybug thing.
Episode 6 was 20 minutes of cameos (as if we or Ashi needed more proof that Jack helps people), with the only plot-relevant part being the very end where the phantom shit happens.
It wasn't filler because I didn't like it -hell, I didn't even mind those 2 episodes as much as I did 7-10 and 5-, it was filler because the vast majority of the episode contributed nothing to the story and can be cut out without the plot changing in any way.
>You expected something long and drawn out, you didn't get it, so you hate it.
I didn't go into the show expecting anything besides the basic shit (Jack fights Aku at the end was the only thing I was actually expecting). The show concluded its arcs in rushed and contrived ways, and I didn't like them because I was expecting something else. I didn't like them because they weren't good.

Humans can't kill their mental problems in 15 seconds flat.

>It's been shown over and over throughout the show that Aku is never a match for Jack and that's why he always runs away and came up with schemes to beat him through proxies. If Aku could take on Jack he wouldn't have bothered with any of that. The only reason the show happened at all was because Jack hesitated to kill Aku in the first place.
Jack and the Warrior Woman, The Aku Infection, Jack and the Zombies and S5E7 (I could have missed some) are all examples of Aku beating Jack, whether through trickery or through beating him in a fight. It's always been about even with those two.
>Ending was Jack doing what he set out to do all along and accomplishing his life goal
Last time I checked, Jack's life goal wasn't a copy-paste of GL, complete with a wedding scene, the wife disappearing during the wedding scene, and him leaving.

>>92788582
>It wasn't filler because I didn't like it -hell, I didn't even mind those 2 episodes as much as I did 7-10 and 5-, it was filler because the vast majority of the episode contributed nothing to the story and can be cut out without the plot changing in any way.
And then you'd complain about the lack of Jack and Ashi's interactions. Having characters interact, learn about each other and grow isn't filler.
>Jack and the Warrior Woman, The Aku Infection, Jack and the Zombies and S5E7 (I could have missed some) are all examples of Aku beating Jack, whether through trickery or through beating him in a fight. It's always been about even with those two.
In Jack and the Warrior Woman Aku just broke the crustal and left, no fight there. The Aku Infection wasn't an actual fight, it was purification. We already had that with Ashi anyway. Jack and the Zombies is a terrible example for your argument. The only reason Aku put Jack into trouble was because he'd stolen his sword, and the only reason Jack didn't die in less than a minute was because Aku wanted to kill Jack using his own sword. The moment Jack regained the sword he destroyed Aku in a minute.

>>92788219
>Ashi developed Jack's character and you didn't like that you can explore a character using another one.

Ashi gave Jack a boner. That's it. He spends one episode spurging out over everything even slightly intimate (which isn't even development, since we've seen Jack's habits around women multiple times over the course of the show prior to S5), they make out after said episode gives us """buildup""" in the form of Ashi and Jack acting like two insecure teens on prom night, and then we get I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!

That's not meaningful character exploration. I love character development using other characters when it's done right, and Jack-Ashi isn't done right.

>>92788725
Way to oversimplify there. She stopped the hallucinations from tormenting him, pushed him out of suicide and got him to move on, get his sword back and return to the fight against Aku. The romance was the last step in their relationship.

>>92788582
>Humans can't kill their mental problems in 15 seconds flat.
He didn't. He spent half of ep3 rebalancing himself with wolfbro, then ep4 showed his mood clearly improving, then the honda shit showed him overcoming from hitting rock bottom. Then he finally goes on his spiritual journey shit and directly confronts the problem he's been working on for half the season, and even after all that he still talks to his own reflection in ep9.

Jack's depression is probably the only subplot to get the proper amount of time.

>>92788686
>And then you'd complain about the lack of Jack and Ashi's interactions. Having characters interact, learn about each other and grow isn't filler.
Jack and Ashi do not have a single meaningful moment in E4 until the very end. Jack saying "this is called aku-puncture" and "coming from you, hideous is a compliment" is the least meaningful character interaction you could possibly have in your show.
>In Jack and the Warrior Woman Aku just broke the crustal and left, no fight there.
Aku assumed a human form and gained Jack's trust over a moderate period of time, and then cucked him over, on top of destroying the jewel which would have sent him back to the past. See how I said trickery? That's trickery.
>The Aku Infection wasn't an actual fight, it was purification.
Aku sneezed on Jack and he almost died. That should tell you where the two stand.
>We already had that with Ashi anyway.
Season 5 generally doesn't come before Season 4, dipshit.
>Jack and the Zombies is a terrible example for your argument. The only reason Aku put Jack into trouble was because he'd stolen his sword.
Oh, wow, the only reason why Aku put Jack in trouble was because of something he did that gave him a complete advantage?

>>92788798
>Jack's depression is probably the only subplot to get the proper amount of time.

Well, the buildup got the proper amount of time. I'm saying the climax sucked ass, considering how short it was and how Jack just said "oh your rage blinded me" and then just killed off half a century's worth of mental issues immediately.

>>92788767
I gotta agree with the other anon that the romance was awkward and poorly executed. All of Ashi's contributions still didn't establish any deep emotional intimacy, and then ep8 rolls around and they end up like giggling high schoolers seemingly with little provocation. Even most of their interactions post ep8 are just them being really uncomfortably awkward around each other.

>>92788895
It was a whole mystical meditative trance bit. He literally had to go to another realm to deal with his shit. I really don't get what you were expecting, Jack has always dealt with his emotions using peaceful meditation. Mad Jack was defeated the same way with a far less drawn out segment
And like I said, he still wasn't completely free of it; guy's talking to himself again in ep9, he just isn't having an argument with him anymore.

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>>92788767
>She stopped the hallucinations from tormenting him
You mean the one hallucination that Jack got rid of himself? That one?
>pushed him out of suicide
She technically did, but like everything else past E3 (with the exception of episode 9), that scene was so poorly done that I can't count it as actual impactful character interaction. The general idea for the scene isn't as important as how it's actually executed.

>>92788850
>Jack and Ashi do not have a single meaningful moment in E4 until the very end. Jack saying "this is called aku-puncture" and "coming from you, hideous is a compliment" is the least meaningful character interaction you could possibly have in your show.
We're just starting off. Ashi hates Jack with passion and he is still trying to ease the tension. Like it or not, that's interaction and it pays off later when Ashi starts taking into consideration Jack's statement of him being the good one while Aku was evil.
>Aku assumed a human form and gained Jack's trust over a moderate period of time, and then cucked him over, on top of destroying the jewel which would have sent him back to the past. See how I said trickery? That's trickery.
Trickery, yes, and so was using Ashi was a puppet to get Jack to surrender. So, where's the complain again?
>Aku sneezed on Jack and he almost died. That should tell you where the two stand.
Accidentally; it was not premeditated in the slightest.
>Season 5 generally doesn't come before Season 4, dipshit.
I meant that if you were looking for another Alu infection situation in the finale you already had Ashi for that, so using the same technique for a fight between Jack and Aku would have been just redundant
Oh, wow, the only reason why Aku put Jack in trouble was because of something he did that gave him a complete advantage?
Don't cut out what I said, though. He also intended to kill Jack with the sword. That's still a one sided battle. Jack and Aku can never stand on equal ground in a fight, ever. One of them is always completely over the other due to circumstances, so expecting a fierce final battle was doomed to disappointment from the get go.

>>92788957
>You mean the one hallucination that Jack got rid of himself? That one?
Oh, didn't you watch episode 1? When he saw his parents in the river, the fire and all the dead children?
Those are the hallucinations Ashi put an stop to; the others were an actual spirit and a manifestation of Jack's psyche. Suicide Jack stopped showing up whenever he talked with Ashi, so even if she couldn't end that particular one she could hold it back.
She technically did, but like everything else past E3 (with the exception of episode 9), that scene was so poorly done that I can't count it as actual impactful character interaction. The general idea for the scene isn't as important as how it's actually executed.
It still happened; you can't just dismiss Ashi's contribution to the plot just because you didn't like the execution; that an entirely different matter.

>>92788950
>Jack has always dealt with his emotions using peaceful meditation. Mad Jack was defeated the same way with a far less drawn out segment.

Jack fought Mad Jack in that episode. It wasn't peaceful until the very end, where Jack composed himself.

Sure, the meditation scene was more drawn out, but it was also padded out with inane garbage, like the monk saying that Jack lacks balance. Doesn't anger balance you out, anyway? It's a completely natural part of the mind. What does that even mean? Mad Jack should have been contained instead of evaporated.

The big difference between Mad Jack in S5 and Mad Jack in E8 is that Mad Jack in E8 actually had a pretty cool fight, so it was more satisfying to watch Jack take him out with peaceful methods. In S5, they just skip the fight, so the payoff is basically chopped into tiny pieces and kicked off a cliff.

>>92788896
You have to keep in mind that Jack was once again in control of his mental faculties back here again. When you're mentally stable it is easier for you to perceive attractiveness in other people the same way people are more likely to perceive it in you.
The emotional connection was already there; suddenly realizing how attractive the other was is what kickstarted the romance.

>>92780805
this

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>>92789048
>Those are the hallucinations Ashi put an stop to
No
>Suicide Jack stopped showing up whenever he talked with Ashi
Suicide Jack showed sporadically in the first place. It's bias as fuck to say Ashi was Responsible for any aid there

>>92789083
>Jack fought Mad Jack in that episode. It wasn't peaceful until the very end, where Jack composed himself
He fought him, which proved to be futile, realized he was a reflection of his own raging emotions, then put himself at peace. He defeated mad jack with non aggression.

>>92789083
The season had enough pointless fights as is, it didn't need a mad jack 2.0 fight as well

>>92789166
>No
Great argument. So I take you don't remember that scene in episode 5 after Ashi has parted ways and Jack is left alone again, sitting in front of a fire. The hallucinations start once again, he begs them to stop and they do, and then he realizes Ashi is standing over him. After that we never see them again.
>Suicide Jack showed sporadically in the first place. It's bias as fuck to say Ashi was Responsible for any aid there
All the times he's shown up was when Jack was completely alone. Put two and two together.

>>92789230
My argument was that healing doggo was the one to help him with the screaming fire parent hallucinations. He had a whole segment about him recalling his parents' lessons. Hell with the wolf was the first time he smiled the whole season. It's obvious the white wolf was much more instrumental to his healing then Ashi, especially since even dealing with Ashi trying to kill him while they escaped he was still clearly in a better mood.

>>92789000
>We're just starting off. Ashi hates Jack with passion and he is still trying to ease the tension. Like it or not, that's interaction and it pays off later when Ashi starts taking into consideration Jack's statement of him being the good one while Aku was evil.

It's useless interaction. Can you cut out everything from Episode 4, save the last bit with the island, and end up with your plot unchanged? Yes. One throwaway line of dialogue that reappears exactly one time doesn't excuse your episode being mostly useless to the plot.
>Trickery, yes, and so was using Ashi was a puppet to get Jack to surrender. So, where's the complain again?

The point is that Aku has beaten Jack multiple times. The earlier point about how a final fight with Aku would be dumb because he sucks ass compared to Jack is wrong.
>Accidentally; it was not premeditated in the slightest.

Sure, it was accidental, but it's also a great indication of Aku's immense power.

>I meant that if you were looking for another Alu infection situation in the finale you already had Ashi for that, so using the same technique for a fight between Jack and Aku would have been just redundant

When did I say this? That's a stupid idea. The point is that Aku is so powerful that a mere drop of his essence can very nearly kill Samurai Jack, so saying that he'd be curbstomped in a fight is incorrect, and has been proven incorrect multiple times in the show, seeing as how their fights nearly always end up evenly matched (even Jack vs. Aku, as Aku was able to defend himself moderately well considering his lack of expertise in human form)

>Don't cut out what I said, though. He also intended to kill Jack with the sword. That's still a one sided battle.
Friendly reminder that Aku beat Jack completely by that point and had him pinned down. If he knew about the sword's good-only powers, he could have just killed Jack by stabbing him or something. That was Aku's loss more due to unfortunate circumstances.

>>92789230
>All the times he's shown up was when Jack was completely alone. Put two and two together
This does not make Ashi critical to dealing with his hallucinations, this makes human contact (or any contact given doggo's effect) critical in dealing with it. You could even argue simply having his attention focused on something does the trick. Come to think of it I wonder what people would think if it was just the white wolf that followed him throughout the season instead of Ashi.

>>92789230
>So I take you don't remember that scene in episode 5 after Ashi has parted ways and Jack is left alone again, sitting in front of a fire. The hallucinations start once again, he begs them to stop and they do, and then he realizes Ashi is standing over him. After that we never see them again.

You realize that Jack stopped hallucinating not because Ashi was talking to him, but because someone was talking to him? You could have put anyone in that spot and it would have still stopped the hallucinations.

>>92789340
So that's why the hallucinations start off again anyway and only after he notices Ashi's presence do they back off. You're just grasping at straws here.

>>92789434
>>92789428
Yes, that's true. It still helped him though, so Ashi did serve a purpose. Pulling him out of suicide was a different matter though.

>>92788278
Avatar: The Last Airbender

So out of SJ and GF, which finale was better and which was worse?

>>92789442
>>92789442
Perhaps because he spent an entire episode trying to save an ungrateful psychopath his mood took a hit again. He's not going to be perfectly better all the time. All those blue children just collapsing drove him to seppuku without him even checking them or looking for Ashi.

>>92774069
Th best one was Wonder Over Yonder, then Regular Show, then Gravity Falls (Only because it felt like a real finale compare to SJ) and last Samurai Jack

>>92789349
>It's useless interaction. Can you cut out everything from Episode 4, save the last bit with the island, and end up with your plot unchanged? Yes. One throwaway line of dialogue that reappears exactly one time doesn't excuse your episode being mostly useless to the plot.
I still feel it was important for the two characters, but feel free to disagree if you want to. Besides, the episode was an excuse for interesting visuals, like most of Samurai Jack. The interactions were basic enough and worked well in my eyes.
>The point is that Aku has beaten Jack multiple times. The earlier point about how a final fight with Aku would be dumb because he sucks ass compared to Jack is wrong.
It doesn't really count as beating if he's still forced to flee at the end of every encounter. The only times Aku has really defeated Jack have been by sending him to the future or destroying a way back to the past. In a physical confrontation Jack always triumphs. That's what I'm trying to defend here.
>When did I say this? That's a stupid idea. The point is that Aku is so powerful that a mere drop of his essence can very nearly kill Samurai Jack, so saying that he'd be curbstomped in a fight is incorrect, and has been proven incorrect multiple times in the show, seeing as how their fights nearly always end up evenly matched (even Jack vs. Aku, as Aku was able to defend himself moderately well considering his lack of expertise in human form)

Just because Jack agreed to leave the sword behind and Aku still had to cheat because even without the sword he was being handed his ass by Jack.
>If he knew about the sword's good-only powers, he could have just killed Jack by stabbing him or something. That was Aku's loss more due to unfortunate circumstances.
Again, that's my point. The only way Aku can really be a threat to Jack in a fight is when he's missing the sword, and in those situations there wouldn't be a fight at all; Jack would just die.

>>92789479
That wasn't a satisfying finale. There were shitstorms over spiritbending and deus ex lion turtle for months

>>92789627
He still only had those hallucinations when he was alone. Her just being close was enough to keep them in check. Though I agree had had changed his mind about Ashi after she kept refusing to accept that Aku was evil. It was only by her insistence to be shown evidence that Jack bothered to prove it to her one last time.

>>92789740
I agree ep4 was necessary to characterize Ashi and communicate just how fucking nuts she was, but where I think they faltered was how easily she gave all that up. A quick montage of Jack showing some trees and a dirty city and she's ready to forsake her lifetime brainwashing. In that light ep4 seems unnecessary, even counterproductive

>>92789794
Again, that does not single out Ashi as important, that singles out social contact or even something attention grabbing as important. The wolf did the same job and was arguably more impactful between ep 1-5, as shown by his repeated loss of hope while with Ashi yet his renewed drive to survive while with the wolf.

>>92789821
I can't really argue how rushed it was, but it wasn't enough to keep me from enjoying it. After all, she did seem reticent to believe Jack even after the ladybug event. And him showing off Aku's evil... well, it's not really hard to convince someone that someone literally called Evil is evil. In other circumstances it would have been hard to believe, but in the context of this show it was quite easy for me to accept that convincing her of Aku's true nature wasn't a hard task. I still wish we'd had gotten a little more time devoted to it, but it's still fine.

>>92789916
It's a bit different though. The wolf was more of a healer than a saver; he kept Jack alive long enough to help him defend himself but not much after that. If you recall, right after leaving Ashi at the beach he was ready to go back to his nomadic self with no real hope for the future; it was Ashi's presence that drove him to change. Also, Ashi is different from anyone else he's ever met because Jack was her entire life, her one goal. The rest of Jack's friends have something to cling to, families, villages, anything. Ashi was as alone as Jack was, more even now that she had discovered her entire purpose was a lie. In that regard, Ashi and Jack are very similar.

>>92789740
>Besides, the episode was an excuse for interesting visuals, like most of Samurai Jack.

A weird color scheme and some creatures doesn't make for memorable or interesting visuals. S1-S4 SJ had shit like the Shinobi fight or the bounty hunter fight, which were actually good.

>I still feel it was important for the two characters, but feel free to disagree if you want to. The interactions were basic enough and worked well in my eyes.

muh opinion

>In a physical confrontation Jack always triumphs. That's what I'm trying to defend here.

Jack and the Zombies is really the only example of both Jack and Aku beginning the fight on fair terms. I'm not discrediting episodes like Jack vs. Aku or Jack and the Swamp Monster, but they always have some sort of catch that usually ends up giving Jack an advantage (Aku is unsuited to human form, Aku is caught by surprise, etc.)

Jack and the Zombies was also when Aku beat Jack fair and square.

Jack and Aku don't actually fight often, so it's easy to run it down.

>Pilot: Jack is as expertly trained as usual. Aku is much weaker at this point in time, lacking most of his powers and only resorting to shapeshifting.
>Jack vs. Aku: Jack doesn't have his sword, leading him to use martial arts, which he's about as proficient in. Aku is in human form, which he is unaccustomed to.
>Jack and the Swamp Monster: Jack catches Aku by surprise.
>Jack and the Zombies: Both Aku and Jack begin the fight on equal terms. This is the one fight that Aku wins.

Aku, when not dealing with sneak attacks or otherwise placed at a disadvantage from the beginning, is a serious threat. A finale would most likely place the two on equal terms, like Jack vs. the Zombies, and it would thus be a fight that could go either way.

>>92790027
Ashi was taught weakness was bad. The incident with the crimial immigrant thing shouldn't have phased her at all. The strong claiming things over the weak is perfectly rational to her. The tree story for a she knows could be complete fabrication.

What they should've done was have them split way when he initially refuses, then have her follow him in secret. Jack does the blue children thing, and Ashi, seeing other children turned into weapons like her has her first moment of sympathy and decides to aid Jack. Jack goes emo and runs off for seppuku before Ashi finds him, then we do the montage fanservice bit, and then finally when ashi finds Jack she fully accepts his views. It would've been much more fulfilling if they had just waited till then, and it would add validity to Jack's returned downer mood if Ashi was not convinced so quickly.

>>92790092
It wasn't Ashi's presence, it was her speech at the end of ep5. Even once he convinced Ashi he was still hopeless and depressed, it was only once she reminded him of all the good he did did he finally regain purpose. In that light Ashi is just the messenger and has no special place emotionally, which is why the romance subplot seemed unnatural to so many people.

>>92790198
>A weird color scheme and some creatures doesn't make for memorable or interesting visuals. S1-S4 SJ had shit like the Shinobi fight or the bounty hunter fight, which were actually good.
Background art has always been important. Also, the way the veins, nervous connections and generally speaking the anatomy of the monster were designed were amazing to look at. I concede you this one though, for art is subjective and if it didn't work for you that's fine.
>muh opinion
Well, yes, that's my opinion. We both watched the same but we perceived it differently; I don't think that's so rare.
>Jack and the Zombies is really the only example of both Jack and Aku beginning the fight on fair terms.
No, it's far from a fight on fair terms. Jack had his sword snatched by a zombie and it delivered it to Aku. It was only after Aku got a hold of Jack's sword that he made his presence known; that's far from fair.
Jack and the Zombies was also when Aku beat Jack fair and square.
The one who was sent running away in a hamster form was Aku; I don't think we agree on the meaning of beating someone fair and square.
>Pilot
Jack and Aku had been alive for a very similar period of time. Aku also had access to his laser eyes and plenty of other powers, he just decided not to use them for some reason (because at that point they hadn't thought of them, to be honest).
>Jack vs Aku
Agreed, easy fight for Jack.
>Jack and the Swamp Monster
Aku had access to the fist of Chronos and still lost.
>Jack and the Zombies
I've already explained this one.

Aku is only a serious threat to Jack in a fight if Jack lacks the sword; that's why he resorts to employing minions of fight off Jack.

>>92790285
>Ashi was taught weakness was bad. The incident with the crimial immigrant thing shouldn't have phased her at all. The strong claiming things over the weak is perfectly rational to her. The tree story for a she knows could be complete fabrication.
Alright, I'm having trouble rationalizing this one. I'll concede part of it. However, I still feel Ashi was only trained to apply that logic to her sisters and herself; after all thy were indoctrinated that they were on a mission of good to save a defenseless world from the evils of the Samurai. Protecting the innocent was still a part of their dogma.
What they should've done was have them split way when he initially refuses, then have her follow him in secret. Jack does the blue children thing, and Ashi, seeing other children turned into weapons like her has her first moment of sympathy and decides to aid Jack. Jack goes emo and runs off for seppuku before Ashi finds him, then we do the montage fanservice bit, and then finally when ashi finds Jack she fully accepts his views. It would've been much more fulfilling if they had just waited till then, and it would add validity to Jack's returned downer mood if Ashi was not convinced so quickly.
That's actually a pretty good idea; it could have been done in the same time it took the episode and it wouldn't have affected the final product at all.
Well thought out, anon.

>>92790367
>he just decided not to use them for some reason (because at that point they hadn't thought of them, to be honest).
Laser eyes was the very first power he displayed when he torched Jack's home

>>92790285
>It wasn't Ashi's presence, it was her speech at the end of ep5. Even once he convinced Ashi he was still hopeless and depressed, it was only once she reminded him of all the good he did did he finally regain purpose. In that light Ashi is just the messenger and has no special place emotionally, which is why the romance subplot seemed unnatural to so many people.
I disagree. Don't forget who this is coming from; the assassin literally trained for her entire life to kill him. The fact that a message of hope came from someone with such a past makes it a much more meaningful and emotional message.

>>92790482
>Laser eyes was the very first power he displayed when he torched Jack's home
That's what I mean. During their very first fight Aku didn't use them, even if within the story he should have, because they hadn't thought of them nor Birth of Evil when they wrote the pilot. It's a minor detail, not a big deal.

>>92790474
>>92790285
I'd add one modification: Jack doesn't initially refuse her amd Ashi sticks around long enough for Jack to try to convince her, but that fails and THEN they part ways. Makes Jack growing hope more obvious if he doesn't regress back into depression until he fails to "save" Ashi from herself

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>>92790561
No I mean in the very first ep he uses the laser eyes. They're colored differently but they had thought up the power by then.

>>92774427
>I don't know about you, but I'm sick of my cartoons being polluted by these liberal lies, turning our kids into gays and pussies! I won't stand for any of this, and I blame the fake media and Hillary Clinton for this toxicity! I'm sick of it! Wake up people!
>Time is 5:50. Here's Bruce Springsteen.

>>92790367
>No, it's far from a fight on fair terms. Jack had his sword snatched by a zombie and it delivered it to Aku. It was only after Aku got a hold of Jack's sword that he made his presence known; that's far from fair.
Aku used the zombies to take the sword from Jack, and that's exactly what they did. The one that stole it didn't even sneak up on him: It just went into the sword. The zombies' presence was known. If Jack didn't guard against the last one like a moron, he would have probably avoided the following events.
>The one who was sent running away in a hamster form was Aku; I don't think we agree on the meaning of beating someone fair and square.
The one who was whupping Jack's ass for the whole fight was Aku. If you want an example of someone owning the fight and winning at the end, then see Jack vs. Aku. If you want an example of someone getting their ass kicked and winning at the end, see Jack vs. The Zombies.
>Jack and Aku had been alive for a very similar period of time. Aku also had access to his laser eyes and plenty of other powers, he just decided not to use them for some reason (because at that point they hadn't thought of them, to be honest).
Aku and Jack have both been alive for about 25~ years by this point. Jack has been spending these 25 or so years training to earn a peak mental and physical state, which he did, and Aku has been doing dick fucking nothing because from his perfectly reasonable POV, given what he knows, there is no need to prepare for anything or anyone. Did Jack win? Yeah. Was Aku weak as shit? Yeah.
>Jack and the Swamp Monster
Cronus was a little bitch. Jack took the gem from that guy immediately. The shitty bounty hunters from Jack vs. Mad Jack put up a better fight.

>>92790793
Weirdly, his lasers are constantly changing colors. Orange in Birth of Evil at first, and later blue. Yellow in S1E1. Red in S5. And a few varieties between.

>>92790793
Well, shit. How did I forget that?
Okay then, he just forgot to use them against Jack. Maybe he just didn't want to wreck his castle with them.

>>92790367
>Aku is only a serious threat to Jack in a fight if Jack lacks the sword.

Given that 3 out of the 4 Jack vs. Aku fights so far have placed Aku at a disadvantage prior to the fight, they make for poor evidence. For a good example of how much of a threat Aku places to the sword user on equal terms, see The Birth Of Evil.

>But Jack's father isn't Jack

Jack's dad is either on par or is superior in terms of combat to Jack. I mean, shit, look how many arrows that guy took.

>>92790474
>Protecting the innocent was still a part of their dogma.
Well that makes the deer scene where the daughter are expecting the male deer to dominate/eat/whatever the female make no sense

>>92790822
>Aku used the zombies to take the sword from Jack, and that's exactly what they did. The one that stole it didn't even sneak up on him: It just went into the sword. The zombies' presence was known. If Jack didn't guard against the last one like a moron, he would have probably avoided the following events.
Not a one on one battle though; Aku had to modify the terrain in order to do so. Not fair then.
>The one who was whupping Jack's ass for the whole fight was Aku. If you want an example of someone owning the fight and winning at the end, then see Jack vs. Aku. If you want an example of someone getting their ass kicked and winning at the end, see Jack vs. The Zombies.
He was because Jack didn't have the sword, and the fight lasted that long because Aku was stubborn and wanted to kill Jack with his own sword. Had he not had that in mind, Jack would have been dead much faster.
Aku and Jack have both been alive for about 25~ years by this point. Jack has been spending these 25 or so years training to earn a peak mental and physical state, which he did, and Aku has been doing dick fucking nothing because from his perfectly reasonable POV, given what he knows, there is no need to prepare for anything or anyone. Did Jack win? Yeah. Was Aku weak as shit? Yeah.
In comparison to Jack Aku has always been weak. Something that Aku has always been is lazy and afraid of losing; he made bots just because taking over the world was taking too long for his liking and since he's never had anyone to fight him and actually threaten his life he's never gotten much more experienced at combat. That has carried into the future as well.

>>92790860
>Jack's dad is either on par or is superior in terms of combat to Jack. I mean, shit, look how many arrows that guy took.
That's bullshit; Jack's a much better fighter than his dad. He only took that many arrows because he had a divine armor that stopped them all. He's had much more help from the gods than Jack ever did.

>>92790874
Well then, I accept that. You're right in that regard.

>>92779775
>Drumpf
Just say Trump, you faggot

>>92790530
Still, that doesn't make her emotionally connected to him. It gives weight to the message, but does not establish a bond between the two, at least not form his side. It would warrant some hero worship from her side, but that's kind of a weird thing to bring into a romance

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>>92774069
Leave GF alone damn it, has been more than a year.
Get over it.

>>92791162
Well, he did care enough to save her and she did care enough to save him. You don't do that for someone you're not concerned about. Trekking along together for a while, fighting together and having a common goal also strengthen that bond. Add in how hot they both are in universe and a romantic interest is not too far fetched.

>>92791240
>Well, he did care enough to save her and she did care enough to save him. You don't do that for someone you're not concerned about.
Jack saved her because he saves everyone, and to boot he just had a bunch of crows call him a murderer for killing her sisters. Him trying to redeem her was more obviously an attempt to redeem himself than an expression of actual interest in her beyond basic Jack altruism. Ashi saved him because only total sociopaths would not try to stop a man from irrationally committing suicide.

The romance is plausible yes, but it did not have any elements that made it clear they were even interested that way. It was all foreshadowing and no real character intimacy.

>>92791389
>Jack saved her because he saves everyone, and to boot he just had a bunch of crows call him a murderer for killing her sisters. Him trying to redeem her was more obviously an attempt to redeem himself than an expression of actual interest in her beyond basic Jack altruism.
I won't deny an mount of self interest for the sake of guilt in there from Jack's part; that's always been obvious. Still, he decided to show her the truth despite having given up on her when she showed the slightest chance of redemption. At that point Jack was past saving her life; their debt was paid off, he did it out of altruism.
Ashi still wen to great lengths to find him again, travelling the world because she was concerned for him. His fame just impulsed her to chase on with more energy.

However, yeah, I do believe we could have used more time of them together. Another consequence of the little amount of episodes. Still, I believe it works well enough to carry the plot.

>>92791578
>At that point Jack was past saving her life; their debt was paid off, he did it out of altruism.
He wouldn't be saving her if she just went back to being an Aku cultist. His job was not done, he was just too depressed to give much of a shit the first time, like how he turned away from the smoking village only to change his mind after the crazy hallucinations called him a bitch for doing that.

>Ashi still wen to great lengths to find him again, travelling the world because she was concerned for him.
I agree on that point, but still that could be attributed to a growing hero worship complex, pretty much replacing Aku in her life with Jack. Not really the best setup for romance.

>>92790971

His armor was ruined by the time he got bombarded by arrows. They pretty clearly penetrated it most of the time.

>>92790945
>Not a one on one battle though; Aku had to modify the terrain in order to do so. Not fair then.

The only zombie that really did anything important to affect the Aku fight was the last one, and even then, its contribution was so minimal that Aku might as well have taken the sword himself. That wasn't beginning the fight as a disadvantage so much as it was Jack doing some stupid shit in an easy fight and paying for it dearly.

>He was because Jack didn't have the sword

And Aku took the sword in a way that was completely fair: he got a zombie to fly into it (which it did not do by surprise or through deception: it simply went into the sword) and give it to him.

>In comparison to Jack Aku has always been weak.

This, again, has little evidence to back it up. We have 4 Aku v. Jack fights, and 3 of which place Aku at a huge disadvantage when the fight commences. Jack vs. The Zombies, while having Jack placed at a disadvantage at the beginning, was due to Aku fairly using one of his abilities to steal the sword (necromancy).

The only completely fair (even though he had the nimbus and armor, they weren't particularly helpful) scenario of a sword-equipped Jack vs. Aku is the Jack's Father vs. Aku fight in Birth of Evil, and that was down to the wire.

>>92774427
>Ashi! You have all of Aku's powers!
>You're right!
>proceeds to immediately open a time portal by screaming without any friggin training or at least some cool fight scene with Aku to learn to hone her powers
>time travel back to immediately kill Aku with no cool battle part 2

I predicted this after the previous episode aired but I still feel horribly cheated.

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>>92791770
>His armor was ruined by the time he got bombarded by arrows. They pretty clearly penetrated it most of the time.
Every single arrow sans one went to his armor. The other one just went to his hair.
>The only zombie that really did anything important to affect the Aku fight was the last one, and even then, its contribution was so minimal that Aku might as well have taken the sword himself. That wasn't beginning the fight as a disadvantage so much as it was Jack doing some stupid shit in an easy fight and paying for it dearly.
Still, external help. Aku only presented himself when he was sure he'd have the upper hand because he's sorely aware that he can't beat Jack on a fair fight. He's a coward.
>This, again, has little evidence to back it up. We have 4 Aku v. Jack fights, and 3 of which place Aku at a huge disadvantage when the fight commences.
What you call Aku being in a disadvantage is Jack having the sword. If Jack has the sword, he has the advantage in the fight. If he lacks the sword, Aku had the advantage. That's how it works; they can never be on equal ground; one is always superior to the other due to the circumstances.

>>92791903>>92791770


>The only completely fair (even though he had the nimbus and armor, they weren't particularly helpful) scenario of a sword-equipped Jack vs. Aku is the Jack's Father vs. Aku fight in Birth of Evil, and that was down to the wire.
That fight lasted longer indeed and was much more balanced because Jack's father isn't such an unstoppable warrior as Jack, so that evens it out a bit. We agree on that.
However, that still doesn't deny the fact that Jack and Aku's conflict is incredibly off balanced.

>>92791736
>He wouldn't be saving her if she just went back to being an Aku cultist. His job was not done, he was just too depressed to give much of a shit the first time, like how he turned away from the smoking village only to change his mind after the crazy hallucinations called him a bitch for doing that.
In order not to get slashed by Jack you just need to chill. If you're not hurting anyone he'll give you a warning and let you go.
He still didn't believe Ashi could change, he said it himself. At that point he was convinced, but decided to concede Ashi the benefit of the doubt one last time because this time he had physical evidence to show. Not that his depression didn't play an important part in that; in that regard I agree with you.
>I agree on that point, but still that could be attributed to a growing hero worship complex, pretty much replacing Aku in her life with Jack. Not really the best setup for romance.
There definetly was hero worship, I won't deny that. But that was just an impression, after getting to know Jack she did manage to see the gentleness and kindness that is his whole persona. He also let down his defenses for her and talked about how much he missed the past, something he's never told anyone else.
I believe the romance truly started off in episode 9; before that it was mostly sexual tension. You can easily tell by the amount of sexual innuendos spread out around episode 8.

>>92787426
He means the 5/10 is right in the damn middle, so it can't be 5/10 and still "shit", that'd be like 2.5/10 or something,

>>92788169
>literally who
>regular show
i know it hasn't had tv repeats in a few years but are newfags serious with this?

>>92791903
>Every single arrow sans one went to his armor.

Sure, they went into it, but to assume not a single one penetrated the body as well, especially considering how thin the plating is in that state, would be illogical.

>Still, external help. Aku only presented himself when he was sure he'd have the upper hand because he's sorely aware that he can't beat Jack on a fair fight. He's a coward.

Aku probably only showed himself after gaining the sword (which he got from a zombie that he presumably controlled) not because he would get curbstomped, but because any sane thing would be cautious about fighting the guy that wields the one thing on the planet capable of killing you. It's not cowardly so much as it is intelligent.

>What you call Aku being in a disadvantage is Jack having the sword.

Not really: If anything, Jack having the sword makes it fair. What I call Aku being at a disadvantage is

A: Aku in human form against Jack
B: Weak, newly reborn Aku against Jack
C: Aku caught by surprise against Jack

Every Aku vs. Jack fight, save one, has some sort of catch that places Aku at a disadvantage. Thus, the one fight that can be most accurately used to draw a conclusion of what a Jack vs. Aku fight would be like without any acts of deception or the like would be the one witnessed in BoE.

>>92791961

>That fight lasted longer indeed and was much more balanced because Jack's father isn't such an unstoppable warrior as Jack, so that evens it out a bit. We agree on that

But Jack's father IS around as unstoppable as Jack. He fought against an army of sword, spear and bow-wielding Aku warriors for an entire day, presumably suffering penetrating wounds and combating exhaustion all the while.

The whole reason why we can use BoE as an example for what a completely evenly set Jack vs. Aku fight would be like is due to Jack's father being around as skilled as Jack, and the fight clearly shows us this.

>>92791227
It still sucks

>>92792482
>Sure, they went into it, but to assume not a single one penetrated the body as well, especially considering how thin the plating is in that state, would be illogical.
You're arguing realism in a heavily stylized show. It's reasonable to assume despite the thinness it's meant to represent protection

>>92792597
Then wouldn't the heavily damaged and torn armor represent a lack thereof?

>>92774069
It feels like people had high expectations for GF and Samurai Jack that would have never been met regardless while nobody really cared abut Regular Show and were surprised that it dished that a competently satisfying ending after it had already gotten stale.

>>92792657
Arguable. I would say so if they didn't go to the effort of having every arrow pierce only the armor while leaving his flesh completely unmarked, when they usually scratch up the shit out of Jack to show battle damage.

>>92774069
It was the exact same shit except GF's ending was a ham fisted happy one and Jack's ripped off Gurren Lagan.

>>92792482
>Sure, they went into it, but to assume not a single one penetrated the body as well, especially considering how thin the plating is in that state, would be illogical.
Divine armor; I'm sure that is guaranteed to offer complete protection.
>Aku probably only showed himself after gaining the sword (which he got from a zombie that he presumably controlled) not because he would get curbstomped, but because any sane thing would be cautious about fighting the guy that wields the one thing on the planet capable of killing you. It's not cowardly so much as it is intelligent.
Yes, it was an intelligent move. But it still agrees with my point; Aku knows that he can't beat Jack as long as he's wielding the sword. Thus, they're not an even match in close combat.
>Not really: If anything, Jack having the sword makes it fair. What I call Aku being at a disadvantage is
A: Both of them limited their use of magical items and Jack still won. They were both at a disadvantage.
B: I must remind you that the newly born Aku you're referring to was 25 years older than the one who fought Jack's father and had had plenty of time to regain his strength. The fact that Aku being a day old could put up such a good fight against The Emperor but after 25 years of being alive he could not give Jack nearly such a good fight just proves how superior Jack is both to Aku and his father in combat.
C: The only time he was caught off guard by Jack was by Jack knowing he was Aku in disguise all along and having been around Jack all day long. They were well aware of each other's presence when the fight started and there was no sneak attack of any kind; Jack called out Aku on his disguise before attacking.

The Emperor is an exceptional combatant but Jack is downright superhuman. His father got help from the gods in the form of a Nimbus and a magical armor. Jack only had a robe.

>>92792913
>The fact that Aku being a day old could put up such a good fight against The Emperor but after 25 years of being alive he could not give Jack nearly such a good fight just proves how superior Jack is both to Aku and his father in combat.
Aku doesn't use nearly as many of his tricks though. Honestly I think Aku is just paradoxically weakest in his lair

>>92792888
What was ham fisted about it?

The only people who said Regular Show had a good ending came off as not having actually watched the show.

>>92793040
Yeah, that's kind of weird. Honestly, I feel he just doesn't want to destroy it. If it is for an actual reason other than laziness for building another one, I can't tell.

>>92787343
all 4 of these cartoons > act 6 onward

>>92774069

At least the other three (as far as I can remember, at least) didn't spend almost the entire first half gushing about the importance of and rescuing a character who barely did anything in the second half

>>92793149
What are you talking about?

>>92792913
>Divine armor; I'm sure that is guaranteed to offer complete protection.
You'd expect it to not be torn up to shit if it was guaranteed to offer complete protection.
>Thus, they're not an even match in close combat.
Again, BoE shows that Aku is a close match without any shenanigans going on. Jack is more than likely better than his dad, but the difference would not be substantial enough to deviate from it being an extremely close match.

A: Aku is in human form, which he is completely unused to. Dude barely knows how to stretch. Meanwhile, Jack is using martial arts, which he is extremely skilled at. Aku is perhaps at his biggest disadvantage here.
B: Aku at 25 years old, for one reason or another, is much weaker in his fight with Jack than he is with the Emperor. He never duplicates, uses eye beams, assumes any particularly impressive form, or does anything as noteworthy as he did in BoE. He probably underestimated Jack, but the more likely answer is that he got weak after 25 years of doing nothing.
C: Jack immediately sliced into Aku. He said "And now, my trap is sprung!" and carved into him. Not only that, one must remember that Jack presumably knew that the hermit was Aku for the whole day, and would thus be much more prepared to whoop some ass than Aku, who has comparatively no idea that he's walking into a trap.

The nimbus got fucked and the armor did too. The Emperor did all the important shit by himself, using nothing but his legendary endurance and raw skill.

>>92793470
I wanted say that I'm having fun with our debate and that I hold no grudges against you.
With that said
>You'd expect it to not be torn up to shit if it was guaranteed to offer complete protection.
If remember correctly the armor was broken when Aku punched Jack's father through a wall. A direct blow from Aku is a lot stronger than any arrow; just look at how easily he torn to pieces the giant stone samurai.
A:A: Aku is in human form, which he is completely unused to. Dude barely knows how to stretch. Meanwhile, Jack is using martial arts, which he is extremely skilled at. Aku is perhaps at his biggest disadvantage here.
He's in a disadvantage the same way Jack is; he doesn't have the one thing that can kill Aku. It was idiotic of both of them to agree to this challenge. At least from Aku's part; Jack had the foresight to hide his sword to get a clean shot at Aku when he inevitably cheated.
B: I don't think Aku can "get weaker"; he is a magical being, this isn't Dragon Ball. At worst, I'm taking that he felt limited fighting in his lair, a lair that for some reason he refuses to destroy. Rather than being weak, I think he just underestimated Jack and had poor strategic planning.
C: I've revisited the episode and Aku used Chronos' weapons to attack Jack first. Then he started gloating over how good he had gotten Jack before Jack countered him saying he'd known since the beginning. Then he says the line about the trap and attacks. Despite attacking Aku directly first, he still gave him plenty of warning about his intentions; Aku just wasn't fast enough.

True, the nimbus and the armor got destroyed, but he still used them for a long time of the fight, particularly when Aku was huge as fuck and could have easily squished him. Also, he got an amazing blow by cutting off Aku from the base almost entirely. He only was reduced to fighting one on one when Aku turned into an army, and by your admission, Aku is not a proficient combatant in human form.

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>>92794195
>>92794195
>If remember correctly the armor was broken when Aku punched Jack's father through a wall. A direct blow from Aku is a lot stronger than any arrow; just look at how easily he torn to pieces the giant stone samurai.

The armor was broken when Aku's spider leg hit Jack's dad through a wall, which is basically the same thing. However, it's important to note that the body armor has two layers: the main one being the lined, light-blue part, and the dark blue part being the back layer. Later on, we can see that the only part of the Emperor's armor that's left is the back layer, which can't be as resilient as the main one. This makes it a safe bet that the arrows reached the body after penetrating what was left of the armor.
>He's in a disadvantage the same way Jack is; he doesn't have the one thing that can kill Aku.
Well, neither Aku or Jack said it would be to the death: it would merely be a duel. Since the point of a duel is beating your opponent in combat, Jack wouldn't need the sword. He doesn't have to kill Aku, only beat him.
> I don't think Aku can "get weaker"; he is a magical being, this isn't Dragon Ball. At worst, I'm taking that he felt limited fighting in his lair, a lair that for some reason he refuses to destroy. Rather than being weak, I think he just underestimated Jack and had poor strategic planning.
I'll give you credit that "get weaker" was a poor choice of words. A more accurate way of describing it would be that Aku had grown unused to combat, having not engaged in it for both the amount of time he was trapped in the sword and for 25 years after. He would thus not be particularly proficient in his vast array of abilities, and would thus resort to weak, basic ones like shapeshifting.

>>92794195
>I've revisited the episode and Aku used Chronos' weapons to attack Jack first. Then he started gloating over how good he had gotten Jack before Jack countered him saying he'd known since the beginning. Then he says the line about the trap and attacks. Despite attacking Aku directly first, he still gave him plenty of warning about his intentions; Aku just wasn't fast enough.Again, Cronus was weak, and had a very obvious weakpoint that Jack probably planned out how to exploit prior to the fight.Jack then got the advantage on Aku by shocking him with the truth, thus opening Aku up for an easy first attack.Also, Jack attacked him right on "SPRUNG", which I'm sure would blindside most of us.>True, the nimbus and the armor got destroyed, but he still used them for a long time of the fight, particularly when Aku was huge as fuck and could have easily squished him. Also, he got an amazing blow by cutting off Aku from the base almost entirely. He only was reduced to fighting one on one when Aku turned into an army, and by your admission, Aku is not a proficient combatant in human form.The nimbus was only useful for mobility (and even then, it's probable the Emperor could have just jumped around like Jack does, even without learning to "jump good") and the one good strike the Emperor landed, and the armor only helped for when he was hit once.He still accomplished the vast majority of the fight with his own skill.Also, it's important to note that Aku is much more proficient with a weapon than he is bare-handed (See Jack and the Zombies: Aku goes toe-to-toe with Jack multiple times with a sword and does remarkably well against him.)

>>92795394
Shit, I fucked up the formatting
>I've revisited the episode and Aku used Chronos' weapons to attack Jack first. Then he started gloating over how good he had gotten Jack before Jack countered him saying he'd known since the beginning. Then he says the line about the trap and attacks. Despite attacking Aku directly first, he still gave him plenty of warning about his intentions; Aku just wasn't fast enough.

Again, Cronus was weak, and had a very obvious weakpoint that Jack probably planned out how to exploit prior to the fight.Jack then got the advantage on Aku by shocking him with the truth, thus opening Aku up for an easy first attack.Also, Jack attacked him right on "SPRUNG", which I'm sure would blindside most of us.

>True, the nimbus and the armor got destroyed, but he still used them for a long time of the fight, particularly when Aku was huge as fuck and could have easily squished him. Also, he got an amazing blow by cutting off Aku from the base almost entirely. He only was reduced to fighting one on one when Aku turned into an army, and by your admission, Aku is not a proficient combatant in human form.

The nimbus was only useful for mobility (and even then, it's probable the Emperor could have just jumped around like Jack does, even without learning to "jump good") and the one good strike the Emperor landed, and the armor only helped for when he was hit once.He still accomplished the vast majority of the fight with his own skill.Also, it's important to note that Aku is much more proficient with a weapon than he is bare-handed (See Jack and the Zombies: Aku goes toe-to-toe with Jack multiple times in swordfighting and does remarkably well against him.)

>>92795367
>The armor was broken when Aku's spider leg hit Jack's dad through a wall, which is basically the same thing. However, it's important to note that the body armor has two layers: the main one being the lined, light-blue part, and the dark blue part being the back layer. Later on, we can see that the only part of the Emperor's armor that's left is the back layer, which can't be as resilient as the main one. This makes it a safe bet that the arrows reached the body after penetrating what was left of the armor.
Even if that were true, he didn't show any signs of exhaustion or injury nor blood. I feel this one is a tricky one to defend for either of us because there's no real way we can truly prove if there was blood or not here.
>Well, neither Aku or Jack said it would be to the death: it would merely be a duel. Since the point of a duel is beating your opponent in combat, Jack wouldn't need the sword. He doesn't have to kill Aku, only beat him.
That's correct, but that's, as you said, just a duel with very strict rules they both devised to make it more equal. Despite those rules, the battle was quite one-sided anyway.
>I'll give you credit that "get weaker" was a poor choice of words. A more accurate way of describing it would be that Aku had grown unused to combat, having not engaged in it for both the amount of time he was trapped in the sword and for 25 years after. He would thus not be particularly proficient in his vast array of abilities, and would thus resort to weak, basic ones like shapeshifting.
Well, he spent millions of years as black tar and that didn't take away from his combat abilities one bit; I don't see why being imprisoned for 8 years and later 17 of just lying around in his fortress would diminish his combat abilities any further. He's not exactly a fighter, he just tanks everything his foes throw at him and then he eradicates them all.

>>92795418
>Again, Cronus was weak, and had a very obvious weakpoint that Jack probably planned out how to exploit prior to the fight.Jack then got the advantage on Aku by shocking him with the truth, thus opening Aku up for an easy first attack.Also, Jack attacked him right on "SPRUNG", which I'm sure would blindside most of us.
I don't even think that was Chronos, those were just his weapons, but that's beside the point.
Anyway, Jack took away Aku's newest external asset and brought the fight back to them one on one. He knew that on a one on one fight he'd win, and he was right, because that's the way it always goes.
Jack catching Aku by surprised despite him making his intention to attack him quite clear just proves what a superior combatant Jack is to Aku.

>The nimbus was only useful for mobility (and even then, it's probable the Emperor could have just jumped around like Jack does, even without learning to "jump good") and the one good strike the Emperor landed, and the armor only helped for when he was hit once.He still accomplished the vast majority of the fight with his own skill.Also, it's important to note that Aku is much more proficient with a weapon than he is bare-handed (See Jack and the Zombies: Aku goes toe-to-toe with Jack multiple times in swordfighting and does remarkably well against him.)
I really doubt the Emperor could have been as agile or fast as Jack. First off, because he's much older, probably in his 40s or 50s. Second, because his training has been far less extensive; he's merely a samurai. A damn good one, but just a samurai.
And taking down an army of weaker Akus who die on one strike using regular ones isn't that impressive. Very impressive, but not that much.
Aku's usage of a sword against Jack could be attributed to being just one Aku instead of swarming his opponent with an army of clones or being older.

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>>92795999
>That's correct, but that's, as you said, just a duel with very strict rules they both devised to make it more equal. Despite those rules, the battle was quite one-sided anyway.

Of course, Aku losing was all his fault, but it's still of note that Aku in human form is nowhere near as powerful as normal Aku. Jack, meanwhile, is about as good with his fists as he is with his blade. Aku earned the loss when he agreed to the conditions, but he was still at a massive disadvantage.

>Well, he spent millions of years as black tar and that didn't take away from his combat abilities one bit; I don't see why being imprisoned for 8 years and later 17 of just lying around in his fortress would diminish his combat abilities any further. He's not exactly a fighter, he just tanks everything his foes throw at him and then he eradicates them all

Well, those millions of years were actually experienced by the Primordial Evil: Aku himself was not born until the day he manifested from the piece that hit Earth.

Sure, you can technically say that Aku was around for as long as the Primordial Evil, but he wasn't sentient until he hit the planet.

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>People saying Jack has the worst ending than Gravity Falls.

It's not a perfect ending but come on.

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>>92796153
>Anyway, Jack took away Aku's newest external asset and brought the fight back to them one on one. He knew that on a one on one fight he'd win, and he was right, because that's the way it always goes.
Jack catching Aku by surprised despite him making his intention to attack him quite clear just proves what a superior combatant Jack is to Aku.

Of course, Jack would be confident in his abilities, but the element of surprise was very important in this scenario. Jack had practically the whole day to plan out his course of action against Aku, while Aku just improv'd shit as he went along, which failed.

Also, I think we'd all be caught by surprise at the shit Jack did. He attacked the millisecond he said "SPRUNG".

>First off, because he's much older, probably in his 40s or 50s.

At the time of fighting Aku, he looks to be in his mid-20s. He looks like Jack with a mustache.

>Second, because his training has been far less extensive; he's merely a samurai. A damn good one, but just a samurai.

The emperor was a samurai lord. One must assume that he went through extensive training to get to that point, and his massive reserve of stamina during the Aku fight only supports this.

>And taking down an army of weaker Akus who die on one strike using regular ones isn't that impressive. Very impressive, but not that much.

Quantity over quality here: Fighting such a needlessly large army of weapon-wielding Akus in a fight that lasted most of a day, from day to night, would take out any normal man. An average samurai, hell, even a good samurai, would have gotten destroyed by the crap the Emperor went through.

>Aku's usage of a sword against Jack could be attributed to being just one Aku instead of swarming his opponent with an army of clones or being older.

There's nothing to go into here: Aku's just really good with a sword.

>>92796235
This.

PnF didn't even follow the same cliché route as >>92774069 (having all characters work together to defeat the Ultimate Evil). It managed to come up with a mostly creative idea that closed out everything comfortably.

>>92774069
>gravity falls
horseshit
>regular show
it was fine but the fact the show ended with a season about fucking pops was stupid.The last 2 minutes where nice but out of place
>WOY
10/10 finale.You have to be a retard to hate it.
>SJ
Rushed bullshit that made so much of the shows great qualities pointless https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leN_QVg8qIo&t=1763s

>>92796370
>Well, those millions of years were actually experienced by the Primordial Evil: Aku himself was not born until the day he manifested from the piece that hit Earth.
In that case Aku being hours old was just as capable as he's always been. So, that's why I argue that your theory of him getting rusty for not fighting don't really hold up; it isn't like he trained to be as powerful as he was.

>>92796891
Aku's development was never really explained in the show, so we don't have much to go on, but I imagine it'd be like riding a bike: You'll do fine the day you learn how to do it, but after stopping for 25 years, you'd probably not be good at it.

>>92796750
>Of course, Jack would be confident in his abilities, but the element of surprise was very important in this scenario. Jack had practically the whole day to plan out his course of action against Aku, while Aku just improv'd shit as he went along, which failed.
>Also, I think we'd all be caught by surprise at the shit Jack did. He attacked the millisecond he said "SPRUNG".
Jack's plan didn't really go much further than "take away the gem so he can't use it" and "slash him till he dies". There's no real strategy fighting Aku aside from cutting up until nothing remains. If anything, Jack was anticipating Aku's attempt to catch him off guard the entire day.
If Aku bad been a proper combatant he would have been so tense that when Jack said "sprung" and attacked he would have reacted faster. He did react, but not fast enough.
>At the time of fighting Aku, he looks to be in his mid-20s. He looks like Jack with a mustache.
Samurai Jack's design can be pretty deceitful, I'll give you that. When he let that beard grow he looked way older than 25. But still, there's that jawline that's usually drawn to indicate age; I think my argument of the Emperor being over 40 still holds up.
>The emperor was a samurai lord. One must assume that he went through extensive training to get to that point, and his massive reserve of stamina during the Aku fight only supports this.
I admit that I'm not that well versed in Japanese combat, but aren't Shoguns elected by heritage rather than fighting abilities? His status isn't definite evidence of his skill. He obviously was a badass even even older; he cut down several bandits younger than him before they could even react, but that doesn't really put in in Jack's level.
>Quantity over quality here:
To be fair, it wasn't nighttime; it just started raining. I don't think the fight lasted more than an hour or so. It's still amazingly impressive, but Jack could do even more easily.

>>92797056
But the thing is he was born being able to do that, he didn't have to learn to. It came to him as easily as moving; a person just doesn't forget how to move.

>>92797168
>a person just doesn't forget how to move
Long comas often leave the sufferer with difficulty performing basic actions like walking, standing, even general muscular control in severe cases. They'd have difficulty leaving the bed, moving their arms around, etc.

>>92788248
S A V A G E

>>92797327
But that's because of loss of muscle mass due to inactivity; Aku is made of literal evil and possibly trees. He doesn't have such concerns.

>>92797416
He does seem to deal with stiffness with all his creaking, and we really have no idea if his powers lose potency without use

>>92797470
His powerlevel seems pretty consistent throughout the episodes so I'm guessing it does not.

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>>92774427

>glib facsimile

>>92797554
>His powerlevel seems pretty consistent throughout the episodes so I'm guessing it does not.
He gets wrecked in the first Jack fight without even using half his powers, which is pretty unlike their future fights. We also don't know how often he goes about wrecking people just to stretch his legs.

>>92797763
He really underestimated Jack. Also, for some reason whenever he fights in his castle he almost dies. Happened the same in Jack and the Gangsters. I think he's just afraid of wrecking the place or something.

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>>92797135
>Jack's plan didn't really go much further than "take away the gem so he can't use it" and "slash him till he dies". There's no real strategy fighting Aku aside from cutting up until nothing remains. If anything, Jack was anticipating Aku's attempt to catch him off guard the entire day.

Given, this is how it usually goes, but this fight in particular has Jack use a metric asston of intelligent fighting. First, he deflects Aku's eye lasers to knock him into the water. He then attacks him while he's recovering. After that, he stops Aku's fireballs with a wave of water, which he also uses as a diversion to slice him in two. Lastly, he slices his arm clean in half, and then almost kills him.

This fight is Jack at his best. He had to have thought this shit out. Everything he did here was perfect.

>But still, there's that jawline that's usually drawn to indicate age; I think my argument of the Emperor being over 40 still holds up.

In XCIV, The Emperor paints a much better picture of a middle-aged man. He's balding, the jawline is much more prominent, and he has forehead wrinkles.

The Emperor in BoE couldn't have been older than 30, and even that's a stretch.

>His status isn't definite evidence of his skill.

Technically, Jack's dad is a daimyō. It's also of note that some daimyō were promoted from the ranks of the samurai, and considering Jack's dad carries the title of samurai lord, promotion is most likely how he got to his position.

>To be fair, it wasn't nighttime; it just started raining.

You're correct on this part: However, it is worth noting that a large period of time must have taken place for the environment to turn from an inferno on a perfectly sunny day to a heap of ruins in the middle of a storm, especially considering how the rain must have gotten rid of all the fire. It was more than likely longer than an hour due to this.

>>92797808
I like to think the castle was the lake/tree he was born in and it simultaneously has a restorative yet restraining effect on him due to the nature of how he was born

>>92796615
What was so bad about GF's ending?

>>92797906
>This fight is Jack at his best. He had to have thought this shit out. Everything he did here was perfect.
I'd be inclined to believe you, and trust me, I'm really close to, if we didn't have stuff like Jack and the Bounty Hunters. In that fight he was just improvising and what he did was fucking spectacular.
>In XCIV, The Emperor paints a much better picture of a middle-aged man. He's balding, the jawline is much more prominent, and he has forehead wrinkles.

The Emperor in BoE couldn't have been older than 30, and even that's a stretch.

I'll give you late 30s at best though. Besides, does that look like a 38 year old man? My own dad is 50 and he looks like the Emperor when he fought Aku in BoE. I dunno, everyone ages differently, but Jack's father was definitely close to hitting 40 at least when he first met Aku.
>Technically, Jack's dad is a daimyō. It's also of note that some daimyō were promoted from the ranks of the samurai, and considering Jack's dad carries the title of samurai lord, promotion is most likely how he got to his position.
I'm not going to argue this because of my lack of knowledge on Japanese culture. Still, a Samurai's honor and respect depended on how well they served their master, not really how well they fought. You could get to that position by burning babies. Which the Emperor definitely didn't do, but for all we know he got to that rank thanks to strategic vision. Although he's still a exceptional fighter.
>About the rain
While from a logical perspective this makes sense, I feel that putting off the fires so fast was purely an stylistic move. Genndy's storytelling is very visual; having the fires extinguished by rain is a clever way to say that the fight was finally over.

>>92798170
>if we didn't have stuff like Jack and the Bounty Hunters. In that fight he was just improvising and what he did was fucking spectacular.

I'm not denying his skill, but it'd definitely be easier to do all that great shit on those bounty hunters, considering how they aren't shit compared to Jack.

Aku's the actual incarnation of evil, so I'd imagine he poses a greater threat than those guys.

>I'll give you late 30s at best though. Besides, does that look like a 38 year old man? My own dad is 50 and he looks like the Emperor when he fought Aku in BoE.

First off, your dad aged like a champ, so props to him.

Second, I'd argue that the jawline, in combination with other attributes like baldness and wrinkles, makes you look old, but isn't a particularly good indicator of age by itself. Jack's dad's jawline is basically the only thing in BoE that suggests he might be old, and even then, he just looks like Jack if you took the mustache off. It's probable that he's in his 30s, but 40 and over brings to mind the Emperor circa XCIV.

>While from a logical perspective this makes sense, I feel that putting off the fires so fast was purely an stylistic move. Genndy's storytelling is very visual; having the fires extinguished by rain is a clever way to say that the fight was finally over.

Your assumption in relating the fire going out to a stylistic approach is correct, but it going out so fast is accomplished by the jumpcut. Therefore, Genndy can use the extinguished fires as a symbol for the end while letting the viewer assume that the fight went on for an remarkably long period of time, hence cutting the scene from the middle of an inferno to completely doused ruins.

>>92798606
>I'm not denying his skill, but it'd definitely be easier to do all that great shit on those bounty hunters, considering how they aren't shit compared to Jack.
>Aku's the actual incarnation of evil, so I'd imagine he poses a greater threat than those guys.
Well, they were famed Bounty Hunters; obviously they've been around. Also, Aku is a very particular kind of villain because he always wins except when there's the chance that he doesn't. He might be the incarnation of evil, but he's not a great fighter.

>First off, your dad aged like a champ, so props to him.

Hey thanks, I'll be sure to tell him.

>Second, I'd argue that the jawline, in combination with other attributes like baldness and wrinkles, makes you look old, but isn't a particularly good indicator of age by itself. Jack's dad's jawline is basically the only thing in BoE that suggests he might be old, and even then, he just looks like Jack if you took the mustache off. It's probable that he's in his 30s, but 40 and over brings to mind the Emperor circa XCIV.
I still feel that Jack's age was advanced at that time by looking how different he is from that moment in merely 8 years. He looked like a decrepit old man 17 years after that, and while malnutrition played a big part he still seemed a lot older than Jack's mum, and even in BoE she did look much younger, probably in her 20s.
>but it going out so fast is accomplished by the jumpcut. Therefore, Genndy can use the extinguished fires as a symbol for the end while letting the viewer assume that the fight went on for an remarkably long period of time, hence cutting the scene from the middle of an inferno to completely doused ruins.

I'm not entirely sure about this one. I did remember sort of a jumpcut but watching it again the transition is lighting strikes, we cut back to the fire and suddenly it's put out by water. No dissolve, no black screen, it goes right away to rain.

>>92798872
>Well, they were famed Bounty Hunters; obviously they've been around.

Bounty hunters, even good ones, aren't more than fodder to Jack, especially seeing as how the "grunts" of the show end up being bounty hunters.

Also, Aku is one of the less common types of villains, in that he's nigh unstoppable, but is usually set back through circumstance when facing off against the protagonist. This persists from the Pilot (one could argue that his clunkiness in combat was due to circumstance, as after dominating the planet he would have little to do regarding combat) to the last episode. Aku would more than likely win a completely non-contextual, fair fight against Jack.

>I still feel that Jack's age was advanced at that time by looking how different he is from that moment in merely 8 years. He looked like a decrepit old man 17 years after that, and while malnutrition played a big part he still seemed a lot older than Jack's mum, and even in BoE she did look much younger, probably in her 20s

The Emperor's appearance is all over the place. His appearance in XCIV and EP1 show him in various stages of middle age, complete with all the physical attributes one would expect from someone in their late 40s to 50s.
On the other hand, his appearance in BoE shows him as a man in his prime, with the only indication of age being a jawline. Then, we see Jack as a newborn, implying he went from a dude in his late 20s to 30s to a guy in his 50s in, like, 7 years.

It's fine to assume he's just an old guy by the time BoE rolls around, but this is more than likely just another example of SJ's flimsy writing (like how King Jack was literally prophesied, and then never happened).

>No dissolve, no black screen, it goes right away to rain.

There was actually a lightning strike, but the fire was still there after it. The lightning struck, and then the screen faded to a later point in time.

>>92774069
When you think about it, Samurai Jack is the Loss.jpg of series finales

>take a stupid gag show with powerpuff girl dogs, farting dragons, lol funny rave parties and other silly joke shit
>make the finale EDGY and BLOOD and EVERYONE DIES and DRAMA
>make a main character become time/space miscarried

>>92799481
Good lord, we've overtaken the entire thread with our autism, haven't we?

Bounty hunters, even good ones, aren't more than fodder to Jack, especially seeing as how the "grunts" of the show end up being bounty hunters.

Aku kind of is fodder to Jack as well. Among the only enemies to ever give Jack a run for his money I think there's only the Imakandi, the Guardian and The Minions of Set.

Aku is also unique in that he's the final boss of the series he's in, but at the same time he's also not the greatest threat Jack's ever encountered and is beaten in every encounter they have.
I have trouble with your statement of
>Aku would more than likely win a completely non-contextual, fair fight against Jack.
I don't quite understand what you mean, unless you're implying Jack gets the best of Aku due to plot armor.
>It's fine to assume he's just an old guy by the time BoE rolls around, but this is more than likely just another example of SJ's flimsy writing (like how King Jack was literally prophesied, and then never happened).
Well, continuity was never one of the show's strongest point. I'm not getting into an argument about King Jack, but they at least acknowledged the portal and how Aku put an end to that part of Jack's destiny.

>There was actually a lightning strike, but the fire was still there after it. The lightning struck, and then the screen faded to a later point in time.
If there was a fade it was extremely subtle, because I did not notice any; I just saw the fire being put down and replaced with scotched ruins in a second.

Now, this discussion has been pretty fun, not going to deny that. But I don't even remember what we were arguing about. At this point I'm just glad I was able to have a decent conversation about SJ with someone, but we've been at this for over 8 hours (I think). I wouldn't mind leaving this in a stalemate and going home. If you really want to we can keep going, but I don't see the point of it anymore.

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>>92800116
Oh yeah. We've conquered this whole fucking thread with this stuff.

>Aku kind of is fodder to Jack as well. Among the only enemies to ever give Jack a run for his money I think there's only the Imakandi, the Guardian and The Minions of Set.

Granted, Jack owns most of the actual fights with Aku, but Aku usually ends up psychologically fucking him over. Good examples of this are S5E7, Jack and the Warrior Woman, The Aku Infection, S5E9 and S5E10 (the latter more because Ashi died due to him). To this end, I'd say that they're about even with each other, especially considering how Aku's antics circa S5E7 caused Jack to basically get depression and
mental instability over 50 years.

>I don't quite understand what you mean, unless you're implying Jack gets the best of Aku due to plot armor.

If you got Jack and Aku in a fight, with no prior circumstances giving one or the other an edge in the competition, Aku would probably win.

>If there was a fade it was extremely subtle, because I did not notice any; I just saw the fire being put down and replaced with scotched ruins in a second.

I watched that scene a bunch, and they definitely faded in to some undetermined point later on in the day, especially seeing as how the rain faded in at the same time as the ruins did. There are also considerably less Aku soldiers as there were in the previous scene.

A stalemate is fair, seeing as how we both did good in the discussion, bringing up fair points and such.

[spoilers]We should get out of here, because we really annihilated this thread bro holy shit[spoilers]

>>92800658
The fucking spoiler macro is broken too, good to know

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>>92800658
Well anon, it's been nice knowing you. I've actually had a lot of fun discussing with you, on the virtue of you not being a cunt. That's kinda rare.
Well, we'll probably end up arguing in another SJ thread some time in the future without either of us knowing, so I'll be looking forward to that. I'll see you around; now I really need a good fap.

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>>92801253
See ya later, alligator
Can't wait to never get a civilized SJ discussion on this fucking board ever again

>>92783851
What was the problem with Phantom Planet? I honestly never watched DP's finale.

>>92800658
>Granted, Jack owns most of the actual fights with Aku, but Aku usually ends up psychologically fucking him over. Good examples of this are S5E7, Jack and the Warrior Woman, The Aku Infection, S5E9 and S5E10 (the latter more because Ashi died due to him). To this end, I'd say that they're about even with each other, especially considering how Aku's antics circa S5E7

Antics Jack overcame. None of those examples are Aku winning against Jack in a real fight. You have Aku tricking Jack, Aku accidentally getting him sick, and Jack fighting without his sword.

In a fight between Jack and AKu Jack with his sword he annihilates Aku. There's nothing fair about that fight. Jack wins. No contest.

So I don't know what you could possibly expect from a climactic showdown? Aku giving Jack the flu? Aku tricking him into not fighting while Aku obliterates an army?

What you've got is your headcanon telling you that they're evenly matched and not enjoying the fact that they are clearly not.

>>92787152
i gave it a 5/10 because the eps had good bits, but there were so many things introduced and then just forgotten or done poorly, the green ghost was cool, but the way it was rushed at the end of an episode with so much wasted Scaramouch time (i LIKED Scaramouch, but did we really need so many episodes with him as the B story?), or the way they re-introduced demongo for a one time joke and then didn't even acknowledge it again (yeah, it was a funny one time gag).
i have no issues with Ashi except for how much time she took up in a 10 episode season, the spaceship episode was really well done to make it clear they were falling for each-other.

i stand by the 5/10 rating, but keep in mind, that's not a bad score, that just means it was inoffensively fine, not great, not shit, just fine overall.

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>>92801998

>>92801253
God damn it I read that in Wander's voice.

>>92774324
Literally, L I T E R A L L Y got it backward.

>>92787029
That's not really the point, IMO.

The ending should've preserved the 4 seasons of world building that Genndy had crafted. The show was crafted on futuristic sci-fi/technology/aliens/magic, but the show ends in such a way that it only exists as a distant memory for Jack now. He returns to his homeland, yes, but it's a homeland he only knew in peace from age 0 to 8, when Aku attacked, then left his homeland to train around the world until he was 25, returned to defeat Aku but was sent forward in time, where he had lived in the future for 50 years from his own time perspective.

It's hard to consider a place that you only knew for 8 years (dubious that he really remembered anything significant before he was 5, so more like 3 years of memories) before traveling around the world, then traveling around the world again (but in the future).

In consideration of the world building Genndy had created (with the various peoples Jack had saved, civilizations restored from the slavery of Aku and his minions), it would've been (cliche, yes) ideal that Jack returns to the past to save his homeland only to not feel like he's really home and to realize that now that Aku is gone, he's not really needed in this time.

At that point Jack would return to the future to continue his good deeds and adventures, (somewhat like Shonens like Dragon Ball do) and Jack just continues his adventures and Ronin-like wandering, as he finds comfort and humbleness in doing so for a living.

>>92804723
Furthermore, the way the show ends it's like, yeah all those people Jack saved? They weren't worth saving anyways because he was going to "undo the future that is Aku", but in doing so Genndy's undoing the great world he's written.

>>92774069
if you replace ashi with the guardian of the portal samurai jack ended pretty much the way i thought it was going to.

>>92774069
My order
>RS
>GF
>SJ

I don't know the other show

>>92774462
>WoY
I didn't watched but wasn't it suddently canned? Did they actually had the chance to write a finale?