Red Hood and Nightwing team up

>>92666125
No.

>>92666125
Robinfags will never settle, anon, the only alliance they have is Dickfags and Damianfags, they all hate each other and no amount of comics will satisfy that

>>92666156

Yep. Jason and Dick fans hate each other. Dickfags especially hate Lobdell. Its going to make it worse.

>>92666156

Do Timfags not like Dick anymore?

>>92666125
Obviously no because Dick fans really hate Jason.

>>92666243
No, DC destroyed Dick and Tim's relationship

>>92666244
>implying it's not vice versa

Just as many Jasonfags hate Dick too, you'd think the biggest rivalry would be Tim and Damian fans but I guess because Dick and Jason are the two most popular their fans are the largest groups

>>92666271

It was the best relationship too. Fucking DC.

>>92666243
Timfags don't exist anymore

Anyway they hate Damian

>>92666301
The fact that Jason fans were excited to see Dick in the annual while Dick fans have a meltdown over it pretty much proves that why I said is the truth.

>>92666125

I actually have hope because Lobdell hs been good since Rebirth started. I want Jason and Dick to get along. Fans too. I mean neither of them are Tim at least.

>>92666125
>expecting me to read Redhood shit

No thanks.

>>92666345
Probably because the first Outlaws book poisoned the well for Dickfans, which didnt happen to Jason fans.

>>92666345
When the fuck did that happen?

>>92666381
Theres some on CBR, but tbf they cite the first terrible Outlaws book as a legit reason.

>>92666345
Doesn't suprise. They are always the ones who try to start a fight with them in /co/.

>>92666381
In the August solicitations thread here in /co/.

>>92666417
>CBR

Every single fan on CBR is awful, the Robinfags there are even worse than the ones on here

>>92666459
I was in that thread and nobody had a meltdown, more people had a meltdown about the potential Dickbabs in August Batgirl

>>92666345

Scott Lobdell hates Dick Grayson.

>>92666345
People can like them both...

>>92666459

If theres was any meltdown it was overshadowed by REEEEEing over the potential Dickbabs

oh lol I got beaten>>92666488

>>92666125

Okay guys any predictions on how this is gonna go?

>>92666488
Were you in the thread till the end? Because it happened after it hit 500 replies where some anon started crying about how Lobdell hates Dick.

>>92666555
To be fair he kind of does seem to hate Dick, didn't he project his own shitty relationship onto Dick and Starfire's? I can't remember the details

>>92666508
I'm pretty sure that I didn't claim otherwise.

>>92666555
As someone who was in the thread, can people explain this to me? Does he really hate Dick or is he just bad at writing him? Theres a difference.

>>92666581
He doesn't cares about him or felt that he was necessary to be included. That doesn't means that he hates him.

>>92666581

Yup. He did. He said that exes can't be friends, that he wasn't friends with his ex, that Dick was bad for Kory, that Dick was boring, that Dick would never appear as long as he was in the book, and so on.

It was when RHatO was at the start and the interview was for Comicvine.

>>92666581
Dick is so bland to hated him.

People either like him or indifferent to him.

>>92666548
>Dick hits on Artemis
> She finds him annoying
> Jason only wanted Dick's help because he's scared of clowns
> Dick tries bonding, but it doesnt work
> Dick is bossy because he likes being leader.

>>92666635
>that Dick was bad for Kory
He is right. Dick cheated on her in their wedding day.

Also, don't lie anon. He never said that Dick will never be in the book.

>>92666670

I bet the Starfire thing will be brought up in order to cause a fight between Jason and Dick.

>>92666548
>Dick and Jason fight and argue at start of team up
>end up with 'aw they really do love each other'
>this character development never carries off into other books and is forgotten about

>>92666629

This is bad, mostly because Dick was besties with 2/3 members of the group. He was essential to Korys past and Roy's bff which made it seem like hate when it wasn't. Double awkward since Rebirth fixed it.

>>92666699

He said.

And are you seriously mentioning that stupid annual that was terribly written and filled with retcons? Come on.

>>92666705

To be honest, it seems like other writers have already fixed Jason/Dick's relationship. Jason's own book is actually the last piece.

>>92666699
>Devin Grayson Nightwing

Wew

>>92666701

Why? Jason did'nt sleep with her and Dick has recently so why would he care?

>>92666711
Dick's TT weren't canon in n52 so he actually wasn't bestie with Roy.

He acknowledged that Kori had a relationship with him and they and there was literally no needs to bring him up because he has nothing to do with what was going on.

>>92666711

Heck, in the Death of the Family tie-in issue of RHatO when the Outlaws were in the Wayne Manor he showed Dick hiding himself from Kory and Roy, and Jason having to come and tell Dick to stop acting like an asshole because Kory was a good person and didn't deserved to be mistreated by Dick, and Dick responding that Jason didn't knew about shit and should not get involved.

It was basically implied in the issue that something had happened in the past between Dick and Kory, to the point where Kory almost tried to kill Dick. It was never expanded upon, but essentially Dick and Kory broke up in very bad terms.

So yeah, Lobdell wasn't interested in showing Dick, Kory and Roy on good terms at all.

>>92666785

Ummm have you read Titans or Teen Titans lately?

>>92666785
*they broke up so there

>>92666785
I'm just glad Roy and Dick's past as friends on TT has been brought back now.
Are Roy and Kory coming back to Outlaws again or is their friendship with Jason retconned?

>>92666785

>Dick's TT weren't canon in n52 so he actually wasn't bestie with Roy.

At the start of Nu52 Lobdell specifically brought up the time Roy and Kory where on the New Teen Titans to make a point that Kory didn't remembered nor cared about Dick or the rest of team, she just wanted a good hard dicking and it didn't mattered from whom.

And now Rebirth retconned Dick and Roy's time as past friends and members of the original TT. Go read Abnett's Titans.

>>92666820
Yes, and it was a recton happened with Titans hunt dumbass.

DC wanted Tim's TT to be the first team and they only acknowledged Dick's TT as part of rebirth.

>>92666845
Lobdell said they're going to guest star at some point before issue 15ish I think. All 3 are under the same editor so hopefully things work out well when that happens.

>>92666851
He wanted to acknowledge Dick's TT, but the editors were against it and they even erased the mention in RHATO'S trade.

>>92666790

Which worked against him because it upset fans of those characters with long relationships an looks dumb because he never expanded on what caused that badness. Not it looks extra stupid because Rebirth fixed the 3's relationship.

>>92666876
>>92666923

The fact that the first Teen Titans was the team lead by Tim was a retcon that happened half-way through the Nu52

At the start of the Nu52 when writers weren't sure what was still canon or not it was regarded that the Titans past was still canon. RHatO #1 opened with Roy wondering why Kory was following Jason since she was Dick's girl or if Kory really couldn't remember Dick nor the rest of the Teen Titans.

Even after the retcon Lobdell still kept the fact that Kory had a thing with Dick and that Dick and Roy had been friends.

>>92666920
Sounds cool, I'd like to see them interact with Artemis and Bizarro

>>92666876

Actually did'nt Lobdell and Snyder originally acknowledge them?

>>92666845
>Are Roy and Kory coming back to Outlaws again or is their friendship with Jason retconned?
It still canon and have been referred in Rebirth RHatO and TT.

And this >>92666920

>>92666962

Yes, they did.

That anon simple doesn't want to acknowledge that Lobdell doesn't like Nightwing and has gone on record on this.

>>92666845

I do wonder if Lodbell will acknowledge the changes they've been through.

>>92666998
I think he's more indifferent towards Dick, but projected his own relationship onto Dick x Starfire too much, I wouldn't say he completely hates Dick but he's not good at writing him

>>92666999

Probably not. He'll probably show Roy and Kory still very much into each other and missing Jason and not acknowledge whatever has been happening much.

>>92666999

It'll fucking awkward if he does
Kori: Dick is now back to true love status and she talks to him now

Roy: Dick is now back to bff status, is his team leader,and is now mackin on Donna

Both: Never bring up jason

Jason: Brings them both up & might still dislike Dick

>>92667021

Yeah, hate is too much. He just doesn't like the character much. The few times he wrote Dick he wrote him as a know-it-all jerk.

>>92666958
>Dick and Roy had been friends
He didn't keep that because Titans hunt happened during DCYOU and Kori was still never part of TT.

The writers were unsure and n52 editors were a freaking mess who didn't make things clear to them and keep erasing things behind their backs. Lobdell actually said in an interview that the editors were changing things without his knowledge.

>>92667028

No way. people would fucking rage. They are under the same editor now too, so no way that goes through.

>>92667087

You'll see.

>>92666998
Are you an idiot? Did you forget about how the Dick's TT were forgotten and they started to remember in Titans Hunt?

Go read Titans Hunt and Rebirth Titans first arc before you make yourself look more foolish than you already are.

>>92667075

Dude, the only thing that was retconned was the first that there was a team called Teen Titans previously Tim's team.

The fact that Dick, Kory and Roy knew each other was kept, even after the retcon, precisely because of how Lobdell messed things up before. He just never had Roy talking much about Dick because he didn't want to. The same for Kory and Dick, outside of having to deal with the memory problem subplot he had introduced or the Death of the Family tie-in.

>>92666764
Devin Grayson didn't write that Annual
She was off Nightwing by then

>>92667149

What was retconned was the fact that a team named Teen Titans existed before the one lead by Tim. But they kept the idea that Dick, Roy and Kory had a been in a team before as a way to explain the Dick and Kory connection.

Trust me, i know this shit.

>>92666998
>Dick fans are insecure and stupid too
Can't say I'm suprised.

>>92667198

Just go back and re-read the comics.

>>92667151
>>92667186
How about you give me proof of that, then?

I just want to see Artemis be to be the 2nd Red Head to turn down Dick

>>92667255

Just download the digital versions of the first RHatO trade-paperbacks, which were altered to satisfy the hazy retcon. Nightwing is still there in the flashbacks, only with a red colored Nightwing suit.

>>92667264

What was the first?

>>92667330

Batwoman aka Kate

>>92667305
My God, you are really are dumbass and doesn't actually didn't read anything I have said.

Kori's relationship with Dick was never erased and she was never part of his team. Roy and Dick didn't have a history in N52 until titans hunt happened.

>>92667393
Wait, Kori wasn't part of the original TT?

>>92667393

>Roy and Dick didn't have a history in N52 until titans hunt happened.

But they did. That's where we are disagreeing.

>>92667416
No, the current crossover confirmed that she wasn't.

>>92667426
And you still didn't show me a proof of that.

>>92667452

Fuck it. Wait a minute. I'll do. I don't even know why you're so hung up on this.

>>92666670
>> Jason only wanted Dick's help because he's scared of clowns

I feel a little bad for laughing at this.

>>92666125

The art on Dick looks bad. He should'nt be so bulky

>>92667490
Find nothing? I told you that DC erased their history.

>>92667715

I'm downloading a 200+mb trade for this. Wait a bit.

>>92667654

I will legit laugh if that happens

>>92666125
1) Is it just me or does Jason stay in Gotham a lof more these days and
2) Does this mean out of costume stuff?? I ant Dick and Jason undercover at the Circus/

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>>92667715
>>92667764

Here you go. This is from the trade, which was altered to fit the retcon that the only Teen Titans that ever existed was the one at the time currently lead by Tim. Still, they couldn't erase completely the fact that Lobdell had already not only mentioned but shown Nightwing in flashbacks several times. So the compromise was that Dick, Kory and Roy knew each other and were part of some obscure team. Not exactly one called Teen Titans, but a team nonetheless.

Lobdell didn't had Nightwing later interacting with Kory or Roy just because he didn't really wanted it. Not because of editorial. Nothing wrong with that, though.

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I'll just go ahead and post the other appearances and mentions of Nightwing, since i download this shit for nothing.

>>92667993
>>92668025

This makes Jason look both whiny and petty concerning Dick

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>>92667960
Here's the original pic.

>>92668084
>>92667960

I haven't read this in years but....Dick, Kori and Roy really did use to work with each other.

But Roy doesn't recognize Kori at all......does he have amnesia too?

>>92668025
Post next page please

>>92668123
And it's a reference to this in issue 1.

Lobdell meant TT, but it was earsed and the editors were too lazy to earse Roy from that pic.

>Dick and Jason are my two favorite Robins
This pleases me.

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>>92668197
Forget the pic.

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I find hilarious how Lobdell tried to push the angle that because Kory's an alien she couldn't distinguish humans apart nor commit them to memory after some time apart, despite her being as human-like as us, or then the fact that because she's an alien she felt she was distrusted and feared by the humans for not being human herself and that mostly being the reason why she been living secluded in that tiny island, despite her being pretty much a hot girl who just happens to be orange and this being the DCU where Superman, an alien, is the most beloved hero on Earth.

Thankfully he dropped that persecution shit since this is not the X-Men, although he couldn't really drop the memory thing just as easily.

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>>92668227

Dude, they kept Roy friendship with Dick even in the trade.

>>92667960

This is creepy as fuck. Also why did'nt Jason just tell her?

>>92667960
Dude, they rectonned that later and they didn't remove him from there because it's actually harder to do so.

That anon was actually right that they didn't have any history between them.

>>92668197
>Lobdell meant TT, but it was earsed and the editors were too lazy to earse Roy from that pic.

What?

>>92668227

Now I'm even more confused.

No wait, I looked at the other page again, looks like Roy did remember Kori, but he's treating her like a stranger.

>>92668299

Because Jason wanted to use her as a weapon. Roy also kept kept his mouth quiet about her hanging with Jason or not being able to remember her past with Dick because he also wanted to her for easy sex.

So it is intentionally creepy.

>>92668292

This entire page makes roy and Jason look skeevy

>>92667960
>>92667993
>>92668025
>>92668084
>>92668292
Jesus Christ Jason is written as a complete asshole in this book

>>92668299

Her sniffing Dicks dirty clothes is creepier

>>92668292
You truly something.

Nothing about this imply that were friends. He obviously knows about him since Dick's was Batman's first Robin and he knows about Kori.

>>92668227

Alright I'm finally asking who the hell is Dustin?

>>92668357

Yep. This is why Dickfags are worried.

>>92668352

Because they acted skeevy as fuck.

Reminder that Lobdell original intent was to not have any romance in the book and instead show the three as fuck-buddies. Meaning that the team would essentially be Jason and Roy taking advantage of Kory's alien impairment of not being able to distinguish or remember humans much for their benefit.

>>92668357
Why does he write Jason like a fucking frat douche?

>>92668314
I have to agree.

I think maybe Roy crossed path with Dick and Kori before, but they weren't friends.

>>92668437

So was it going to get gay at some point or not?

Also
> Write a book about sluts
> No Dick grayson

Lobdell pls

>>92668443

Because that's how he wanted to portray him. Jason was the tough cool guy that needed no one and would constantly remind them of that. He basically treated Kory and Roy as his lost puppies.

>>92668292

Okay this is some skeevy stuff.

>>92668348

Really skeevy stuff.

>>92668357

Yeah this book really does make him look bad.
I only read a couple books for RHATO, but I still wasn't sure what was canon for Jason and I really don't know what's canon for Jason now since Rebirth.

I'm still clinging onto New Earth Jason.
(for the longest time I thought New Earth was supposed to be called Earth Prime....and now it turns out Nu52/Rebirth is Prime Earth.)

>>92668357
>>92668443
Because Jason is a jerk who learned to be nicer to people later? I mean, there's something called "development" which Jason went through and we got the results in Rebirth.

>>92668485
His Jason reads like some fourteen year old's self insert OC. Like that is literally what some teenager thinks his cool stand in would sound like in their webcomic or fanfic. I guess at least Marvel isn't alone in having shot writers.

>>92668539
This. There was even mention on how his relationship with Kori and Roy soften him up.

>>92668485

Wonder what made him change for Rebirth?

>>92668597
Editorial telling Lobdell he done fucked up.

>>92668428

But It's Jason not Dick who looks bad here

>>92668485
Did you people even read past issue 1? Did you read how Jason refused to leave Roy side when he was hurt and how much he admired kori?

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>>92668539
>>92668581

Lobdell sucks for character development, though. The character development amounted to this fucking page. This is the second issue. Not even an issue have passed and Jason was already monologuing about feeling good about having them following him, but not wanting to admit it and playing the tough guy routine.

Also, originally in this page Roy was alluding to the fact Jason and Kory had fucked and that he and Kory had fucked and they should talk about it before being cut off by the other two. Of course, after the backlash Lobdell dropped the threesome angle fast and later had Roy and Kory as an actual romantic couple, something he had promised he'd never do.

>>92668627
He's not written much for Dick, but if he fucks up Jason, Roy, and Kory this badly people would have concerns over how he'd write Dick in a story where he's one of the main characters

>>92668650

Do you remember the backlash that forced them to put issue 6 ahead of issue 1 in the trade?

Jason still acted as a dudebro that would constantly humiliate Roy in the book.

>>92668539
>Because Jason is a jerk who learned to be nicer to people later?

Yeah but before Nu52, Jason did become nicer after a while when he was still Robin at least (but we don't see that here) So it's a little off-putting. And I don't think he was initially going to murder Bruce as soon as he came back, but was mostly trying to get Bruce to murder the Joker. (although my memory could be wrong)

Then again Jason also used to be completely insane, but still had a heart for some people.

>>92668694
Not to mention how OOC Roy was

>>92668650
>Did you people even read past issue 1
Silly anon. Of course they didn't.

The first issue was seriously bad, but it did pick up later and become one of my most enjoyable book of N52. There were really likable as a team.

>>92668659
>300 pound gorilla
Grod?

>>92668659
Damn Roy is a loser. The League line lol. What do Jason and Dick see in him?

>>92668667

Hmmm thats true

>>92668741
Believe it or not, anon, this was the only time Roy was portrayed like this, his usual character is pretty different

>>92668711

I read the entire book. Like i said, Lobdell is terrible with character development. By issue two Jason was already monologuing to himself (or the reader) how he was already liking having Roy and Kory following him or complimenting them, while at the same time still playing the cool loner and humiliating Roy at every turn.

Fuck, Crux entire character development happened off-page and was explained to the reader in a huge infodump.

>>92668741

Yeah, was the "pathetic funny guy who is super useful sometimes" in the book. He didn't wanted to be alone and was pretty much co-dependent on Jason and Kory, specially on Jason, despite Jason constantly putting him down. He kept being that way throughout the entire book.

>>92668741

He probably got knocked on the head and all the overwhelming bad things in his life broke him. So now he's like this.

>>92668741

They both like red heads

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Remember how this page pissed readers back in the day? Good times.

>>92668915
Gross Roy. Dick had his dick in there.

>>92666705
>never carries off into other books and is forgotten about
That's true for everything Lobdell writes, the poor guy.

>>92668659
Development doesn't happen in the second issue (which is this page from). Jason didn't trust anyone and never had friends before so he didn't know how to deal with them first.

Issues later, jason startred to really appreciate them and become a better friend to them. This is what we call development.

official indisputable robin rankings

1) Dick - he is the robin that has been his own man for the longest with countless great stories and a very well defined character post-robin
2) Damian - he filled the robin role in the most interesting way out of every robin. he has a lot of depth and inner conflict that makes him a great character with already many great stories under his belt
3) Jason - An interesting Robin with a handful of good stories, interesting dynamic with the batfamily but obviously he has been quite heavily underutilized by most writers who worked with him. a lot of his solo stories have been bland action adventures.
4) Tim - boring cunt

the other robins dont even count theyre a complete waste of everyones time and will never be good

>>92669002

Dude, by the third and fourth issue they're already thick as blood. There was no character development. Lobdell has the character monologue all their changes to make it stick to the reader and these changes are abrupt as fuck.

>>92669025
I can agree with this

>>92666705

I'll be happy if that second point pans out. They've hated each other for too long.

>>92668396
Some dumb OC Lobdell never got to introduce

>>92668803
Till this day, I never understood why people watch/read things they hate.

I liked the book and didn't get triggered by it because I'm not against writers doing something different with characters nor did think his take was offensive.

>>92669061
They don't hate each other currently, they hung out in an issue of Nightwing and got along well in the Batburger issue of King's Batman

>>92669061

They've been bros in Nightwing. I doubt Lobdell will show them as bros.

>>92669025
>Nu52 taste

>>92669077

Is fun to hate read or hate watch things, specially when you're attached to the characters. It's not something that can be helped if you're a fan.

>>92669100
point me to two good tim arcs not part of the same run where he doesnt have completely inconsistent characterization. he is a non character

>>92669043
>Dude, by the third and fourth issue they're already thick as blood
.......oh man.

Development. Takes. Time. Jason is going to suddenly trust by issue 3 or 4 because this it would be dumb if he did.

>>92669079

That's true, but it was for a short time.

>>92669080

Wut why not?

>>92669123
I'm fan of some characters, but if I didn't like something, I simply don't bother.

I like to spend my time on things I like.

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>>92669043

>>92669141

Don't expect character development in a Lobdell book.

Either a character will narrate to an invisible person how much he changed at the span of a single issue or a character will disappear for issues and then come back just to tell everyone all these wondrous experiences it went through and how much these adventures changed it but you'll never be able to read outside of this huge infodump detailing everything.

>>92669177

Come on, you never been to a story-time of pain before?

>>92669043
>Dude, by the third and fourth issue they're already thick as blood
They cared, but they weren't quickly friends. They even refused to call each other a team until much later.

>>92669025
>the other robins dont even count

Who?

No honestly the only other Robin's I remember were Stephanie (who wasn't a real robin) and Carrie Kelley (who wasn't/isn't in the main canon as Robin).

>>92669254
I did. To laugh at people's reaction, but I never followed a series I didn't like or have no interest in.

>>92669273

No wait, Duke exists.
But I don't know anything about him.

>>92666376
Lobdell's been pretty decent acutally

>>92669273
> Stephanie (who wasn't a real robin

Try telling her fans that

>>92669230
I have read RHATO, RH/A and the current book. Jason has matured and grow through all these years and has become better than he was ever before.

So yeah, I expect development from Lobdell.

>>92669402
You actually right.

Many fans have warmed up to Jason in Rebirth (even some of his biggest haters) thanks to the work Lobdell put in him

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>>92666125
>tfw I like what all the Robins bring to the table, even though I hate Damian
I even feel like hating Damian is kind of the point.

>>92669230

These and there are instances of Lobdell not really knowing what to do with a character and said character completely changing it's entire character arc without any rhyme or reason. Starfire was a good example.

In the start she lived inside a shipwrecked starship on this tiny island secluded from everything because she felt persecuted for being an alien and because she couldn't remember her past human lover who she tried very much to remember again because she was an alien and her race memories work differently. So she follows Jason because he reminds him of her mysterious lover.

Then this is dropped and out of nowhere her old alien crew finds her and it's revealed she is the most respected and feared starship commander in all of the galaxy that fought to liberate enslaved alien races. Her crew needs her to liberated her planet. The reason why she's on Earth, shipwrecked on a tiny island or can't remember things are never addressed. In the end she bids farewell to her old crew and decide to remain with her new boyfriend and friend.

Then it is revealed that she can actually remember everything, she only lied she couldn't for some reason. Something bad happened in the past and she wanted to distance herself from it. The fact about her race processing memories differently or her having a hard time to remember Dick even with the aid of his scent on his old uniforms are never addressed, nor is what really happened in the past or why she lied.

Theeen... it is revealed that Earth is a den for a bunch of disguised alien slavers and that she knew this. Despite being a freedom fighter that fight against alien enslavement she never did anything about it before. Not only that but her own capturer and torturer lives on Earth. She then goes to do some space-crack because of it and almost kills Roy in her drug-filled haze.

She just change between character arcs without any logic put into it.

>>92669339
He's better than Robin :^)

>>92669402

Jason in RHatO and RH/A kept treating Roy as shit and playing the cool tough guy act despite narrating to the readers how much he liked and respected Roy, something he started doing since the third issue of RHatO. THAT IS NOT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

Jason in the new book is a lot nicer and humbler, though, so i give you that.

>>92669387

I don't think they'd listen.
Especially since at one point Stephanie bragged saying that she had a lot of experience because she had been "Spoiler, Batgirl AND Robin!"

God damn it, she wasn't a real Robin!
She put herself into that role because she loved Tim (and wanted him to come back or some shit), Batman didn't even want her around. Then she looked at one of the plans Batman had sitting around, took the plan, and tried to enact it by herself. She then screwed everything over and practically got herself killed; making Bruce look like the worst mentor ever for having yet another dead robin and for letting another kid be a vigilante even though he didn't even want her to.

>>92669080
>>92669079

To be fair them hanging out had no developmet. It was super sudden and ooc for Jason . Maybe that's what prompted Lobdell to do this story?

>>92669575
Kori as a slave was explored since issue three actually and her lying about forgetting was made up by Tynion.

Kori's arc was quite easy to understand. She was slave as kid and it made ihard for her to trust people. She became a space captain because she couldn't stay in her home after what happened. Her crew broke up later and then she landed on earth where she meet Dick and decided to stay. She broke with him, she was lonely and lost hope in humanity because of their wars. She couldn't come back home so she decided to forget and isolate herself until she met Jason and Roy.

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>>92669043
>Dude, by the third and fourth issue they're already thick as blood. There was no character development. Lobdell has the character monologue all their changes to make it stick to the reader and these changes are abrupt as fuck.

Nope

Issue 3

Lobdell is writing it so I imagine it will just make things worse. I'd be surprised if Dick is written anywhere close to being in character.

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>>92669943

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>>92669967

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>>92670003
issue 4

>>92669633
Jason and Roy weren't a touchy feely kind of guys. They are bros who didn't hesitate to insult each other, but they still cared a lot about each other and Jason showed to Roy how much he appreciate him when it was needed.

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>>92670041

>>92669895

I know Kory was a slave and that this was brought in issue three, specially the same issue that is mentioned her race process memories differently.

Even then her character arcs changed without any fucks given by Lobdell. What you're doing is pretty much fill the holes Lobdell left and give a cohesive narrative to it.

For example, if she was so dedicated to hunting down alien slavers why did she never went after the ones that she knew lived on Earth instead of lazying around in that island?

What happened between her and Dick, and why at first she couldn't remember him and then later could remember him fine?

You're filling the holes.

>>92669967
>>92670003
>>92670041
What are you trying to prove here exactly?

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>>92670072

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>>92670126

>>92670107
That they weren't thick as blood by issue 3 and 4 as that anon claims

>>92670072

I don't like how cold and above people her behavior seems.

>>92669943

Unh... thanks for proving my point that by the third issue they were already thick as blood and Jason was already praising Roy in his monologues to himself?

>>92670060

OK? My point isn't that Jason cared for Roy, my point was that by issue two Jason was already monologuing about he liked Roy and in issue four he was already praising Roy inside his mind, which serve to illustrate there was no character development. Jason already start behaving how he kept behaving throughout the entire book by issue two.

>>92670126

It was always disappointing that he did'nt grab her butt or bang the cop right there. The set up was perfect.

>>92670191
That was her character in that comic, and she kind of was above everyone else in the group.

>>92670182

That page prove the otherwise, anon.

>>92670191

But she's an alien, anon! Aliens in DC are feared and hated. Specially hot ones!

>>92670076
>Even then her character arcs changed without any fucks given by Lobdell. What you're doing is pretty much fill the holes Lobdell left and give a cohesive narrative to it
Because his books was drailed because of the crossovers and then was off it by issue 18 which was the aftermath of DOTF which he was forced to deal with with it?

And didn't fill anything with Kori and he was the one who made things worse.

>For example, if she was so dedicated to hunting down alien slavers why did she never went after the ones that she knew lived on Earth instead of lazying around in that island?
Maybe interfered with her mission and made her forgot? Or it simply Lobdell forgot about in since he was just back in the book and later was rushed to finish it because of DCYOU.

>What happened between her and Dick, and why at first she couldn't remember him and then later could remember him fine?
She decided to forget anything and not Dick in particular so it wasn't needed to explain why she broke up with him because he wasn't the reason why she decided to forget. Also, she deliberately wanted to forget and her friendship with Jason and Roy made her stronger to face her own demons and remember things which is why she had no problem remembering Dick later.

>>92666125

Don't space your posts like this. It makes you look like an asshole.

>>92670191

She was the stoic and serious one who's detached from humanity because of being an alien, but is slowly coming to like these dumb humans that she has been following.

You know, your typical Starfire.

If the team up doesnt end with Jason calling out Dick being a shit brother then whats the point?

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>>92670232
How does Jason not caring about Kori well being traduces into "being thick as blood"?

>>92670262
>>92670229
Is called character development anon

>>92670182
Literally none of these pages prove that they are. If anything, you actually proved otherwise.

>>92670336
>And didn't fill anything with Kori and he was the one who made things worse
*and Tynion

>>92670355

Jason just figured she could take care of herself, because he was using her before to literally take out tanks.

>>92670355

These pages make me mad because they were so sweet at the time but now DC is back to lololol Dick is great lolol so Roy gets thrown under the bus.

>>92670336
>>92670398

Basically what you're saying is that Lobdell had his plans for the character derailed by cross-overs and then when he came back to the book forgot about her previous character arcs?

And again you didn't explained how before she couldn't remember Dick's name even with her sniffing his clothes like a crazy stalker and after she could remember everything, but simple didn't want to get into it.

You're trying to explain the inconsistencies, man.

>>92670436

It's not DC's fault that Dick is best boy and Roy is trailer trash that can't compete

>>92670436

Roy has been great in Titans, though. He's much more competent and confident in it. His relationship with Donna has been real sweet as well.

There's no Jason to constantly humiliate him or him constantly begging other characters for attention or following them because he needs their emotional support despite being told not to.

>>92670436
RHATO did more to throw Roy under the bus than any other comic what the fuck are you talking about? They turned him into Jason's loser best friend, Rebirth has improved his situation by bringing back his old friendships and reuniting him with Oliver and Dinah

>>92670345
> Dick is a shit brother meme

Pls stop Timfag

>>92670345
If this thread is anything to go by, Jason is the shit brother in that family

>>92670530

No that was Rise of Arsenal. But RHaTO is poor too.

>>92670566
Oh fuck I can't believe I forgot about that shit. DC really like to fuck with Roy don't they?

>>92670345

More like if it doesn't end up in gay hugging then its a waste.

>>92670209
>Jason was already praising Roy in his monologues to himself?
Yeah because if you praised someone, you are suddenly thick as blood.

And that’s anon tried to prove your point which they failed like you did.

Jason's development in RH / A was about how he was willing to give people another chance and how he trusted Roy with a more things than he did before. You said Jason treated Roy badly? I told that's how some guys act with each other and development doesn’t mean a total make over of character's personality.

>>92670591

Your mind blocked out it's terribleness. Kinda like how I did Nightwing Brothers in blood featuring tentacle Jason.

>>92670597

My point is that by issue two Jason was already talking well of Roy and Kory inside his mind despite acting tough and shit-talking Roy. This shit kept being true throughout the two books. That's not character development. That the default mode.

The same for Roy. Roy was already risking his life for Jason and Kory, and sulking any posturing and shit-talking from them.

Kory as well, she kept playing the aloof and tough chick stick despite talking about how she liked Jason and Roy inside her mind.

These three characters kept behaved that way from start to finish. That's not character development. That's the default mode of these characters that was established by issue 2.

That's my only point, that Lobdell sucks at character development. Look at Crux. He disappeared after the first arc and then showed up much later completely changed explaining to us all the shit he went through off-page and how now he wanted to be friends with the team and help them, which hey, THEY NEED HIS HELP!

>>92670476
I agreed that there's inconsistent because Lobdell was off the book for two years before he came back so he probably forgot.

And I already explained that Kori started to remember because she became stronger after she met Roy and Jason. There was even a scene in the space arc where Roy had a talk with her about how she have more confidence in herself. So, her friendship with them, meeting her crew again and visiting Gotham made her remember things.

>>92670630

>Jason was even crazier than usual, dressed up as Nighting, turned into a tentacle monster and ate people.

>>92670557

Not as shitty as Damian.

>>92670785
You are reaching extermly hard and I'm getting tired of this because you are a hopeless case. So, whatever makes you happy.

>>92670903

>And I already explained that Kori started to remember because she became stronger after she met Roy and Jason. There was even a scene in the space arc where Roy had a talk with her about how she have more confidence in herself. So, her friendship with them, meeting her crew again and visiting Gotham made her remember things.

Nah. She remembered because Lobdell dropped the memory thing subplot. Let's be honest. People complained a lot about that shit so he dropped. That's why. She just magically remembered everything because Lobdell couldn't follow the memory shit.

>>92670907

It is still hilariously dumb to this day

>>92670980

Am i wrong about Crux? I can cite more examples from his Teen Titans around.

Remember Skitter? That black girl with tentacles? Remember how her character development worked?

>>92670950
> Damian is shitty to Tim
> Jason is shitty to Dick

Who is more wrong?

>>92670557
None of them were actually his brothers until much later where DC tried to push them as brothers. They were irrelevant to him and it's not like anyone was nice to him expect Tim which Jason actually liked him.

>>92671021
Crux was a side character who only showed up twice. So no, you aren't right

>>92671063
>>92667993

>>92666215
I like Jason and I like Dick and Damian, so I guess I'm a schizo anon, or something, by your words.

>>92670986
>Nah. She remembered because Lobdell dropped the memory thing subplot
She remembered because she wasn't actually suffering from actual amnesia. She wasn't hit on the head, she just forced herself to forget which is make it easier for her to remember if she wanted to.

>>92671219

>she just forced herself to forget which is make it easier for her to remember if she wanted to.

So why couldn't she remember it here >>92667960?

>>92671203
I honestly don't understand what are you trying to say her. They are standing next to each other so this automatically means that they are brothers?

>>92671279
Dick trying to teach Jason, making an effort to help him, which disproves your point about nobody being nice to him except Tim

>>92671265
Because she wasn't ready to remember? How many times do I need to explain to you that her relationship with Jason and Roy is what helped her? Did you even read anything I wrote?

>>92671310
I was talking about how no one was nice to him after he came back and before DC pushed the robins as brothers.

Also, Dick wasn't really good to Jason which sometthing he always regretted.

>>92671370

Oh, yes, her relationship with them made her stronger which made her unblock her memories. Right.

It's not because Lobdell dropped the memory loss subplot. It's like the fact that she can't distinguish two humans apart that was also never brought up again.

>>92671476
Whatever dude. I'm done with you.

>>92671539

Please, m8, help me unlock my memories with the power of friendship. Maybe i'm remembering the book wrong.

>>92671014
>It is still hilariously dumb to this day

Truly amazing.
Also, tentacle monster aside, Crazy Jason was best Jason.

>>92671054
>> Damian is shitty to Tim
>> Jason is shitty to Dick
>Who is more wrong?

I can sort of understand Jason being shitty to Dick because he felt like he was in his shadow/had to live up to being him/was his replacement. I think Jason also felt like he had to compete with Dick in general, not just because of the sidekick stuff but also with family. Jason tends to feel like Bruce thinks of Dick as his favourite and his real son. Jason also thinks that Bruce doesn't truly love him.

Damian on the other hand feels like he's better than everyone. There is honestly no reason for him to be shitty to Tim. Damian being shitty to Tim, is because he's a brat who thinks he's better and he's shitty for the sake of being shitty. He's shitty to Tim just because he can. Damian has the status of being Bruce's biological child, being trained in expert skills since he was born and having access to a miniature empire behind him because of his mother.

So anyway Damian is more wrong.

Jason used to be shitty to Tim, but surprisingly in the Nu52 they were getting along?

>>92671580
Nah dude, you are remembering it exactly the way you want to remember it and there's no cure for your case expect letting go of your ego.

>>92671655

But with your friendship maybe i can get stronger and remember it the right way.

Also, i don't remember Kory ever stating that she was able to remember the past with the help of Jason and Roy's friendship. You're using the fact that Kory was feeling more at ease and and happy with the team to explain the memory thing when there's no correlation between these two things.

>>92671054
Well, Jason didn't try to kill Dick when they first met and Dick didn't put Jason as high on a threat list or whatever that arc in Red Robin was about in response, so Damian.

>>92671756
Not everything need to be stated my man.

Also, let's agree to disagree. We are discussing a comic book that have ended two years ago and if you aren't fan of it, good for you. I liked it and enjoyed them as a team so good for me.

>>92671205

Nah alot of people like both. Either Damian or Tim is the most hated.

>>92671461

> Also, Dick wasn't really good to Jason which sometthing he always regretted.

See its stuff like this that I want the annual to address!Also with Jason's jealousy, etc. Do you guys think it will?

>>92671633
Crazy Jason was fun, but there is a limit on what can be done with him. Rebirth Jason is easily the best.

The funny part about Damian and Jason is that they actually seem to get along well and have a typical little brother-big brother relationship.

I'm not sure how Dick and Jason can be fixed or what their status quo should be. Friendly but distant? Brotherly? I hope they pick a good direction.

>>92671054

Jason because Tim deserves to be bullied

Jason better fuck Artemis before this issue comes out.

how did dick treat jason when he was a robin

in fact what issues of batman are the jason robin issues

>>92666790
I like how the total opposite of everything you just said is what has been shown in every other book they've interacted in

>>92672284

If I remember correctly, Dick wasn't around very much. I don't think he was mean though.

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>>92672284
They had a few bonding moments.

>>92672284
They were estranged. They did get along, but they weren't close. Dick was jealous and angry at Bruce so the two never spent much time together.

>>92671063
>None of them were actually his brothers until much later where DC tried to push them as brothers.

Ehh.

Jason was the first one to be genuinely adopted and it was clear that Bruce thought of Dick as his son and Dick cared about Jason a lot.

>>92671580
>help me unlock my memories with the power of friendship.

You've been playing too much Kingdom Hearts.

>>92668317
If you're confused, it's best to remember this: nothing Lobdell writes will ever be canon

>>92672069

I've only read like, a few issues with Rebirth Jason. He seems really nice in them and kind of funny yet awkward?

Well honestly you could do a lot with a character who's insane because....well they're insane. I really enjoyed Crazy Jason; which to me was honestly all of Jason once he came back from the dead and before Nu52 started. So New Earth Jason.

Because yes he behaved like a madman to the very end of New Earth.

>The funny part about Damian and Jason is that they actually seem to get along well and have a typical little brother-big brother relationship.

They do?
Sorry I haven't been paying too much attention since Nu52 started. I remember that they did get along when they had to go undercover as different superheros. But Jason didn't seem to care much about Damian and Damian enjoyed being a little shit to Jason, going out of his way to fuck with him.

>I'm not sure how Dick and Jason can be fixed or what their status quo should be. Friendly but distant? Brotherly? I hope they pick a good direction.

Man I dunno.
When it comes to Dick and Jason I have a feeling they wont settle on just one option.

>>92672694
Lazarus Contract says otherwise

>>92672497
He cared, but he didn't treat him as brother nor Jason saw him as one since he was never around.

And to quote Bruce about Jason and Damian "They might not be brothers, but they are both my sons".

>>92672757
Psycho Jason was hilarious, but wasn't well written by any means.

Rebirth Jason is great and really loveable and his book is one of the best books.

>>92672757

Yeah rebirth Jason is pretty great. He's awkward but cute if that makes sense.

I would say Jason and Damian are similar to what you said except now they both banter with each other. Theres less tension there than Damian and Tim or how Tim and Jason were.

>>92672757
> Man I dunno.When it comes to Dick and Jason I have a feeling they wont settle on just one option.

I just don't want one side to look better than the other. It happens too much when more than 1 robin is around.

>>92672770
How so

>>92672284

Honestly now that I think about it I don't remember them being around each other often. I think there was some resentment and Jason was also being a twerp about being Robin- but they did warm up to each other.

It's confusing because in New Earth, Bruce pretty much found Jason stealing his tires, tied him up in his cave, decided to adopt him and make him into another Robin so that it would channel Jason's anger issues and he'd learn life skills or some shit.

But! Before that, Dick was the first one who said he wanted to adopt Jason and then Batman said he'd be the one to adopt him instead.

Anyway, Batman finding the kid after he tried to steal his cars tires is what went into the main canon.

Anyway Dick must've had more good moments with Jason because he was DEVASTATED when he found out Jason was dead.

What makes this really sad is that when Jason first came back from the dead, Dick was pretty harsh and mean to him. Bruce still obviously cared about Jason when he came back, but Dick was a lot harder on Jason.

>>92672985
They confirmed that the outlaws is still part of Roy's and Kori's history.

Also, they both are going to appear in RHATO as confirmed by Lobdell.

>>92673027
Bruce was probably less harsh because Jason's death had happened under his watch, he felt directly responsible. Dick meanwhile didn't have much to do with it and thus would feel more betrayed by Jason's sudden turn to the 'dark side'.

>>92673077
Fucking where, cute issue and page numbers

>>92673092
>>92673027

Not to mention I think Jason's return happened after the Tarantula/Blockbuster stuff and Dick was serious about threats. Also Jason had attacked Tim.

>>92673177
This isn't excuse about why he wanted him died.

He was never involved in his life so he has no right to feel betrayed by his actions.

>>92673259

I did'nt say it was an excuse, just explaining why he might've been more harsh

>>92673170
In the previous issue of LC, Roy made a comment that confirmed that the outlaws still happened.

Not to mention that it has always been canon since it was acknowledged in Starfire series and Lobdell confirmed it as canon with the rebirth series .

>>92673336

>Not to mention that it has always been canon since it was acknowledged in Starfire series

Only in the digital one shot and then it was never referenced again.

>>92673336
The most recent one? I've got it in front of me. Where.

>>92673360
Digital or not, the writer still acknowledge it.

>>92673372
The PREVIOUS one.

>>92673360
It doesn't need to be referred again. They confirmed that it is canon and they never stated otherwise.

>>92673413
Teen Titans #8?

>>92673462
This page presumably. http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/92456276/#92456276

>>92673413
>>92673462
Okay, I've found what you're talking about here. Roy says "Kori and I might be old friends, but I got no problemshowing these two who's--"
Why do you assume he's talking about an extremely recent (and extremely shit) run from a time period that's mostly been entirely removed from canon?

>>92673462
>>92673643
Sorry, didn't click right one: http://desuarchive.org/co/thread/92456276/92456508

>>92672976

Dick and Jason never seem to be on solid ground when it comes to who is better or worse. It sorta fluctuates.

But with the other Robins, the comparisons seem more solid.

>>92669025
this guy gets it.

>>92673177
>I think Jason's return happened after the Tarantula/Blockbuster stuff

If that's when it happened, no wonder Dick was harsh on him.

>Also Jason had attacked Tim.

I don't remember that happening immediately but yeah. If Jason also attacked Tim that quickly then I can see Dick viewing Jason as just a shell of what he used to be and to not be respected; sort like he came back wrong and was just a zombie or a vampire, an undead.

You see someone you care about is dead....then suddenly they come back and their vicious, dangerous, threatening, and clearly insane. You might not consider this person to be the one you loved anymore. You might wish they stayed dead instead of turning into that. You might abandon them or resent them.

I think that's what happened with Dick.

>>92674611
>>I think Jason's return happened after the Tarantula/Blockbuster stuff
>If that's when it happened, no wonder Dick was harsh on him.

I also forgot to mention, but this also adds to what Dick did to Jason in Battle for the Cowl.
(my memory might not be the sharpest for this so bear with me)

At one point Dick showed Jason a hologram message that was from Bruce to Jason. Dick was very stern about it, telling him that he needed to see it/insisting he see it. Bruce pretty much says that Jason needed help, psychiatric help and that he shouldn't have pushed him into the role of Robin. He then says something that heavily implies that Jason was sexually abused in the past or as a kid and then Jason freaks out and runs away; because that's what Jason always does if anyone tries to talk to him about him being sexually abused or other issues he can't handle.

>>92674611
>>92674798
That's probably the best explanation/most humanising portrayal of their relationship post-resurrection

so recommended reading for each of the Robins?

>>92675319

I'm flattered Anon.
I guess my heart was really into it.

>>92666125
>Will this finally settle things between Robin fans?

Nope.

>>92666467
This.

haven't they been doing that prety often? is this remarkable?

>a new wave of criminal activity in Gotham City with a traveling circus

Why are circuses still a thing in a place like Gotham?

>>92675604
Based on recommendations I've seen:

>Dick: The only one I'm not 100% certain on, /co/ usually recommends Grayson at least
>Jason: Red Hood & The Outlaws Rebirth, I've heard some good things about the Arkham Knight Tie-Ins
>Tim: Young Justice, Robin solo
>Damian: Grant Morrison's run, Tomasi's Batman & Robin, Robin: Son of Batman (though I've heard enough complaints that YMMV), Super-Sons

>>92674611
>>92674798

Both of these are some really good points.

>>92678354

Not a whole issue
>>92678474

Well that is a good point, but shhh

>>92666125
I'm actually excited about this

>>92681191

Me too. I like both Jason and Dick.

>>92666125

The jaydick fic explosion will be glorious

>>92681506

Gross. That's incest anon.

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Didn't the DC Encyclopedia state Jason is 6 foot tall and Dick is a manlet

>>92681708
Would Batman ever have a Robin that was taller than him?

>>92681767
Jon when Lois and Clark die

>>92681708

Yep Jason should be tall and bulky and Dick should be smaller. But artists don't like drawing manlets.

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>>92682470
>But artists don't like drawing manlets
So true
They even made Damian look tall

>>92666125
no.

>>92666125
dick doesn't look tall here, just a bit too bulky

>>92673662
Because Kori isn't part of the original titans anymore and this was an obvious reference to their time as outlaws. Also, all three of them under the same editor and their time have mentioned in RHatO too.

So whether you like it or not, DC still keep it as canon.

>>92681708
Jason is a couple inches taller than Dick, yes

>>92684823
No, Kori was never a part of the Teen Titans. She was on the New Teen Titans, which may have still happened in some form. Did you forget that Rose Wilson was on the Titans at some point? There's plenty of room for different lineups in the timeline.

>>92685443
except Jurgens' line-up

>>92685443
It was clear in the crossover that Kori doesn't have a relationship with any of the titans expect Roy and Dick. So, stop reaching my friend and give it up.

>>92685501
yeah fuck Jurgens

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>>92666125
Ha Anon you misspelled Red Hood now I won't read the thread

>>92686010
out fucking skilled

>>92685386

Or he should be, if artists would stop doing the age= height thing.