The Real Reasons for Marvel Comics’ Woes

This isn't news to anyone on this board.

>>92660368
But it's good that normie media start talking about the matter.

>>92660416
True.

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>>92660303
devastating takedown. really lays it all out, simply, clearly, with citations and evidence. should be required reading for all Marvel staff.

we all know that's not going to happen. The leadership at Marvel is dug in like a tick, and is even less flexible. removing them will be painful and result in blood loss (blood in this case meaning money). The only hope for Marvel to improve is for the Mouse Overlord to get tired of their shit and send in a corporate strike team to fix it.

>>92660303
I'm not going to read another captain obvious article, but here is the real reason for marvel woes:
bad comic book stories
they are cheap, underpaid and without effort

>>92660575
>>92660303

Ironically, Marvel has come full circle. In the late 90s the company was nearly bankrupt and was stuck in an ever-dwindling spiral, until they hired fresh-faced indie self-publisher Joe Quesada as their new Editor in chief. By attracting hot talent from across the board and radical new ideas for publishing Quesada saved the company from the brink and made it an industry powerhouse again.

Ironically, now the Quesada administration, currently managed by his underling Alonso, has become as moribund and stuck in their ways as the old Marvel administration was before them. They have made overabused quesada's ideas and made them into a dull, formulaic tradition which has robbed them of the impact they once had. They have become exactly the same thing they replaced.

It's time to fire them all.

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>>92660303
>Chelsea Cain’s canceled (and very witty) Mockingbird
>very witty

>>92660707
>Ryan North and Erica Henderson’s Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is an unalloyed delight

>>92660707
>>92660728
It's almost like /co/'s opinion of those is v. wrong.

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>>92660707
Yeah, the article makes a tons of good point but it's written by the kind of retardes that genuinely think Nick Spencer was being insensitive for mocking SJW in FalconCap ongoing.

>>92660607
>bad comic book stories
Quality has almost never had any correlation to sales.

>>92660763
Hi tumblr.

>>92660800
Hi anon! How's it going?

Honestly, even as a pirate who hasn't bought a single comic in over a decade, I'm increasingly uninterested in following even books I get for free because they have no lifespan. Creative teams and storylines shifting like sand.

Ironically, as the stories become more and more decompressed they're an even poorer fit for these rapid turnovers. It wouldn't be so jarring if each issue was a self-contained story like they used to be

>>92660678

You know the old saying: You either die as a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a monster.

>>92660607
it's worth reading the article. TL:DR their publishing practices have a lot to do with it.

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>Is there really any more harm in publishing a comic where Captain America has a romantic cup of coffee with his boyfriend Bucky than one where he’s a Nazi?

>>92660763
Eh, most of /co/ enjoyed Mockingbird except for #3 and the murderBobbi recon.

>>92661221
not really. I sure didn't

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Yep this article definitely convinced me of their argument.

The real problem that we're gonna have in the future is that comic books are niche and really just aren't that profitable and Marvel is now owned by an international mega-conglomerate who cares only about the bottom line. Completely restructuring the publisher form the bottom up and forcing out the old cancer that's been there too long may prove to be much more difficult than just shutting them down when looking at exactly how little profit comics bring in.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Marvel reduced to a skeleton staff releasing half a dozen low effort entirely meaningless comics a month just to advertise for the next movies or series or cash in on recognizable cover heroes.

>>92660678
Early 2000s Marvel was fantastic. Every title had it's own, different identity and tone. It was almost as good as the pre-vertigo period Karen Berger's DC titles, only on a wider scale.

>>92661214

>that image

....What the fuck is that?

>In 2013, for example, the writer Al Ewing began working on Mighty Avengers, focusing on a team of community-oriented superheroes led by Luke Cage and Jessica Jones. Fourteen issues later, Marvel relaunched it with a new #1 as Captain America and the Mighty Avengers, then canceled it nine issues in. In 2015, Ewing began writing both New Avengers and Ultimates, which followed characters from Mighty Avengers. Marvel relaunched both a year later—again with new #1s—as Ultimates 2 and USAvengers. Sound complicated? It gets worse: The 2013 Mighty Avengers was the third series to use the title; the 2015 Ultimates was the seventh. Both are unrelated to previous series. Such a publishing scheme is convoluted even for a committed fan; for a new reader, it’s nearly impenetrable.

How can a single Marvel employee read this paragraph and then look at themselves in the mirror with a straight face?

>>92661261
The sooner people realize Marvel and DC are worthless and move on, the better. Unfortunately, right now we need them to exist, they are the entry point to the medium whether we like it or not.

I dream of a future where they are not needed.

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>>92661214
>We want comics where Captain America fucks teenage boys

>>92660303
I remember back in I wanna say 2010 they had Johnny Storm of F4 get killed off in a heroic fashion. It boost the sales for F4 temporary, and I read after it that Marvel had planned to schedule a character be killed off every 3-4 months or something. Always someone big enough or recognized enough that it would guarantee boost sales (like Wolverine, Deadpool, or Spiderman).
And pretty much every character had come back in an asspull way about 2 or so years later.


That reminds me, is Bruce Banner still dead?

>>92660303
>Willow Wilson’s excellent Ms. Marvel, a series starring a young Muslim heroine from Jersey City, debuted at a circulation of roughly 50,000 before holding steady at 32,000; the relaunched version a year later began at around 79,000 before dropping sharply to a current circulation of around 20,000. “Marvel’s constant relaunching ... has been harmful to direct market sales overall,” Spacetwinks writes, “as well as harmful to building new, long-term readers.” With every relaunch, it becomes easier to jump off a title.

Marvel's relaunch strategy made sense when they assumed there was an audience of movie fans just waiting for a jumping on point. They made their bet, lost it, and now they need to live with the consequences.

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Who gives a shit

Marvel makes $750,000,000 a year

They're never dying no Matter how shit they become

>>92661433
He might be back with Legacy, but at this very moment he is still feeding the worms yeah

>>92661445
>Why does a board about comics gives a shut that a company is making terrible comics for shitty gimmick reasons

>>92660707
Besides issues 3 and 8 it was pretty good. It was like those two issues were written by someone else.

>>92661480

Because he's a /tv/ poster

>>92661445
Marvel Entertainment or Marvel Studios?
Don't confuse the two, they are very separate entities

>>92661261
>Marvel reduced to a skeleton staff releasing half a dozen comics a month
that's better than what we have now. imagine 4-5 writers who actually give a damn about the characters, some decent artists, no crossovers, no events, no bullshit.

>>92661445
someone's a troll and also very stupid.
Marvel Studios and Marvel comics are different companies. the movies are doing great. The comics, not so much.

>>92661483
Reminder that Mockinbird cheated on her husband with an insane man, caused the death of said insane man and let anyone think she was raped by him, and the book treated this as a funny thing.

>>92661433
>That reminds me, is Bruce Banner still dead?
yes, but he will be appearing again soon because of time travel.

>>92661214
>Is there really any more harm in publishing a comic where Captain America has a romantic cup of coffee with his boyfriend Bucky than one where he’s a Nazi?
Yes, because Bucky is an anti-draw

>>92661338
War Machine 2.0 MAX by Chuck 'The Fuck' Austen

>>92661261
keeping marvel comics running is good for now because it's a place for the mouse to market test and refine ideas to use in the movies. The problem with articles like the OP, is that while they've correctly identified the problem they haven't bothered to explore the root cause beyond "it bumps sales, that must be it." The true answer here is that Disney is ordering to Marvel Comics to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. E.g: "RDJ is gonna retire in the coming few years, test some iron man replacements and see how people react." Hence we get black girl iron man, evil iron man, pepper iron man, etc. You can apply this to all of their movie characters and see the pattern emerging. New hulk? Yep. New Thor? Yep. New Hawkeye? Yep. New Cap? We've got a couple for you to pick from!

Disney is not concerned overly much with the specific stories aside from the broad strokes and the characters involved. Do you think Disney is gonna adapt some stupid femthor storyline? Of course not, they're gonna hire an actual writer to write a new one for them however they're going to take the characters and maybe the name of an arc and use that to make it seem like they're not making things up whole cloth.

>>92661666
Its "artist" is never heard of again Satan

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no there main problem is no one likes there caricatures or authors.
some blame to publisher, but they cancel books that don't sell.
they should fire authors that cant archetype.

>>92661762
What.

>>92661762
>>92661768
I think he means, if you can't reach glossy, beautiful house-style, don't draw. No one wants indie/quirky/ugly squirrel girl and friends shit.

Ms. Marvel, a series starring a young Muslim heroine from Jersey City, debuted at a circulation of roughly 50,000 before holding steady at 32,000; the relaunched version a year later began at around 79,000 before dropping sharply to a current circulation of around 20,000.
HOLD THE FUCK ON!

This is the "incredibly successful" Ms. Marvel? Because these numbers aren't impressive at all.

>>92661570
Yeah. I know. That retcon happened in #8.

>>92661689
That's fine in thought, but what really happens is that the idea of the comic gets condensed into a one sentence blurb, and then the Hollywood writing committee comes in and goes, "step aside comic nerds, let the REAL writers take over!" and then we get shit movies 5hat only vaguely resemble the comics, or only in a superficial way.

>>92661689
>The problem with articles like the OP, is that while they've correctly identified the problem they haven't bothered to explore the root cause

The article is reporting the facts on why Marvel is where it is. You're engaging in speculation. Speculation is fine too but that would be a different article.

>>92661702
The 'artist' is a program called Poser. Ol' Chuck is working on some cartoon network shit now, I don't know it's a punishment enough....

>>92661855
Anon, she was a brand new diversity character, Marlel didn't expect that book to last 12 issues.

>>92661855
Impressive compared to most Marvel books I guess. On the other hand they gotta further the agenda.

>>92661855
Despite marvel pussy footing around with the actual numbers, I do believe that she sells well digitally, which has a higher margin because it's just bandwidth, not printed paper.

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>no mention of Nova
I will die on this hill if I have to

>>92661855
Anon she sells best in trade form

And for a new character 32k is very, very, very good.

>>92661053
As someone who is not a pirate, I have the same issue. I've stopped caring about Marvel for this reason, and have been focusing on independent comics.

>>92661940
>>92661956
It is strange because Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz numbers are better than that and no one raves about how success they are.
>>92661977
"Ms. Marvel" is never in the top 10 of Comixology.

>>92661405
DC and Marvel have their place, but the two of them make up 65%+ of weekly sales on average. People need to prop up the smaller companies, and give creator owned books a chance.

>>92661835
>No one wants indie/quirky/ugly squirrel girl and friends shit
Not true, and frankly it's bad business not to have some books like this. Keyword: some.

>>92660792
In this case, the poor quality of stories that cater to the wrong readers are what's causing all their books to lose sales so abruptly, leading to more frequent relaunches.

>>92662067
Not anymore, but her books and treatment have been shit for a while.

>>92662067
Yeah they're riding the Green Lantern juice my man.

>>92662067
For one thing, Ms Marvel is a worthless moniker nobody cares about.

Green Lantern used to be the best selling comic when under Johns.

Colin Spacetwinks is the best name I ever heard.

>>92661214

Bucky kills books. It's been proven over and over again.

The only "fanbase" Bucky has is... whatever the Western equivalent of a fujoshit is who all want him and Rogers to just endlessly fuck. Specifically the MCU versions because those people don't read comics.

>only passingly mentions the direct market and it being a decades-old thing

bleh

The direct market is *literally* the cause of all this. It's the entire reason Marvel, et al, can get away their terrible sales practices: all they have to do is convince comic shops to buy their crap, and then they're in the clear.

If you want to unfuck the comic industry, get rid of this crutch. Otherwise, there should be no shame in not supporting any of these companies: it's on them to get with the times and learn to meet the demands of their customers. Every other industry has had to do it -- movies, TV, music, video games, food, shopping -- so why are comics allowed to stick to the past?

>>92661977
>I do believe that she sells well digitally
Marvel never releases digital sales numbers. I'm not sure why the defense force continues to use this point.

>>92662291
>passing
Th...The entire middle half is about the direct market, dude.

>>92662293
Nobody does, it would embarrass the comic shops. Digital is so much bigger than they are now.

>>92660792
The thing is, marvel didn't have quality in a long time
>inb4 King's vision
it was only okay

That and the fact that they have so few decent writers barely anything looks worth reading.

>>92661855

The second run tanked because of the editorially-mandated CW2 tie-in arc, which turned a bunch of people off. If not for that, the current run would probably be sitting at about the same place as the first go.

>>92662293
It's not even defense force, man. I don't even read Kamala, I'm just not some conspiracy theorist. The book sells and has fans. Or at least, it used to.

Said it before, bring back Jim Shooter and start cracking some skulls and put people in Marvel ed in check.

>>92662358
It's not "about" the direct market. The article is oriented more about Marvel not performing well/acceptably within the purview of the direct market, in comparison to DC/Image who behave well within the direct market.

Rather than blaming Marvel for being too profit-oriented even as they head toward a bust, the entire focus of the blame should be Diamond and the direct market.

>>92662526
Yes, please.

>>92662526

Shooter did a lot of good but he also chased the majority of the best talent of the Bronze Age away from the company by being a complete asshole. His continuity hard on, numbers first attitude, and penchant for shuffling the creative talent are still practiced at Marvel and they're still shit.

Marvel needs a Roy Thomas. Someone who enjoys comics and is hands off. Let the writers write and let the artists draw and let the individual books find their way as long as they meet the deadlines. Make a good 22 page comic before worrying about how to cram it into a UNIVERSE CHANGING EVENT.

>>92663249
>this pasta again

>>92660607
>Marvel still trying to blame the readers
Gabriel, please...

>>92662526
Shooter almost killed Marvel at the time with his bullshits. Just like Jemas or Quesada, he had a good start but by the end of his run, he was just another nutcase.

>>92663392
Howe pls

>>92660303
Not one of these sites call out the shitty writers and Bendis. Really activates my almonds.

>>92663463
Bendis?

>>92660303
>https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/05/the-real-reasons-for-marvel-comics-woes/527127/


https://pastebin.com/y0Gx3XiE
Giving views to the atlantic, I can't believe they're doing pieces on comics but then again their agenda is clear and anon shame on you for not pastebinning.


https://pastebin.com/y0Gx3XiE

>>92661689
>keeping marvel comics running is good for now because it's a place for the mouse to market test and refine ideas to use in the movies.
Except that's false. The only thing the movies have in relation to the comics like Age of Ultron or Civil War is the titles. Otherwise they're completely unlike the comics. If anything Marvel is trying their hardest to ape the movies. And if reports are to believed, the movie side doesn't even talk about the comic side and actively tries to shit on them to their superiors at Disney because of the way they've been treated in the past before they broke off. Additionally, it's pretty easy to see that the segment that actually reads the comics has a completely different outlook for what they want in their product as opposed to the broader segment that just watches the movies and doesn't buy the comics.

>>92663476
>pastebinning
>autism

>>92663506

>Allowing corporate interns to get clicks on your behalf like a shill retard.

Fuck you.

>>92661689
That's assuming they won't just start recasting them at some point, which is a pretty viable alternative too.

>>92661438
Spacetwinks?

>>92663463
Bendis doesn't write bad comics in the eyes of the casuals. The stories are short like they like it and Bendis speak only gets bad when you've consumed every Bendis media the Bendis has put out (like all of /co/ does). There's also the fact his continuity problems are only a problem for those who care about continuity, something casuals can't give less of a shit about.

>>92661855
That's pretty fucking good for a brand new character (and it's not like the Ms Marvel name was a big seller before that).

During the first year there were reports her book sold phenomenally well digitally, like as well as it did in floppies. But I don't think that's true anymore.

>>92663525
>le evul clicks

Is this still a meme? Jesus, /v/ really needs new material.

>>92661500
>>92661537
>DEY'S SEPERIT COMPANIES GAIZ
>DISNEY AIN'T THEIR BENEFACTOR OR NUTHIN
Okay faggot

>>92660303
God damn it, Ewing. You dirty SJWhore.

>>92663750

>Said the sweating shill

>>92660678

Its just how things go.

You always become the next out-of-touch establishment, no matter how cool you used to be.

>>92663789
Haha! It's like I'm really in 2014.

>>92663855

If you didn't care you wouldn't be whining. I'm eating clicks as we speak.

>>92663864
You're eating dicks as we speak? Are they tasty?

>>92663682
It sounds like digital as a whole is fairly stagnant, and I think relaunches and tie ins hurt Kamala more than helped

>>92661666
It looks like Poser shit, Satan

>>92664170
It's not a coincidence, I'll tell you that.

>>92660303

Or maybe the problem is that you replaced all the characters that people actually liked with gay black tranny SJWs written as self-inserts by your new gay black tranny SJW staff.

>>92664275

the article literally makes the liberal talking points that it doesn't have enough diversity and is a pro-stucky article

>>92664275
>DC has the same garbage writing
>everybody's white there though
>had to cut down 1/3 of their entire line
>sales are also not very good

I mean the gay black tranny SJWs thing has to be a factor, but it can't be THE problem.

>>92662280
But BuckyCap was one of the top-selling books at the time

>>92664508
It's in top 5 at least.

>>92663593
>Brian "King of Decompression" Bendis
>stories are short

>>92663758
They're both under Disney but they're not connected otherwise

Unless you think Disney Animation and Marvel Comics are the same because they're both under Disney

>>92660763
weak bait

>>92660303
Isn't that the repeat of an article some guy published in like 3 days after whole finger pointing thing Marvel did?

>>92662076
Yeah too bad for "le shit indie comic books" mentality

Not to mention that crazy tumblrinas ARE the market right now. Marvel's fault is that they're too out of touch to tap into the market, but it doesn't mean that isn't the market.

>>92664127
Good. The sooner they fire the current crop of idiots.

>>92661221
That's historical revisionism if I ever saw it.

>>92664614
Because it was a BrubaCap book.

Bucky has been poison sales since then.

>>92664969
You know it isn't. The same is true for America. The storytimes have the highest rating possible.

>>92663750
>>92663476
People give you shit for linking to CBR or comicsalliance so unless your uncle works at atlantic, I don't see why you should be so mad about some guy pastebinning their article.

>>92665109
I was just pointing out dick-munching anon's tired old memes. For god's sake he even called me a shill, it's 2017, he should've called me a cuck.

>>92665244
>meme
Is a tradition at this point.

>>92665002
BruCap was actually pretty mediocre saleswise until Bucky took over as Cap

>>92665244
Shills are real, anon

Nah.

The article makes a good point of the issue with Marvel's sales department but glosses over the actual bullshit with diversity.

>>92665244

>Tired old memes

>Cries that I am killing clicks the link is getting

>>92665874
Diversity has nothing to do with declining sales. One of DC's more successful books is about Middle Eastern and Latina legacy character duo.

>>92663473
The hack?

Replace Brevoort with someone like Simon Furman and things might get better.

>>92665957
>Diversity has nothing to do with declining sales. One of DC's more successful books is about Middle Eastern and Latina


kek no.

They are both americans. That's no diversity and diversity isnt the shade of brown you use.

>>92666484
>They are both americans.
And? Aren't diverse Marvel characters Americans, too?

>>92667611

They arent diverse either, that's the point.

>>92667648
>A latina depressive American and a Muslim Gitmo escapee American are not considered diverse

Not gonna lie, I would totally live in a world where that's not considered diverse

>>92665957
That's odd, I haven't noticed GLs in the top 10 monthly lists. Sure you're not saying that because you waifu latina lantern?

Then again I have to been paying attention to the monthly top 10 lists as much as others do

>>92667707
They are not diverse and you can thank Johns "i know shit about islam and i really can't mind actually investigating shit" for that. Just like America isnt diverse, tokenism isnt diversity.

If a character listens to beyonce and eats in burger king it means there's no diversity in his character. Especially when its from a big city.

>>92667784
It sells ~35k by the 20th issue. How many books can do that nowadays?

>>92667918
So you are admiting you are just a fanboy?

It's a decent comic, don't pretend it has anything to do with the main characters.

>>92667977
Did you reply to the wrong comment, mate?

I just said it does better than various other books (Captain America, Iron, Avengers) and it does.

>>92660303
>The writer of Secret Empire, Nick Spencer, has managed to become a swirl of social media sturm all by himself, partially for his fascist Captain America storyline and partially for his tone-deaf handling of race and general unwillingness to deal with criticism.
>sturm
Heh

>>92667869
You're being obtuse for the sake of making a fake point. Jessica and Simon's heritages are brought up numerous times, and play a part in their character. Jessica's fucking ring speaks in spanish to her.

>>92668311

Nah, I'm just not stupid enought to believe those characters are "diverse" when they are just plain americans and nothing more. Nightrunner? Sure, that's diversity, B'wana Beast? diversity, Ice is diversity, Red Rocket it's diversity.

A ring saying Ay! Papi! burrito chimichanga isnt diversity.

>>92662526
I can't trust anyone who bitches about Romita Sr's work on ASM.
I mean come the fuck on.

>>92665687
Tbqh, I consider myself a Bucky fan, but he's been shit since Brubaker left Marlel.

I think the majority of older Bucky fans tapped out when Bru left. Hell, even when Bucky quit being Cap, Bru did crap with Steve.

>>92660778
So even that idiots are capable to find the reasons why Marvel is failing.

>Bendis, Aaron, Waid and Hopeless are shitty writers

>>92667869
Spoken like a white dude who had no idea what Lebanese American culture is like

>>92663497
And if rumors are to believed, Fiege shows any bad press of Marvel Comics/entertainment to Disney.

Which isn't surprising since Feige HATED Ike Pearlmutter and the comics division and got Disney to kick them out after AoU. He ad everyone else at Marvel Studios do not want Ike and his crew back at any cost.

bump for more shitflinging

>>92663497
>And if reports are to believed, the movie side doesn't even talk about the comic side and actively tries to shit on them to their superiors at Disney because of the way they've been treated in the past before they broke off.

This may be true.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/05/18/kevin-feige-practically-confirms-avengersx-men-movie-crossover-basically-okay-not-really/

Look at the stuff Feige said in an interview:

>Feige did almost take a side in something when asked if he preferred movies or comics. “Movies. Movies movies movies by far. I would only occasionally go to the comic shop on Wednesdays, but I would go to the movies every friday,” he said. However, promoting a theme of neutrality as he got into the details, he described himself as “the only person on earth who legitimately loved Star Wars and Star Trek equally.”

>“The very first Marvel logo that was in front of a film was on the first Spider-Man film,” Feige said of the iconic flip logo. Feige said they would make small tweaks to the flip logo as the Marvel Cinematic Universe went on, but he thought “we really needed to differentiate a film that’s based on a Marvel comic vs. a film that’s made by Marvel Studios.” As a result, Feige wanted a logo that “celebrates all the films that came before” and make clear that the movie could only be from Marvel Studios, and the new flip logo highlighting Marvel movie characters rather than comics was born.

It sounds almost like he's throwing shade at Ike and the Creative Committee.

>>92671011
Watch out! You're giving away clicks to bleedingcool.com, autism may be coming your way!

>>92663789
Jesus faggot, do you really think the average business gives two shits about this place?

You're about as deluded as the posters who scream shill on the "pirate everything but Witcher" board.

>>92672238

said the guy still crying about it 5 hours later.

>Our progressive agitprop could sell if Marvel didn't keep relaunching all the time!

>>92667869
At least they're not whining about "cultural appropriation" this time, I mean, motherfucker, cultural appropriation is literally the definition of America. You're eating German and Polish foods for lunch, eat out at a place that serves Chinese, watch movies made by Jews, snack on Mexican donuts, drive cars made by Japan, and search the internet on a website invented by a Jew and a Russian. It's America's fucking strength, and any idiot who thinks that we should resegregate deserves the scorn heaped on them.

>>92668464
Is it as bad as the way America has treated its Spanish? 'Cause I'm happy to see more hispanic superheroes, but they need to learn how to actually speak my language instead of mangling the fuck out of it.

>>92672521
But black people was pharaohs and shiet while whitey dwelled in da caves

>>92660707
His autocorrect fixed "shitty"
Happens sometimes.

>>92672281
That guy is a shill, isn't he?

>>92660303

> Ryan North and Erica Henderson’s Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is an unalloyed delight;

and just like, all credibility of the writer falls off

>>92660303
>> Marvel needs to be more like Image!

So only have three titles that sell while the rest are left to fend for themselves, banking off the talent that came from the big two.

Nevermind the stealth cancels and long ass waits.

Just another article getting mad about all the shit that Marvel was being praised for not actually paying off.

>>92660707
Also included

KSD shilling
Muh perfect Image model
Give Cap a boyfriend
Cap is a Nazi
Moon Girl praising despite obviously not selling well at all.

How is this any different than a tumblr post?

>>92660575

I suspect Disney is behind the removal of the F4 and attempted removal of the Xmen. Marvel comics actually loses out while the movie side would benefit from the exclusions.

>>92660792
This. In fact some times it's inversely perportionate

>>92673921
It's 100% Ike. I don't believe Disney cares all that much.

>>92664275
>Being this homophobic, racist, and sexist
Go back to /pol/. You're not welcomed here.

>>92673960

Sure he is. If you can be here, so can he.

>>92662105
>>92662125

Yet Green Lanterns and Hal Jordan and the GL sales are almost identical

>>92662374
You can't prove it

>>92663593
>and Bendis speak only gets bad when you've consumed every Bendis media the Bendis has put out
What a retarded argument

>>92664508

Not DC's fault Marvel is driving customers away from comic book shops lmao

>>92665004
Those storytimes are enjoying it for how bad it is and you know it.

It's like saying a shitty B-movie is the best film ever made because its episode of MST3K got the highest ratings.

>>92675149
You can't prove the opposite, hence I'm right.

>>92660303
I'm late in the conversation but is the author trying to make the point that numbering is the problem? Really? Not bad writing? Not replacing beloved characters with movie/TV versions? Not inexplicable swapping genders/races instead of just writing some awesome new minority characters? Get reall.

>>92675383
>I don't enjoy it
>I just read the storytimes
>and have downloaded the cbr
>and I obsess about every panel
>and the backmatter
>and I stalk the creative team on twitter
>and I start controversy threads often
>but I don't enjoy it

Enjoying something for "how bad it is" is the same as enjoying it, if not worse.

>>92675288
It may not be DC's fault, but it's also DC's problem at the end of the day.

>>92676549
Should have bought them out in the 90s.

>>92663758
Disney usually lets companies that make them money, continue to make money with little to no input. You start losing money and then they shove their dick in you, completely dry.

>>92662421
Also turning small time hero into an Avenger didn't help

>>92660678
>In the late 90s the company was nearly bankrupt and was stuck in an ever-dwindling spiral, until they hired fresh-faced indie self-publisher Joe Quesada as their new Editor in chief.

It only left bankruptcy through the movie deals they're trying to get out from under, cash payments from Fox and Sony. It wasn't Marvel Knights, it wasn't anything else. It was selling their firstborn to strangers to survive.

>>92662526
>bring back Jim Shooter
JIM I WAS FUCKING WRONG I'M SORRY PLEASE COME BACK

>>92676745
DC didn't have the cash to buy Marvel out in the 90s. Believe it or not, Time-Warner wasn't going to waltz in and write a check.

I'm just glad that a mainstream rag is drawing attention to the flies circling Marvel. It's time they got their shit together but if they insist on being "right," they are going to be purged hard by Disney. It is the height of hubris to believe that this can't happen. If DC was in a death spiral you can fucking bet that TW would march in and set up a firing squad before instituting a new junta.

>>92676046
That's not enjoying the material, that's enjoying the controversy. Big difference