Who was in the wrong here?

>>92644281
The guy who went to the moon to kill the guy who keeps saving everyone and then cried like a little bitch when his superpowers didn't work.

VS The Elite was not exactly a nuanced movie.

I forgot about this comic and movie.

What did Superman do again? Didn't he fake his death but then laser eye the villains brains so they lost their powers?

>Strong guys should just kill whoever they think is a bad guy
>Why are you killing us because you think we are bad guys?!?!
Hrm...

>>92644281
The artist because this looks like shit

Why didn't Clark just rape him?

>>92644326
No, he pretended to kill them and then suppressed the guy's powers temporarily. He acted the way they acted to make a point.

>>92644326
No, they tried to kill him, he 'snapped' and beat the shit out of them while faking THEIR death and then he used a laser concussion to pretend to take away Manchester's powers. In the comics that was it, in the movie he depowered everyone.

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>>92644326
How many times am I gonna have to post this shit

>>92644410
>Goddamn it gordon. You cant just rape your problems away.

>>92644459
>in the movie he depowered everyone.
lol, adaptations.

>>92644528
THANKS MATE!

>>92644281
The elite was wrong due to the simple fact that nobody should be functioning as police, judge or executioner at the same time.

>>92644410
He basically did rape him.

>>92644281
The Elite

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>>92644281
What was Supes response to that anyhow?
Because it's not like that isn't a fact. America kills non-combatants all the time, and no one blinks an eye.

>>92644281

I always preferred Kingdom Come's moral quandaries to The Elite.

"The world changed... but you wouldn't. So they chose me. They chose the man who would kill over the man who wouldn't... and now they're dead."

>>92644810
Most rational people don't pretend it's heroism then.

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>>92644810
1) America isn't "his" government
2) Superman typically stays away from political things and leaves it up to the people of the governments involved to decide for themselves.

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>>92644281
Superman was in the right.

You all can pretend that killing is the better option but when the bad guys know it's a all in or nothing game they will bring their A game and do WHATEVER they can to win.

With superman the pecking order some unspoken rules were in place respect was given and some villains leashed the worst so that some control was established, when that order is gone chaos is the only thing left to fill in the power vacuum when heroes and villains die and the body count is uncountable.

I promise if I had some power I sure as fuck would make sure that I had some insurance to make it out alive and if not I will go down taking so many innocents.

>>92644528
Thread begets story and story begets thread. The battle may never end, but know that your efforts are always appreciated.

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>>92644638
>that 90's tier camera-motorcycle thing Clark is holding
jeez supes just go ahead and use pic related but for reporters.

>>92644896
Clearly you aren't American
>>92644919
Too bad the people stay away from politics as much as Supes does if it doesn't immediately concern them.

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One of the characteristics of modern Superman is that he avoids interfering in political or governmental affairs.

Which is strange since he was conceived as someone who could go past political and class barriers in order to right wrongs.

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I understand why Superman has since evolved the way he did but I wouldn't mind seeing some approach to him being a little more involved in the world without it becoming Injustice horsehockey.

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Just gonna say if Supes killed Darksied nothing bad would come from it. Prove me wrong.

>>92644830
Holy Shit, the bug lady is pretty hot here too.

>>92644281
I really doubt there are many who hold their governament in high esteem.
Except in bhutan maybe.

>>92645058
New Gods die and come back all the time. killing him probably wouldn't do much except plunge Apokolips into civil war until Uxas gets tired of being dead

>>92645080
It's more like little dragons than bugs.

>>92645103
Granny Goodness could take over and bring world peace.

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>>92645058
Batman did kill Darkseid, he got better.

>>92644637
>Dredd

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>>92645142
Dredd is a satire of that very concept though

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If there were a really good, ~48 page Authority story that served as a counterpoint to this, I'd post it along with this.

Does anyone know of such a story? Or anything comparable?

>>92645053
Eh, going down the road into political stories will always end up just being the author's commentary on current events. Kind of like with that "Superman renounces his US citizenship" story a while back.

>>92644685
Why is he washing his face with honey?

>>92644670
>downloaded into every PC in the world
I'd be pretty assblasted if this happened in real life honestly

>>92645058
Doesn't Darksied's motherbox thing parasitically convert the next fag that picks it up into Darkseid?

>>92644528
> wahhhh The Authority is selling more than my comic

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>>92645208
That's the exact story I think of whenever someone says superheroes should take a more active role in the world stage.

>>92644281
Superman, thing is American soldiers are not heroes and haven't been heroes since the war of the Pacific. America has always been a chouvinist and militaristic state. The elite are not heroic at all, but they take more responsibility than superman, you can't shake the hands of a president if his hands are covered in blood, and that's the rule for all American presidents.


It's funny how dumb murrikans think Americans values exist when those are not more than pretty word the elite use to get support from the poor and convince them to die for their economic interests.

>>92644919
>>92644867
>>92644851

Honestly, I kinda like the interactions between the Elite and Supes more in the movie.

>>92645228
Damn I forgot about the Motherbox

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>>92645227
It's like how back in the day people would include their own shitty ascii or html manifestos in their torrents espousing whatever their personal communist or socialist philosophy was, except you don't get thriller.mp3.exe along with it.

I hated the way the movie ruined the ending. it literally made Manchester 100% right about Superman being a sanctimonious prick who thinks hes better than everyone.

because in the comic he just temporarily disables everyone and temporarily cuts out Black's powers.

in the movie he outright has "the authorities" or whatever remove everyone's powers and he actually permanently removes black's powers.

Manchester Black is such a blatant strawman

>>92644281
Soo what if they didn't call themselves heroes, but owned up to the fact that they were killers without any romanticization?

>>92645510
Made for a great story anyway

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>>92645513
Then Superman would just stop them normally and throw them in jail.

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Their faces work so well as "LISTEN HERE YA LITTLE SHIT".

>>92645309
>xD dumb Americans
>as I read an American comic about an American character on an American-made website probably on an American-designed computer

>>92645510
Nah, he's literally just a 90's punisher type super hero.

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End

>>92645487
That whole shit was retarded.
Why superman is not doing eye surgery for an good money income?

>>92644281

The one practicing vigilantism outside of the law or region authority

>>92644528
We appreciate your work anon, at least this way we can discuss after reading the comic again

>>92644281
Kelly. This entire story is just the equivalent of an "I AM SILLY" response to The Authority.

In the comic, Superman, hands down.

In the movie, Manchester, no doubt. Superman even proves him right at the end when takes away their powers instead of just imprisoning them or whatever. Supes outright decided someone else's life and judged that they were "not worthy of anything" before imprisoning them and making them look like fools because the people were respecting them more than him.

>>92645592
because he doesn't really care about being rich? if he did brain surgery he'd probably do it for free for people who can't afford it themselves.

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>>92645592
Superman firmly believes in not making any monetary gain off his powers, because it would give him an unfair advantage over humans who work their whole lives to develop a skill.

>>92645561
Specifically the Authority, the Elite are literally expies of the Authority.

>>92645627
I'm always happy to post this one because it's short and quick, so lots of people always read it.

>>92645169
That's true. The only difference is Dredd dutifully followed the law as opposed to The Elite dishing out punishment at their chosing.

>>92644528
Comic is better than the cartoon. Cartoon ending still makes Superman seem kind of shitty in the end.

>>92644281
OP because that isn't ar argument, purple hair dude is simply questioning the statement but not refuting it; what they both say is true, the american government does it all the time but that doesn't mean what Clark says is false.

>>92645053
I saw a light and...
I forgot the rest.

>>92644528
This the second time you post this in the last 7 days, who keeps making these threads?

>>92645538
>because I am a leader myself
Supes bringing the Banter

>>92645781
I really like a lot of the classic DC "anti-edgy" stories. Stuff like the resolution to Batman: Knightfall, This comic and even the meta commentary that was within Infinite Crisis are a great refreshment from the dark, edgy comics of the 90s

>>92645004
But I am.

>>92644281
Is this the same guy who cut off Lois's legs?

>>92645394
>Black guy has electrical powers
every time

>>92645968
The dark edgy comics of the 90s were themselves a refreshing change from the tired old superhero clichés. Without them to react against there would have been nothing new.

Kinda makes me wonder what's going to be the refreshing change from "diversity" comics, white supremacy comics?

>>92645058

Last time Darkseid died we had Final crisis.

>>92646115
>nothing new
I don't know if professional fans holding up characters they grew up reading can be called "new."

All the reactionary comics and the stuff from the 2000's by people like Waid and Johns are the point I lost interest in capes. Spawn may be terribly written, but it's still better than something like Green Lantern:Rebirth

>>92645824
>boo hoo the mass murderers get their tools for killing taken away

I guess citizens shouldn't disarm a criminal if given the chance right?

>>92644919
>America isn't "his" government
>comic literally ends with Supes catchphrase about "truth, justice, and the american way"

The American Way involves killing. Lots and lots and lots of killing. You can say it is for the greater good--and I'm not gonna argue about the Spanish American War and Manifest Destiny on fucking /co/--but you can't deny that, objectively speaking, the American Way involves body bags and goddamn huge bombs.

I really wish JLElite would make a comeback.

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>>92646604
As it should be

We will civilize you with steel and blood

>>92645453
The delivery for the "Pop" part of this was really good in the movie.

https://youtu.be/yWyj9ORkj8w?t=1m51s

>>92645710
I think you mean that the other way around. OP asked who was in the WRONG, not right

but I agreee with you. its such a small change but it makes all the difference

>>92645058
Supes position was never "Don't kill anyone ever." He'll do it if there's literally no other option. He'd fucking merc Darkseid if the opportunity came.

>>92644281
Superman, but the Elite went overboard with it so Superman became right.

>>92646753
Ah fuck, you're right, i switched em up.

>>92646735
Considering it's the voice of Sephiroth, George Newburn can really do insidious well

>>92646604
Violence is the natural course for every major governing body on a planet, don't get prissy because America does it best.

>>92646415
Ok so why doesn't Superman depower all of his villains?

>>92645388
Why's that a problem? Black was a mass murderer.

>>92646415
Lobotomy's a bit far, isn't it?

>>92647470
He just lost control of his powers, he was not rendered into a vegetable
No different than destroying a evil scientist's robots

>>92644281
the government is a social system, where no one person is solely responsible

One psychopath directly causing deaths and preaching like an idiot is not comparable

>>92646004
As am I.

>>92647147
Nice projection, champ, but I made no statement about the rightness of any behaviors. This isn't the place for philosophy or political economy.

I am simply pointing out that Manchester is correct. Supes is hypocritical to one moment announce his belief in the "American Way" and the next be weeping over the slaying of a giant monkey. If he wants to be such a pacifist he can immigrate to Switzerland and be geopolitically neutral like the Swiss banks (now that I think about it, I don't know why some hero hasn't done that).

>>92647515
>No different than destroying a evil scientist's robots
I mean it kind of is, if you're going into people's brains and changing them. It's a bit Red-Son-Lite.

>>92647159
He often did when he knew how to do it (and he found out how to depower the Elite without killing them). Most of the time it's impossible. Also
>phantom zone

>>92647661
Red Son did what he did by almost blindly following an idea. Here Supes took the better alternative (harmless operation), when the other possibility was leaving a mass murderer his murder weapon.

We are talking aboit mind bullets, not a knife or an arm. Of course depowering was the humane and right thing to do.

>>92645560
Great counter argument.

>Villain breaks out
>Kills multiple people robbing banks
>Hero punch him and sends him to jail
>Villain breaks out
>Kills multiple people robbing banks
>Hero punch him and sends him to jail
>Villain breaks out
>Some Asshole:"Alright I'm gonna do something about this"
>Hero comes in at 7896mps and breaks the guy
>Hero:"Don't do that or you're worst than Hitler!"

Every single time

>>92645781
Bullshit, Clark literally uses his powers for his job all the time, he is decent at his job without them but he is not up to the standards of Perry and he isn't equal to Lois.

Clark was thought to not use his powers in a way that would drag attention to him, like playing sports.

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>>92647605
But Manchester wasn't right, when noncombatantants are killed it's viewed as collateral damage and only fanatics celebrate the loss of innocent life. And the "Amerocan way" when espoused by supes has always been lethal force as the last resort.

>>92645592
Because he's Superman? He has a stable job already.

>>92644281
>>>92647605
>But Manchester wasn't right, when noncombatantants are killed it's viewed as collateral damage


Kek, sorry but you seriously don't know show about global conflicts.

>>92648175
>when noncombatantants are killed it's viewed as collateral damage
No it's viewed as "acceptable losses"

>>92644810
Not wanting exploding presents from Obama

>>92645430
This coloring error bothers me every time.

>>92644528
I've been wanting to Storytime it for a while.
Plan to do so for Superman #25, in relation to Superman: Black concluding.

>>92648290
>anon doesn't even know the definition of collateral damage and wants to argue semantics

that's cute

>>92645058
The last time he did that it nearly killed everyone across the multiverse.

>>92648623
You are being an idiot, it's not collateral damage. The American army and bombs aim at the civilians all the time,its not an accident.

>>92648175
>"Stealth fighters are not invisible"

Fury, you dumb shit, you're in charge of SHIELD. Your stealth fighters can ABSOLUTELY be invisible.

>>92644281
The little shit who thought "Might Makes Right Until Someone Else Has More Might Then Me, Then I Just Cry Like A Little Bitch"

>>92648722
colleteral damage -injury inflicted on something other than an intended target; specifically : civilian casualties of a military operation

if the missions is a success then the loses are then considered acceptable you faggot

>>92644281
Telekinetics are never in the right.

>>92644281
Hey, Manchester! How's Manchester?

>>92644810
>hating on Obama

Racist

>>92644281
how long will it take for these "omg so deep" commentaries on the WoT to go the fuck away? no one who does these ever has anything particularly deep or enlightening to say about this, its just edgy shit like this "dude lmao we murder people, but like, so does the US government! dun dun dun"

>>92645058
Darksied is a much different beast than what the elite were dealing with. Superman would only kill if there was no other way. The elite were killing when there were clear ways to stop the problem without doing so

>>92648873
Civilians are targets too. Or do you think Israel is accidentally killing civilians??

>>92644830
This shot almost look like a shot from many 90's will kill hero assembled shot, is that international ?

>dirty Muslims that want Sharia Law in the West
>"""people"""

>>92649366
your post reeks of civvie so I'll briefly explain this once. In military ops headed by the USA there are multiple types of targets, Cilivian targets are a no no unless a militarily target of value happens to be among them, at which point they are collateral damage, and hinging on the operations success to neutralize said military target and then classified as acceptable losses.
If the military target is not neutralized depending on how big the blunder is whoever came up with the op takes a hit and the shit starts to roll down hill. Contrary to what you believe we don't target civilians for kicks and giggles, there is no net payoff on our end(eg increased enemy resistance and bad publicity) and therefore bad. Are there a ton of fuck ups, yes but to actually think we want to waste resources just cause is ignorant. I'm sure Israelis run a similar thought process for their ops but they literally give no fucks when it comes to their border disputes and their national security because they are fanatical about reclaiming any and all land that was part of their nation before the Romans kicked them out.

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There is literally nothing wrong with killing the wicked

>>92649877
did you learn nothing from Vietnam?

>>92649877
Who decides what constitutes as wicked.

>>92644528
It's always appreciated desu

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>>92650044
The god of the new world.

>>92645220
It's said to be a good way to fight acne

>>92650074
So in other words, the person with the power to impose their will on others, be it through force or coercion.

That's where that mindset falls apart.

>>92650126
That person is not a person. They are a living god.

>>92649812
>I'm sure Israelis run a similar thought process for their ops but they literally give no fucks when it comes to their border disputes and their national security because they are fanatical about reclaiming any and all land that was part of their nation before the Romans kicked them out.
Its more that Islam and the those who use to justify their actions do not care about the difference between civilian and military targets. Once the line is crossed on their end and it has been multiple times too many, you can't keep playing by "moral" grounds.
You either defeat them at all costs or you cost yourself lives on both sides no matter the outcome. So Israel sides with themselves because no one else will.

Why not just kill those with potential to destroy a city or disarm/immobilize them if given the chance .

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>>92649812
>>92650044
#Told.

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>>92650293
Even gods die.

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>>92646115
I guess a vicious deconstruction of insane SJW logic and a reaffirmation of the MLK Jr. type beliefs

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>>92650869
He lives on forever.

>>92650888
Two interesting facts: sometimes, people with a mental illness are utterly devoid of sympathy for people with the same one (something I saw with my uncle and depression), and people continue to horribly misuse MLKJ quotes.

>>92650397
the problem with Israel is the fact that everything for them is a zero-sum and they are by a large part unwilling to negotiate with any party, this includes the local druze and the Christians who inhabit land that was part of 50 AD Israel. they aren't as heavy handed with those two groups that i mentioned because there has been no violence on their end where as with Palestine and Lebanon if a mortar strike comes from a particular sector they return fire with impunity and don't give a fuck about any collateral damage which is why a large part of the international community dislikes them. Israel has dug it's own grave with their heavy handedness with it's complete disregard for collateral damage unless it causes immediate loss of life for Israeli citizens and their use of black ops that makes what we did in South America like like kiddy play.

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>>92650927
Good, now hold out your hand.

>>92646054
In the last issue of Superman? Yes.

>>92650988
hmm is this a reference to something

>>92648764
Shhhhh, he doesn't want to let them know that.

>>92645732
Free healthcare is un-American.

>>92644281
Goddammit people, this isn't hard.
Is the person going to continue to kill others/degrade liberty/life to an extreme degree? Has an attempt been made to reason that has failed? If the answer is yes to both, ace 'em.

If not, attempt to subdue rather than slay if possible.

I really never get these arguments, it all seems so common sense to me. Though the Authority's complete disregard for bystanders/collateral damage alone puts them in the wrong here.

>>92644281

>>92644281
>Why not? The government does it all the time.
Outside of some of the more shady operations in organizations like the CIA and the like, at least the government has some oversight and standards to follow. Manchester Black and the Elite on the other hand are just a bunch of out of control knob-heads that don't really answer to anyone but their own whims. But yeah, killing mass murderers like the Atomic Skull is perfectly fine with me, especially when it's done to save civilians.

>>92644528

>The American Way

Being assholes?.

supes. it's the governments job to kill people. if super heroes play judge jury and executioner shit can get out of hand. I think injustice made a pretty good argument against heroes killing their villains.

>>92645058
Darkseid is the one villain superman is willing to kill because he isn't as much a living being as he is an embodiment or a concept. He's a god of anti life, a pretty much irredeemable force of nature.

>>92646115
>Kinda makes me wonder what's going to be the refreshing change from "diversity" comics, white supremacy comics?

depends, I'd give it 50/50 that it either does go "white people, fuck yeah" or back to "race, sex, gender, etc shouldn't matter, being a decent person regardless is what matters."

honestly, I'd like the latter, but in order for us to get there, we might have to have the former. Simply because there is so much racism against "white people" and considering them degenerates that need to be purged that...there's gonna have to be something to "lift them up" so we can get back to an equal footing.

I honestly don't know. Probably going to depend on world events and all the "normies" getting out of comics so they're "lame" again and we can get back to the way we used to be.

>>92649877
Damn it Kira! Put that notebook down!!!

>>92644281
It's pretty depressing to know that literal comic book villains are actually less cartoonishly evil than real life state institutions. Where did it all go wrong?

>>92652819
And that is?

>>92650980
This

Admitedly, most of Israel's foes have attempted to be just as heavy handed, and as things like the 6 Day War and Yom Kip war showed, the only reason they're alive is dropping the hammer, so it kind of brought itself about. That being said, after a while most of them at least settled down, where as Israel hasn't.

I mean, take Syria for example. If they weren't fighting a civil war/invasion by ISIS, I doubt they'd much want to wipe Israel off the map these days. But if Israel got even a hint that Syria was going to start anything at all...they'd drop the hammer on Syria without hesitation. Even though it wouldn't be warranted.

>>92651157
no, expecting people to pay for your shit out of their own pockets is un-American. Get it right.

>>92644281
its not for sjw's to pester about justice systems in their pessimistic writing

its not the governments job to be heroic, and in most states its a jury of 12 that sends people to the grave in the people versus the convicted

in the bibles eyes, its the person flipping the switch or gripping the syringe that's guilty

your call, I personally like having a superman to look up to

>>92644810
if you have the time listen to this podcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yP7zPSQ86I

america is doing a lot of good son, but it's not popular nowadays to say so.
Critizism is necessary, but not unwarranted cynicism and exaggeration

>>92645234

And where are The Authority now?

>>92644281
The britbong.

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#24 VARIANT

I AM FRIGHTENED

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The Elite were right. What does Superman do for us? Nothing! Any super villain he stops breaks out of jail an hour later and they go right back to killing. When The Elite stop a super villain they really stop him! A vote for Manchester Black is a vote for peace!

>>92654117
Go to bed, Ellis.

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>>92653952
Absorbed into DC like most rivals. We need Superman in real life to help us fight monopolies.

>>92654117
>What does Superman do for us?
stand as proof that 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' is just a cop-out

>>92645487
I've always hated this ending.
It's good to have conviction, whether to kill or to keep your hands clean. If that's what you think is right.
But the comic sets up this moral conflict for Superman, when would it be okay for him to kill? What if there was no other way? But then he just pulls a lobotomy laser out his ass.
You can say
>there's always a way! Superman will always search for a better way to deal with the problem and that's what makes him great
But there very much are times when you can't find a perfect everyone wins option. Or you're protecting someone and you don't have the time to search for a better option.
It feels very much like a deus ex machina. It presents a human morality problem then solves it in a perfect, inhuman way.

>>92644281
Whoever chose the art direction, goddamn.

>>92644281
Black. He immediately begs for his life the moment he realizes he can't beat Superman. For all his "The strongest make the rules" bullshit, he didn't believe it when it came down to his life.

>>92654505
Well that's the thing. I think characters like Superman and Wonder Woman ARE perfectly OK to have always find a better way, because that's just what they're about, optimism instead of cynicism (or "realism" if you will). Not every character has to be reflective of the morally gray real world, and while there's a need for Superman's world to reflect reality enough so that we can relate to it, I think when you have situations where Superman is forced to do something bad just clash with what the character is about.

You have situations like with Zod in the pocket universe, where killing them seems totally out of character for Superman and unnecessary, and then you have situations like with Wonder Woman and Maxwell Lord, that are completely unrealistic and contrived and not really a moral choice at all.

This is why I think in comics there's more than enough room for Superman AND the Authority. You have WildStorm's more realistic, cynical and morally complex outlook on superheroes, and you have Superman, who's an optimistic view.

>>92644281
Supemans right.

You can just call yourself a Cop instead though.

>>92644281
The US guy generally used his immortality&powers&access to information to come up with a plan that results in the least damage to everything.

The Brit just got the largest bomb he could get his hands on and dropped it in the general vincinity.

>>92654535
Superhero cartoons have looked like garbage for ages, bro. The simplified, blocky, unrealistic style makes it impossible to see them as anything more than Saturday morning children's cartoons. They do it because it's cheap, which in turn cheapens the final result.

The government is, at least in theory, supposed to face some degree of both internal and external oversight.

The Elite just killed whoever they thought it was a good idea to kill.

>>92654286
Or just a good anti-trust lawsuit. It broke Standard Oil, it can break DC and Marvel.

>>92652819
No it didn't it's the same as this comic and that's the problem.
DC can't do a real introspection of a heroes who kill story because if it's measured and balanced its pretty obvious a 'no killing never ever' or 'there's always another way' rules are simplistic, childish, don't solve the problem and exist only because of the status quo.

Which is why injustice superman and Manchester black have to be exposed as moustache twirling caricatures so they can be strawmanned to death.

>>92654620
Why does everyone think and claim the Elite's M.O. is Might Makes Right? They're not Apocalypse or they wouldn't even be fighting villains who overpower the common man.
Black even says here >>92644867 his principles started from a notion of the good, not strong, beating evil, not weak, without moral ambiguity, but then he realized the real world wouldn't allow for that sort of thing. Heroes can't go anywhere and fight any ill because of moral relativism, politics and legal limitations. People exactly like Lex duck and dodge due process while committing their vice through the very system that's supposed to keep society safe but keeps them under threat of exploitation from the whims of sociopaths.

Superman then highlights he knows the world rejects simple morality >>92644919 but refuses to reject his own principles. Black comes to the conclusion then that because the differences between them are based on their backgrounds more than their beliefs Superman just cannot be convinced that acting as society's diaper instead of teaching them restraint and hygiene means the hero's work amounts to really just waiting to see how long it takes for things to leak.

Superman's response is that even if that's the case, Manchester knows it shouldn't be like this and they shouldn't make it become irreversible. They have the power now to keep the tide at bay instead of sail over it, they should strive for something that wasn't possible before.

Black's done with the discussion by that point though since again their ideas of the present and future come down to their past. So he spits back if Superman wants to live in the past he can.

>>92655274
>People exactly like Lex duck and dodge due process while committing their vice through the very system that's supposed to keep society safe but keeps them under threat of exploitation from the whims of sociopaths.

And Superman keeps showing up to stop Lex's plans anyway.

Killing is the lazy way. Chester's just a slacker.

>>92655116
Image and IDW probably have enough marketshare to argue against a monopoly claim.

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>>92654015

>>92655345

>And Superman keeps showing up to stop Lex's plans anyway.

With absolutely no casualties and collateral damage, right?

>>92655345
Word limit, wasn't quite done. I was just painting Manchester's view of the immediate matter.

>>92655274
In conclusion though, Superman's rebuttal isn't to turn might makes right on them, but show them where their idea of the future lead in a world with walking weapons of mass destruction.

He illustrates that if all fights start and end with a lack of civility, of someone showing and teaching that good can exist after misfortune, evil and conflict, it will mean only savagery endures every time.

Not right or wrong but a sheer force of nature.
The last person standing will be someone who doesn't give a single fuck about any of their debate.

It's not that there's a correct way for them, just that anything in their way in life needs to die. Evil has to prey on society, good tries to protect society, a destructive force however will leave nothing in its wake.

Superman illustrates that if someone like him, a Kryptonian, was met with Manchester's background, present behavior and future beliefs instead of the ones Manchester scoffs at the Kents providing they'd less likely become the composed human standing there willing to at least hold a civil conversation about their conflicts, and more likely to have just lobotomized anyone who threatens them and step over every philosophy.
They'd be inhuman because humanity never showed them humanity, and Earth would just be cosmic ash. Who wins then?

Sometimes ideas like morality that seem not to make everything right in the world, prevent far worse things from having happened. We don't appreciate the subtle influence of dreams on reality because never imagine the full truth.

>>92655421
Lex doesn't leave a bodycount, he's a white collar criminal. And Supes' other villains don't actually break out of jail often the way Batman's do.

The ones who do recurr like Metallo or Brainiac can't actually be killed, they're robots or immortals.

>>92655414
stop

>>92655037
>in theory

key words

>>92647147
you were pretty prissy when 9/11 happen tho

>>92644638
>And in three months, it would happen all over again

So, Superman is directly responsible for American foreign policy?
Gotta love those witty and insightful comic book writers.

>>92647605
>immigrate to Switzerland and be geopolitically neutral like the Swiss banks (now that I think about it, I don't know why some hero hasn't done that).

Because there are no supervillains in Switzerland and aliens never invade Switzerland.

It's either retirement or at the very least a shitty commute every time you wanna go on patrol or hear about a disaster on the news.

>>92652564
It's talking about a fictional US that truly attained the revered and coveted state of dindu nuff.

>>92655494
Aside from the time his project Everyman killed thousands.

>>92655494
He blew up a planet.

>murder people and be general psychopath
>pssh the government does it all the time
>see how I used witty referential example to justify my shitty actions?
>w-wait Superman can't kill us
>THAT'S NOT FAIR
Loved it

>>92655612
>and aliens never invade Switzerland.

That's what universal conscription and assault rifles in every household do, yes.

>>92655494
>Lex doesn't leave a bodycount, he's a white collar criminal.

He sold the first test production runs of exotic direct energy guns to inner city gangs during the 90s runs.

>>92644453
>is superman a brain surgeon? How did he know what part of the brain controls his powers?

>>92655882
To quote a certain Brigadier, "Just once, I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets!"

Best Superman comic. Best Superman movie.

Black was right in a roundabout way.

In the end, nobody can stop superman if he DID start killing people, he's ultimately the highest authority by virtue of his sheer might. The rest of the world is simply lucky he's charitable enough he doesn't just kill people, but that's of no comfort when there's nothing to stop him if he chose to and his adherence to a judicial system is purely voluntary.

>>92645124
No one rules Apokolips like Darkseid. And his lackeys tend to be a lot more cruel and stupid than him.

>>92645430
what did he do to her exactly?

>>92653817
why the hell do you write like this

what is wrong with you

do you do this to fuck with us

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>>92655274
>>92655472
To give real life context to what I'm trying to soapbox about, most criminals diagnosed with sociopathy share poor moral fiber in the formative years. Regardless of what lead to forming their worst selves, the foundation of their identity lacked structural integrity.

Because people were and are more willing to ignore or attack than help or guide, some gain little to no instilled concept of empathy. Which results less in unquestionably questionable thoughts and actions, as not all with sociopathy are driven to needless ill despite what media portrays, and more just a rare questioning of one's thoughts and actions. Which ironically is fairly common in society.
Nevertheless the belief of virtue, the virtues of which we as a society take for granted, then becomes actually immaterial to them. It isn't just ridiculed in their mind when in a sour mood, it's intellectual gossamer.

Now I'm not saying they're not responsible for themselves, I'm not saying you shouldn't take responsibility to defend yourself as necessary, just don't assume that justifies being unnecessarily offensive and irresponsible. It's the weight of Atlas to recall but every action no matter how small has an equal and opposite reaction, that's what those like Superman shoulder with their strength of character not just how much they can bench press. Anyone can act dismissive of decency if it soothes their conscience but no one should fool themselves into the belief it actually dismisses consequences, or else one Jones Town later a lot of people will have to die before a few learn it wouldn't kill to let one child believe there can be good in life.

To be clear those with sociopathy can grasp empathy as studies have found but do not expect them to pass on what they weren't given. Therein lies the danger of a society with increasingly more people with significantly less hope in humanity. It very much is a slippery slope and there is no going back past a certain point. Tread carefully.

>>92655985
plenty of people could stop superman

the whole premise of the injustice story hinges on how everyone who could stop superman is on superman's side, so batman just brings over the versions of those characters from another universe and THEY stop superman

>>92644326
>>92644453
And then when the Elites were being treated the way they treated others, they called Superman a hypocrite
Like what the fuck

>>92645559
thank you based anon, always wanted to read it

>>92644976
It was 2001, they didn't have smartphones and video skype then.

>>92645058
>Kills Darksied
>2-3 weeks later
>Darksied is back

>>92645513
The same fucking shit except without the whole world praising them for their murder sprees.

>>92648764
But how can they be stealth fighters if he knows they're there?

>>92652819
> if super heroes play judge jury and executioner shit can get out of hand
I feel like this was a line Batman made, but I don't know which Batman

>>92648764
This is the MAX universe Fury which doesn't have as much fantastical or sci-fi elements.

>>92644281
Superman because they exist in a comic book universe where villains will always escape and kill again

>>92647834
and if the phantom zone don't work, hurl them into the source wall

>>92644281
The Elite.

That being said, What's So Funny With Truth, Justice And The American Way is quite possibly the best Superman story out there. And even explains why Snyder's take on Superman was shit.

>>92655947
He can read an entire library's worth of books in less than a day, anon. He's a super genius, it's just that he rarely gets an opportunity to show that off post Silver-Age.

>>92644281
Joe Kelly for thinking his meta piece was entertaining.

>>92644528
Until /co/ stops taking the morality of what happens in cape comics seriously.
So keep it on the burner for a while.

>>92644546
Good lord, Superman's eyes. They're practically out of their sockets, what the fuck.

>>92649812
>let me, some schmo who happened to have served in the army, explain to you that targetting civilians doesn't happen when it's very well documented that it has happened
Of course they're not going to officially come out and say it when they target civilians. It's not "for shits and giggles", some civilian targets can be considered strategic.

>>92645519
>>92645538
Prank of the century.

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>>92644315
fpbp

>>92644281
Both wrong.

Elite are a massive strong man. They have the correct ideas and philosophy. however, are giant hypocrites, undermining their stated goals and ideals.

have no oversight and are criminals hiding their own crimes.

The Authority would kick the Elites asses, and get along with the Justice league perfectly fine.

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>>92645559
>we don't have this Superman in Injustice games
>we don't have this Superman in the current DC films

>>92645559
I just realized that his costume apparently repaired itself between panels.

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>>92645388
Why the fuck would they keep their powers? So they won't have to answer to their various crimes and be free to attack again? They're sociopaths who shouldn't be trusted with them in the first place. He has every right to take them since they're still very much a threat to human life.

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>>92651034
Yeah, its referencing an old American comic from the 90s.

>>92658892
I genuinely don't understand why DCCU doesn't just adapt this story as a soft reboot for Superman. It's simple, it's to the point, and it shines a light directly on the issues the general populous have with Superman. Since everyone and their mothers already know Superman's origin story, why not tell a story that highlights his purpose?

>>92658633
>>92658881
both these anons are right

>>92659248
This comic is amazing. Too bad issue #2 was never made.

Where else could I find a set up even similar to this?

>>92659168
So were the villas they have stopped.

>>92659275
Because it's a dogshit meta statement on edgy superheroes and nothing else.
Normies already hate the goody-two-shoes image of Supes, you really don't want to be as in your face as this and basically tell them they're hypocritical bitches for not liking that aspect of the character.
You want Superman to act like a more hopeful figure more in line with the popular image of him, sure, but you can do that by just telling a normal and entertaining Superman story, you really don't need to have him defeating strawmen and basically pontificating about how if you like characters with different morals you're a douche. This story perfectly illustrates how to write Superman only for defending his case, which isn't going to appeal to anyone who isn't an autistic "my hero is better than yours" shitposter.

Stop writing Superman as a fucking meta statement (and that's also valid for the DCEU), write him as a goddamn character having a goddamn adventure.

>>92644281
What's with the artstyle? Superman looks like he has too much chin

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>>92659347
They're still criminals, you inbred. Just because they killed a handful of psychos doesn't excuse the massive body count of innocents.

>>92658881

Warren Ellis Authority was also much more optimistic. Jenny Sparks was grumpy and caustic, but one of the recurring themes was that she was ultimately an idealist that wanted to build a better world.

Mark Millar Authority had a much more cynical vibe and he portrayed them as party animals who would show up to fights drunk.

>>92650888

Why bother screen capping such a worthless post? It's just masturbatory straw-manning that makes no attempt at understanding a presumed enemy.

>>92653778

Yeah, can you believe people get angry when I ask them for bribes to do my policework? It's almost like they want a 1st world society, the fucking mooks.

>>92659464
>They're still criminals
What makes people criminals is the law. The law is written by the people with the power to enforce it. Going back to the OP pic, The Elite are really no different from most if not all governments in the way they behave.

If you have the power to create and enforce your own law, technically you're not a criminal. Whatever the law is at any given time, it's something that was it was written by fallible people. That's why laws keep changing and people who would have been criminals stop being criminals and people who weren't criminals before become criminals.

Were they bad people who abused their power? Sure. But so are most people in power because while they're not SUPPOSED to be above the rule of law, in reality they are because they have the power to enforce whatever law they want.

>>92655274
Superman's position is all well and good for the most powerful person of the planet. He has the means to solve major threats and keep every party alive, but most heroes would be fools to not try to kill their villains when attacked by them. The Elites real misstep was when they started taking the position of the aggressors rather than defending themselves.

>>92654505

The ending works because Manchester Black is himself a superhuman using inhuman solutions to human problems. Supes wouldn't be so tough on him shit if he was just a guy with a gun taking things into his own hands. Case in point: Tommy Monoghan.

>>92644281
The guys in charge of hiring animators, because they picked the guys who did One Piece