Genuinely loved the ending

>>92632225
The ending was great, I liked it too. Bittersweet and beautiful.

>>92632225
I want the detractors to challenge this.
Not because I want to start a shitfest, but because I think we're focused on different things in our critiques and I want to know if they legit think this isn't a beautiful way to look at it.

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but who was she? the girl from the haunted house?

>>92632225
>her last gift to him is making sure all his friends are wiped from existence against their will

Epic I'm glad she made that decision for everyone.

I just think that it goes against what the series has been building up. Jack has helped so many people and made many friends in the future, even going so far as to turn away from portals to protect the innocents of the future. They all showed up for this final battle and a bunch of them just died without any emotion from Jack because "muh romance subplot" was more important. Not to mention that Jack went through that portal never saying goodbye to any of the friends he's made over the past 50 years.
Ashi is a complete Mary Sue and should have died with the rest of her sisters. She exists only for the shitty romance subplot and as a deus ex machina plot device to send Jack back to the past. Hell, her final line was exposition that only serves to further complicate the already existing paradox.

>>92632919
They never existed in the first, they were part of aku's future. The centuries of aku's dominance needed to be undo, which would've saved lives

>>92632975

Except that future wasn't all that horrible. There were plenty of people working to make the best out of it and that was the beauty of it.

I just didn't like how much time was wasted.
That long ass Scotsman bit about his daughters, everyone getting in front of their TVs or whatever (should've just opened with the original intro)... I appreciate the callbacks but that could've been done in the final battle. Plus Jack never really said goodbye to any of them... :(

Not to mention the whole "power of love" saving Ashi bit. And the Guardian was completely dropped? Not even mentioned once? Jack had a beard in this season I guess...

>>92632975
>they never existed
Yes they did
>undo to save lives
Those lives are literally all chilling in the afterlife. Who gives a shit, us as viewers weren't even acquainted with them. Jacks wedding should of been surrounded by characters that weren't only in 1 episode.

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>>92633004
>Except that future wasn't all that horrible

>>92632937
>even going so far as to turn away from portals to protect the innocents of the future
This is what bugs me the most. What was the point of that when Jack was just gonna go to the past and undo everything anyway

>>92633027
If they are chilling in the afterlife then what is everyone waiting for? They should all kill themselves

>>92632225
I am of the belief that when people complain about work of art, it is because they do not understand it. Or, at least, they have no desire to understand it. They don't see the connections, the motifs, the beauty of it all. But that's OK. Anons like you and me do. And that's fine.

>>92633041
Because suicide usually bars entrance to the afterlife? Are you retarded?

And Jack does contemplate suicide back when the episodes were good, if you recall.

>>92632919
You mean everyone other than all of Jack's friends who came to save him from Aku, knowing full well what that would likely mean EVEN IF he didn't get back to the past?

>>92632225
My most disliked thing isn't even the past, it's the future. And it could've been solved so easily, just defeat future Aku first, THEN send Samurai into the past with goodbye from his friends. No need for second fight with Aku, just get it over with nice death scene. Might as well abolish the bullshit death for drama, since that would reinforce the fact that people from future are still alive.

>>92632919
Everyone Jack touched was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for him. They wouldn't have fought Aku for his sake if they weren't.
The future being lost was always going to be a cost.

And Jack sacrificing his quest for others was kind of an ongoing theme. He needed people willing to sacrifice themselves for his quest instead for him to go back.

>>92633070
>Because suicide usually bars entrance to the afterlife? Are you retarded?
where is this stated in Samurai Jack? As you even said, Jack was about to do an honorable death.

>>92633037
Because helping them was the right thing to do.

>>92633027
His friends in the future knew that he would go back and undo the future that is aku so they knew that they will be erased but still saved them.

>>92633037
He probably went back because it was his last chance EVER - remember, all of the portals were destroyed at that point. It was now or never in terms of fixing things.

>>92633030
If the future was worth getting rid of and absolutely devoid of value and beauty then there shouldn't have been anything left to convince Ashi to doubt her beliefs and switch sides.

>>92633098
The ultimate sacrifice is death. I'm sure people were ready to die for Jack, but have there existence erased? Clearly not because Scotsman still cares about his daughters and even offers to marry one off, and everyone is shocked when ashi disappears.
>>92633102
What do you mean? Do you know anything?

>>92633098
>They wouldn't have fought Aku for his sake if they weren't.
Do they actually know he's going to change the past or do they just think he's trying to defeat Aku?

>>92633122
Clearly not, they don't acknowledge this as all and even the Scotsmans reactions during the fight prove this

>>92633122
God, I hate you people grabbing on the words from intro. Clearly the words that are told from villain's perspective, and written at the very beginning of series must come true. But you're not even saying that you think it should be true, you think CHARACTERS IN THE SHOW believe what Aku says.

>>92633122
You are literally making shit up.

>>92633055
Or maybe we just think it was better when Gurren Lagaan did it.

>>92633103
Saving a handful of lives<<<Saving everyone by going back to the past
>>92633131
But it wasn't his last chance ever. If Any was killed in the future, Ash would still have his powers. They could go back whenever. Why didn't they save the people in the future before going back this time?

>>92633177
It's like you never watched jack, he says it here himself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqpf8b7DIQs

>>92633204
>saving everyone
By erasing a universe of people.

>>92633098
Sacrifice without knowledge of the sacrifice or choice to make it isn't actually sacrifice, it's just being screwed.

>>92633213
Who is the "he" in your post referencing?

>>92633213
You forgot to link time faggot. And in this very episode Jack goes back to save people. Why would he go to save someone when they will be undone? Either it was planned for future to stay the way it is after Jack leaving or Jack himself thought this way.

>>92633253
Samurai Jack

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>>92632937
I liked her journey.
She was preprogrammed to eliminate Jack like so many of the robots we saw in the original run, and artistically I loved watching her transform from that to what she became at the end.
Again, going back to the whole beauty thing in OP, I found it poetic that someone born in darkness that secretly yearned for the beauty of the world to restore that beauty.

I appreciate it way more by looking at it from an artistic perspective rather than purely plot-related perspective. And I feel that with SJ, we're supposed to do that to some extent.

>>92633219
>by erasing a universe of people
Then why go back at all? I think you're misunderstanding me here. I'm saying that, if this was how the ending was going to be all along, then having Jack not use the portals earlier is shitty writing. If the end goal was to have Jack stay in the future like it seemed to be building up to, then it might have made more sense. I'd have preferred the latter.

>>92633204
Where's the guarantee he would be able to kill Aku in the future? Where's the guarantee Aku wouldn't kill Ashi somehow and destroy Jack's only way of getting back?

>>92633177
That was the purpose of the original intro in the beginning expect fanservice,to explain to everyone jacjson story and what is his goal. You are fucking stupid

>>92633274
Okay, then you screwed up your link, just FYI.

>>92633140
Shinto has no problem with suicide, which is why Seppuku was used to keep your honor. Pretty much only Abrahamic religion, not part of Samurai Jack, has a problem with it.

>>92633285
>Where's the guarantee he would be able to kill Aku in the future?
Well, there's the fact that Aku is terrified and hides and runs away from him even in the future.

>>92633315
https://youtu.be/fqpf8b7DIQs?t=498

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>>92632225
The dialogue.
Instead of explaining what's happening she should of made her last moments silent.
>She collapses at wedding. Held in Jack's arms.
>"Ashi what's wrong?!"
>She looks at him fatigued. She smiles a tired smile. Gently grabs his face kisses his jaw. Fades away. Then the Cherry Blossom lady bug ending.

Or

>No wedding. She grabs Jack by his hand. "Ashi," Jack smiles. "Where are we going?" "Shush it's a surprise."
>She leads him up the hill to the cherry blossom.
>"Remember this?" Ashi smiles her voice slightly weaker. She slowly leads his hand to the trunk of the tree. He stares at her a hint of sadness in his eyes.
>"Yes..." He stated his voice even. "Let's lay here just for a moment." Ashi requests.
>They sit. She relaxes her head on his shoulder. Sitting in a beautiful white kimono.
>"Ashi..."
>"Yes, Jack?" She asked her eyes closed.
>"Is this the future how you've envisioned it?" Jack tears up.
>"Jack, this is the future I've always dreamed of. Thank you."
>Camera goes behind them. Ashi is no longer there just her clothes laying on Jack. Cherry blossoms float away in the breeze.

>Where's the guarantee he would be able to kill Aku in the future?
I mean, he's already defeated Aku several times. Now he's at Aku's HQ. He can't exactly run off this time.
>Where's the guarantee Aku wouldn't kill Ashi somehow and destroy Jack's only way of getting back?
This is actually a valid point but if he was gonna kill Ashi, why didn't he already do it after she freed herself?

Can't wait for fans to make a Ashi-free cut of the series. She dies after the first three eps, Jack meditates his sword back and forces a portal out of Aku with the help of everyone he's saved on his journey. The final shot is him smiling because his last season was good.

>>92633403
I actually really want to make an alternate ending myself. I've got Flash, but it's the drawing that's the tough part

>>92633403
hopefully anon

>>92633384
>if he was gonna kill Ashi, why didn't he already do it after she freed herself?
Because he didn't have enough time! The fight was cut off when Ashi realized she had Aku's powers.

>>92633384
Meant to reply to >>92633285

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>>92633280
This.

I don't get why people are so bogged down in technicalities and trying to analyze every single minute detail to rationalize how they could have their cake and eat it too if Jack just played his cards this way or that way. That's not what it was supposed to be.

>>92633312
Fanservice was THE purpose. No one acknowledges sacrifice, no one says anything about past or time travel. They just see Jack hostage and that they need to help him to defeat Aku.
>ay jack, see my daughters, you really need to marry one of them
>and by the way, I know you're planning to undo us all

>>92633428
>Because he didn't have enough time! The fight was cut off when Ashi realized she had Aku's powers.
Okay, but there was like a whole 30 seconds where Aku realized that she had his powers. If he had some kill switch or something to finish her off, why didn't he use it then and there? Fact is, he probably didn't have a fail-safe and, since Ashi looked to be on equal footing with Aku (despite only having a few drops of his essence compared to Aku being the source himself) combined with the fact that Jack (who has already defeated Aku countless times) was there, there's not much of a chance monkey face would buy the farm.

>>92633460
Because that's totally what people are hung up on, minor details. Not the fact that every part of it was terrible both in concept and execution.

Note how Jack mourns some whore he just met but the Scotsman never existing doesn't cross his mind.

>>92633346
I like those as alternatives, but regardless of whether or not you think it would be better executed, they would ultimately lead to a similar kind of ending, which is what most of the fans have a problem with to begin with.

>>92633460
Probably because, as many, many people have pointed out, this ending and entire concept was done better ten years ago.

>>92632897
Brak from Space Ghost

>>92632795
I don't think Ashi NEEDED to make a sacrifice, narratively, for the ending to work. I don't think her foreknowledge was too well-communicated, either. Most importantly, I think the ending leaves it too ambiguous as to what happened to the future people, how it effected Jack, and whether Ashi was utterly erased in body AND soul. I tend to think she wasn't, since her soul has nothing to do with Aku and you have the lone ladybug, but it seems pretty fuzzy. I also find it to impact the ending badly that Ashi and Jack never get a farewell, and Ashi doesn't get to affirm her love to Jack. We can infer it easily, but considering how short the denouement is, I think it would have made the scene feel less bitter.

When writing an ending, I feel like you kind of have to ask WHY you're doing that ending, what are you trying to say with it? Showing that Ashi and Jack were so selfless and still painfully parted despite their fears and reassurances hands Aku a victory of a sorts that he really does not deserve.

>>92633490
>which is what most of the fans have a problem with to begin with.
Tengen
Toppa
Gurren
Lagaan.

Execution does in fact make a difference.

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>>92632919
Why do you guys ignore the fact it was going to happen ..we saw this season Jack jumped right into a portal without a second thought. His goal was to go back he wasn't forced. and everyone we met will still be born just in a better timeline

>>92633280
>I found it poetic that someone born in darkness that secretly yearned for the beauty of the world to restore that beauty.
Her entire character development could have been done in a single episode if Genndy didn't want to impose his masturbatory fantasy character on the audience. Hell I'd even accept her showing up in the final fight too, but other than that, she does absolutely nothing for the plot that other characters couldn't do better.

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>wait Jack without aku I am nothing also palpatine is a Sith Lord!

>>92633541
>everyone we met will still be born just in a better timeline
https://www.fanfiction.net

>>92633527
Not saying it doesn't, and admittedly I also wish her last words to Jack were something more romantic than "without Aku, I never would have existed," but the whole going back to the past and disappearing because time paradox thing seems to make up the bulk of complaints.

The callbacks to the evolution of her character and the beautiful imagery that compliments it were what made it for me, but that's just me.

>>92633610
Claiming the opposite is also fanfiction, though. We simply DO NOT KNOW, and perhaps it's better to end the series that way. Let your imagination run wild.

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>>92633610
>my fan fiction is truer than yours

>>92633541
We saw a deranged and murderous and angry Jack jump into a portal immediately, yeah.

>>92633611
It was true. Look at the tree in the parting shot. It's a half-heart. (Or half-yin-yang).

>>92633630
>>92633636
He seeks to UNDO the future. Not make it better. Undo it.

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lava theory they say
lava theory my ass
Genndy you had one job ,one job

>>92633481
I didn't say he had a fail-safe. I said he might have been able to defeat her, even with Jack helping her.

Why would either Ashi OR Jack risk that?

>>92633487
>Not the fact that every part of it was terrible both in concept and execution.

It wasn't, though.

>>92633656
You CONVENIENTLY left out the rest of it: "the future THAT IS AKU". NOT the future in general.

>>92633681
>Why would either Ashi OR Jack risk that?
Because it meant saving people in the future. Not that Jack cares about the people of the future, apparently, considering most of his friends were killed by Aku and he showed no emotion about it.

>>92633656
>UNDO the future

"That is Aku"

You forgot that one but.

>>92633701
50 years of despair will do that to a person, regardless if they thought they "got over it" or not.

Face it futurefags, going back was the ONLY way.

Remember when Nia from Gurren Lagann disappeared on her wedding day because the anti spiral got defeated?

>>92633403
Reminder that fags like this guy are in the minority.

http://www.strawpoll.me/12982841/r

>>92633715
>Face it futurefags, going back was the ONLY way.
There's ways he could have saved the past AND stay in the future though

>>92633712
>forgot
kek

>>92633712
Tbh having jacks friends cope with the fact that they are a part of aku just as much as ashi is in a way would've been satisfying, and having Jack deal with that by either going to the past or sparing them.

But no, this is Samurai Hack so

>>92632225
The ending sucked, Genndy is a hack. Also does Ashi have a soul? The afterlife is a thing in Samurai Jack and getting erased from existence would be a fate far worse than death.

>>92633729
No. "Saving the past" means killing Aku in the past which means that future will NOT exist as we knew it. Period.
Whether Jack stays in the future is irrelevant here.

>>92633715
>the only way to achieve peace is to go back to the ghosts of your past for a magic repeat

What other good pieces of fiction EVER do something like this? Usually messages are about looking towards the future, not trying to chase magic solutions to your problems.

>>92633728
But does anyone have a link to the pastfag vs. futurefag strawpoll? IIRC the futurefags were winning there, much to my horror.

>>92633715
>regardless if they thought they "got over it"
So you're saying that got over it, but he didn't. Kay.
>going back was the ONLY way.
Not necessarily, but I'd be completely fine with going back if they adressed it. Make the "bittersweetness" of ending come from the fact that he lost all people he knew, not just muh ashi.

>>92633700
The future in general is aku, see >>92633343

jack is under no illusion

>>92633753
Ashi must have a soul, since she's a human being with a demonstrable separate existence from Aku. Hell, when Aku dies and the part of him in her does as well, she isn't harmed or changed (save losing her powers, probably).

>>92633802
>I can't comprehend good endings because I'm a retard

Jack went back to the past and nobody liked the ending. That should be proof that your opinion is fucking shit.

>>92632795

I really really love the idea of a lone hero and Ashi's took away from that. Yes I understand it's still Jack's show but I like him not having any traveling companions.

That's really it.

>>92633815
Aku is dead. Past, present, and future.
(And due to Ashi's disappearance we know for sure there aren't any parallel timelines he could be hiding in.)

>>92633770
>Jack goes through the portal
>Meets past Jack inside the portal
>They grab arms and throw each other back the way they came
>Future Jack uses his sword to tear apart the portal from the inside
>Dynamic fight scene showing both Jacks fighting both Akus
>Since future is separate from past now, everyone still lives
>Ash still dies because Aku's dead or something and she's a terrible character
Everyone's happy.

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>>92633610
Genndy has done this kind of time travel before...you know?

>>92633819
Someone needs to ask Genndy if Ashi has a soul and some say the hidden meeting for the lady bug is a message from a lover, and it means they will meet again in the afterlife.

>>92633861
>Since future is separate from past now
That's the part you're messing up. The future is NOT separate from the past.

>>92633908
You missed the part where half of posts is someone's fanfic, because Genndy left us with nothing concrete.

>>92633908
>That's the part you're messing up. The future is NOT separate from the past.
What part of "Jack tears up the inside of the portal with the specific intention of separating the future from the past" didn't you get?

>>92633841
Futurefags are fucking retarded.

>But muh metaphors!

It's a show about a guy trying to get back to the past and in the end, he did that.

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>>92633490
The execution matters immensely. Also wastes of time.
>The beginning. Not just using the throwback as an intro.

>Scottsman's daughters naming sequence. Waste of time.

>Defeat of Aku in future leading to Jack's farewell from his friends. Ashi could go with him.

It's not the ending itself. It's how it's done with what they have.

>>92633953
If it was just a show about trying to get back to the past above all else, it should've ended the second he found a time portal.

You're the retard.

>>92633848
Jack being alone was part of why his quest didn't succeed. Even the comics noticed that.

>>92633888
Could always ask Phil or Tara, they may know or have an opinion and seem to care.

>>92633948
How in the world does tearing up the portal erase the ripple effect caused by destroying past Aku?

>>92633997
There are a few things I wish they did a bit differently, for sure, but I don't think it would have mitigated the plot-related complaints people have.

>>92634031
Agreed.
Even when the opportunity presents itself, he wouldn't take it. It took someone effectively making the decision for him for it to happen.

>>92634127
I still think he would have taken it this time with the knowledge that it was the last opportunity to do so.

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>>92634094
I have no plot complaints. Just execution ones.

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rip best daughter

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oh no! I just killed all these kids and I'm going to commit suicide over the guilt!

>5 episodes later

Pssh, whatever kids. Fuck y'all lol enjoy not existing :))

>>92632225
Good for you

>>92634142
I don't know. The flashback scene of Aku destroying the last portal makes a point out of the fact that Jack doesn't slowly walk towards it or pause to hold a gay little speech. He just charges straight for that motherfucker as soon as he spots it.

>"without aku I can't exist"
>without ashi existing jack can't go back to the past and kill aku

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>>92632225
>TFW ending left me depress for the last 2 days and sluggish at work

BRING HER BACK GENNDY

>>92634172
>Choice between a shitty world and a good one
>We should pick the shitty one because all the people who live shitty lives in it wouldn't exist in the good universe.

>>92634194
Jack was in a crazed state during all of that and only let that shine through when he was ripped out of the portal. It wasn't Jack.

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>>92633055

>>92634228
He could've fixed the shittness though, and not everyone had shitty lives, and even if they did, they would be able to go to the afterlife.

You literally have no moral argument.

>>92632795
Ashis death was stupid because it happened RIGHT at the ending instead of dying right away.That makes no sense and the fact that an anime did it makes it look like a rip off.
Ashii was a plot device introduced as a shoe horned in love interest that jack could lose to make the ending "bittersweet", ignoring the fact that jack going back in time is in itself bittersweet.Yes he is killing his friends but hes also saving the world from aku.
The ending seemeed to imply jack was fine with all of his friends dying and only missed ashii,which is bullshit because we have known his friends for 15 years and ashi for 2 months.
But thats what happens when you create a show with a clear goal and dont have an ending planned.

>>92634228
Moral dilemma? Pfft, who needs that. Jack already stopped giving shit about those people.

>>92634079
How does drinking the essence of an evil spirit make you pregante? How did killing Aku destroy his tower? How did Jack get turned into a chicken?

Magic.

>>92634267
Ashi was primarily a plot device to force Jack to finally go back. That's it.

Nothing inherently bittersweet about it.

>>92634226
Nah, Ashi disappearing was the only thing the ending did right

>>92632937
>Ashi is a complete Mary Sue and should have died with the rest of her sisters. She exists only for the shitty romance subplot and as a deus ex machina plot device to send Jack back to the past. Hell, her final line was exposition that only serves to further complicate the already existing paradox.

Thanks for summing it up so well, anon. If Ashi had died with the rest of her sister, none of Season 5's problems would've existed, I'm serious.

>>92633055
Nigga shut the fuck up.
People have the right to criticize this ending for the faults it had.
If you liked it then good for you but dont come in with your snobby ass and tell us "we didnt get it" like we are 5 year olds.

>>92634248
That's some hot headcanon you got there.

>>92634266
>He could've fixed the shittness though

For the present day, yes, but what about the centuries of misery under Aku?

Jack had a chance to go back and prevent those shitty centuries from ever happening.

You literally have no moral argument.

>>92634276
Even outright magic has to make sense in-universe. Your idea simply does not.

Episode C:
>Jack:There are no time portals.I have failed.
>Ashii:Jack,cant you see? You can change this future for the better.You have saved lives! Theres still something to fight for.
Episode CI
>Ashii:LOL NEVERMIND LETS JUST GO BACK TO THE PAST

>>92634303
>I'm serious.

Then you're seriously retarded.

>>92634147
That's cool, but I don't know that the majority of detractors would share that sentiment.

>>92634394
Episode C was the mistake.

>>92634357
The last time mad Jack appeared there was a string of events that led to him finally being released. Jacks mental deterioration didn't just do this, but also caused his sword to leave him. It's not a headcanon, you're just retarded.

>>92634394
>Jack:There are no time portals.I have failed.
>Turns out there is one
>NOPE YOU SHOULD STAY IN THE FUTURE BECAUSE MUH METAPHORS.

>>92632225

An alternate ending for you.

>Everything the same, but good i.e not rushed.
>Roll credits.
>Post credits scene.
>Jack steps foward in a dark place.
>There's a big light coming from the roof and a big blue man in a suit, wearing red glasse standing in front of the light.
>Jack stares from under his hat.
>"So, mah man... you plan to use this portal to bring back you lil' friends from the future huh? Or was it YOUR past? Hah! Not gonna happen."
>Jack keep staring his eyes are visible now.
>"You see mah man... there's only one man who will use this portal"
>(Portal shows King Jack)
>"And you mah man... Ain't. That. Man."
>Jack draws his sword.
>"If that's the only man who will earn your blessing to use this portal fear not... I'm not here asking for permission."
>Guardian Laughs "HAH! HAH! HAH!" then draws a big katana from his back"
>They charge at each other and start fighting.
>Jack uses his horse cut technique while we hear his toughts "Ashi I'm coming"
>From the sparks of the blades there's a fadeway to a white place (the limbo maybe?) where we see Ashi floating in nothingness.
>Close to the her face while her eyes open slowly.
>"I'll be waiting... Jack"

>WACHA!

>>92634416
Aku destroying the portal and Jack killing the goats was what broke him.

Saying that he was already broken is headcanon.

>>92634376
Those "shitty centuries" are full of people who are now chilling in the afterlife. People are suffering in the future, but now they don't even get to enjoy the afterlife. You are a moron.

Jack had his chance to prevent those shitty centuries. He failed.

>>92634429
>muh metaphors

Is this some buzzword you made up because you literally have no argument?

>>92634467
>Jack had his chance to prevent those shitty centuries. He failed.

Clearly he didn't. Given he succeeds at the end.

>>92632225
The ending fucked me, I dunno if I'm a sperg or something but from the moment I realised she wasn't gonna make it I've got a tightness in my chest and have been anxious all the time. All I can think about is whether this wrong will be righted in a remake or another series or alternate ending. Maybe I'm too a caught up in it, maybe I identify too much with jack. God I miss Ashi

>>92634429
>We don't need build up. You thought it was this thing, well fuck you, we'll change it to that at the last moment.

>>92634487
No it's the favorite argument of futurefags

>You shouldn't try to change the past! You can live for the future!

Except "the past" is Jack's proper presence. The fact that he doesn't age is proof that he's not meant to be in the future in the first place.

>>92634303
You want the series to have ended with Jack committing seppuku?

>>92634453
You're right he was completely fine with the torturous weight of his quest before that happened.

Just kidding you're retarded. If Jack was fine before that happened he wouldn't have lashed out the way he did.

>>92634304
Calm down man all he's saying is that he got different things out of it compared to other people. That's not snobby at all.

>>92634512
wow yeah you're right having magic fix all your problems is such a satisfying ending

>>92634562
Magic started the series, and magic ended it. It's pottery.

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>Be told from the start Ashi was going to ruin the series
>Pointless Timeskip
>Destroy all the time portals for Ashi screentime
>Pointless episode showing hope in the future thanks to Jack
>Everything that would require the story to be change was handwaved away
>The ending is completely forgettable
>Ashi conveniently vanishes for a "Forced Bittersweet"
>Tell people why Genndy is a HACK and why Season 5 was complete disappointment
> "WELL UH, YOU ARE JUST A RETARD WHO CAN'T ENJOY A WORK OF ART"


UNBELIEVABLE!!

>>92634532
The show is about how Jack is selfless, not selfish. Just because he belongs in the past doesn't mean he would go back by sacrificing the existence of his friends. It's out of character and poor writing, and you have no argument.

>>92634578
None of this is true.

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I feel that, leaving aside the necessity of a bittersweet dick kick, the ending has two serious weaknesses.

1.) There is no closure to the people of the future, we don't get to see Jack react to their fates and they're never revealed. We KNOW Jack cares about these people, so not including his reaction or musings is a big mistake. I suspect that Ashi's doom was intended to stand for all, but that doesn't quite work. For one, Ashi is more like Jack - a permanent stranger shaped for war. Heck, it's part of why they make a believable pair. Further, Ashi's doom was explicitly unique to her, she's the only one for whom Aku is a 100% guaranteed lynchpin.

2.) The Ashi/Jack relationship gets weak closure. It's almost like she got hit by a car, they never get to say farewell or reaffirm their love. It makes the death seem much more desolate, and makes Jack's spot of hope at the end seem a lot paler.

>>92634267
There's a lot of effort being put into explaining "time paradox logic" for when Ashi would have disappeared and such, but I don't know how much validity that can be given.

Poetically, I feel like she needed to disappear after we were able to see how beautiful the new past was.

>>92634514
She's the first and last person we've seen make Jack really happy and hopeful.

>>92633009
Guardian was dead in ep 9

Glasses on floor portal destroyed

>>92634632
I feel like that's fair enough.

I would have liked a bit more time, maybe an hour-long special like people are saying, for this finale.

>>92634514
In what way did it fuck you?
Did you find it tragic and bittersweet, or needlessly cruel/pointless?

>>92632225
I fucking cant get over her dying

Watching eps 4-5 are fucking painful now; seeing her experience life for the first time...

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>>92634801
Agreed.
I've started a rewatch of the season, and it's giving me a bit more appreciation for the ending.

>>92632225
I'd like more people could see the ending as you see. For my part, i loved the finale.

>>92634801
Yeah, I did a rewatch of some parts for some images and honestly it felt like shit to watch them play off of each other and know what was in store.

Can't imagine how e8 or 9 will feel now. Or 6, even.

>>92634856
I dunno, I just feel empty.

>>92634856
>Even in the bowels of the darkest of creatures, there is beautiful light
>Applying this directly to when Jack tries to pull Ashi from Akus black essence

Seeing the part where they ride the sea serpent again and the sun/moon story brought up teary eyes for me

>>92634754
I will explain later as I'm at work, it's perhaps the most grim ending I've seen

>>92634578
Shaggyfag is right, yet again. Listen to this man, /co/.

I think it's interesting to watch the live reacts to this ep. The arc is consistent. Anxiety, then cheering at the classic intro, back to anxiety, sheer joy at seeing the world rise up...I mean, you had shouts, fistpumps, a person or two jumping at a favorite character. People adored the Scotsman's arrival, and generally seemed to enjoy his last meeting with Jack, plenty of laughs. Jack's declaration of love passed muster, seems the chicks dug it more. Going back was met with shock, then joy, then sunny contentment at the wedding with one or two people wary...and then the bottom drops out, Ashi dies, and you see most people just hollowed out and speechless, some even tearing up.

Genndy said he wanted people to feel love, but it seems a sense of defeat won the day.

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>Did I ever tell you about Samurai Jack? He destroyed an entire timeline of people, erasing those who trusted in him and followed him, billions of lives and experiences lost forever in his selfish quest to get his parents back who had been dead for hundreds of years. And he did not feel a single bit of remorse for any of them, only for his girlfriend though.
>And he was the good guy.
What did he mean by this?

I love that people say that all the people in the future are Jack's friends. He saved them then leaves. He may like them but in no way are they his friends

>>92635079
The fact that people were content with Jack changing the future, but not with losing Ashi, shows just how fucked up the modern world is.

>>92635119
What about that retarded beast that wouldn't stop following him that only appeared in one episode?

>>92635119
Wrong.

>>92634536
Jack had other friends that could have shown up. Hell, have the Scotsman's ghost show up and fight the samurai ghosts or something.

>>92634933
>>92634856
>>92634801
I feel like this is a season that would benefit from a rewatch to help things stew.

Anyone else tuning in for the marathon next week?

>>92635178
>We could have had a ghost fight if Genndy didn't shoehorn his shitty waifu in
Fuck. Did the Scotsman even do any fighting outside of "muh Celtic magic" bagpipes?

>>92635220
I am

I want to enjoy it with you guys one last time and well as flush it out of my system so I stop being depressed about it

But I have this pipedream that we get some kind of new content. Whether its an announcment of a spinoff, prequel/sequel, or rather just an extra scene before or after the final credits...

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>>92632225
I loved how Aku was ultimately defeated.

After ending all their fights by flying or scurrying away with his powers, he's finally rendered impotent by having them turned against him and then used to send back Jack to the moment he was simultaneously the most victorious and the most vulnerable. A complete and utter defeat.

If I wanted to look at pretty pictures I would go to /wg/, SJ is great on it's visuals but those are just a resource to tell a story, and if you fail at that then no amount of pretty art is going to save it

I mean Aku was killed in 3 minutes and they ripped off TTGL, it wasn't even mediocre, it was shit

>>92634888
I don't know if everything about my way of seeing it was how it was intended it to be seen (I'd like to think it is, though) and I don't know if it necessarily forgives the faults people find with it, but that's just how the ending impacted me.

I found it beautiful. Glad you liked it too.

>>92634632
These are excellent complaints. If only the finale had been longer.

The final shot was enough to satisfy me personally though.

>>92635381
>you can't tell a story through pictures

hate the ending all you want but your underlying logic is retarded especially for this show. samurai jack was all about silent wandering and visual experiences. in this case it's not a resource to tell a story it IS the story.

>>92635494
Storytelling through pictures still counts as writing, I don't mean literal writing, I mean it as a script kind of thing.

>>92635377
I'm becoming increasingly aware of just how polarizing every scene of this finale is--scenes that are considered rushed and incompetent by some are considered poetic by others.

Also I require more adorable art.

>>92635129
I think they expected the future to be explained. I saw a lot of people go "but what about his friends," some of them even during the portal sequence.

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>>92635605
Fine.

>>92635472
How did this fucking trash satisfy you

>>92635303
I'm watching for more or less the same reason you are, and to see it whole.

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>>92634304
I feel you anon. I guess all I was saying is that so many things were beautiful about it to me that I overlooked the rest, and saw every wuirk as just a contribution to the theme as a whole.
i.e.: the ending felt 'rushed' because it's all stuff we saw in sessons 1-4. The focus is on the emotional struggle rather than the physical. Which we were presented with, visually. The ideas were laid out before us even if only briefly because they're simple to relate to and empathize with. Stuff like that.

>>92635646
>bringing everyone from the past. i don't think she can do that. plus, I am not sure how well they would take to never ages. Sure many would be pleased at the idea, but I am sure most kids would be pissed off after a few years.

>>92635646
I don't understand what this comic is saying. At all.

>>92632225
Watching your waifu cease to exist and never exist is a fate worse than having your dick sliced off with a red hot knife then your balls dipped in battery acid thats ignited.

>>92635646
Do people think want was sent like 20 years into the future or what.
Why does everyone forget about the thousands of years aku has been killing and torturing people

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>>92635695
Sorry.

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>>92635377
I wish we'd gotten a nose rub.

I think part of why people are taking Ashi so hard was because they made for a good, funny duo. I wish we had gotten more chances to see them fight side by side.

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>>92635605

>>92633030
I think that anon was trying to say that despite being ruled by an evil dictator, people of the future still could live relatively comfortable lives.

>>92635736
>those socks

wew

>>92635754
You have to understand that the only reason Aku let hopes and better days thrives was precisely because he got most of his enjoyment out of squashing them.

>>92635743
This is in character for those two.

>>92635754
But that's not remotely true.

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>>92632225
I feel like the new season kept on ruining its own ideas. What was the point of the beard if we weren't going to get a badass scene of Jack shaving it himself? What was the point of the 50 year timeskip if it didn't actually change the stakes of the series and got resolved in such an anticlimactic way? What was the point of Jack going crazy when that subplot was so easily resolved? What was the point of Ashi getting mindcontrolled if it was easily resolved as "I love you"? What was the point of Ashi at all if she was just going to die in the end?

I actually like the idea of Ashi as a character and as a love interest but I think she was handled poorly as fuck. The coolest thing about her was that she wasn't completely useless, in fact, she was strong as fuck and her protecting Jack while he meditated was the coolest thing she did in the series. That being said, I thought it was lazy as fuck to take all her agency for the sake of the most basic bitch plot contrivance of all time. How many goddamned times am I going to have to watch a character struggle for control over their own body? It's boring as shit, especially when you know it's obviously not going to last. It's a waste of fucking time is what it is. If the thesis of the new season was that Jack couldn't make this journey on his own, then a better way of incorporating that into the plot would be to have Jack and Ashi fight the Guardian (he's taken on entire armies by himself, I'm sure he'd be fine with just two people) they beat him and either go in the time portal and fight Aku in the past, or Aku destroys it and they fight him in the future. Either way, the fact that Jack and Aku didn't get a proper final showdown is the biggest betrayal of the season.

>>92635794
Then explain the family jack visited in that episode he was looking for new shoes?
They were a fucking normal happy family with japanese values jack could relate to.

>>92635794
There are tons of normal townspeople or city folk Jack interacts with throughout the entire series, and everyone who he saved are living happy, fulfilling lives.

So yeah, it is true, sorry.

>>92635840
Who probably lived in fear of Aku and/or his minions practically every waking moment. Do you not remember the shithole of a city they lived in?

>>92635742
I'm a bit conflicted on wanting to see more of certain things.
I'm a sucker for this pairing, and certainly wouldn't object to some cute moments. But at the same time, doing so would add unnecessary filler for something that was already established.

>>92635837
What ever happened to a good old fashioned happy ending? Fuck, that was the one thing that Ashi could have brought to the series and they still fucked it up. Not everything needs to have this bullshit bait and switch "bittersweet" ending, least of all Samurai Jack. This nigga's already gone through hell and highwater, the least you can do is give him some pussy.

>>92635869
No, not really.
You think Brazillians do not have moments of happiness despite living in a shithole country with lots of political corruption and crime?
People under aku were shown to go on with their lives and live quite normally. Sorry but you're
*leans into mic*
Wrooooooooooooong

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>>92632225
"visual storytelling" is no excuse for a illogical story;

How the hell did Jack's friends even got to Aku's tower in less than 2 minutes?

Why wait Exactly for the wedding to disappear?

Did Jack actually got back to the past? because that would cause a paradox.

>>92635901
You can't compare real-world corruption and crime to Aku's reign, man. It's worse than any real-world analogy actually, worse than the most war-torn shithole you can think of.

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>>92635927
>worse than the most war-torn shithole you can think of.

I wonder how Jack would feel that his country is going to get nuked, and how there will by tyrants and dictators just like Aku all over the world in the future?

>>92635877

I think you could have had, say, one more ep in a longer season that centered around them feeling out their new relationship and Jack's fears about it, set to a thread of them fighting a major lieutenant of Aku to get the location of his castle. It's not just the dorky and funny interactions I'm after, but cool synchronized fighting, two styles playing together.

You can still have the scene at the Guardian's island next ep, with Jack lamenting that even fate seems to stand no chance against Aku, with Ashi reassuring him right ad Aku shows up.

>>92635927
Only in some parts of that world.
There were still teenagers partying and having fun at races.
They were still happy families with everyday problems.

>>92635794
>>92633132

>>92635881
Whatever happened to good endings? Now that's what I want to know. People keep saying they would've prefered a good ending but I bet it would've been even worse.

>>92633624
Even going back and getting erased would've worked had the characters themselves acknowledged and/or accepted it before it happens.

>>92635377
>>92635742
>>92635743
MORE
I MUST HAVE MORE

>>92633146
Aku just told everyone on the planet that Jack was trying to return to the past and undo the future, if they didn't already know.

>>92636025
That was clearly fan-service. The characters straight-up save they went to save Jack from getting killed.

>>92635981
The ending was going to be shit either way. Seriously, how fucking retarded do you have to be to try and fit the final battle into a single episode? That being said, if it's going to be shit regardless, it could have at least given the emotional catharsis of a happy ending.

Ashi wasn't fleshed out enough for me to care that she died.
It also doesn't help that the ending was pretty much exactly what I thought it was going to be. Like, seriously, how can you be so fucking predictable?

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>>92636000
I feel like Ashi knew what would happen when she sent them back. Perhaps she wasn't sure when, but she knew.
In that sense, I think it was at least implied. Perhaps not conveyed as strongly as some would have liked, though.
If Jack knew, then not only would he not have been okay with going back to the past, but he wouldn't have defeated Aku if he knew it would mean Ashi's death. He's sacrificed his objective before for less.

>>92635960
Pretty sure that universe isn't going to develop exactly like the real world, Aku or no Aku.
>>92635974
It was all an illusion. Everyone had lived in fear.

>>92633132
>>92635976
It was a tiny shred of hope in a horrific world.

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>>92636154
>it was all an illusion

This is how far people are willing to defend this garbage writing. If that was the case why the fuck did they dedicate an entire episode showing hope in the future?

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>>92636012

>>92636222
>It was a tiny shred of hope in a horrific world.

And in any case, I would argue THAT episode was the mistake.

What people need to realize is that this "she knew and she did it for him, so romantic" bs is just a lame dodge from the authors.

What they're dodging is of course Jack getting to make a decision. They're dodging it because it would not be much of a dilemma, we all damn know what Jack would've picked given the circumstances and we can't have that.

Why can't we have that? Fuck knows, probably because some people are actually living under the illusion of this being serious art, not just a slightly more adult version of a cartoon we've all enjoyed.

So what we got is an (admittedly likable) plot device character taking Jack's ultimate choice away from him in an extremely half-assed manner, 99% of characters we knew and liked/disliked getting utterly erased from existence and the protagonist facing an eternity of suffering and virginity.

But he smiles cause a bug flew over to shit on his hand.

Muh symbolism.

>>92636090
I guess everyone got guard down after she said she was ok. That scene of the wedding, as some already said, is just tragic like a car crash or a heart attack.

>>92636154
If it was an illusion then Jack would have offed himself. They had an entire episode dedicated to showing that people could still be happy in the future that is Aku.
For fuck's sake

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>>92632225
>I felt that it was conveyed that Ashi suspected that she would die when killing Aku. Knowing this, she still went through with the plan, and in dying, she restored the world to the beauty and wonder that Jack once knew and believed that he would never see again. Making the world beautiful again as her last gift to him is something I found to be incredibly romantic. In that sense, I felt that it was genuinely bittersweet

Yeah, at some point they wanted an ending like that, and I admit I don't hate it. I realize there is a lot of butthurt on the net that the Guardian and the time portal he guarded didn't play a role in the ending as they were promised to, and I know some people here are hand waving that.
I have a question though:
Was this "bittersweet ending about love" worth making the SJ canon make no sense whatsoever? You could argue Aku changed the future by killing the guardian and smashing the portal, sure, that's what the show was conveying. HOWEVER, the people working on the show didn't take into account the fact that the time travel mechanics they also introduce to make that "bittersweet ending" don't make sense. The time portal/guardian didn't let Jack through because it wanted him to become badass/make a difference in the future/kill Aku(?) first. The only reason why the portal would want that is if that mattered. It didn't matter though, as we saw with Ashi vanishing. If Jack going back in time erased everything that happened in the future, why did it matter what he did first??? Why didn't the time portal just let him through if Jack, as he was, was more then good enough? Because nothing that happened in the future mattered apparently.

As much as I like this new ending, I don't think I can let go that guardian episode now not making any sense. And you can't hand wave that whole episode away, either, since they acknowledge it in the episode before the finale. It's somehow canon along with Ashi, even though both cannot make sense together?

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>>92636012

>>92636290
Do what now?

>>92636231
>tfw the white wolf takes down three alien tigers in its debut
>tfw some villains in this series are literally humanoid tigers
>then this happened
I think some writers really hate tiger for some reasons.

>>92632225
>And I feel that the scene at the end under the tree was really beautiful and captured the sentiment well, particularly being a callback to the scene where Jack first shows Ashi the lone tree in Aku's wasteland, except now surrounded by vibrant life instead of death.
This, this makes the ending for me. Once that ladybug comes enters the scene and what follows afterward really gives you that sweet feel to that (overwhelming) bitter. If not for that, I'd completely hate it.
I'd prefer if Ashi were to vanish the moment Aku died instead of that crew poor man's TTGL however. Easily worst part of the ending.

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>>92636306
>I don't think I can let go that guardian episode now not making any sense

It makes sense.

The Guardians says that no man can beat him apart from one specific individual. It opened the door for Jack to eventually become that man or for Aku (who is not a man, but a demon-alien-wizard-thing) to kill him in the interim.

>>92633460
The tree also looks like her ugly head

>>92632919
>How dare you save the world from millennia of suffering under a nigh omnipotent incarnation of evil!

Fucking retard

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>>92632897
One of them from Ultra Robots.

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>>92636306
> "hmm I know I had a different ending for samurai Jack, with a good message behind it but but I want to focus on Ashi and have a bittersweet ending no matter what"
>"Lets just kill off all the portals and the guardian and have ashi be the only means of travel"
>"Then have her die at her wedding day, and her final words will be explaining why she's vanishing"
>"Hmm but the audience may not care if she dies, better have the entire season be about her instead"

BRAVO GENNDY

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>>92636012
I was happy with the influx of good, cute art we got so quickly after episode 8.

Any good new ones after the last ep?

>>92636249
>the punishment for believing in hope is being erased from existence

http://www.strawpoll.me/13027207/
___

>>92636306
Yet again, you're forgetting the possibility that the portal just hasn't been used YET.

>>92636365
He didn't save shit, he ran away from the future. If he wanted to "save the world" he could've stayed in the future.

You are so retarded for not being able to grasp your head around simple concepts like this.>>92636382

>>92636354
>The Guardians says that no man can beat him apart from one specific individual. It opened the door for Jack to eventually become that man or for Aku (who is not a man, but a demon-alien-wizard-thing) to kill him in the interim.

You're missing the point. Why did the portal bar jack off from enterting if him going to past meant nothing in the future mattered? Why did it want jack to change first? The portal was pulling the string of the guardian, as we saw. It had a very clear agenda, but an agenda that now makes zero sense after we've seen that the future just gets erased instead of splintered off.

>>92636410
I have a feeling the original ending they planned allowed everyone to survive, which is why Jack needed to beat Aku in both the future and the past, because changing the past just caused the timeline to fracture, not separate. In other words, they were going the DBZ route with time travel. That's the only way the portal and the guardian make any sense.
But no, that's not "mature". We need edge/everyone dying and a romance.

>>92636544
How the fuck do you SEPARATE the timeline? What is this fanfic-tier nonsense?

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>>92636568
>What is this fanfic-tier nonsense?

You mean Season 5 was just a long shitty fan-fic? Having an established story plot not change and revolve around a newly introduced, half-demon girl who gets along with animals with deity powers who happens to be the main characters love interest is shit straight out of deviantart.

But I guess Genndy gets a pass because he's the "Creator" even though he completely dropped the ball on his own series.

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>>92634801
We'll always have this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEzuBgeiSnk

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>>92636568
>How the fuck do you SEPARATE the timeline?
That's how time travel is theorized to actually work, should it ever exist. One of the biggest reasons for that is it would eliminate paradoxes.

>You go back in time to stop yourself from being born
That means you would "fade away" like in Back to the Future/Samurai Jack, right? Well then, how do you explain how your birth was stopped? You would have had to have been born first to stop it, hence the paradox.
The solution to this is you cannot actually change the future. You can stop your own birth, and even go back to your future as if nothing happened, but now you also made a different timeline/world where you were never born, starting from that moment. That eliminates the paradox.

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>>92636432

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>>92632897

>>92636544
>Why did it want jack to change first?

Presumably so he'd be fast and strong enough to gut Past/Present Aku without him either escaping or pulling out another bullshit superpower at the last minute.

Also, why hasn't anyone ever argued about why there are so many time portals?

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>>92636924
I think they would have been good parents.

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>>92636924
This pic stings so much.
I can't bring myself to watch this season ever again

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>>92636432

>>92637095
>that pic
Please don't

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>>92636231
God I loved this

>>92636432
There's a lot of sad ones and some melancholy ones. I think these two just had good and humorous chemistry, and that encouraged artists. Shit, fucking ZONE went vanilla for it.

>>92636689
I can't even listen to it now knowing what happens.

>>92637335
>we'll never get a sweet, tender flash of them making love to Everybody Loves Somebody

>>92637450
I think it hit harder because I was all but certain Jack and her story would end happily.

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>>92636924
If only their final moment together was this touching rather than exposition.

>>92633526
I don't know why this doesn't have more replies, it perfectly encapsulates why alot of people are so pissed off. especially
>I don't think Ashi NEEDED to make a sacrifice, narratively, for the ending to work
Ashi dying was a needlessly cruel fuck you to fans who cared about her, especially because of the bait and switch style in which it was done.

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>>92636689
I still love this.

>>92632225
>And I feel that the scene at the end under the tree was really beautiful and captured the sentiment well, particularly being a callback to the scene where Jack first shows Ashi the lone tree in Aku's wasteland, except now surrounded by vibrant life instead of death.
That final scene was perfect. You can say whatever you want about the rest, but that walk through the mist was a perfect visual representation of Jack's feelings and it didn't need any dialogue. I wouldn't have minded that right after that final shot with Jack and Ashi hugging after killing Aku nobody had said a wrod.

>>92637373
This, everything positive about the season is now completely tainted for me knowing that the character I most wanted a happy ending for suffers a worse fate than literally anyone in the entire Samurai Jack universe

>>92637775
At least he gets to admire the beauty of the world Ashi would've wanted. That's the touching part of the ending.

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>>92637690
Rewatching it while showing it to my sis for her first watch through.
Really renewed my love for Ashi's character evolution.

>>92637815
That's just not enough for me honestly. Sure he can find hope after she's gone, but since she was denied even a spot in the afterlife after all her effort and suffering, it just feels more bitter than sweet.

>>92632225
So as young Jack got sent to the future, moments later, old Jack came back to his original timeline with Ashi to finish off old Aku?

so what happens to young Jack and the future timeline?

Does he end up in a futuristic setting without Aku?

>>92637880
I think that's fair. To me, the beauty of it is that throughout her life, even at the points she had to redefine her life's purpose, she always yearned for the beauty and restoration of nature even as a young girl. Tragically, that beauty is something that couldn't exist as long as Aku does, but she makes it happen, and I think it's conveyed that it's something she would have wanted.

>>92632225

>>92632225
>many years later
>Samurai Jack 20 year anniversary or something
>special comic is released
>it's literally Samurai Jack's Realta Nua
>Narrator states that Jack is dying in his old age. He has become a benevolent Emperor (and looks what he did when the Guardian prophesized) but never married for his heart is ever searching for something that can never be fulfilled in all lifetimes of humanity. As he passes into death, he recalls a memory in which he is told that if Ashi can wait forever, and if Jack can look for her forever, they will meet restored at their prime in a place beyond life and death, beyond time and space. But is told that it is impossible. Jack dies and his soul searches for Ashi for all eternity, a task greater than him trying to find a time portal in his youth. But Samurai Jack defies even eternity, and in a place only their hearts cherished beyond time and space, Jack and Ashi meets again under the lone tree with the red leaves under clear blue dauntless skies.
>I'm back.

>>92633487
How old was the Scotsman and how far into the future did Jack travel?

>>92637880
I wouldn't go that far. Jack's mysticism is based mostly in eastern ideas, where reincarnation and fateful ties are a big thing. It seems very unlikely to me that Aku was at all essential to her soul, especially considering that Ashi kept living after Aku's departure from her being.

Of course, we can't know for sure until someone like Genndy or Phil or Tara weigh in, but the lone ladybug at a fateful tree when Jack was there seems a heavy hint that she's still watching Jack's back.

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>>92632225
I liked the ending well enough...
If it had been any random movie about a guy wanting to get back to his past and deal the death blow he was denied nobody would have batted an eye.
But yeah, when you alter a timeline you wipe everyone in the original timeline from existence. Altering the past is apparently inherently evil.

But I really always thought the series would end with Jack killing Aku in the future.
He always JUST missed the portals.
He saved so many lives.
He met so many people and gained much wisdom.
In the end he (and the viewers) would have learned the important lesson that you can't change the past, but you can fight for a better future.

Also I haven't encountered anyone addressing this:

>AKUUU! I have come to rid the world of you!
>Saaamurai JACK! Has it already been 10.000 years?
Opens new time portal sending Jack once more into the grim darkness of the far future
>See you again in another 10.000 years JACK! Waaa ha ha ha ha!

>>92637919
It's the same Jack, since we're going by linear-time logic and not split-timeline logic.
It's a bit confusing the way it was conveyed, but they needed to show the original fight and time traveling. Young Jack is sent to the future, then the entirety of the series happens, then he returns to the moment he was sent from to finish the job.

>>92637978
>that beauty is something that couldn't exist as long as Aku does
That's just not true, and is acknowledged in this season to Ashi multiple times.
>cave of bioluminescent creatures inside the great beast
>the village of the archers
>the rave
>the oasis
>the enormous camel-bus thing that she even is awestruck by
And that was all with Aku being alive in the future, they absolutely could have rebuilt any of the destroyed beauty using the resources at hand.

>>92636483
Yeah my head canon is that Jack will search the world for the portal once more and try and get Ashi back. Perhaps even undoing his slaying of aku and just returning to make the future a better place

>>92634172
>Everyone just assuming Jack doesn't believe they will just be reborn in a better world

>>92638209
Nice fan-fiction.

>>92638077
Yeah. Jack's pessimism is directly contrasted against Ashi's determined, goal-oriented, hopeful thinking, and ultimately it's that that brings Jack back around to his normal self.

I dont get how people dont understand Jacks quest. I wanted him to stay in the future too, but I get wanting to undo thar future, even if I was apart of it. They lived under an unspeakable evil, and a world without that was worth giving up everything for. I think many of the characters who helped Jack in the end understood that their future may not exist, that they may not exist, but that an existance without Aku was one worth fighting for reguardless.

There was no way he could have ended the series and made everyone satisfied, but even if you outright hated it what good is your bitching doing? Go write your own show.

>>92632225
Can we all just agree that given the logic of the time travelling either Ashi should still exist or killing Aku results in the undoing of the future meaning jack can't travel back and therefore Aku still does exist?

>>92634467
>are full of people who are now chilling in the afterlife.
Going by this logic , Jack should let Aku reign, cause when he eventually just kills everyone out of frustration at least they'll be chilling in the afterlife

Yea, some other anon posted this earlier

>What makes the last scene pretty fucking sad but very touching and heartwarming is that Jack touching the ladybug again makes him realize a small truth. Not something that can make the pain go away but something that helps him heal.. Is that he remembered Ashi valued life and life's beauty in nature. And as he waves off the ladybug he sees the sun melt the fog and illuminate the valley of trees. Beautiful, and as real as he described them to Ashi, who imagined a reality so pure and bliss when she envisioned it in ep.5. And its the very same valley he took her too to see the one tree Aku left as a sign of his destruction.

>He stands underneath it and realizes this is truly a world Ashi would have wanted to live in. Something she never had growing up in a life of pain and abuse and misery. A life dedicated to killing him. And sure enough, she ended up saving him instead. Because he saved hers. She was doomed from birth and yet he broke through to her and showed her a whole new reality. One of love and freedom. See it as living on borrowed time if you will. But she would have given her life for his because of this. For this reality Jack sought all those years.

>And that gives him peace

>>92634562
He literally has a magic sword that can kill the main villain through the whole series

A much better ending would be Ash still existing or the 3 Gods allowing her to remain and reviving her and then it ends with Ashi and Jack under the tree which was the only one that ended up remaining in the future with two/three little kids and Ashi smiling at her daughter as a ladybird (ladybug) lands on her hand showing that despite her own upbringing she's a good mother and love and good is wholly restored to the world.

>>92634585
>It's selfish to prevent centuries of suffering.
>It's selfless to allow those centuries of suffering to happen because you want to hang out with your friends.

>>92638333
Shh, don't bother anon, futurefags don't want to listen.

>>92635086
Oh yeah, I'm sure the billions of people living eacefully in the future really hate him now

>>92632225
>REEEEEEE All the people Jack saved were erased from existance!!!

No, no, no, a million times, no.

They're not wiped from existance because Jack killed Aku. Everybody except for the Seven Daughters is alive, hell, even more people are alive because the Shogun of Shadow never got the chance to kill them.

Worst case scenario:
>Aliens like the Woolies and the Archers would still be stuck on their home planets
>Spartans would be regular Greek dudes (assuming this is our history, although apparently Robin Hood's Merrymen and pre-Islamic Egypt exist at the same time, so it may be different)
>The Scotsman would still be alive, but he's just some shirt-and-tie office drone with a mortgage and a Honda Civic instead of a Celtic Rune Sword.

I do wish it was longer, maybe two to three episodes, with more cameos like the Shaolin Monks, an alternate Samoorai who didn't become a bartender and the scientist who created the Ultra-Bots.

i wonder why they only gave him ten episodes to work with
the couple of episodes were great, then its like oh shit nigger i have 6 more episodes to wrap this shit up

>>92638247
> They lived under an unspeakable evil, and a world without that was worth giving up everything for

Objectively incorrect.
They dedicated an entire episode showing the future is still worth saving.

>I think many of the characters who helped Jack in the end understood that their future may not exist

I don't understand how this keeps going voer people's dense heads, that scene was purely fan service. The Spartans showing up, jump good man, all of that was fucking fan service AND they showed up to save jack from dying not to get wiped from existence. Do you even know what you are saying? this is some shitty writing you are trying to defend here.

Why the fuck would you show the future is worth saving, have all these characters you inspired hope into and then poof nvm. If the Future was so grim and terrible they did a terrible fucking job at it.

And lets not forget even in Jack's normal time, its not a paradise some of you are trying to make it seem like, there's a whole scene with Assassins trying to kill Jack' father.

>>92638478

>The Scotsman would still be alive, but he's just some shirt-and-tie office drone with a mortgage and a Honda Civic instead of a Celtic Rune Sword.


>the Scotsman in a minivan filled with his daughters screaming insults at a bad driver in front of him

Okay, that's a beautiful visual.

>>92638478
Nice Fan fiction.

>>92638521
This is a third person here, but I don't think there IS a correct answer here.

Your choices are between prevent the suffering, torture, terror, and slavery of billions...

...or preserve the lives of countless other billions, who all have their own hopes, dreams, fears, and loves.

That's a horrifying choice to have to make with an in-setting level of knowledge, because neither answer is wrong but choosing either is unpalatable as hell.

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>>92632225
>>92632795

While the show is beyond critique in visual department, it is still a story, and as such it needs narrative coherence and proper pacing for all the actions, emotions and words of the plot to register with the audience.

Ending as it is, is only a pinnacle but also the most glaring of all the problems that the final episode has, hence it comes to represent the majority of complaints both about the finale itself but also about Ashi and Jack and the timeline.

Bittersweet emotions are a difficult thing to achieve, as they bank on audience understanding the good within and beyond the loss sustained - problem is, the ending fails to deliver both at the same time to mix them and it commits itself to a misstep in delivery that REPLACES joy with loss, only to follow it up with implied inner peace that audience fails to achieve through failure in timing and failure in proportioning it directly.

The end that comes about from loss of all of Jack's friends and companions and ultimate erasure of the future is offset with personal happiness that comes from having his home and Ashi back - bittersweet is already present here and flows naturally in pieces coming one after another - the hero is changed through his journey and the world as well, having felt the impact of the adventure. The ending is then derailed by moving the emotional center away from the world around Jack and turning it into a personal tragedy, that undermines the impact of all the relations and events prior to it, making it seem like the whole endeavor was a selfish journey.

Overall, people are right in saying that Ashi's presence skewed the story, but in a positive way. That turned sour as her "death" drove home the point of it being very personal but in a crude way that overplayed Jack's emotional conflict in face of what was supposed to be a closure of his emotional journey - by giving him the one missing element of his live that he yearned to experience, which was love.

>>92632225
I liked the ending too, OP, not everyone on /co/ or online hates the ending. The butthurt people are just the loudest.

I wanted Jack to get back to the past and fulfill his destiny, and he did.

>>92638537
Saying they all never existed and never went to heaven and Jack is worse than Hitler is also fan ficiton.

>>92638247
Yeah, agreed about the self-sacrifice thing.
>>92638521
The future is objectively much worse, though. Even with Aku apathetic and not committing genocide, he's still passively causing immense suffering by inviting intergalactic criminals to displace peaceful inhabitants.
Jack's crisis was about fearing he could no longer make a difference, since the good he was doing was comparable to a few drops in an ocean of bad.

>>92633481
>Well, there's the fact that Aku is terrified and hides and runs away from him even in the future.
They literally could end the fight right there and then. Why keeping your best strategy for last?

>>92638521
>If the Future was so grim and terrible they did a terrible fucking job at it.
>But it's occupied
>Is that a problem?
>No

>>92633552
>Her entire character development could have been done in a single episode
Seriously? We've had anons complaining for weeks about how Ashi wanting to help Jack was forced and rushed and you think they could have pull her entire development off in one episode? I enjoy being optimistic, but there's a limit anon.

>>92638627
Jack undo the future that is Aku. If Ashi disappeared because of Aku, then it's safe to assume that everyone else that was in the "FUTURE THAT IS AKU" has vanished as well since they wouldn't exist if Aku was killed in the past. You people saying "WELL THEY WENT TO HEAVAN" and bitch at others "fan-fiction" are no better since you are doing the same shit.

>>92638648
>The future is objectively much worse, though.

Yet, they kept showing the future was worth saving and how they was beauty in it, did you not watch the show?

>>92638648
Yeah. You get the starkest example of Jack's hopelessness in E5, when Ashi accepts that she has been deceived and then immediately goes "okay, what do we do?" This was how old Jack was, and to hear Jack of the present day go "nothing, it's a waste of time" is a really good example of just how far Jack has fallen.

>>92633403
Sure, that won't seem forced or stupid at all. I swear to God, your hate for her character makes some of you think like complete retards.

I hate OP's picture... the light sources are all over the place

>>92638730
>Yet, they kept showing the future was worth saving and how they was beauty in it, did you not watch the show?
Yeah, and you know what else has MORE beauty in it?
A world that never had Aku I'm the first place.

>>92634266
I somehow one man could undo all the fuckery Aku did to the Earth over several thousands of years. Or do you think just because you overthrow the bad king all the problems go away with him?

So most of you people would be fucking alright to completely vanish if someone would go back to the past and kill Hitler?

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>>92638854

>>92638854
>>92638880
Fuck you

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>>92638880

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>>92638907
>>92638898
What time?

>>92638796
And this is the exact point that keeps going over head because you're a stupid fanboy.

The Writing is shit.
They showed beauty in world, even in the future and how life would find a way. Why would you, as a writer add this in and then take it away for some forced bittersweet ending? Do you not understand the context it was trying to portray here? Alot of you are like "WELL IT DOESN'T"T MATTER BECAUSE JACK GOT BACK TO THE PAST TRALALAL IM NOT LISTENING TO ANY CRITICISM"

Hell they even HAD a opportunity to show a TERRIBLE World in the 50 year time skip and they fucked up even that!

>>92638880
Is Rick just the easiest character to write fore because it feels like everyone can do it.

>>92638842
None of us would vanish. Either the Nazi Reich would still happen and the leader would be Hans Gooberstein or whatever, or we'd have a lot more Jewish neighbors and Jew jokes would be less off-color.

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>>92632225
The ending itself was fine, but it was paced like shit.

It went from "aku is dead lol," to "jack's getting married," to "ashi is dead lol," and finally "lol i'm over it" in like 4 minutes. It was undeniably rushed.

The episode should have been an hour long, or split into two episodes.

>>92639163
Or maybe it should've committed itself to its set-pieces and play them out properly - fight with Aku in the future, fight with Aku in the past, happy ever after.
You don't get bittersweet from a character that vanishes into thin air in the middle of a wedding. It's just hollow.

>>92634754
>In what way did it fuck you

What hope is there left in Jacks life with that abortion of an ending?
It reinforces the theme that their is nothing left for Jack to look forward to. Ironically,hope doesn't exist in this Aku free world.
A fucking ladybug doesn't represent hope if you've erased your countless friends and the love of your life from existence, and they dont even have the privilege of an afterlife.

A bittersweet ending should be the culmination of a cathartic journey.
Only problem is everything he accomplished on his journey actually never mattered, he could have just as easily Jimmy Savilled everybody for 50 years and then gone ''ok lol lets kill Aku now'' and everything would ultimately be A ok

Where is Jacks emotional rejuvenation from this ending?
If he were to have matured or grown in any way as a human, his goals would have shifted from getting back the past to fixing the future for the friends he saved and who saved him.

Where are the emotions he showed us he has?
Oh that's right, the only conduit for his human emotions evaporated and he has returned to being a stoic, monk-like character.

Fuck this post modern shitty ass attempt at an artsy ending

>>92638928
Will there be the foolish samurai warrior, Ashi and Rick in Injustice 3?
Cool!

>>92638935
>Hell they even HAD a opportunity to show a TERRIBLE World in the 50 year time skip and they fucked up even that!
>Literally has Jack wander through destroyed and slaughtered village, one after another, shows that a system has been set up where murderers and monsters are sent to casually salughter Innocents, actual giant monsters now take up a good chunk of the world.
>All this with Aku not even being around anymore giving orders

The future was fucked to the core, even with Aku dead the best Jack could hope to do is commit a systematic genocide of every government official or system Aku ever ever put in place.

Aku fucked the future SO hard he literally didn't have to even do anything. Sure, there's some good, but the show also pointed out heavily that some things are just never going to get better.

>>92632225
The ending should have just been Scotsman and everyone who probably survived realizing long ago that they shouldn't even exist because Aku was an evil entity that unfairly ruined the world. With that Jack could of went back in the past depressed and saddened about the outcome but at least had everyone's blessings.

But instead of a tragic yet sensible conclusion I got romantic drama up the ass. 13 years of hiatus just for Genndy to fuck it up by writing with his dick.

>>92639247
Yet the future world was not devoid of beauty.

So your idea of good writing is:

>lol fuck fighting for the tiny bit of good in the future lets just press delete and time travel XD

>Everyone that Jack helped was supposed to know Jack wants to go back and bascially erase their life
>they all have children after the 50 year time skip

???

>>92639247
>the show also pointed out heavily that some things are just never going to get better.

That is completely false. They showed the Future was shit because of Aku, but there was some beauty still in it. They dedicated an entire fucking episode to that point.

>>92639533
Show fails to establish whether we are following linear timeline or multiversal, and if linear, whether any of the Shinto stuff about constancy of souls and events applies either.
On top of it, Jack is still around while Ashi disappears, both conflicting with each other over violation or upholding of causality.

tl;dr, ending doesn't make sense, it was done for emotional reaction and it fails.

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>What should we name them, samurai?

Heres my fan theory concerning Ashi not disappearing at once:

Only a portion of Aku was dropped on earth. the rest was being killed off by the gods
Its possible that ashi survived as long as she did because the gods hadn't yet killed all the parts of aku. If that was the case, then she would still be alive until the last spark was killed... or Genndy is a hack writer and we just wasted years of our life on a cartoon.

>>92639623
This.

Would it not have been much more effective to

> show the destroyed grove where that one tree still stood gradually springing back into life once Aku was killed in the future?

>Jack and Ashi with babe in arms standing there admiring its beauty while scotsman flies overhead playing his bagpipes.

>The trail from his magic bagpipes spells out 'The End?' across the skyline

Wacha!

I don't care about Ashi. I cared about Jack and Aku.

>>92639772
no because Aku dying implies Ashi dies too. There is no winning that argument

>>92639733
>Nothing
>Null
>Nonexistence
>Void
>MissingNo

>>92639795
No Ashi only dies because that one woman didn't swallow Aku's black cum