Does Marvel have a Watchmen trump card?

They have basically shit on all their "big" things that mattered in the industry already. Sales-wise a Star Wars crossover could help them, but that's about it.

>>92608458
Also they could get over themselves and also tie into Rebirth if they wanted I guess. DC is generally open to cross-company deals. They do one or two every year.

>>92608458
>Sales-wise a Star Wars crossover could help them, but that's about it.

Anon, please. That would imply that Marvel has enough creative talent to make it work.

>>92608458
Marvel Comics proudly presents this summer's blockbuster event "Star Marvel", where it's revealed that Star Wars is the real far flung future of the Marvel Universe when Ben "The Thing" Grimm is transported into the future to join Darth Vader in conquering the galaxy. Can our most beloved heroes Riri and Moon Girl follow him and join forces with Rey and her gay friends Poe and Finn before it's too late?

>>92608398
They've got Miracleman. I guess Star Wars but that's not going to happen.

>>92608514
It wouldn't need to be particularly good. SW comics just sell a shitload in general.

>>92608520
>future
Dude

I'm kind of glad they don't.
I like Watchmen but the effect its had on the genre is not great. Too many copycats looked at the deconstruction, went "that's sick bro!" and turned it into the new normal.

The Dark Knight Returns is the same way.

>>92608490
That's impossible now. Bob Harras and Joe Quesada burned their bridges when they left. Marvel and DC's cross-company stuff they used to do at conventions aren't happening anymore, like baseball games, banter, things like that.

Mind you, this was probably because, during the 90s/early 2000s, both companies shared creative talent. Now it feels like content creators are just as MUH COMPANY WARS as the fans.

>>92608540
>Miracleman
Anon please. They fucking lost money republishing Miracleman. Even Flashpoint is bigger than Miracleman.

>>92608540
I feel like Miracleman is well written but not something that would cause hype like Watchmen has.

>>92608573
Johns could fix it. I believe in him.

>>92608514
For almost thirty years now talent has not mattered at Marvel. Everything they sell is through name recognition and shock value.

This is the company that was so shameless they literally made a "Civil War 2" in order to cash-in on a movie. There will almost certainly be an "Infinity ____" event for that movie, too.

There's gonna be a Star Wars crossover next year headed by Jason Aaron, screencap this. I wouldn't even be surprised if it wasn't literally revealed by Marvel Legacy ending with Iron Man working in Stark Tower when he suddenly finds Darth Vader's glove or some shit. And then you get a big splash page of a red lightsaber flashing. That's how utterly without shame Marvel is.

>>92608573
Isn't that more on the Marvel side? Does Marvel still give people who sign exclusive contracts preferential treatment (not minis) while DC doesn't care.

>>92608606
He could, him amd Bendis have lunch on ocassions when Johns is not busy, and everyone at Marvel likes him.

>>92608514
>That would imply that Marvel has enough creative talent to make it work.
No it wouldn't. It doesn't have to work to happen.

Triumph and Torment

>>92608810
Literally no one cares.

>>92608710
Yeah, from what I gathered, it was Marvel who tried to make a game of how returned comics have to have their covers torn off to prevent them being resold.

I recall them attempting to incentivize getting variants by making LCSs de-cover Blackest Night and Flashpoint comics.

It's mostly Marvel's refusal to not just bury a hatchet, but they also make a big show of building more hatchet factories until everyone's fucking sick of hatchets. So, in a nutshell, it's like how they continue to do their business. Pushing out characters, regurgitating events, creating controversy and expecting people to buy their shit out of spite.

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>>92608830
KILL yourself.

>>92608398
Probably not, but The Button was a pretty shitty story desu. Literally nothing happens. Even Thawne's death is invalidated by his own dialogue about being a paradox.

>>92608854
Only Doomfags desperate to show how the character is totally deep care. This makes, what, 15 people?

It's no Watchmen, or sure.

It's Marvel's own fault. They have no lasting stories that people actually care about. They have plenty of character designs and names that are iconic and very friendly to the casual audience. But their legacy doesn't come close to DC's.

>>92608680
Why do you people think Marvel is in charge of the fucking Star Wars IP? Everything they do is green lit by the lucasfilm story group. Marvel has zero control over it.

>>92608584
It...could. If he came in slaughtering Celestials and Galacticus.

>>92608398
If they adapted one of the unproduced CW arcs into a limited series, THAT would move some issues.

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>>92609018
>Galacticus

>>92608514
all they need to do is a shit comics where Mar Vell appears, then disappears and it ends with a glimpse of Vader's hand
nostalgifags are that easy to please

>>92609085
Mar-Vell fans and Dick Rider fans are things that only exist in your minds.

Time and time again they have proved that they don't sell at all.

>>92608398
You mean gimmick?

Marvel has being just about gimmicks for 15 yeara

>>92608563
Bullshit. Die casual.

>>92609014
It's going to happen, it won't be canon to either universe but it's going to sell like gangbuster.

Hell, base it off Patton Oswald's Parks and Rec thing

>>92608398
Yeah, they have Spider-man and the X-men and Captain America and a bunch of grat Kirby stuff-

And that's what is fucking sad as shit, they're going to get curb stomped by a story that would at any other time would have caused a huge shitstorm, but becuase of the very climate Marvel created, and they way they hog all the outrage, e.g., the Cap shitstorm, is going to end up selling like fucking crazy.
Genius fucking timing by DC. No shit.

>watchmen crossover
>has practically nothing to do with watchmen
what did dc mean by this

>>92608398
Yeah, they could send the teenage xmen back. Not, to establish a new world, just to get rid off em

>>92609387
"Buy the twelve issue miniseries that's coming out later, probably at 3.99 an issue"

>>92609440
It doesn't sound bad when fucking Mosaic is sold at 4.99 per issue.

>>92609014
What reason would they have to turn down their idea for a crossover? The comics already sell like hotcakes.

>>92608563
>>92609269
He's not wrong. Miller's Daredevil left a more positive impact. He's not calling them bad books. He's saying that writers took the darkness as inspiration when they shouldn't have.

>>92609465
nobody bought mosaic,
which means its actually 0.00 per issue

>>92609479
it would devalue the star wars IP

>>92609561
No it wouldn't.

>>92608889
>>92608830
Well """"meme'd"""", """""contrarian!"""""

>>92609492
They didn't. That's a fact. That didn't happened, the next two waves were the attitude/radical years and then cinematographic comics. TDKR and watchmen gave us animal man and sandman the idea comics went dark because of Moore and miller is a fiction.

>>92609617
"Triumph and Torment" is totally on the same tier as Watchmen. If you disagree, you're memeing.

Whatever you say.

>>92608553
I think that was on purpose considering it's CURRENT YEAR Marvel

>>92608540
The problem is most Marvel fans, and most casual readers, don't know about Miracleman so it wouldn't have the same emotional connection. The book went out of print for a long time and was only known by people actively searching for it, which wouldn't have been most of Marvel's readership. And when they finally reprinted the Moore and Gaiman runs at Marvel, the sales weren't that high (#7 onwards of Marvel's reprinting of Moore's run got less than 20,000 an issue), partly because there wasn't enough plugging for it, and there wasn't enough attempt to convince Marvel readers that it was an important book.

With Watchmen, most people who don't normally read comics are aware of Watchmen because of the film. On top of that, the book remained in print since the 80's so its readership (from just the comic-reading ones) gradually grew during that time.

>>92608398
We have a Kingdom Hearts

The F4, seeing as how Reed and his family are outside of the Multiverse rebuilding it, I would go with them.

>>92608520
I would actually love a Star Wars Fantastic Four crossover where Ben ends up Blackbearding himself into a major Star Wars character.

>>92608398
they have Miracleman but the problem is that it's too dense, too long and poorly collected for casuals to pick up. so a MM vs Marvel story would rustle the jimmies of fanboys who are already reading the books.

>>92610383
>they have Miracleman
It is like saying "they have Miles Morales".

Actually, Miles is more important and brings more readers than Miracleman.

>>92608573
>Marvel betas created all this bad blood because they couldn't stand up to DC Chads on the baseball field.

In the ultimate SJW move, Trump will literally be their trump card.
All heroes and villain, even crying Doom, fighting Trump.

>>92609014
'Member "The Great Unknown"? Ya know, the Star Wars/Indiana Jones crossover that is completely isolated from what both series consider their main canon? There's an entire Marvel multiverse out there full of crossovers isolated from Earth-616: New Avengers/Transformers, Avengers Vs. Attack on Titan and Eminem/Punisher.

>>92610383
>they have Miracleman but the problem is that it's too dense, too long and poorly collected for casuals to pick up.

It's not even that long or dense. Moore's run is like three issues more than Watchmen. Maybe the third arc would be "too dense" but it's no more dense than Watchmen. The first arc was more standard superhero arc (guy forgets he was a superhero then becomes a superhero again, finds out his former sidekick became a murderous asshole, fights and nearly gets beaten by him, then finds out his true origins with the help of a spy) and the second arc is not that hard to read.

Poorly collected might be the case because it didn't stay in print for a long time back in the 80's and 90's and Marvel didn't exactly promote their own reprints that much. It also didn't help that Moore wanted his name taken off of it, which means they can't advertise based on Moore's name the way DC could with Watchmen and the like.

>>92610419
I hate to say it, but that's kind of true. They're able to merchandise Miles. Miracleman/Marvelman isn't used for anything and despite how influential the Miracleman run was it isn't getting as much attention as it should because of the reasons mentioned above. It's also hard because most of the stuff that made it stand out in the 80's is now commonplace in comics in the 10's.

>a beloved and highly respected self-contained story
>that we technically own and can forcibly mesh with our own world for easy money

I'm glad Marvel doesn't have anything like that that they can fuck up. Star Wars has already been well and truly ruined.

>>92608398
>Does Marvel have a Watchmen trump card?

yeah

The Ultimates is doing like the exact same story line, only the cosmic jailer has been featured in more of the book than Manhattan because Ewing isn't playing cocktease while he puts off the story for another 9 months

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>>92608398
Marvel can't compete with this.

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>>92611983
>Ewing Ultimates is Marvel's equivalent of Watchmen
Yeah, yeah.

>>92611983
top kek
Nice b8 m8 I r8 it 8/10
Fuck Kekwing tho

>>92608540
>They've got Miracleman

Anon people who don't read comics know Watchmen while half the people who read comics don't know Miracleman. They have fuck all except Star Wars

>>92613795
I laugh IRL when I read that.

A fucking book that barely survives a couple of issues is Marvel's Trump Card "just like Watchmen".

>>92608398
>Fantastic Four
>Miracleman
>Star Wars