>someone adapting or adding to my story >reeee it has already

I think what Moore says is more about affirming his public persona than what he really believes.

>>92583648
>for what purpose

Hey, look, one of the butthurt Johns/Morrison fans from the Watchmen thread started his own!

>>92583194
Fuck you, Johnsfags are insecure cunts. Moore is right, savagers of others creativity are just pathetic. There's nothing original in rebirth. Before watchmen problem was that it was bad and shitty and lacked real talent, pax americana is fantastic, but rebirth it's just a stupid comercial gimmick

>>92583194
He didn't steal Ditko's characters. They're pastiches, sure, but capeshit is full off rip offs and the "creators" make a lot of money off of this. Stop acting like a faggot, I don't even like Watchmen much but Moore is in the right and DC is in the wrong. And Geoff Johns is a creatively bankrupt racoon.

>>92585162
Morrison has come out and said that adding to Watchmen is a stupid idea because it's a complete story.

>>92585222
lol heil hitler amirite XD I'm so edgy

>>92585262
DC You was horrible, Superman was nearly unreadable (and a BLM activist), Gordon was Batman in a robot rabbit suit.

DC Rebirth fixed that. I don't want originality if it is shit.

>>92585297
How is the lantern color corps wars any different than Moore taking Ditko's charliton characters (and he only made proxies because halfway through writing they told him he couldn't use the originals) to write watchmen?

>>92585162
Morrison and Johns way to approach things are extremely different, pax Americana it's pure creativity, a reinvention and experimented and pushed for even more than the original watchmen. Rebirth has Manhattan comparing his way to see the world with a puppet seeing his own strings and the 3x3 paneling... It's pathetic. Moore was wrong about blackest night, but Morrison didn't want to get involved in before watchmen, both Morrison and Moore share the same feeling that the industry is lazy and lacks creativity. There's no difference between civil war 2 and the button.

>>92585342
Look, if anything, I'm talking about Morrison fans, not Morrison. But it's not even that, I'm talking about the discussion that developed in the Watchmen thread, where some Johns and Morrison fans are butthurt that there's a bunch of people who agree with Moore so one of them started this to shit on Moore.

>>92585415
Bullshit, he didn't even wanted to use Charlton's that was dc's idea and came later, casual

>>92585396
That's a false dichotomy though.

>>92585489
Morrison fans side with moore, mandrak was a prediction of how Johns would act.

>>92585514
Why ?
I legit didn't see your point here.

>>92585415
Not talking about rainbow lanterns. Talking about Johns integrating Watchmen into the DCU and write a kind of sequel with them that he calls "the most personal thing I've ever written". Like it or not, Rorschach, Ozymandias and all those guys are Moore's characters just like how every rip off and Superman pastiche is someone's character.

>>92585585
I don't disagree that DCYou was shit, but that doesn't mean I want more regurgitated garbage from Johns.

>>92583194
Reminder that DC has tried more than several times to make amends for Alan Moore and he refused every time. All he wants to do is worship his retarded statue and bitch about Margaret Thatcher in the current years.

>>92583194
The problem isn't borrowing ideas, the problem is ownership.

When Moore writes Watchmen, or 1963, or Supreme, he doesn't claim ownership of Ditko's characters, or Kirby's characters, or Siegel and Shuster's characters.

When Moore writes From Hell, or Lost Girls, or LoEG, he doesn't claim ownership of Alice, or Jack the Ripper, or Captain Nemo.

He borrows characters, but he makes it clear that they aren't his. He makes it clear that his stories aren't the "true" stories, because those characters belong to someone else. It's just an imaginary story. Aren't they all?

In contrast, Marvel and DC don't borrow. DC and Marvel steal. They take ownership and control of ideas created by other people, and they restrict the creators' access to their own creations. This is why Moore criticizes them.

Is this fair? "They signed a contract", you might say. But remember, DC signed a contract with Moore, and then DC violated the contract to screw Moore over. And then DC suffered zero consequences for violating the contract. How is that fair?

>>92585622
Watchmen was an original take. Rebirth could have Krona or monarh as the bad guy and nothing would change. Only a retard would think that watchmen is about dispair or to blame for dark comics. Not only you need to be a casual for that but actually stupid ans really really young. Johns isn't that, rebirth uses Manhattan becouse WB asked for him, nothing more, it's not becouse lack of hope or any meta shit. For fucks sake Johns wrote Flashpoint, he has a long history of he dindu noffin, with Hal Jordan first, and now with Barry, if there's a meta in the story is just that Johns is blaming others for shit he was doing, him, Lee and didio are the father's of n52, the hired guns of the executives.

>>92583194
this could very easily be used for someone's /tg/ character.
He looks like he would be a nice Warlock or Wizard.

>>92585803
>Reminder that DC has tried more than several times to make amends
No they haven't.

After DC violated their contract with Moore, there's only one way to make amends: Give him the rights to Watchmen.

As long as they won't do that, they really aren't making any serious attempt.

>>92585875
I once spoke to him on the phone without even realising. He's very well spoken and polite. I always thought he'd sound like a nutter.

>>92585622
>Like it or not, Rorschach, Ozymandias and all those guys are Moore's characters

They are Ditko's characters, not fucking Moores. What about the league of extraordinary gentlemen? Are those Moore's characters?

>>92585921
In every video interview, he comes off as a very friendly and genial fellow.

This media narrative of him as a bitter angry sourpuss is pushed on us by two large corporations with large marketing budgets who have a vested interest in keeping the comics community unsympathetic to his causes.

>>92585875
I was right about to say that he looks like a tree

>>92586028
He is a fucking douche about Ditko.

>>92583194
Johnsfags should neck themselves

>>92585222
Moore includes rape in almost all of his stories he's hardly an sjw

>>92586004
>Ozymandias
>based on Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt
>created by Peter Morisi
Apologize for your ignorance and then shut up, you fucking casual.

When a character isn't in the public domain and Moore doesn't have a license to use it, then Moore doesn't use that character. He uses a pastiche of that character. The original belongs to the owner, but the pastiche is a Moore character.

When a character *is* in the public domain, then it belongs to EVERYONE. Including Moore. He's a member of the public, after all.

Learn the law.

>>92585262
So Moore is pathetic himself?

>>92586106
You know who else includes rape in almost all of their stories?
The Lifetime network.

>>92586004
Those are not the characters from Ditko. And the story didn't started with the Charlton characters either you casual. Stop pretending you had ever touched a Charlton comic. Watchmen and watchmen impact its tied to Moore's name, his story has nothing to do with the characters he based the archetypes. Rorschach is the only one that is really tied t a previous character and is still extremely well developed.

>>92583194
He thinks Before and Rebirth are stupid because he told an EXTREMELY self-contained story and carefully constructed story, and he thinks digging into it for more content is pretty emblematic of how the big two are cannibalizing themselves to keep going.

He thinks the movie is stupid because he thinks comics are every bit as high an art as movies or books, and if you do a comic that pushes the medium as far as it will go any adaptation will be fundamentally flawed because it's a different medium. Less "you can't possibly adapt this" and more "why are you people acting like it's a great compliment to have a comic turned into a movie? Stop acting like movies are a higher artform."

I concur with his analysis.

>>92586106
Is is a dumb American that has no concept of left.

>>92585396
Oh look another retard who didn't actually read Action Comics. Why do you pretend to even care about comics? Just go shitpost on facebook about niggers or something, leave the actual readers alone you colossal faggot.

>>92585842
DC didn't violate the contract. Watchman is owned by them as long as it remains in print was my understanding. If I'm wrong let me know. Marvel and DC do not steal, the hire creators to create for them and creators have plenty of avenues to create and also own those creations. This is why there aren't any good new ideas in big 2 comics today but that's for another thread.

>>92585650
Fair enough.

>>92586156
Do you actually believe between Moore and Johns the pathetic one is moore?

>>92586245
>If I'm wrong let me know.
The contract states that they have to pay Moore royalties for all merchandise.

Right away, they manufactured and sold Watchmen buttons but refused to pay Moore royalties.

They violated the contract.

>>92586223
Worse he's someone who doesn't even read comics, he's just here to inject his political crusade into everything. I wish people like that (regardless of side) would just drop dead.

>>92586146
>night owl isn't 100% based off of Ditko's beetle
>Rorschach isn't just Mr A./the Question made slightly more insane

>>92586324
You said that Ozymandias is based on a Ditko character.

Why are you still posting instead of closing the tab and crawling away in shame?

>>92586237
I read the whole trash.
Evil white cops (with Black evil goo) attack the peacefull part Metropolis who still like superman despite him being an alien. And all the tolerant people are mostly minority.

Superman Thruth needed New52 to die to retcon it.

>>92586303
Moore is rich, if he Wanted to sue DC he could, and there was a case you can be damn sure he would, making a big stink doing it. He's full of shit, and pipes his crap so his loyal drones will do exactly what you're doing

>>92586028

Funny you say he is friendly, as he burned bridges with most of his old time friends.

>in before his old friends were Big Two cogs so they deserved it

Not denying the idea he is a nice person, but I've read too many stories he is rather easy to piss off and cut off ties with people for that reason.

>>92586394
Moore doesn't like to use the courts. He believes that people should act morally and ethically on their own, without being forced to do so by the legal system.

DC is even richer and they're the ones who violated the contract. Why do you choose to spend your free time rushing to defend their contract violations?

>>92586297
They both can be pathetic retard. Please remove your infantile black and white mindset.
"Savagers of other people's creativity are pathetic"
LEG alone puts Moore in the pathetic category, but frankly anyone who's written in shared universe capes is pathetic here too.

>>92586449
I just don't believe Moore, he has a history of lying (see: the Morrison feud). Why do you rush to defend rich assholes, the exact same thing you chastise me for?

>>92586004
Are Thanos and Apocalypse Jack Kirby's characters?

>>92586432
>Not denying the idea he is a nice person
Indeed, he's a very nice person who takes good care of his friends.

Imagine someone else in the comics industry doing something like this.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/nov/12/alan-moore-donates-10000-to-help-friend-bring-his-african-wife-to-the-uk

Or what he did with Mick Anglo, declining all profits for himself to make sure that Anglo and his family receive their fair share.

He values friendship more than money, and he shuns people who feel the reverse.

>>92586356
Oh no only 4 of the 6 principle characters were stolen from ditko with the other 2 being also stolen

>>92586146
>l-law is what defines creativity!
Fucking pathetic

>>92586245
Kek, stealing and fucking up creators is a extremely long practice

Even a guy that draws heavily from the work of other authors can see that Marvel and DC have turned into a sick ouroboros, rehashing the same tired shit over and over while keeping decades-old characters on life support, and its bad for the medium.

>>92586516
The guy who made thanos said he ripped off Kirby. It is like saying 90% of Liefield's characters aren't him ripping off teen titans and xmen

>>92586501
If it wasn't true then DC would issue a denial.

Morrison is also a known liar. He's also the one who started the feud. He was shittalking Moore in his articles and interviews.
> Keeping all the self-awareness outside the story, we used interviews and forewords to admit to our sources. In them we praised creative theft and plagiarism, quoted the French playwright Antonin Artaud and sneeringly suggested that the likes of Watchmen were pompous, stuffy, and buttock-clenchingly dour. The shock tactics I’d brought with me from the music world, delivered with the snotty whippet-thin snideness of the hipster, had helped me carve out a niche for myself as comics’ enfant terrible, and Steve was happy to play along as the handsome nice one with nothing controversial to say.
You think Grant ever apologized for going on the attack against this total stranger? Funny how you keep taking the wrong side.

>>92586547
>be proven wrong about something
>never reexamine your own position
>never question yourself about whether you've been operating under mistaken assumptions regarding anything else
Wew.

>>92586650
>Apology for stating his opinion
At least Morrison admitted that he was at fault for thrash talking and was a shit in his youth.

>>92586549
Do you have any idea how many times Shakespeare used characters other people created?

Neither do I, I never bothered counting. But it was a lot.

The whole concept of public domain and copyright law is a bit silly. Okay sure, let creators own things exclusively for long enough that they can make profit from their ideas, but eventually it SHOULD be fair game for other creators to step in and go "okay but how about we take those ideas and play with them a little?"

A massive number of sci-fi concepts were basically lifted from Edison's Conquest of Mars which, in turn, was a badly-written "unauthorized sequel" to War of the Worlds.

>>92585222
There was that one interview where he called Ayn Rand a facist. I understand that she was batshit insane ancap autistic but why do they always have to call people they don't like facist?

>>92586722
It wasn't even his opinion. He liked Watchmen. He just pretended to hate it for attention. In short, he's a liar.

He needs to apologize to Moorcock too.
>1970s Morrison: This character isn't based on Moorcock's character.
>1980s Morrison: That character wasn't based on Moorcock's character. Maybe I based him on Ballard's character...?
>1990s Morrison: Yeah, I lied, he was based on Moorcock's character all along. LOL.
>current Morrison: Gee, why doesn't Moorcock like me?

>>92586723
I enjoy LEG, I just think it's hypocritical to call DC creatively bankrupt for using on Moore's work but praise Moore for using the PD characters.

>>92586815
Because LoEG is public domain characters and pastiche characters. Nothing is stolen by Moore from the original writers.

The ownership of Watchmen is stolen from Moore.

>67 posts
>1 File

>>92586847
He's not talking about the legal aspect. He's talking about the creative one. Both are using characters they didn't create to tell stories. Both are "creatively bankrupt".

>>92586905
>Both are using characters they didn't create to tell stories. Both are "creatively bankrupt".
One is borrowing/sharing, one is stealing.

That's the line that he draws in the sand. You may not like the line, but you have to respect that he follows his own line.

I always laugh at the way Morrison talks shit about people that do "grimdark" takes on beloved characters.

I read Dare.

He wrote a "reimagining" of a major English comic book superhero, where the hero is getting VERY LITERALLY anally raped by the "evil triumphant" villain and the only solution is a Watchmen style "nuke everything and hope that more humans than invaders survive" way out.

Like... you don't get to talk, Grant.

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>>92586888

>>92586501
Sure, because DC doesn't have a history of lying and treating their workers as shit.

>>92586223
He might be left wing, but he's not a SJW. Those things aren't mutually inclusive. Or do you think Hillary Clinton and her fanbase are actually left wing?

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>>92587062
Morrison says that his entire career in comics has been rape-free.

Therefore, the comic you are describing doesn't exist. You must have imagined it.

>>92586989
He was bitching about Johns and the GL shit not because Johns was stealing, but because Moore said Johns must have no creativity if he is talking Moore's old GL stuff and expanding on it.

>>92586546

Yeah, but he also screwed Stephen Bissette when they were working on 1963, and mostly because Bissette said something about Moore in an interview that rubbed Moore off the wrong way.

What I was trying to say in my other post he is a nice guy, but he did shit on some of his old friends over petty things too.

>Imblying he gives a fuck
Old man is now too busy doing wizard magic shit like zapping motherfuckers. Some blue guy in a speedo is not important.

>>92585875
He is literally a practicing occultist IRL.

>>92587468
Aside from possibly Neil, I don't think Alan's on speaking terms with anybody he knew back in the 80s and early 90s. Moore's a great writer, and DC in the 80s did fuck him over, but he does really like to burn bridges at the drop of a hat.

>>92585442
> Morrison, the guy who wrote ZOIDS comics, talking about creative integrity.

>>92585297
DC is not in the wrong. They own the characters. Learn how life works before you go around embarrassing yourself with such statements.

>>92585842
This post is communist propaganda. DC and Marvel simply follow the rules in the contracts that were signed between them and the creators of these characters. The artists and writers agree to the companies owning the characters when they sign their contracts. There is no theft going on here.

>>92586303
This has been contested by DC actually. They've always claimed that they gave away the Watchmen buttons as promotional items and some comic book stores started selling them without them knowing about it. Moore thought they were full of shit, and they might be, but who knows.

>>92586028
>This media narrative of him as a bitter angry sourpuss is pushed on us by two large corporations with large marketing budgets who have a vested interest in keeping the comics community unsympathetic to his causes.
It's also really easy to do this when all of his quotes make him sound like an asshole once you remove context and his vocal delivery.

>>92587848
>DC and Marvel simply follow the rules in the contracts that were signed between them and the creators of these characters.
But they don't. DC violated the contract with Moore. They refused to pay him royalties that the contract mandates they pay.

So fuck off with your corporatist propaganda, please.

>>92587902
Incorrect.

DC says that they're "promotional" items, but DC never gave them away. The price ($4.95) is part of the original package, not added on by the store. See >>92587064.

>>92586501
>he has a history of lying
No he doesn't. And everything he said about Morrison was proven correct.

>>92587468
He didn't screw Bissette at all. He didn't write the 1963 finale because the Image creators couldn't agree on a storyline. It's not Moore's responsibility to provide him with a living.

>>92587468
>because Bissette said something about Moore in an interview that rubbed Moore off the wrong way.
The thing is that we don't know what Bissette said. Maybe he called him a faggot and Moore had all the reasons in the world to be pissed off. The fact that Bissette says he doesn't even remember what it was sounds fishy to me.

>>92588164
Anyone can read the interview. He basically blames Moore for the 1963 finale never coming out and is angry about it because he needed the money. He then went on to call Moore "erratic" or something.

>>92588315
But isn't Moore pissed off at what he supposedly said at another interview?

>>92588514
No I think it was that one. I could be mistaken though.

>>92587902
Nah it's probably true. I had an LCS try to sell me a free promo Green Lantern ring once. I threatened to rat them out to DC and they cut the shit very fast, I can tell you.

>>92589157
What about
>>92587064

>>92586989
Your arguing in circles, it's pathetic

>>92587995
Im not going down the rabbit hole of that feud but you're wrong.

How dare an artist want his work to be left alone.

Fucking hell, you faggots are literal cancer.

>>92590726
Hi, Alan.

>>92586814
Morrison based 1 character on Moorcock's work, and now Moorcock says that everything Morrison has ever done is a rip off of his work.

>>92593412
>manlet
That's not supposed to be Moore.

>>92593521
This issue King kills Alan Moore on panel and has Swamp Thing freak out about his long lost dad dying. Subtle commentary on how he feels about DC bringing in the Watchmen immediately following the Button crossover. Simply a masterpiece.

>>92586546
I have mixed feelings on Moore. On one hand, I consider him little better than a bitter fanfiction writer. On the other, I agree about the cannibalization in the comics industry. I might enjoy a couple of books in Rebirth but the whole nostalgia wankery is a bit too much. And I completely agree that writers/artists/creators/what have yous should get their dues.

>>92588514
Don't be stupid. Moore's point of contention was the TCJ interview. Anyone can fucking read that interview. In fact the pages were posted on /co/ long ago. The only thing we don't know is what specifically in it that Moore objected to.

>>92593562
I hate King so much.

>>92587175
They are not. Hillary is a hardcore neo liberal.

I swear most of you are completely blind in your defense of Moore or Johns or whoever.

No, the Lantern Corps War is not comparable to Watchmen at all. Stop using that as an argument against Moore just to defend Johns. Yes, Moore used Charlton characters as a framework for Watchmen since it started out as a Charlton Comics pitch which was originally something else before incorporating the Charlton characters. But once they became Watchmen characters, they drifted far away from the source material. Dr. Manhattan isn't a military guy like Captain Atom. Comedian and Silk Spectre became absolutely nothing like Peacemaker and Nightshade. Seriously. You can even go read the old Peacemaker and Silk Spectre comics on those public domain comics sites and then find Moore's outline in Absolute Watchmen somewhere to see how they differed.

What the Lantern Corps War IS comparable to, is Moore's stories for Green Lantern, which Johns did draw from for Sinestro Corps War and so on, and Moore's story about Abin Sur with the prophecies was expanding upon the old Silver Age comics (Moore basically came up with an answer as to why Abin Sur needed to use a spaceship when he could just use the ring to fly to Earth). In THAT case, yes, Moore could be seen as hypocritical since what Johns is doing isn't simply just reusing the Moore concepts but also adding other stuff to it. I mean the Moore defender in this thread will likely do some kind of mental gymnastics to justify why Moore is right and Johns is wrong, but in this one case, it is understandable if you think Moore is wrong. It's just that he's not wrong for doing Watchmen or arguably LOEG.

Moore being upset about the Watchmen characters being used is understandable because his proposal had a strong argument for generally leaving them out of the DC Multiverse. And as said above, the Watchmen characters are still far removed from the Charlton characters that they would still be new characters.

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>>92583194
The problem isn't adding to a story. It's the fact that the people "adding" to Moore's stories, be it comic sequels/prequels or movie adaptations just turn them into capeshit of the lowest order 99% of the time. I'd be fucking mad too if I'd tried to make something with more value than capeshit with almost all of my works(fish-rape obviously doesn't count).

I like the From Hell movie for instance, but it has none of the artistic input that the comic has. It's practically interchangeable with Sleepy Hollow.

>>92586989
>>92586905
>>92586847
From a legal aspect, LOEG is better than DC's usage of Watchmen because he's generally using public domain characters. I mean, yes, you could argue whether using Harry Potter or James Bond or some of the others (but filing off the serial numbers) hurts this argument, but in general it's still the difference between LOEG and Before Watchmen and The Button and all that.

Now, if you're arguing on the basis of creativity, you might have a better argument. Moore still is arguably more creative since he's drawing in from multiple and diverse sources. But it's harder to argue that DC is creatively bankrupt from that stance.

>>92586989
>One is borrowing/sharing, one is stealing.

I generally agree with this because you can't be accused of stealing when you're using the public domain. That being said, Moore did say this:

>In literature, I would say that it's different. I would say, and it might be splitting hairs, but I'm not adapting these characters. I'm not doing an adaptation of Dracula or King Solomon's Mines. What I am doing is stealing them. There is a difference between doing an adaptation, which is evil, and actually stealing the characters, which, as long as everybody's dead or you don't mention the names, is perfectly alright by me. I'm not trying to be glib here, I genuinely do feel that in literature you've got a tradition that goes back to Jason and the Argonauts of combining literary characters [...]

>It's just irresistible to do these fictional mash-ups. They've been going on for hundreds of years and I feel I'm a part of a proud literary tradition in doing that. With taking comic characters that have been created by cheated old men, I feel that that is different [...] and that's my take on the subject.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5882663/alan-moore-announces-new-league-of-extraordinary-gentlemen-comic-featuring-the-mountains-of-madness

He still considers it "stealing", but in a different way than what DC is doing.

Yeah, he's taking mostly traditional characters that have had many iterations already, and playing with the public perceptions of those characters, which is different than what DC does.
Regarding his use of Harry Potter, James Bond or whatever, he's doing a pastiche and a parody of those characters in order to say something. He's not promoting his book as the new Harry Potter. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem with somebody making a parody or a pastiche of Watchmen, or any of his comics. He might disagree with the parody or whatever, but he wouldn't claim to have been ripped off or stolen from because somebody did that.
I'd actually think he'd probably agree and appreciate the message behind something like Saturday Morning Watchmen.

>>92599257
>I'd actually think he'd probably agree and appreciate the message behind something like Saturday Morning Watchmen.

Supposedly he said during a Q&A that he liked the Saturday Morning Watchmen video. Problem is the videos of the Q&A are no longer on Youtube.

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>>92593412
Unrelated, but i feel like mentioning it, Moore recently cameo'd in a Dylan Dog comic too, he's a reclused tech designer that knows something about occult forces

Translation if anyone cares
>Sorry for the interruption, my friend
>No one's going to disturb us anymore
>Let's get back to work

I'll take a pic of the next page in a minute, couldn't find a pic

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>>92600137
Here

>...it's time to create!
>Yes... yes... thank you!

The story was partially inspired by Lovecraft, so this was most likely an homage to Providence

>>92583194
He looks awesome, I hope I look that badass someday, and use a cane shaped like a wizard staff.

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>>92583194
>calls Alan Moore a hack
>Ignores the fact Alan Moore is always voted as the #1 comic book writer in polls.

Oh, I'm sorry, were you bitching on 4chan or something?