Things that were lost in the fire

>>92527282
>80s/90s Starfire
Good riddance

>>92527293
Fuck you, the cartoon version of her fucking sucked, and that's all we're left with now.

Vic has plenty of potential to be fixed. Katma is going to stay dead though or else John won't be able to go on Marine Crusades in her name.

>>92527282
>Tora/Guy

Who seriously gives a fuck about this ship?

>>92527334
FUCK YOU
The cartoon version of Starfire is one of the strongest characters I've EVER seen in ANY media

Starlord's kaiser helmet

>>92527282
I really miss the heyday of great, REGULAR alternative floppies (even though there are quite a few AMAZING ones coming out at the moment, albeit with very erratic release schedules) like Hate, Eightball, Jim, Dirty Plotte, Trailer Trash, Palookaville (before Seth climbed into his own asshole and decided a fancy-schmancy yearly hardcover would be the best focus for his work), Crap, Jizz, Yahoo, Acme Novelty Library, L & R and all of them...now we just get "graphic novels" from those creators, which I'm grateful for, obviously, but reading the new Crickets it struck me how how much I miss the format of long story, a short funny maybe, an entertaining letters page and a one page strip on the back cover, or something...We're living in a Golden Age now, I really think that and I'm glad to see the alt floppy is making a resurgence even though the release schedules are all over the fucking place....

>>92527282
The Question will be good again someday, he's too awesome a character and beloved of Denny O'Neil to be ignored forever.

Can I add 90s Superboy to the list? Man, I would like to take an eraser to everything done with that character after Karl Kesel left.

>>92527293
eat a dick

>>92527282
>the entire Marvel universe

not kidding

>>92527282
DC's continuity.

I really wish they had rebooted only once and then stuck to a proper continuity instead of saying "fuck you" to the fans once every decade with yet another fucking reboot or universe-wide retcon.

>>92527531
People with taste.

>>92527531
Patricians

>>92527282
I feel like Cyborg lost something when they decided to make him a founding member of the Justice League but I can't figure out what exactly.

Also don't like that J'onn got booted out to make room for him. Was it really too hard to have both of them on the team as founding members? Hell, iirc J'onn was the oldest member of the League when they booted him off. But the only people that care enough about him to know who the Martian Manhunter is have never gotten laid so what do they matter?

If you think that last line is serious it's supposed to be angry sarcasm in reference to someone that works on the DC live action films, can't remember his name at the moment though.

I actually miss honest attempts at making progressive, minority characters instead of this "If I give this female and/or non-white character the title of a pre-established white character I'll look good, can still get good sales based on the white character's name alone, and every time someone else uses them I'll get a paycheck" thing they do now.

>>92529812
Cyborg is a Titan, I don't fucking care what DC says. The Justice League of America is no stronger (in terms of quality) for him being on the team, but the Titans are weaker for NOT having him.

>>92527531
Guy is an Insufferable Faggot Reader-Insert.
So when he has a girlfriend, it's like his shitty fan-base is get laid by proxy.

>>92529812
>>92529870
I liked how Cyborg was focused on the Titans. He could have gone off to do bigger and arguably better things. But even when he aged out of being considered a team his focus was on helping those younger heroes in the Titans because he was there and probably didn't have as much help. Now he's just the resident tech guy on the JL. I don't mind them having a tech guy, I like someone other than Bats doing it, but Cyborg is worse off being on the JL without any Titan history to him.

>>92529933
*being considered a teen

>>92527282
Speaking of, I'd put forward the Starman Legacy.

I don't hate Stargirl, but just once i'd liike them to acknowledge the heritage of the mantle. Instead we have situations like New 52 JLA where she shows up Cosmic Staff in hand with no hint as to how she got it.

>>92529933
Like every token black who's been on the Justice League, Cyborg is relegated to being the Earnest/Stoic/Upstanding/Serious Good Boy.
A credit to his race, indeed.

>>92530015
Wasn't it made in a garage with pvc piping and knick-knackery?
It's really better not explained, as it comes from the era of building portable infinite energy sources in your hobby shed and heroes powered by magical potions.

>>92530055
By an astronomer no less.

>>92527282
I wonder if we did get the question back will it be O'Neills question or diktos question ?

Since we're talking about comics I hate that Starfire can't be Starfire without some dumbass going "Why isn't she exactly like she was in the cartoon?"

>>92530405
*Since we're talking about Titans

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>>92530405
Because comics Starfire was comprised of:
"Lol nudity is part of my culture!"
"I'll kiss you to learn your language"
"Can I tell you about the time I was sold into sexual slavery?"
"I'm defined as a character by which team-mate I'm fucking!"
She's a terrible porn-star of a character for manchildren and Perez to fap to.

>>92530479
and Wolfman. Wolfman fapped to all of them.

>>92530479
Sounds better than "Hello, your Earth ways are strange, what is this "couch" you speak of? *Drinks mustard* XD"

>>92530479
This argument is even more strange since sleazy Terry Long went after underaged Wonder Girl instead of Starfire

>>92530508
Terry was hitting on Starfire while ass-fucking pure waifu Donna tho.

>>92529213
L&R still does floppies.

>>92529911
harsh, but true

>>92530504
You need to stop watching TTG so much, it's corrupting your memories of the amazing original.

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>>92527282
>>Spider-man
>>And Spider-man accessories

>>92529849
DC is still good there. Simon and Jessica as well as Kenan have good books.

>>92527392
>or else John won't be able to go on Marine Crusades in her name.
>John will never take a rebuilt Green Lantern Corp on a Crusade against the Spider Guild or an expedition to retake the Vega System
Why do I even live?

>>92530504
>Hello, your Earth ways are strange, what is this "couch" you speak of?
>he uses the one quote that is obviously her faking it, ends up demonstrating his own stupidity instead

>>92530564
Never seen an episode of TTG.

>>92530756
Then you're purposely being retarded, there was so much more to her character than a few scattered foreigner jokes (which were mostly in the very early episodes anyways).

>>92530024
That's why I've always thought that if the League has to have a Token Black founding member it should be Jefferson Pierce. At least being Upstanding etc is part of his character to begin with what with him being a teacher. But alas DC don't want to give Tony Isabella money.

>>92527282
>James Robinson's dignity
F

>>92528473
Watch more media so you can see how terrible she is

>>92527282
>Vic Sage
Which one do you mean? The Ditko, O'Neil, JLU, PaxAm or Veitch Question? Anyway, he is a very cool character, so I think he'll still have some good days.
>Booster Gold/Blue Beetle adventures
But that still keeps popping up even though it's not canon any more. See: Convergence, JL 3001
>Jason Todd remotely having potential as a character
But Rhato is bretty good

>>92531568
I have, still disagree. But perhaps you can point me to another character with her depth, I'll wait. BTW this character would have to strike a near-perfect balance between humorous, light-hearted joy and lines so deep and meaningful they make you wonder how they can say them.

Mark Waid's Sanity.
Slott and Bendis' competence.

>>92532126
Waid was never sane (someone post the pic about him sperging out every day in the office)
However, he used to be at least a good writer

>>92530564
>the amazing original.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug huh

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>>92530574
>The comics are trash and forever lost to Slot
>The movies haven't been good in more than a decade and I have no hopes for Iron Man 4- I mean Homecoming
>The video games haven't been good since Ultimate Spider-Man and we have exactly no info about the new one
>The cartoons have been absolute cancer ever since Disney bought Marvel and canceled Spectacular, new cartoon seems just more of the same garbage

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>>92529812
>I feel like Cyborg lost something when they decided to make him a founding member of the Justice League but I can't figure out what exactly.

He had no real solo history.

All the classic members of the League had solo titles or had runs in silver age anthologies. They had secret ID's, supporting casts, and their own rogues.

Cyborg has NONE of this. He had great moments IN Titans but he was always still an ensemble character.

In new JL he is really serves as a plot shortcut, he's the 'my sensors detect' guy and the 'I've plugged in & we need to get to all this places to find these Macguffins" guy.

Thing is? He COULD really be good but instead they just keep TELLING us he is.

I had to laugh though when NEW52 came out & they convinced the media that not only with Vic an A-Lister now but he was ALWAYS an A-lister the whole time.

>>92530479
>and Perez
Hey...fuck you. Don't drag based Perez into Wolfman's bullshit...

>>92530564
>>92530479
>>92532034
This right here is why we need to separate the comics and cartoon sections of the board, just so we can be rid of the blight that are cartoonfags.

>>92529361
>Can I add 90s Superboy to the list? Man, I would like to take an eraser to everything done with that character after Karl Kesel left.
This
Also his /ss/ adventures with Bombshell

>>92529812
Martian Manhunter completes any JL team, his absence is just one of the many reasons that all post Flashpoint teams have been missing something.

Doesn't help that for the longest thing they changed his personality so even if he was on a spinoff team it still sucked.

He needs to be Rebirthed into a founder again, it boggles the mind why they felt the need to remove him.

>>92530479
Posting Terry Long should be a bannable offense.

>Vic Sage
>Booster Gold/Blue Beetle adventures
>Tora/Guy
These all really hurt.

>>92529361
90's Superboy and the rest of 90's YJ, too. Ruined as soon as Johns got them for his TT run.

>>92533969
Neither did Martian Manhunter but to be fair, J'onn's thing was that he WAS the JLA. Through all the shitty relaunches and reboots and moves to Detroit, he was always there.

So replacing him with Cyborg who was NEVER there was double weird.

>>92535381
Honestly, the beginning of the end was Meltzer's League. The franchise has yet to recover since then.

>>92527282
Most things should be kept dead. There has never been any need to bring back Vic, Katma or Ted. Only Barryfags would want them back.

>>92530157
I'd be fine with either, or both, or something similar but slightly different, or JLU's, or even Veitch's.

Anything other than the immortal evil wizard with weird Phantom Stranger tier powers that came out of New 52.

>>92527334
t.person who just wants a whore instead of a waifu

>>92534018
Hey man, even the great Perez wanted to have Superman pump-and-dump Diana with a one night stand

>>92535458
>Most things should be kept dead
Nah fuck you, we're well past the point of caring about people staying dead. Only delusional folks think we can put that genie back in the bottle.

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>>92535455
Now that you mention it, that is the moment it started going downhill. I remembered liking McDuffie's run for a bit but you can tell he was being held back by editorial even before all that shit came out after.

>>92535327
What's wrong with him?

>>92529812
Cyborg was inserted so they'd have a black guy for the movie adaptations, I think. Kinda like how Black Widow started getting pushed as an Avenger in the comics before they got the ball rolling on the Avengers movie, or how Suicide Squad became a Harley Quinn comic before the movie was announced. Reverse-synergy if you will.

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>Tynion says end of League of Shadows arc will include a revelation that'll please old-school Shiva fans
>Said reveal turns out to be the return of the Detroit bullshit from Gabrych's Batgirl run
>Apparently, "old-school" means early 2000s now
I know I should be used to it by now, but fuck, the dude didn't even try.

>>92536100
>Martian Manhunter's backstory is all about racism and genocide
>Martian Manhunter is a shapeshifter who could easily and passably disguise himself as a black dude
>"Nah, let's have this discount black Megaman be on the League instead"

>>92536257
Don't call Cyborg a discount Mega Man. He's more like a bootleg Mega Man.

Keep in mind that the New 52 happened so DC could be a better base for adaptations, which would then have synergy with the comics from an aesthetic and narrative standpoint. It's why all the superhero outfits got "moviefied". There was a Diane Nelson press release that mentioned how this "would be a platform for future media adaptations".

They didn't put Cyborg on the League for SJW catering as much as it was for WB pandering. It's really fucking stupid I agree, but hopefully Rebirth undoes the New 52 Origin. We already have JLA Year One for that.

>>92536257
>>92536897
Fuck you guys, Cyborg was around before Mega Man.

>>92535455
>Mentzer's JLA
Remember when Red Tornado became a real human and super-smart gangster Solomon Grundy bit off his leg? True capekino.

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>>92535849
He was literally Marv Wolfman's self-insert, created to marry Donna Troy and have a kid with her. He convinced her to retire from the superhero game, and then became very bitter and angry with her when she started fighting crime again in space. He divorced her, got sole custody of their son, and then drove off a cliff during a storm (accident) with both of his kids (Donna's and his other ex-wife's).

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>>92537873
They also re-appeared in Blackest Night, and the baby tried to bite Donna's tits off, and hit the neck instead

>>92527282
>Gwen Stacy not making goblin babies with Norman Osborne.

>>92527282
>Tora/Guy
I'm not up-to-date with either character, why can't we have that back?

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>>92537873
>>92529911
This makes me understand why so Elseworlds went out of their way to shit on both of them.

>>92530576
Simon and Jessica are okay-tier. It's just that Marvel is a cancerous, shit filled colon compared to DC's Gonerrhea filled colon. Cuz DC really isn't that much better, they just don't market their current books as much as their old books.

>>92535499
>implying waifufaggotry is acceptable
>implying whorish characters can't be waifus
It must be summer already

>>92536253
>early 2000s
>thinks Shiva was from the Question

Carolyn and Sandra Woosan are from O'Neil's run of Richard Dragon dating back to Pre-crisis DC you pleb. Less trips please and more actual comics reading.

>>92539834
>not what a trip is
>telling Judge Anon to read comics

lol(?)

>>92539834
Where in his post did he even imply that Shiva was from O'Neil's Question run? You're being dumb as fuck if you're assuming that's what he thinks just because he posted a picture of Shiva with Vic from that run.

>>92527334
Fuck off

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>>92527334
>he didn't like this

Cartoon fags make comic fags look smart by comparison.
That's pretty hard to do.

>>92542191
Them eyes are gross man also she was way more annoying that cute in this.

80s Kori > Toonfire

>>92542314
Why, because we prefer the vastly superior media?

>>92542660
>he actually prefers blank eyes
*shudder*

>>92542314
Of course they do, watching a cartoon
A) doesn't require any reading
and B) is for literal manchildren

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>>92542702
>*actions*
Wew

>>92529812

Cyborg is wasted on the league. A big part of who he is is being someone who's effectively lost in something bigger than himself, along with other people similarly lost. A big part of classic Titans was the idea that there wasn't a cool confident Superman to pull them out of the fire and everyone is figuring things out.

Once you give him a safety net in the form of more competent and experienced A-Listers his whole character really doesn't work.

>>92542667
>cartoons
>the piece of media literally aimed at children
>superior
'kay.

>>92542848
That's not a valid counter argument, ya know?

Comics were originally intended for children as well, and you can't say that comics outgrew children because there are also adult cartoons and actual mature themes in cartoons intended for children.

>>92542760
Oh it's you from the other thread. I already told you that not using them is worse than using them.

>>92542734
>calls others literal manchildren
>he's a comicfag
WEW LAD

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>>92542987
This is some next level autism. Also

>Oh it's you from the other thread
*tips tinfoil hat*

>>92542848
>>92542890
You know, oftentimes writers being forced to work around limitations makes for much better scripts.

>>92542890
>Comics were originally intended for children as well
Comic books outgrew children. Most comic books, especially creator-owned ones, are aimed towards mature audiences.
>and you can't say that comics outgrew children
Yes I can, I just did.
>because there are also adult cartoons
Which are, for the most part, all edgy shit.
>and actual mature themes in cartoons intended for children.
Like what, homosexuality? Cut me a break.

>>92543024
Better to be a READER than that smelly guy who still watches cartoons aimed at children.

>>92543133
Okay, well, this argument is clearly between two delusional nincompoops.

>>92543043
>*tips tinfoil hat*
not sure if ironic, also
>denying THIS hard
and he says *I'm* the autist

>>92543133
>implying comicfags aren't smelly guys

>>92543158
Yeah, I'm not the guy who unironically uses *actions* like a 10-year old girl in DeviantArt, Mr. Low-Functioning.

>>92543187
>no u!
At least comic book readers, you know, READ shit. We don't rot our brains watching garbage for children.

>>92542702
>blank
Confirmed for not knowing how eyes convey emotion. How's your summer vacation treating you? Happy to be free from all of that homework I bet

>>92543438
Actually, my uni classes haven't finished yet, thanks for asking though.
And how the fuck are eyes supposed to convey emotions IF THERE'S NOTHING IN THEM!?

>>92543256
>I-it was ironic!

>no u!
That's not even how you use that phrase, ya dipshit

>>92543532
Easily, there is more to eyes than retinas, irises and pupils you know.

>>92544011
>implying skin alone is remotely comparable

>>92544110
>implying that it's not
Have you ever read anything with Starfire it before the year 2001?

>>92544151
I don't read comics because I'm not a fucking geek.

>>92544159
But you'll watch cartoons aimed at children?

>>92544159
But you're a toonfag? That some how makes you less of a geek? What the fuck did he meme by this?

>>92544179
>>92544204
manchild >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geek

>>92544159
He says, whilst posting on /co/.

>>92544304
>whilst
out

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>>92544263

>>92544263
Ah yes, the bait
The bait for anon
Anon's bait

>>92543651
Ii hope you realize Zimbabwe is a sovereign state now after the Great /Pol/ Chimpout of 1313, the cancelled Star Trek game that will never see the light of night

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>>92535381
>Neither did Martian Manhunter
J'onn solo adventures were a staple in DC Silver Age and while most of it's forgotten he DID have an existence outside the JLA.

>>92529911
Parody he was, General Glory was great since he kept Guy on a short leash.
Fucking fourth reich and their one shot shit issues.

>>92530015
>Starman Legacy.

I wouldn't trust anyone handling that but Robinson. Courtney has the staff now and since she's John's sisterfu no one's touching her. There's future Starmen that have yet to happen, and that's it. Just let Jack Knight have his fucking happy ending and let him live and die in peace.

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>>92532371
>Waid was never sane (someone post the pic about him sperging out every day in the office)

>>92534673

>This right here is why we need to separate comics from cartoons

Why? Because people have brought legitimate arguments to prove you wrong, and you can't bait your way out of them?

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>>92546504
I'll take Waid's fanboy autism over Groth's sociopathic elitism.

>>92546336
I'm unclear on the details, but Robinson has creator rights on Jack Knight so no one else can use him.

>>92546504
Groth's an asshole tho, and this is coming from a big Fanta fan.

>>92537533
Mega Man and Astro Boy are both better characters with better stories though so he gets the shaft in comparisons.

>>92544471
>he couldn't even bother to find the pic
SAD

>>92528473
Pfft, what?
The generic anime archetype ingenue?
I've seen no less then FOUR anime in the last year with her exact character in the pilot in it.

>>92549721
>The generic anime archetype ingenue?
I'm really starting to wonder if people like you had watched some sort of abridged parody of the show, where all the characters were flanderized as fuck.

>>92545177
I know his Silver Age stuff is mostly forgotten now, but I would have thought he would have a lot of exposure to audiences due to his prominence in the 00s cartoons. I don't think he is quite as obscure as the bigshots at DC seem intent on saying he is.

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It's not fair dammit

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If the MCU gets Fantastic Four rights, we might see her, but I miss her back in comics.

>>92540177
Her first appearances after Richard Dragon and in the post-Crisis DCU was in O'Neil's Question.

>>92537873
Terry Long's death also ruined the Kyle/Donna relationship. I fucking hate him

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>>92555110
>>92539834
Of course she was not from The Question. What I meant was that Tynion said he was catering to old-school fans of Shiva, but instead of bringing back anything of O'Neil's characterization of her, he brought back something from Gabrych's Batgirl run.
Also
>Implying I haven't read Richard Dragon: Kung Fu Fighter.
I've storytimed Richard Dragon: Kung Fu Fighter. Several times.

>>92550416
Maybe once she gets in a movie...

>>92539834
>Calling Judge Anon a pleb
Are you fucking dense?

He got me to read O'Neil Question,
and now I empathize with his pain.

>>92536257
You forgot
>Has been voiced or played by black dudes for most of the last 20 years, including currently on Supergirl

>>92537533
At least Mega Man has a personality and an history.

>>92533403
>Spectacular
I will never not be angry about this. Sometimes I randomly remember it and it upsets me, greatly.

>>92546336
The future Starman did happen in John's Justice Society of America. He was Thom Kallor.

>>92538307
Should Guy become Warrior again?

>>92532126
Bendis has never had competence unless you think tricking people into thinking you're a better writer than you are is "competence". Even if you want to be generous and say that, at one point, he was a good writer he certainly hasn't been one since Disassembled and that was 13 fucking years ago.

Bendis is hands down my list favorite Marvel writer of all time. I find him to be a bigger detriment than I do even Austen. At least Austen's time was brief.

Oracle, Barbara Gordon version. I don't mind her as Batgirl, but I had infinitely more respect for her as the wheelchair-bound badass who refused to let a major disability keep her from being amazing.

On a related note, the extended Birds of Prey team. They were a good way to get a fresh view of C-listers, and they worked surprisingly well together.

On a related note to THAT - Kate Spencer/Manhunter. She did the badass single mom thing before Jessica Drew, and it was fun to read.

I would have much preferred Iceman as a villain after the death seed arc than the only characteristic is being gay version we have now

>>92535458
Katma has more value as a character than John ever did tho.