Hobgoblin

Forgot demogoblin.

Buncha other decoys.

>>92484437
You forgot the 2211 one

>>92484437

There's the one from Secret War. And that Spider-Man/Red Sonja miniseries had a Hobgoblin and no-one knows who it was meant to be.

>>92484437
I fucking hated the Hobgoblin 'saga'.

>>92486267

It's what you get when a mystery-villain story changes writers several times, and each of them has a different idea of who the villain should be. And it may have been like the 1990s Clone Saga, dragging on far longer than it should have because it was selling.

>>92486855
Events also delayed the reveal too. Secret Wars, Secret Wars II, and xover with Under Siege happened during this period.

>>92487364

Secret Wars didn't actually take up any tie-in issues of books at the time. One month ended with the title character going off to Secret Wars, the next month picked up with him returning, "read Secret Wars to find out what happened".

And those other tie-ins were 4 issues in total, that hardly explains the Hobgoblin saga dragging on for over 50 months.

>>92484437
Wade Wilson was a Hobgoblin once before he got his Deadpool costume.

>>92484437
>Phil Urich

Fuck you Cebulski and Slott.

>>92487571
>And those other tie-ins were 4 issues in total,

Only? It feels a lot more.

Although now that I think back, I can only remember 4 as well - one where the building turned to gold and Kingpin hauled it off to the Mariana trench so it doesn't upset economy, one with Beyonder making a deal with Mephisto to see if they can torture Spidey so he buckles, and one or two where they teamed up with Puma to hunt the Beyonder.

>>92487816

There were more tie-in issues in Web of Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man, but the DeFalco/Frenz run on Amazing Spider-Man only had 3 tie-in issues to Secret Wars 2. It may feel like more because things like the battle with Firelord take place in between parts of Secret Wars 2.

It seems like someone may have made a decision to put the Hobgoblin mystery on the shelf for the duration of the crossover, though.

>>92487916
>It may feel like more because things like the battle with Firelord take place in between parts of Secret Wars 2.

Yeah, and some other misc issues too (one with Silver Sable vs Jack o Lantern for sure). And Hobgoblin is somewhere in the middle of that shit too.

Either way once the Gang War arc kicks in, the Secret Wars tie ins are luckily over. I loved that story arc for some reason.

>>92487571

No but it had the fall-out with the black costume for the first few issues. Then we get the intro of the Rose and Jack O'Lantern into the Saga with the Hobgoblin being more felt as a presence from behind the scenes at the time. He didn't show up five or six issues after #251.

>>92487916

There was a lot of infighting between the Editors (DeFalco, Priest) and the writers (Stern, DeFalco) at those times as well.

Go into the fact that the comic had tight continuity at the time too thanks to Shooter. So you had an "Under Siege", "Scourge of the Underworld", and aftermath of an arc on Daredevil which forced the Kingpin into hiding which then kicked off the Gang War saga.

Also the writers and editors had their different interpretations on who the Hobgoblin was. You had Stern with the mindset it was Kingsley, you have DeFalco with the mindset that it was Fisk, and then you have PAD brought in for one issue to end the entire mess.

Priest cleans up with two issues in Web of Spider-Man which are basically the origin of the Rose and explanation on why Ned was the Hobgoblin.

Cue a few years down the line when an editor decides to ask Stern to finish the Saga as he intended and we get Hobgoblin Lives.

The fun thing about Lives is that Stern went to town on continuity and it shows in the pages after the comic with the chart of the various things he brings up.

>>92484437

Here's the full list of Hobgoblins:

> Roderick Kingsley (original that creator Roger Stern revealed in the 90s mini Hobgoblin Lives)
>Ned Leads (original Hobgoblin that was at the time in the late 80s decided by editorial Priest/writer PAD for him to be the Hobgoblin. Later retconned into being another dupe.
> Lefty Donovan - a lacky of the original who was duped into trying out the Stromm Formula and having it explode in his face. Then is used as a guinea pig for the refined formula that the original Hobgoblin wields.
> Flash Thompson - due to Flash calling out the Hobgoblin, the original stages a reveal of Flash being the next dupe who's revealed by Spidey to be the Hobgoblin. Is later cleared when the Hobgoblin (Macendale) attacks Flash in front of police clearing his name.
> Jason Macendale - The second Hobgoblin. Takes the identity after hiring the Foreigner to off his rival. Is given the gear but soon realizes he's still outmatched by Spider-Man and decides he needs more power.
> Demogoblin - In the Inferno tie-in Macendale bargains with the demon of that crossover for said power and is bonded with a demon. Said demon later is expelled from Macendale after a longstanding injury caused by Ghost Rider. The demonic Hobgoblin is later killed by sacrificing himself to save a child.

Macendale is later finally tried for the crimes of both his own and the original. Outs Leads as the Hobgoblin which leads to events of Hobgoblin Lives. Kingsley is outed as the original Hobgoblin during this.

> Secret War Hobgoblin. Introduced during the Bendis mini. His identity is never revealed and is never seen again after the event. Ironically, Macendale possibly appears at the beginning in his Jack O'Lantern persona in a flashback.

> Hobgoblin in the Red Sonja/Spider-Man mini. Probably the Secret War Hobgoblin given he had the same type of glider as the SW Hob. Turns demomic due to the merging of Sonja's world and Spidey's. Is freed from spell after the mini.

> Deadpool during Priest's Deadpool run where he pokes fun of this.

> Roderick shows up again in Spider-Girl vol. 1 after an eight-year hiatus. Becomes the character's arch-nemesis until franchise's end.

> Hobgoblin 2211 a future Hobgoblin from PAD's Friendly Neighborhood Spidey arc that involves Spider-Man 2211.

> "Roderick" returns after ten year hiatus in 616 to be killed by Phil Urich who later take's the identity. Phil ditches it after joining Norman Osborn and becomes the Goblin Knight then King.

> Revealed that Daniel Kingsley was the one who died and Roderick is alive. Let's Urich keep the identity for a price.

> during the Goblin War with Norman, Kingsley sends his butler as another dupe to take the fall.

> Kingsley is finally brought to justice for only his second time by YAAAAASSSSS QUEEEEEN and Spider-Woman in the later's ongoing.. it was probably a dupe though.

>>92489742

There's also the fact that DeFalco has said he was intending it to be Richard Fisk, and he was just misleading readers by making Ned Leeds a suspect, but he appeared to have convinced everyone else working on the Spider-Man books, including Frenz, Priest, and Peter David, that it really was going to be Ned Leeds.

>>92491035
Having it be Fisk would have been pretty anti-climatic, wouldn't it?

>>92492447

It doesn't feel like a good idea, but really, nor did it being Kingsley. At least more readers would have known and cared who Richard Fisk was. DeFalco wanted Kingsley to have been The Rose, and that does feel like a better fit.

But Fisk or Kingsley as the Hobgoblin, either of them should be the type of mystery you reveal quickly, not drag out for years, because neither of them are anything to Peter, there's no emotional stakes there, no reason for readers to care that this costumed villain was secretly a civilian villain all along. In terms of giving a long-running saga some impact, Ned was the better option.

>>92492876
I have to agree on that. I liked Ned as Hobby, since I came into reading the comic as a kid when the storyline was well along, though after reading the original issues I can see where Kingley was being subtley set up as Hobgoblin.

The very first thing he does when finding Green Goblin's stash is design a new costume - and then make an entire production line of it. That should have screamed "evil fashion designer" but Stern made it feel natural.

>>92490074
>Kingsley is finally brought to justice for only his second time by YAAAAASSSSS QUEEEEEN and Spider-Woman in the later's ongoing..

I don't remember that. When did that happen?

>>92492988
>he ends up with spidey's costume in one issue
>next issue has hobby on the cover holding it

>>92494418

Not surprising. It happened just a few months ago in Spider-Woman #16 written by Dennis Hopeless.

File: hobbylives6.jpg (84KB, 397x600px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 397x600px

>>92492988

I was opposite spectrum. When I went fully into comics I picked up the Marvel Tales that reprinted the Hobgoblin issues (the Stern stuff) and re-read the reveal of Ned as Hobgoblin in the later half.

I never bought it. I kept thinking. "Okay. So what happened to the Hobgoblin that wanted to be a crime lord and was a cold blooded murderer. How did he become this dude who wanted expose corruption?"

The whole crux of Ned becoming the Hobgoblin never made sense to me. There was no motivation to be had. Also the way he died. How the hell could the original fall to normal mercs when he had his goblin gear right there? Or had the Stromm formula?

It just never made sense at all. Why when I read Hobgoblin Lives. I'm glad Stern took those plot holes and used them.