Was she a Mary Sue?

>>92426304
Did you miss the whole part about her being batshit crazy?

>>92426304
>No friends
>Sociopath
>Has a mental breakdown at the end
>Her life goes down the drain after the war is over
>NOBODY likes her, not even her parents.

I don't think you know what a mary sue is

>>92426319
She still succeeds in everything.

Yes she was a mary sue. She was the fire nation's perfect princess and never to work for anything and everything always went her way. So at the end when everything went to shit, she couldn't handle it and went batshit.

>>92426334
She only succeeds in two areas: manipulation and fire bending. Everything else is average or shit (can't do romance to save her life).

She just needed the Zuzu

>>92426304

No she's just a villain. Gets the immediate edge and is better and stronger than the hero and wins at first to extend the drama but then fucks up and fails and is epically defeated in the finale.

She'd only be a mary sue if all her power and competence actually got her something in the end, rather than a few months of victory.

>>92426332
>at the end
Well, it is a pay off, but it's a real long shot.
>>92426368
Yeah, because as a villain you really need to get those romancing skills up. I meant that's she's a perfect villain, too perfect.

>>92426421
A villain being goo at stuff does not make them a Sue. A Sue is perfect at everything and even though they're annoying as shit to the audience, everyone in the show loves them, and not liking them makes you bad. You don't have to actually DO anything bad, you're bad because you don't want to befriends with the Sue.

>>92426560
Oh well. My trail of thought was Villain Sue is perfect at being Villain, but I guess not.
Does anyone knows about comics though?

>>92426421
>I meant that's she's a perfect villain, too perfect.
Her entire story is playing second fiddle/choice.

Her parents and the Fire Nation clearly preferred Zuko, once he was banished no one exactly jumped for joy about Azula. Even with all her training and showboating she was just sort of there.
When Zuko grows disillusioned with dealing with the Gaang she's sent to clean up after him, when the Fire Lord gets tired of being the Fire Lord and wants to be the Phoenix King he tosses the title to her, and it's not even a real promotion from her princess status before. Nothing changed, he just needed to pacify her from throwing a temper tantrum.
When her friends have to choose between their own lives and her? Again, Zuko and freedom is first, and so on.
Ozai's downfall and Zuko's rise were very controversial in-universe, few people except her close circle really cared what was happening with Azula.

She's plot momentum, that's all. She does it in a flashy and flawless way so you're probably under the impression she's a big deal but really just about everything she did was playing understudy for someone too occupied with something else, their character arc, plots, relationships whatever while she was relegated to a lot of kicking and screaming.

Azula is used a lot like Toriyama did with Vegeta. He said that while Vegeta was a nasty character he was useful for moving along things, reader's reception to his proactive nature wasn't intended but Toriyama played along with it because it got results. Azula gets no such conclusion though, no "result" for her efforts. The comics attempt it but it fell on its face and it's likely to remain lying with its face in the dirt because too much pay off would affect LoK.

It's funny that Zuko's told he was lucky to be born and she was born lucky, because the exact opposite is true. She's a bit part chewing the scenery, the perfect lackey not villain.

>>92426304
Mary Sues are not also edgelords. The two are polar opposites.

Also >>>/a/

>>92426377
provide evidence

>>92426304
Azula isn't a Mary Sue, but she does have a lot of plot armor.

>And while on the subject, are comics good?
They average out to okay.

I would recommend not reading The Search and Smoke and Shadow, i.e. The Fire Family Soap Opera. Trust me, it's bad. The Promise has shades of it too, but at least read the Ozai parts because they're great.

The other ones are decent.

>>92426304
Every character in this shitty show is a Mary Sue.

>>92426304

She has an average plot armor of the main villain, since her father is ironically barely ever seen in the show.

She has enough character faults to not be a Mary-Sue either. She's socially awkward, borderline insane and she lacks actual friends entirely. Mary Sues tend to be loved by everyone for how perfect they are.

>>92427449
surely if everyone is then no-one is?

>>92427681
That's not how it works. Shit writing is shit writing.

>>92426332
none of these are really flaws tho, because most of the people who like her are already used to all of these things constantly happening in their lives every day so they just revel in her (as well as their own) sociopathy while also jerking off to her achievements.

>>92426304
>Was she a Mary Sue?
remember when she lost in the very end, mentally and physically. that alone doesn't make her a mary sue, plus she had no social skills. she was basically final boss's unique minion that you fight before you fight final boss.

>>92426979
Are you autistic? Avatar is /co/

>>92427957
Are you talking about her fans or the characters in the show? If it's the former then it's irrelevent, it it's the later than I don't really remember anyone praising her asiade of Tai Lee(who betrayed her later) not out of fear of being ass raped. Despite how good she was at the bad things she did, there was never a moment in the show when she was presented in the good light, which is crucial to being a Mary Sue.

>>92426399
This! Main villains must be a threat to the heroes! That means the villains are dangerous and competent! Fucking Christ, I hate how much Mary Sue is thrown around these days.

>>92426332
99% of the internet doesn't know what a Mary sue actually is

>>92426332
/thread

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>>92427225

>>92428300
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainSue

Watching the series now for the first time.. I was really enjoying myself before Azula/Ty/Mei showed up. The amount of plot armor those three carry are ridiculous. Especially Ty Lee. That episode with the tank where she casually takes out 30 "elite" earth benders by gently poking them is ridiculous.

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>>92426643

>>92428854
>TV Tropes doesn't get to set what the term means; the best we can do is capture the way it is used.

>>92426356
So not a Mary Sue as she went batshit, that's definitely a flaw

Where would you live in Avatar anon?

I would love to live in the Earth Kingdom its pretty huge to explore.

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Thankfully she learned her place after the war and finally had a peaceful, fulfilling life.

>>92429907
is this porn

>>92426304

even if you ignore her going insane and losing her friends towards the end, she was in no way perfect.

She was a psychopathic and egoistical person with clear mummy issues. By no means a mary sue.

>>92426304
No. Also, yes, the comics were good. One's mostly an anthology series, the rest are basically another season in comic form.

>>92426979
>Mary sues are not edgelords
There's a FUCKLOAD of "OCs" that would beg to differ. Also-

>Avatar is /a/
What???

>>92426643
>Her parents and the Fire Nation clearly preferred Zuko
I think you missed that part where Ozai clearly would prefer dogshit than good-for-nothing Zuko.

>>92426304
I mean, she's blatantly the villain and also completely fucked up as a person.
I know the term 'Mary Sue' is all sorts of misused these days because kids like OP don't have fully developed language centers in their brains but damn the term doesn't just mean 'competent fighter.'

>>92427957
Nobody liking the character is the EXACT opposite of a mary sue.

Maybe the definition has changed since I was younger but lots of badly written Harry Potter and Yu-Gi-Oh fanfic led me to believe that a mary sue is:

>Stands out even in a setting where magic and powers are common, usually has an ability that's stronger and rarer than everyone else's
>Is amazingly talented in everything they do but are very humble and are confused by everyone being so amazed by what they can do
>Is usually the last of something, might have a back story that breaks the canon
>Everyone wants them, even the bad guys
>Only flaws they have aren't ones that could make them seem unlikable, ones like being clumsy or being too trusting
>Has a design that stands out even in the setting and might even break the lore

So going by that only one thing on this list fits Azula.

>>92428859
I didn't know that punching them hard in pressure points is the same as gently poking them

>>92430239
>Is amazingly talented in everything they do but are very humble and are confused by everyone being so amazed by what they can do
>Is usually the last of something, might have a back story that breaks the canon
>Everyone wants them, even the bad guys
>Only flaws they have aren't ones that could make them seem unlikable, ones like being clumsy or being too trusting
...She is literally the polar opposite of these traits.

>>92430287
>So going by that only one thing on this list fits Azula.

at least finish reading.

>>92430314
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing out how much she isn't a mary sue.

>>92426368
I feel like her manipulation was on the level of Cersei Lannister
I.e only successful because of how much brute force she had to back her up

>>92426979
>/a/
keks4daysson

>>92426304
Azula replaced Toph for my fave...originally. Things were easy for her. She's a prodigy and unapologeticly vicious and violent. And fun.

More importantly, Azula had her own agency being competent and self-aware of her villainy. One of the slippery slope nuances that Bryke's hack writing destroyed about Azula was the "crazy" meme and "The Beach". I'm not surprised Azulas reputation continues to spiral.

>>92431200
Azula was far worse in Book 2 than Book 3, though. She was a Mary Sue through and through in Book 2, literally winning victory after victory through plot power. Not everything is Bryke's fault.

>>92426304
She's fucking insane too, you're forgetting that. A big reason she's even able to be defeated when she's such a prodigy is because she has a psychotic breakdown.

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>>92426304
>mary sue
>losing

>>92431226
>>92431364
>winning makes u a marysue

Children like you don't deserve the last shreds of ATLA's dignity which bryke almost destroyed

>>92431399
I said the opposite of that you doofus.

>>92426304
Also
>built up like some strategical genius
>her 'conquest' of the Earth Nation basically comes down to making a bunch of previously emotionless elite soldiers piss themselves because she's just so scary. There was nothing smart about what she did there.

But then Zuko summed it up best by saying she was born lucky. So basically, things go her way so often because of luck. And of course even with all of Zuko's hard work he still got told that he would never be as strong as Azula, who doesn't really do shit.

>>92426304

Nice bait, I almost felt on it ;)

>>92426334
>>92426304
You really don't understand what a Mary Sue is and you should probably stop trying to talk about it

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>>92427438
>not liking The Search
why?

I wanna hold her :c

>>92428823
this evidence is not graphic enough

>>92429907
Can we get sauce on this, my brother!

Man, if she wasn't such a crazy bitch she'd be a good mother

>>92427438
Zucest confirmed in Search and SaS.

>>92430239
Exactly.
Come to think of it, were her blue flames actually better than everyone else's or were they just cool?

>>92426304
she was totally broken at the end,not just defeated,but totally destroy,how can she a mary sue?do you even know what that means?

>>92426979
>Also >>>/a/
you just went full reatrd there pal

>>92426304

Azula was not a mary sue, she obviously had problems and she did end up losing the fight at the end (even though it was 2 against one). And to top it all off she didn't get a happy ending.

>>92434308
Their actual function was to make her attacks visually distinct from Zuko's so in fights involving both of them it was easy to see whose fireblasts were whose. In universe it's explained that she creates hotter flames than normal when she firebends, it's never made clear what the advantage here is, presumably destructive power, there is probably also a drawback of some kind as there are a few better firebenders who don't use blue flames (my guess would be they take more energy so you'd tire quicker) but any pros/cons of blue flames never really come up in the show.

>>92427957
its not like all that is her downfall in the end and causes her to lose
OH WAIT