How does /co/ feel about Maus?

>>92411321
Masterpiece.


>pol

JEWS!!!!!!

>>92411321
I should put it on the reread list
I read it in high school but I don't even remember how I felt about it

>>92411345
you okay, pal?

Artwork is below scribble tier, the writing meanders since the writer can't decide if he wants to write about his fathers experiences or his relationship with his father, and I remember being horribly disappointed with the resolution.

Not the greatest thing ever, but worth a read.

>>92411321
A miserable piece of shit like Vladek should have died in the Holocaust (ignoring the argument that it likely didn't happen).

>>92411345
In after /pol/

>>92411321
The whole analogy topples when you realize that mice are pests that need to be exterminated, and that cats are just fulfilling their god-given duties.

>>92411501
The directionless style of writing is the entire point. It's about the author trying to reconcile incomprehensible tragedy that destroyed his family and his own personal experiences with his father. It's not about the Holocaust as much as it is about the Holocaust's effect on an individual not even involved in it directly.

>>92411345
/thread

>>92411321
anti-semitic garbage

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>>92411745
>it's SUPPOSED to be bad

>>92411321
I remember reading it in highschool with my class and I was the only one that could distinguish which mice were supposed to be women from those who were supposed to be men. Maybe the artstyle was too simplistic.

Other than that I think it's a cool read

Fuck you, Spiegelman. My cat is not a Nazi.

It's decent in an arthouse "fathers and sons" sense, but it's pretty overrated.

>>92411834
GOTEEM XD

>>92411642
That counter-analogy falls apart when you realize that mice are a vital part of any ecosystem they appear in and cats kill everything they can overpower for no good reason. And also that being around cats and welcoming them into your home will poison your mind and eventually kill you.

>>92411834
How did they bandage his ear like that?

>>92411642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjbsD-TYi3s

"From the beginning of the century through the First War until the rise of Hitler the freemasonry of the Jewish merchants consistently undermined the German economy and the nationhood of the fatherland."

Based NSDAP

>>92411970
Getting bubonic plague from rats is even worse.

Also outdoor and feral cats. No need to invite them in.

Cats > Mice

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>>92412049
>saying that Jews can possibly be bad in any way
Look at this anti-semite

>>92411745
I can kinda get that, but to me it just made the entire plot slow and draggy with no real payoff or conclusion other than it ending. Then again I have a strong distaste for slice-of-life type stories, so I might not be the audience for this stuff.

>>92411321
I learn Polish have been always racists.
If they are smarter they would be the one who did the Holocaust.

>>92411345
>JEWS!!!!!!
Yes but I still think it's a good piece of work, I forget if there were mention of gas chambers though. Also properly functioning incinerators don't spew ash.

Kitler did nothing wrong.

>>92411895
>arthouse

Not even. Maus is designed for the widest audience it could hit. Simple art and a straight forward narrative

>>92412578
People always call Maus "arthouse" because of literally every other fucking thing Spiegelman did, which is unbelievably annoying because it makes normies think all you have to do to be "arthouse" is publish some basic fucking doodles.

>>92411321
It's fun, it's good.
The only thing is you never get to see kitler.

>>92411321
I got banned the last time I posted my views on it.

>>92413101
That made me laugh.
Also, do it anon, do you fear the mod man that much

>>92413059
So that explains 80% of what Fantagraphics publishes

>>92411345
The Day of the Trap will arrive soon.

Splat the (((Rat)))!

Pest control now!

No one has posted the "I'm a furry" comic where they discover Maus?

>>92411991
STANDOH POWAH

>>92411321
He did a good job contrasting the struggles of his father's past with his current miserly, stingy attitude at old age in America.

It's a fucking shame that his mother's journals were burned.

>>92411321
Read the first book and liked it
Own both books just need to get around to reading it.

>>92413059
>People always call Maus "arthouse" because of literally every other fucking thing Spiegelman did
Things like the Garbage Pail Kids?

My first and only exposure to it was from a storytime of both parts on /co/
Very nice story, I wish more parts of it could've been told but I guess there was no way he could've known what would happen

Made a small impression on me when I discovered the first volume in the local library as a kid. Made a bigger impression on me a few years later when I could understand it better, and found both parts of the story. Prisoner on the Hell Planet in particular may have fucked me up a bit.

>>92414243
Vladek is interesting because on one hand you can see how a lot of his stinginess helped him survive in the first place, but it becomes neurotic once he's transplanted to America.

>>92411991
it just works

>>92411321
>>92411345
Some /pol/ Anons actually like Maus because you're not told to believe what Vladek said and that Vladek was portrayed as a cynical cunt who screwed over others unlike depictions in Night where everyone's innocent and stuff like babies getting piked being seen as unrealistic compared to Maus
Also the cereal scene

>>92411321
the cats are total douchebags here

>>92416585
Vladek was completely what /pol/ thinks of Jews.

>implying the holocaust happened

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Maus is in the house

>>92411321
I read it in sixth grade, and got it from a Catholic school library if you can believe that.
It holds up, it does a good job of portraying Vladek as a human (mouse), because unlike in some other holocaust accounts, he's not portrayed as some saintly old man, he was a fucker and a pretty shitty person at times, but he went through enormous loss and that makes him very relatable.

Ever checked out MetaMaus? It's an interesting look into Spiegelman's OCD.

>>92411321
Shouldn't they be rats?

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>>92416680
but it should have

>>92416585
The cereal scene is absolutley hilarious in my opinion.
"THEN JUST SAVE THE DAMN SPECIAL K INCASE HITLER EVER COMES BACK!" Is one of the best out of context lines in any piece of literature ever.

>>92417610
>let the bodies hit the floor
>let the bodies hit the floor
>let the bodies hit the floor
>let the bodies hit the...
>FLOOOOOOOOOOR!!!

>>92417610
>oy vey the nazis glued pennies to the bottom of the pool. millions of jews drowned.

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>>92411563
>>92412303
>>92416680
>>92417610

>>92411321
It's good but it rambles in some places

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>>92417884
>>92417917
>>92417960
>>92418002
>>92418040
>>92418085

thank you, shmooley. 2 shekels have been deposited into your account.

>>92411345
>>pol


it's /pol/ fucking /co/blr

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>>92411970
All fulfill their role in kind. Hate nothing. Love nothing. Merely accept them as they are.

>>92411321

>google "maous"
>not DC or Marvel
>not even steven-universe or invader zim related

INTO THE TRASH

>>92416585
>Night
It was real in his mind anon.

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>>92418138

>>92413354
There's a podcast called Inkstuds that did an interview with Gilbert Hernandez from Love and Rockets

He says the biggest problem with the alt/art scene is people who think they can get by with no artistic ability just because their comic " means something"

Why was the dad such a fucking Jew and a rascist prick

My favorite romantic comedy

>>92416585
I forgot what was the Cereal scene?

It was good.

>>92412100
Mice =/= Rats, you dumbass.

>>92419665
Because Vladek was a real person and Art wanted to portray him as accurately as he could. Art has said that he recognized how his father played into a lot of negative stereotypes, but he felt it was important not to gloss over parts of Vladek's personality that might offend some people or fuel other people's racist beliefs. For what it's worth, members of the Jewish community (like Mala) shit on Vladek for his miserliness.

>>92419665
All of the racists I know became that way because of black people.

>>92421044
>For what it's worth, members of the Jewish community (like Mala) shit on Vladek for his miserliness.

Shitting on Holocaust survivors is pretty common these days:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/105853/breaking-bad-karma

>>92421106
There's a difference between a black person and a nigger anon. I say this because even blacks hate niggers on a conceptual level, arguably even moreso that white supremacists do.

Can't deny that the scene where his father is racist towards the black guy is what I love about this comic. All of the jews weren't these elves that were preyed upon by the germans, they were human too and just like the germans some of them were pretty shitty too. But they are human and we should love other humans. Fuck preachy hollywood that shit was real.

>>92411321
I'm very fond of it. Overrated for sure but I like it. Vladek is an interesting character because of how flawed he is and because of how these unpleasant traits also turned out to be key to his survival. I'm glad it didn't shy away from portraying a stingy jew even though it would offend people. It feels like one of the most real depictions of how things went down in Germany, and it wasn't even too preachy. I empathized a lot more with Vladek than Art.

A few years ago, during a History assignment, my group was supposed to make a school play based on a comic book, and they were originally going to use Captain America until I suggested Maus (because everyone was doing assignments based on superheroes). I wrote the script and I ended up playing Vladek.

Has anyone tried to turn it into an animated movie ?

>>92418138
The best part about your post is that the last image makes fun of what you're doing

>>92421120
>reads article
This person sounds like a complete asshole though. And this article's from a site where you're expected to pay to make comments.

>>92421308
Spiegelman has a very hard line no movies no TV no adaptations of any sort policy towards Maus.

>>92421308
It would have to be very stylized, as if it was animated with smudging and water-colors, rather than cgi, at least for the portions where Vladek is telling his story.

>>92421478
Good on him for trying to keep some form of his artistic integrity.

>>92421478
Makes sense.
An adaptation would add nothing and I don't think he'd want someone to try and make a profit out of something so personal to him.

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>>92411895
Why is there so much hate in the media towards cats?

>>92411321
It's quite good. I think I'm a fan of the subject, especially personal accounts which can show just what life was like at the time. It rambles but in that sense, it shows off what the people were going through (both back then and relating to his father) at the time.

>>92421604
>Why is there so much hate in the media towards cats?
Because there is no great fear of mice and rats for most people, so there isn't much great love for cats. It's easier to put mice in the role of heroes for stories because they're small and cute, and you naturally end up with cats as the antagonists as a result.

>>92421604
The whole hate for cats is mostly from dogfags who never knew how to deal with a cat and resent them for not being like dogs, and thus feel like they have to treat cats like unfeeling spawns of Satan. That, and cultural prejudices like "black cat brings you bad luck".
And cats are easier to turn into villains because they hunt other animals and because they tend to be less overly affectionate and more independent than dogs, which also kind of makes people perceive some intelligence. And that goes with the brawn = good, brains = evil cliche.
And besides, mice are cute and people usually don't fear them.

>>92421044
That's make sense you don't want to gloss over what type of person he really was but from what I got he didn't seem to learn anything from the whole thing except shit happens I guess

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>>92421774
>rats and mice carry disease
>cats hunt rats

I don't get it

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>>92421845
Ah I see, now that makes sense. Do you ever notice that catfags never really have much of a problem with dogs yet dogfags absolutely despise cats? Food for thought personally I like both except small dogs fuck those little bastards.

>>92421958
I have to prefer dogs because of allergies

Small dogs are genetic mistakes

>>92421882
Most mice and rats do not, in fact carry disease any more readily than any other animal. Black rats are the primary carriers of fleas that carry the plague (which also kills the rats), but have mostly been pushed to warm coastal regions by Brown rats, which do not carry the fleas which carry the plague. The biggest problem rats and mice cause is mostly due to their eating habits, and their marking of food with urine so they can find it again later.

>>92421238
That's a point that gets overlooked by people who skim the book and then shit on the metaphor. Spiegelman even casts doubt on his own metaphor in that scene where one of the prisoners claims to be German and when he's talking with his psychiatrist.

To get to OP's question, it's a good book especially in the larger history of comics in the West, not for the subject matter but for helping expand the acceptance of comics into the larger public.

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>>92421958
That's because catfags pretty much need to know at least a little bit about handling pets outside of feeding them and cleaning their shit if they don't want their cat to leave them or die, and that requires some patience. Dogs are pretty easy to train and it doesn't take much to make them like you, but cats are picky and complicated. It's pretty similar to raising a human child, you kind of learn as you go along.
The only catfag that I know that dislikes dogs is myself, and even then I like large sleepy dogs that don't jump on me and beg for affection.

>>92421882
When was the last time somebody you know suffered from the bubonic plague?

More accurately, when was the last time you, or someone you know, even saw a mouse or a rat in your house? When was the last time you brought a cat into your house in order to kill off a rat problem? It's not something that people will regularly associate with the animals. Sure, cats hunt mice and people understand that intellectually, but their biggest association with mice are cute white lab rats and their biggest association with cats are the assholes who scratch you and hide behind sofas.

It's easy to make those people sympathize with the mice.

>>92421532
It's not just the matter of the story being personal to him, but he also really believes in the potential of comics. He made Maus in the form of a comic because he wanted it to be read as a comic.

>>92411321
>How does /co/ feel about Maus?
I feel like I'm going to kill the person responsible for making Maus required reading in my high school

>>92422246

>when was the last time you, or someone you know, even saw a mouse or a rat in your house?

My house has been crawling with those little fuckers for nearly a year. Must be nice not living in a shithole.

>It's easy to make those people sympathize with the mice.

I don't know about that. Most people I know wouldn't hesitate to kill a mouse if they saw one in their home. I think it's just an easy analogy to go with for cartoons and the like.

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>>92422246
Well I have a cat so no I don't see any rats, even when I didn't have a cat I saw no rats. That more sounds like your problem anon.

>>92422432
Why? There are worse picks for require reading, I find the book amusing even.

>>92411321
>How does /co/ feel about Maus?
I feel like I'm going to hug the person responsible for making Maus required reading in my high school. I genuinely enjoyed reading it, and I loved how sometimes when I was re-reading it I would notice something new about it, same with Persepolis.

>>92422818
Try answering some insane shit like
>Find 10 examples of symbolism in this PANEL and explain what they mean
and try to ask me that question again afterwards
It won't happen

If this book is/was actually any good, that burned up my potential for recognizing it; and I *will* kill them

>>92422959
I like Maus but I get what you mean.
I ended up disliking a lot of books I was required to read in school

>>92416585
I wish I could wring Elie Wiesel's neck for all of the damage he's done to the credibility of holocaust narratives and still laughing all the way to the bank.

>>92423719
What's Wiesel done? Not questioning the accuracy of your statement, simply unfamiliar with the topic.

One of my fav graphic novels

>>92412100
You get bubonic plague from fleas, nignog

>>92412174
>the entire plot slow and draggy with no real payoff or conclusion other than it ending.
Holy shit, it's like it was about real life or something.

>>92413101
First rule of /co/ never talk about politics even if it relates to the comic because there are one or two special snowflake mods who will ban a person no matter what their view. Every person whose visited /co/ learns this sooner or later.

>>92416775
That whole scene was the last time the Simpsons made me laugh

>>92423818
The likely hood he actually experienced any of those horrible things in the camps is dubious at best, in fact a lot of people lie about their part in the camps, and not just the nazis, Wiesel for his part when questioned on the reality of his book had to say "it was real in my mind".

>>92423818
I don't have the time to go over it with the depth I'd like since i've got an accounting final in 8 hours, but this should give you a start.
Wiesel really was a holocaust surviver and in 1960 be published Night, his memoir of the experience, which was published in a great many languages, earned him millions, and was lauded by critics and readers. After a few years though, fellow survivors came forward noting inconsistencies and factual errors, extreme hyperbole, alongside straight falsehoods. when called for comment, Wiesel defended the authenticity of the work calling it all of these labels "non-fictional novel, semi-fictional memoir, fictional-autobiographical novel, fictionalized autobiographical memoir and memoir-novel". He had a great personal story available, but because he couldn't be bothered to check facts and because of his choice to spice the story up with lies and hyperbole, you've got people questioning memoirs and holocaust narratives everywhere. I'd link to some articles, but I've got to get back to studying. Just look some of this stuff up later, it makes my blood boil when people cash in on lies, especially when they rely on tragedy.

>>92422432
I was damn glad to read Maus instead of Toni fucking Morrison.

>>92419728
Something about returning a box with Vladek going on the aggressive IIRC

>>92424209
>it was real in my mind
That is from Herman Rosenblatt

>>92424241
counterpoint: I had a late-20s, female, openly white-guilt, less-openly anti-religion English teacher
fucking cunt ruined *reading* in general for me

>>92424321
My high school English teacher was pretty GOAT. Gave the class Kurt Vonnegut and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and dropped Catcher in the Rye from the syllabus because he knew the class would find Holden annoying. He also let us watch Goodfellas one day.

>>92424213
>fictional-autobiographical novel
jesus christ how horrifying

Though, even if Wiesel was a cunt re: his stories, hasn't he done actually useful anti-genocide work for non-Jew groups? I recall hearing something about him helping in Africa or some shit. Though, he does also support Israel.

At the very least, he's good for that one Gilbert Gottfried joke. His life is worth at least this joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iScb7ZPFWHY

>>92411321
one of the exceptions to 'there is no good anthro anything.'

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>>92411321
>>92424419

>>92424521
>sexy holocaust
Oh no...now I'm thinking of smut where a young jewess caught the eye of a young aryan man.

>>92424321
Someone should have brought in books to read in class that they knew she would hate, like Heart of Darkness Or Evola.

>>92424804
I was usually packing Finnegans Wake, the I Ching, or something by Stirner, if those count. I think the Wake might have pissed her off the most, but that's just a hunch.

>>92411321
Its okay. Babby first 6 gorillions story.
I felt pretty alienated with his father issues.

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>>92424781

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Metamaus is a good additional book. Includes good information for aspiring artists.

>>92426248
>The Saga of Tanya the Evil, Issue 1

>>92411321
It's a cool tank.

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>>92426248
And I have heard good stuff about Kraut from Peter Pontiac. A story about a son and his father, a German collaborator.

>>92426223
dude why are you even here?

how does it make sense to hate Jews on /co/ when half of your favorite comic book and cartoon characters were created by Jews?

>>92426342
>how does it make sense to hate Jews on /co/ when half of your favorite comic book and cartoon characters were created by Jews?
Not him but that's an incredibly disproportionate number in the media, seems a wee bit suspicious.

>>92426342
>dude why are you even here?
To shitpost, obviously

>>92426342
That's a mighty fine assumption you've made there. Do you drive a Ford, or a VW? Have you ever ridden in one, would you ever ride in one? Then you'd be taking direct tangible advantage of the labor and innovation of noted anti-semetic figures. Got a cellphone? You can thank the satellite network that was put in place by the rocketry program created by the Nazi rocketry scientists/engineers that the U.S poached in operation paperclip.

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>>92426363
VERY disproportionate, actually.

>>92426342
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFgBs6Gwagk

>>92426394
>Do you drive a Ford
Not him but I do. I call it Dachau because every now and then fumes leak into the cabin and sometimes power to the windows will cut out, also the A/C doesn't work so it gets hot, it's my rolling death camp.

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Ooh, look out guys, /pol/'s here and they're bringing out the big guns: image macros full of unsourced "facts" about the holocaust.

>>92426449
True, but they show their work and some are just basic math and uncommon knowledge, like the one comparing doors of gas chambers.

>>92421604
Cat's are ultra-predators, so whenever you have a story featuring animals and the antagonist is generally going to be a predator, a cat is a good pick. Especially because they are pets and are cute, so we generally don't think of them that way. It adds a little something to the story.

>>92411321
Mediocre post-war story, to be honest.
The only reason anyone says it's a masterpiece, is because it's a comic. Had it been a book, it'd be forgotten like most of works like that.

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People don't actually believe the Holocaust is a hoax, right?

It's still a big joke around here, right?


I guess when I was younger, I assumed most people had met or knew a survivor, but now that most have died off, the possibility of people believing it didn't happen seems more likely.

>>92426551
>It's still a big joke around here, right?
It's a joke until it's not. "Any group that gets its laughs" etc.

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>>92426551
>People don't actually believe the Holocaust is a hoax, right?

I wish, but /pol/ will always continue to amaze me.

>>92426551
You don't?

>>92426412
Add to this that jews make up less than 0.5% of the global population, and only 2.2% of the U.S population.
Look at it this way, if all those media moguls and titans were Native American, that'd raise a few eyebrows, wouldn't it?

Does anyone have scans of the EduManga Ann Frank with Astro Boy? The Mother Theresa one was pretty funny.

>>92426698
>>92426736
While I don't and won't agree that the Holocaust was falsified, I'm certain that most people believe that any person will tend to exaggerate details of things and/or events about which they are made or asked to tell a story. This premise is the origin of the concept of legends. Given the number of persons involved and the increasing prevalence of definitively recorded accounts during that half of the 20th century, it stands to reason that more 'legends' would be recorded than was previously apparently accountable.

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>>92426657
>>92426698

Well I guess knowing actual survivors and victims and talking to them about it solidifies the truth of it more so than if I approached it from an abstract perspective of just nitpicking through statement with poorly sourced material.

Also, I never knew about holocaust denial or anti-Semitic rhetoric until I came to 4chan and saw it coming from white supremacist/neo-nazi sympathizers, so I just assumed everyone saw them hand-in-hand and got the joke.

Y'know, like how neckbeards are made fun of for Bronyism or for cringy militant Athiesm.

>>92426761
Well the majority of mass killings were performed by middle aged or otherwise unfit soldiers that would follow behind army units, then just round up everyone for firing squads. No need for fancy gas chambers or concentration camps here.

>>92426806
> Her dad literally wrote an entire segment about his daughter discovering her sexuality

Hahahaha

>>92426819
>Well I guess knowing actual survivors and victims
Did any of them have a tattoo near the armpit?

>>92411970
>and cats kill everything they can overpower for no good reason.

The cats we hold for pets would live in all-female packs with an orbiting tomcat in the wild, Anon. Killing more than you can eat makes sense when your packmates might be down on their luck today and you collectively got kittens to feed.

>>92426823
Source?

>>92426833

Why do you ask?

>>92426819
>Also, I never knew about holocaust denial or anti-Semitic rhetoric until I came to 4chan and saw it coming from white supremacist/neo-nazi sympathizers
Sure, it's not like there are laws against questioning it... oh wait there are in several countries.

>>92426849
I'm just curious, do you know?

>>92426871

See this is what's so off putting about this whole "holohoax," thing. It's always ends up being this launching point into getting back at the Jewish population for something that most of them wish never happened.

It always ends up spiraling back to stopping the Jews full tilt in everything they're doing now, which just reinforces my belief that the holocaust did happen, especially if there are people nowadays that are so adamantly supportive of trying to convince people of emulating it in some way, shape, or form.

Real life mice and rats deserve to be genocided. Real life jews however do not.

>>92426862

well I'm assuming your asking me a loaded question, but the survivor I knew had the numbers on her wrist.

>>92426977
Not loaded, no.
Just curious.

>>92426967

you see? this is the shit I'm talking about.

"These jews." the complete dehumanization of people into a faceless enemy. I just can't buy it.

>>92426983

oh. well she didn't like talking about the details much. she said giving up on her sister during that time was her biggest regret. she also said the hunger was the worst for her out of everything.


the other man I knew wasn't a survivor, but was living in the US during the war. His entire family back in Austria was wiped out. Every single one. Him and a distant cousin were the only ones left in his entire family.

It was pretty intense to meet and here their stories personally.

>>92426994
It's a kickback from all the dehumanisation of whites that we see today.

>>92426994
Not that I'm defending him, but that's boud to happen any time a label is applied. Hell, on national levels Jewery and the Holocaust are practically synonymous despite the devestation of Sinti, Roma, and other communities. It's a problem of language as much as anything.

>>92427215

>It's a kickback from all the dehumanisation of whites that we see today.

No one is putting whites in camps, shitposting on the Internet and black people being cast in white roles is not actual "dehumanisation" of white people.

>>92421958

I always assume that people who hate cats are control freaks...

And I CANNOT ABIDE control freaks.

File: black-sclera-precio-por-par-lentes-de-contacto-22mm-D_NQ_NP_869021-MLA20679998733_042016-F.jpg (51KB, 500x662px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x662px

>>92427215

what's there to dehumanize? if anything, white do enough to dehumanize themselves.

>>92413469
Someone please do.

>>92424521
>>92413469
this one?

>>92426819
To be fair, there's a lot of controversy about what exactly happened during the Holocaust, like the exact details of the camps and whatnot. I mean, if you look at Maus, some of the things Vladek says about the camp contradicts things other survivors have said (like the band playing at the entrance of the camp).

I'm not saying it's enough justification to completely dismiss the Holocaust as a hoax, there are just parts of me that are curious as to what was real and what was exaggeration or misinformation (both of which would be totally justified considering what people in the camps had to go through, it'd be hard to remember a lot of solid facts from such a horrible time).

>>92411745
It's more about how the behaviors that people link to the negative stereotypes of what a jew is actually stem from behaviors that were necessary for survival during the holocaust. Wheeling and dealing, miserly practices, saving everything that might be useful some day. Just that some people came out of it so broken they couldn't stop trying to save incase they were ever in that situation again later down the line.