As Sam Hyde at the Ted Talk would say >WE LOOKED AT THE DATA

>>92385283
really cooking the ol noodle

based scott adams

>>92385283
That really baked my potato.

really warms the climate in my northern hemisphere

Man, I thought Dilbert was supposed to be good.

This isn't even funny. I feel bad that it's making me mad.

>>92385283
Oh boy, this is sure to be a nice thread.

>>92387317
if you didn't understand it, why does it make you mad?

If global warming is supposedly real, then how come nobody can ever agree on it?

>>92385283
Really makes my penis ejaculate

how much impact do airlines and military jets have on cloud movement?

>>92385283
Really home brewing my cider with this one.

>>92387381
where have you been, gloval warming isnt real, its now CLIMATE CHANGE, which you cant disprove because the climate is always changing

>>92385283
based autistic comic man

>>92385283
Really extrapolates my egg salad

>>92387433
Considering airplanes are smaller than clouds, I suppose it's negligible.

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I'M SPURTIN HERE

>>92387381
Global warming is easy in the basic concept, and hard in the grand scope.

Anyone who denies the mechanism for global warming is retarded. Anyone with access to an IR spec (basically any undergrad) can tell you that green house gases retain more IR energy, and CO2 (along with methane and H2O) work as greenhouse gases. By definition, increasing their concentration in the atmosphere increases the energy that remains trapped in the atmosphere, due to the storage properties of greenhouse gases. Basic. Anyone who argues with that can be proven wrong with simple tools and basic chemistry.

The argument is over how much of an impact that is. Some people then use the existence of that argument to imply that the first (definitively true) statement I made is false.

>>92385283
really strudles my canoodle

>>92387549
>easy in the basic concept, and hard in the grand scope
just like relationships :O

>>92387549
Even the amount of impact isn't in much dispute among scientists. The exact number always needs tweaking (which is how science works), but it's always enough that we should be worried that people are choosing to make it a political issue instead.

>>92387549
Weird, someone on /co/ who actually knows their shit.

The argument shouldn't be about whether it's real, or happening (it objectively is), the argument should be how much of a risk it poses, and what type of response does it deserve.

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>>92387668
>>92387641
Oh yeah, the range of the impact is actually pretty narrow compared to what deniers like to present (ranging from kinda bad to "we're already fucked" in most accepted models) but when people can put forth whatever model they like on conservative blogs... well, whenever there is a small gap in data or disagreement opposing groups like to point at it and go "see! you can't even agree on it!"

It's not my field but I'm used to it. Evolutionary biology then went into Medicine. People act like all science should give hard numbers. Best I can give people is a bell curve estimate and hope they don't sue me because grandma was an extreme outlier.

>>92387847
It just irritates me that people focus on climate change when there are other, more immediate threats to our society, like mass immigration.

>>92388014
How are climate scientists going to combat that?

>>92387847
The main irritation comes that while some people (like me) agree that getting new renewable and reliable sources of clean energy would be a good thing in general, there's a lot of dumbass shit like "carbon tax" that really has almost nothing to do with actually making the Earth greener or more clean and are just token gestures or more restrictions that nobody wants.

Don't get me started on the people who plant forests that don't have the necessary biodiversity and end up dying out.

>>92388047
By switching specialisms

>>92388122
Carbon tax is plain old greedy taxation as usual

>>92388014
Climate change is projected to cause mass immigration though. Even the pentagon thinks so, and they are working on the assumption that such a situation would be a threat to our nation

>>92388332
>>92388122
Arguing about the best methods for a solution is fine, but denying the problem exists (as is common in conservative circles) is the real issue.

I'm more of a fan of stimulating anyway, so government programs to promote solar cell production or cleaner fuels is a better avenue from my outlook... but I'm not a policy maker.

>>92388122

Same here. Also the fact that the push seems to be for wind and solar (despite the fact that both have serious issues) while demonizing nuclear.

Wow, what a fucking shill. He gonna start making comics about the flat earth, now?
I grew up in Manitoba, one of the most dog fuckingly cold places in the habitable zone of Canada, trust me, I see it happen more every fucking year.

>>92388122
>Don't get me started on the people who plant forests that don't have the necessary biodiversity and end up dying out.

I usually like forest planting in the way it's done in sustainable logging. That is to say after you clear an area out, you plant more trees so you can harvest them when they grow up. It's less altruistic and more useful since you won't run out of trees to harvest in an area, but that just means there's more incentive to actually do it besides virtue signaling.

>>92388299
To immigration science?

>>92388408
It's easy to demonize when nuclear sites keep fucking up so badly.

>>92388408
Well clean coal also got demonized but if you actually read about it, it doesn't really seem like that bad of an idea. Definitely not part of the renewable crew but if it creates less pollution I don't see why we hate it.

>>92388122

This is hilarious and exactly what I used to do when I was still trying to call myself conservative.

Yeah, focus your response on two tiny little fractional things that don't really have anything to do with the major problem at hand, so you can "admit" there's a problem but make the guilt 50/50, and feel like you've won the argument.

Your argument, as you present it, should literally just be "yeah, there's a problem, people aren't doing enough and need to do better."

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>>92388401
>>92388122
>>92387641
>>92387549
Look, the people in a position to do anything were given the memo about this shit long ago and that's public record. It's too late.

Enjoy your life as best you can, maybe buy some property on what will soon be a beach if you really care about your immediate kids or nephews or some shit, and be grateful you had a chance to exist and post inane shit on a chinese underwater basket weaving forum at the point right between where human technology became almost godlike and the earth bitchslapped us back to the ice age.

>>92388417

We've come a long way since Chernobyl, and Fukushima had less to do with the technology involved and more to do with poor location. Even then technology has advanced quite a bit in the past decade. You should look into liquid fluoride thorium reactor, there's some cool stuff in the works that would wind up being far more efficient and require far less infrastructure than both wind and solar power combined.

>>92388539
this desu

>>92388597
meant for:
>>92388485

>>92388597
>>92388417
Nuclear would have made an excellent transition technology to minimize the impact of energy needs compared to things like coal or other combustibles while renewable solutions were found...about 30-50 years ago.

>>92387381
>If there is disagreement, then the deniers must be right.

Flawless logic.

>>92388671
Are you implying we have an efficient renewable energy source now? Because if you do please present it because I'd like to know how literally no one has heard of it yet.

>>92388047
Climate scientists don't control the media. Climate science isn't even an actual field. You're thinking of people from various different fields that happen to be studying the climate at a given moment.

>>92388417

From reading his blog, it doesn't seem to me that Scott Adams denies the potential impact of global warming or the science behind it. These days much of his ruminating on the topic seems to be related to trying to urge climate scientists and those involved in that discussion to come up with more persuasive ways to present their findings to the public.

>>92388738
No, I'm implying the work we needed to do to become a stable long-term society had to have started decades ago.

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>>92388777

So we should just do nothing because the people that came before we did didn't do something before?

>>92388670
It's been six years and people are just now being able to move back to some areas of Fukashima. When a natural disaster can do that it's not safe. Not to mention just this week The Hanford site had a major accident which shows just how lax they treat all of this.
>>92388741
And who does control the media anon?

>>92388762
Climate change is never going to be persuasive to the public.

There are more immediate issues like immigration, ones that you can physically see the effects of.

Anything to do with climate change is going to have to be done after a stable society is secured.

>>92388886
>And who does control the media anon?
Money. And the money is in building controversy there shouldn't be any and fearmongering.

>>92388865
I'm not saying we should do nothing.

I'm saying what we do won't matter, and the things we could do that would matter won't get done because the people with the money/power to do them have zero incentive to get them done.

At this point we're essentially banking that some random crazy billionaire will save the human race and that's a pretty fuckin' long shot.

Hoping that America and China and the UAE will stop caring about oil is a fool's bet.

>>92388958

I guess I'm just not ready to succumb to nihilism just yet anon.

>>92388943
Hold on, the controversy is in the vast majority of scientists studying climate change coming to the conclusion that it is real and will large impact on the globe not the people saying they are making it up? Because the way it looks to me, the people saying they are making it up are making bigger cash grabs then the scientists

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>>92388984
It's a tough pill to swallow but once you narrow your circle of concern from all of mankind to your immediate family it get easier

It's still pretty fuckin' depressing.

>>92389021
That's bullshit man, global warming is a scam made up by the same (((jewish))) scam artists that built the holographic planes on 9/11. Open your eyes sheeple. BTW if you have trouble getting it up don't forget to buy my T-treatment pills available exclusively from nudecelebsforfree.web

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>>92385283
>Bill Nye talks about climate change
>>You're a fucking engineer not a climatologist what do you know?
>Dilbert talks about climate change
>>Haha based Adams does it again

>It's a Scott Adams thinks he's a public intellectual episode

He's a flip flopper who sides wtith whoever bullies him the least.

>>92388418
Terrible idea, anon. Sustainable logging growth has an insane lack of biodiversity due to the need for trees that grow straight and fast.

>>92389021

>Hold on, the controversy is in the vast majority of scientists studying climate change coming to the conclusion that it is real and will large impact on the globe not the people saying they are making it up?

Could you provide up to date sources for this? I need reference materials, because I've heard the "97%" statistic was obtained using spurious methods.

>phew, we almost made our air and lakes and oceans cleaner for no reason!

>>92389133
>lack of biodiversity
Isn't the idea to be able to produce a lot of lumber without robbing the atmosphere of the oxygen we need to breathe?

I don't think sustainable logging gives a shit about whether the plots are sustainable without human influence

>>92388539
So how much longer do we have before doomsday?

>>92389128

Adams is pretty open about the fact that he doesn't know all the facts when it comes to climate science. His frame of reference seems to focus largely on the veracity of long-term climate models and their similarities to economic models.

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>it's /co/ uses a comic as a springboard to make a tumblr vs. /pol/ thread

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>>92389182
>depression happens
>greatest generation fights for country abroad then for rights and good wages and welfare at home
>their kids and grandkids, fat off the teet, piss everything away and then lay the shitheap at the feet of the upcoming generation
Millenials are lazy good for nothing who don't appreciate what they've got

>>92387632
Yet in the grand scope, I'm no longer able to get hard.

I'd rather clean the land of immigrants first.

>>92389243
At least they aren't as gay as gen z.

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>>92389215
If you're alive and old enough to post here you hopefully won't see it.

Don't have kids.

>>92387317
The problem isn't necessarily with the comic itself, but, then, that is EXACTLY what makes the comic infuriating.
The comic doesn't actually say anything about climate change, and Dilbert doesn't even imply he disputes climate change (specifically, he asks to dispute the economic models). The "joke" being that they started with basic principles, and started making bets on the outcomes of bets on the outcomes of bets, etc, etc. The comic could be taken just as much as a reference to the fact that climate change models tend to be wrong on the side of being too conservative. Which is to say, things will most likely be much worse and much faster.

But, this noncomittal nature is what makes the damn thing so angering. It is completely fucking sackless. Like those people who refer to themselves as "radical moderates" and such shit.
Scott Adams has no balls, but then that's why he writes a syndicated newspaper comic strip.

>>92389182
This.

I'm not a fan of the classic "Pascal's wager" because it ignores outcomes... but with global warming, it seems thinking like a gambler is the way to go.

Even if it's fake: we reduce air pollution, promote new tech (much of which would be needed for space colonization, given that most areas within reach wouldn't have fossil fuels) and reduce American dependence on oil (which fucks us every time OPEC gets cheeky).

As long as you don't do it too drastically to cause a economic meltdown, it seems the way to go.

>>92389254
Anon, it was never a grand scope.

>>92389363
>I'm not a fan of the classic "Pascal's wager" because it ignores outcomes

Isn't Pascal's Wager ultimatly concerned with outcomes?

>>92389224
except there's no tumblr vs pol, everyone is in agreeance that climate change/global warming is here and even if we salvage what most we can, the future will still suck.

>>92389404
Sorry, quoted the wrong person.
>>92389366

>>92389404
Yeah, but it ignores too many.

Like, what about all the other Gods that require conflicting forms of worship? What about sunk opportunity costs? What about weighted likelihoods?

>>92389415
>everyone is in agreeance
Except the people who don't agree.

>>92389254
>I'm no longer able to get hard
fucking dropped

>>92389437
>Like, what about all the other Gods that require conflicting forms of worship?

The Wager is concerned with Christianity. The "lol one god less" fedora copout is disingenuos at best.

>>92389437

>Like, what about all the other Gods that require conflicting forms of worship?

I don't think Pascal was all that concerned with what some jungle savages think.

>>92389448

Only rural and suburban retards whose opinions don't matter in the slightest in the face of obvious facts then.

>>92385283
>Le models are wrong meme

Why do deniers always have to resort to blatantly wrong arguments?

>>92387381
Because you can make a ton of money doing things you shouldn't be doing if you want to slow climate change.

>>92389599

The author isn't a denier.

>>92389580
Seems like a poor wager if you bet on there being only one horse in the race.

>>92389366
Some of the stuff is great better more efficient wind turbines you can put on a house along with efficient Solar panels that you can mount on your house and tie into a system where you can sell excess power back to the power company. Newer more energy efficient building materials.

Problem is that most the time any talk about global warming now ends in "just give us control and we'll take care of it." which is what derails the issue in the US.

Its like Ted Turner was the last one that promoted some personal responsibility with Captain Planet, though at times it did get laughably out there which caused some to tune things out.

Conservation and Stewardship are what need be promoted. Not that someone else has the answers and they just need the power to fix it.

>>92389597
>Only rural and suburban retards whose opinions don't matter in the slightest in the face of obvious facts then.

The famed liberal tolerance, I see.

>>92389511
But that's not a reflection of the stakes in the gamble. You aren't gambling in a world that only has one form of worship, one god.

It'd be like if you went to a casino with multiple forms of gambling, but only one ever paid out (and you had no way of knowing which). Also, what about interpretations in Christianity that true faith is needed? Taking a "bet" on God is hardly even enough faith to compare to a mustard seed.

>>92389580
Which is why the bet was flawed, he didn't know all the rules people played by. Even in his realm though, was it works or by faith that he would have to gamble? Also, Christianity wasn't even the only religion in the old world at that time. He was making his bet while already playing, so he ignored the other games (Islam, Judaism, Eastern religions) that he should have known about at that time period.

>>92389599
He's just pointing out the intellectual dishonesty which sabotages the whole thing.

>>92389653
Why should the educated aristocrats of early modern france, for whom Catholicism or agnosticism were the only options, care about some primitive tribal beliefs? He was addressing his peers.

>>92389128
He also doesn't buy into evolution, but for some reason /co/ doesn't have a problem with that either.

>>92389691
>But that's not a reflection of the stakes in the gamble. You aren't gambling in a world that only has one form of worship, one god.

See:
>>92389736

You're either misinformed about what Pascal was trying to do, or are deliberatly misrepresenting him.

>>92389658
To be fair, the last decade has pretty well proven that attempting to compromise with conservatives just ends up wasting a fucking ton of money and making everyone mad. We're rapidly moving past the point where action can be postponed.

>>92389736
That is an acceptable explanation for why he made his wager as such, but not a good support for the wager itself.

I can understand exactly why someone made the mistake without lessening the wrongness of it.

>>92389363
>Which is to say, things will most likely be much worse and much faster
lol

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>>92387433
more than you would think.

jet contrails can change weather. it was noticed that the 3 days after 9/11 when no planes were flying. the average high temperature was up.

http://news.psu.edu/story/361041/2015/06/18/research/jet-contrails-affect-surface-temperatures

we could have airliners run their engines richer during the day to produce more contrails. which would raise the earth's albedo, meaning less solar radiation reaches the earth's surface or lower atmosphere. then have them run as lean as possible at night. which would lessen the insulating effect of clouds on lower atmosphere. this slight change would be geo engineering and help fight against global warming.

>>92389792
irst, we can disprove the "God of the Muslims" through other methods, showing how the Muslim God is self-contradictory in light of their own revealed texts. Thus pairing *other* arguments with the Wager--which is exactly what Pascal does in the "Pensees"--can eventually whittle the field down.

Second, even if you were right that you would "lose" if you bet on the "God of the Christians" but the Muslim God existed, you would also still lose as an atheist. No matter what the option is, you stand to gain nothing by remaining an atheist. It would be better for an atheist to "take a shot" at the Muslim God--although such a decision would be misinformed--where at least the possibility of eternal reward exists rather than remaining an atheist.

>>92388762
The issue is twofold: 1. they want to dictate environmental policy without concern for the global realities we face in competition and alternative enegy sources and their costs, and 2. Their argument is "just accept what we tell you because that's science!"

>>92389857
But... Allah is Yahweh is THE LORD. They're the same figure, just with slightly different demands and different cultures worshipping them.

>>92389783
Vague Crystal Ball predictions and Fear Mongering will never win people over.

>>92389977

Then why was Trump elected POTUS?

>>92387317

It normally is. Scott's point about the flawed methodology of climate science is a valid one, but he delivers it at the expense of the joke. I'm kind of disappointed, since Dilbert is almost always great.

>>92388958
>some random crazy billionaire will save the human race
You've been reading too much capeshit. The world doesn't work that way.

Also, every country in the world needs oil or depends on trading partners that need oil. Holding China, the United States and the Gulf Arabs responsible for global warming is a dumb meme.

>>92389957
Not really no. Its why it was a point of contention few years ago trying to make Allah and God interchangeable. And by point of contention I mean some people were killed for suggesting and attempting it.

>>92388485
Nuclear is incredibly safe when its run by people who understand what happens when you fuck up. The problem is business minded folks look to cut costs and corners.

>>92389773
See
>>92389792

He wasn't even the first to make such a bet, Imam al-Haramayn al-Juwayni did it centuries prior with Islam. Christian apologists did it in the 300s.

>>92389857
But Atheists can disprove the "God of X" through their methods, so for them there is only opportunity costs.

Here I was making the Pascal's wager bit as a joke earlier on, but people actually seriously use it to argue? It's not taken seriously by most, and only relevant because of how groundbreaking it was in probabilistic theory.

By that same logic you should pay me five bucks. I'll give you a mountain of gold in exchange.

You have nothing to lose (except for the five bucks, which is minute) and everything to gain.

Before you say worshipers wouldn't even lose 5 bucks, there is a time, money, and outlook cost to worshiping any religion.

>>92389128
>>92389748

Adams has always made it clear his issue is more the blind acceptance of those ideologies because he feels they are based in just as much faith as a all loving God or Space Alien creating us because in all cases their is a large sum of faith required to believe in your stance.

>>92390002
Because he was giving voice to complaints the people had but had gone unanswered.

Maybe we'll find the answers after we search through the rubble of what was the EPA.

>>92389709
> intellectual dishonesty
The only intellectual dishonesty comes from deniers who lie about even the most basic facts

>>92390038

The problem is also building reactors in a place that's tsunami/earthquake prone.

>>92390038
Which is the problem with all forms of energy production but it's a much bigger problem with nuclear. If a mine collapses dozens of people die, the Hanford incident last week had to have 4800 people evacuated.

>>92390103

What is Scott Adams lying about?

>>92389857
> First, we can disprove the "God of the Muslims" through other methods, showing how the Muslim God is self-contradictory in light of their own revealed texts.
You can do the same for the Christian God.

Also, there's no reason to think that that options are merely what people currently believe in the first place. The "correct" religion could just as easily be an as-of-yet unknown religion that currently has zero followers and all currently existing religions are wrong.

Pascal's wager is based on the idea that something is one of the possible answers simply because people believe it and that things that have no believers are not considered as possible answers. There is literally no basis in fact for that assumption, so there is no reason to assume that there is a finite number of potential options. Thus the entire premise, that you have a finite chance at an infinite reward, is based on a premise that has nothing to support it.

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>>92387317
I never really found the comics that good, the show on the other hand...

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>>92389659
I love how these hypocrites call themselves "humanists" yet constantly shit on anyone who they don't personally agree with instead of trying to explain why their viewpoints are correct.

Really makes you ponder, huh?

Nobody cares about climate change because it's not the most immediate problem that's facing society.

>>92387549
>>92387847

The more practical argument is specific. What actions do governments and people take in response? And how does this related in priority with other societal needs and concerns?

>>92388014
Here's one better: Mass immigration is directly related to climate change both coming and going. Climate change can drive immigration, which is an argument we've heard a lot before. But mass immigration also drives climate change. A couple of million extra people in Sweden and Germany lifestiles have a massive carbon footprint from their food and heating alone, not even counting transportation, electricity, infrastructure. And unless they instantly switch to European scale reproduction rates, this problem goes exponential in a hurry.

>>92389128
Dilbert's not challenging the science at all. Just the economics.

>>92390137
That they ignore the models they don't like and that they use economic models to forecast the outcomes of that data.

>>92390135
Also the inefficiencies with the waste production. Can't do jack shit with heavy water cept burying the damn shit.

Coal on the other hand has a very high energy release to input ratio and we do have methods of carbon trapping to cut down or eliminate exhaust problems.

>>92390137
>Models that have er been right
Most models fit records within their respective margins of error

>>92390174
People care... and what?

Do you only react to things in your life that are right in front of you? How's that retirement saving going? Or are you just going to wait until 65?

>>92390276
and how efficient is that trapping? Pretty sure that when you start putting energy into capturing the carbon coal outputs, you don't really come out on top.

Clean coal is a myth.

>>92390269
And so do "Climate Scientists". If I was that selective in data retention I'd be fired.

>>92390319
What?

>>92390317
Just like Global Warming then huh?

It takes effort to get it working since its been largely ignored for about a decade now but if it worked it could result in a possible second cycle fuel.

>>92390304
The people in power are all over 60 and are primarily supported by voters who are over 50. The people with power and their supporters don't care about climate change.

>>92389133
>>92389196

I would think if the shit is used to make durable wood products, it's out of the atmosphere, which is a plus in and of itself.

>>92389366
I'm ok with making a wager. But with the number of charlatans, ideolgoges, and people with big money riding on the outcome, I have no intention of just throwing money at every green bet or regulation out there. There's lots of very smart, rich people with expensive homes in coastal areas. Get them on board.\ first.

>>92390168
Nobody with at least half a pound of grey matter in their brains would call themselves a "humanist". Mankind is a closed book now. The sooner we can focus on a post-civilization scenario, the better.

>>92390411
Clean coal exists, but in practice it's just a talking point. Energy companies never put it into practice because it makes coal more expensive than other forms of energy. It's "largely ignored" because it only exists on paper and is primarily bandied about in order to make the coal industry look like it's doing something when in reality they would rather just fund politicians like Trump who will remove any restriction on them and do away with the need to even think about "clean coal."

>>92390319
>This is what deniers actually believe

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/co/- Video Games

>>92390659
I don't see any video games here you shithead.

>>92391115
Lurk more.

>>92390659
to be perfectly honest the most informed political discussions I've had on 4chan have all been on /co/.

>>92390036
The God of Abraham is the God of Abraham is the God of Abraham, famalam.

>>92391180
I agree

>>92389854
>Thinking air operators will be willing to run engines anything other than leanest possible setting to minimize fuel burn to save cost and extend range.

>>92385283
Religion wins again!

SCIENCE

C A N' T

E
V
E
N

C O M P E T E

>>92389748
>>92390062
> he feels they are based in just as much faith as a all loving God
Funny you should mention that; Scott is a huge supporter of 'the power of affirmations'; that by writing and repeating something 15~30 times a day, it'll become a reality. Positive encouragement alone isn't too weird, but the way he described it in Dilbert Future was pretty much full on pseudo science. Like, if someone wants to pray then whatever, but if you're going to discredit others for having faith in prayer, then turn around and do this shit, it's going to make me serious question the validity of your stance.

>>92387381
Climate change is real insomuch that climate changes over time. What's at debate is if or to what extent humans are playing a role in said change. Long term climate data seems to support that it's all part of normal climate cycles that happen over centuries and such. Personally I think the problem (in regard to humanity's impact) is overblown.

Also part of the problem I have with the "WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR CLIMATE CHANGE" shit is that, of course, it's always directed at the United States. China and, I'm sure, India are way bigger polluters but nobody seems to give a shit beyond making smog jokes about Beijing.

>>92389215
It's been "soon" for like 40 years now. Remember there were predictions about how we'd be seeing mass famines by the 90s and shit.

>>92389128
Does Adams ever claim to come from a position of authority or act like it can't even be debated?

>>92396515
Bro there are mass famines...

>>92392631
They may hold a similar origin but they differ drastically in terms of the actual religion and interpretation.

>>92390460

You're using 'people are being swayed by economical concerns' as an argument FOR the current energy status quo?

Jesus fucking christ.

>>92396515

a) there are mass famiens
b) we didn't see MORE of them because of a few scientists who invented was to make more durable plants

Like, fuck, man

>>92388122
Carbon taxes are generally agreed to be fairly efficient tho

>>92387381
Because it cost companies money to not pollute and that hurts the bottom line

>>92397314
My argument is for the null hypothesis, and being aware of financial biases in all directions. You seem to see this as an us vs them. Or maybe you see imaginary opponents everywhere. "big money riding on the outcome" certainly includes the status quo trying to squeeze out some competitive advantage out of this.

>c. 2017

Why do people defend this dumbass, again?

>>92398762
Because you're incapable of defending yourself

>>92398822
He doesn't believe in climate change, he doesn't believe in evolution, he's an adamant trump supporter, the list goes fucking on.

Watching anons try to justify the workings of a madman by claiming he's really talking about "economics" or "skepticism" or some shit is one of the most pathetic things I've seen on here next to anons unironically agreeing with ben garrison comics.

sure is a lot of not talking about the dilbert comic or cartoon

>>92398854
>He doesn't believe in climate change
No where did he say this, he's just pointing out the absurdity in putting all your faith in climate models that have constantly been wrong.

> he doesn't believe in evolution
Nope, he just mocks the idea of "believing" in evolution and at the same time claiming there's any difference between that and believing in God. Both are ultimately just acts of faith.

> he's an adamant trump supporter
So is a big chunk of the country. What's your point? That people who disagree with your politics are somehow inferior? You lost. Your shrill hag lost. Trump is president. Get over it already.

>>92399096

>believing in a scientific theory and believing in a religion are the same thing

no

>>92399129
Yes. You can call it a "scientific" theory if you like, but in the end you're probably not making the decision to believe it based on actually having seen the evidence yourself. You're still trusting the word of others, making it no different from the creationist who trusts the word of his pastor. In both cases it's an act of faith.

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>>92385283
>climate change is bad
>let's import millions of migrants so our carbon footprint gets even bigger

Really makes you think.

>>92399163
> create a better world
> implying that's what envirofags want
Only if you think "a better world" is one where we give up electricity, running water, and all the other foundations of modern existence and go back to living as savages.

>>92398854
>he doesn't believe in evolution

All religion is just people projecting themselves into the heavens after all, so it'd be highly unnatural for him to not believe in a divine creator.

>>92399154

>you're probably not making the decision to believe it based on actually having seen the evidence yourself.

what the fuck are you talking about? why do you assume that?

hurrr believing in gravity is the same thing as believing in god, you're just blindly trusting the scientists!

>>92399154
>but in the end you're probably not making the decision to believe it based on actually having seen the evidence yourself.

You can look up the data those guys have been using, track it back to the source and all, but not even the Pope can get Moses and Jesus on the phone.

>>92399170
>climate change is bad
>it's human-made
>yet no scientist is proposing that the US and ISIS have very effectively battled it by killing humans

Really activates your almonds.

>>92399203
You have to trust that the data they give you is reliable. That's not any different from needing to trust that your pastor is telling the truth when he tells you he spoke with Jesus. You're still relying the word of someone else, which is an act of faith.

>>92398762
>>92398854
He doesn't seem to be looking at things like evolution or climate change in quite the same way as the average person, he appears to be more interested in the abstract ontological questions behind them than any political goals or debates about concrete issues. He has frequently discussed stuff that I find interesting to ponder and entertaining to read. I think his main goal is to help people open their minds and think outside the box. In his books, he has written some very optimistic words that helped me deal with some personal problems, and I feel pretty grateful for that.

Most of the time when I hear people trash-talking Adams and then look up what exactly did he say to cause butthurt, I feel that the stuff he said tends to be more persuasive than the stuff his critics say. Like for example his Trump posts; he was discussing Trump's methodology but (despite the disclaimers and endorsements for Hillary that he posted at the time) people just kept screaming "he supports Trump, he's a madman, how could he possibly support Trump?!" instead of coming up with counter-arguments against the stuff he said.

Usually his Dilbert comics mention specific political issues pretty rarely and vaguely, which makes them timeless and applicable. I'm a little disappointed that he seems to be breaking that streak in OP's comic. Still, one somewhat off comic won't make me suddenly dislike the guy or his strip.

>>92399163
> clean water, air
> healthy children
> implying those are things that greenies
They want to import more mudslimes. That doesn't accomplish either of those things. And their supposed desire for "clean air" is paper thin considering how much the peddlers of climate change are flying around from place to place in private jets.

>>92399154
The difference is that you actually can go out and test one.

I've personally caused unicellular organisms to evolve into multicellular ones. It just took a few months, and access to some centrifuges. That's it. I also can go look at fossils whenever I like, and I can even examine my own DNA now too. Just because you are uneducated about the process doesn't mean it is "on faith".

>>92399275
>I've personally caused unicellular organisms to evolve into multicellular ones.
Microevolution =/= macroevolution.

>>92385283
B A S E D
According to most liberals you should be in a concentration camp, did you see that interview with bill nye the guy they hired to make a children show for liberals in their late twentys?

>>92399301
Define "microevolution" for me.

Microevolution = macroevolution on different time scales. It doesn't mean "with small organisms". It means "outside of one species".

The organisms I created were no longer the same species as the unicellular ones by definition. If you don't accept that though, there are dozens of times humans have created new species.

>>92387474
it's climate change because some areas end up colder due to global warming (mostly europe once the gulf stream gets fucked) which was too confusing for your average american hick to understand.

>>92399240
This moved past science versus organized religion and into philosophy 101, from the sound of it.

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>>92399303
>According to most liberals
>most

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>>92399255
Enough with the fucking essays. He's a typical conservative that pushes his views in his comic, not the mastermind you think he is. He voted for Bush back in '00 and '04 like anyone else of his ilk because, unlike what you want to believe, he's just your typical american moron who writes a mediocre comic strip.

I fucking hate this board, sometimes.

>>92388762
Scott Adams likes playing both sides.
Paraphrased, "I don't know anything about [TOPIC], so I could be wrong. If I'm wrong, I told you all along I don't know anything, so you shouldn't have listened. If I'm right, it was obvious and you should have listened to me from the start."

Here's an actual quote of this sort of double-speak:
>I’m open to correction on my assumption that the 97% of climate scientists depend on the accuracy and honesty of the handful of people with direct access to the data. Let me know if I got that wrong. If I’m wrong, that supports my point that non-scientists such as myself can’t be expected to have useful opinions on science topics.
>You just witnessed a little trick I learned from President Trump. I gave myself two ways to win and no way to lose. You should try it. It works every time.

Basically he's trolling.

>>92399240
Dude, you have to be fucking braindead to not understand the difference between believing in something supported by evidence vs. believing in something not supported by evidence.

>>92399375
well
maybe there is one liberal out there who doesnt
for all intents and purposes itas all lberals
say all liberals and you get bombarded with a million not all ironically proving that they all think the same
i mean they all think the same way because they are all stalinists wathever they know it or not

>>92399387
Yes but he voted for Bush because he's playing 4D chess, and even though Bush destroyed the economy, killed job growth, and spent trillions on wars that destabilized the world, it was the right thing to do. Look at all the damage Obama's done: got boots off the ground in the Middle East! Job creation kept increasing throughout his term, reaching a record high of decades! Broader healthcare! Spending is down and revenue is up!

>>92389128
>bill nye talks about climate change
people who dont belive in climate change should be publicly executed for breathing my air
>dilbert talks about climate change
he guys, this way you are doing things doesnt make a lot of sense

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>>92399425

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>>92399457

>Did you see the reports of my scandalous behavior on the Internet? The headlines say “Scott Adams Caught Defending Himself Anonymously on Metafilter!” The stories go on to explain that I was posting under the name PlannedChaos and pretending to be the only person in the world who doesn’t hate me. According to the wise and fair denizens of the Internet, this behavior is proof that I am a thin-skinned, troll, asshole, dick, fame-whore, ego maniac, douche nozzle, misogynist. That list might sound bad to you, but keep in mind that I was starting from a pretty low base, so I think my reputation is trending up.

Is this guy for real? He acts like an asshole and then acts surprised that people call him an asshole?

>>92399170

what
how would moving humans from one place to another make clime change worse

>>92399527
That doesn't sound surprised to me at all.

>>92399527

anonymously defending yourself on the internet is probably the most pathetic thing anyone could possibly do

>>92399240
>You have to trust that the data they give you is reliable.

The source usually explains how that data was generated. So you can recrate it from scratch and add whatever tinfoil you think will keep the reptiles from spoofing your instruments.

>>92387381
anon, im still trying to get the evil pper corporations to stop cutting all those trees so we dont run out of oxygen
and the nuclear power plants to stop producing wathever they produce that will cause a nuclear winter
and people who use too much dehodorant from ruining the ozone layer
what about the rainforest? if thats gone we are fucked, the rainforest is constantly in danger and it has 40% of all earrths species
have you seen what teenagers are doing these days?
have you heard what happens with plastic bags? baby lions choke on them
how about those garbage dumps? have you seen them? whats up with that?
how about russia? they talk funny and do things i dont understand
and people acuse the right of fear mongering

>>92399503
bill nye publicly said in an interview that climate change deniers should be in concentration amps because they are dangerous to him
its not a fucking strawman when im fucking quoting him

>>92399538
This is a continuation of his blog post called "I’m a What?"

He's SO SURPRISED that acting like an asshole gets him called an asshole.

>>92399401

>if you say that you're pretending to be a retard whenever you get called out for saying something retarded then you're never wrong

>>92399425
>>92399562
You know the whole point of anonymity is to not distinguish yourself as a retard, right?

If the earth is round then why are there so many people who disagree?

checkmate globedrones

>>92399574
What news sources do you read? Nye literally said that it's appropriate the ENRON guys went to jail. Not "climate change deniers should be in concentration camps"...

>>92399592
t. flatpilled

>>92399457
You mean
>he guys, I don't understand the way you're doing things because I can't grasp scientific concepts so that means it's wrong

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>>92399163

>>92399387
>He voted for Bush back in '00 and '04
I wasn't aware of that, and can't find source. Can you provide it?

And no, he's not a "typical conservative" (but even if he were, I don't see why you're saying that as if it's supposed to be an insult). He often speaks about compassion for fellow humans and the ideals of Dale Carnegie school of thought. A lot of the stuff he says sounds like liberal ideals, and he talks about politics mostly to take the conversation into existentialism and philosophy. I'm not sure where he even sits on a political map.

>>92399584
i do wathever the fuck i want you massive dick chocking faggot

>>92399577
I think he's on like at at least three layers of irony right now dude

>>92399624
No but seriously, if a coal power plant and a PV power plant cost the same to erect, operate, maintain, and eventually decommission, why choose coal over PV? Coal prices go up while PV prices go down, we've already achieved price parity for similarly-sized power plants, there's really no economic reason not to switch, in sunny geographical areas.

And that doesn't even take into account the pollution from coal, and the associated health costs. If that's taken into account, PV comes out far far ahead.

>>92399595
>What news sources do you read?
none
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hkWFf9U17w

>>92399642
I don't think it's irony, I think he got a screw loose during his divorce.

>>92388014
The existence of one problem doesn't negate another. The Conservative party is actively spreading misinformation about a very real global threat. Whether or not they're right on the immigration front is irrelevant. If you consider yourself a Conservative, your party is failing you on the issue of climate change. That's an alternative fact you can get behind.

>>92387474
>IPCC was established in 1988

The term "climate change" as it is used today is probably older than you are.

>>92399659
>why choose coal over PV?
because you are investing millions of dollars into lies and desinformation and nobody should ever trust you regardless of what you say?
because you radicalize people over stupid shit for motives that nobody will understand until all this shit is in history books?
because we know you will never admit to fucking up and will run the we did nothing wrongnarrative until all your flesh turns into dust?

>>92399669
You: "climate change deniers should be in concentration camps"
Bill Nye: "Was it appropriate to jail the guys from Enron? Was it appropriate to jail the people from the cigarette industry? [...] I can see where people are very concerned about this are pursuing criminal investigations."

It's funny that he's not saying what you're saying he's saying. He's saying take them to court, like the ENRON guys and the cigarette guys. Did you even watch the video?

>>92388432
To going to the middle east and shooting up refugee camps, obviously.

>>92399707
>lies and desinformation
How is the cost of a PV power plant lies? You pay the money, you get the power plant, you get electricity. There are literally hundreds of these PV power plants operating around the world...

>>92399691

But why bother making sure the earth is habitable for humans if there will still be brown people everywhere?

>>92399729
if you cant see the problem in that statement and why jailing people who did nothing ilegal as a power maneuver to dominate and opress a certain class of people can be equated to a concentration camp we have nothing else to discuss comrade

>>92388521
What kills me is that global warming first came to mainstream attention when conservative hero Margaret Thatcher gave a speech about it at the UN in 1989. If there was one environmental issue that the right wing should have been on board with, it was this one.

>>92399729

my feelings are more important than facts, and my feelings say that everyone who disagrees with me is a reincarnation of adolf hitler

>>92399754
>jailing people who did nothing ilegal
Again where do you see this statement? He said take them to court. You're making up stuff he never said.

>>92399743
because to achieve that you came up with a climate change hoax
because you are achieving A a better energy solution
but also B a system in wich you get wathever you want through lies and manipulation
and i will never fucking support B, no matter what you want, no matter if you want the exact same thing i want, you dont get to do that to people you disgusting piece of shit

>>92399780
he was pretty fucking clear, if you want this type of discussion i sugest heading to the anime board were you get to argue for hours about the dubious translation of one japanese word.

>>92399786
>because to achieve that you came up with a climate change hoax
Uh, what? With or without climate change, PV is on price-parity with coal (in appropriately sunny areas). This has nothing to do with climate change. As a bonus, you also get way less pollution and way less health problems.

>>92388886
People are only moving back to Fukushima just now because the government is only letting them come back just now. Radiation levels within the exclusion zone were safe within a few months after the incident, but people freak the fuck out over radiation so the government kept the exclusion zone up for six years for literally no reason. And I'm going to make a not-at-all bold prediction here when I say that that Hanford accident will harm no-one.

>>92385283
Here is the deal.
Humans are warming the planet, to the same extent as a fart following you in a store, which is pretty short and small.

The real problem that is affecting the planet, is all the methane sealed under the earths crust that has been sealed away since the planets formation which is now bursting out. The large sink holes that have popped up on the planet are also areas where the climate has changed. So, the earth is warming itself, on its own accord because of how it made itself.

In other words, climate change is the earths cancer, its been there all along, and it just happened to pop up at the wrong time.

>Solution.
Look into terraforming Mars so when Earth meets the same end it can be terraformed back to normal.

Or just crash Axis into the motherfucker and let it freeze.

>>92399807
>he was pretty fucking clear
Yes, he is pretty clear. He says "pursuing criminal investigations". That means taking them to court. He's referring to ENRON and the cigarette industry court cases.

You're completely making shit up.

What the fuck is PV

>>92399808
>Uh, what? With or without climate change
you dont get to move the goal post
this is a climate change discussion
climate change motivated the whole thing
you dont get to radicalize people over lies and then move to well, i dont know about that but now that there is political persecution lets try this other thing instead
like it or not both things are tied now

>>92390135
Again, you are conflating the government over-reaction to nuclear accidents with intrinsic effects. No-one needed to be evacuated after that accident, a bunch of tritium isn't going to harm anybody.

>>92399858
Too bad climate change isn't a hoax and you're just retarded

>>92399659
We should invest in nuclear power stations tbeh

boy what a great thread

love to have my board ruined by stealth /pol/ threads

>>92399858
>you dont get to move the goal post
I'm not. I was talking about price-parity of PV plants with coal plants.
>if a coal power plant and a PV power plant cost the same to erect, operate, maintain, and eventually decommission, why choose coal over PV?
That's what you're replying to, aren't you? I'm not talking about climate change... Or do you just blindly reply to people and assume they're saying one thing when they're saying something else, like for instance someone says "criminal investigation" and you hear" concentration camps."...

>>92399911
That would be a good solution too but the public is far too opposed. PV is a good solution for appropriate climates.

>>92399883
so the fact that the european union is completely fucked because it depends on russian gas and cant just buy gas from the middle east without the concent of russian allies and so far we know that they made a secret common european army, a secret ilegal traitorous army nobody ever agreed to and they never had the right to make only so they can take both russian gas and russias nuclear weapons by force and the fact that it was a massive source of funding for the hillary campaign, hillary who wanted to bomb russian allies in the middle east, hillary who had to give back very charitable donations to her very charitable non profit when she wasnt able to bomb a ton of people and soros who is in the business of destabilizing middle east countries is now in the buisness of funding a lot of strange militant groups in america
and the fact that we know the journalists, the same journalist media empires that donated to hillary were giving us fake footage from middle eastern war zones, the same journalists who want to beat up people who think differently.
All these people are anti climate change then it better not be a hoax because if it is a hoax is treason and their heads belong in a spike

>>92387381
If you don't know what the deal about something is, then it's about money.
Global warming isn't as much of a hoax, there is most likely some influence from human action, problem is the biggest sources of that influence are actually not the ones most liberals are screeching about - starting with 7 billion human beings and the cattle they herd breathing oxygen.
Burning coal does jack shit in comparison.

>>92399949
so the edns jutifies the means? is it ok to lie to people and make them fight each other over lies you told them to get that?

>>92399994
>so the edns jutifies the means?
What the hell? How do you even get that from what I wrote? I wrote that PV plants are as economically viable (moreso if you factor healthcare costs) as coal power plants. What "ends justify the means"? I don't know what you're talking about here. It's like that other guy who says Bill Nye wants to put people in concentration camps. Where are you getting this? Is there a proxy between me and you that alters my posts?

>>92389659
This is so hypocritical and only serves as a pathetic attempt to derail and deflect. Conservatives love to shit on millenials and blue-pilled crybaby SJW cucks, so stop acting like a triggered little victim and defend your autistic PUA cartoon god

>>92399992
Humans exhaling produces less than 10% of the CO2 that coal burning produces

>>92400025
why dont you answer the question?
are you aware that not answering the question is still answering the question?
is it ok to come up with a big lie and use power, money and influence to have everyone belive it going as far to demonize anyone who dares question it just so yuo can replace an unreliable energy source that depends entirely on a resource we are runing out of that produces not very good secondary effects?

>>92400131
there are a lot more humans than coal burning, why not genocide some humans instead?

>>92399983
We got a whole tinman here.

>>92400131
I've found similar data some time, except it related to ALL CO2-emitting fuels, not just coal.
And that's breathing only, you're not considering all the waste (sewage gases).
And, there's still cattle, which as far I remember, is responsible for more CO2 emissions than all human transportation vehicles together.

>>92400218
a conspiracy theory?
on the age of global conspiracys???????
next you are going to tell me 9/11 was an inside job :^)

>>92385283
I see he's gone the way of Johnny Hart and Dave Sim.
> builds flawed strawman
> "Look how flawed he is!"
Go to bed, Adams.

>>92400219
Cattle GHG production is something that environmentalists have long tried to make an issue. Industry and their apologists have just usually dismissed that with the argument "lol u want to regulate cow farts."

>>92400172
Because the total number of humans isn't the issue, it's the amount of greenhouse gases that are produced, and a human being doesn't actually produce that much compared to fossil fuels, which can be replaced with alternate forms of energy. If you think that genocide is a good solution, then by all means go ahead and kill yourself. The rest of us will focus on a more efficient solution to the problem.

>>92390160
That's because Larry Charles was involved.

>>92399983
>>>/pol/

>>92400421
>Because the total number of humans isn't the issue
>it's the amount of greenhouse gases that are produced
>by the total number of humans
a dead human doesnt breathe, a dead human doesnt burn co2 to stay warm or travel or have energy or anything else

>>92400442
Obviously if you are trying to save the planet to save humans, your solution shouldn't involve killing large numbers of humans.

That's almost as close to throwing the baby out with the bathwater as you can get.

>>92385283

Who cares? I'm white; my time is done. Leave the planet to starvation and Sharia. Fuck it. I'm gonna go read some comics now.

>>92400441
you know, during stalins regime people got so massively brainwashed that it was impossible to ever help them
loyals to stalin were used and then sent to death camps when they became useless and they argued about how great the regime was while being forced to work to death

>>92400462
>Obviously if you are trying to save the planet to save humans
is it?
is that really obvious?
do you have any idea how these climate change regulations affect the life of people in impobrished countries?

I think Adams sees himself as the right-wing equivalent of Randall Monroe, at least Monroe keeps the politics to a minimum and xkcd is decent

>>92400442
The vast majority of those greenhouse gases are produced by industry, not by the people themselves. That technology can be changed without needing to kill huge numbers of people. You're just looking for an excuse to justify your own genocidal desires.

>>92399557
>So you can recrate it from scratch
have you? ever?
you could kill yourself and try to see god but most people don't do that as a scientific experiment.

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>>92400552
> Monroe keeps the politics to a minimum
> xkcd is decent
lolwut

>>92399562
>wants to stop global warming
>doesn't want nuclear energy
this is a large portion of the problem

>>92400555
the industry that feeds people?
the indstry that keeps people warm?
the industry that builds houses and provides everything people need?
what other consumers of the industry are there other than people?
there is only one logical conclussion to your ideology, if there is no human alive to cause any harm then causing harm is impossible
thats utopia

>>92400581
I knew you'd post that, but really that's all I can think of where he pushed his politics in your face. The actual comic is pretty influential among nerds, redditors, /g/, etc.

>>92400552
>I think Adams sees himself
please rephrase that

>>92400504
Most regulations (Paris, etc.) make allowances for developing nations. Developing nations will also be the hardest hit by climate change.

So what's your argument?

>>92400596
The industry that does all of that, yes, but can also do that while powered by technology that doesn't produce as much greenhouse gases. By moving away from fossil fuels, we can still support the earth's population while not screwing ourselves over with massive GHG production.

All you've done is construct an absurd position that practically no one seriously supports.

>>92400596
>hurr if we kill everyone, there will be no more war and pain

You've hit argument rock bottom when you end up sounded like a 3rd rate anime villain preaching about their utopia.

>>92400646
you are hitting hard poor nations that completely rely on energy prices either to buy or sell, just look at venezuela, a country whose entire economy depended on gas prices who are now so poor that the goverment is now appropiating bakerys because they claim they are part of a conspiracy not to make bread for starving people.
Face it your ideology kills, im sure the news will run fake footage of that aswell so you dont have to look at all the people you killed tho
Wierd how the same people who were completely against bombing the middle east ten years ago now want to impeach a president because of fear that he wont bomb the middle east enough, that says a lot about you

>>92400729
> You've hit argument rock bottom when you end up sounded like a 3rd rate anime villain preaching about their utopia.
Funny, cause that's exactly what envirofags sound like to the rest of us. You're the people screaming about how we need to tear apart modern civilization because of our supposed sins against "mother earth."

>>92400707
>The industry that does all of that, yes, but can also do that while powered by technology that doesn't produce as much greenhouse gases
arent we all in inmediate danger?
how are we going to stop greenhouse gas emition in china wich is far worse than here?
we could bomb them, we have the technology, we could bomb china and fix this in like ten minutes

>>92400707
>but can also do that while powered by technology that doesn't produce as much greenhouse gases.
dif anon
as of right now that technology doesn't exist in an efficient enough medium that could actually support the world or "the industry" so forcing change would destroy lives by reducing jobs and increasing the cost of electricity for everyone not even counting any "carbon tax" or "government stimulus" which would increase energy costs more or just give the gov't an excuse to tax the people more for minimal results.

>>92400746
> just look at venezuela, a country whose entire economy depended on gas prices
The decline in oil prices isn't the result of climate change agreements, it's the result of cheap natural gas flooding the market.

>>92400729
He's preaching your utopia though, not his.

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>>92400729
>>You've hit argument rock bottom
that was the point friend
worship of pangea as in worship of mother earth only ends up in one conclussion
>but my utopian ideology doesnt involve mass genocide
im sure it doesnt, im sure yours is the first one that doesnt

>>92400788
also this
>>92400780
The USA isn't a the biggest cause of greenhouse emissions and hasn't been since the industrial revolution.

also the USA has no right to force other countries to bend to our rules just like foreigners have no right to change our society.

>>92399358
>>92399700
Yeah, SURE.
Nice try SHILLS!!!

>>92400791
>The decline in oil prices isn't the result of climate change agreements
no but climate changes agreements will be worse
>dont worry, switching to other means of energy production wont empobrish evey poor nation that completely depends on gas prices to the point people there starve to death wich already happens whenever gas prices change
well at least the anual million migrants you take will make up for the billion deaths so...

>>92387381
Conservaniggers get buttmad because global warming means that you have to regulate pollution and implicates their precious oil companies. So they have their propaganda wing of Fox News and the Heritage Foundation make up a bunch of retarded shit to convince the cousinfuckers in the American south that science isn't real.

That's why a few years ago they all said "global warming isn't real," and now they're saying "man-made global warming isn't real" or "w...we don't know! Its still up for debate!" They just want to put the brakes on anything that hurts their corporate overlords.

I just want an excuse to finally tell wahabi shitholes to go fuck themselves. And drop a few bombs on the oil fields for laffs.

Thats a clean energy plan I can get behind.

>>92400862
t. captain assblast

>>92400746
>just adding random arguments to try and change the direction of the conversation you are faltering in

OK

Anyway, Venezuela was an economy that relied too much on one sector. A sector that fell apart due to natural gas. Even the Saudis see that they need to diversify. Venezuela was also just as much a story of populist and socialist mismanagement as it was economics.

>>92400815
>>92400816
He's preaching a strawman utopia. Few are arguing for utopia with green tech, they are arguing AGAINST dystopia.

My point is that you are using infantile talking points. "Mother Earth"? Kill people to protect pangea?

Fuck no. Policy changes that promote green energy don't require mass slaughter. Pretending they do is disingenuous. Also, I don't give a damn about "mother Earth" beyond what it does for me and humans as a whole. It just so happens that keeping the planet we live on healthy is usually pretty good for us.

>>92400845
>also the USA has no right to force other countries to bend to our rules
so you are starting to see the problem with globalism, the eu, the un, imperialism as a whole, climate change regulations, etc
congratulations anon, you are redpilled

>>92400780
First off, no, because even the elimination of any single country isn't going to solve this if everyone else keeps on using fossil fuels. China is a big GHG producer, yes, but so is the US. No one nation is capable of solving this on their own. That's part of the problem. No one wants to move unless everyone else is onboard and moving, because otherwise the whole effort falls apart.

Second, China does want to do something about climate change, provided that it isn't the only one. If it made the first move and the US didn't help too, then China would end up paying the costs for little benefit because we need all the main players working on the problem in order to actually get anywhere. China is stuck looking down the barrel of a massive decline in crop yield if temperatures rise much more, which will lead to much higher domestic food prices and horribly destabilize the country. They obviously want to hang on to power, so they're willing to get onboard with scaling back fossil fuel use, provided the US does too, because otherwise there wouldn't be much point to it.

>>92400896
>you are redpilled
Thanks?

>my parents literally use the "how can climate change be real if its cold in the winter" arguement

>>92400890
> Policy changes that promote green energy don't require mass slaughter
See >>92400853
That's exactly what they end up doing. Lie all you like, you're not fooling anyone. Your shrill hag lost.

>>92400890
>Anyway, Venezuela was an economy that relied too much on one sector
you tend to do that when you are sitting on the biggest known source of gas in the world
do you have any idea how much people in venezuela hate you?

>>92400936
They hate Maduro more, and for good reason. This is his fuck up, not the result of climate change agreements that haven't actually gone into effect yet.

>>92400890
>He's preaching a strawman utopia
you are abusing a slippery slope were you constantly want progress as in moving fowards without ever allowing anyone to question in wich direction we are moving or what is waiting for us there
You clearly are terrifyed of dealing with the consequences of your actions, thats why your solution to everything is to double down, i have no dobut that one way or another progressivism will kill us all not necesary because what you belive in but because of your agressive pursue of it and your horrible inhumane methods

>>92400928
I love that shit, whenever it snows anywhere places like fox news are all about "hurr durr sure is global warming out here XD" yet when they report record heat waves and freak weather they conveniently forget the topic of climate change and can only make jokes about eggs cooking on sidewalks.

>>92400867
Or you could not even waste the bomb. If no one is buying their oil because we've moved on to better sources of energy, they stop mattering.

Okay let's assume you guys are right
>Millions of brown people have land issues and can't deal with the stuff they already can't deal with
>Canada and Siberia become green, opening new fertile lands for Whites
As long as we close the fucking floodgates, we can survive this shit and come out better for it. It's only a bad thing if you really want white people to suffer, by pointless beuracracy tax funds or demographic displacement, or maybe both at once.

>>92400990
How is wanting to generate more of our power through methods that don't generate as much greenhouse gas "horribly inhumane"?

>>92400899
>First off, no, because even the elimination of any single country isn't going to solve this
lets eliminate two
we killed the shit out of those muslims when they refused to cooperate did we not?
how is this any different?

>>92400936
Not at all? Cuz I'm just some random guy on a japanese inspired face posting algorithm.

I know why they made stupid decisions, I don't need you to describe it to me. Doesn't make it a smart choice.

>>92400929
>Implying I supported Hillary
KEK

I like Trump because he's the pendulum swinging too far. The 8 years of Obama were bound to create a backlash, and the dissatisfaction with the economy strengthened that... but by picking a clown who was bound to step on everyone's toes and take everyone with him?

We'll have socialized healthcare and a liberal majority within a decade.

>>92400990
>you constantly want progress as in moving fowards without ever allowing anyone to question in wich direction we are moving or what is waiting for us there

So, like continuing to push environmentally destructive policies and then lying about the impact so you can keep stocks up?

>>92401024
Do you really think that you can stop a tide of literally billions of people moving north because the tropics can't feed their population anymore? No wall is going to stop that, not for long anyway. If you want to keep non-whites from migrating north, the only way you're actually going to be able to do that is by not giving them a reason to risk it in the first place.

>>92401041
> We'll have socialized healthcare and a liberal majority within a decade.
No, Trump's crackdown on your voter fraud will ensure that you people will never get back into power. Once those millions of liberal votes mysteriously disappear, your kind are done.

>>92400954
>They hate Maduro more
they only hate maduro because he was put in power to deal with a country in ruins
they hate the us because the us bombed the middle east to lower the price of gas, destroying their entire economy
not saying that lets be comunists and all live out of our gas a was a good model but god damn you ruined those people just so those 3 am drunk mcdonalds runs would cost you pennys more
thats not to say all the people you actually genocided

>>92401036
thats an end not a means
wanting peace is not horrible and inhumane
wanting peace thrugh killing everyone who doesnt submit to you is

>>92401040
It's different because you don't even know what you're talking about. This isn't an issue of a country or two. This is about the global use of fossil fuels. If other people just carry on producing more and more GHGs by burning huge quantities of fossil fuels, then it won't matter what else you do.

>>92401041
>We'll have socialized healthcare and a liberal majority within a decade.
then real poverty and debt can start

>>92401117
>Implying Trump can even pass voter reform now, with how little political capital he has left.

Maybe if Pence takes over and the Repubs fall in line... but Trump can only act by executive order.

>>92401147
> killing everyone who doesn't submit to you
Only you have been proposing this. So as long as no one listens to you, we'll be fine.

>>92400853
>>92400929
Countries that depend on oil are ALREADY suffering from low prices and not because of the big bad climate scientists.

If anything, your argument goes to show that they need to start moving away from such an economy because it's untenable.
Oil is not infinite so suffering from an oil-based economy crashing is inevitable.

You're just making this bullshit virtue signalling emotional appeal that we just CAN'T do anything about the issue because "think of all the poor innocent people that might die as an economic side effect!" but that has to happen eventually anyway and will be worse if they also have to deal with the full uncontrolled effects of climate change or make no attempt to transition their economy before it's too late.

You're making bullshit excuses to ignore and delay fixing the problems no matter how much worse they get just so you can deny any responsibility.

>>92401041
>So, like continuing to push environmentally destructive policies and then lying about the impact so you can keep stocks up?
i dont have any stocks
you know the difference between you and me? i know the goverment is just another corporation no different from monsato or foxconn

>>92401166
>Majority of personal bankruptcies were due to healthcare costs
>US taxes are nearly the lowest they've ever been in the modern era

Even Trump has stated that the economy does better under liberal presidents. He just forgot he said it, and will deny it while awkwardly walking out of the room or something.

>>92400160
But that has nothing to do with what I said. It's like I'll say "PV is at price-parity or better with coal in sunny areas" and you go "WHY DON'T YOU ADMIT THE ENDS DON'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS? ANSWER THE QUESTION!"

Whoa dude, I wasn't even talking about that, who the fuck shat in your Doritos.

>>92401119
>they hate the us because the us bombed the middle east to lower the price of gas, destroying their entire economy
The US fucking up the middle east caused a brief rise in oil prices. The more recent collapse of oil prices is the result of increased natural gas production.

>>92401117
Only voter fraud I saw were archaic ID laws (for some reason, a social security card, something everyone gets at birth, isn't applicable) and voter registry purges. Both seemed to hurt one side a lot more than the other.

>>92401176
>Only you have been proposing this
right, im the only on here willing to think about the future and were all this is leading us to
then again, if you dare look at the futureyou may not like what you are doing right now do you?
for someone who keeps parroting about the future of the planet you sure are shortsighted, then again this is the way the entire world has been operating for at least 100 years and nothing bad happenned in that century right?

>>92401193
At least I can vote for the board of this one... and I was referring to oil companies. I don't care about you, you are meaningless in the grad debate (reinforced because you don't even own stocks... what are you, 15?)

The problem with libertarian types is they don't account for the fact that there ALWAYS is a government. If you reduce the power of the elected government, other powers step into the gaps. For as long as there have been multiple humans, at least one of them was using his power to get other people to do thing he wanted.

>>92401193
>i dont have any stocks
do you have a bank account? if you do, in a round about way, you own stock

>>92401169
The states will have no problem passing tighter voter laws, and the feds won't challenge them. The SCOTUS will uphold them, and that will only become more true as liberal justices die and are replaced by conservatives. States like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and so on, states that the dims can't win without, will be guaranteed red states thanks to those laws. 2018 will be a good trial run. If the dims are somehow able to cheat enough to pick up seats, then that means we need to make the laws even tighter. If they can't, then the laws worked.

>>92401190
so countries with absolutely nothing but gas, no education or soil capable of producing crops or anything else worth anything should move their economy away from gas just because someone somewhere came up with a scary rumor nobody was ever able to prove?

>>92401230
>Only voter fraud I saw were archaic ID laws
in a lot of states you don't need ID to vote

>>92401230
> Both seemed to hurt one side a lot more than the other.
Yeah, because the dims are the ones relying on illegal votes. So of course voter ID hurts them more.

> 300 posts later

hurry up and hire mods who'll actually do their job, Hiro.

>>92401200
>Majority of personal bankruptcies
majority of national debt is because of wellfare programs

>>92401293
That would reduce traffic, which would reduce ad revenue. So that won't happen.

>>92401288
Whatever helps you sleep and forget the 3 million at night.

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>>92401206
>The US fucking up the middle east caused a brief rise in oil prices. The more recent collapse of oil prices is the result of increased natural gas production.

>>92401117
You can keep lying to yourself all you want but the big bad voter fraud boogeyman is bullshit.
The republicans already did a big multi-year multi-millian-tax-payer-dollar study to show all the blatant widespread fraud that they were just SURE must be happening and they couldn't find shit.

Fraud happens in small enough numbers that it literally doesn't matter and if trump wants to push another investigation and can get the conservatives fund it then all they'll achieve is more wasted money and personal embarresment.
For that very reason, conservatives aren't likely to support any big research.
They already know the results from last time and they get more use out of tricking gullible retards like you with the vague boogeyman of hordes of mexican muslims packed on buses like clown cars voting a dozen times at every voting location in the county rather than the true handful of people voting twice accidentally or otherwise or cases like that woman who placed a vote for trump for her dead mom, or that guy that sued to uncover election fraud and only revealed that he himself had improperly voted in other people's name for trump.

>>92401315
I sleep fine knowing that you dims still lost, and that you'll never be able to cheat like that again.

>>92399840
photovoltaic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaics
Commonly known as "solar power".

The Wikipedia article is slightly outdated, but generally correct that in the colder parts of Europe PV is more expensive than coal (not accounting for externalities such as increased public health costs), but in temperate and hot areas PV is cheaper (as-is, even without accounting for public health costs).

>>92401346
Only in the US is the idea that you should provide ID to vote at all controversial. Only the dims oppose it. Why? Maybe it's because they can't win without cheating? Really makes you wonder.

>>92401248
>(reinforced because you don't even own stocks... what are you, 15?)
no, im just poor
>The problem with libertarian types is they don't account for the fact that there ALWAYS is a government
thats anarchysts
there should always be a goverment
goverment should alaways be held under scruteny
we should never belive the goverment
we should never trust the goverment
if something seems odd then the goverment is lying
we shouldnt be afraid of opposing the goverment
look at the way brits handle it, its not perfet by any means but its an example

>>92401256
>Look at me ma! I'm destroyin representative democracy!

It's easy to paint conservatives who do this as bad guys, given the whole "democracy is a good thing" narrative we usually run with.

>>92401276
>Oil is not infinite so suffering from an oil-based economy crashing is inevitable.
>just because someone somewhere came up with a scary rumor nobody was ever able to prove?
You're either trolling or retarded if you think that oil will magically bubble up from the earth forever in infinite amounts.

Either that or you completely missed the point, either because you're retarded or because you're misunderstanding on purpose for some stupid internet argument technical victory bullshit.

>>92388014
There's no more immediate threat than climate change you fucking moron.

>>92401413
>Look at me ma! I'm destroyin representative democracy!
democracy is neither just nor fair, dont bitch about it, you have rights to compensate for it so the majority doesnt barge into your house and kill you, thats what makes obamas disgusting attacks on rights so horrible, he was probably the worst president the us ever had

>>92401396
>I'm just poor

And uneducated given all the spelling mistakes and baseless opinions.

Challenge authority all you like, but recognize that you will always be near the bottom of the totem pole, regardless of what system you live under.

>>92401413
Only idiots think that democracy is a good thing. The Founding Fathers recognized that democracy is mob rule. All it does is create a society where the masses in urban cesspools are able to run the country into the ground by breeding out of control to get more votes and voting for anyone who will promise them more free stuff to go on breeding out of control. Why should cities be allowed to control the country just because they shit out swarms of nogs?

>>92401421
>You're either trolling or retarded if you think that oil will magically bubble up from the earth forever in infinite amounts.
so yuo kiled them because they were going to die at some point anyways
anon, what happenned to the neighbors dog? did you really see him run away? whats with that shovel and that leash i saw hidden under your bed?

>>92401389
Just about all the western world has tighter voting laws. And think the US is backwards for not having Voter ID laws.

>>92401447
>worst president the US ever had

My oh my, the state of history education in the US sure is abysmal.

So much for rights. Voting rights under attack and Trump (according to his chief of staff) had discussions on ways to limit the first amendment. Wonderful.

My only hope is that everyone in this thread gets a temp ban for a while, myself included. Unless someone starts posting captain planet fast, we are way off base.

>>92401457
>And uneducated
if education is only about spelling errors and stalinist ideology im proud of being uneducated

>>92401481
Hence the Electoral College and things are broken up as they are between systems. They for sure didn't want another Rome.

>>92401509
> Voting rights under attack
Nope. Requiring that you be a citizen in order to vote is not attacking voting rights, because only citizens have voting rights in the first place. Dims are just panicking because they know that tighter voter laws means they will never win an election again.

>>92401509
>Trump (according to his chief of staff) had discussions on ways to limit the first amendment
i dont deal on unbsustained rumors anon, thats how the people in power completely fuck with you
trump is already walking on thin ice with me anyways, one million times better than that old witch tho, you know you fucked up when people are starting to question if you worship satan

>>92401389
I honestly don't care if I.D. is required, nice strawman.My sole point is that the big bad boogeyman of millions of illegitimate votes swaying the election is completely fabricated bs.
Conservatives who beat that dead horse constantly have thrown years and millions of dollars at proving it and have only shown what everyone said all along, that it happens in such small numbers as to be irrelevant.

Both sides commit fraud like the examples I mentioned but only retards like you appeal to this bullshit lie of millions of illegal votes changing elections as evidence that the majority REALLY agrees with you about everything because everyone who triggers you by disagreeing must just be a fake illegitimate vote that shouldn't count. Really makes you think :^)

>>92401509
>My only hope is that everyone in this thread gets a temp ban
you know, if i get a ban for this, its fair
im not going to complain the one time i truly deserve a ban

>>92401569
You claim that you don't care about ID and that it's all fake, but why then are you so afraid of conservatives trying to actually protect the integrity of the system? Oh wait, that's simple. It's because when the system actually works, your people lose. And your people will keep on losing thanks to even better voter ID laws that the states are going to roll out. And with fewer and fewer liberal judges clogging up the courts and trying to corrupt the system by blocking those laws, the dims are done.

>>92401481
Madison himself stated that the President should ideally be chosen by popular vote... and many agreed with him. The only reason we have the EC is because slave states wanted their slave populations counted without allowing them the vote.

Madison recognized this and to keep them at the table, helped broker the 3/5ths compromise and kept the coalition together. He even stated that the people generally made good choices in elected officials.

>>92401563
>Unsubstantiated rumors
Priebus went on ABC (with Jonathan Karl) and openly admitted (even after the interviewer clarified by stating that such an action would require lessening first amendment rights) that the Trump administration was looking into curtailing freedom of expression.

>>92401510
American anti-intellectualism at its finest. Spelling errors are a good sign because... y'know, the internet has a spell check. You saw you were dumb and kept rolling on through. You've made it clear in other ways too, no worries.

>>92401550
The majority of people it prevented voting were citizens though. There were some places in Wisconsin where the county only had ID services open once a month. Then some states try to pull the "it's fair, we will let democrats decide voting regulations every other year" with odd years, so the dems never get to do it. It's just partisan hackery, not actual verification of citizenship.

>>92401674
>The only reason we have the EC is because slave states wanted their slave populations counted without allowing them the vote.
that whole 5% of people who owned slaves sure had a whole lot of power didn't they.

>>92401669
I'd accept tighter voter ID laws if the US actually provided IDs to all of its citizens. As it stands, the regulations bar more citizens from voting than it prevented illegals from voting.

>>92401693
Yeah? That's how money works.

How many southern delegates owned slaves at the convention? Only 5%?

>>92385283
Man I loved Scott Adams growing up, it's a shame he got old and stupid.
That's boomers for ya though

>>92401674
>American anti-intellectualism at its finest.
you do know what an appeal to authority is right?
>Priebus went on ABC (with Jonathan Karl)
i need to hear his exact words

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>>92385283

>Scott Adams makes a comic that conflicts with progressive dogma

>/co/ loses their shit in an instant

And /co/mblr wonders why people call it /co/mblr instead of /co/. . .

>>92401720
Some authorities are there for a reason. People who are educated tend to make better choices on average.

>First of all, there was what he said about opening up the libel laws, Tweeting, "The failing "New York Times" has disgraced the media world, gotten me wrong for two solid years. Change the libel laws." That would require, as I understand it, a constitutional amendment. Is he really going to pursue that? Is that something he wants to pursue?

>PRIEBUS: I think it's something that we've looked at

>>92401674
> Madison himself stated that the President should ideally be chosen by popular vote
That was Madison. He was wrong. The right answer, however, did win out in the end. The electoral college was created, and the country avoided starting down the road to utter shit that a democracy would have guaranteed.

> The majority of people it prevented voting were citizens though
If you don't have ID, then what guarantee is there that they were actually a citizen?

> There were some places in Wisconsin where the county only had ID services open once a month.
So? If you can't be bothered to go through the effort of proving you are a citizen, then why should you be allowed to vote? Only citizens should vote. Can't prove that you're a citizen? Then you don't get to vote, because we can't be sure that you should be voting and allowing an illegal to vote would infringe on the rights of actual citizens by diluting their vote with illegal votes.

>>92401487
Seriously, I can't tell if you're trolling or retarded, congrats I guess.

Let's spell it out.
Your argument is we just CAN'T do anything about climate change or dependence on non-renewable energy because think of all the poor countries who's economy relies on oil, and anyone who disagrees just wants to KILL the POOR people.
Oil, however, is finite, so an oil based economy inevitably will crash unless they diversify their economy.
From your response, you seem to be following at least that far though you're still clinging to your "you just wanna KILL people!" shitposting.

Now the last fairly simple part that you seem to have been unable to infer or purposefully ignored because you're just shitposting;
Planned gradual diversification of the economy starting now(in the past would have been better since they're already suffering from low prices independent of climate boogeymen) will make for a much more successful economic and societal transition resulting in much less collateral damage both in financial cost and human suffering rather than ignoring the problem and waiting till their economy completely collapses to do anything about it

That's just the purely economic logic of diversification and not letting a problem get massively worse separate from considerations of the effect of climate change.

Feel free to just respond with some strawman that I just want to kill the poor people for my climate nazi agenda or whatever, I don't expect any better from you.

>>92388539
you mean like how it was too late in the 70s? This shit has been around for decades and nothing major has fucking happened, don't buy into the "It's too late now!" shenanigans when humanity has lived in hotter environments during the Roman period. We survived the Ice Age and we can survive an increase/decrease in temperatures like the animals we are.

>>92401807
>Some authorities are there for a reason
the people who say im educated mean im rich enough to pay for (some undisclosed) collge degree

im sorry but if your parents put you through college and you ended up serving coffee with some worthless degree then that means nothing to me and there is no reason why it should

Well it means that you are in debt and probably regret a lot of things but in no way does it mean you are right

>First of all, there was what he said
i think i need to be less subtle, i want a link

>>92401828
The system would still have been a representative democracy, not a pure democracy.

Why not provide government IDs to people then? I shouldn't have to prove I am a citizen to my government when they already know I am. The records exist of it regardless of when the DMV was open. For some people in communities I know, it would literally require an entire day to get an ID, and those days typically were during the work week.