What is your honest opinion on Grant Morrison?

>>92291932
Decent writer, made the wrong choice in alienating people in the late 80's/early 90's in an attempt to be punk (a wrong choice I see that a bunch of comics bloggers/reviewers/etc unintentionally follow even when they criticize Morrison), does better at DC and his creator-owned stuff than at Marvel.

>>92291932
A bit preachy sometimes, but I really enjoyed his Animal Man run and Klaus was decent.

>>92291932

Has gotten a bit tired and his output has gotten more repetitive. But he stills knocks some quality stuff out like Nameless.

He's a poor mans Robert Anton Wilson, which is still really good for comic book writer to me.

>>92292001
>late 80's/early 90's in an attempt to be punk

Elaborate.

he says comics books are too serious and should be fun yet he doesn't write fun comics
he's like Moore without good stuff

He's a very good writer when he wants to be but whenever he gets stuck he just relies on metatextual plots to get him out of doing character development

>>92291932
He needs to show up in more music videos doing crazy shit

>>92293679
yeah I agree with this. he's been repeating themes pretty hard

>>92291932
He's shit.

>>92293728
His columns. And in some ways maybe some of his interviews at the time. I think Moore overreacted to Morrison (and besides Moore admits to overreacting to some things, so it wouldn't surprise me) but at the same time after reading some of it I could see why Moore (and Chaykin and others) could get upset at him back then. At the same time I see what he did then isn't that much different from a lot of highly regarded comic reviewers do, except maybe the modern reviewers having somewhat of a larger breadth of comic knowledge.

I still hold Morrison in as much high regard as Moore and Chaykin (whether that's a compliment or insult is up to you), though.

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>>92293741
>he doesn't write fun comics

>>92293785
I see that as being kind of inevitable with a lot of comic writers. Millar, Ellis, Ennis repeat themes pretty hard as well. And even there are writers that aren't as good as them also do the same.

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>>92291932
He's the best case scenario of hit-or-miss where his highs are high and his lows are middling. I think he is in dire need of a good editor, but I can't think of a person alive who could perform the right incantations to get him working on consistently good shit like Nameless. He is absolutely full of himself and he's a shameless self-promoter, but that's what you need to make it in comics. His more minor works don't get tossed around as much as the huge, bombastic stuff he does, but it all helped set a tone (along with Moore) in the cape genre which hasn't really faded. I think his legacy in comics will be similar to the great inventors of the last 100 years: Mainly forgotten except for small circles, but their influences will be felt for generations to come.

>>92294308
>And even there are writers that aren't as good as them also do the same.

There's loads of classical writers in literature that repeat the same themes over and over. No one gives Dostoevsky shit for writing several books about existential themes.

>>92294260
Could you be even more vague, please?

>>92296096
He wrote stuff that offended some people in an attempt to provoke.

>>92293741
read more comics

GOAT

I like him but he should be incharge, do elseworlds

>>92291932
Excellent. So good that many here are forced to hate him because he's too popular.

overrated hack

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looks like mob but old and bald

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He made a purdy lady.

>>92291932
The guy's a genius.
That doesn't necessarily mean that he always produces good comics, but he is a literal genius.
Most of his failures are in losing perspective and forgetting the inherent limitations of his readership or even the original task set before him.
For good Old-God's sake, comics are meant as leisure reading for a youth demographic.

Then there's my pet peeve of how he oversteps his boundaries and takes liberties with canon he himself hasn't established.
(there's an etiquette in the industry, Grant)

All in all, his works are an experience more than an entertainment. High thought-form art rather than pop-culture.
Transcendent obnoxiousness.

One of the best superhero comic book writers of his time.

He's not the best we have in the medium of comics as a whole, but when it comes to Big 2 writing, he's one of the greatest.

>>92304665
>For good Old-God's sake, comics are meant as leisure reading for a youth demographic.
"No."

>>92291932
if you asked me what happened in most of his works, i couldn't tell you, but I'm still emotionally affected

New X-Men is more damaging to the franchise than Austen's run was
fuck him

>>92304982
>Muhgneto

>>92291932
I can admire how clever he is but I don't particularly enjoy reading his comics as I'm more into funner, easier to read more comedy based stuff like Young Justice. His Batman stuff is GOAT though.

>>92291932
I really like him even though he groped me once.

>>92304726
Name me 10 indie comics better than Flex Mentallo.

>>92304816
Anon, I'm not saying it's not capable of entertaining an adult audience, but the medium is standardized as intentionally accessible for younger readers than who Morrison typically attempts to connect to.

>>92305274
Love and Rockets
Annihilator
L'Incal
The Metabarons
Sin City
Hellboy
Prophet
Astro City
Locke and Key
Jackie Chan

>>92305418
*maybe* four of those count.
(but to be fair, 10 was a hard ask)

>>92305552
all of them are creator-owned and published by non-Big 2 companies, though

except Prophet, I guess

>>92294449
It terms of comics: This.

I'd like to get into Grant Morrison. Anyone here have suggestions on which of his comics I should read?

>>92305677
Start at Animal Man then go wherever the wind might take you

it's all pretty good outside of maybe Kill Your Boyfriend

>>92305703
the invisibles and seaguy are godlike

>>92305763
but they get straight into the crazy, Animal Man sort of eases you in

>>92305797
The Coyote Gospel is issue five.

>>92305853
but aside from Coyote Gospel it's pretty standard cape fare for the first half-ish of the run

that's easing in

>>92291932
He's wrote some good stuff, he's wrote some bad stuff, he's alright. But his fans who act like his shit don't stink are cancer

Grant Morrison is my Frank Quietly delivery device, I don't have much interest in his work outside of that. He's too in love with superheroes and that's not really my thing.

Burnham is great too

Flex is my least favorite of their collaborations, maybe tied with JLA Earth 2.

>>92305677
Whatever character you're least invested in

>>92305649
And Astro City.

>>92305763
The crazy is doable in seaguy

Invisibles is a rough first time read because of hopping into the past, and the amount of reference material. Its still a gift that keeps giving.

Seven Soliders of Victory is a good starting read, but its super hero heavy.

Personally I like his work with heroes, it keeps him grounded to something

Grant is a cool guy, the last thing he did that I really liked was Klaus, the whole comic is really perfect.

>>92305274
Stray Bullets, Hate, Acme Novelty Library, Jim, Blammo, Eye of the Majestic Creature, Love & Rockets, Percy Gloom, Sam Zabel and the Magic Pen, Swallow Me Whole, Wally Gropius, Phonogram, X'ed Out trilogy, Starlight/ Superior/ Jupiter's Legacy+ Circle, Ed the Happy Clown, Tom Strong, Top 10, The Maxx, American Flagg!, Nexus

>>92291932
>What is your honest opinion on Grant Morrison?
I like him a lot, but familiarity breeds contempt and you can't have him on an ongoing without it getting tedious. He's also going to want huge changes that are going to be undone eventually (jean grey, dead bats).

I'd love it if DC just offered him a 'take a B, C, or D lister and have fun with him' deal. I think he could run a cool Dr Fate, especially if they went to Jared for it.

Some of his more normie work (klaus) is disappointing.

Mark Millar has been a better writer for the past two decades

i only see himmmmmmmmmmmmmm in nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn MCRM THE FB AV of KJ

muhhhltiversity is gay

>>92306272
I think one of my biggest peeves with Morrison is that he expects to make these large-scale changes unilaterally while working in a shared universe then gets pissy when it doesn't take. If he wanted to shake things up so badly he should have gone editorial or corporate.

>>92306301
>t. Mark Millar

>>92306045
Astro City is creator-owned and started at Image

>>92306532
Flex isn't that good of a book at all
also Morrison wasted based Murphy's art on Joe the Barbarian

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>>92305418
>>92306271
>literally just naming comics that come into your minds
Astro City and Jupiter's Legacy (to give an example from each post) have absolutely nothing on Flex.

>>92306407
>I think one of my biggest peeves with Morrison is that he expects to make these large-scale changes unilaterally while working in a shared universe then gets pissy when it doesn't take
Does he, though? I mean, the Bat-thing was hard, Batman's a fucking tentpole and while people DID love Dickbats, they need Bat for money.

But his changes to X-men were solid.

And I don't know if he really got pissy so much. I mean, they kept blocking him in Marvel so he left, but they let him do pretty much what he wanted in DC and just changed a couple endings.

The dude had a CGI/Prose issue. If they were going to stop anything, they would have stopped that. Cause it was shit.

>>92306552
>Flex isn't that good of a book at all
Source?

>>92306271
>Starlight/ Superior/ Jupiter's Legacy+ Circle

No

>>92306556
Take your shit taste on go on Astro City's part

>>92306407
That is some very bad stuff to do, but every time at least half of his ideas are worthy of being taken up by other writers.
For every dead Jean Grey there's an Emmaclops ship.
For every Final Crisis there's a Serious House on a Serious Earth.
If he had gotten the green-light from some suit the chances are just as bad that the worst of the ideas will be the only ones allowed.
Just remember all those incredibly tragic editorial mandate decisions that have been done to us over the years with nothing worthwhile to show for it.

>>92306720
Final Crisis>Serious House

>>92306582
most people who read it

>>92291932
My all time favorite writer. His Doom Patrol filled me with such joy in highschool. To see a new issue with a Simon Bisley cover on the rack sent my heart racing.
My wish is to see his work break into movies/television, like some of his contemporaries.

>>92306699
Starlight and Superior executes everything Flex does but in a not faggy or pretentious way

his fans are the second biggest fags besides Johnsfags

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>>92291932
I love him so damn much. Animal Man, JLA, The Filth, and the Invisibles all really affected me in a way no other writer ever has.

>>92306744
Them's fightin' mathematical symbols!

>>92306582
Flex is a deeply personal work that tries to be universal.

>>92306821
Kelly's JLA is better

>>92306810
We rather like to think of ourselves as a cult awaiting the coming of the Great Multiversity.

kinda related but my biggest pet peeve is when people give X-Men reading lists and the go from Claremont straight to Morrison
I can't even comprehend that

>>92306867
4u

>>92306794
They're making a Happy! movie

>>92291932
MASSIVELY overrated.

Fleeting glimpses of smart writing and a WHOLE LOTTA 4th grade stupid is mistaken for not-yet-understood genius.

He makes connections in his stories the same way velcro sticks to stuff.
Find a story with fuzzy logic (which happens to be 98% of comic book writing anyway) and *shwack*, INSTANT GENIUS!

>WHAT IF COMIC BOOKS WERE REAL, AND THEY INFLUENCED THE REAL WORLD?
is a concept I literally came up with when I was literally twelve.
It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.

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>>92306867

ehhhhhhhhh.....I read it at the time and I liked it, but damn is it uneven. Obsidian age is a 2/3rds really bad story ( the good third is replacement league and thats great) focused on apache chief of all people, Faith is a character who makes no sense and was never explained. Nazi private school arc was similarly flawed ( good: each league member feels guilt in a unique way. Bad: everything else). the only really good arc is martian manhunter/burning martian.

it's too broken and incomplete to compete with
Morrison JLA

>>92307035
>comic books aren't real
well damn I guess I must be imagining all this shit on my bookshelf, who knew

>>92307035
yikes

Nameless wasn't very good. Burying your story/dialogue in obscure references to ancient pagan religions just makes it a chore to read, even with the back matter of the trade explaining it all.

Chris Burnham was firing on all cylinders though

He can't think, he can't write

>>92307109
I agree, Nameless is definitely one of his weaker works

>>92307120
Ironically this post really made a nigga think hard bout stuff.

probably the least talented of all the UK Invasion writers but best marketer and craziest fans

>>92307148
no, that's Ellis or Millar if we include the second wave

I find his fans don't really like a lot of other comic books
it's weird

>>92307164
>I find his fans don't really like a lot of other comic books
Proofs?

>>92307156
what's wrong with you

>>92307170
every Morrison thread ever

>>92307176
>seriously trying to argue that Millar is better than Morrison
Ellis is more arguable, but for one thing he rarely finishes anything and he really likes telling shitty edgy superheroes-gone-wrong stories over and over

also Transmetropolitan isn't that good

>>92307164
I read ALL KINDS of other books, you shit

>>92307196
>no proofs
as expected

>>92306810
what about Ben'isfags?

>>92307271
do those exist?

>>92307271
Is there such a thing?

>>92307271
he doesn't write a single character people care about

>>92307061
That's right, humour the "insightful" anons among us...
( Just don't tell them about the purely conceptual value of currency, they might really freak out. )

>>92307271
>>92307276
>>92307285
>>92307301

Shitpost memes for idiots aside, Bendis has produced some of the best stories Marvel has.

Don't pretend anything you say in defense of any writer you care about means anything if you can't acknowledge that Bendis can write great stories.

>>92307500
is this a joke? Bendis, is that you?

>>92307500
Like... what?

>>92291932
My favorite comic writer is Warren Ellis; however, objectively speaking, Grant Morrison is a better comic writer.

Sorry, Ellis, but I can't argue with Morrison's prolific body of work.

>>92291932
/co/ doesn't have honest opinions, /co/ has trolls that ruin comics for everyone
how do you not know that?

>>92307549
so which comic that you like did /co/ say was shit

this is a safe space anon, tell us how he hurt you

>>92307565
someone insulted COPRA yesterday and I'm still triggered

>>92307200
you need to stare at this panel more
>>92306821

transmet was great and fuck you he will finish doktor sleepless someday

>>92307509
>>92307518

>Engage me! Engage me! Baby needs attention!

Uh, "NO."
Isn't there a nightly neo-Nazi shit thread that could use derailing more than one of the few actual comic fan threads that /co/ has managed to keep?
Go bug them.
You aren't worth explaining anything to.
FYI: That's a value judgement on you as a person. And I bet deep down you knew that it's right.

>>92307680
go to bed, Brian, it's late

>>92307680
>Oh shit, I wasn't prepared to present evidence! Better resort to insults instead!
Spider-man's death is overrated, and beyond that he's been pretty "meh" to shit, and lately absolute dog shit IF that.

>>92307549
>>92307680

Why is this "hurr durr /co/ is a shithole that just spams negativity and contrarianism like /tv/ and /a/ and /mu/ and every other board here" meme becoming a thing? Is it the cartoonfags who are doing this since their 50 Samurai Jack threads a day all turn into shitflinging or is it the one in a million /tv/ poster spamming uninformed shit that's made all you idiots think this? The board is fine and still one of the best boards on the site. Discuss comics.

Is it the absence of gaythreads that's making us all turn on one another?

>>92307718
USM is 100% overrated

>>92307885
112% actually
people give it praise for shit that didn't even happen

>>92307911
it's honestly one of the most boring Spider-Man stories ever
Marvel Adventures is better, Spider-Girl, Loves Mary Jane, Webspinners, Tangled Web, Marvel Knights, Spidey, Blue, 1602... are so much better
it doesn't make any sense to me

>>92306803
Except both are absolute thrash.

When it comes to capeshit, I don't think anyone can compare to him. Maybe Moore could if he continued writing capeshit into the later half of the last decade, or Milligan if he didn't turn shit. Even for non capeshit comics, he does have a unique voice.

>>92304665
This is the reason capeshit is utter shit and unreadable today. Every writer tries to do "fun" comics without any substance. We went from Morrison and Milligan to Tomasi and Tynion.

>>92308560
so just like Flex then

Grant is great.
Not everything he does, but he has few equals when he is at his best: Doom Patrol, Kid Eternity.
Pretentious? Yes, but everything doesn't need to be light and frothy.

Lobdell's Superman is better than Morrison's Action Comics

I'm reading Book 2 of Doom Patrol at the moment, by far the best thing I've read of his so far. None of the other books I've read ever really clicked with me (Kid Eternity, Arkham Asylum, Animal Man), but I was younger when I read those so might be deserving of a second chance

>>92309018

I gotta say, I have to agree with this. Action Comics was uneven to me. While I liked the general tone, he should have made the story more basic instead of esoteric. The first few issues were great and I would have liked if that tone would have stayed. It was all over the place for me.

>>92309025

The best age for getting into Morrison is early 20s.

>>92291932
>I will need to wait another 10 years before Batman 666 saga concludes
>Multiversity will never be finished

but thanks for making me wait 15 years before you concluded the superman prime saga!

>>92308696
Honestly this. Fun and lighthearted comics of today are like the extreme comics of 90s. People keep talking how great DC rebirth is, but all of them are devoid of any substance, while just trying to ape the same tone. Same for current Marvel. People blame Morrison for using the same themes, but at least he uses a theme rather than writing comfy shit.

he's Moore but for stupid people and a Millar for pretentious people

>>92309096
Most Morrison I've read was in my teens so yeah, probably. 25 now and have a much clearer grasp of what he's going for

I'm surprised so many people like his Batman when he was the one who brought in the whole Batjesus/Superjoker thing that ruined the character for years to come.

>>92310488
I enjoy his Batman because he did those things well. Its future writers that took his ideas and ran with them in the wrong direction. Morrison's Batgod still comes off as likable and vulnerable, Snyder's Batgod comes off as an asshole, and King's Batgod seems kind of inhuman. Morrison did start the trend that ruined modern Batman, but his actual treatment of the character was good imo, its the trend he set that is bad.

Kind of like how Jaws is a great movie, even if the trend of modern summer blockbusters that it started negatively impacted the quality of cinema.