Just watched this

I hope this gets ripped because like fuck am I getting a Hulu subscription.

Does it portray Bob Kane as screwing over other people or just looking out for himself?

From what I understand the only reason he got a good contract was because his dad came with him and unlike the young artists they dealt with he could see the bullshit in their contract

>>92250434
Give me a quick rundown, OP.

>>92250626
If you can't wait, you can always just get a free month or week and cancel out before you have to pay anything.

>>92250434
>talented

they were both dicks

Batman is LITERALLY a rewritten version of a story of The Shadow

finger fucking plagiarized the character wholesale

kane's ghost writers/artists (who NEVER get any credit) did more to give Batman his own identity than either of his "creators" ever did

>>92250694
>Does it portray Bob Kane as screwing over other people or just looking out for himself?
A bit of both. Only really showed any remorse for any of it after Bill had passed and gave some credit. But even still he found new and inventive ways to take all the credit anyway.

Much of the contract seems to be a myth. At least something DC can't produce.

>>92250752
There were no ghost writers. Stories credited to Bill Finger were written by Bill Finger.

The only ghosting were Kane's art credits and times where there were no credits except "created by Bob Kane".

>>92250698
>Bob and Bill came up with Bats. Bill with the best contributions
>Bill pretty much created everything else that defined the character (all the cool, iconic stuff)
>Bob takes all the credit
>Bill dies penniless
>Guy researches Bill to write a book
>Uncovers heirs
>Lawyering gets Bill the co-credit he deserves

More or less but it's also really informative about Bill's life.

>>92250862
So Bill is like Steve Ditko.

>>92252391
I guess in some ways (granted I don't know the full story there). But with Bill zero acclaim or recognition came in his lifetime. He died in squalor while watching one of his creations rake in dough for DC and Bob. Not having a cent to go against them and get credit and just pretty much resigned to be gypped for the remainder of his days while Bob is out there yucking it up. Pretty fucking shitty way to go out. Even his progeny seemed saddled with it all like a curse.

>>92250752
...except the whole point is Bill Finger added all the elements that distinguished Batman from The Shadow. Like a colorful adolescent sidekick, an equally colorful rogue's gallery, a consistent fictional setting in Gotham City, the Batcave, the Batmobile, the BUTLER. Why would you shit all over him when he did more than anyone else to distinguish Batman once it became clear this wasn't going to be cancelled after like 6 issues?

>>92252391
Bill was much worse off and Bob Kane is much worse than Stan Lee.

>>92252391
Steve chose his path. Bill didn't.

>>92250862
damn how needlessly cruel

Why are the stories about early comic creators so fuckign depressing? It's full of people getting manipulated, or stolen from. How come?

I get the feeling a lot of those is because the creators back then didn't give a shit about their creations, finance or rights wise, and once they started to realize how popular their creations became, and how rich they could be, they got mad.

>>92253600
Bill wasn't as creative and talented as Kirby or Ditko.

>>92250698
DC fucking sucks

>>92254538
Where did he say he was?

>>92254509
Probably just the common way things were done and people not knowing better and trying to get some money, any money they could for regular work. That and the medium being fairly new at the time, you just never knew what was gonna happen.

>>92252391
According to Ditko's neighbor, they accidentally got his mail and was astonished by how many zeroes there were on his residual check. They gave it back to Steve because they thought it was a fake letter.

>>92250434
Jim Steranko is a hero for slapping Bob Kane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fadzZwx85e0

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>>92250752
>finger fucking plagiarized the character wholesale
He might have plagiarized Partners of Peril but at least he admitted to it later and then kept adding more elements unique to the character like Robin, Alfred. etc. Essentially, everything that made Batman distinct from The Shadow. And remember, he was following what Bob Kane told him to do with his supposed "creation".

Bob Kane is the one who is 100% responsible for shamelessly ripping off The Shadow, right down to the drawings, refusing to give Bill Finger credit and sticking to his lies until the bitter end.

Read this in case you feel like clearing up things.
http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/389/

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>>92250698
>>92250862
>not mentioning Bob Kane's grave

>>92255483
This is so self-indulgent that I have to wonder if someone masturbated Bob Kane while this was being made.

>>92254638
kek

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>>92255483
Jesus Christ how insulting

Speaking of the Shadow, why does Batman admire him so much while hating other killers like Jason and Punisher?

>>92256199
Different universe
Except when DC briefly published Shadow comics

Come to think of it, Zorro is a killer too

>>92255483
I don't tend to advocate grave desecration, even in the case of people who were proper assholes, but if someone took a dump on that pretentious fucking tombstone, I wouldn't be above laughing.

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>>92255483

>>92250626
https://solarmoviez.to/movie/batman-and-bill-20645/640063-8/watching.html

Online stream, quality is great.

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>>92256199
The real answer is because the whole "You were my biggest inspiration" thing was a half-assed (albeit earnest) attempt to reconcile the two characters and to sort of explain why Batman takes so much from him.
Technically speaking I'm not sure if The Shadow is even supposed to exist in the DC universe since those crossovers seem to take place in their own canon (the new Shadow vs Batman is probably going to do the same thing).

They did address this briefly one time where The Shadow tried to offer a gun to Batman to help him catch a criminal and he refused. And this is presumably one of the less violent incarnations of the character.
And besides, it's The Shadow, what is Batman going to say ?

>>92256340
Doing god's work, anon.

>>92256347
Well it's no different than how the Thunderbird Agents and the Archie superheroes used to exist in the main universe but then didn't when the rights ran out, Shadow's appearances were in the main Batman titles.

And well the other pulp characters do call him out whenever they meet up in Dynamite crossovers so it won't be unusual for Bruce to at least say something, but I guess this is a less blood thirsty version.

>>92250752
When revisionism goes too far.

>>92252391
It's like an extreme version of that, with Finger getting it way worse than Ditko and Kane being 100 times more of a talentless fame whore piece of shit than Stan Lee.

>>92254509
Read about musicians in the early days of recording if you wanna cheer up.

>>92255483
>written by Bill Finger.

>>92256308
Someone ought to just take a sledge hammer right to the middle of it.

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>>92254638
Coulda woulda shoulda

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>>92256347
i think the grey ghost is DC's stand in for The Shadow

>>92257893
Best Batman episode. Fight me.

>>92255483
Oh come on, you can clearly tell his family wrote that. What did you expect them to say, "he died, what a fag, lol"?

>>92258168
Wouldn't put it past him being behind it. I can see his ego and shamelessness on full display there.

>>92254946
>And bitch slapped him across the face and said see you later, Bob baby.
That destroyed my sides. Great to hear him tell that gem about ascot Bob in person. You could see him get broken up when speaking about Finger. Pretty heartbreaking.

>>92257893
Yeah he is pretty obviously supposed to reference The Shadow (as well as 66 Batman).
They even referenced it via the poster on Simon Trent's apartment (which parodies the cover of Shadowed Millions).

Who owns the rights to the Shadow nowadays ?
Or is he already a public domain character ?

>>92255483
>Bob had gotten to the point where he never drew anything. Never drew anything on the Batman comics, anyway. [Sheldon] Moldoff was ghosting them all and when he didn't, someone else did. The only thing I think Bob ever drew was when we'd be out somewhere, in a restaurant or someplace, and a pretty girl would come over to him and say, 'Are you really the man who draws Batman?' Then he could whip out a little sketch for her, a big sketch if she was wearing something low-cut and would bend over to watch him draw.
>One day I'm over at his house to discuss this newspaper strip idea we had and he's talking about who we might get to draw it. I was going to write it and we were going to get someone else to draw it. I'm not sure what Bob was going to do on it except sign his name. I said to him, 'Bob, isn't it disappointing to you that you don't draw any more? You were once such a great artist.' He wasn't but you had to talk to Bob that way.
>He said, 'Oh, no. Let me show you something.' He took me into a little room in his house. It was his studio. I didn't even know he still had a studio. It was all set up with easels and things and there were paintings, paintings of clowns. You know the kind. Like the ones Red Skelton used to do. Just these insipid portraits of clowns, all signed very large, 'Bob Kane.' He was so proud of them. He said, 'These are the paintings that are going to make me in the world of art. Batman was a big deal in one world and these paintings will soon be in every gallery in the world.' He thought the Louvre was going to take down the Mona Lisa to put up his clown paintings. I didn't have the heart to tell him.

>>92259903
And then Bob fell into a vat of chemicals, right?

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>>92259903
>It was all set up with easels and things and there were paintings, paintings of clowns. You know the kind. Like the ones Red Skelton used to do. Just these insipid portraits of clowns, all signed very large, 'Bob Kane.' He was so proud of them
>He said, 'These are the paintings that are going to make me in the world of art. Batman was a big deal in one world and these paintings will soon be in every gallery in the world.' He thought the Louvre was going to take down the Mona Lisa to put up his clown paintings. I didn't have the heart to tell him.

Huh. So maybe The Joker really was partially inspired by Bob Kane.

>>92259903
Every Bob Kane story gives me this feeling of pathetic desperation. It bleeds through in his interviews too. He wants the attention so badly, but he doesn't want anyone looking too deeply. I don't think I've ever seen anyone quite so hungry for legitimacy. We see lots of people who'd sell their first born for fame, but Kane wanted his fame to be deserved. He wanted to be real, and he was a fraud.

>>92260101
Yeah, except he had a ghost creator for them as well.

>>92259903
Come on, finish the story.

>>92254509
Another anon mentioned musicians and that's a valid comparison. But, the way I see it, it comes down to coming from a time when people assumed someone who'd spoken to you face to face and worked with you wouldn't fuck you over. We just assume that's how things operate in the business world now. And if you don't assume that, I promise you'll be fucked over.

But it's also understanding how media was created back in the day. This shit was by contract, and the artists provided a one-time service maybe getting a slice afterward if the piece was successful. But the payment was generally for a single job. And success meant future jobs.

In that way, even if you found a way to have a contract with a company, the work you did was owned by them because you made it FOR them. Just like musicians came in to record a song FOR a company.

That's why, while I recognize it was out of goodness or naivety, it's hard for me personally to feel bad by those "hard-done" by these companies.

Alan Moore is a pretty good example. He signed a contract that he would get the Watchmen property back once it went out of print. It was his way of protecting his creation and saying that it WASN'T FOR DC but rather it was his work he was allowing them to publish (in a sense). The thing is DC used the fuckery of "when it's out of print" to keep printing collections and keep the IP. But that case illustrates the need for a contract, even if that particular one wasn't completely airtight.

>>92259903
Jesus what a sad sad man, it's even more depressing that his ego ruined another mans life I wonder if deep down he knew he was a fraud and a credit stealing bastard

>>92259879
Dynamite owns the rights for quite a while now, despite what some people may think none of the 30s pulp characters are in the public domain.

>>92260428
Alan Moore is a fucking hypocrite so no one really feels sorry for him at the end of the day.

>>92252391
Ditko is an ayn rand whack job and was better off than Bill ever was. He would have ruined Spider-man with his politics.

Lee is a saint compared to Kane

>>92260562
I'm pretty sure Zorro and Tarzan have been in public domain for a while now.
Regardless, thank you for the answer.

>>92252391
I used to think so, but the more I read about Steve the more he seems like apassive aggressive douchebag who thinks he deserves all the credit for spiderman. So I get it when Stan Lee winces at the thought of co-creating spiderman, he still admitted it, but the guy is an asshole at the end of the day.

>>92250434
I thought it was way too self indulgent on the author's part desu.

>>92255483
This is what Stan Lee's grave will be in the future.

>>92254946
>>92258956
>believing a Trump supporter

>>92261057
I agree. That bit was a tad too much at times but he did do a lot of work and helped grease things along so I forgive it.

>>92261206
The fuck does that have to do with anything? It wasn't like Bob wasn't a well known egotistical scumbag.

>>92261362
>egotistical scumbag.
Stan Lee's teacher, indeed.

>>92255483
I'm going to dress up like the Shadow and take a big fat dump on that grave

>>92260428
>he would get Watchmen back one it went out of print.

and then proceeded to do a comic so good, iconic, and original that it will never go out of print.

He has only himself to blame for signing a contract like that.

>>92261206
Ah, I see it's an "Ideology trumps everything" episode, filled with weak writing and moral justifications for actions normally deemed bad in the show when done by everyone else.

Go back to tumblr fag.

>>92262858
That's what Steranko is about, yes.

>>92262519
Do it

Someone should go to Bob's tombstone and add Bill Finger's name there

>>92258168
>What did you expect them to say, "he died, what a fag, lol"?
Yeah, actually. That's what people say of me when I die in WoW, anyway.

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>>92264315
>when I die

>Year of our Lord WRATH OF THE LICH KING + 3 EXPANSIONS
>still playing

>>92259903
Missing the ending.

>So a few months later, I'm up at DC and I ran into Eddie Herron. Eddie was another writer up there and we got to talking and Bob's name came up. Eddie said, 'Did you hear? Bob's getting sued by one of his ghost artists.'

>I said, 'How is that possible? Shelly Moldoff's suing Bob? But they had a clear deal. Shelly knew he wasn't going to get credit or anything...'

>Eddie said, 'No, not Shelly.' Bob was being sued by the person who'd painted the clowns for him..."

>>92259903
>>92265522
Still the best Bob Kane story of all time.

>>92260757
Tarzan is complicated.

>>92250434
Real shame it was tied for the first time to BvS. Bill deserved better.

>>92258168
>implying he wasn't a fag
>implying his family didn't know he was a fag

Yes.

>>92265522
kek

>>92266775
>>92266799
>attacking a friend of Stan Lee

>>92267291
Are you talking about Bob Kane or Bill Finger? Because those comments are about two different people.

>>92267366
Bob, of course. He taught Stan how to be a lying thief.

>>92260428
>Reading from Alan Moore about all the fuckery Mick Anglo received

Moore may be a overrated bitter hack but if there's one thing I agree 100% on him on it's that creators should receive due credit. Moore said that if he knew about how the publisher was fucking Anglo up the ass, he wouldn't have wrote the book.

>>92264434
>3 expansions

Cataclysm
Mists of Pandaria
Warlords of Draenor
Legion

Where's the Stan Lee hit piece documentary? Do we have to wait a few years after his death for it?

>>92269126
There are people on /co/ that like Stan Lee
Let that sink in

>>92250816
bullshit there weren't

you are dramatically underestimating the extent to which false crediting was going on in the industry in the 40s and to a lesser extent in the 50s

probably at least 25-50% of Golden Age comics had people working on them who's exact identity is still unknown because they didn't even bother to keep record of it

some of them were interns or equivalents thereof and weren't even paid

>>92268226
>Moore may be a overrated bitter hack
He's not though. He's fairly rated and not a hack at all.

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>>92250434
>Bill asking for top billing on the episode he wrote for the 66 tv show
>Stars tearing up when he sees it on that big color television
>It's the high point of his life
This is depressing.

>>92254509
>How come?
It's the only business where Jews can't read a contract.

>>92261206
>disbelieving anything Steranko has ever said
I've met the man. He might be a manlet but he IS Nick Fury.

>>92260757
Can't say for sure about Zorro but Tarzan's rights are still highly complicated considering Disney still hasn't got it back.

>>92262519
WHO KNOWS WHAT FECES LURK IN THE BOWELS OF MEN ?
THE SHADOW KNOWS
BRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFT

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>>92271033
That part just about killed me. How rotten and crumby was that. He deserved far more than that being a highlight.

>>92260628
I do. He deserves the Watchmen IP back.

>>92275202
To be fair they tried to give it back around the time the movie came out if he'd give them permission to endless sequels but he told them to fuck off. Too bad they ended up doing Before Watchmen anyway.

>>92275202
No he doesn't, he just ripped them off other characters.

Besides even if he gets it back he'll just put in the League and have Mina rape Silk Spectre or something.

>>92275321
>he just ripped them off other characters
No he didn't. They're pretty different from their Charlton counterparts and even then DC asked him to do it.

>Besides even if he gets it back he'll just put in the League and have Mina rape Silk Spectre or something.
And this would be bad because..?

So Bob got to live the good life being a complete fraud and Bill got the Finger

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>>92269126
The idea that Stan Lee is as big a piece of shit as Kane is laughable.

That said, for the longest time now, I've wanted a Social Network type movie based around Stan and Jack. They have a fascinating relationship.

Too bad this'll never happen now that Marvel is big bucks. Disney would sue that project into the ground.