What went wrong?

Femthor

>>92216412
>events
>constant relaunches
>shitty editors
>fucking over popular characters
>chasing away talent

hail hydra

Avengers Disassembled

>>92216412
Bendis.

>>92216412
MCU

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>>92216412
>What went wrong?

>>92216775
New costumes are better

>>92216761
>>92216775
Marvel was bad long before Disney

1)They don't use the circus of crime anymore
2) Nuklo wasn't seen during civil war

>>92216412
Benis, Brevoort, Quesada, Ultimates, Civil War. These are undoubtedly the top 5 culprits of making post 2000 Marlel insufferable.

>>92216790
I wouldn't mind the new costumes if they had the old figures.

>>92216412
Spiderman

>>92216859
Depends on the artist tbqh, Rocafort's Carol looks good

>>92216923
Also the guy that was on CWII. Dem hips yo

Nothing.

Marvel's got a ton of good shit coming out with something for everyone, young and old, despite what contrarians like /co/ want to say. They've shaken things up so you never know what to expect, progressed the universe in a natural way in events and successors, and the company itself is aiming to get the next generation of comic makers in the door as the old guard sees to it they learn to succeed in the industry.

What can I say? I've always said make mine Marvel and I will yet again come Legacy when we see the old guys help the heroes of the Marvel Universe take on the next big threat.

quesada left and was the only thing keeping the ship afloat

>>92217134
How about you actually edit your books, Alonso?

>>92217163
Quesada planted the seeds for Marvel's current awfulness with OMD and Civil War I.

>>92216753
/thread

>>92217134
>the next generation of comic makers
That's a pretty fancy way of saying DC washouts and webcomic "talent."

>>92217134
This guy gets it.

>>92216412
kamala
Miles
Whor
Riri
etc..

>>92216775
this

>>92217205
civil war 1 was hype as fuck and a bunch of stories that revolved around or out of it that were great

bucky cap
dark reign
secret warriors
world war hulk
annihilation getting zero earth help and nova telling stark to go fuck himself
thunderbolts

omd was shit though, but slott is basically fucking that corpse regardless

>>92217171
Ha ha, very funny, but it doesn't change what I'm saying. Thanks to the movies Marvel can afford to experiment and diversify to reach new people than sell to the same draining pool of fans. Hell, they were willing to do that when Disassembled and Civil War I occurred, well before the MCU got superheroes back into pop culture. Are you really up for endless dominance of solo Spider-Man and morass of X-books forever? Why not shake it up a bit?

>>92217256
Oh, and somehow all other companies aren't immune to less-than-perfect workers? At least Marvel doesn't need to reboot every couple decades or go back to tired old stuff like the Silver Age Justice League team, Youngblood, or a reboot of the Valiant Universe. I'm fine with seeing new work by new people who seem to have promise and give them a shot. You should be, too.

>>92217366
Thanks pal.

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>>92216412
Guess.

>>92216412
Just like with ESPN, the problem was getting bought by Disney.

The Mouse.

>>92216412
They've reached the logical conclusion of trying to build interest with shock events by making Cap a Nazi

Marvel thought sjws would buy their books.

>>92216412
Fucking filthy greed and no respect for the source material.

>>92220277
It's fascinating how the MCU takes the approach of exploring it's heroes flaws, whereas the comics flat out character assassinate the (always Silver Age) heroes.

Brevoort favours shock and character assassination, Feige favours heroes being heroes with flaws.

Constant shitty events.
Alonso not getting fired.

>>92216923
>Rocafort's

His everyone looks good. He could make Six-pack look like a sex god

>>92216775
I really dislike the "real clothes stylized to look like a superhero costume" trend that Spider-Woman and Batgirl are doing.

>>92216412
I think it's more the fact that they gradually lost their public's goodwill? I mean, when most people think of Marvel, they think of:
-Boycotting properties they don't have the movie rights to
-Changing stuff in the books to be more like the MCU, even if it looks forced
-Pushing Inhumans in the most clunky way possible, including making the cloud that gives them power deadly to the mutants so they could tie the two franchises
-Replacing old characters or killing some of them for pure shock value
-Annual events that should change everything and end up not living up to the promise

Marvel has some enjoyable books, but that's not enough because due to their many mistakes people will take more time pointing out their flaws than enjoying whatever few good books they put out.

>>92216412

Too many Spider people. Everyone gets a Spider power in the Marvel Universe or are a clone of someone with a Spider power.

>>92216753
This.
>>92216412
Everything, as in Disney and Bendis as the other anon said.
Fuck Whor, nigress kid iron man, Tony Parker and all this shit.

>>92217545
Except Marvel and Marvel studios got separated because they couldn't get along. So now Marvel can't rely on movie money.

>>92216790
No.

Old Carol costume was unique, minimalistic, and it really sold her "flying brick" role. New Carol costume is a rehash of Mar-Vell, just like her new superhero name. Oh and it has military elements, cause guess what, she was a USAF officer in her civilian life, I guess Superman should have a fucking "press" hat as part of his costume

Old Jessica costume was great for her role as an agile spider-themed wall-crawler with sexual undertones. New Jessica costume is, uh, clothes.

I hope the "more modest = better" trend fucking goes away

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>>92223670
It can be done well (see pic related or Ellis' Moon KNight), but most of the time it looks like dogshit.

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>read Christopher Priest's blog
>read the entry in The Crew, written in 2011
>he complains about "the industry's puzzling refusal to engage minority markets"
Dammit, padre! Why couldn't you just stay quiet?

>>92216412
that's a good question

seriously it's so bad you'd think it was owned by Warner Bros

>>92216775
This is retarded
Disney has little to nothing to do with the current SJW shit show that is Marvel Comics print comics
It is the editorial staff and SJW authors encouraged by the faggots in charge

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Remember when people were reposting this image?

>>92216775
This is absolutely part of it.

Removing anything feminine has been a problem for the last decade. It's actually really screwed up that the female characters have to conform to a more gender-neutral look.

>>92226705
You go fast, you stumble.

>>92226705
What's crazy is that Wonder Woman is going to be the first solo female lead movie.

Marvel still hasn't done s*** with black widow or any other of their lead female characters.

DC is already doing pre-production work on Batgirl too...

>>92216412
that your movies don't do as well as ours, dcfaggot.

>>92216412
diversity.

>>92216775
I still think that Captain Marvel was a good direction for Carol, even if no writer has really capitalized on it.

And I think Jessica Drew has always been boring.

>>92226809
>Supergirl
>Catwoman

>>92226938
>Catwoman
More like Vixen, anon.

>>92216412
Everyone is saying Bendis but it was actually Millar who started the whole thing. When he started writing at Marvel the "realism" of his writing was so popular everything was re-written to accommodate it. Marvel basically had a Crisis of infinite earths level of rebooting and at the helm was "gritty realism". Bendis came to power immediately afterwords with his "quirky realistic" dialog we all know and love today.

>>92217545
>At least Marvel doesn't need to reboot every couple decades or go back to tired old stuff

try rebooting every 6 months, that's what Marvel is doing.

and their current event is being outsold by a Batman crossover

Redpill me on femthor. What's wrong with her?

>>92227136
Jason Aaron is a self-loathing guy from Alabama who just discovered feminism so now he has to tell everyone all about it.

>>92216412
>literally adding Sasuke into the MCU

>>92226705
>DC: Hey let's make some cape comi–
>Marvel: LOOK LOOK THIS CHARACTER IS BLACK!!! AND THIS CHARACTER IS GAY!!! AND THIS CHARACTER IS A MUSLIM!!! AND THIS IS A FEMALE VERSION OF A FAMOUS MALE CHARACTER!!! AND THIS IS AN ACTUAL CHARACTER WITH HISTORY ETC BUT WHO CARES WE ONLY CARE THAT HE'S NOW A BLACK VERSION OF A FAMOUS MALE CHARACTER!!! TONS OF "HILARIOUS JOKES" ABOUT SUPERHEROES DOING MUNDANE LIFE SHIT LIKE EATING ICECREAM AND SPEED DATING!!! MARVEL BE OUTIE

That pic is pretty much an excellent summary of what went wrong.

Same with this Bendis guy, what did he do wrong?

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>>92227136

>>92226938
Silly anon, TV don't matter except when it's a critical darling

>>92216855
This.

Marvel has a core of idiots who all stick up for each other because by keeping closed ranks, they avoid having to deal with their own failures. This clique is the illness that is eating away at Marvel.

>>92217134
How much were you paid by Marvel to say this?

>>92226705
The funny thing is, that image is negative here but I'm sure it makes Tumblr happy.

>>92224984
This.

>>92227288
And here-forth the problem. We all know tumblr don't actually buy the books

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>>92217134
>the company itself is aiming to get the next generation of comic makers in the door as the old guard sees to it they learn to succeed in the industry.

>>92216753
Bendis?

>>92227244
Neither was TV. Supergirl I think was only released in theaters in Europe though.

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>>92227244
Supergirl had a movie in the 80s.

>>92226705
It's still true

WB still can't find an audience for WW

>>92216412
When the hell are they releasing season 3 of AoS, Carter season 2, Jessica Jones season 1? Last TV show release was DareDevil a half year ago

>>92226637
His complaint is that he knew that The Crew wasn't going to sell well with white fans, so he was pissed that Marvel wasn't trying to market the book to black fans. He wasn't saying "make every character a minority" he was saying "if you're going to make a minority book, maybe try to sell it to the minority in question"

>>92227359
Marvel:
>Wha- what do you mean tumblr doesn't buy comics? Most of our writers and artist have profiles there and they say that they repost panels from our books that specifically pander to them!

>>92227425
Sure, sure.

>>92227457
In barber shops and boutiques (!).

>>92216790
I don't mind Carol's costume if its under a good artist and nice hair (with exception of MVCI, doesn't show up alot). But Jessica new costume is bland and boring.

>>92227403
It was in theaters here in the US. According to Wikipedia, it was #1 the first week it opened.

>>92227403
>>92227416
I remembered after I made the post

>The actress for that movie is now on the TV show
neat

>>92227215
Some things off the top of my head:
>Civil War II
>Miles Morales ("Muh OC is better than Peter Parker!")
>His run on Guardians of The Galaxy

Anyone got that Carol from the last issue of CHampions?
I think it reached peak "I have no idea what the fuck this character is supposed to look like" and "what the fuck is her hair now?" and "is this still a woman?".

>>92227416
>Her first great adventure.

Her second one had to go TV and be rebooted.

>>92216412
As much shit as Bendis gets, I don't think he's the problem. he's a symptom of the bigger problem that Marvel doesn't really have many talented writers. Bendis is alright in some aspects, but when you put him on 30+ books a month, his quality is going to suffer.

>>92227668
Him having control over so many books is the problem.

>>92227453
Uh, Jessica Jones season 1 is out. The last TV show release was Iron Fist like two months ago.

>>92227653
Not really related. Unless you think Gotham is a reboot of the Nolan movies for some reason.

>>92217545
Hey man why are you dragging Valiant down? They went under by no fault of their own and carved out a nice little nieche for themselves in their comeback. Is it just that you're scared that one day Valiant will claim it's place alongside DC and Image to form the big three?

>>92227762
Supergirl did bomb. And justifiably too, it was a bad movie. Something about female-led cape movies makes everyone get real stupid about them, see also Catwoman and Elektra.

>>92216412
I don't know when it exactly it started but the last straw for me was killing Scott then having everyone piss on his grave.

>>92227818
That still doesn't make her CBS/CW show a reboot of the movie. It's just a Supergirl show.

>>92227457
>The Marvel EIC chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane and, ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in
Priest knows the score.

>>92227850
That anon was just making a joke about how her "first" great adventure was her last.

>>92227955
Yeah that part's fine. The use of "rebooted" threw me off.

>>92227952
Tom DeFalco's an exception here, though he was stuck with only being able to write Spider-Man followed by Spider-Girl.

>>92216412
I can't say I speak for everyone, or the quality of their business decisions but my personal gripes about Marvel are their pricing and the fact that their number 1s are so rarely a number 1. I live in Australia so the minor price discrepancy gets widened by a considerable amount. A $30 Marvel trade here is about two thirds the size of a $30 DC trade, or equivalent to a $20 Image trade. As for the numbering, I got Fractions FF volumes 1 and 2 because they were half price and I liked other Fraction works. However, FF volume one starts at issue #4 and doesn't mention anywhere that the story actually begins in Fraction's Fantastic Four volume 1, something I found out by pure chance by borrowing it from a library. Another Fraction example is his X-Men run, the very first page is about two paragraphs that sum up what seems to be 4 major events, I gave up reading it because I didn't care to go through years worth of X-men comics just to read the one in my hands.

Another thing that annoys me, and from what I gather, annoys many people, is trying to tie every book to some other book. Personally, I was really enjoying All-New Ghost Rider, but then some company wide event that I really don't care about happened and the book with the character I was following has a different name and look now. All-New barely got out of the opening arc before it got shot in the foot by an event. I hear Black Panther was selling well too, but then Marvel added two more Black Panther titles and the sales dropped dramatically, but that's not my place to say.

>>92228024
>Priest always was against married Peter
You know, I thing he should become the next EiC at Marvel...

>>92227818
Not really. If you just tell a good story and focus on the character, instead of making the character's gender into a big deal, you'll get a good movie.

MCU audience pandering + Disney Ownership plus the rise of the social justice movement and execs wanting to capitalize on it

>>92216412
12 billions

>>92217134
I don't entirely agree with this but I actually respect it?

>>92217450

This is actually a good point. For every Marvel Zombies or both comic versions of Civil War, you still get good ideas and stories. For every Fem Thor and Iron Heart, you have Miles and Kamala.

I agree that too many events are a problem since Marvel/Disney mine those for movie plot ideas and in general the Movie Mining practice means we get a bunch of stuff that is stupid along with whatever can be adapted into something good. Also, character assassination stuff--whether Marvel *or* DC are doing it-- can be garbage. Nobody I know of is happy about Cap Nazi Hydra and One More Day was just utter bullshit.

>>92228943
>For every Fem Thor and Iron Heart, you have Miles and Kamala.
For every Fem Thor and Iron Heart and Mockingbird and Hellcat and Champions and Angela and BLM Falcon Cap and Squirrel Girl and...

>>92228423
>I don't like the notion of companies venturing out looking for BLACK writers or LATINO writers. I don't like affirmative action in that sense, and I personally wince at being recruited, these days, more for minority-based projects than for mainstream ones, as if, somewhere along the way, I stopped being a writer and shudder became a BLACK writer. I don't wanna be a BLACK writer. I wanna compete on a level playing ground, and when I can't go toe-to-toe with the best the industry has to offer, it is reasonable and natural for me to sidle off into some other line of work.

>>92217134
Hello Alonso, when are you gonna fire Bendis?

If you work for Marvel, do you have to write stories for whatever events or mcu stuff thay have planned? Or can you write and draw stuff for other continuities or stories they did in the past?

>>92228591
That's yet to happen, though Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel may be different. One could argue that the female-centric Suicide Squad would be an example of a financial success even though the movie itself was a mess for unrelated reasons.

>>92216412
Deciding to sell a political ideology before comics.

>>92226705
Gets retarded by the second half.

>>92226992
Millar didn't get popular at Marvel before Bendis, he got popular on Authority. It was only after Bendis was writing Ultimate Spider-Man for a few months then Millar's Ultimate X-Men was released.

>>92216792
shhh anon, none is interested in the truth

>>92226705
Was this used as a positive or negative view of Marvel back then? I can't tell.

>>92228943
>For every Fem Thor and Iron Heart, you have Miles and Kamala.
I mean, I heard Kamala was popular here and stuff, but is Miles supposed to be a good thing or a hit...? Because I've never heard of him being talked about as either.

>>92227644
>Not mentioning at least his recent run in X-Men, or the Avengers one
I mean, those are hard to ignore.
At the very least he's responsible for fake O5 no one wants and gaybending Iceman.

>>92230620
It's meant as positive about how Marvel is progressive
In term of historical context? It was probably made to show how great Marvel is.
And we all know how things turned out

Marvel's main problem is that there aren't any villains anymore.

The spend their time turning heroes into villains, or anti-heroes into villains, or just flat our making heroes fight other heroes. I mean it's fine for the occasional one-off, to shock people, but when it's the only thing that happens it's just boring.

When was the last time Hulk fought Leader, Daredevil fought Kingpin, or Tony fought against alcoholism?

I guess the problem also ends up with radical attempts to change characters too. If editors and writers find it too difficult to come up with a good new villain story, why not just take the easy way out and change the main character instead? Then you can make 'new' villains, have new interactions with old villains with a new character, or as with Miles, do absolutely nothing with him, and still make money.

>>92228943
>For every Fem Thor and Iron Heart, you have Miles and Kamala.

Miles is written terrible and has zero personality or defining traits outside of black spider-man

Kamala has been in a rut since marvel pushed her too hard and her book got fucked by events.

>>92231568
It's weird because if this sounds like it was supposed to be positive it makes Marvel come off obnoxious.

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>>92232371
You're wrong anon, there are villains in nuMarvel

>>92217450
>world war hulk
Pretty sure you mean Planet Hulk because World War Hulk was trash.

>>92216412
1. Everything.

>>92216412
1) Disney
2) Axel Alonzo
3) Loss of creative talent, and the inability to replace them.

>>92232623
Sort of proving my point there. Absorbing man was not a villain there. He was just a tool so that a point could be made about "How femThor is good and men suck". At no point was he actively participating in a story, he was just a stumbling block so he could be rebuked.

Which is generally what I meant. Stories need some sort of drive, some reason for characters to grow. A good villain is a great way to cause a change in a main character, to make the hero better themselves. It's obviously not the only thing, but for comic books it's pretty great. With current Marvel, villains are only there to prove the main characters right, not to force them to grow.

>>92232623
They're not villains. They're plot-devices to get the heroes fighting themselves or each other.

>>92232443
>Kamala has been in a rut since marvel pushed her too hard and her book got fucked by events.
It's been in a rut ever since Wilson signed the exclusive contract, which pretty much means Marvel gets to mangle Kamala in any way they see fit.

>>92216412
The superstar writer culture

Okay redpill time.

Ultimatley the real reason why capeshit comics will fail, not just Marvel but also DC, is because of continuity.

Yes SJW agendas, normie fans gentrifcation and recent movies play a part but the real reason is always continuity.

All stories need to have a start, middle and end. After a certain point you exhaust all possible good story ideas. So you just come up with shitier and more extravagant plotlines that make no sense.

>>92233718
>All stories need to have a start, middle and end.
Nope. People are still writing Sherlock Holmes stories, and the author tried to give him a definite ending and people hated it so much he brought him back.

>>92216775
wow, that's disgusting.

>>92216412
George Soros. Look it up.

Now he moved on so MARVEL will have a chance to recover. He moved to NetFlix if you're interested. That would explain so much, huh?

>>92234766
Wtf has Soros to do with Marvel

>>92216504
fpbp

>>92232371
>or Tony fought against alcoholism?

He didn't battle it on a regular basis. The first story that happened was in 1979 and the second was in the 80's. And then there was that one scene in Fear Itself that I can't remember if it continued since I dropped Iron Man already by then. And then after that sometimes there'd be references to it but he didn't fall off the wagon as much as you think he does.

>>92216412
Having Bendis stick around about 5 years too long.
Also their giant push for diversity did them no favors either.

>>92234824
Soros, like, runs the woooorld, man

*bong noises*

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>>92216412
let sjw take control

>>92216790
Low quality b8

>>92227815
>They went under by no fault of their own
Nice try. Valiant was always worse than Marvel in the 90s variant spam bullshit "limited edition" boom.

>>92216412
A lot of fanfic writers, tumblr and reddit generations writing "comics for all tastes".

>>92236764
Liberals have always been in control of comics though, Marvel just took it too far.

>>92237665
Liberals =/= SJWs

t. a liberal

>>92237754
Liberals at their very core are sjws.
Not the insane kind at least, just in general.

>>92237665
Hi Cletus.

>>92237838
You probably think everyone slightly to the left of Richard Spencer are "SJWs"

>>92238034
I think I'm remembering a different sjw than others.
I forgot that it's a buzz word now. my bad.
Sorta how autistic is just a straight insult here.

>>92238154
As far as I remember, it has always been an insult.
It's just that originally it only referred to the Tumblr-type radicals and crazies.
Nowadays some people use it as an all-purpose buzzword for anyone who's slightly liberal

>>92238232
I'm thinking pre-internet days, forgive my old ass brain.

>>92238154
>autistic is just a straight insult here
Poor autist, /co/ doesn't respect him.

>>92227172
Self-loathing atheist from Alabama. Guy never has discussed religion with a theologian of any religion. Fuck when I considered agnosticism I approached a Catholic Priest who I heavily discussed US history with and talked with a Puja that a friend recommended to me because he might know someone as well. Talked to a Rabbi, too. If Godbutcher didn't have great art more people who see how shitty it is.

>>92237838
That's like saying "conservatives, at their core, are all Nazis."

>>92237360
Sure, but that was a legitimate strategy in the 90s. Anyway that doen't explain his shitflinging.

>>92227183
>Sasuke into the MCU

What?

>>92216412
They became propaganda