Can they pull it off?

Both films are confirmed to have a $1 Billion budget combined.

How in the hell does Disney expect to make their money back?

>>92213251
I guess it's the grand experiment at this point.

I'm going to make a wager that whomever dies in these two films...it won't hit as hard as Yondu's death

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxqqdATF7w8

>>92213251
It sets the bar so high that no one else can do comic book movies.

>>92213251

Thats what, 500 million each?

Thats only about a hundred million more than Pirates of the Caribbean : On Stranger Tides (or a quarter of the total cost of the movie more).

Or about twice as much as the hobbit trilogy (most of which went towards Battle of the Five Armies).

So yeah sure its a lot, but not stupidly out there.

>>92213119
>Can they pull it off?

Sure

Though I'm going in with low expectations

>>92213251

Toys, comics, shirts, games, junk food, every tie-in possible for years to come.

>>92213119

It would be very painful

>>92213119
If you had asked that question before Guardians of the Galaxy 2 I would have said they could pull it off, but now I am a bit worried. I have loved the marvel climatic universe but its going a bit down hill. Most of my problems with it come from the way its handling humor now. Its just too much sometimes and Im worried that Infinity war will mostly just be jokes.

>>92213119
A-anon, I....

>>92213251
Merchandise, you know all those fucking captain america star/shield shirts you see? Those among other stuff.

>>92215088
I think out of all the movies, the Russos have been the most conservative with humor. The final fights in Winter Soldier and Civil War had 0 quips.

>>92214951

You're a big guy.

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>>92215215

>>92213251
Easily? They'll both pull $1B+ worldwide and will move a metric fuckton of merchandise

>>92215197
This I trust the Russos not going overboard with quips.
They get the tone of the scenes right most of the time.
Their cinematography, on the other hand...

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of course anon

>>92213119
They better spend a lot of time setting up Thanos as a character in Infinity War 1. I was expecting him to be properly set up in GOTG2 or something, but so far all we have is a handful of scenes of him looking intimidating

>>92213119
no. people have been waiting the better part of a decade for it

nothing can live up to that fermented hype. SJ is proof of this

>>92215197
Well, they are directing infinity war which gives me a bit of hope. I do want some humor, but more like they did it in Iron Man and Thor. I know Guardians is meant to be less serious, but they just handled that last movie horribly. Some jokes were great, I was laughing my ass off at the Marry Poppins one, but I did not need half of the fucking tape scene and a lot of the other jokes they put in.

>>92214445
>Pirates of the Caribbean : On Stranger Tides
Was that the fourth Pirates film?

It's so weird that film came out and nobody even saw it (and it still made a billion)

>>92215301
>Their cinematography, on the other hand...

It's fine.

>>92215441
I remember seeing that movie. I remember what the day was like, I remember who I saw it with, I remember what I ate. I have no memory of the actual film. It was completely forgettable.

>>92215515
We tend to forget the plots of the movies. We only remember what we felt watching them

>>92215088
I completely disagree as I thought GOTG2 built upon the first film very well, but I can understand what you mean. We'll definitely see. I think Thanos has to have some really good payoff.

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>>92213119
ITT: Moments that must happen in IW

>>92215563
I guess nothing is a feeling. When I say I remember seeing that film I mean I remember going to the theater to see it, but I have no recollection of that film or how I felt. I get what you're saying though. One of the last movies I saw that I really loved was John Wick 2, but I could not tell you the plot of that film.

If both movies are 2hrs30mins like the last 3 installments, then I think the first the middle 4 hours will be great. I don't think they will make a satisfying enough ending.

>>92215627
I loved GOTG2, and what it did well it did well, but I can't ignore its problems and Im worried that they will only get worse.

>>92215342
I'm fine with that. Don't make your films ads for Infinity Wars, and Thanos would likely disappoint if he's hyped so much in advance. Name one villain who was worth so much buildup that wasn't a letdown.

>>92215721
I think a great example of what your talking about is the Joker from suicide squad. He was hyped up so much and it was a massive let down.

>>92215388
The majority of /co/ knew nothing about SJ before season 5, so that's not a good comparison

>>92215708
To be honest, I think the GOTG and Avengers will mix very oddly. I feel that each of the Guardians have a unique and distinct personality, while a lot of the Avengers sort of double over. Like, how is Rhodey different than Sam different than Hawkeye? I also hope it doesn't have RDJ dominate over everyone. I would love if the others put him in his place.

>>92215721
>Name one villain who was worth so much buildup that wasn't a letdown.
Lordgenome

for most of the first story arc all you see of him is him sitting in his chair just the same.

>>92215455
No it isn't shill. I love Winter Soldier and Civil War but the cinematography is dogshit.

>>92215809
I think Ragnarok is going to be a bit of a bridge between thr Avengers and Guardians. It is definitely more of an Avengers movie, but a lot of it looks stylistically similar to Guardians. As for characters like Rhodey and Hawkeye will basically be background. They will be around for the larger battles. The characters from the Original Avengers movie and the Guardians are basically going to be the movie, probably Dr. Strange to. I also think Peter is really going to piss of Steve.

>>92215912
A show with two seasons and the same creative team? Doesn't count

>>92213119
they can try, but the MCU is dying already

>>92213251
Hollywood budgets are money laundering scams.

Absolutely.
The Russo Brothers haven't let me down yet.

nah it'll suck, the boom is over

CW was like a test if the russians could handle a shit ton of characters. They did good, though wonder how much of a love story this will be with Vision/Wanda, Buckycap and Thanos/Death.

>>92213119
> Marvel studios


Yeah, they got this

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>>92216050
>dying already
>most recent film made $50 million more than it's predecessor

>>92215388
SJ was 10/10 for me in the first 3 episodes, sadly it went downhill after that

it could have been done though

>>92215441
I saw that movie, it was OK

>>92215515
there was a rogue priest who falls in love with a mermaid, the spanish destroy the fountain of youth, and Jack has a swordfight with a girl dressed up as him

>>92213251
nigger were gonna see marketing that will put both minion sequels to shame

>>92219166
>both
they made 3 of those?

>>92213119
No

>>92221351
He posted Avengers Infinity War, not the DC extended Universe non.

>>92221705
>company wars
Could you not?

The bigger question is if they can continue to be as successful post Avengers 4 as they were before and if Avenger 4 can be as close to as successful as Avengers 3. Avengers 3 can make at least Ultron numbers if it is marketed as much as The Force Awakens for comparison, but that cuts into the profit margin I would imagine. After that, hey might worry about people being let down by Avengers 4 if 3 does very well.

>>92221746
It's going to bury Ultron's box office, no question about it.

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>>92213119
Story wise no. Not to Causuals.
Because we have no context on the gems or the guantlet. All we've gotten is a leering purple guy who plans to do... something. All we know about the stones is that they do... magical stuff. And Dr. Strange is making a deal with someone name Dormamu. All these movies have been were setting up characters to face an unknown force in the last two movies. As a matter of fact it probably wasn't planned that way considering at the end of Incredible Hulk, Stark just says he's putting together a team. Heck, in Age of Ultron we saw no one, we know now, in Stark's future vision.

Character wise. No.
There have been no arcs from the characters who've been in more than two movies. Hulk is the only one since he learned to trust people; but that might change in Ragnarok. We still have the Snark with a heart, the boy scout, the fish out of water, the woman with a dark past, the guy that shoots arrows, and the sidekicks. The only thing worth going there for is the interaction between Scarlet Witch and Doctor Strange.

Special and practical effects wise. No.
At least not on the monsters or acrobatic characters. Hulk, Thanos, and Spider-Man all look like X-box 360 games when they move or stand behind the other actors. And Ant-Man always looked a tad out of place in the day scenes.

So in short. Yes. Audiences that watch these movies will love it. Because nothing has changed.

#92221939>>
Also
>write out a thoughtful response
>no one replies
E-et tu, Anon...

>>92221979
>complaining that no one replies 3 minutes after it's posted

>>92222000
>not being a nihilist
>on 4chan

>>92222060
>being a nihilist
>ever

>>92221939
>Story wise no. Not to Causuals.

I dont see why not. People that have been watching these movies from 2008 are casuals and they were able to follow Civil War which essentially is a Avengers film that only works if you've watched the other films.

>Character wise. No

Character wise i'd say this is the easiest to handle. Most characters have successful solo movies about them already. They dont need to do much but give them a good payoff if any are killed.

>Special and practical effects wise. No.

I would agree with you before the Ike Perlmutter split, now i dont, because Doctor Strange and especially Guardians 2 disprove that. I think Fiege now has the freedom of budget to do what he wants. One of the biggest issues in Civil War was that the movie was being made during the huge shakeup at Marvel Studios in which reports came out that Ike was trying to cheapen the production of the movie and Fiege fought strongly against it. On top of that it was a bit of a rush job because they had no idea if the Spider-Man deal would pan out in time. Had the shakeup already happened and Fiege had total control i think Civil War would have looked much better.

>>92214164
> both sides spinning at different speeds

Someone doesn't know how physics works.

>>92213119
>>92213251
It's Disney-Marvel. Even if it's shit it'll rake in a couple billion.

And judging by their track record, it should be pretty okay to great.

>>92215998
I just now realized, Peter should know about Steve. Wonder what his reaction will be when he meets him? If he ever does, I dunno.

>>92222341
>first two arguments
My beef was that nothing had changed in the span of 12 films. Every character was still the same they'd always been even with the rise of more powerful enemies and heroes.
And that even though you could've watched the first five films before avengers ( the only one you really needed to see were Thor and Captain America) it's become even more evident that none of the other films matter once we reach Infinite War. I get that it's going to be split into two parts but all the ""build-up"" the last 16-17 movies have done has given us virtually nothing when it comes to: what the gems do, why we should care about Thanos, the role of the Avengers and all the other superheroes. And if this war really is going to be so bad as they're making it to be, why should we care about a C-lister like Spider-Man's movie in the grand scale of it all? It's a bit too late to start his character development when we only have, what? 4 movies until it all goes down. 3 of which don't even feature him?

>>92222000
Those numbers... have been checked

>>92222926
>couple billion
Do you mean world wide? I hope so because a movie would never make a "couple billion" domestically no matter how much Disney spat in it.
And even then at most I'd say 2.5 billion. That's if it's good.

>>92213119
I feel like they can but with so much going on it might be mishandled. I'm especially worried about the Guardians. They might be completely mishandled and not in character at all.

Also I'm slightly bored of the Avengers. The GOTG movies are so good they pale in comparison. [/spoilers]

>>92213119
If Guardians 2 is any indication, no, it'll be two movies filled with too much character exposition.

I've accepted that there will not be a good marvel movie.

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I just want to see my muderous space Waifu in action

>>92225310
After GOTG 2, there really is a spark the Guardians have that the Avengers lack of late. I think it's because the marvel Earth is so grounded compared to the colorful zany stuff of the GOTG.

My big fear is that I don't think Thanos will go all the way with the Gauntlet. Like, how will characters like Black Widow, Hawkeye, etc have any chance against opening shockwaves from the gauntlet? I'm seeing shit like Thanos blowing up a fleet of spaceships and then all of a sudden struggling when the Avengers fight him.

Basically, I really can't envision the heroes being able to do anything against someone of Superman strength, which makes Thanos even more absurd.

>>92218904
And Civil War made less than Iron Man 3 despite all interesting Avengers in it, Iron Man and fucking Spider-Man.

>>92216050
>the MCU
>dying already

Uhhh, I think you are mistaking Marvel with DC/WB. Also it is enabling new actors to break onto the scene. For people like Sebastian Stan, Anthony Mackie, Jeremy Renner, Tom Holland it was their break breakthrough and they are getting pretty solid movie careers thanks to it. Sebastian Stan in particular, seems to be the smartest of the bunch as he appears to be building his career on various projects (mixing tv with movies) to expand his job prospects post-Marvel, which is what Chris Evans, Hemsworth and to a lesser extent Hiddleston and Pratt have been unable to do.

>>92223049
You don't read many comics, do you?

>>92226259
Well to be fair, it was called "Iron Man 3" and came out while people were still high off the Avengers.

>>92223049
>>get that it's going to be split into two parts but all the ""build-up"" the last 16-17 movies have done has given us virtually nothing when it comes to: what the gems do, why we should care about Thanos, the role of the Avengers and all the other superheroes. And if this war really is going to be so bad as they're making it to be, why should we care about a C-lister like Spider-Man's movie in the grand scale of it all? It's a bit too late to start his character development when we only have, what? 4 movies until it all goes down. 3 of which don't even feature him?

Thing is, my biggest problem with the MCU is that they constantly keep trying to hype up Infinity Wars. Age of Ultron was the biggest offender because there was really no need to explain the Infinity Stones in that film because it didn't matter to the current threat at hand. We don't need constant films to keep saying "Thanos is bad and wants all the gems". Movies are episodes of a TV show, and I think the trend of shows having seasons devoted to one storyline tend to point out that a long buildup narrative of one villain tends to be a letdown.

Basically, these films should be allowed to do their own thing because we actually are getting more attached to all these heroes because we've been through their adventures. We want to see them team up to see how they will react to each other's experiences. And to be honest, every MCU villain has been like Thanos. The serious stone faced character who boasts about their power has been done many, many times in the MCU. Yes, we haven't seen a villain of this power level, but he's not going to be something especially different than Ronan the Accuser.

>>92213119

It'll be like Civil War where people will be happy it's not shit. I'm sure it'll be good.

Does anyone here think this movie will surpass Avatar at the box office?

Nope. It's going to be fucking garbage. The Thanos fight is going to have quips out the ass, whoever dies will just be brought back by the infinity stone. There won't be any stakes, no lessons learned. Just like every single marvel villain fight

>>92226445
It definitely looks like it will. They have been hyping this for 11 years by the time the first movie will premiere and well, people have formed attachments to the characters and actors.

>>92226445
Nope. Unless it's a special effects masterpiece that China gives two billions towards, it won't happen.

>>92226309

>Jeremy Renner
>new actor


Go back to school kid

>>92214445
> the hobbit trilogy (most of which went towards Battle of the Five Armies).

Funny how it's the worst looking one

>>92215312
I'm guessing they picked such a gloomy day so it wouldn't look weird for them to have no shadows

I believe in Russos. They delivered some good shit with Winter Soldier. And slightly less good shit with Civil War. They will not disappoint me like Whedon did.

>>92213119
Of course.

>>92226499
His big break was in the Hurt Locker and he got an oscar nom for the Town. But he arguably became a household name thanks to the Avengers. No one cared about him when he was having roles with 3-4 lines like those he had in 28 Weeks Later/S.W.A.T

>>92226514
I think Civil War's delivery on the Iron Man/Cap and Bucky fight makes me really hopeful.

>>92213119
I am afraid this will become a convoluted mess. What the fuck are they going to do? Kill Cap, introduce Buckycap, resurrect Steve, have Steve take over as head of S.H.I.E.L.D and then have Buckycap passing the shield onto Falcon?

I'm not convinced the Russos are able to handle cosmic level powers. I'll reserve judgement until I see Avengers 3

>>92226315
Well not since 2013 but I wasn't originally speaking about the comics and neither was the topic of this thread.
I meant to answer the question if these movies would do well with casual audiences. People that've only watched the movies.

>>92226387
I think you hit the nail on the head when you compared the movies to the television shows. It feels like every after credits stinger should be accompanied with a "This season on the Marvel Cinematic Universe" as if the audience needs to be reassured what follows will be interesting.

>>92226701
>I think you hit the nail on the head when you compared the movies to the television shows. It feels like every after credits stinger should be accompanied with a "This season on the Marvel Cinematic Universe" as if the audience needs to be reassured what follows will be interesting.

Well, yeah, that's what post credits are. They advertise the next film. The truth about cinema is that when you have a series and a film is the flat out end, the hype disappears. For example, Lord of the Rings. When I was in high school, that was talked about so much with so much speculation about the upcoming stuff. When the third film came and went, the hype just vanished. There was nothing to talk about cause that was the end. Just like Logan. Logan was a damn good film, but nobody brings it up anymore cause there's nothing to discuss. There's no "This is what happens next' because it was an open and close story.

Which brings me to a controversial point, I think the MCU is so massively popular because each film is a promise for a future film. People put up with the MCU more because there's always a promise that something bigger is on its way. Like Dr. Strange was a kind of mediocre film, but it brings the promise of magic with the Avengers. People left Thor the Dark World only being hyped for the Infinity Stones. I think this also carried over with the TV shows because people think "I better watch these shows because they might cross over with the movies". Connectivity is sort of an advertisement that never stops.

Which brings me up to the final point, the films shouldn't tease future films during their film, but only at the end. Otherwise, you'd get Age of Ultron that promises Civil War, Ragnarok, Black Panther and Infinity Wars, derailing a lot of the story.

So speaking of Inifnity War, should I buy Infinity Gauntlet Aftermath? It collects some of the same stuff as the Infinity Watch TPBs do and I don't want to double dip, is there anything in it that's a must have?

>>92226554
They have two movies for it

>>92222831
Yeah, that would be you.

I am curious, how closely does the Avengers movies follow the Avengers comic story line?

As a fan of movie capeshit only, what are some things a non comic capeshit reader is missing out on?

>>92227694
It's not an adaptation in the way Game of Thrones is. It's just a new story featuring those characters.

>>92227514
Two movies with a limited running time. You cannot expect to introduce 40-50 characters and give them their due on the movie. Hell, just the Buckycap storyline could be extended to 2 or 3 movies.

>>92227694
>how closely does the Avengers movies follow the Avengers comic story line?
In the comics, when the Avengers first team up, it's to fight Loki who's invading New York. That's about it.

>>92227694
>I am curious, how closely does the Avengers movies follow the Avengers comic story line?

For one thing, SHIELD didn't form them, and Maria Hill wasn't a character until the 2000's and the Chitari were aliens from the Ultimate Universe, not main universe, Hank Pym created Ultron, Ant-Man and Wasp were on the original team, and Hulk wasn't part of the circus.

>>92227708
Marvel could have words with you about that....after all they are trying to bring as many elements of the movies into the comics, especially the costumes (Cap's new costume are virtually identical to those worn by MCU Steve, etc.) and the overall feel of the new runs. If the comic division of Marvel is holding on, it is thanks to the profits brought from the MCU.

>The Guardians and the Avengers in the same movie
Shit's about to get insane.

>>92226554
Why would that all happen at once? Just do one at a time, and don't resurrect Steve.

>>92227848
>don't resurrect Steve

When people that don't read comics think about Steve Rogers the first thing that comes to their mind is Chris Evans interpretation of the character. You cannot expect to have people, who have spent nearly a decade by then with Evans as Steve to not be put off by having Sebastian Stan suddenly taking over.

>>92227927
Why do you think people are so stupid?

7 years ago, nobody even knew who Captain America was. They can figure this one out too.

>>92227927
But if you're going to have a character die, actually stand by your word. Having the MCU be defined by characters never dying or leaving would make it consequence free and that doesn't make for an interesting story.

Nothing would sink the MCU faster than keeping all the same faces for a full decade. Changing the status quo after Infinity Wars would be a welcome change.

>>92228055
It works for comics.

>>92227813
Especially with Dr. Strange involved.

>>92228078
But movies aren't comics. These actors age and noticeably so.

>>92227990
And 10 years ago people on /co/ thought Iron Man would flop because no one fucking cared about Marvel unless it had something to do with either the X-Men or Spider Man. However 10 years ago fandom was a joke and the producers frankly gave two shits about what they thought it. However, Twitter and Tumblr have changed the perceptions of fandom and producers have realized that they represent a pressure group and that they could potentially loss support if things don't go the way the fans want to.

>>92213251
>>92215088
You doubt our mouse-eared media overlords?

>>92228119
>And 10 years ago people on /co/ thought Iron Man would flop
Right. And all that proves is that /co/, and the internet at large, doesn't know shit.

Marvel can get away with anything right now, and that could include putting Bucky in the helmet.

>>92213119
Doubt it. Avengers 1 was a pretty good ensemble movie, but these movies have gotten lazier and shittier and more obsessed with trends and stories from a few years ago. I don't have faith that Thanos, the key to the whole thing, will be more than a boring villain who isn't explored, then will die.

In hindsight, it might've been better to have a different endgame villain, then build up Thanos in a few cosmic movies until he finally gets the spotlight in the next event. They keep saying his name, but we know shit about him. Thanos' appeal in the comics is the insane amount of layers to him, all boiled down to him being a lovesick nerd with a LOT of ambition and skill.

>>92228078
Comics are not the same as the movies and the MCU has little to do with the comic division either way. By now you had to have realized that the MCU is an incredibly successful AU fanfic of the Marvel comics.

>>92228223
>fanfic
lol

>>92228269
But that's what the MCU is unless you think that having Bucky become a handrawn version of Sebastian Stan means that Marvel Comics follow the MCU down to a T.

>>92213251
>a $1 Billion budget combined

Sweet jumping Jesus. I know they can make their money back twice over, but that still seems insane,

>>92228306
For a budget like that they must've impressed some people in suits.

>>92228306
Screencap this, but it will probably surpass both Dealthy Hallows movies and Avatar.

>>92228078
>It works for comics.
But does it really?

Isn't it the most criticized thing about them?

>>92228305
What the fuck do you think fanfic means?

>>92228370
>Isn't it the most criticized thing about them?
Far from it.

>>92228367
>Both Deathly Hallows movies
Well yeah... both Avengers films have already done that.

>>92228440
They have been standalone movies and not two-parters where the second carries on the storyline of the first one. Which IW and Dealthly Hallows are.

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>>92215657
Don't forget the Thanoscopter.

>>92228486
Why does that matter at all?

Also, why throw Avatar in that list? If the beat Avatar, they beat literally everything.

By the time this comes out, I expect most people to be completely burned out on capeshit movies and the Marvel "formula."

Of course that won't stop everyone, but I doubt it will have anywhere near as much hype attached to it as past big-deal Marvel movies.

>>92228543
>Marvel formula meme
>superhero bubble meme
Wow, all you need to say is "quipfest" and you win /co/ bingo!

>>92228523
Because Gone With The Wind and Avatar surpassed the 3 billion dollar mark. Can an Avengers movie compete against it even though they have never surpassed the 1.5 billion mark of the first Avengers again?

>>92228614
Right. But my point was, putting DH and Avatar as the two examples is meaningless.

Additionally, past performance doesn't necessarily dictate future performance. This is a MUCH bigger movie than Age of Ultron. Just look at the Fast & the Furious franchise: #4 made $363 million; #7 made $1.5billion.

>>92228543
>I expect
No, you don't expect. You "hope" they get burned out.

>>92215312
Splash pages work best when they at low or high angle, not side on.

>>92213119
All I ask is that we get a scene with Thor and Drax as drinking buddies.

I really hope they can at least squeeze one TV character in.

Because I want to see Rocket land on Earth and smack Foggy in the face.

>>92218597
I hope Vision and Wanda get enough time for their relationship to affect audiences.

These are the two characters with the most at stake.

>>92226214
Wanda and Strange can shield them from said Shockwave's.

>>92213119
I fucking hope to god that Stan Lee appears in the final battle only to have his appearance melt away and change, revealing that he has in fact, been The Living Tribunal gathering evidence for judgment this whole time

>>92226531
>implying Hansel and Gretel wasn't his breakthrough

>>92228812
>I really hope they can at least squeeze one TV character in.
I get why they haven't yet, but I still think it'd be a shame if they didn't let Coulson come back for a movie.

>>92229287
>Coulson returns and gets a shot in with the Destroyer Canon 2.0, saving Cap's life.
>Quips "I have some cards I need you to sign."
>Cap and others are surprised
>Tony just shrugs and says "I told you; Fury's secrets have secrets."

>>92215312

This isn't even the problem with the film.

Why is Falcon giving War Machine, Iron Man and Vision a hard time?

Why is Black Widow there?

Why are they fighting head on? Why didn't Cap's team try to use superior tactics (hiding) and not get into fisticuffs with Superman and the Hulks superior.

>Only one that gets injured is War Machine showing us that the major characters were never and will never be in danger no matter how stupid their actions are

Cap is my favourite character and I don't even like Tony but having his team win this fight was just cringey and cheesy. At least if Wanda Solo'd it might have made sense.

>>92215939

Winter Soldier is shot well... Really well

Civil War is good for the most part too, the digital cameras and the colour grading are because of Disney/Marvel. Towards the end it looked abit rushed though.

>>92229428
>>92215939
There's nothing wrong with the cinematography of Civil War.

People are only complaining because some youtube video made a big deal out of it. If it wasn't for that people wouldn't be complaining.

>>92221746
3 & 4 will be sold In the same way that avengers was sold as the first superhero movie crossover. The big sale for 3 is guardians meet the avengers and the big sale for 4 is the end of a 10+ year storyline

It's the movie most normalfags are hyped for, it's going to do great.
The question is afterwards. I doubt people will care if they drop Evans and RDJ, characterfagging is the main normalfag-locomotive.

>>92221939
>no arcs for characters
Anon I might be able to give you the other 2 but you're gonna tell me that Iron Man 1 Tony is the same as Civil War Tony? Or that Cap dropping his shield wasn't an arc? Hell even Wanda and Widow have grown throughout their respective films. Thor and Hawkeye are the only one who maybe I can give you hasn't really changed post Avengers, but everyone else have gone through arcs

>>92226214
>After GOTG 2, there really is a spark the Guardians have that the Avengers lack of late.
The word you're looking for, my friend, is "fun".

The GOTG movies are fun, they allow themselves to embrace all the kitsch and over-the-top wackiness that can come with comic books. I mean, the current Avengers wouldn't be caught dead fighting an entire fucking planet, even though it would certainly be a lot of fucking fun to watch them do so.

Much as I loathe Whedon, he did a good job in making the first Avengers fun because the down-to-earth character drama was woven into a grand story about an alien armada invading New York, and in so doing created a story of heroes that people want to see more of.

The way the characters interact with each other is also important, because it can very much set the tone for the movie. The Guardians, for all their faults, do actually seem to like each other, even if they can be complete dicks at times. Rocket and Quill will still work together and enjoy each other's company at the end of the day, which is a far cry from the Civil War shit between Iron Man and Captain America.

>>92213119
They've pulled off everything else so far. They even got Spider-Man back without trying very hard. Why would you doubt them now?

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>>92213251
Money? Money? Anon it's not that much (500 mil each- most their big films are 400) but you really think Money is the issue here.
11+ major stars from 16 films in a decades time are all coming together for a milestone in film history that has never been seen. As long as it's well received by viewers they won't give two fucks if they never make the money back, they will be able to lord that power over any other film industry, it will flock more talent to their doors and establish new loyal customers for another generation or more.

This isn't about money, this is about becoming god.

>>92230645
Wasn't Avengers itself something the likes of which had never been seen before? How is this going to be any different?

>>92230666
This is avengers square, satan.

>>92230666
>5 movies
>4 franchises
>Culminates in Avengers


>19 movies
>from 9 different franchises
>supplemented by 17+ seasons of TV
>Culminates in Infinity War

The scales a little bit bigger. Avengers was the first stop on the road. Avengers 3 and 4 are the destination.

>>92230666
Next level Satan. It's a two parter with a large cast that only the Expendable film's can challenge, on top of that the first Avengers was only tying 4 films together.

>>92215301
Their choreography compensates for the airport scene IMO

>>92230771
>only tying 4 films together
And yet another person has forgotten about Iron Man 2.

>>92226214
As weird as it is to say because Guardians is known for being more fun and humerous than the average MCU movie, I think theyre much better because they have a lot more emotional weight to them.

>Peter's family drama
>Drax is purely motivated by his wife and daughter being slaughtered
>Rocket dealing with being a created outcast that is always pushing everyone away
>Gamoras survival at Nebulas expense, and both of them realising they cant blame each other for what their adopted father did
>Adult Groot sacrificing himself
>Yondu

A Guardians movie is a hell of a ride, both up and down

>>92229390

They were not fighting. Tony's team was trying to capture Cap's. It was never a fist fight to hurt anyone.

It was just after Ant-Man threw a gas truck at them that they decided it was getting too dangerous and were going to use more force. Even then, they were never supposed to hurt anyone.

>>92232588
You know what I think is bugging me?

I don't think we've seen the Avengers really operate without RDJ constantly stealing the scene. Yes, we see smaller interactions, but nothing that well defined outside how they react to Tony. Like, who is Thor's closest friend on the Avengers?

>>92229390

How does Iron Man easily beat Falcon without killing him?

>>92230839
Actually I forgot Hulk

>>92232841
It's rather ironic isn't it? The Avengers all have their own films that can flesh them out and yet have poor chemistry in team ups while GotG is five+ people with no pervious films making a more harmonious family and scenes.

>>92233071
Well that's sort of by design. The Guardians were created as a team, while the Avengers were each created individually.

Each member of the GotG cast has a niche to fill in the group, so they work together well. But since Cap, Thor, and Iron Man each had films where they were the protagonist, then you end up with three protagonists in a group together, and finding slots for them is a little tougher.

However, I'll still maintain that the Stark Tower hammer-lifting scene is fucking perfection. Shame that the movie went downhill after that.

>>92233310
>However, I'll still maintain that the Stark Tower hammer-lifting scene is fucking perfection.
Yeah, that really is a strong scene.

>>92233310
>But since Cap, Thor, and Iron Man each had films where they were the protagonist, then you end up with three protagonists in a group together, and finding slots for them is a little tougher.
I was thinking this the other day. Like, compare X-Men to Avengers. X-Men are made up of characters who have one trait in common and usually get forced into that role, where as all Avengers have to have that drive to become an Avenger, which makes the team feel similar across all the personalities.

>>92233071

I feel like Cap and his New Avengers had this but we only got to see them together for like a tenth of a movie.

>>92232841
Thats another good point.

Quill might obviously be "the star" of the group, but he hardly overshadows anyone the way Iron Man does. He may even be the weakest of the group when he isnt channeling an infinity stone or on a planet that makes him a god.

They also dont have any sidekick tier heros dragging things down like Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, etc, that feel like theyre just wasting screentime. Even Nebula was done very well when I was just expecting her to be a small side character (I dont read the comics)

The guardians are much more well balanced.

>>92234058
>Falcon, etc, that feel like theyre just wasting screentime.

uh

>>92213251
If that includes marketing, then that isn't completely insane these days.

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>>92213119
I thought Civil War was great.

I think they can do it.

inb4 blatant /tv/ shitposting

>>92234188
Well its true, make everyone feel like they matter just as much as anyone else, or just leave them out.

Again, this is from someone who only watches the films, so I dont get enjoyment purely from seeing a character from the comics appear on screen

I don't see Thanos being an Avengers villain compared to the GOTG. The GOTG have more connections to Thanos. I just can't see the Avengers connecting as well or deserving the final blow over Gamora or Drax.

>>92234758

so everyone except Captain America and Iron Man should be left out?

>>92214445
>Thats what, 500 million each?
> Requiring confirmation.

>>92226482
>implying this wont be a cgi and explosion festival
These movies will be Michael Bays wet dreams while on hallucinogens

>>92235088
Bucky, Black Panther, Vision, (Gi)Ant Man, Spider Man, Scarlet Witch all either had major plot relevence and / or were powerful enough to be relevant, and vastly overshadow Widow, Hawkeye, Falcon, and War Machine.

I dont dislike any of those characters, all Im saying is Guardians is a much tighter, balanced group. Theres no "fluff" or "lesser" characters that feel like theyre just there for padding or fan service.

The closest there really is would be baby Groot, but he'll be a powerhouse again once he grows up

>>92236905

I haven't seen the second one but Drax barely mattered in the first one.

>Spider-Man was more relevant than Falcon

Oh, you're one of those.

>>92233930
This. Sadly we barely saw them interact. They are kind of a family unit.

>>92236961
>I haven't seen the second one but Drax barely mattered in the first one.

He is near indestructible and has incredible strength (not sure if super?). He has a personal vendetta against Ronin because he slaughtered his family, and his arrogrance led to him calling Ronin to the Guardians resulting in him obtaining the power stone.

>>Spider-Man was more relevant than Falcon

When the goal is to capture, not kill, name a more useful ability in the MCU than Spidey's web.

Scarlet would be a good alternative as shown by her even being able to suppress Vision, but she was on Cap's side.

I want to see them do the bit where Nebula gets the gauntlet, maybe she attacks him early on and he turns her into a zombie like the book. GOTG2 kinda hinted at it.

>>92233071
You know what it is?

The Guardians feel like they're actually friends, whereas the Avengers feel like they're "work friends".

The Avengers will do stuff and work together, and MAYBE they'll hang out outside of saving the world, but they don't actually have any real connection to each other and every passing movie makes it clear that they are a team of convenience, nothing more.

The Guardians, on the other hand, seem to love doing stuff with each other, and they're much more relaxed when they're together. They can talk shit about each other, they can criticize dumbass things they do, but there's never any genuine hatred or dislike behind any of it. Even when Quill was pissed off at Rocket for being a douchebag, it was more in the vein of "Dude, you're my friend and all but you're seriously being a jerk right now".

>>92229512
Go look at the airport fight. Awesome yes but not only does the CG look like dogshit, it looks visually boring from cinematic standpoint.

>>92226513
The airport's 100% CGI.

>>92213251
How much did RDJ got?

>>92238063
>it looks visually boring from cinematic standpoint.
Explain?

>>92238063
The setting couldn't be more boring, but how in the world does the CGI look bad?

>>92237716

>character relevance is determined by powers

Ok, you're even worse than I judged you before

>>92238788

>>92236905
>all either had major plot relevence and / or were powerful enough to be relevant

Try following the conversation please if reading isnt too hard for you.

I still havent seen a single argument in support of Falcon? Also, you dodged the question without answering it, who would be more useful than Spiderman at capturing someone without injuring them?

>>92238172
The Avengers are fighting on a boring gray flat surface. Where's the color? Where's the set design?

Avengers 1 and Ultron at least had them navigate NYC and Sokovia for the fights which made for visually interesting battles while the airport had none.

Yes it's an airport but there have been many movies that made airports look interesting. Like that one Fast and Furious movie.

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>>92238303
Really?

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>>92239700
Then there are cases where CG characters like Iron Man and Ant Man needed another render.

>>92239700
Yeah really -- that looks fine.

>>92239668
Is that really a bad thing though? A simple background helps to keep attention on the large amount of action.

It wasnt supposed to feel like a big epic battle like New York, it was a personal showdown between friends trying to stop each other. The focus was on the characters, not the setting.

Not trying to bash, you explained it great, Im just asking cant that actually be beneficial in some scenarios like this one?

>>92239037

"inb4 obvious criticism" doesn't shield you from that criticism. Your argument is nothing but Spider-Man is more relevant than Falcon because he's more powerful. Spider-Man is the definition of a character who was only pushed for fanservice and padding.To claim he was more relevant than Falcon is just insanity.

>I still havent seen a single argument in support of Falcon?

The fact that Falcon met Captain America before automatically makes him more relevant than Spider-Man.

>Also, you dodged the question without answering it,

Because the question is pointless and hinges on your stupid premise that the powers matter more than the character.

>who would be more useful than Spiderman at capturing someone without injuring them?

Spider-Man successfully captured 0 people in the movie, so I'd say literally anyone else.

>>92239859
I see what you're saying. I guess it's a matter of preference then. Personally I thought it was bad set design only exemplified by the fact the airport was 100% CG.

>>92239750
Those two are right in the middle of action scenes. You're not supposed to be freeze framing them.

>>92239936
You seem to think that I think Spiderman was more story relevant than Falcon, and Im not saying that, Im saying he was more relevant overall, balancing both plot and usefullness.

Spiderman had very little plot relevance, but he a very niche power that at least should have been made him the MVP of that situation. The fact that he failed his one job is a bit shitty, I wont argue that, but he did at least help take down Ant Man.

A character with high plot relevance, but little usefullness would be Bucky. Hes godly with a gun, but they arent trying to kill anyone. The final fight showed that he gets BTFO by Iron Man as well.

Falcon has little of either. He... flies? Hed make a good distraction for one oppenant but thats about it. His story releance is that hes friends with Cap, and thats his only connection to the plot. I enjoy the character, but he just feels like fluff compared to others in the scene.

>>92240429

No, I'm completely rejecting your assertion that Spider-Man's powers factor into "overall relevance" in any way whatsoever. The only time that matters in when the powers are so extreme or specialized that the plot or some plot element revolves around them. Falcon was a side character, and Spider-Man was a literal who henchman who only shows up for one fight.

>>92213119
>decide to adapt large cosmic Marvel event.
>the only cosmic Marvel characters you introduced are the GotG.

>>92241597
In fairness the comic only had warlock, starfox and nebula playing any major roll. Rest the cast was earth heroes.

>>92238063
Perlmutter's penny pinching combined with having to CG Spiderman into it after the fact didn't help matters.

Who's fucking /hype/ for Buckycap? Because we all know it's going to happen in part 2.

>>92238059
The Avengers are a set of relationships rather than a whole.

Tony and Rhodey
Steve and Sam
Wanda and Vision
Natasha and Clint
Tony and Natasha
Clint and Wanda
Steve and Wanda
Tony and Peter
Natasha and T'challa

>>92213251
300 million production, 200 million marketing, each

>>92242858
>Steve and Wanda
>no Stucky

You fucked up m8

>>92242858

I feel like everyone on Cap's Avengers team with Witch, Widow, Falcon, Vision and War Machine was friends except Rhodey

>>92226259
t. dcuck

>>92244392
Nobody likes Rhodes. He comes off like a douche.

>>92226387
>Age of Ultron was the biggest offender because there was really no need to explain the Infinity Stones in that film because it didn't matter to the current threat at hand. We don't need constant films to keep saying "Thanos is bad and wants all the gems".

That's exactly my sentiment. The post-credits scene of Age of Ultron made more sense to be added at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy. The creation of Vision also didn't need an Infinity stone. You can remove the Infinity stone from the whole movie and the only thing it changes is that Thor gets to hang around Hawkeye's house along with the others.

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>>92239700
>>92239750
/tv/ pls, Civil War as a whole looked fine. In fact, some of those airport parts, which I do think is the weakest part of the movie and tonally doesn't fit with most of it, were fantastic.

webm extremely related.

>>92226387

>And to be honest, every MCU villain has been like Thanos. The serious stone faced character who boasts about their power has been done many, many times in the MCU.

That's why I liked the Cap films so much. Winter Soldier and Civil War were great in that regard because they weren't just about some superpowred villain that gets defeated via a mcguffin. Especially Civil War

Meanwhile in literally every other MCU film it's exactly as you described it. Recapping

>IM1
Obadiah
>IM2
Mickey Rourke
>IM3
Killian
>Thor
That big robot thing.... eh I guess this one doesn't really count
>Thor 2
Malekith
>Cap 1
Red Skull
>Hulk
Abomination
>Avengers
Loki but at least he isn't like the other villains in the sense that he's actually a character
>Ant-Man
That bald guy
>GotG
Ronan
>Avengers 2
Ultron
>Dr Strange
Dormammu

>>92241714

This

The entirety of Infinity Gauntlet was basically all Earth heroes getting BTFO and then cameos by cosmic entities which last half a second before they also get promptly BTFO

The only cosmic characters of relevance were adam warlock (which GotG 2 guaranteed we won't see in Infinity War), surfer (who, again, we won't see) and Nebula.

I expect Marvel to maybe throw in some celestials around there and have some other cosmic stuff like the nova corps to just inflate the balloon but nothing really in the scale of the comic

>>92241597
>Iron Man 2 is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind Demon In A Bottle
>Iron Man 3 is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind Extremis
>>Avengers is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind the first Avenger's story & the first Ultimates arc
>Winter Soldier is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind Brubaker's Cap run
>>Civil War is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind Civil War
>Thor Ragnorok is an adaptation of strictly the concept behind Planet Hulk

Its not the first time

>>92222831
Consistent linear velocity at the top of each wheel, despite different radii, means different rotational velocity.

>>92226214
>>92232588
Was actually thinking about this as I left the theater.

I had some issues with GoTG2, but hats off to Gunn for handling such a large cast so well. Almost everyone had some sort of emotional substance going on. Compare that to the mindless clusterfuck that was Age of Ultron: Could've just as easily had the same sort of Father / Son dynamic that Peter and Ego had flipped for Stark and Ultron, or Ultron and Vis. Instead they did a throw away line about it, and that was it.

Hell, even compare to something good like Civil War: half the characters in that film show up for the airport fight then leave. And I get that Cap was supposed to be the focus, but even he seriously lacked an arc for that film.

>>92243009
I was trying to stay within Avengers.

>>92247200
Stark has two of the longest scenes in the film (BARF and meeting Parker), whereas Cap has lots of scenes but they are all very short.

>>92215088
>if you'd asked before GotG2

See, if the question was asked before Guardians 2, I'd have said...no. The movies have been getting weaker, or at least leveling off (and not in a good way). Capt's been solid, Thor...opinions are mixed. Iron Man has gone down hill, and the Avengers were a giant amazing ball of fluff, and an overdrawn storm full of sound and fury that didn't really signify anything. Hell, Cap 3 was a better Avengers movie than Ultron was.

After Guardians 2, however, I actually do have more hope. It did somethings worse than 1, but it also did some things a lot better, and it showed they were willing to risk stuff. I mean, Yondu...yeah. That alone gave G2 a hell of a lot more impact than any of the other recent ones. There were consequences to this movie, lasting ones, beyond just "my feelings are hurt, Steve."

>>92232841
huh, I hadn't thought about this, but that's a good point.

Thor is probably my fav out of the Avengers and yet...who is his friend? Capt drags around Falcon, Tony has Rods, there's either partners from their own films, or there's nothing. Sure, they say Tony and Steve are "friends" but...while that was supposed to be the big impact of Civil War...I felt it perfectly normal for Cap to pick Bucky to help at all costs, because Fuck Tony, what do they even have besides being nominal co-workers.