Why was Sandman so good? What was it that makes it special?

>>92178284
Gaiman writes stories about stories, so they have a timeless quality. For all it's mythology, Sandman is mostly about family and realizing when change needs to be made.

A Game of You makes me feel things. I don't know why more people don't rate it.

>>92178339
Yeah, that makes sense. It's fantasy without getting to lost in fantasy.

It was very poetic and literary and used a lot of symbolism to couch its weird acid trippy fantastical scenarios and premises but it still read like an action comic book at the end of the day.

The pedophiles arc is one of my favorite comic reads ever.

>>92178415
I forget that arc, what happened in it?

>>92178546
oh no it was killers arc actually, just that the pedophilic killer stood out to me...lol...

you remember the convention of killers?

>>92178783
Oh, right, yeah. I remember the killers, but not the paedo.

Honestly, for me it was the Alice in Wonderland style arc (a game of you) that really got to me, but I don't know why. All of it was great though.

Are British authors traditionally more open to doing weird fantasy shit?

>>92178284
killer frost

>>92178842
The British Invasion was basically a lot of British creatives coming into the American market and writing trippy and/or off-colour shit.

>>92178934
Is it the same now? Or have they gone off the boil?

>>92178957
Well, it refers to a specific influx at a particular time. There are still British folks making comics and still plenty of bleedover into the American market, but IDK man. American comics' genre diversity is still really weird relative to the European and Japanese markets.

>>92179052
>American comics' genre diversity is still really weird relative to the European and Japanese markets.

In that there's more, or that there's less?

>>92178842
There's a wealth of national heritage there about fantasy and fairy tales, has been for centuries. Not to mention Gaiman and his generation grew up on Tolkien. C.S Lewis and Michael Moorcock. I wouldn't say they've a particular tendency towards it lacking in American writers, some of the greatest fantasy work ever has come out of the states, but there is a sort of vague mysticism that's part and parcel of their culture that comes with age and history that America can understand but not wholly reproduce simply due to the fact that it's a young country.

>>92178934
>>92179052

you still have guys like Morrison and Ellis doing what they do.

plus people like Gillen and Ewing, having been raised on those books coming in and doing modern attempts at those kinda weirdness but within the confines of Superheroics?

>>92178376
It was my least favourite the first time I read Sandman but I like it more with every reread. It's a weird arc.

>>92179070

a lot less.

>>92179123
>but there is a sort of vague mysticism that's part and parcel of their culture that comes with age and history that America can understand but not wholly reproduce simply due to the fact that it's a young country.

Bullshit. Young people aren't affected by that in britain any more than in the US. Writers are the same regardless. A kid growing up in the US reading the same books as a Brit will write the same.

>>92179070
WAY less, partly due to the current business model, partly due to Comics Code Authority mangling the industry for horror and adult comics so badly it took the mainstream forty years to recover, partly due to the approach to creator's rights and the lack of viable alternatives in the indie market to making money. Partly due to superhero comics taking off so well that Marvel and DC threw all their weight behind them when the popularity of Westerns and Romance and comedy comics began to wane. Comics are a much more widely accepted form of entertainment in Europe and Japan which results in far more diversification of content, in America they never really escaped the stigma of being "Juvenile".

>>92179223
I think that's why I like it so much. It takes a step back from the grand stuff that happens in the rest of the stories, and just tells a small scale story about one person.

That, and the themes about giving up on childhood are what I like. Stories about having to accept the death of childhood really hit me hard.

>>92178783
>killers arc

There was a weirdly personal moment for me when it got to the killer who targeted only transsexual women, being trans myself. Something about it just struck a terrible chord with me and really helped sell the unsettling feeling of the whole convention.

>>92180503
How do you deal with the fact that Gaiman seems to genuinely hate trannies and kills them off in everything he does?

>>92180631
Wanda gets the last laugh. Validation from Death is worth a lot more than from the witches.

>>92180707
Still dies though.

Anyway stop being a fag and going on about how you're a tranny, nobody cares and it's obnoxious. I woudn't start talking about how personally scared I was by the story if he was attacking overweight white nerds.

>>92180503
Yeah that whole arc did a good job capturing the depravity of serial killers. Lol, a convention of them is such a genius idea too, the juxtaposition of the humorous social awkwardness of a convention and the darkest human souls ever gathered in one place.

>>92180810
>Lol, a convention of them is such a genius idea too

Not really though. As an idea it's pretty conventional, it's the execution that makes it work.

>>92180871
Meh i thought it was still pretty genius considering serial killers are usually solitary and the last thing youd expect is a convention of them in a homely little town.

>>92180791
So is this about Gaiman supposedly hating trannies or you hating them, anon?

>>92180953
It's an idea that a lot of people have had. The degenerate group of crazies having a mundane get together. I can think of a few other things off the top of my head which use it. Well, that many actually. The Witches by Roald Dahl springs to mind.

Anyway, what works isn't the idea, it's how he does it. Though I'd actually argue it's one of the weaker arcs, but whatever.

>>92180967
That post just rubbed me the wrong way, implying that his/her opinion is somehow special because of some identity thing which had no reason to be brought up.

I remember someone once long a go storytimed a Sandman comic where Death visits this woman who creates masks so she can hide her grotesque physical appearance. Does anyone know what comic this might be, it was so long ago I don't remember the particulars.

>>92181038
But i wasnt just referring to the bare template.

I was specifically talking about serial killers getting together in one of those hokey conventions. So yes i was talking about the execution of the basic template of otherwise disparate crazies getting together in a mundane setting.

>>92181069
How is that honestly any different from other people talking about their experiences? What if someone talked about how a part of the story had affected them because, random example, their granddad died?

>>92178284
Niel Gaiman is a genuinely great writer with unique ideas, and it's art complemented him perfectly

>>92181181
Apart from that one arc with SHITTY art that looked like it was done by a five year old.

>>92181181
The good art complimented him perfectly.
The rest of it was god-awful.
If I had Trump money I'd pay off Gaiman and hire Duncan Fredrego to redraw the entire damn thing front to back.

>>92181154
Issue 20 of The Sandman

>>92181069
>Read book about birds because I like animals
>Defensive 20 year old on Cambodian sandcastle imageboard tells me my opinion doesn't count because my appreciation for animals is irrelevant and shouldn't be brought up

>>92181222
That was the fucking climax of the story too.
>>92181181
Mike Carey did a pretty good follow up in Lucifer, and his own story-about-stories The Unwritten

>>92181265
Ah, that's it man, thanks!

>>92181327
If you're trying to use that as a comparison, you'd be better to say

>Read book about birds because I want to become a bird

>>92181222
I hated the Kindly Ones art at first too but it sorta grew on me. I wouldn't call it good but it gives me nostalgia.

>>92181372
>That was the fucking climax of the story too.

I will never, ever, ever understand that decision.

Considering everyone that may have been available, why did they opt for that? Who thought it was ok?

>>92180791
>I woudn't start talking about how personally scared I was by the story if he was attacking overweight white nerds.

Of course you wouldn't, because that seems absurd from your point of view. However, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it from their perspective though. There's a legitimate fear of violence, injury, or death for trannies simply for the sake of their identities. Gaiman played on a primal fear inherent to that group of people, and that anon simply commented on how effective it was.

>>92180871
seriously, makes it look like the coolest thing in the world. At least to an angsty teen

>>92181423
>Considering everyone that may have been available
Have you seen the list of pencillers on that arc? It looks like they did call in everyone, and it turned into a disjointed mess.
>illustrated by Marc Hempel, Richard Case, D'Israeli, Teddy Kristiansen, Glyn Dillon, Charles Vess, Dean Ormston and Kevin Nowlan, coloured by Danny Vozzo

>>92181222
What surprises me is that the artist for that arc got even worse.
His art in Lucifer is much more worse.

>>92181566
He was only part of that problem. Thankfully he only got 7-8 issues of Lucifer, which were still pretty bad.

>>92181566
How do you even get a job as a comic book artist if you can't do the basic shit required to actually draw?

>>92180791
Shims.

>>92181675
Can someone post an example of the shitty art? I may have blocked it out, because I don't remember it at all.

File: kindly-ones-1.jpg (28KB, 267x240px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 267x240px

>>92182009
It's mostly just that it's so much more basic than everything else that's done in the series.

>>92181560
Imagine how much better it would have looked if they brought in Duncan Fregredo, Esteban Maroto, Alex Ross, and J.H. Williams.

>>92181675
Ask Liefeld.

File: AND I SAY.jpg (55KB, 264x353px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 264x353px

>>92178934
Same thing happened with Rock and Roll my man. American's invented it and then the British came and changed the game and showed them how its done for a while.

I'm not one who ascribes to national exceptionalism, but considering it's a collection of tiny windswept islands off the coast of France, pound for pound by population size, Britain is crazy prolific when it comes to talented actors, musicians, athletes, academics etc.

File: destructionlaughing.jpg (98KB, 472x529px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 472x529px

>>92178284

Because he's a consistently interesting character, the scope of his "powers" already make him interesting, but his personality and conflicts make these completely divine being seem relatable and understandable. And Gaiman does this thing where The Sandman barely appears in his own book sometimes, which is annoying but it keeps the reader wanting more all of the time. So you don't tire of bore of him.

Also there is contrast in his whole being that hooks you. For being in control of dreams, something naturally chaotic and unpredictiable, Dream himself is very straight-foward and follows set rules and guidelines. That's not what you'd think of someone in charge of making dreams, but it works because of the contrast and Destruction's explanation of the Endless defining their opposites makes since. Dream defines reality so he's strict like reality is.

>>92178339
>>92178783
>>92178842

The arc where Dream and Delirium take a road trip to find Destruction was my favorite. Because it does play on the family dynamic. Of how Family sticks together despite their problems with one another. And the same dynamics work even when the family is over-god-tier entities. They love each other, worry about each other, sometimes don't worry or care about each other...

File: Christian Bale.jpg (127KB, 800x1110px) Image search: [Google]

127KB, 800x1110px

>>92181069
So if someone had a sibling die, and then they read a book in which someone's sibling dies, would they be wrong for feeling more than your average person would about it?

I'm no advocate for trannies, but I can see why a story about them being targeted might have a different reading for a tranny than it would for me, especially given how they have been historically targeted for abuse and violence.

I know we're on 4chan, and you can say what you want with near impunity and it's all terribly exciting, but do have a think about what a person has said before letting it bother you so, yeah champ?

>>92178284
Probably because it came out in that post TDKR/Watchmen decade or so phase where everyone was desperately trying to get on board the dark moody and edgy train, but Gaiman actually got why they were appealing, and it meshed with his style so he was able to do his own thing without aping as others did.

It helps that Gaiman is also a very good writer.

>>92182115
That's not THAT bad though. Nowhere near as good as the earlier art, but it's more stylised.

File: corinthian.png (293KB, 438x453px) Image search: [Google]

293KB, 438x453px

I really really liked the remade corinthian, shame he was only around for a book and a half.

>>92185661
I think part of the reason why he was so good was because he didn't overstay his welcome so every moment with him was great. But he appears again in The Dreaming if you haven't read that.

>>92178339

Bingo

>>92179326
Thanks for mentioning this. Living in the US it's easy to never see any comics produced in other parts of the world. Don't know if the reverse is true, do other countries import US comics?

>>92186401
That's mainland Europe mind. In Britain its still very much seen as a juvenile thing

>>92178284

1. It had a good writer. Whether or not he actually planned the entire series from the beginning or he threw shit at the wall and tied them up later, it all tied up nicely by the end, as if it had been planned. Most arcs introduced something or someone that would matter later down the line; there was often payoff, etc. This very rare on ongoing series these days.

2. Art was consistently good save a few questionable artists choices. Good art plays a huge part in this series. Bonus points for it being also done without straying much from the "DC style" so it always felt like an in-universe book, without going into the 90's EXTREME route.

3.No editorial meddling and no one making him write movie/event tie ins or mandated char features/Cameos

>>92186836
>Whether or not he actually planned the entire series from the beginning or he threw shit at the wall and tied them up later
Karen helped him with a lot of the idea picking. So it helped that he had one of the best editors in the business giving him extra time.

>>92187063
that is very true. she is probably the best editor in DC's entire history. shame they let her go.

When will Geoff Johns write a crossover event based on Sandman?

>>92178284
It's not that special, it's just good. Parts like A Game of You suck shit.

>>92181417
>>92181423
>>92181560
am i the only one who liked the art in that arc?
its cartoony and abstract, it conveys the feeling and emotion of every scene more than perfectly well, its a lot more expresive than the art in the arc when they look for destruction and a lot cleaner and slick that the art in a game of you
and dont even get me started on the amorphous mess that is the art in the first arc, jesus.
sure it doesnt look "epic" or "poetic" or "classic" and in fact its clear pop style can feel cheap and rub people the wrong way, if you say it doesnt fit then i agree but if you say its "ugly" or "badly made" then you are blind

>>92188011
He already kind of did.

>>92188745
Like I said it grew on me. It might be the fact that I was a lot younger back then that caused me to hate it. I don't think I'd want the entire series to be drawn like that but it's not so bad.

>>92182715

>especially given how they have been historically targeted for abuse and violence.

Well it happens when you paint a target on your chest and then go around letting every single human being you encounter that you have a target on your chest and asking them if they have a problem with it and to go ahead and hit the target if it bothers them so much.

>>92178339
goddamn i love gaiman so much

>>92186836

>1. It had a good writer. Whether or not he actually planned the entire series from the beginning or he threw shit at the wall and tied them up later, it all tied up nicely by the end, as if it had been planned. Most arcs introduced something or someone that would matter later down the line; there was often payoff, etc. This very rare on ongoing series these days.

Yeah this is what I loved about Gaiman, that he managed to do this is incredible. I read Sandman high so I'd forget about certain characters or plotlines and then go back and reread the part I forgot. So it just hammered in the point to me how well he tied everything together kek.

Like the second to last arc where they are stuck in the World's End Inn? It seemed so damn random, but once it all tied together at the end and you figure out what was actually happening. I fucking cried. That ending literally made me cry. So emotionally I went from being annoyed with a story to being completely blown away and impressed with it. That's some damn good writing.

>>92188869
>and asking them if they have a problem with it and to go ahead and hit the target if it bothers them so much.

Most just want to live their lives normally and draw as little attention to it as they can. You've mistaken the most visible ones for the majority.

>>92188869
>Trannies always tell everyone they meet that they're trannies
>Trannies have historically done this

Have you ever actually met a trannie IRL, not just the ones that you see on social media? I currently know 3 and of those three two of them very rarely if ever mention it, to the point where an oft asked question about one of them is "are they trans?" because even though they obviously are, they never bring it up. The third person is more forthcoming with it, but not in an in your face way.

>>92188948
I need to read Sandman again, and while it wasn't as emotional for me, the ending of The Unwritten was like that for me too.
Sandman just really is on another level for emotional beats, and the realisation that Gaiman seeded the ending of the story in one of the earliest issues made me step back and want to read the entire thing again immediately.

>>92178376
Game of You is very preachy, and it's probably the weakest arc in the entire run, coming right after the strongest arc in the entire series.

It's also the least visually interesting, with only one of two panels I remember.

>>92189206
this, if anything the last thing a tranny wants you to know is that they are trans, theyd much sooner prefer you think they are what they present themselves as.

>>92188869
You seem like the sort of person who thinks Anita Sarkeesian is an accurate representation of feminism.

>>92181174
Because he has a remarkably small brain and he can't process anyone having a different life experience.

>>92189308
Isn't she? Most feminists defend her. Seems like they agree with her and by default unfortunately she is a symbol of Western feminism.

File: Tyrone kek.gif (3MB, 240x234px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 240x234px

>>92189713
Lord no.

I mean they might if they've just stumbled across some of her stuff, because not absolutely 100% of what she says is batshit insane, but if they've actually looked into her and what she's about, generally speaking no they don't defend her.

CONTENTIOUS OPINION TIME:

>Best Tier
World's End
>Incredible Tier
Season of Mists
Fables and Reflections
Brief Lives
>Great Tier
Game of You
Doll's House
Endless Nights
>Really Good Tier
The Wake
Overture
>Good Tier
Kindly Ones
Soft Places
Preludes and Nocturnes

SPECIAL MENTION:
-Hope in Hell is Great Tier, as is the interlude about Hobs and Sound of her Wings.

>>92189713
>Isn't she?
proof that /co/ has never met a woman

>>92189713
Absolutely perfect. You could not have played into that better.

>>92179351
>Stories about having to accept the death of childhood really hit me hard.
that's not what Sandman is about

>>92190225
He was just talking about the A Game of You arc

>>92178339
first post best post.

File: 1482447420801.jpg (306KB, 1941x1511px) Image search: [Google]

306KB, 1941x1511px

>>92188745
Hated it at first, but now I've learned to love it. This page is now one of my favorite Sandman pages.

File: 1466149405122.jpg (214KB, 981x1527px) Image search: [Google]

214KB, 981x1527px

>>92178284
Gaiman understands that, whether it's fantasy or scifi, it all comes down in the end to human interactions. Family stuffs man, shit never gets old.
For ex, this page still hits me hard.

>>92189713
God no, she is like the Black Panther of black people: Way too hardline and anti-men.
Not trying to get all political here, but just as Trump doesn't speak for all conservatives, Anita doesn't speak for all feminists.

>>92179298
Well, there's been greater popularity in fantasy, thanks to Tolkien and Rowling getting movies of their work, as well as Game of Thrones exploding in the way that it did, but you do have take at least SOME cultural relativism into account.

Who besides Gaiman and Morrison write stories about stories?

Pratchett, in his own way, but I mean comics.

>>92192977
Not him but you guys are confusing modern feminists to classical feminists. Anita is highly defended and assisted by the progressive/modern feminist subgroups. Obviously to any person under the label of the original definition of feminist, she is seen as retarded most of the time. However in the sphere of "progressiveness", Anita and others like her are defended by their ilk. Just like politics, feminism has subgroups from the parent umbrella which differ in policies, ideologies, and arguments. TERF individuals are a good example of one side of an extreme branch of the feminist movement which often clashes with the "progressive" wing..

>>92181675
If you meet deadlines, comic book companies will forgive a lot.

>>92192955
What's the context? I haven't read it since high school.

>>92193019
Pratchett's works have been made into comics and cartoons.

What does /co/ think of the American Gods series that just started? Anyone read the book/comic?

>>92178284
Remember how Morpheus is still dead?

>>92179070
Basically every other comic market is a free one where companies actually have to deliver products customers want to buy.

File: RCO014_1468872804.jpg (1MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1988x3056px

>>92194062
Dream is alive and well though.

>>92194035
>What does /co/ think of the American Gods series that just started?

It's somewhere between decent and total shit. The first episode was good, but the second episode has started to ruin shit from the book, like the hamfisted anansi intro.

>>92194035
>What does /co/ think of the American Gods series that just started
The first episode was pretty dope. Reminds me of Fuller's Hannibal a lot. High prduction values. I haven't read the book though, so can't really compare.

>>92194244
Haven't watched it yet, but I know they are going to meet the Slavic gods. I read the book a few years ago. Anansi was supposed to be in the abandoned freak show house, folklore house, place of worship thing, right? That's chapter 3, if I recall correctly.

>>92181181
This.

Reminder that Alan Moore was idea-spitballing shit so weird he had to leave the pub they were discussing it and stare into the gutter for a while.

>>92188869
>>92189178
Interestingly, I've noticed that some of the female-to-male ones (I know one of them, so it comes from them) tend to get absolutely fucking shit on by the male-to-female ones, it's ridiculous.

>>92194035
>Anyone read the book/comic?
>wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg
Come on, anon. Fucking really?

>>92178376
That's the trannyshit one isn't it? I suppose Fag Gayman deserves some credit for holding back the SJW agitprop for a few books, try to establish some credibility, except it's wall to wall crawling in my skin, every page, every time.
I suppose this is me saying it "wasn't very good". Let the death threats from the pencilneck "comics connoiseurs" commence. I'll be reading real comics while you jack it to Alan Moore's pedobook.

>>92194779

9/10 bait! :D

Congrats, man <3

>>92188011
God dammit don't give them ideas.

Gaiman has a rich imagination...and an ability to tackle large themes

>Shadow had done three years in prison. He was big enough, and looked don’t-fuck-with-me enough that his biggest problem was killing time. So he kept himself in shape, and taught himself coin tricks, and thought a lot about how much he loved his wife.

>>92194829
Goddammit I was shooting for 5/7! Thanks for tha review man, I gotta step up!

>>92189882
good list

>>92194829
Oh, and I do think Sandman gets a bit crawling in my skin at times, but even then it often hits it out of the park. And then there's Season of Mists that's just insanely good.

find me a better short story than A Dream of a Thousand Cats

protip: you can't

File: 595.jpg (51KB, 595x334px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 595x334px

look who i found while googling sandman, kek

>>92194935
What's your point?

File: 2649049-tumblr_m9oyzvkIhP1rb6rbyo1_500.jpg (59KB, 500x401px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 500x401px

>>92194926
Men of Good Fortune - my personal favourite.
The Sound of Her Wings
The Hunt
I generally liked the short stories more than big long ones, with the exception of Season of Mists.

>>92178376
How did Gaiman write a better trans character back in the 90s than any comic writer has done now?

>>92189882
Switch over World's End and Fables and Reflections and you've got yourself a deal.

>>92196157
because he wasnt pandering

>>92189882
Kindly Ones should be waaaaay higher and I'd personally swap World's End with Season of Mists or Brief Lives but that's just me.

>>92196199
WHAT?
his entire writing style is pandering to emo/goth fags
and wannabe dark and deep people

>>92196157

When Gaiman makes a gay/trans/ etc character it feels like its cause he wantes to include one and not because he wants to pander

>>92196259
You're thinking of The Crow, Sandman makes fun of Dream for being mopey.

>>92196262
Also didn't A Game of You make it clear Wanda was still a man as far as the universe (or the Moon at least) was concerned no matter what he himself wanted to be?

>>92196259
he wasnt pandering to trannies

>>92196307
Just the Moon. Kinda happens when you base your whole thing around periods.

>>92196307
also wanda was a realistic tranny, not a cuter than a cute girl tranny

and her own family hated wanda

>>92194035
I'm liking it a lot. It's been ages since I read the book so I don't remember it too well, but I'm collecting the comic now and watching the series...goes to have it on 3 mediums and that's a bit much...but it's a good story.

>>92196259
He's just into Goth sub-culture. You write what you know.

Or maybe it was secretly his plan to become a god in a subculture and happened to pick goth cause we obsess over stuff.

How did gaiman get so big only writing?

morrison had to start as an artist drawing weekly comic until he eventually ascended to exclusive writerdom

>>92196974
He began by bulshitting his way through just a little bit.
Not even kidding, look it up.
Came up with some false recommendstions and whatnot.

It's kinda offensive people keep comparing early Morrison to Gaiman.

Morrison didn't get actually good until somewhere after/during The Invisibles and his marvel years. Gaiman was good almost right from the start.

>>9219406
>>92194224
The new Lucifer series I shit you not has Lucifer and Gabriel wandering the Dreaming in the first arc wondering if Morpheus was screwing with them.
The author didn't bother to read a summary of Sandman when she wanted to use the Dreaming

File: sanctuary tokai.jpg (237KB, 800x1356px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 800x1356px

>>92198526
>wondering if Morpheus was screwing with them.
>Morpheus whos funeral Lucifer attended
>and whos successor he has met
Christ that's just embarassing.
Good thing I quickly dropped it after the first issue.

>>92198526
It's annoying how much it misses the point of Lucifer's character. He's not some misunderstood good boy who dindu nuffin, he's supposed to be an arrogant self-serving cock.

File: Kek, Kekk & Kekky.jpg (57KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 640x480px

>>92197393

File: morph.jpg (548KB, 1800x2767px) Image search: [Google]

548KB, 1800x2767px

>>92198784
>>92198938

>>92200259
I went to a lecture of his, and he mentioned that when he gave comic companies his resume, he beefed his resume up by lying and saying he worked for all these prestigious journalist companies. He notes that in this day and age, you can't do that anymore thanks to Google.

File: 14564841816864.png (855KB, 1139x1081px) Image search: [Google]

855KB, 1139x1081px

>>92200419
I couldn't even make it past the first sentence.

>>92178284
Something about this larger then life God being some angsty bohemian really works for me.

>>92196157
Because he didn't try to glamorize him/her. Yeah, Foxglove sees her as a woman in the dream (which may be Dream or Death's doing), but she was hideous, her life was a mess, and it was made clear that she wasn't really a woman as far as the universe was concerned.

That's the thing about Gaiman, whatever his politics may be, he writes gays and trans or whatever characters, but they're people first. They have virtues and flaws, and if you know Gaiman's work, he writes about the flaws a lot more than the virtues.

Nowadays writers come up with these LGBT characters who are visually indistinguishable from normal people, they are proud and beautiful and flawless. It's the classic SJW philosophy: "YOU'RE PERFECT AND PRECIOUS NEVER CHANGE NEVER IMPROVE unless you're a cis-male, or worse, a white cis-male. If you are, you suck and we need less of you in the world."

>>92189882
Good list. Brief Lives was (this sounds super pretentious) a life changing book for me so i would swap it with World's End but everything else on the list is perfect.

File: Hellblazer 080 (1994) (digital-Empire) 024.jpg (541KB, 1074x1650px) Image search: [Google]

541KB, 1074x1650px

>>92200457
That page is doubly wrong too. Gabriel in Lucifer was intended to be the same one as in Hellblazer (in Carey's own words, which is why he is only in flashbacks), and he had his heart crushed by The First of the Fallen in Hellblazer.
The new writer of the book ignored that, and instead started it with Gabriel living in a flophouse.

File: 1375158670535.png (92KB, 374x318px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 374x318px

>>92200448
Completely bloody amazing.

>>92200536
it was great that Barbie altered her tombstone to say "Wanda" though which shows Gaiman sympathized with the character.

>>92200810
Yeah, of course. That's the point. Yeah, Gaiman pro LGBT+anything, and it'll show in his work, but it won't be just glamor. The characters will go through shit, just like everyone else.

Instead, the biggest problem the LGBT characters will have nowadays is "MY DOCTOR MISGENDERED ME WHILE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT I HAVE NO UTERUS", or fighting cartoonishly evil homophobes or whatever.

>trannyfags attempt to hijaack another sandman thread over a background char that was on 4 issues

>>92201525
im not a trannyfag or lgbtqfag but how the fuck is any of this hijack in any sense?

you're just ultra sensitive to any talk about lgbtq and willing to voice it at any turn like any insecure, immature self-loathing moron would be.

>>92201525
Why are you reading Sandman if you hate trannies? A quarter of the recurring characters are trans or genderfluid.

>>92201525
>Yeah man I love Hob! Wasn't Dream of a Thousand Cats great? But my favourite has to be the grand total of like 10 pages the new Corinthian was in
>Why the fuck are you acknowledging let alone talking about Wanda? It's a background character stop pushing your agenda