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Has one character derailed the trajectory of a show so much?

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Thread images: 22

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Has one character derailed the trajectory of a show so much?
>>
Derail is a strong word, especially since Jack would have inevitably fixed his shit up anyway.
>>
Jack is gonna die.
Ashi will take the reigns.
The show will now be Samurai Ashi.
>>
meh
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>>92168400

But it is now the Jack and Ashi show.
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>>92168363
Its an accumulation of many things, Ashi is just the most obvious
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>>92168713

What other things? I'm curious.
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>>92168363
she plays a key role in the story though. whats up with all the retards who cant see past "ships"?
jack will have to chose at the end to either stay with ashi or go save his past.
>>
people dont notice tis the end of samurai jack. it has to be a happy ending.

jack, ashi, aku's death, going back to the past and actualy having closure are pretty much coming not mattering what tumblr, SJW and self inserts want of it
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>>92168595
I fail to see the problem.
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>>92168870

There's no way he goes back to the past. That would literally undo the whole series.
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>>92168913

>Name of show is Samurai Jack

>A Mary Sue is now getting more attention than him.
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>>92168766
The underwhelming payoff with Honda, the recharacterization of Aku, the brevity of the scotsman's appearance despite implied importance, the insular format of most of the episodes despite the final season being about resolving the overarching plot, the continued absence of the guardian, and some minor consistency/quality issues throughout the season (why was demongo even alive? Jack's magic reappearing and vanishing boots, etc)
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>>92168984
The entire premise of the series is undoing the whole series.
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>>92168870
Why isthis suddenly a tumblr issue? /co/ has been having problems with this season since episode four
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>>92169073

Then why introduce Ashi in the first place?
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>>92169115
Jack will stand in front of the time portal, then realize that if he goes back Ashi will no longer exist, then he'll decide not to go, they'll kiss and Ashi will push him into the portal.

Then in the new timeline Jack will somehow meet counterpart Ashi Jojo Part 6 style.
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>>92169037

Replace Honda with Jack's depression and mental struggles and and I full heartily agree. I think the Guardian is coming back in episode 9 though.
>>
Starlight Glimmer.
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>>92168363
>implying

Best love story of the century.
>>
That just happens when a creator makes a finale for a show he didn't care enough about, at this point I'm willing to believe Genndy did it for Ashi, not for the fans.
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>>92169240
>Forgetting his purpose and letting the people of Past Earth suffer for centuries so he can pound some monkey pussy
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>>92169363
How?
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>>92169243
I think the mental issues wre resolved reasonably well. They persisted for like 5 episodes, didn't simply vanish after his triumph over the daughters, and was directly confronted during his spirit journey thing. I think it could've beena little better, but I wouldn't call it a problem. It was basically Mad Jack 2.0. Would've been nice if they acknowledged/conneted the similarities too.

But Honda, Honda was foreshadowed for half the season and was confronted and beaten in under ten minutes with absolutely no explanation to what it even was. We can only guess it was the spirits of Jack's ancestors, but why were they working against him? How were they even able to manifest? Wouldn't his own blood wanting him to seppuku have an even more complex effect on the nature of his quest? Why not explore this instead of going on more episodic adventures/build up the Ashi romance? It's just a complete waste of potential
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>>92168400

> Since Jack would have inevitably fixed his shit up anyway

No he probably still would have killed himself when the burden of his most recent fuck up made the spectre samurai appear again.
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>>92169519
You didnt feel any emotion with that kidd my dude. The timing was love movie tier and that tension for this and the past like 4 episodes was on point as shit.

Shes smart, pretty, and distressed like jack.

Its the perfect fit.
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>>92169515
Fucking early post
Was going to add that there's no way Jack would fail to return to the past. Right?
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>>92169243
Even if the guardian comes back last minute, the story ignored his existence for the vast bulk of the season. Jack didn't even think about him for 50 fucking years. It's just weird.
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>>92168850
This. At least she is not those women from Regular show, Adventure, or mediocre harem/comedy animes.
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>>92169018
>the mary sue is sucking his cock
>fujoshits, permavirgins are now flipping about actual social development on their show

>>92169092
tumblr also has been flippin over the cis-relationship and now the end of "master/apprentice" relationship
>>
>>92168363
I still think she was a pointless addition. All Ashi did to get Jack back on track with fixing himself was say "No, you actually did change things in the future!"

We could've just had a shorter timeskip of 20 - 30 years with older characters that Jack has already met showing up to give him that same kind of support.

If you need a romantic interest, just have a flashback to that young girl that Jack met as a kid and have them meet in the epilogue of Episode 10 with the implication they'll have a relationship.
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>>92169678
Honestly Ashi kinda feels like that
>our hands touch hahaha
>so awkward x3
>haha she doesn't know she's naked lol so cute
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>>92168363
>not uniting the masculine and feminine aspects of god to slay the dragon and birth order from chaos
>not realizing that not having children and creating the world to come is an idea of fools
>not rescuing your father from the underworld
>not realizing that the nuclear family unit is the only chance we have against postmodernist collectivism

Sort yourself out OP
>>
>>92169526
My problem with Honda is that he feels redundant in light of Jack's inner demon, and that the manifestation of that demon feels forced and inconsistent. At first, it's just telling him to kill himself and urging him to die before it does a complete 180 and tries to compel him to murder an old man to finish the quest at any cost.
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>>92169865
The inner demon just reflects Jack's negativity, so it makes sense it would shift objectives as Jack's goals shift. Whule his ancestors were literally trying the make him kill himself the demon represented that guilt, and afterwards when he has some hope but faces a roadblock it represented his frustration. From that angle Honda wouldn't be redundant, him and blue jack would just be two different issues compounding on eah other. The problem is just that Honda gets abolutely no elaboration so he seems shallow next to an issue that's only supposed to compliment him
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>>92168363
i can guarantee if samurai jack continued it's original run and he met a girl then yall wouldnt give a shit

you're nostalgia goggles and rose tinted glasses are becoming one /co/
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>>92170113
>you're nostalgia goggles and rose tinted glasses
Those two things have always been the same
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>>92168363
>the old trajectory is Jack wants to die because he's already failed
Boy I sure hate that Ashi has given him new hope in life.
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>>92168363
because she's literally a meme character, taylor made for reddit
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>>92170113
Considering back in the day Genndy could actually write a story to save his fucking life I would agree, shame that that Genndy is dead now.
>>
Jack returns to the past with Ashi to deliver the final blow to Aku.

Turns out the entire series was just Aku sending Jack back to the past to fetch Ashi. The moment he focuses on Aku, Ashi stabs him in the back as he lands on the floor at Aku's feet. Aku laughs as from this point forward, there is no one who can stop his reign of evil. He rules throughout time, untouchable.
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>>92169018

You have no idea what a mary sue is. Ashi is wrong and doesn't even grasp simple concepts at time. Hell, she didn't figure out the indecipherable device that Jack was trying to get working in the last episode.
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>>92170242

>back in the day Genndy could write a story
>original SJ became non-cohesive after the pilot
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>>92169018

>mary sue
>soon to be literal dick-holster for jack

society has really gotten to you /co/, can't even have a female character on screen without someone REEEEEEing
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>>92170389
The episodic stories in SJ were better written than Season 5. Most of the time.
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>>92170389
Symbionic titan managed it
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>>92169578
Your grammar is so awful that I can't figure our what they hell you're saying.

Could you retype that up and submit a response again? Type clearing and reread what you have written please.
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>>92170440
I sure loved 4 seasons of filler and status quo!
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>>92170516
ST is hardly back in the day anon
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>>92170560
But the original had some sort of plot that was moving foward, Jack meets character and he might or may not see them again, nonetheless Jack learns and remembers yet moves on. That's not status quo.
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>>92170560
You have no Idea what the word filler means, fuck back off to /a/.
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>>92168363
yes
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>>92168363
Y'all realize that Jack is Jack's father and Ashi is Jack's mother.
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>>92170113
Anon, this has nothing to do with time or even taking issue in a relationship being made. The plot is juggling two plots about broken characters getting over deep issues, Aku still being out there and causing problems, finding a time portal, a suicide ghost, hallucinations, etc.

And then suddenly smash-cut to them making out after a whole episode of fluff.

The problem isn't that the romance exists. It's the pacing. For me, it's also the fact that it feels like 50 years passed just so that Ashi was necessary to get Jack out of his funk. If it was a smaller time-skip, older characters could have been there for Jack rather than shoehorning in a romantic interest.
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>>92169773
These are good ideas anon
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>>92170576
Which makes genndy's decline all the more tragic
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>>92170689
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>>92170208
Do you remember the episode The Aku Infection? In that episode, Jack has his body taken over by Aku from the inside out and his soul is being destroyed.

In his weakest moment, symbolized by his mental image of himself being a child, his parents come to him and remind him of all of the good that happened in the future, all of the people he managed to inspire, etc. From there, he grows into his adult self again and takes up a sword and purges the influence of Aku rooted within his soul.

That scene didn't need Ashi and it was just fine.
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>>92170994
That was before he lost his sword and all the portals were destroyed, and before he had been hunted relentlessly for 50 fucking years.

The man needed 100cc's of gf yesterday.
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Doesn't anyone else find it odd that Jack and Ashi are both East-Asian? Like 50+ years pass and the only other Japanese looking people we ever see in the show are Jack and the 7 daughters of Aku. Like it just seems like a massive co-incidence.

What if

dare I say it

father/daughter fags are more right than they thought?
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>>92171347
Or what if Genndy's message is that people should stick to their own kind?
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>>92168595
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>>92171347
There was also the Japanese family in the episode where Jack needed new shoes. And the family that lived in the haunted house
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>>92171347
Jack's Sandals

Literally a family living in a traditional japanese home.
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>>92171674
>>92171682
>50+ years
Learn to read. Talking about current season.
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>>92168363
It didn't have to be this way. Ashi could have just been a healthy relationship that helped Jack back from the brink.

It's silly to me that people try to rationalize Ashi not caring about her sisters because "Death is failure" and she was conditioned to not feel empathy for them, but then turn around and praise Jashi becoming a thing even though she was raised from birth to hate him. Which is it? Is her conditioning overwriting her human traits or not?

Really, I would've preferred Ashi to learn from Jack, help him recover, and then go and stop her mother from making more Daughters of Aku, raising the next batch to have better lifestyles than her sisters did while Jack goes back to the past.
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>>92168363
I just dont get why this was considered necessary. So many years after Jack was unceremoniously put on hiatus for years and the this was considered a priority that needed to be set up. So much time devoted to a rather plain and perfunctory love interest. Who the hell was ever watching Samurai Jack during its run time and thought "You know what this show is missing, you know what Jack lacks as a character? Romance shit".
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>>92171756
We haven't seen an episode explore the people of this time, this season. So your argument holds no water.

Also I've seen you post this shit on multiple threads. It's almost as if you're not even trying with that bait.
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>>92171816
The logic behind it is "Jack has been in suffering limbo for years while he was cancelled so lets reward him in the show with some pussy to make things right"
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>>92171816
This.
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Go back to tumblr, you salty virgin. Fuck Ashi for ruining the season.
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>>92170560
It's a fucking cartoon, jackass. It actually had meaningful episodes where Jack wasn't fighting off his weak ass adversaries with no struggle and fucking sluts. The show fell off after ep 3 anyway.
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>>92171770
>if only the show went in a direction that would have made ME right
>This show is bad because it did not do what I wanted it to
>and instead became exactly what people have been telling me would happen for 4 weeks >but I did not want to believe them because I am an autistic retard please kill me
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>>92172260
>this show didn't pander to me so this show is bad

So you didn't read what I wrote and can't have a civilized discussion without making a strawman and hurling insults is what you're saying.
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Why are Ashifags always on the defensive? Is it because you can't defend how shallow and underdeveloped Ashi's character and her relationship with Jack is?

I have not seen one argument for why Jashi is good, only baseless accusations of misogyny. /co/ really is retarded.
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>>92172353
>defensive
offensive*
>>
Why can't he just bring Ashi back through the portal
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>>92172400
Would the Guardian allow that?
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>>92172260
In a month or so, you'll be in the minority. The common opinion will be S5 was a disappointment. Enjoy being able to dismiss legit criticism while you can.
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>>92172260
The relationship angle has been developing for weeks you just didn't like the idea of it the entire time, that is what you're complaining about. You have been searching for rational to complain on and have ignored the explanations to the contrary, citing people who disagree with you and insult you for it as "not reading" or "being juvenile", you are being obstinate and stubborn to prevent yourself from enjoying the show just to be autistic. If my insults are getting old, so is your debasement of all other opinions. You faggots are doing exactly what you're complaining about other people doing because you can't take being wrong and will continue to be wrong. Stay mad faggot don't watch next week
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>>92172671
1. This is the first time I've said something on the matter.

2. At no point did I say that I disliked the show. You're lumping any criticism by other Anons all together and projecting that at what I said.

The only thing I said is that I would've preferred if the relationship remained platonic. Did it become romantic? Yes. Am I happy about it? I could leave it. Am I insulting the show and saying 'not muh Samurai Jack'? Not at all.

There's no need to become defensive about someone stating what direction they wanted the show to take. Genndy's vision, at the end of the day, is the one that moves the show forward and I can accept that and still appreciate the show's merits, even if I don't always agree with every part of it.
>>
>>92172444
This is the truth. Once the show is over and the hype is gone, everyone is gonna reflect on what happened and didn't happen.

Another fact is that the guys defending this shit just don't want to admit their favorite cartoon became such a disappointment because of samurai sex and cheap nostalgia.

No Aku, no Scotsman, and no fucking amazing Jack fights fucked this season badly when it was so easy to implement said scenes.
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>>92172906
>Cheap nostalgia
>But i want more Scotsman
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>>92172960
>Cheap nostalgia
>But i want more Scotsman
>The guy who is the only character that wants to move the plot along

The plot is about killing Aku and getting back to the past, not an entire episode of awkward romance. I understand having some romance because Gendy wanted to express his childhood fantasies but with only 10 eps, why would you waste them on that? Especially when the series started out so dark appealing.
>>
>>92169543
Yeah, that sounds exactly like how this cartoon show would have otherwise ended.

Come on, man, without Ashi they would have resolved that another way. It's all contrived.
>>
>>92168363

not since poochie! lol

"when are they going to get to the fireworks factory?!"
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>>92168363
In the past decade, every time there has been some sort of "couple confirmation" in a western series, the gay/lesbian community have flipped their shit over it.
I'm asking this seriously, what the fuck is wrong with homo-shippers?
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>>92168595
What's the problem I don't see it.
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>>92173498
Being straight is being anti-gay in today's politically correct world, and that's offensive.
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>>92170318

So how do you explain the events of episode 7? You know what I'm talking about.
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>>92170113
It would have been handled better, and involved an actually decent female love interest. Stop with this defense of a shit character just because she's female and you love masturbating to her.
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>>92175514
not defending the character, just pointing out /co/ inconsistencies in opinions over F I C T I O N A L C A R T O O N S
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>>92169285
This
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>>92168363
I keep seeing side profiles of her head. Her nose/mouth is further forward.
Shouldnt that angle look like this?
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>>92170677

Damn, I forgot about the shit storm he caused. Good one.
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>>92175914
Congrats, you made her look like a fucking baboon.
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I just don't know how after 13 years of time to prep and construct a coherent story, you fuck up this badly on all levels.

And that the fanbase is infinitely retarded and unable to realize this because of BTFOing shitty websites and a forced fanservice. Now Samurai Jack looks like a terrible Berserk spoof. There's no goddamn hope.
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>>92169018
A character introduced by the original creator cannot be a mary sue, period. especially if the central character is even more OP
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>>92168363
Jack was stuck in an endless, hopeless stalemate that could have gone on for centuries more.
She is the catalyst that broke him out of his funk.
If anything she re-railed him.
>>
>>92172353
I haven't seen one argument why Jashi is bad, only baseless autism.
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>>92176755
No I didnt the animators did.
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So next episode is going to open with jack and ashi waking up next to eachother on a makeshift bed, naked, right?
>>
>>92170560
Season 4 was great senpai, now Season 2 on the other hand was an extended Season 1 that became boring and tiring. Season 3 and 4 added more diversity, fuck off.
>>
>>92170113
Fuck off, it wouldn't have been the first series to hamfist a love interest into the last few episodes to piss me off, and probably not the last, either.

Unless it's built up properly or done abruptly for COMEDIC effect, it's bad. There is no way around it. You are fucking comic book nerds, you don't write for a living nor do you understand good writing, so stop arguing about it like you do and go back to watching your cartoons for children disguised as cartoons for adults.
>>
>>92177086
>a terrible Berserk spoof
griffith raping ashi when?
>>
>>92177086
>13 years
You do realize he's been working on a lot of shit and not just sitting on his ass writing SJ for 13 years, right?
He's been busy making Clone Wars, Hotel Transylvania, and Sym-Bionic Titan and shit.
>>
>>92179207
Man I'm not saying he hasn't been busy but the latest shit he's done was the series Hotel Transylvania which ended in 2015 and now brought back in 2018. Now that leaves about 6 years at least for Genndy to not fuck up especially when he has childhood fantasies that he clearly cherishes more than food and water.

Either way he's had more than enough time to flesh out the story in 13 years with the other shit barely taking up closet space and where he DELIBERATELY requested only 10 damn eps.
>>
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>>92178888
I can't wait to see the look on Jack's face when he sees Ashi lay that e x t r a t h i c c ass on Aku during the sacrifice. Genndy would redeem himself forevermore.
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>>92172011
I would have rather had a final epic chapter of his battle with Aku and journey home than sitcom relationship shit.
>>
>>92180695
this

it feels like genndy got old and married so the story is reflecting his bullshit
>>
>>92171770
But that would've been genuinely interesting and mature instead of cliche and full of lazy sex jokes.
>>
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Shock value plants stronger memories in the mind than something expected or wanted.

Whether you loved or hated what's happened this season so far, here you are talking about it. That's exactly the kind of reactions some creators and writers strive for.

I mean for fucks sake, both /co/ and Tumblr bring up the ending to Korra, whether it be in love or hate.
>>
>>92181051
We should not be encouraging the Steve-Os of creativity.
>>
>>92168363
You mean the trajectory it was literally always going to have?
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>>92169018
>>A Mary Sue
you don't even know what you are talking about
>>
>>92175485

Where she fights an army, something that is normal in Samurai Jack? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
>>
>>92168363
At least more people are starting to realize that SJ was never good, that's probably the best thing to come from this reboot desu.
>>
>>92180695

Jack has literally had many epic fights with Aku. Its been done.
>>
>>92175914
>what is a styalized cartoon

/co/ is so nitpicky for no reason
>>
>>92168850
>she plays a key role in the story though.
Only because the writers engineered it so. All Jack needed to do was get his sword and get back to the past. Jack should never have considered killing himself. Ever.
>>
>>92178667
lol and what do (You) do?
>>
>>92183191
Not one that was conclusive. Not one that was supposed to be the capstone in his Odyssey
>>
Funny thing is, according to genndy, ashi was always supposed to be on the series, but it supposedly didnt fit with the CN expectations.
>>
>>92177461
It will open with humping sounds and moanings
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>>92183273

You know exactly what I meant. We know that Aku literally cannot fucking fight Jack. In fact, I am willing to say Aku magically being able to suddenly fight Jack with his sword was bullshit. Otherwise, how bout you wait and see how the show ends?
>>
>>92177086

How about you go back and watch the original seasons and realize the new season is literally just that?
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>>92183336
I am. But wait and see isnt an excuse for the shit going on now. I didnt mean spend the whole season with him just fighting Aku either, clearly there has to be build up. But instead most of this final fucking season has been devoted to a literal who forced love interest literally no one fucking wanted or asked for, and dont give me that shit of some people might have. You know good fucking well that no one thought Samurai Jack was a show lacking in relationshit garbage.
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>>92169632
He got his ass beat and was knocked out. Cold. Fucking. OUT.
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>>92169632
Because Aku said he destroyed all of the time portals? Why would he think the Guardian's would still be around?
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>>92183416

>50 years have passed.
>I've been really lonely.
>Literally the opposite of me can relate to me.
>Not Aku with a vagina this time. I'm positive.

Also, there are several episodes of Jack sharing his fucking adventures with a companion.
>>
>>92175647
>lmao it's a cartoon
why do you even post on this website
>>
>>92183483
Again, not the final fucking season with limited episodes to tell his final fucking story.
>>
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>>92183533

I don't know what you fucking wanted, bro. This is as Samurai Jack as it gets. Sorry you ain't having fun cause its not Naruto.
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>>92183533
Apparently it's up to you if time can't be wasted and not Genndy?
>>
>>92183575
>Lmao sorry it aint anime enough for you
>He says while posting anime shit
Weak shitpost.
>>
Has so much salt ever derailed the purpose of a board so much?

But, OP, you do realize this was they original direction of the show, right?
>>
>>92183602
I didnt say that, it's sure not going to stop him.
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>>92183575
>horribly paced romance
>not episodic
>no mako
>"This is as Samurai Jack as it gets."
What did he mean by this?
>>
>>92183649
The show had no direction. It was literally just a bunch of things Genndy thought looked cool, then he ran out of them in season 4 and it got cancelled.
>>
WHERE THE FUCK IS THE DOWNLOAD
>>
>>92183635
>anime artstyle means it's anime
>doesn't know it's actually vidya
Weak shitpost.
>>
>>92168430
Watcha!!
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>>92183764
>Looks like anime but aint anime
>It's completely different and from a game which matters on this comic and cartoon board!
Slightly better shitpost.
>>
>>92183921
>erroneously think X is Y
>try to downplay it when you are called on your stupidity
Pretty bad shitpost.
>>
>>92169587
She'll probably force him through, in turn sacrificing her existence for him to save the world even though he was having second thoughts about it because he knew it would erase her completely.
>>
>>92184019
>Thinking you "called out" anyone by saying a cartoon isnt Naruto
Retarded and weak shitpost.
>>
>>92177160

Draenerys from game of thrones is pretty much a mary sue
>>
>>92184088
>shit I was just shown to not know what the fuck I'm talking about
>I know I'll just pretend I never said it in the first place hahahaha
Really low effort shitpost.
>>
You fucking idiots

Jack had given up hope
he had nothing left to fight for, because he thought any chance of returning to the past had gone, and that he would be unable to defeat Aku without his sword

He was fully prepared to die and end it all
Until Ashi showed up

Ashi gave Jack something worth fighting for
Something worth living for
How does /co/ not understand this?Oh...right....>implying /co/ understands romance
>>
>>92183293
I 100% believe this given how fast she got put in once he got to make his series in a less restricted platform.
>>
>>92184259
Oh right, she gave him hope by making him kill a human for the first time in his life and then doing a 180 when she saw a ladybug. Really believable and genuine writing.
>>
>>92184196
>Strawmanning this blatantly
>Still lazily and sloppily copying my own initial post format because you're devoid of creativity, thought, or any ground to stand on
I guess we're done here since your shitposts certainly arent going to get any better and you will fail to prove me wrong.
>>
>>92172353
>Why are Ashifags always on the defensive?
>Is it because you can't defend
>I have not seen one argument for why Jashi is good, only baseless accusations of misogyny.
Nice job contradicting yourself, faggot.
>>
>>92184319
I'm not even the guy you originally replied to. I just wanted to let you know how retarded you were for assuming the source material of something you knew nothing about. Maybe do the opposite in future.
>>
>>92184420
>I'm not even the guy you originally replied to
Sure you arent, stupid. Look at all the fucks people are giving.
>>
>>92184446
Thank you for agreeing with me. Another bit of advice: you can't convey sarcasm through text due to lack of tone and inflection. Also, prove you wrong about what? There's nothing to prove you wrong about. The original poster was literally not posting anime. It is a video game. You have no leg to stand on.
>lmao nobody gives a fuck xD
Now you're the one bringing out the non arguments. Nice.
>>
>>92184535
You aren't making any sense. But okay stupid.
>>
>>92183196
>Only because the writers engineered it so.

Technically speaking, all Jack had to do was kill Aku in the first episode instead of giving a speech, but it was engineered by the writers so that he gave Aku enough time to throw him through time..
>>
Not reading this thread since /co/ is overrun with sjwish tumblr crossposters now, but was I right to turn off my TV after the scotsmans unceremonious death and bullshit "but you can still see him hanging out as an ineffectual ghost lol we're totally not gonna do this to jack as well" resurrection?
>>
File: noice.gif (1019KB, 450x360px) Image search: [Google]
noice.gif
1019KB, 450x360px
>jack puts benis in bagina
>baby fights aku
>/endseries
>>
>>92184763
>pretending to be retarded
Ok. Bye.
>>
>>92185253
>Being legit retarded
See ya
>>
>>92183383
Last time I checked, Jack wasn't winning fights through bullshit and having every episode loaded with a character that not only wastes time but belittles the narrative in S1-4.
>>
>>92183146
The way she fights the army wasn't normal for Samurai Jack at all.
>>
Ashi's purpose is going to be to remind Jack that if he actually goes back to the past and change things, it would mean that the existences of the people he met, saved, and befriended will all be wiped out.
>>
>>92168363
nope. but you're derailing what potential this board might otherwise have on a sunday night
Thread posts: 166
Thread images: 22


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