SECRET EMPIRE Spencer interview

>"It's definitely, as far as I'm concerned, Rick's final hour. It's very sad."

>As for how the Secret Empire storyline plays out, Spencer said "if you think that the ending is everyone smiles and says 'no hard feelings' or forgets that anything bad ever happened, that's just not the kind of story that I like to do." He said issue 2 starts in an even lower place than the end of issue 1.

>"They really are broken. It's about what they set out to do in the face of that," he said.

>>92075687
Is that a Granov cover?
Looks weird.

>we
>AoA
Don't flatter yourself Nicky

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>>92075687
>liking Age of Ultron

>I wanted Captain America to be a villain because I wanted to take him away from the status quo.

Says the writer who couldn't write any good captain America stories so he just turned him into a villain using space magic.

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Now Rick can come back as Abom at a later date instead of being some weird dudebro turned master .

Honestly wish Abomination Rick was Banner's legacy character instead of Cho

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>>92075687
>>92075698
>>Asserting very strongly Rick Jones is dead.
>>Kills off his new Quasar in 0 issue

Like, I get that he's trying to be shocking, but instead I'm just feeling "Well, that was a load of buildup for nothing"

>>92075687
Every Marvel event feels so desperate.
It genuinely bums me out a little.

These pathetic, terrible stories are really all the old girl's got left.

>>92075826
Quasar is 100% gonna come back and help save the day, leading into a new ongoing that will sell terribly.

>>92075698
>>>As for how the Secret Empire storyline plays out, Spencer said "if you think that the ending is everyone smiles and says 'no hard feelings' or forgets that anything bad ever happened, that's just not the kind of story that I like to do.

Translation: I'm ending Secret Empire with Cap dying in disgrace and everything irrevocably fucked beyond all hope of restoration to the way things were No fucking cosmic reset button push, on my watch You faggots will have to buy the Legacy one-shogt to see how we unfuck ourselves and unfuck Steve after I rape him and slit his throat and urinate on his corpse when I'm done

>>92075687
He keeps trying to make a big deal out of Cap being evil, but who cares?

There's no real shock value since the second issue of the ongoing released.
It's not Cap. Not really, anyway. Reality was changed.
It's like getting mad about differences between 616 Blink and AoA Blink. They aren't really the same character.

>>92075757
It's worse than that: he turned Steve into a Nazi BECAUSE he was pissy no one liked SJW Sadie SamCap and everyone wanted Steve Rogers back after Nick basically rendered Sam radioactive within the span of about six issue after Remender set up SamCap and in a manner that people like.

>>92075870
Shit, I'd be down for a quasar book.

>>92075880
I could actually see Marvel doing something as utterly retarded as this.

And really, unless the "reset" is Peter and MJ voiding Mephisto's deal and taking Nazi Cap out of canon as far as it being an explicit side effect of a "butterfly effect" from removing the Parker marriage from canon, I fully expect the internet to burn Marvel alive if they drag out undoing Secret Empire

>>92075849
You won't be saying that after you hear about Marvel's NEXT BIG EVENT!

Picture this: Some of the heroes have to fight some of the other heroes! Also, a b-lister dies in the first issue. Every title gets a tie-in! Then they all get relaunched! Nothing will be the same again!

Don't miss Civil Secret Maximum Crusade Wars III! Starting exactly two seconds after Secret Empire ends!

So in other throwing as many classic Avengers under the bus and promoting the legacy heroes,go fuck yourself with a pineapple you neoliberal hack.

>>92075912
Steve's book isn't good, but it does warm my heart a tiny bit that it sells notably better than Sam's.

Although I do respect Spencer's treatment of USAgent in the latter.

>>92075919
Starring the literally who SHIELD girl and probably written by Spencer?

>>92075944
don't forget that a legacy hero and/or a mutant dies at the end for the sake of drama

Honestly I love Marvel and I absolutely love Nick Spencer!

They give me hope as a writer.

>>92075687
Nick, last time the Avengers turned evil it was because they were magically turned them into hilariously over-the-top cunts.

Having them ally with Super Nazis just because Cap says they're cool is retarded.

It's astonishing that Spencer is falling into the Event traps people don't like.
>>THESE DEATHS ARE REAL!
>>Not everyone will be happy in the end!
>>Status Quo has changed

He's saying the same shit we get all the fucking time.

>>92075986
Be sure to have zero integrity and you'll go far.

>>92076008
While genuinely thinking he's being clever and telling a compelling story.

What ever happened to Nomad?

>>92076044
Nick despises Memender.

>people complain about status quo and Marvel never taking risks
>writer shakes the fuck up out of the status quo and Marvel makes a huge risk making one of their star heroes a villain
>people complain about change to status quo

Damned if you do damned if you don't. I think it's been a good story so far. I'm glad Quicksilver isn't stuck in New York and will probably see some action.

>>92076044
Killed by Zemo which Steve is cool with because they're boyfriends now

>>92076008
Assuming Secret Empire's back end worth of issues are not being heavily rewritten, to lead into Legacy, then there is a serious fear to be had that Marvel will not force rewrites and let Spencer have Secret Empire play out as he originally intended, downer ending and all, out of a fucked in the head sense of loyalty to Spencer at best or at worse, a screw you to fans.

It would explain the disclaimer that Marvel/Disney pushed onto their media outlets to shill (they refused to overrule Spencer/rewrite the ending to Secret Empire and are going to try and trick people to buy the whole thing with the false implied promise of everything being undone at the end for a happy ending). Or the recent article by Rich on Bleeding Cool where they basically said "If you hate Secret Empire and Nazi Cap, just ignore it and come back when Legacy starts".

Which goes beyond "Secret Empire will end with a reset" and Rich all but outright stating that SE #9 won't have ANY reset whatsoever and the actual reset won't happen until Legacy (meaning the reboot itself won't happen until the final pages of Legacy itself as far as Marvel rebooting the Marvel Universe in the one-shot).

At which point, one has to ask which Marvel editors and Disney higher ups, does Nick Spencer have photos of them raping little girls to blackmail them into letting Secret Empire run with no changes to salvage the catastrophe it's going to be. Because if it ends with a downer ending with nothing undone, then the Secret Empire TPB and tie-in trades will sell as badly and then some, like the Secret Wars tie-in trades sold for shit.

>>92075870
>>92075919
What if its an Annihilators type book but without the old roster, instead you get nuQuasar, Starbrand, and Nightmask

>>92076171
Yeah, Marvel's just itching to bust them out again.

>>92076003
AIM are good guys now. Why not give Hydra the benefit of the doubt?

>>92075962
Yes. I'd prefer Wendell (or even Phylla, haha...) but new girl could be fun.

Anything COSMIC would be nice. And I actually like Nick Spencer as a writer.

>>92076008
This
h
I
s

It sounds like the same bullshit Bendis fed us for Civil War 2.

>>92076171
100% would give Marvel my money
Star Brand and Quasar were dope when I was little

>>92076171
That wouldn't really be an annihilators type book, though, not on any level. I wouldn't be against that, totally, honestly. I felt like Starbrand had a lot of potential, and Nightmask had a cool design.

>>92075880
Nah, Marvel already spoiled the ending to try to get people to stop being super mad. They said Cap saves the day in the end.

>>92075687

I honestly at times wonder how this is the same guy who writes The Fix, which is hilarious and fantastic.

Its like once you take on something with Marvel the brainleeches come for you that night while you sleep to sap everything but your most creative thoughts...

>>92076088
This. No matter what anyone says, I think Secret Empire is the coolest thing Marvel has done since I've been reading comics, which was when ANAD launched. I mean I read a few when I was a kid, but I started following the Marvel universe with ANAD and Secret Empire is definitely my favorite thing that's happened so far.

>>92076171
I'd rather just have a Quasars book with Wendell, Phyla and Avril doing gay shit in space.

>>92075687
>>92075698
Shiiiiiiiiiit
Spencer just killed off a comic book character!!!!!1!
This has never been done before in the history of superheroes and superhero events!!!
It also shows that this event is important and matters very much. This event will change the state of comics for years to come.
Plus it makes the story much more mature which makes me an adult very happy because I, an adult, like mature things because they make me mature. It's so much more mature than those shitty old comics made by fags like Kirby. People NEEED to realize that comics (or graphic novels as I call them) aren't just for kids. They are much more than kiddie shit.

>>92075698
>As for how the Secret Empire storyline plays out, Spencer said "if you think that the ending is everyone smiles and says 'no hard feelings' or forgets that anything bad ever happened, that's just not the kind of story that I like to do." He said issue 2 starts in an even lower place than the end of issue 1.

So he literally turned one of my favorite heroes into a cool villain who will have a stain on his record for a while.

Maybe this will be a Hank Pym thing "Steve remember that time when you were a Nazi?" or "Hey at least I'm not a nazi" or something?

>>92076345
I've been reading since 2004 and it's one of the best things I've read in mainstream Marvel. The whole story has been handled well imo.

So Cap, Iron Man, and Carol have all been event villains now.

Is the next one gonna be Thor?
He becomes the next big event villain before turning around and stopping an even bigger villain by finally picking the hammer back up.

>>92076359
>Maybe this will be a Hank Pym thing "Steve remember that time when you were a Nazi?" or "Hey at least I'm not a nazi" or something?

I'm sure we'll get some good jokes out of it at least.

>>92076381
Eh I dunno man. Ellis T-Bolts had a better and more enjoyable run than the entire build up for Secret Empire and it was released around that era.

>>92076359
Maybe you shouldn't have been such a fucking racist then, you KKK GamerGate Trump Jimmy Kimmel Loving Shitlord!!!!!

Maybe you should have bought millions of copies of Sam's shitty ongoing instead of wanting your favorite character back you racist fuck!!!!!

>>92076398
I could see a future event where Thor is king and Asgard and the Ten Realms declares war on Earth.. Marvel has technically never done that before.

>>92075687
>And part of that breaking of the status quo comes with the death by firing squad of Rick Jones.
Yeah genius, mimic the scene that tells right away what's wrong with Batman vs Superman. That should get you plenty of readers back.

>>92076171
Given that I purchased all the issues of Weissman's 'Brand and 'Mask...

>>92076406
I said one of. Thunderbolts are my favorite team. Especially Ellisbolts. It's one of the things I recommend to people who have started getting into comics and want something a bit different.

>>92075687

The only thing I've disliked about Secret Empire so far is the resistance part, which was weak as hell. And I'm not a fan of Clint / Natasha shipping.

>>92076461
Was that good? Sounded interesting but I never read a single issue before cancellation.

>>92076484
Marvel putting the cheapest art they could get on it didn't do the book any favors.

>>92076484
I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I'm not bothered much by wonky art. Also, the ending is rushed, but that's because Weissman clearly had a ton of stuff planned and had to compress everything because of cancellation. All that said, I'd recommend it.

>>92075687
>>92075698
Wow....so the Marvel universe will not be the same again?....wow...

>>92076044
>>92076105
Wait, they brought him back fom being killed by Bucky just to kill him off in some stupid-ass story AGAIN?!

>>92076231
Uh he meant with legacy Quasar instead of the original though

>>92076239
That's his point I think?

>>92076483
I'm happy that characters I like that don't get a lot of attention (Scott Lang, Quicksilver, Tigra) are a part of it, but everything's been focused on the Teen squad and Hawkeye/Natasha at this point.

Also I just realized we're likely going to get a Scott Lang/Eric O'Grady fight soon written by Spencer. Pretty sure they haven't ever met yet. Should be gud.

>>92076456
>Yeah genius, mimic the scene that tells right away what's wrong with Batman vs Superman. That should get you plenty of readers back.
Oh god! My sides! That's a good point! They fucking hated that movie more than the holocaust and kept bringing it up. And yet, they made the exact same mistake.

They have no self-awareness whatsoever.

I'm literally glad Mickey kicked these fucks out of the Movie Division.

>>92076545
Tigra popping up all of a sudden should be a huge red flag, buddy.

And that's not actually Eric, it's a villainous LMD copy of him.

>>92076539
Oh I thought you meant Zola Jr. Nah,that Nomad is still dead as fuck. Has not been brought up at all since he died.

kek maybe Kraken is actually Jack Monroe.

>>92076545
Why did O'Grady use the same name as Lang if they're not connected?

>>92076571
Maybe. Maybe not.

And yeah, I know, but it's still technically an Eric. He has a lot of his personality and whatnot.

>>92075687
>>92075698
>Le Edgy Character Death for Shockvalue
>Le Cynical Ending where everyone is Divided
Amazing, Spencer. That's never been done before in comic events. You are really breaking the mold.

>>92076345
>which was when ANAD launched
Well, I guess that kinda makes sense, but damn, I feel really sorry for you.

>>92076580
Like Scott, Eric only became Ant-Man by stealing the suit.
Scott was dead until right around Eric's own death.

>>92076105
Wait wat?
Bucky isn't Nomad.

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>>92076545
Tigra is cute

>>92075687
>>92075698
finally, a mature comic for a mature person like myself

>>92075687
why do we keep talking about this shit?
honest question

>>92076671
And no longer problematic.

>>92075687
>All the new forced diversity women fighting the evil white man
fuck Marlel, seriously

>>92076686
Most of us hate ourselves.

>>92076722
Ah right, I forgot

>>92076686
It's event that doesn't suck yet

>>92076686
Uhhh, because it's the most important comic of the decade? DUHH! Seriously, did you not read the article? Nothing is going to be the same again! This story matters! Characters are dying! There is a sad ending!

>>92076753
It has inhumans, especially a new character that will probably be a big deal, because you know, after CWII and MU, it seems to be the rule that all marvel events are inhuman-centric

>>92076671
Something is wrong with Tigra's Burqa. It's not covering her face or arms. How can we appease Tumblr and Iran (Marvel's fanbase according to Brevoort) if she isn't fully covered up? What if a child saw this? This is absolute haram.

>>92076637
Ouch

>>92076779

Those Inhumans are being rounded up and sent to camps, those gene degenerates are getting what's coming to them.

>>92076759
OMG, I must buy 10 copies, before they become collectors value. Nao!

>>92076811
Very unique idea. It's weird that the X-Men never ever really had that idea in their books.

>>92076779
speaking of, when the X-Men were popular, were they (or mutants) ever the key players in any marvel event beside Onslaught?

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>>92076426
>Jimmy Kimmel
>the guy who cries on tv for people to save Obamacare
>liked by right wingers

>>92076779
Not just a Inhuman. A Inhuman with a really gross power. Because this super duper serious Trump Metaphor story needed a man who makes lunchboxes with his stomach and vomits them out. Truly this story is as Kino as Citizen Kane and Titanic.

>>92076836
God, I hate shithumans. When will the push stop?

>>92076814
Make sure you buy the special variants! They may be worth something one day!

>>92076854
Silly me, how could I forget. I guess that I'll have to "take" some of my dad's money that he has to pay mortgage, and spend it on the new delicious variant cover. Dad will thank me, when this variant will be worth gazillions

>>92076832
AvX
Although that was suppose to be an X-event but was high jacked because of the Avengers movie.

>>92076863
*has collected
the excitement doesn't let me write properly

>>92076572
Oh. Guess the lame Cap writers just have a hateboner for Nomads and Buckys.

>>92076871
>Although that was suppose to be an X-event but was high jacked because of the Avengers movie.
This is the thought that I immediately had, when I've seen the first sentence of your post, and I wanted to post it, but then I've read the second sentence of your post

>>92075687
>I was always a big fan of stories like Man in the High Castle
WHAT
A
SURPRISE

>>92076345
>>92076381

>people who started reading near or after Marvel went to shit think this is great

Yeah that sums it up nicely.

>>92076835
He invited Trump to his show and treated him like a human being instead of shooting him. He literally made Trump win the election. We all know this (he probably also worked for the Russians). Just ask Mark Waid on twitter.

>>92076927
are you sure you're not thinking of Jimmy Fallon

>>92076539
I don't care if their legacy characters if its 1/2 as cool as their original series
weird cosmic stuff is my jam

>>92076545
With that cast of senior characters and all those teens, it almost felt like a mix of WCA and New Warriors or Avengers Academy.

>>92075826
The way Quasar was "killed off" was very obviously hinting at a return.

>>92076940
Damn it! Wrong fucking Jimmy! I always get my Jimmys mixed up. My bad.

>>92076995
Don't let your Jimmies be rustled.

>>92076995
it's easy: Jimmy Fallon is the unfunny faggot and Jimmy Kimmel is the fat unfunny faggot

>>92076832
They had major roles in the following X-Overs:

Secret Wars
Secret Wars II
Inferno (main characters)
Infinity Gauntlet (Wolverine has a major role, plus Cyclops was in it)
Infinity War (Xavier and Jean Grey have a major role)
Infinity Crusade (Storm has a major role)
Onslaught
Maximum Security
House of M
Avengers Vs X-Men
Age of Ultron (Emma and Wolverine have major roles)
AXIS

>>92077000
This thread is a lot of pun

>>92076940
That's okay, Emma Watson did too

>>92077004
>Secret Wars
are you kidding me?

>Secret Wars II
they had equal role to anyone else, they weren't taking over the event

>Inferno
okay, this one started with the X-Men

>Infinity Gauntlet
Cyclops and Wolverine literally appeared as a background characters. They didn't even had any speaking line. Anon, don't push my patience.

>Infinity War
same as SW II

>Infinity Crusade
Now, this one is interesting, because while X-books omitted this event, the X-Men indeed have a bigger role than usual in this

>Onslaught
I already mentioned it

>Maximum Security
Equal role, not the KEY role

>House of M, AvX
fuck this event and fuck you for mentioning it

>Age of Ultron
You mean, Sue Storm and Wolverine had major roles in it, right

>Axis
yeah, albeit it was supposed to be Uncanny Avengers arc, but whatever

>>92075687
This interview comes off so insincere for some reason.

>>92075870
>>92076171
You know they won't do that, Quqzar Lesbo would be about Avril going to college and using her powers to order pizza with Hellcat and then punching white males who didn't take their girlfriends shopping.

>>92077070
>males dating females
very problematic and rapey

>>92076359
How long did Tony's "stain" last?
How long did Peter's "stain" last?
People give a shit about Cap, they've never given a shit about Hank Pym, so it'll be night and day.

There's a reason Pym still got that shit, even AFTER Remender ultronned him. No one fucking cares about Pym, and they couldn't be fucked to write anything beyond "smart guy that slapped wife once".

Shit, even when Slott writes a Pym focused book, he just wrote an entirely new character and slapped Pym's name on it.

>>92077088
>How long did Tony's "stain" last?
it's still not gone

I don't think Caps stain will last that long, mostly because people seem to not give a shit about this event anyway.

I'm extremely excited to see where the sale numbers lie for this event.

>>92077103
It's been gone for a long time, both in universe and out. No one gives a shit about his role in Civil War anymore.

Or shit, even secret wars.

>>92076008
\thread

>>92077171
rdj probably played a big role in that, just guessing

>>92076115
Honestly I see it more like this: Not only is Spencer's reputation on the line with this but so is Brevoort's (since not only did he edit Civil War II, Spencer's Cap and now currently editing Secret Empire, he's the one who claimed when fans are angry, the books sell) and maybe also Alonso to an extent since all the problems are happening under his watch.

They need to prove to Disney that they know what they're doing so they want to make sure sales do pretty well on this. Otherwise if this does disastrously or causes more bad PR toward Marvel (and by extension Disney) then (assuming Rich is right about this) Feige and Marvel Studios will really make Disney aware of that bad press to drag down Ike's reputation.

This may be their last chance to prove they don't need Disney to intervene. But it does seem ominous that they needed ABC to report that everything will be fine.

>>92078060
>Rich
What did that fag say this time?

>>92078171
He said in an article, "And I am aware that Marvel Studios has a thing for making Disney HQ aware of negative headlines regarding the comics side."

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/07/brian-hibbs-tells-new-york-times-marvels-sales-slumped-not-diversity/

>>92075944
>You won't be saying that after you hear about Marvel's NEXT BIG EVENT!

For what it's worth, Marvel has said this will be their last big event for a while. I think they've finally gotten the message that we're all kind of burned out on this sort of thing.

Back when these company-wide events started, we had Secret Wars II in 1986 and then Inferno in 1989. A solid three years between 'events' and each one was pretty special and cool when they happened because they were unusual. If we get back to a schedule like that I certainly won't complain.

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>>92075687
So are the SJWs and other casuals raging about Thor, Vision and the Scarlet Witch joining the Nazis?

>>92075687
>"So a big part of my pitch was 'what if we really do it this time?' What if the bad guys win, and there's a jump in time, and then we see what the country and what the world looks like after they've won?"
If the event starts with reality warping and sure as hell will end with reality warping, then it's no different from "alternate realities stories".

>>92078701
Back then, there were annual crossovers, though
'member Evolutionary Wars?

>>92079348
To be fair, stuff like Evolutionary War and Atlantis Attacks was confined to the Annuals and didn't really affect any of the main books.
People only remember Evolutionary War these days because of how it created a big continuity clusterfuck with the Jackal's clones.

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>>92075934
>And really, unless the "reset" is Peter and MJ voiding Mephisto's deal and taking Nazi Cap out of canon as far as it being an explicit side effect of a "butterfly effect" from removing the Parker marriage from canon

PRESS THE BUTTON, MARVEL.

I mean, I doubt they'll do it, but honestly.

>>92076008
HE BROKE NEW GROUND!

>>92078723
> Steve is so toxic that readers have no choice but to embrace Sam Wilson as Cap for the foreseeable future, cementing FalCap.
Sam will be Cap by default, thanks to Spencer's brand of affirmative action; sinking the competition.

> Jane Thor is seen as the heroic Thor while Odinson is seen as a failure. Cementing FemThor.
Odinson is "unworthy" while Jane battles Cancer.

> Vision is seen as a robot by most Marvel writers, and thus is seen as expendable. His daughter is now written as a generic scifi robot.

> Scarlet Witch is clearly loathed by Marvel's comics division.
Marvel won't tarnish it's sacred Mary Sue heroines, but Wanda is the heroine you can shit on as much as you like:

Carol: The Best, Yass Queen!
Kate: Better than Clint!
America: Amazing Latina Lady!
FemThor: More worthy than that loser shit Odinson
Moon Girl: Smartest
Riri: Smarter, cooler than Tony
Kamala: Muslim Heroine

Wanda: Crazy, Villainous, Genocider

>>92077017
Emma gets all wet down there if you mention Jimmy Fallon, so if she is reading this...

Anyone else pissed by Odinsons comeback? He was absent since SW and now hes just on earth - and thats it. Nothing else, but a "Avengers asemble"

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I don't like Spencer but he is absolutely right.

The only legitimate complaint is that this kind of story has been over done and it's stupid to do it t Cap on Kirby's hundredth birthday.

But this is ONLY happening because a vocal group of people who don't read comics but watch MCU movies is triggered. I had to use the word because it's nearly lost all meaning but the people complaining really are the stereotypical snowflakes that are so stuck in their sheltered world view that anything different makes them shit their diapers.

These are the same people that called Chris Evans a problematic fave because he laughed at a slut joke even though he agrees with all of their politics. These people put actors and fictional characters on a pedestal and expect them to always be shining examples to reinforce their opinions.

>>92079704
> Unworthy
> Comes back
> They make him even more Unworthy

>>92079780
>The only legitimate complaint is that this kind of story has been over done and it's stupid to do it t Cap on Kirby's hundredth birthday.
The problem is also that this was supposed to be Cap's big return after a while of old man Rogers. He says that he was breaking status quo, but he didn't even have his status quo back for a while before this was done.

And old man Rogers already had just been character assassinated with the Secret Wars stupidity (punishing Tony is more important than saving the world!).

>>92079704
His big comeback will be in the Phoenix arc over in Thor.

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>>92079826
B-but I want a Steve Rogers, who is crying, because his ol´pal Odinson is back and a harem of She Hulk, Spiderwoman and Scarlet Witch for Odinsons´s comeback.

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>>92079868
>harem of She Hulk

Jen alone would be a feast worthy of the gods.

>>92075698
>lower than the heart and soul of the marvel universe getting executed by a firing squad

how can this POSSIBLY get any worse

>>92075687
How does he have such a lack of self awareness?

>>92076115

I still don't know if Secret Wars tie ins continued plot threads from books, or were all alt universe things. I'm that out of the loop.

>>92079582
Don't forget Medusa, who's now a genocidal, usuping, cuckist bitch, but somehow is supposed to be a good girl who can't even be hit in the books.

>>92075687
steve is going to get back to the good side, maybe in a year or 5 years, I take it as a fact. What I don`t like is the remorse stories about him killing rick jones, flag, las vegas and so on.
Is not a let`s make him bad and return him to good, they are destroying the character for the future. The pristine and eating pies good captain america is gone forever because they went full retard with this story, there is no come back, there always be this baggage in his history.
To fix it they would need to execute a time travel bullshit shenanigan or a reboot.
If the story continues like the first issue I think that marvel has jumped the shark like no one else has done before.

>>92081121
It's not the real Steve, easy fix.
This is like blaming real Beast for Dark Beast's crimes.

>>92081141
But it is. He's tarnished regardless. The stink will linger for years.

Meanwhile, Nick Spencer's fave, Sam Wilson, will be cemented as Cap, perhaps even permanently.

>>92076088
>taking risks
>yet another moral compass of heroes reversed event
>yet another heroes vs heroes event
>yet another Tony vs Steve event
>yet another timeskip where the bad guys won event

How fucking new are you?

>>92081190
fuck, sam is so uninteresting that I did not even care enough to read one issue to look how it is.

>>92081190
It isn't. This is a Steve who had a different history from the one we know. An alternate Steve replaced the one we know.

>>92081190
The entire setup is Cap's reality being altered to turn him evil. It's not really his doing.

I'd actually be pretty impressed if they'd had the balls to actually make Cap a villain, but they didn't

>>92081056
Yep, her too. Untouchable and promoted hard.

You just knew Wanda would get the short straw because she's not one of the untouchable "modern" stronk ladies.

>>92076185
Because like half of the Hydra high council was literal Nazis as in they were part of the Nazi party during WW2

>>92081280
Is canon steve that the cosmic cube injected another story into him, he remembers both and choose hydra.

>>92081277
Maybe you don't care for him because you've never read him, retard. Remender's run was phenomenal.

>>92076572
He didn't die, he's been in comic limbo since the end of Remender's Hail Hydra Secret Wars tie-in

>>92081434
I have read him on the avengers and when he appears on steve comics, there has been no appeal that could make me want to read it in his solo comic. Why should I, so you don`t call me a retard?.

>>92081450
That's what he gets for being white and not taking the Falcon identity so Sam has to stay Captain America.

>>92081415
That's even worse.

Him choosing it is horrendous.

>>92081508
Kill yourself. Just kill yourself and stop shitposting, for God's sake.

>>92081415
Because Kobik-Steve seriously believes his is the true reality and that he was rewritten into being 616-Steve.

>>92081056
Meanwhile Bloack Bolt is literally covered in shit, being killed over and over.

Maybe it's just me, but don't you think this whole "Secret Empire" have a lot of similarities with DC's "Injustice" story.

>Sends Chavez and Cpt Marvel to Space
>locks up inhumans
Why do we hate him?

>>92082321
Injustice is just a shittier version of Squadron Supreme. The "noble superhero becomes a fascist and improves the world through evil means while vigilante heroes create a resistance movement" is hardly a new concept for cape comics.

>>92082797
>Injustice is just a shittier version of a shitty JL ripoff
OK.

>>92082414
We don't. He's literally /ourguy/.

>>92082818
>Squadron Supreme
>shitty
Arguable the best limited series Marvel has ever published and better than the majority of JL runs, but sure, "shitty."

>>92075687
I really don't understand why so many people are upset about this storyline. It's a comic book. It's a story about a fictional character. It's not permanent because nothing in comics ever is. If you don't like it, just don't buy it. I've been reading comics for 30+ years and have seen a lot of things in that time. This didn't even bother me at all.

>>92076671
how can she clean herself if she has that much clothing

>>92083030
Confirmed for DC fag

>>92081190
>Implying Hydra didn't brainwash baby Steve in the altered past

>>92083030
The people that are upset don't actually read comics. They just heard from clickbait and twitter/tumblr rage that "Captain America is a nazi!" and that was their queue to start petitions and send death threats.

>>92083090
I'm actually the biggest Marvelfag. I've barely read any DC at all and just know the wider lore about it, kinda.

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>>92082979
>>92083090
>LOL DC ARE NAZIS! MAKE MINE MARVEL!
>the best limited series Marvel has ever published

>>92083179
Have you actually read Gruenwald's Squadron Supreme? Stop being a company wars faggot for once in your life and realise that just because something isn't published by DC doesn't make it automatic shit.

>>92083179
>the best limited series Marvel has ever published
Name a better one.

>>92076088
>Marvel taking risks.
>It's heroes vs heroes, plus some disposable villain shmucks in the background.
>Disney outright promises that Cap will go back to being a good guy after the event ends.

Interns, please.

>>92083030

They don't read the comics. They're satisfied with an out of context scan or two and draw their conclusions from there before they start to bellyache.

...so pretty much most of /co/, funnily enough.

>>92083207
>just because something isn't published by DC doesn't make it automatic shit.
Not even Marvel NOW 2.0, shill?

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>>92083207
>Gruenwald

>>92083262
NOW 2.0 had Nova, CAGE!, Foolkiller, and Ultimates^2.

>>92083138
>>92083253
so to summarize:
>I'm a huge comic book fan
>I don't read comic books

>>92075934
Holy shit you marriage tards are insane

>>92083290
>cancelled
>good art, bad writing
>cancelled
>Ewing shit
Confirmed for shill.

>>92083303
Correct. The response from comic fans ranges from "this is a pretty good superior-style hero becomes a villain story" to "I'm sick of event comics and hero-becomes-a-villain stories. Marvel Rebirth when?" The response from MCUfags, tumblrites, normies and various other people who don't actually read comics but act like they care about what happens in them because they watched a few movies is "WHAT!? THEY MADE CAP A NAZI?! OUTRAGE!!!!"

>>92083350
>sales = quality
You're not even trying.

>>92083207
Squadron Supreme is a ripoff regardless.

>>92083374
and those people don't even know Marvel killed Captain America a decade ago, and that was "permanent" too and people went crazy too. It got news coverage everywhere.

Then Cap got better.

>>92083397
Says the Disney shill who loves to post RT macros in every cape movie thread.

>>92075687
>Age of Apocalypse
>Zero Tolerance
>House of M
>Dark Reign
>Axis
There where already alot, even 3 in the 616 reality.

>>92083421
The problem most people have with secret empire isnt "hur dur they made captain america bad" or even "her dur they kiled/ruined a character", its that spencer decided to take authorial control over the entire cannon of marvel comics.

The new cannon is:
>Nazis won ww2
>Hydra are not Nazis
>Allies use the cosmic cube to change the present (not the past) to make it look like and everybody think the nazis lost and allies won
>Captain America always new and was a sleeper double agent the whole time in every captain america story in 616
>Red skull attempts to turn captain america to hydra, accidentally makes him remember properly and start to uncover the secret history
>Hydra take over america

>>92084126
After reading your
>to uncover the secret history
can it be that Spencer is kinda a conspiracy fanatic?
Remember that in issue 1 the school of this whole real history lesson or the discussion of using tap water or chemtrails to controll people.
Im not sure if he just used it to make fun of it or not. But his hate on millenials kinda wonders me if he isnt someone that thinks that most dont see the truth but him.
And all this Cap reads as an allogory to Trump.

>>92080700
No. No he does not.
See >>92076008 and >>92076456

>>92084648
isaac perlmutter, marvel comics chief executive, personally donated like five million bucks to trump

>>92075687
>"So a big part of my pitch was 'what if we really do it this time?'"

But those other version were for real too? I mean you just draw it and people read it what does it matter if it's "canon."

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>>92076008
Secret Empire is Spencer's Planet X. Marvel will backpedal months after it's over. Just not with a cosmic cube, probably.

>>92084795
So all the diversity ush is just to cover up that perlmutter is far right?
Secret Empire is an allegory for Marvel?
That would explain why no X-Men, Inhumans in death camps or the dirty Fantastic Car (Fantastic Four like the Marvel family) driven by the Champions (the legacy Heroes).
I wonder if you could interpret Secret Empire as Mavel Comics intern thing. Lol

>>92084847
>We are absolutely 100 percent not gonna do that.

Is this like when he said

>Issue 2 will lay a lot of our cards on the table in terms of what the new status quo is, but the one thing we can say unequivocally is: This is not a clone, not an imposter, not mind control, not someone else acting through Steve. This really is Steve Rogers, Captain America himself.

Which is kind of a weasely way of saying that Cosmic Cube alterations were not mind control?

>>92084847
Then Captan America will have the death of Rick Jones and the destruction of Vegas on his back?

Right.

>>92084126
Huh? I thougth all of this was due to the cosmic cube, when is it stated that the original is that nazis won?

>>92084942
It is due to the cosmic cube. That anon is probably among the triggered tumblrites that doesn't actually read comics.

>>92075687
>So a big part of my pitch was 'what if we really do it this time?
Well not really because you've skipped ahead in the time line by a significant degree according to Secret Empire #1 and glossing over the progression of a Hydra take over, so for all intent and purposes it might as well be an alternative time line.

>>92084903
It's not mind control but it's not "really Steve Rogers" either unless you think the same guy with a different history is the same person.

It's just like when they were NEVER NEVER NEVER going to bring back ultimate u Parker.

>>92075907
Exactly, there no motivation behind any of this other than 'a wizard did it', kind of a pointless story all told.

>>92083218
Haven't even read Squadron Supreme, but Nextwave.

>>92084942
That was said last month, well after the cosmic cube reveal.

>>92085201
To be fair, he's dead now. Permanently since the Ultimate universe is gone. Which is sad because I miss him and his cast.

>>92085256
In the ongoing you mean? I dropped that one but i'll check it out then.

>>92076836
God I'd forgotten about that already, what was the significance of the lunch box?

>>92085102
>It's not mind control but it's not "really Steve Rogers" either unless you think the same guy with a different history is the same person.

I was thinking mind control cause that was the only way the "this really is Steve Rogers, Captain America himself" part would make sense. But if it really is a replacement Steve created by Cube, then it really isn't him.

And so I still don't believe the "absolutely 100 percent not gonna [reverse all of it]".

>>92076686
Because the shitstorm surrounding it is hilarious.

>>92085256
Maybe you should read Squadron Supreme.

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>>92085420
He's either a 3D printer or he can teleport objects. Probably the former.

>>92084942
>>92085051
A lot of readers are confused because of the lengthy "Hydra Flashback" storyline across the Steve Rogers books, which implies that the reality was changed from the real, pro-Hydra one, to the pro-Allies one.

Spencer's explanation is that the cosmic cube created this (overwritten) Hydra reality, which itself contains its own rewrite... It's worse than Zoom's time travel paradox in DC. It's no wonder that a lot of people are going to think that "Spencer made Nazi victory the original reality of Marvel universe", because that's what's written in the book!

>>92083285
Based Mark. Making Steve pure again

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>>92086168

>>92079780
I generally agree with you but there's one more aspect, and that the politics that this book is drenched in are oversaturated, boring and predictable. They're the biggest snore fest nazis concievable.

>>92086139
Yeah, it's also the interpretation this article had:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/04/19/the-original-marvel-universe-timeline-as-revealed-by-secret-empire-0-and-todays-marvel-comics-spoilers/

>>92084126
>spencer decided to take authorial control over the entire cannon of marvel comics.
Yeah, that's Ewing's shtick.

>>92075944
>Also, a b-lister dies in the first issue
Rick Jones dying would have had more impact if he'd been more relevant. Though I guess that's not a fair argument considering it could be applied to every character who's died during an event. Xavier, Hulk, Ares. Man, was the last SHOCKING character death really Cap in Civil War 1? Hell, that didn't even happen in Civil War 1.

Wow. Marvel is really bad at this.

>>92087125
hey now Ares was plenty relevant to Siege

far more so than the others who are really only in the story to be a shock death

>>92079582
>Odinson is "unworthy" while Jane battles Cancer.
He'll be bak this year during Godbutcher redux

>>92087125
Rickileaks Jones was one of the stars of Standoff.

>>92086699
>Ewing
He too will fall.
Ewingfag tears are gonna be delicious.

Hickmeme is the only writer to come out of an event without his credibility tarnished. Then he tried again, and look what happened lmao.

>>92087566
>Hickmeme is the only writer to come out of an event without his credibility tarnished
are you talking about Infinity? Because that's a good joke

>>92087594
>Infinity
>bad

Are you the 'warcrime' shitposter?

>>92087566
Which event did he come out untarnished from again? He couldn't pull off even a regular series.

>>92087468
Where he showed up with little setup, little followthrough and was outshown by Kraven the Hunter in a party hat. Plus he's got zero apparent connection between that and this event aside from his use as a human plot device.

>>92087624
it was rife with the problems of Hickman's entire Avengers run: endless escalation of threat, problems solved by Deus Ex Machina handwave, and pulled in far too many directions trying to tell too many stories at once, and introducing way too many characters that stopped being relevant almost immediately

>>92086139
>which implies that the reality was changed from the real, pro-Hydra one, to the pro-Allies one.
It was, but the pro-Hydra one only existed from Kobik's reality warping in the first place. Kobik explicitly states that she created that timeline.

>>92087650
>Where he showed up with little setup
The Whisperer had been a prevalent character through all the Cap issues leading up to it. Standoff is just where the reveal that The Whisperer was Rick Jones came in. Then after that, he was a major supporting character throughout Steve's ongoing that was the direct lead-up to Secret Empire.