What happened to the American Dream, /co/?

That's all it ever was. A dream.

It came true!
You're lookin' at it...

This movie is good.

>>92037774
Dreams end after you woke.

>>92037792
I really liked it but I can see how someone who loved the comic wouldn't. My biggest gripe was Ozymandias. He was so miscast. You could see from the fucking trailer he was a villain. I would have cast Brandon Routh.

>>92037774
WB tried to make a movie out of it

and like every other WB movie it was total shit

>>92038178
interesting opinion

>>92038158
That stupid costume pisses me off.
What was the point in making it a reference to that awful Batman movie?
What were they thinking?

Jews

>>92038158
My biggest problem was Ozymandias's plan.

>>92037774
Obama.

>>92038248
I think it was Zack's way of hinting Oz's sexuality without saying it

>>92038307
Nah, It ended long before that.
It ended when Kennedy got killed

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>>92037774
Stomach Cancer if you wheeeeeeel

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>>92038349
Because this wasn't subtle enough?

>>92037774
This movie isn't good. This movie works entirely because seeing Watchman in live action is a thrill no matter what. Plus Zach makes pretty pictures.

>>92038689
Film is a visual medium.

>>92038708
So are comics.

>>92038158
I think Watchmen the movie suffers from one big tonal problem Game of Thrones the TV show does as well -- they take characterizations from their source material and "up the badass" in places it shouldn't be. Rorschach, for example, should look like a struggling joke when the police catch him. In the movie there's slow-mo and shit to make him look cool, and the film as a whole makes him look a lot more in the right than intended by the source material. He's become like Tyler Durden -- a character that's supposed to serve as a warning but edgy tweens will look up to regardless.

>>92038860
>a character that's supposed to serve as a warning but edgy tweens will look up to regardless.
To be fair, that's what he became in the comic as well, whether Moore intended to or not.

>>92038860
This.
I feel like Snyder doesn't recognize they were supposed to be a deconstruction. He just went "so dark and mature and cool!"

>>92038708
Being a visual medium doesn't mean other elements stop mattering. But since you're memeing anyway feel free to disagree.

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>>92038917
this

>>92038941
The first hour of the movie is literally people talking. Get you head out of your ass.

It never existed and any belief in it was completely killed after the Feds offed Kennedy and Dr. King.

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>>92038689
>>92038708
This film only works for comic book and superhero nerds, sorta.
The general public's response was a big fat yawn.
It doesn't help that Ozy's "new and refurbished" plan is a bunch of schwarbage that's arguably more ridiculous than the Squid ever was.

"I know my son went out of control and axe-murdered your wife and kids, neighbor-guy, but he also axe-murdered his own mother, so we should be bonded in grief and become bestest friends because of it." That's Ozy's plan in a nutshell, to make it look like American Science God, the one they've used for 30 years to rattle the world, got out of control and fucked up NY and at least a dozen other cities, so now everyone else LOVES AMERICA.

The Squid requires suspension of disbelief, but this is a movie with a 300' Shiva rampaging around Vietnam disintegrating shit. The "Ozy is Nukes" plan requires the audience to completely shut off their brain.

>>92039091
>The first hour of the movie is literally people talking. Get you head out of your ass.
That has nothing to do with what I said.

>>92038491
Yeah Snyder and Subtley really don't go hand in hand

>>92039269
Why would they even believe that Manhattan really nuked New York?

>>92039269
*Manhattan is nukes, sorry.

Anyway fuck this movie's nonsensical mystery-plot.

>>92039269
that's a pretty shit metaphor, anon

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>>92039334
Why the fuck would they even care if they believed it? The US Gov't had been grooming him as a worldwide threat since the 50's.

Now Franken-God has broken his chains and fucked up NY on his way out the front gate?
People would feel bad for London and Paris and Moscow and Beijing, they would think that the USA got just a taste of what they had coming to them.

It would literally unite the world in destroying the U.S., before they could cook up Manhattan's replacement.

>>92039379
I'll try to use smaller words for you next time, because the metaphor is perfectly apt.

>>92038248
Ozymandias was a narcissist and based his aesthetic on ancient statues of gods, like what Schumacher did. It was a brilliant decision.

So people are complaining about the main bad guy's plot whereas in the comics it was exactly the same except for the so randumb stupid alien shit fell on manhattan out of nowhere everyone pls be nice?

>>92039334
>His last public appearance has him get told his radioactive dong gave his past and possibly present lover fatal cancer. he is incredibly distraught, but the paparazzi keep screaming at them. looking like he's having an aneurysm, he has a final freak out then vanishes
>a week later he blows up a bunch of major cities like a kid smashing his lego set

To your average onlooker, the autist king went mad with grief and stress. Its a convenient answer that invites no further questions and lets people posteur 'the paparazzi were the real monsters, its just like the elephant man' rhetoric at dinner parties

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>>92039903
An existential threat from another dimension creates an atmosphere of "we are all huddled together around this campfire, and there's horrible shit out there in the dark" that forces people to consider shit more insidious than "that guy's skin is too dark, and he doesn't follow Sky Father's tenents exactly the way I do."

Having the threat be America's Project X superguy just makes everyone despise America for creating an unstoppable psychopath.

Also when you establish that Ozy was working with Gov't scientists (including Manhattan) on a clean energy generator, it basically removes anything that Blake would conceivably investigate into. Thus you make they whole "uncovers plot, tells it to Moloch" retroactively nonsensical. Which in turn makes his murder rather stupid.

You can't just tell the whole murder-mystery intact but then completely switch the big reveal and the motivation.
But then Snyder's subsequent films clearly show that he's not a "big picture" director, but just someone who wants to get to the Big Action Moment with some biblical shit thrown in for effect.

>>92039973
Even if that's what they believe the fact of the matter is that the US government got on camera and said "The Superman Exists and He's American!"
Why wouldn't Moscow go "See? The Americans created a super weapon they couldn't even control! We need to wipe them off the face of the earth!"

The squid works because it's completely outside of the context of earth in every way and can't be pinned on anyone. Manhattan isn't that far removed from the US by association that they wouldn't catch blowback. People defend the movie's change going "the squid was random and out of nowhere" when that's literally the point of it.

Did Manhattan not figure out there was never going to be a nuclear war or did he just not care?

The only reason he thought there would be one was that he couldn't see past a certain point in the future, which he took to be nuclear annihilation, but was in fact Ozymandias sending tachyons through time to fuck with his future sight to make him think that, so Manhattan would tell everyone else it was a nuclear war.

Ozymandias idolises Alexander the Great, a mighty conqueror, and names himself Ozymandias after another great conqueror, self-proclaimed king of kings, and architect of the tower of Babel.

Face it, he set things up to make peace? He set them up to conquer the world. To be its master. He gets full rebuilding rights, he has all the technology he and Dr M were designing, and more. The line in the comic where he says to Daniel that he's not just a comic book villian who will reveal his plan is telling us the readers that he's not going to share his plan of conquest directly with us and that we must figure it out ourselves.

>>92039091
People talking for an hour doesn't make it a good movie.
Want a good example of what >>92038941 was talking about? Look at Adrian's murder attempt, in the original it's just 7 panels, it's supposed to be quick and brutally raw. Snyder in his movie gets so caught up in the spectacle of it that he tries to make it "epic" and adds slow motion and childish over the top gore, the shock of the scene is completely lost.

I will agree that the opening scene is fucking awesome, it's the main reason why I think Snyder should quit directing films and dedicate his career to music videos.

>>92040256
>and names himself Ozymandias after another great conqueror, self-proclaimed king of kings, and architect of the tower of Babel.
Ozymandias is the greek name of the Egyptian Ramsesses II, What does that have to do with the tower of babel? I can't find any link.

>>92040343

> Snyder in his movie gets so caught up in the spectacle of it that he tries to make it "epic" and adds slow motion and childish over the top gore, the shock of the scene is completely lost.

Snyder's adaptation of the Adrian/Rorschach/Nite Owl fight is one of the worst fight scenes I've ever seen in a major motion picture. It's an embarrassing combination of overwrought choreography and painful exposition, the kind that Moore went out of his way to avoid doing in the comic.

Snyder has no idea how to construct scenes that have to connect to an overall moment. He can create excellent sequences that work in a vacuum(Comedian's death, opening montage, Manhattan montage, Nite Owl 1's death) but any scene that can't just be enjoyed as its own short film or music video is totally lost on him.

He seems to think filmmaking is creating 40 music videos and gluing them together as one big film. It's like his biggest cinematic inspiration is the Moonwalker movie.

>>92040256
I think between his 'mistakes into miracles' epiphany about the comedian, and finding out about the tachyons, he realized trying to actively prevent Armageddon is a fools errand. like he says, 'nothing ever ends'

with all the time, energy, and lives Ozy expended setting up his whole scheme, he probably could have just whipped up a really really good ICBM interception system that unravels the Gordian knot at the heart of the cold war

>>92040432
>Ozymandias is the greek name of the Egyptian Ramsesses II, What does that have to do with the tower of babel? I can't find any link.
Yeah my mistake, Nimrod made the tower of Babel.

The movie is just a bronze age cape story, which, I prefer over the deconstrcto-whatever of the GN.

>>92040581
Ozy can't succeed in the long term. It's literally in his name.

We've allowed Ayn Rand cultists to throw any and everything away so they could make an extra 2% profit for a year or two.

>>92039630
Your metaphor paints Manhattan as someone who lost control and picked up a weapon, when he is the weapon. It's less "sorry my son killed your family with an axe" and more "sorry my sentient axe killed your family"

>>92040865
it's ok to prefer less complex stories to more complex stories, but don't pretend the less complex ones are better.

>>92041136
easy there autismo, his point was still valid

>>92041248
and the metaphor does nothing to make that point

I've defended the Doc Manhattan ending for years but now I really would like to see a big ass lovecraftian thing back in 2009...not just a big squid but a sky scrapper tall aberration

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>>92038248
You are a total retard that always complain about the same it had nothing to do with those movies, it took inspiration from the same fucking armors.

Am I the only one that notices the gay superior man trope? I can't think of many off the top of my head, but it feels like it comes up a lot and no one else notices. Someone I can think of is Silva from Skyfall.

It's like they are super superior that women don't interest them anymore, only men can be their equal or some shit.

>>92039269
This show how ignorant you are about American history, remember when America created saddam? Or any other action from that era? America didn't pay for shit

>>92041773

>Silva
>gay

That was just him trolling Bond.

>>92038248

The movie version of Watchmen was a satire of comic book movies. Hence Ozymandias, the commercialized hero, having a suit that resembled that from the worst, most commericalized comic book film.

>>92041883
I think you're reading a bit too much into it

>>92041750
That's wrong though. It's a direct reference to Batman and Robin. There's interviews you can dig up that say as much. The logic was that it reflected the public perception of superhero costumes in a similar way to how Ozy's costume in the comics was a reflection of costumes in the golden age.

http://ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/
>When people saw our version of the Ozymandias costume on the Internet, some were like, ”It’s like a Joel Schumacher Batman movie! The costume has nipples! That’s crazy!” And I’m like, ”Yeah, but that’s the point!”

And that interview is just one of many where the people working on the movie draw the comparison. But hey, if you keep calling people retarded your headcanon will get accepted as truth eventually.

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>>92040548
>Snyder has no idea how to construct scenes that have to connect to an overall moment. He can create excellent sequences that work in a vacuum(Comedian's death, opening montage, Manhattan montage, Nite Owl 1's death) but any scene that can't just be enjoyed as its own short film or music video is totally lost on him.
Why is everyone parroting that video ever since it went up?
Think for yourself, Jesus H Christ.

>>92042273
>I do not agree with this opinion
>everyone must be parroting a video
>no one could've possibly come up with this on their own
>not like this is a very common criticism for his entire body of work across his entire career or anything
>nope, it's all just imitating one guy

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>>92041959
No he's not.
It's always ironic to me that Snyder's detractors are so reductionist and cynical when those are the accusations they throw at him.
see
>>92042000

>>92038491
MMM!

>>92042338
Intriguing counterpoint, but i'm not convinced. That argument was very seldomly used before that video.

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>>92040256
>or did he just not care?
Not sure not care is the right phrasing, but more or less. The way he sees it humans will always be at risk from other things as much as themselves and playing police for them eternally is a pointless endeavor as another anon indicated.
It's an extreme, but logical conclusion. If they can't get their shit together they're not worth the bother, if they can then why is he needed exactly?
>>92041773
I gathered it just stemmed from one of his idols, Alexander, being potentially sexually open. Much like Alexander however there's no direct evidence, in the comic anyway, that Adrian really is of that inclination. In fact you could take away that his questionable sexuality and lack of concern about the matter can just as well have been another contrast to Walter who likely considered himself ultrahetro and made it a point to note he intended to investigate if Veidt was gay.
>>92041813
Not that anon, but the thing you have to realize is we're in a perpetual cold warfare climate where no country with the right resources will ever overtly be accused or pay for anything anymore. Hell even when things leak or the news insists war is imminent little happens because everyone knows what happens if something happens. So instead any slips or errors tarnishes careers not countries.

America in this case pays in a slow gradual way in the eyes of the rest of the world on the political platform. No one is going to wage direct war with them as that would only excuse retaliation and make an example of the assailant. Everyone's wear steel toed boots and walking on eggshells.

Moore even wrote on this atmosphere in Brought to Light showing America is fully aware of the wolves at their door now they've fed earlier.

>>92042400
I don't even know what video you're talking about

>>92042422
ok bud

>>92042448
sorry I don't watch every video RLM or whoever puts out