How do we fix this fuck up?

You don't change anything. You sit back, relax, and watch Marvel's tailspin untl it hits the ground.

Pin it on carol, the only surviving blonde haired blue eyed male in the 616 universe.

>>92023541
Fpbp

>>92023532
You cant.

We're watching another Hank Pym slap, another Doctor Light rape.

This is a permanent stain on Captain America. And Thor, now, because Mjolnir is fine with Nazis.

>>92023532

You wait a few months for the story to run its course, since it's reaching its climax right this moment. Once it's done with, something approaching the status quo will be reestablished and the story will be complete.

What even needs to be fixed? These things come and go, man.

>>92023569
>Mjolnir is fine with Nazis.
Okay I've just been skimming marvel since Dec, when did this happen?

>>92023581

Not him, but the way I'm seeing it is

>Cap has always been Hydra
>Cap has wielded Mjolnir in the past
>Therefore Mjolnir thinks Hydra is great

>>92023532
Have it be either the "jerkass stand-in Captain America", or a Cap from the collapsing multiverse story. After all, it's not like anyone does or can manage to keep track of where Cap is at any time. It'd be easy for an alternate Cap to impersonate Cap while Cap is off doing Cap stuff. There could have been two Caps for months and nobody found out. And if someone, like say Jarvis the butler found out, nobody even questioned this. Just like Wolverine.
Then we get Cap vs Cap vs Cap streetfight each in a different version of the costume.

>>92023581
Free Comic Book Day issue.

Cap picks up the hammer, despite being a nazi.

And yes, he's a nazi, he has fucking concentration camps.

>>92023569
>>92023581
>magic nordic hammer
>allowing germanic-supremists to use it

to mortals, this is a vexing quandry

>>92023605
No it happened recently in a Secret Empire issue.

>>92023605
Oh shit, so it really was a history changing plot? Was still under the impression that it was just cosmic brainwashing.

>>92023622

Well then, there you have it.

I wonder if Hitler could have wielded Mjolnir

Just retcon this shit out. No special events, no attempts to make the retcon be explained in-universe, just straight up scrap this plotline and continue on as if it never happened.

>>92023631
You cant undo the fact it happened.

Cap is forever stained, just like Spider-Man.

>>92023532
The full Domitian/Commodus route. Damnatio Memoriae. No magic retcon in-universe, the entire thing just never happened.

Basically wipe it out and start again.

>>92023642
>just like Spider-Man.
Which time, there's so many.

Didn't they recently make magneto a hydra agent as well?
Like, isn't a key part of magnetos character that he is an auchwitz survivor?

>>92023686
The answer to your question USED to be that HYDRA was never associated with the Nazis and is more a Cold War organization than anything else.

Unfortunately, Marvel seems to have gone out of its way to make comics HYDRA a Nazi organization, in contradiction to most of its own history. Not to mention most normies know HYDRA from the movies, where it is explicitly a Nazi offshoot.

Marvel has made this all look fucking horrible in the name of movie synergy.

>>92023569
>another Hank Pym slap
Has Marvel not learnt their lesson?

>>92023626
It is, but the internet outrage machine has it now so no casual will ever know that they've done dozens of brainwashed Cap stories before.
The public consciousness of Steve will only now reflect the one panel that's been turned into a meme for stupid people.
In the past comic characters have been radically changed forever because a perception takes root in the fan's eyes that can't be erased.
And it might be happening again.

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>>92023718
>Marvel
>Learning their lesson
>Improving
>Treating their characters with respect
>Ever not fucking up

>>92023718
>Has Marvel not learnt their lesson?
Just like Hank's wife

>>92023642
>Cap is forever stained

How so? This is something that was done to him with the cosmic cube. He's as much a victim here as anyone else. Nothing about this plot would be happening if he hadn't had literally the entirety of his life story stolen from him and replaced with something else. How does any of this reflect upon the character we actually know and love? Once the effects of the cosmic cube are inevitably undone, how does any of this stain the guy he returns to being?

>>92023737
No, actually. Secret Empire confirmed that the Allies originally rewrote reality into the 616 we knew, and the cosmic cube just snapped back Cap to before the rewrite.

Its supposed to be a clever metaphorical version of him being trapped in ice.

>>92023749
Think broader.

Think the public eye.

Part of Captain Americas history, no matter what you do, part of the history of the fictional superhero Steve Rogers created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, leader of the Avengers, is that he was in fact always a secret Nazi who condoned the Holocaust and eventually operated his own concentration camps.

Even if you retcon that, even if you somehow undo it in the continuity of the books, that something that outside of the story itself will forever taint Captain Americas real world legacy. Its part of his mythology now.

>>92023686
>Didn't they recently make magneto a hydra agent as well?
>Like, isn't a key part of magnetos character that he is an auchwitz survivor?

He's going to appear on a single cover of a single issue of a story in which there are nazis, and people have - as is the internet's habit - jumped to the worst and most-inflammatory possible conclusion. Never mind that this same set of covers also include the Kingpin who we know from solicitations will be fighting against Hydra. The possibility that Magneto's role in the story is that he's fighting nazis is something people cannot contemplate because to do so would deny them something to complain about.

People are so stupid. I hate them all so much.

>>92023569
>We're watching another Hank Pym slap
Look at it this way, maybe 30+ years later the writer will publicly state that the frame was drawn far more aggressively than intended, just like they recently did with the Pym slap scene last year, when Marvel was trying to kill the meme to attract more women.

>>92023783
Those covers were explicitly referred to as "Hydras Secret Weapons", IE referring to their secret supervillain agents. So, he's Hydra.

>>92023642
I disagree. You're right that people will never forget about this, but saying "sorry" and throwing out this garbage with no story acknowledgement will make it a memory about this one time some retard writer tried to ruin Cap and was made fun of for it.

>>92023792
You and i both know thats not going to happen because Sam Wilson is the one true diverse representation of core American values he's black he's black he's black he's black WHY DONT YOU BUY HIM HE'S BLACK YOU RACIST MOTHERFUCKER.

Who's going to be the fall guy for all this if it stays as unpopular as it's been so far? It's gotta be Spencer, right?

>>92023813
Well Spencer is solely responsible for it so yeah.

He's a huge asshole too so he's fucked since he burnt all his bridges.

>>92023532
Stop buying it. Money talks.

>>92023753

I don't buy that at all. I'm sure that the scenes which Steve remembers of the allies having lost the war and then rewriting reality into the 616 we know are THEMSELVES a part of the rewritten past, put there to convince Steve of the rightness and reality of this pro-Hydra narrative he's had written into his backstory.

I mean, come the fuck on. WE KNOW THAT ALL THIS HYDRA STUFF IS COSMIC CUBE RETCON STUFF. This isn't even ambiguous within the context of the story. We have seen the characters responsible for rewriting his past discussing having done so. Anything we see in his flashbacks which don't jibe with 616 history as we know it are obviously reality-rewrites to his past.

Hands up, everyone in this thread who has actually been reading the story.

>>92023829
But anon, nobody buys Marvels comics.

Their sales are dogshit, they have to pull incredibly harmful practices on retailers to fake out their figures.Like seriously, they're hemorrhaging money.

>>92023780
>is that he was in fact always a secret Nazi who condoned the Holocaust and eventually operated his own concentration camps.

But that's not true. We've seen the characters responsible for using the powers of the cosmic cube to re-write his past discussing having done so. We know that within the story itself that none of this is true. Anyone who's reading the story or are familiar enough with its events to have any emotional investment in it are aware of this fact.

>>92023789

Again, Kingpin is one of the characters on those covers and we know from solicitations of these issues that he's fighting Hydra in this story, so obviously that's not true in the case of 100% of these characters. I'm betting the same will be true of Magneto as Fisk.

>>92023826
>Well Spencer is solely responsible for it so yeah.

Really? I know he's the writer, but I refuse to believe this didn't all start in editorial. It's such a current Marvel move to write a story where Captain America becomes a Nazi.

>>92023532
-Shot to the head and reset universe thing.

-It's all a dream
-mind control dream

Honestly writing comics is pretty easy if you stick to the basics.

>>92023708
not really a marvel fan so thanks for the info!
it reminds me of how disney doubled down on the nazi imagery for the first order in star wars, yet marketed the "strong woman that little girls can look up to" chrome stormtrooper, and continued to sell stormtrooper costumes to little kids at disneyland.

>>92023605
Er, I don't think that's it. It's more like:
>Cap was Nazi
>USA used comic cube to win WWII
>cap thinks he's pro America
>uses Mjolnir
>later becomes nazi again

So this would still make Mjolnir okay.

>>92023861

Or even spend an entire year making it perfectly, inescapably clear that it was always the result of a reality rewrite by means of the cosmic cube and not representative of who and what he really is. You could totally do that. In fact, Marvel already has!

>>92023753
I still can't believe they're going with the idea that the Allies reducing cities in Germany and Japan to burning fat and ash respectively, and letting the Holocaust happen, is what one their would consider a win. It's reads like something written on a conspiracies subreddit.

>>92023880
>USA used comic cube to win WWII

But we know that this is a false memory created via the cosmic cube, just like all of the memories that Steve has of his rewritten past and not a real event whatsoever. Anybody who's been reading the story as it's been unfolding can't fail to grasp that.

>>92023917
I'm not saying that's wrong. I was saying how Mjolnir being used would still make since taking into account Steve's head space. You literally would have to be retarded to think Marvel is saying their universe was originally controlled by Nazis.

However that still doesn't explain what Eliza's deal is.

>>92023900

It's a good thing that you can't believe it because it's not true. It's been made perfectly clear within the story itself that this is all a result of the cosmic cube being used to rewrite Steve's memories to fit a pro-Hydra narrative and motivate him to do things he would never otherwise do.

I'm glad you can't believe it or else you'd have to be quite the fool!

>>92023532
>How do we fix this fuck up?

gee, i dunno, it's almost like we'd need some sort of magical being or device, a cube perhaps, with a cosmic level of power that can rewrite reality

you know, like the one they used to rewrite cap's history in the first place

you know, the same one bucky has been babysitting in Thunderbolts for a literal year

maybe we could use that

>>92023569
Remember when Superior Spider-man was so negatively received that even Stan fucking Lee ripped into it?

If Spider-man can bounce back from that shit, steve rogers can bounce back from a few fake memories.

>>92023968
>However that still doesn't explain what Eliza's deal is.

I'm pretty curious about that myself! If I had to guess, I'd say that the childlike intellect of the cosmic cube was not particularly precise in its rewriting of Steve's past and accidentally or sloppily let some of the stuff she created just for his personal narrative kind of get away from her and take on lives of their own.

>>92023973

The cosmic cube, you say? That's an intriguing possibility. I'm surprised nobody has brought that idea up so far. What do you say, OP? What do you think of that idea?

>>92023973
...they can't because
1.) Bucky is currently "dead"
2.) The cube is broken
3.) I think only Bucky knows what happened to Steve so I doubt anyone is going to look deeper than face value a this. Prepare for 2 years of Cap. America being a symbol of hate.

>>92023987
>>>92023569
>Remember when Superior Spider-man was so negatively received that even Stan fucking Lee ripped into it?
...no? Wtf are you talking about. Superior did really well for Marvel.

>>92023569
>Mjolnir is fine with Nazis
Why wouldn't it be? I mean take out the jew/mutant/inhuman hating supremacy someone like Red Skull with dedication like his should be perfectly fine lifting it. Things like good, evil, honor, duty, and nobility are all subjective, especially if you're using a weapon forged for gods, beings who consider humans little more than hairless apes fucking in the mud.

So if Cap truly believes what he's doing is right, then who's to say that that shouldn't be enough for Mjolnir to lend him its strength.

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>>92024019
Oh I guess I imagined this then.

>>92023569
>because Mjolnir is fine with Nazis

To be perfectly honest, it probably would be. As long as the Nazi in question was motivated by the belief that they were doing something altruistic rather than a motive like power or money.

>>92023988
>Eliza Sinclair is really a projection of the cube
>Has a powerful and unbreakable adoration for Steve
>Borders on being more than just respect
oh fuck

Hydra literally dindu nuffin

>>92024059
>Hitler would be able to wield Mjolnir
Punished heroes are usually the most worthy ones.

>>92023532
That's not 616 Cap. That's Ultimate Cap. Grade A asshole.

>>92024050
>clearly a joke/bant between people in the industry
>s-see! Stan Lee hated it
Stan Lee doesn't even give a shit about what people do to shit characters anymore. He can't even read them.

Also, this doesn't even address what I was talking about. Show me actual credible reviews that trashed Superior spider man. Maybe throw in a few sales numbers. But don't give me this horseshit of a tweet.

>>92023532
>be my friend
>total wehraboo
>doesn't read comics, but goes to see the Captain America movie
>"Gosh anon they're really squandering Steve Rogers, he would look soooooo hot in a Hydra uniform"
>"but implying that would ever happen!"
>six years later, show her this

Like a kid on Christmas morning, I tell ya.

>>92024079
He probably could. I don't see any reason why a holy Norse weapon would judge him.

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>>92023874

>disney is secretly turning little girls into nazis

>>92024110
It was Walt's plan all along!

>truly, a visionary

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>>92023532

Wait for Secret Empire to end and Cap is reverted back to normal and everyone forgets this all happened. Just like every event. Just like every "good guy becomes evil" story.

Why are people surprised by all of this?

>>92024089
It was in response to ASM 699... which was pretty negatively received? I mean, it's cool if you didn't actually read the book or weren't around to see people whine about it, but don't try to revisionist history away the fact that it's when a lot of people argued the merits of hate sales.

Superior's sales doesn't change the fact that you're getting into histrionics about how a character is FOREVER tainted when no one else actually gives a shit in the grand scheme of things. Tony bounced back (twice). Peter bounced back. Even Pym is positively considered in the casual mindspace to all 5 people who remember him from ant-man.

>>92023532
Doombot.
Or, wait, no! One of Arnim Zola's bioplastiscoids! They can shape change into anyone right down to the molecular level, AND Zola is a Cap villain who works with Red Skull and has a vested interest in ruining his image!

>>92023532
There's literally nothing wrong with it

>>92024050

>Keep up the amazingly spectacular work you always do!

Man, Stan sure did lay into Slott. Whew! Blistering criticism there!

>>92023999
>1.) Bucky is currently "dead"
The fact that you put that in quotation marks shows that even you don't buy that it'll last long.

>2.) The cube is broken
Yeah, for how long? Especially since Hydra is actively looking for the fragments.

>3.) I think only Bucky knows what happened to Steve so I doubt anyone is going to look deeper than face value a this.
I guarantee that you're wrong

>Prepare for 2 years of Cap. America being a symbol of hate.
We already know he'll be back to normal by the end of Secret Empire.

>>92023532
Variant covers.

>>92024059

I think that's the key point. Steve has an entirely mistaken belief that Hydra are the good guys and that if he can 'restore' the world to 'what it's supposed to be' then that's what's for the best for the world. His motives are pure and good, he's just terribly, terribly misinformed and thus pursuing those goals to ends which will not benefit mankind the way he thinks they will.

Mjolnir is making a judgment of his character, not of the accuracy of the information he has access to.

>>92023780
Funny thing; nobody fucking cares about comics except people like us.
You know I asked nine separate people a week ago on a dare what Cap's real name was, nine of whom I saw ALL of his movies with, and eight of them got it wrong?

You sorely underestmate how little people truly give a shit about your hobby guy, and how few people even see the comics as relevant anymore.

>>92024142
Clearly you are just talking out of your ass. Cool, you huge out of 4chan when that issue came out. Yeah, people were bummed their character died in that issue, but no one was calling the writing shit.

You keep moving the goal post two.
>you say superior was bad
>I ask for proof because everywhere else says other wise
>you come at me with a Stan Lee tweet
>has nothing to do with anything
>say well...spiderman 699 got people mad
>sold well and reviewed fine

Again, bring some fucking proof or stop talking out of your ass.

>>92024131

Not so much surprised as angry and annoyed, would be my guess. Kinda how people are still annoyed about House of M because it was fucking dumb.

Or I guess *some* people are surprised, mostly the newbies, because, well, honestly, Secret Wars and Secret Empire were kind of retarded on Marvel's part, to be frank - they spent a lot of time trying to attract casuals with shit like Ms Marvel and Gwen and stuff, and then by the time the whole thing starts working, they start hitting with events. Except casuals have no real frame of reference for the way events work in comics. They're used to stories where what happens actually happens. So the new casuals are annoyed and loudly complaining and "what the fuck"-ing, and honestly, I can't help but feel they have a point, because Marvel sold them on semi-standalone series with crossovers and instead they got, well, the pile of shit that is Secret Empire.

*I'm* experienced enough to just stop buying them until the Secret Empire crap ends, but most people who are new to these stories are not really used to having this kind of retardation pulled on them.

Okay morons, listen up:
The cosmic cubes contain the power to alter reality itself.
Kobik has more power than a Marvel editorial department.

And in the past the cubes have been shown as able to effect the allegiance of Thor (guyThor, for all you misogynists) so it's not as if magical and mythical beings are immune to being altered by this crap.
Claiming that Cap holding Mjolnir in some out-of-context pages proves some sort of Nazi worthiness in this alt-reality story is as idiotic as wanting Nazis to be proven worthy so badly in the first place.
And what the fuck is the source of this alt-history lesson about 616's WW2 win? Steve's memories? Those have already been altered. The cube? That's the thing that alters what is Steve's history. This headcanon about 616 suddenly being somehow always true Nazi as opposed to reality-based isn't going to sell. Literally, Marvel's not going to shoot their sales department in the foot by changing that into the canon.
And do I really need to explain this yet again:
Comic companies are not in the business of burning their intellectual property rights.
They have a character that's IN REAL LIFE historically recognized for his connection to WW2, you can't make that shit up. Cap's in the Smithsonian. There's a value to that history that is it's own worth, and that's far more important than monthly sales.
So we will be getting classic Captain America back, all of /pol/'s Nazi-themed jerk-off sessions combined won't change that.

>>92024142
Good thing we live in a world where people don't take advantage of social media to campaign for controversy and thus artificially maintain a constant level of outrage.

>>92023899
And then you could say "nerp, the Beyonder/Cosmic Cube/Fucknugget the Cosmic Buttslut" did it one page later and it's instantly true.

I've genuinely taken shits with more lasting consequences then modern comics storylines. Not even employing hyperbole.

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>>92024195
Nah. I think I'm right.

>>92024050
God I love Stan, the money-grubbing undying bastard he is.

>>92024131
Comics fans are fucking retards, that's why.
I mean seriously; I'm ashamed to be one these days because of how dumb we are on average. These writers push people's buttons just to piss them off and they react the same way EVERY FUCKING TIME.

>>92024232
It hurts, doesn't it?

>>92024276
A little bit, to watch such a steep decline.
I guess as the industry itself suffers so much from such terrible decisions it was only a matter of time before fans did too.

Oh well.
It's easy enough to call myself something other then a comic book fan I guess, especially since I have plenty of other hobbies. I'll just instead say that I read comics.

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As we all know, people who turn evil through outside influences will forever remain evil. It's not like Cap is going to revert overnight or anything once a writer decides he wants to do way with some bullcrap an event heaped on the character he's writing. No sir. Cap is forever ruined.

>>92023581
Hydra isn't Nazi you fucking casual.

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>All these disgusting casuals ITT hating on Based Hydra Cap.

I want him to win and gas you all.

>>92023670
Peter selling his and Mary Janes souls to Mephisto for Aunt Mays life.

>>92026085
Oh god, that is the perfect picture for an star wars photoshop, he couldn't look anymore like an imperial than he does in that shot.

MCU synergy

>>92023532

So, OP. Have the various replies to your post satisfied you? Do you feel as though your question has been addressed in a manner which satisfies your curiosity?

>>92023532
>How do we fix this fuck up?
You don't have to do anything because Marvel will inevitably go back to its status quo.

>>92023569
I honestly think you are right.

>>92024178
Why are you here?

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>>92023532
With more.

>>92024092
Is she black? I know a ton of black chicks who have a Nazi fetish. I'm not sure how I know this about them.

>>92023532
>>>/trash/

Just let the comic industry die and the movie industry to take the mantle over because let's face it, no one cares about Cap unless Chris Evans (or Sebastian Stan/Anthony Mackie) are playing him.

>>92023532
What's there to fix? A glorious White Man fixes everything wrong with Hydra, kills Red Skull and executes all dem Muggas and Niggers.

SJWs getting triggered hard by this is only a bonus. Shame it will end soon...

>>92028511
What? This isn't a think...is it?

>>92029312
>muggas and niggers

You know not hating people based on their demographic doesn't make you an sjw, right? It just makes you a decent human being.

>>92023532
mind control or clone? pretty easy

>>92029964
THANKS, BOUT TIME SOMEONE SAID IT ON HERE

>>92023532
Only option, another action of the cosmic cube.

Imagine how much this would break a man when he finally goes back to normal.

>>92023569
Nazis reeeeeeeeeeeeee! Fuck Nazis! How can Marvel worship the ideology that killed more people than any other ideology ever? Ike Perlmutter is clearly working for Putin.

No racism no kkk no fascist USA!

>>92029923
Plenty of people have fucked up fetishes that they wouldn't like to happen to them or condone irl. Also, lots of people are just plain old self hating.

>>92023627
Of course, the guy did nothing wrong.

>>92023740
maximus kektagon

>>92023718
Do you remember how Marvel's stance on OMD is "don't mention it, pretend it never happened but keep Peter and MJ separated anyway?" And yet that didn't work because people will inevitably reference it anyway (see Remender's What if Venom Possessed Deadpool, Joe Kelly's Spider-Man/Deadpool)

A similar thing happened with Pym. Shooter made some bad decisions, other writers had to fix that but also acknowledged it still happened, all the while Wizard was constantly making jokes about it and Mark Millar thought it was funny to make Pym a full-on wifebeater in Ultimates and led to Austen thinking that was also the case in 616, and Paul Jenkins referenced it in WWH Frontline, etc etc.

>magic
>time travel
>more cosmic cube shit
The best thing that could come out of this is cap having a breakdown after it's all magically fixed and he still remembers how he went full nazism.

The irony is that the people who keep calling HydraCap's story a story of a Nazi are exactly as wrong as people who keep calling Dear White People a preachy liberal propaganda. Both groups haven't bothered to read/watch either and instead decided to blindly shit all over them basing their hate on surface-level knowledge of the subject.
Now imagine if Nick Spencer twitted that.

>>92023899
Which is honestly the most bullshit part of this entire storyline because it's all about having your cake and eating it too.

Instead of literally going whole hog with the concept of "Cap was literally a Nazi this whole time and we having tons of in-universe justifications to make that part of his character until the next real universal shake up", they instead of the route of "We'll just have a magic object make his backstory change for drama-bucks for a year and a half, then have other one of those magic objects change it back so there's be no lasting consequences to this arc".

As much as I dislike the concept of NaziCap, it WOULD be a bold step in storytelling for Marvel, because it could be a modern critique of Cap's whole identity (which WAS being pure WWII propaganda) and asking the very uncomfortable question of what happens if a character with the exact same wholehearted beliefs and morals that we love Cap for was on the other side of the war.

>>92023532
it was all a dream.

Cap used to read Word Up magazine

>>92024195
No shit; but we're going to have to deal with the ramifications of this like we had to with U.S. Agent.

Think about how many people literally thought of Cap as "Turbo Conservative Super Patriot who loves war and will literally do whatever the government tells him to do because he thinks it's infallible" until the MCU came out?

What we're going to get is the misinterpretation of outsiders thinking of Cap as "Super Solider who would have totally been a Nazi if given the chance because he only has loyalty to an ideal"

>>92031459
That would require a decent writer to tackle.

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>>92031571
>Hydra has been a Nazi metaphor for decades now
>Marvel spent millions turning them into substitute Nazis for the Cap movies since swastikas would have made international distribution harder
>"Hydra = Nazis" has been Marvel canon since at least the 70's

>But internationally respected writing genius Nick Spencer says they aren't, so CASE CLOSED.

>>92023532


AGAIN

i still believe that this marvel universe ATM is Ultimate due to the cosmic cube Shenannigans

And that This cap is Ultimate Reborn, instead of the Original 616, which is probably lost in some Earth X universe post Battleworld

>>92023532

This just another Superior Spiderman/Ironman thing. Just wait until things go back to normal.

>>92032008
Spencer is following up on Hickman's ideas.
And "Hydra ≠ Nazis" is the canon as of right now, so get with the times, gramps.

>>92023578
This guy gets it.

>>92032067
That would be a really amazing twist.
HydraCap is about to win when 616 Cap shows up and says that Reed told him that there had been a mix-up that he needed to fix.

>>92032295

Ultimate cap was always a little nazi by his own means, even "616 steve's" relationship with EVERYONE after he "suddenly came back to normal" in Secret Wars was different

he hated miles, he hated heroine heroes in general, he hated Mutants, he hated nick fury and the list goes on.

since he came back to normal on Secret Wars, he started to act more and more like Ultimate Cap, his attitude, his decisions and even his stature.

>>92023532
Hydra cap is great though.

There's nothing to fix.

>>92032604
Rage of ultron has him acting differently in the past. Also seen ultimate leveld of strength displayed.

Sometimes I wonder if legacy is prime earth vs retro rebooted Earth, that contains most of the real characters but debooted histories.

IronMan post sw is nice and witty like ultimate tony. Thor is down to earth like ultimate thor.

>>92034703
>>92032295
>>92032067


some people is coming up with this theory too

and it would be interesting, Reed is the one who is rebuilding 616, and the Earth where marvel sits in right now is a mix between miles last wish and molecular man's power + Black Panther using the Infinity Gauntlet, an Rebuilt Ultimate Earth using 616 as a template

even Wakanda post SW is far more advanced than 616 was, which was made by T'chala's wish of a supreme country due to the Gauntlet's power.

>>92032604
I was thinking that Ultimate Cap's aspects started seeping into 616 Cap even before Secret Wars, like for instance him being okay with Avengers torturing civilians or getting into a fight with Iron Man while the world was ending.

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Best run in along time fuck you all

>>92031401
>Fuck Nazis! How can Marvel worship the ideology that killed more people than any other ideology ever?

Communism?

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>>92032008

>>92034948
Marvel time was broken pre sw. It's possible other realties steeped in.

Hickman anyway prefers ultimate versions of the avengers trinity.

Bendis Jessica Jones is exploring that thevworld is a patchwork one but a unified timeline unlike battleworld.

>>92034948

this is what everyone is stating

This is not Marvel 616, 616 is maybe in ustody with Reed and Sue, This Marvel Universe is Ultimare rebuilt with 616 and other realities as template

This is why some Ultimate characters are showing up, and WHY most characters on Marvel Universe are Acting like their Ultimate versions

Legacy will be The Divergence of Secret Wars, with 616 finally coming back to the fold

>>92026114
But shes a redhead

>>92035205
>>92035341

Oh and another thing, The War Thor that will show up with the Ultimate Hammer, May be Ultimate Thor Reclaiming his own Hammer back.

>>92035341
I guess.

Still certain characters on prime earth are 616 versions. Well just the battleship survivors and Doom.

I guess regular retro marvel could have some omitted but most went there. Or a few created duplicates, like nurse jane thor.

Could explain Old man Logan and Wolverine coming back.

Reed just took 616 and debooted it back to 1978 era. But modern times.

>>92028511
Nah, she's actually ethnically German but she's from Poland.

Is that really a thing in the US? Sounds kinda messed up.

>>92035624
War Thors either Odin or ultimate odin. He certainly has only one eye.

It's more likely odinson is Ultimate Thor but his history matching 616. I noticed the gif states it's odison for helment Thor post fall.

MIght even even have another Thor with Kirby style clothes on the retro earth.

They didn't put the retro Carol on Joes earth and used jms thor suit for Odin for both Gif and spread. The spread was just a scatting of both possible universes.

>>92027934
Fund it.

>>92026021
Lol, get out of here Hickman

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u all the this is the ultimate universe but you guys don't remember that the maker has the ultimate universe

>>92036346
wat

>>92035341
I agree but at the same time, how many writers have actually given a shit to play with this new marvel universe? Most writers are just doing the same shit they were before Secret Wars. Many used it as an excuse to shoehorn in characters from the Ultimate universe they liked without any explanation on how they exist. We can all listen to what Hickman did, but Marvel editorial clearly doesn't give a shit. Some comics still call this 616.

>>92036346
Thats the merge of the multiverse sans the orimary earths. It's a red herring for a ultimate universe. He is trying to merge the multiverse membrane into one.

Maker decreeded the old ultimate universe isn't in the former place it was.

>>92036435
thats only your theory my dear batowl

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>>92036499
Nah it's facts.

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>>92036576
I stand corrected I'll let myself out

>>92023532
Make him a transwoman.
Marvel pls hire.

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>>92023532
Marvel Rebirth
Marvel characters find out that someone is fucking up the universe and team up against him. Someone, who has the capability to alter the comic universe; a bald god that can watches them form an astral plane.

>>92023532
>fuckup
>the only person that can murder the legacy chracters and bring order to marvel