What can we do to make the F4 great again?

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>>91981299
>The writer should do some damn research instead of just bullshitting
Just lost the writer
>Make the aliens creepier, and otherwordly.
Just lost the artist
>I'd change the cast...Johnny offers nothing, and Sue works only as the mother of the group.
Just lost 2/4ths of the readers
>I'd replace Johnny with Victor (no powers*) and Ben with Pym. That'd be a truly kick-ass Science Team.
Just got me on board. I'm all ears.

>>91981299
>>Johnny offers nothing, and Sue works only as the mother of the group. I could work with a revamped Sue ala Ultimate, but I'd replace Johnny with Victor (no powers*) and Ben with Pym. That'd be a truly kick-ass Science Team.
You had me until this bullshit.
Fantastic Four fans are mad that the team is getting shafted and undermined in comics. Your solution is to replace half of them.
I'm afraid you missed the point of the F4, too. It's supposed to be a family first, you know that right?

give them their own continuity full of all things Weird, grand and fantastic, make an All Star F4.

Make them Marvel's premier villain group.

The characters' personalities could use some tweaking. Mainly Johnny.

Being just the "young party dude" might have been enough in the 60's, but it's been done so many times, it's become boring. Even TMNT's Michelangelo, who's basically the same character, sans the hot head, is more relevant nowadays because of how much more has been added to his existing personality.

Maybe add a bit of DNA from hot blooded anime protags.

>>91981485
>It's supposed to be a family first
The family that stays together, sinks together.
I think OP's onto something and you're letting your rigid perspective cloud your vision, the family can still exist in the Baxter building or in general, he's just suggesting that the FF itself act as a science team, possibly with a rotating roster.

I think it's genius really, the whole family adventurer angle was cute in the innocent years but as the years have gone on the question of how much danger Reed exposes his family to gets more and more vividly drawn. It's done no favors to either avoid stories that put them too much at risk given the implications of regularly diving head first into such things or diving head first into them and just shrugging off the moral quandaries that come with it.

Professionals who want or have to be involved in the events makes more sense. It's like a more public, stable form of the Illuminati.

>>91981299
Get Marvel to stop treating them like cancer.

Ewing

>>91981395
>Just lost the writer

Hickman, Morrison, Ellis, all of them do their research. Or at least are good enough at bullshitting that it looks like it.

>Just lost the artist

Eh, I don't think so. They should be used to drawing more abstract stuff by now. I'm not talking about the average aliens, you can make most of them humanoid, but someone like Annihilus should be more than a bug.

>Just lost 2/4ths of the readers

Come on, anon. You're telling me there are people out there who like Johnny? Nobody gives a fuck about him. He's a blank slate. Ben, yeah, people like him, but eh, let's just say he's the pilot, gets turned into the rock-golem and then joins SHIELD or something. I don't really care.

>Just got me on board. I'm all ears.

Get ready bucko.

>Okay, remember how in the REBORN U there were the Knights of the Atomic Table? Tony, Banner, Reed, Victor, Rebel and I think Pym. Banner and Tony work better as solo acts, and Rebel was an OC, so I'll just grab Reed, Pym and Victor, plus Sue.

>They'd all get together, pull their resources and expertise, and create a tech start-up as soon as they were at of University (going for a more realistic approach here). All of them being masters at different fields means the company produces crazy stuff, skyrockets and they become billionaires.

>So Reed uses some NASA contacts and manages to put all 4 of them on a rocket to explore some science shit. The storm hits, but only Reed and Sue are affected, since Pym was at the deck bellow working on something, and Doom was doing his shady stuff.

>Fast-Forward a bit, and they decide to stick together and explore the Universe, yadda, yadda yadda, you get the gist. Gotta get that premise going.

>Now, the key is, they'd all be into it for different reasons:

[cont]

>>91981299
>hard sci-fi
Stopped reading there.
You don't do hard scifi with a dude that can stretch, an invisible chick, a flame kid and a rock guy, who got that way from "cosmic rays". You don't fucking try to go realistic/grounded with that fucking premise.

Fuck your stupid idea OP.

>>91981485

[cont]

>Reed is in it purely to gain knowledge. But as time goes on and he sees the ugliness of the Universe, he starts turning into his "make the perfect Universe" persona.

>Sue wants to gain enough knowledge to bring it back home and help people. The only one who's truly an altruist.

>Pym, who's the classic bullied nerd, wants to just have some adventures, and as time goes on becomes more arrogant, cocky, violent and hostile against the aliens, justifying it all under "gotta protect my Earth".

>And 'cause Doom gotta Doom, he just wants to gain enough power to free his mother from Hell. He plans on gaining both scientific and occult knowledge, because he figures alien magics might be more powerful. Still the same character, really, it's just that he's hiding amongst the unsuspecting "sheep". He still wants to rule the world and everything, and whie he's off "exploring", he's also playing political games through his pawns.

Really, it'd be a hard sci-fi book, but each character would have different segments, with Doom's being the more abstract and magical.

>>91981299
You're throwing out everything that makes them the Fantastic Four. But the fact you're legitimately suggesting getting rid of Ben implies you were never an FF fan in the first place.

>>91981591
>Michelangelo, who's basically the same character, sans the hot head, is more relevant nowadays because of how much more has been added to his existing personality.
>Maybe add a bit of DNA from hot blooded anime protags.
Do you think that Johnny hasn't grown at all as a character or become more mature? He has.

>>91981622
>he's just suggesting that the FF itself act as a science team
It's always been a science team, but the family aspect comes first. And you don't even have to have the kids or anything be "endangered". Just the core F4 go on some adventures. Part of the reason Marvel's First Family have become so undermined lately is because people keep pointlessly changing shit about them until they are barely recognizable. And I mean, OP's idea is okay for an AU story but I would never want Johnny or Sue to just be dropped like they don't matter, because they very much do.

>>91981622
The fuck is the point, just make an OC science team.

>>91981771
Also Ben is quite literally the core of the team, the most important member, and probably the most popular. Dropping him is the worst idea.

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- Deage Sue
- Make her Reed's GF not wife
- Get her into a sexy costume

Problem solved all around.

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Let Robinson continue his run,he had a good understanding of the characters and the book sold fine.If you wanna make them great explore the end of secret wars and what reed has been up to.We already have the drama aspect with Ben and Johnny getting left behind,cosmic hijinks with a whole multiverse to play with

>>91981543

That's what I'm saying anon.

>>91981622

Family-First my ass. Family-First is the reason the title never reached the levels of Sandman, Transmetropolitan and Hellboy. Whereas each one of them became the book in their genre, F4 was always about cunt Reed, housewife Sue, sulky Thing and "nobody gives a shit about you" Johnny. There's a reason Doctor Doom is a more developed character than all of them.

So yeah, fuck your "muh family" excuse. It was created as a sci-fi book and that's what it should be.

>>91981740

Might as well stop making sci-fi books then. Just because I wanna some some things based on real-world theories doesn't mean it has to be completely realistic. Otherwise, might as well turn all books into entry-level physics textbooks, and feature 50 year old professors solve real-world equations.

Making something more "fantastic" and not just bullshitting with "5x^(8*67%)sqrt(98&--0) is the equation for walking through walls" plots, doesn't mean the book will be ruined.

>>91981768

They were created as a sci-fi book. The "muh family" thing came later, and it's the reason ever since Byrne, apart from Hickman, all runs have been shit. Writers just half-ass the same plots, add some family drama and the fags go "ah, muh family struggles". The book's called Fantastic 4. I wanna see some fantastic shit. Not Sue wanting Namor's dick 'cause Reed'd prefer sciencing.

>>91981777

An OC science team would be just that though, a science team of no importance. The F4 redefined sci-fi, and that's the book's role.

>>91981821

Yeah, Mr. "I can recreate the Universe but I can't cure you" and Mr. "muh life shucks" having the same exchange every 10 issues is truly breathtaking.

>>91981993
It redefined Sci Fi thanks to Kirby, and his Science was anything but realistic.

And the 4 disticnt central character's relationships is a core part of the F4's identity, for instance the Challengers of the Unkown have the same basic 'Science Explorers' concept but are way less memorable.

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>>91981654
>You're telling me there are people out there who like Johnny?
I don't adore him myself, but I know there are some Spider-Man fans who like Johnny through his relation with Peter and the blunt comedy he can bring. Though, like I told that other anon, I understand it's not that you're getting rid of the character or family existing entirely, just re-evaluating whether they'd want to be regularly exposed and tied to things they're not involved or interested in.

Seems sensible to me. It's always been the opinion of the others that Reed's activities aren't their cup of tea. I know going along with it anyway was meant to seem like a message of That's What Family's About, but as I said with time it starts to come off like Reed is detached and they're masochists.

Assisting him specifically when their skills or knowledge are needed or when the operation holds the possibility of helping him makes sense to me. It would make it clear they trust and rely on each other, but don't abuse that relationship.

>>91981771
>And you don't even have to have the kids or anything be "endangered"
You don't have to, but it can and does happen even by proxy. For example if the kids are left behind while the four are trapped in another dimension or timeline one too many times that starts to build as neglect.

I don't want to be assuming, really, but let me just put this on the table so we're all on the right page. I understand after seeing something like the Incredibles effortlessly pull of the dynamic a lot of fans want to see a return to form for the originals, but the thing about a long running series is that it unlike a movie can and will start to run into issues when its issues require repeat acts from the cast and one starts to wonder
>What kind of family is this?
Do not shoot back a cutesy line like "A fantastic one", I can appreciate OP's efforts despite any reservations because he's making an effort. "It's fine" doesn't fly, it's clearly not fine.

>>91981299
>What can we do to make the F4 great again?

Marvel to get the movie rights back so that they give a shit about them?

>>91981395
Why not just say 1/2

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>>91982246
Because there are four of them, we're not in math class. I'm not reducing.

>>91981299
>I'd replace Johnny with Victor (no powers*) and Ben with Pym. That'd be a truly kick-ass Science Team.
At that point naming the comic would confuse readers even if the in-universe team where to call itself that, call the comic Astonishing Tales and still name the team F4.

>>91981299
Let time move forward, characters age & changes stick.
That's literally it.
It's no coincidence that FF (and Marvel continuity with it) went to shit the moment was no longer a WW2 vet & Reed was no longer space-racing the commies. They were great because they pioneered a mindset for comics that Marvel abandoned as soon as they realized brand recognition made more money. Even presuming that the FF should be Reed, Sue, Johnny & Ben forever and ever instead of giving way to successors goes against what they stood for.
When comics are IP farms, the FF are utterly redundant. Just another capeshit team. Which is extra ironic when you realize comics are irrelevant to Marvel's overall profits and letting things breath would make for an altogether better IP farm.

>>91981993
>Yeah, Mr. "I can recreate the Universe but I can't cure you" and Mr. "muh life shucks" having the same exchange every 10 issues is truly breathtaking.
I think maybe you should look for a different team because you obviously don't actually care about the F4 and probably never thought they were "great" to begin with.

>>91982622
*Ben was no longer a WW2 vet

>>91981654
>The storm hits, but only Reed and Sue are affected, since Pym was at the deck bellow working on something, and Doom was doing his shady stuff.
Do you need to have them all there? I'd think it would work better if Victor and Pym either decline to accompany the two because of their own work and naturally Sue goes to support Reed worried for him.
Then when the two of them come back in critical condition Victor and Hank use their expertise in biology and recent discoveries in pym particles and mystic forces to keep them stable.
Of course some wackiness happens as a result of this and Microverse inhabitants and demons wreck havoc in the hospital/facility forcing the four to recognize their shortcomings and also what they can achieve working together instead of just with each other.

Pym and Doom still being somewhat egotistical and feeling insecure about Reed's growing acclaim dwarfing theirs would naturally remain bitter when the matter of who's fault the incident really was gets brought up, but they agree to let it rest until repairs and preventions are made. Of course over time a lack of venting results in things like Ultron, Annihilus and other forces being created or drawn to their efforts to overcompensate. I figure this way not only can you build Victor and Hank's growing instability and character flaws due to a form of understandable cabin fever instead of just a lapse of judgment, but every time something happens we can reinforce that straying from cooperation results in escalation, and banding together resolves it. Egos are bruised from blame or feel they're not being given the recognition they deserve for fixing something the others couldn't, but pride in their work compels them to do and be better.

I suppose once this builds to its peak without getting redundant Uatu comes in and shows each the lives of the others and what they've done for the world together to unify them not because of a lack of alternatives or desperation but respect.

>>91981395
This is anus but right.

ITT: faggots that think they know better than King Kirby and Scribe Lee

>>91982900
How so famjam?
Kirby & Lee haven't done FF in over 40 years.

>>91982732
While I'm at it, I figure it should go that Ben and Johnny weren't involved in Reed and Sue's work on the space station, but stay in the hospital facility for support.

That is where strange energies affect them. This way it's less because of being dragged along on anything, and more from compassion and fear of losing people important to them but losing something because of it.

It's also because the idea of Johnny having self-immolation due to ambiguous ties to hell fire energy opens some philosophical implications. Nothing Penance worthy of course, just the allusion of the fire outside burning from something within instead of cosmic rays.
Basically I'm saying he's not as unashamed of his shortcomings as he puts on. His flames are fueled by his soul burning with the need to be better to Sue and his friends. There's even a little thing there now where their powers make it so Sue is genuine but becomes obscured, while Johnny puts on airs but becomes transparent.
Also now Johnny Storm and Johnny Blaze have even more in common.

I'm not sure how to string Ben becoming rocky because of microverse exposure, but I guess not everything needs an explanation.

I definitely feel Hank should still have Janet around, the contrast and similarity between them and Reed and Sue is too obvious to pass up. Not sure who to bring in from Victor's cast. I guess him being close with Namor is a no brainer and parallels Reed and Ben nicely.

>>91982125

Different time, different place. The medium has evolved. That's the same strategy Marvel uses for Spider-Man, where they think making him a man-child in the books and a high school in other media is the only way for him to work.

>>91982149

But why waste time and effort building up Johnny, and churning out just another background character, when you could use some other FF characters?

>>91982484

Like I said, this is a hypothetical AU. 616 F4 are Gods now. There've hit a ceiling.

>>91982643

Pick an average F4 book. Chances are, the subplots are goona be: Reed's adick, Sue wants Namor's cock and Ben whines. 616 F4 work due to the family aspect with the kids and all, but that's because they live in a world full of tights.

What I'm proposing is an AU, where we can make the F4 THE Sci-Fi comic once again.

>>91982732

See anon, you're getting it!

>>91982900

IIT: Familyfags who don't have any ideas, but want the F4 back, somehow, but their sole reason is "copy the already told stories".

What most of you are missing is that I'm talking about an AU F4. I don't want swarm-Lactus or Dude-Lactus. I don't want carbon copy humanoid aliens.

Black Science took that concept and is fucking amazing at it. Launch an Ultimate Like AU, change the cast and bring in some different characters for a change.

>>91983137

This is actually pretty good anon. So I guess we're gonna go with a bigger cast and have the nu4 be the core team. I'd say:

>Reed brings Ben along to pilot the ship. Make it so that Ben isn't a an average joe either, but managed to become an astronaut for NASA.
>Just go ahead and make Johnny the engineer of the group.
>Janet is there as the company's* psychologist.
>Sue, Victor, Reed & Hank are the main brains.

>Reed & Sue are at the "open part" of the ship, being all romantic, which is why the shields don't protect them. Ben is also piloting alongside Johnny, so them being close to "glass" also affects them.
>Victor's doing shady shit and Hank & Janet are shaking downstairs, so they're protected.

I could see that working, but since this is an AU, I'm more interested in how all these egos would clash. Pym would be too fragile and turn to creating Ultron to "fix" the world, Doom would get into heavier alien occultism, Reed would grow more detached, and the only glue would be Sue, the only pure and good person.

>>91983399
It's interesting, I find myself writing more and I can't seem to stop.
I just scrawled something for the classic "powers get reversed" plot. I'm surprised at how deep it got.

>>91983650

So come on anon, share these ideas! I started this is as a Doom pitch where Reed goes full-on Maker and keeps the others around due to nostalgia/guilt, but it evolved into that.

What I'm trying to figure out are the suits. They'd start with normal spacesuits, say like something from Prometheus, but then would get something akin to the white suits from Anka's redesign.

Doom's a problem, because the mask is iconic, but there's no reason for him to wear it. Maybe while he's doing his occult shit, the storm affects them and he gets that scar, but it's hell mark or something (maybe tie the storm with some Lovecraftian shit) and wears an Iron Man -esque suit to cover it, but in the classic Doom-esque vein.

>>91983757
>Share these ideas!
In an hour or so if this thread is still here, I have to run some errands.
To clarify I wasn't blowing my own horn. I meant to say that from the concept of altering the line up and way the formula plays out some interesting ideas and angles have surfaced, and I'm compelled to write it out.

There's something magnetic in exploring where you can take these characters, their similarities, differences and chemistry with a familiar but fresh premise.

>>91983929

No rush anon! I'll make sure to keep it up for as long as I can. And hey, no disrespect meant, as I love reading other people's takes on same subjects.

I actually am interested in the F4 as a whiz bang family sci-fi adventure series. Not to say I'm not interested in whatever else is being pitched here I just feel there's another niche that could be filled.

A straightforward take on the pulpy super science tales for all-ages genre hasn't existed for awhile and it would be cool to see it make a comeback.

I like the idea of the original core group still being a family but one where their adventures are the glue that hold them together. They can't do anything else. They don't want normal lives. And although going on wild adventures with others is satisfying there's something about that special mix of the chemistry/dynamics and the sort of adventures they go on together that make them work.

They are first and foremost problem solving explorers. Beating villains is mostly a means to an end. But it's still a somewhat regular part of their adventures.

Still trying to put my thoughts together here. But I think original recipe Fantastic Four still has more than a bit of potential.

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Instead of the Fantastic Four, why not bring back the Future Foundation? Much better system and its the natural advancement for the Richards Family. You can also put Spider-Man in there (Since Parker Industries is gonna go down, and adds some much wanted sexual tension between him, Sue, and Johnny) and keep Doctor Doom good.

>>91984561

Good idea, but I was personally talking about an F4 reimagining, because I wanted to touch upon some past F4 stories. For a 616 F4, having them explore the universes they've created is the perfect pitch really.

>>91981299
>ITT Someone who hates and doesn't get Fantastic Four tries to fix it.

>>91984893

Or maybe someone who'd like to see an AU F4 try something different? Damn /co/, is all you want reheated scraps?

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>>91984871
But the fantastic four just does not work since Johnny had died the first time

What would happen to the rest of the Foundation that also went with them into godhood? The foundation is richard's hard life work finally being put into massive scale.

I think your ideas are absolute gold, but it would just be very hard to fit in with the shadow of the Foundation.

>>91985099

Well, like I said above, this is bout a hypothetical AU F4 book. This thread is to gather pitches, and considering the versitality of the brand, compare them. But /co/ntrarians just skipped that part and focused on "muh family".

I'm not saying the current, main F4 should be forgotten and whatnot, I'm talking about a supposed Marvel imprint featuring an AU F4 team, and how I'd do it. But I guess folks around here would rather than bitch than pitch...

>>91985215
That makes more sense, but AU doesnt sell as well in marvel as it does with DC.

>>91985322

True, but that's because Marvel never bothered with it. DC went ahead and launched Vertigo, and since supernatural/horror books need less restraints, dumped the majority of them there, and let the writers go nuts. What Marvel did with the Ultimate line was just retell the same stories with different lenses.

Still, this is a "wish-list" thread essentially. Go nuts with the scripting. It doesn't matter any way.

>>91985408
I wish Marvel pushed that Multiverse concept like DC does with Batman Beyond, Flash, Earth 2, JLA, etc.

FF would be perfect for that actually.

>>91985215
I'm personally interested in what a back to basics AU pitch that doesn't just retread the same ground as earlier stories would go. Just fun pulpy super science. Doesn't have to be retro. Doesn't have to pull from 616 events and stories. Just the core 4 on an adventure aimed at the modern version of the same demos Jonny Quest and the original Kirby/Lee run were going for.

>>91981299
>Make Reed black
>Sue is a latina
>Johnny is gay
>Ben stays the same

Make them all female

>>91981902
Family focused or not, if you take away characters it's not the FF anymore, it's something else.

I'm not against having the cast spread out and do different books, or making a new team, but if your goal is to rejuvenate the FF brand, you don't do that by ditching the core cast that were half the reason the book was so great in the first place. It's not the character's fault some writers have a hard time making them interesting.

>>91985538

Same here. It's just a shame Marvel doesn't kniw what to do with the F4. Great character, a brilliant world, underused antagonists. I think the fact that they live in a tights world realy limits them.

>>91985590

That'd be fun as well anon. I have no problem with more pulpy books, as long as they don't devolve in "quirky ones".

>>91981654
>Hickman, Morrison, Ellis
None of whom are currently working at Marvel

>>91985724

Valid concern, but I feel after decades of pretty much the same cast, it's worth exploring an F4 team that's compromised exlusively by scientists.

>>91985738
...And? It's just an example that some writers put work into either research, or are good enough to make their pseudo-sci-fi believable. Twas a response to the anon who said that by making the book into a "hard sci-fi" you lose the writer.

Why can't /co/ read the details? This is purely an AU "make your own F4 team" thread. Why the fuck can't you pitch something?! Why the fuck do you come in here to bitch about totally unrelated stuff?

I'm not talking about revamping the main F4. I'm talking about an AU team. Just pretend DC bought all F4 stuff and put them in an imprint. There, happy?! Can /co/ actually pitch something now?!

>>91981299
Divorce Reed and Sue. Reed impregnates another woman.

other than that

Make Reed black

>>91981299
We could have Pym and Doom with the original 4

they just need to go back and read first 8 issues.
There is still stuff there to be explored.

only problem here is reed. he is a dick. he act likes hje knows everything and he ussually does. so there is no point in exploring. no mystery.

>>91981299
>missing the importance of johnny and sue.

Also space mystery solving comics never last so good luck getting to 50. I dunno your pitch literally put me to sleep with the tired old "more science! the kind of science i like only!" shit.

Kudos for wanting Reed to stay in character.

>>91981591
New writers keep forgetting Johnny's character growth which is why people think he doesn't have any,

>>91981902
We get it, you want to suck Doom's cock.

Go away.

Back for a bit. I'll see what I can squeeze out while stuff is recharging.

Right off the bat I'm going to start with more than I'll ever manage and say I think the first thing to do is allude to the awe inspiring nature of the science, magic and metaphor of the coming encounters through the arc or volume titles, and if mecha anime has taught me nothing it's that there's no better way to do that than vague religions reference.

Vol 1,All things Bright and Beautiful. Of course referencing the intelligent and alluring aspects of the characters, along with the beauty of the mystery over the horizon they touch when their work gives them new potential and perspective.

Vol 2, All creatures Great and Small. Galactus arrival and microverse.

Vol 3, All things Wise and Wonderful. Uatu, dimensions, parallel worlds.

Arc 4, From The One Above All. Self explanatory. Much like has been the case for each of the characters individually at one point in the comics this would basically be the culmination of their search for meaning and reassurance that they're good people and there is good in people. The FF have met him in the form of Kirby, Doom has met with his heralds the Celestials many times and Pym with Eternity, claimed to be Loki admittedly but still so this would basically be a retread of those moments to bring together everything before a new team or direction happens.

>>91986378
I'm not saying it should be Rick and Morty just with more characters. It could be used to deal with the importance of scientific growth, and how much should be sacrificed for us to advance. So you would see the moral Reed start showing some Maker traits, and the conflicting utopian. Doom's is a totalitarian world, Reed's is just a Darwinistic Bubble, and Sue's is the classic hippie dream. "Harder" Science =/= Meme Science.

At some point, after you've seen Galactus, the Negative Zone, all that jazz, the concepts of the soul, the spiritual and all that would be brought forth as well.

And yeah, atheist Reed is just a cliche stereotype that harms the character, if anything.

>>91986416
Hey, at least I'm admitting that I'm a certain character fag. At least I'm not wasting time to bitch about the source material in an AU thread...

>>91985215
All you've been DOING is bitching about Sue and Namor. Also you literally said "how do we fix the f4" in the thread opener and then turned to "n-no, au" because the only pitch you have is a stretched out, convoluted, worse version of their origin.

The whole POINT of Doom is that he's the team's nemesis, he's a BAD scientist who dabbles in the black arts and other bullshit because he doesn't give a FUCK about science, he cares about power. He's the opposite of what the team should be.

>>91985771
They were all scientists, or at least engineers, at the start. Reed getting all the science juice happened over time. Why not let Sue be an investigator and Johnny be a mechanic who builds the brilliant designs Reed pieces together again?

>>91981299
I'm very okay with these costumes, but I do think Ben needs a tank top. Always liked him with a tank top and shorts.

>>91986481
Great stuff anon, great stuff. At least you got the point of the thread...

>>91986603
...AU's in the description anon... The whole point of AUs is to change things. So yeah, this AUs Doom isn't that bad of a guy. What do you want? An AU where Reed is an Italian Catholic Engineer, Sue is a bisexual archeologist from China, with Johnny her Albino Half-brother microbiologist and Ben the black Jew mercenary pilot. They don't board a rocket and get hit by cosmic radiation, rather, they're abducted by aliens who enter through Reed's dimensional portal. They experiment on them and they gain powers! Doom's mad 'cause he and Reed were having a threesome with Sue, and Richards' dick was bigger.

There. Muh family. Muh "non retreated" origin. Muh evil Doom. Here you go anon, a perfect AU!

>>91981299
sounds great but please don't touch galactus. Ewing might die if there is anymore interference/just leave for DC. unless that was your plan.

>>91983137
Let's see what I can get through. So something to clarify is throughout the first two volumes of this I imagine whether or not he's scarred from the accident at the facility or something before, Victor would still just be Victor through most of this. It's not meant to be a surprise to the reader who he is, just a marked point that he isn't quite there yet. The rest of the group take on code names and identify as this super science team the Fantastic Four but he still sees himself as just a scientist working to lockdown on this facility they've made home, office and vault to what they might have let through in Vol 1. Think of the Ghostbusters' setup, they're doing what they're doing now not out of sheer whim or curiosity, but because they're partially responsible and the only ones equipped to deal with the problems.

Allow me to shift referential gears here for a bit from Ghostbusters to Harry Potter, Victor would basically be the Snape of the facility. He is a silent and dark character, dealing with shadowy forces in a shady fashion.

He is harsh to the temp volunteers and assistants as much as his peers, but never intentionally harmful, until the tipping point of Vol 3 which I imagined to be a sort of reverse Origin story for Victor and Hank after their first in Vol 1. The thing that makes them splinter instead of unite.

>>91981299
I've had this idea of Victor, in following with the greek elemental theme, would not be scarred but lose his body altogether in the same experiment, becoming an energy being. His armor is essentially a containment suit, and rather having "Doombots", it's really just a collection of suits that he'll either occupy singularly, or manipulate in mass by "spreading out" to them.

Rather than being driven nuts by his facial scars (and/or Reed showing him), what's agonizing about this existence is that he can't replicate the physical sensations he had when he was human. He can't, for instance, "feel" the warmth of Susan's skin, or "taste" food and drink like he did before, and every so often he'll think he's suffocating because he can't breath, even when in his present state it would be an irrelevant act.

In many ways he's more powerful and greater than he ever was, but he'll never forget what being human was like, and what he lost in return will eat at him forever.

>>91981650
This. Also read the Ultimates

>>91987038
You can likely imagine Hank's. It would be vaguely similar, except with the FF instead of the Avengers. Its justifications would also be more sci-fi psychological thriller central. Hank, Victor and Reed all were dabbling in robotics. Hank wants an edge since Victor has religious figures and mystics around the world name dropping his work, and Reed has most of the professional in STEM referencing him as the source of influence or inspiration for groundbreaking advances.

Contrast to what happens with Victor, which I'll explain later, Hank spends too much time analyzing the Surfer's board. Exposure to the residual telepathic emissions from it calling to its missing owner cause him to start becoming obsessed, insisting even when Janet tells him to take time away to rest that his work is important, he is important and the only one who can decipher the true scale of the discovery is him, but even though he's the only one he can't do it alone. He needs an equal who won't question or demean him, a herald who understands and respects his word. Leading to Silver Ultron.

Fortunately Victor's studies in dimensional portals allows them to cut off Ultron from Earth and the power cosmic by stranding it in the Negative Zone, you can guess who that pisses off so I'll gloss over most of that.

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Turn FF into an all ages book that just rips off Magic School Bus

>>91987355
Keep 'em coming anon, these are all brilliant!

Make Johnny bisexual and have him hook up with adult Iceman. The book will sell like wildfire.

>>91987210
Interesting take for an AU anon.

>>91982732
>I'd think it would work better if Victor and Pym either decline to accompany the two because of their own work
They obviously were both Mission Control on the ground.

Fantastic 400. Just use an arbitrary multiverse catastrophe to excuse a bunch of fanfic level rewrites and reskins, then use reader votes to determine which F4 survives as the new comic leads, but leave obvious loose ends for a reset button when the new contest winning alt F4 inevitably fails. Guaranteed boost in readership and word of mouth with the option to return to status quo, nothing could possibly go wrong..

>>91987355
After some not too pleasant visits and visiting of the N-Zone to deal with that, Ben wakes up human at one point but quickly starts to turn back. The group run scans to see if his power is slowly fading due to time or wear, but find the exposure to the radiation in the Negative Zone appears to be reversing the process that first changed him.

They setup an area to imitate the Negative Zone's properties, however instead of removing their powers they learn all the exposure from test was gradually building up and is now reversing their abilities.

Reed becomes immutable, so invincible, instead of elastic.
Sue produces a black fractal that appears to just delete anything it makes contact with, material, mystic and even in her dreams, the metaphysical.
Ben appears to remain normal until he discovers he's becoming a hologram. The opposite of solid matter. Get it? Lost the image, kept his presence. Gets the image, loses the presence.
Johnny gains a repairing/healing aura.

Hank and Janet aren't affected because they had split and left the facility after the Ultron fiasco was resolved. Same internal court situation as the Avengers lead to his decision.

Doom is the most abstract change in that he gets the ability to simply make someone or something "understand"

>>91987701
Even better.

>>91987210
FUND IT.

>>91987210

so hes Johann from BPRD with the bad guy from Pirates of the Caribbean's motivation?

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I actually think FF works better when it is never super serious or gets too dramatic.

>>91984375
>I actually am interested in the F4 as a whiz bang family sci-fi adventure series. Not to say I'm not interested in whatever else is being pitched here I just feel there's another niche that could be filled.

Pretty much this. I think it should be a bit more over the top with the scifi adventures and evil space monster of the week villains

>>91987965
It at first seems like telepathy or some divine magic he's tapping into, similar to Johnny's glow, that with a simple gesture makes the most evil opponents simply and suddenly concede to some unclear matter with the simple remark
>I understand.
Before leaving to parts unknown, doing good along the way.

It's theorized by Ben. Oh, by the way Ben's a super scientist now, not from the inversion but because as a hologram his senses are uncapped. He can read, process and recall information instantaneously and without limit. He goes through the academic material in the facility to catch up so he can substitute for Hank. The reason being is he can sleep, but he doesn't dream.

Which is contrast to Sue who can't even find sanctuary in her dreams because the influence of her power could cause distortions to dream concepts. She learns of this after a frustrated impulse during a "Back In High School Flunking A Test You Didn't Study For" dream, when she reads reports world wide of people who had similar dreams reporting seeing black fractals consuming the classroom and dream characters and waking up cold and short of breath.

So Ben can't dream, Sue doesn't want to sleep, Reed never needs rest, or anything for that matter, and Johnny's field has him feeling so relaxed he doesn't want to do anything all day.

Anyway Professor Grimm theorizes Magic is the obscured acting on the real, Victor's inversion has replaced his usual magic with the ability to simply make anything obscured realized. A kind of instant nirvana.

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>>91981299
I don't get it why y'all are bitching and trying to remake the F4 into something entirely else. For the decade before their cancellation, F4 was one of Marvel's continuously high quality books.
>Waid (GOAT)
>Straczynski (okay-ish)
>McDuffie (okay to good)
>Millar (pretty good)
>Hickman (GOAT)
>Fraction/Allred (pretty good)
>Robinson (okay to good)
While each kept the familiar elements, most of these featured big, bombastic sci-fi ideas in the ol' Kirby/Byrne manner, and just enough of a twist on the old format to keep things fresh.
Were they selling particularly well?
No, but they weren't selling at cancellation levels either. If anything, Marvel should keep them going for their big historical role. And I'm pretty sure there are lots of writers who would like to write this old and beloved property.
(Ultimate Fantastic Four also had decent ideas, and those characters were essentially the same, only younger.)

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I stopped reading Marvel shortly after Hickman's F4/FF run. Someone give me the rundown on what's happened to them since Future Franklin left the present

>>91987413
>Turn FF into an all ages book that just rips off Magic School Bus

Strangely I can see FF working like magic school bus

Hopefully this is the end.
>>91988838
The dark aspect however is Victor isn't harsh tongued anymore but instead neglects to speak at all as if in a trance, and instead of boasting his contributions and looking down on the shortcomings of others on a mission he ignores calls to emergencies against the Super Skrull when the Fantastic Four are already at a disadvantage since Ben's power makes it like he's not even there, Johnny can only repair damage and doesn't want to budge or cause more, Sue is afraid to use her powers at all and Reed while invincible is no stronger than he was as a human.

It gets worse. Victor and the other zealots he's touched gather to a mountain, construct a shrine and begin preparing for the ritual conditioning of Sue to fracture the barriers of dimensions and usher in through the living sacrifice of Johnny, the many angled ones

>>91981299
Make them young again like in the ultimate universe

They need to draw in news fans

And no more race bending

>>91981299
Give 'em all Samurai Swords, phasers (TOS), and jet-packs, even the kids. Plus, each has a personalized H.E.R.B.I.E.s that reflect their personalities, powers, and needs.

>>91989477
Sue is used to tear through reality, and mystical energies to stabilize and bridge the dimensions.

To repay Reed for preventing Galactus destroying more inhabited planets before they blossom, despite that act violating the Watcher oath and the FF gaining the ire of the zealots of Galactus, Uatu silently guides Hank and Janet to intervene.

Unseen they free Reed by shrinking him down as well to work on calibrating the negative zone generator to invert the mystical energies bridging the gate. Sealing the threat permanently instead of releasing them.

Reed volunteers to position the device as his invulnerability will shield him from attacks. He however fears that Victor, at the center of the ceremony, will be caught in the destruction and tries to reason with him to no avail.

Victor had turned from a mute to a hivemind victim incoherently chanting along with the crowd of lost souls. Unaware of anything else around them, but between the cacophony of foreign names and words Reed thinks he hears a familiar voice whisper "Help."

Left with no time or choice Reed activates the device, with himself between it and the gate.

>>91987413
So good.

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>>91987210
Wildfire?

Bring back Hickman and have him team up with ewing

>>91988888
Quints checked for truth.

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>>91981299
this show did it very well, not too old but not old parents either and still true to thier characters, the designs were great but the animation was atrocious

made me realize how I love Johnny hes basically the spiderman/ non gay Iceman of the group


Im so sick of ben and his sulking

they need a new generation of kids to like them their nostalgia value is really low


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzDtJjtMOfw

>>91990710
>>91988888
The quints show it should be rebooted as Fantastic Eight

>>91989999
Gale force wind, debris and blinding energy surges rush up towards the closing tears in space, the silhouette of what looks like a boulder pinning a kite's strings is the only unmoving shape.

The storm of energies created an inversion field paradoxically reverting the reversed powers back to their original state and beyond. Johnny and Sue unconscious, Ben, the ever loving blue eyed Thing again, with his back to the nightmare is occupied wrestling with all his familiar blessed inhuman strength and weight to hold on to them and Victor with one arm close to his chest and Reed's limbs pulled over his shoulder with the other. Hank and Janet take sanctuary in the crevices of one of the fists of the rocky colossus. His hide shielding them and him from the invisible hand of death clawing at them. At his size or larger size they would be its victim.

Mr.Fantastic, on the other hand, is contorted to his elastic physical and mental limit. The only thing keeping the ball of bodies of mindless victims and assailants alike pressing against his torso from being pulled into the unseen horror grasping at the shrinking pours in spacetime. Drowned out by the chaos around neither Reed nor Ben hear the other howls of exertion and agony. There is a sudden silence and relief. Then a shockwave, and ear splitting sonic boom sending them in the opposite direction.

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>>91990770
Even Stark And Hulk was better here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN2wR4HgJ1I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhRtqy6l-8

>>91990770
CN screwed it so bad barely showing it. At one point you could buy the full series for $5 at Five Below

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>>91990958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1nAuJm9a7o

and Shehulk

You clearly don't really care about the Fantastic Four, you just want a hard Sci-Fi book featuring Reed. That's cool, but good luck with that not just ending up a steath mini, let alone getting to 50 issues. Honestly, I'm skeptical on how familiar you are with the team since, no offense, but a lot of your opinions expressed in the thread feels like the same blanket generalizations a lot of people who haven't read for the team but want to give of the impression that they have would say: everything after Bryne is shit, Johnny a party dude( that only stated happening in the early 2000's(fucking Waid, man), "not Sue wanting Namor's dick 'cause Reed'd prefer sciencing.", wanting Sue to be more like her Ultimate counter part etc.

Honestly I don't think they need any revision or anything like that, I think the path they were on before being shuffled away was pretty interesting, as it served to sorta expend their characters and their position in the Marvel Universe and not just clumsily throw Doom and Hank in.

>>91990857
The team slowly awakes in the med bay of the facility.

Their bodies, spirits and powers severely worn out from the ordeals, but they are safe and they are together. For now.

The toll leave few with the energy to speak, and more cannot find the words or do not wish to. There is as much relief as disappointment with a return to their unique kind of normal.

Janet attempts to rekindle a sense of joy even in sorrow by reminding them were it not for what makes them different they would not be together now. A sudden silence washes over, but instead of the boom of a shockwave the gravely voice of Ben Grimm summarizes his once more simple thoughts on the matter
>Yah always want what yah can't get. Yah always get what yah don't want.

Johnny nervously chuckles as far broken ribs allow, unsure if the gruff voice or face it came from tickled the sensation. It's a welcome distraction from memory of his blank eyed sister plunging a sacrificial dagger into his chest to open him up to the touch of things crawling out from the sky. They all share the same hazy glare towards a screen or wall in front of them. Except Victor, turned away from everyone and everything. Deathly silent. No ridicule of Johnny's lack of sense to stay clear from a ring of candles and avoid being engulfed by the burst of hellfire emitted when mystic entities are forced into being, nor how his flailing on the floor knocked down the only things keeping the being at bay, no subliminal remarks against Ben should he feel his glare on his back, no requests for Janet's silence should she talk back for the others, no clarifications to Susan trying to quell the matter that her lack of reprimand results in the repetition of the cause of the complaints, not even a sharp reminder to predictable Pym how often they fix his mistakes and grateful he should be. He had nothing to say to anyone, and no one said anything to him or about him or his silence or his failure. Particularly Richards.

>>91991856
Victor's memory was a crystal palace. As much a gift as a curse. He recalled every moment of his life, but his most vivid memories were of the brief time with his mother.
He recalls one especially of him asking why she chooses to be the witch to those who take her gifts then curse their name?
She told him people do not choose, people are chosen, and to be chosen was as much a gift as a curse.

Perhaps. The reach of the unifying mystic force that touched the mind of the many angled ones and bent his will to their colossal whim, had also touched the mind of countless other unknown, nameless forces between worlds. The ones who view, the ones who choose, and through them he saw more than he ever imagined and all he ever dreamed of in the early days he picked up his late mother's work. All, that is, but himself.

The last thing he recalls he saw, in fact, was the face of Richards accompanied by the sound of a pathetic cry for help. And perhaps, in a way, he did.
Victor never got to tell his mother the realization his life brought on her words, but now might share it with those watching in need of illumination to their reality.
The chosen are puppets, cursed for their gifts. But Doom is not chosen, Doom is the gift and the curse.

From there I imagined Doctor Doom disappearing and returning as his more villainous self, meeting Namor along the way, and Pym still reluctant to accept membership after Silver Ultron slips in and out of heroics but developing a closer relation with Janet. Johnny and Ben take the spots indefinitely. They all cross paths and unite until they meet the one behind the curtain, TOAA who looks like Adult Franklin. Sorry had to do it. Too easy a Terminator mind bender to pass up..

>>91993646
Please stop your hilarious fanfiction. I can't believe you guys call yourselves FF fan when u hate what they are about.

>>91982149
>something like the Incredibles effortlessly pull of the dynamic
there it is
literally what needs to be done to save F4