Jack's Goal...

>>91917722
So if Aku had killed everyone else on the planet, Jack shouldn't have tried to go back either, because it could affect some of the aliens we saw?

Who cares you fucking autist

>>91917722
Jack's family was still alive when he fought aku for the first time.

even if there were some good things in the future, a world where aku doesn't turbofuck anyone at all is even better. he's still ruling everything. him not ruling at all is a better choice.

it'd be worse if Jack didn't find a way to get back to the past to save his family and people.

"gotta get back to the past" was never vague at all.

Depending on how time travel works he would either be erasing the Aku timeline which would kill everyone that was born after the point he's traveling back to, or just starting a new timeline which wouldn't be that bad. Any way you slice it there's no way he's saving the millennia worth of people who lived and suffered under Aku's rule.

>>91917722
>fucking time travel, how does it work!?
No one knows. If you believe in the single timeline, literally everyone should try to stop Jack because he's effectively trying to kill them. If you believe in multiple ones, Jack killing Aku in the past will do absolutely nothing for the people in this timeline.

There are also the sticky timeline (all the bad shit will still happen regardless just for a different reason) and the hard timeline (the world being as it is already means Jack failed in his quest).

>>91917722
Jack going back to the past would be akin to accidentally hitting New Game after beating a long ass game and losing all the progress. Plus it would retco the series and thus piss of everyone.

>>91918370
>fulfilling the goal set up from episode 1 is a retcon
You may need a dictionary.

>>91918382
Ending on a retcon would ruin the series as a whole

Countless people have died, far more than Jack has ever saved. Why would you want to prevent that from happening?

>>91918332
>>91918018
Basically my whole point.

I am not saying Aku's future is a nice place to live in, but by changing all that, you are changing the lives of millions of people, with no assurance that by killing Aku you change anything, or make things better (for example, by killing Aku, you might have made it possible for someone to blow up the entire World), plus you commit "time-genocide".

>>91918403
It would ruin the series as a whole if he gave up on his quest to undo thousands of years of suffering by deciding the post apocalypse is good enough.

>>91918403
But you didn't address my point: that's not a retcon
>>91918442
/thread

>>91918440
"time-genocide" doesn't mean anything. If Jack stays in the future he commits time genocide on the timeline where he goes back and saves the day.

>>91918442
>undo thousands of years of suffering

In no conceptual scenario of how time travel works would he be able to undo thousands of years of suffering without also murdering everyone involved, unless they go full "LOL IT'S A CARTOON BITCH, A WIZARD DID IT" with it and have killing Aku magically make everyone's life better and everyone in the future still exist somehow in a roughly similar state.

>>91918484
>"time-genocide" doesn't mean anything. If Jack stays in the future he commits time genocide on the timeline where he goes back and saves the day.

Uh, in the real world maybe but not in a theoretical cartoon universe where time travel actually exists. If he erases a timeline where people live then he is very much committing genocide.

>>91918501
Given that Aku is the ultimate evil in that world, a magical ending like that actually isn't far-fetched.

>>91918501
>"LOL IT'S A CARTOON BITCH, A WIZARD DID IT" with it and have killing Aku magically make everyone's life better and everyone in the future still exist somehow in a roughly similar state.

I'm 99% sure this how it will play out if he does go back to the past. This isn't hard sci-fi, Genndy doesn't give a fuck about how time travel should work.

>>91918484
Well...!
Shit, that's a good point...

>>91918501
I guess it opens up the subject of "What's better? Living a life of suffering, or not living at all?", which is also worth mentioning.

>>91918501
>without also murdering everyone involved

that isn't murder

I took a right turn on the drive to work today. Through that definition, I "murdered" every organism that would have existed in the timeline where I turn left. If Jack decides not to time travel, he would have "murdered" everyone that would have been saved had he gone back to the past. Every time you make a decision that forks your timeline, you would be committing murder. It's meaningless.

>>91918541
>how time travel should work
Given our current understanding of the universe, you might as well have said "how magic should work". There is no "should" here.

>>91918550
No, >>91918484 is not a good point. The Aku-dominated timeline actually exists. The saved timeline doesn't yet. It's like comparing chopping a living crying baby's head off to using a condom.

>>91917722
I call this quandary the 'Jack Paradox' and it's a large part of the reason the show not having a proper resolution never really bothered me.

And I feel like Jack himself is on some level aware of this, since at multiple instances, he passes up opportunities to return to the past in order to help those in the future. This would only be reasonable if he had some doubts about how worthwhile returning to the past actually was.

>Plus, I feel like it would send the wrong message. Instead of living in the present with all your mistakes and choices, trying to better yourself for a better future, instead "you can always take a magical portal back in time and fix all your mistakes"

This is kind of dumb though. Jack isn't in the future by any mis step of his own, and he doesn't really belong there. Him going back to the past is more putting things back in their proper place.

>>91918501
Samurai Jack has a theme of predestination to a limited extent.

The people he helped will have been born anyway. Everyone who suffered would likely still be born as it was destiny for them to be born.

T. man who watched the fucking show.

>>91918567
Again, you are essentially claiming that chopping a baby's head off is the same thing as using a condom. You are wrong and stupid.

>>91918613
Well then, sounds like Jack should go back to the past and kill Aku. Thread over.

>>91918585
>>91918626
It's much more reminiscent of the abortion debate, actually.

>>91918403
>ruin

Mighty Max from the 90s did this and it didn't erase the awesomeness of the ride. A closing side movie would have been nice but eh what you gonna do for a toy line?

>>91917722

Since we are in a world fill with magic and oriental shit, I always assumed some reincarnation business is going on. Everybody has an immortal soul, that existed before they were born and will exist after they die. Even if Jack changes the past and effectively renders their existence null, it would only mean that their souls would be born in a world free of Aku, and potentially better.

There's no need of souls and reincarnation to explain that, what you describe is what one would logically expect from changing the past, but the author could just ignore those potential dangers and show the people from the future living in an alternate, happy future, with memories of a different life. After all, it's magical time travel.

>>91917722
Aku is literally the physical embodiment of all the world evil. He cannot be allowed to rule earth as long as he did

SJ is honestly not that complex

My guess is that everyone Jack knows and helps will somehow still be born, only in a better timeline without Aku.

The main difference would be that they'd never know Jack, since he died thousands of years before as the Emperor of Japan.

>>91918567
>Through that definition, I "murdered" every organism that would have existed in the timeline where I turn left.

Indeed, if time travel were real and there were only one timeline and you made a choice to use it then you would be doing that. Time travel isn't real and your train of thought relies on it not being real to function, so to apply your reasoning to Samurai Jack where time travel is fucking real is bizarre and misguided. You're basically saying "it's not murder because it didn't happen because time travel isn't real" which is absolutely 100% wrong in the context of the reality of the show. You're wrong on such a fundamental level it hurts to think about.

>>91918626
But in neither scenario is Jack chopping off heads in any sense. Both are indirect losses of potential lives. Your analogy does not fit.

>>91918626

The problem if that, if the baby already exists and you go to the past and use a condom the day he was conceived, you know you're killing him, or more correctly erasing him from existence.

>>91917722
Jack believes in the split-timeline thoery, hence why he's often given up going to the past to help someone in need.

yall biscutheads if you think the timelines aint gonna split. jacks going back to live in the "got back deafeated aku " timeline to live in peace while ashi is gonna stay in the "post future aku future" and pick up the pieces on her own journey. timelines gonna split so both can exsist and spinnoffs can be made.

>>91917722
I see it as Jack wants to return to the exact moment after Aku sends him to the past, not going any farther behind than that. Then, he puts Aku in the ground and saves everyone he ever knew. The existential repercussions to a brighter future are irrelevant, both in a selfish sense (Jack wants to save HIS people first and foremost) and a moral sense (erasing thousands of years of suffering, rather than allowing the suffering to ever happen because muh butterflies).

tl;dr: Yes, you SHOULD kill Hitler.

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>>91917722
The amount of interconnected discord to galaxies and societies Aku has generated is unspeakable, what "good"? Even the gods recognize that. This whole thing started because of divine intervention, but humans aren't allow to intervene because...?

>Plus, I feel like it would send the wrong message.
Then there's this secondary conditioning people have that because we can't do something now we should just accept the way of things forever, yet as soon as we devise the technology to defy it everyone hops on board all smiles. See planes, at first there was the belief man should just never leave the ground or go into the heavens, surprise! Not only is travelling one of the hottest things to do today but we're all very eager to go out into space. If you think our ancestors who were going on about staying where we belong wouldn't just as quickly join in for the thrill you're having a laugh and let me tell you right now the second someone somehow finds a way to time travel you can bet your soon to be nonexistent bank account every last navel gazing twit touting going with the flow won't retract their position, but instead just go back and have it so they never said such nonsense.

The hypocritical, insolent gall of this "lest we become Prometheus in chains" mentality we so readily swallow where if someone dares to do the extraordinary all the higher powers conspire to come down from their ivory tower to finger wave in their face, tell them to know their place before returning for a spot of ambrosia before the afternoon rape.

This outdated The Time Machine approach to fictional morals is hilarious.

I've got a moral and message for you. The next time you visit the doctor and they tell you your health is at risk, don't take anything. Clearly you were supposed to die before you mystically learned of this problem and a possible alternative to your fate. Do not rectify the course of things. Do not collect $200. Accept your rightful place as human fertilizer.

>>91917722
You've just realized how the series will end, you fool. Jack will not return to the past, and he will defeat Aku in the present. Then he will go on a journey to undo the evil that WAS Aku left behind

>>91919245
What about the Guardian's portal?

>>91919258
Aku said he eradicated all the portals. Wonder if he did something to the Guardian.

Well, Jack starts off fairly idealistic. He thinks that any world without Aku is bound to be a better world than one with him in it, which is not really that hard to understand. However, I'm not sure Jack understands the ramifications of going back to the past. He thinks that as long as he kills Aku nothing bad could come out of it, or at least, nothing worse than Aku. Jack's idealism heavily clashes with the first look he got at Aku's world after being flung into the future, creating this illusion. He also probably didn't account that he'd save so many people in the future for he imagined that he'd beat Aku fairly quickly.
I'm sure that's the mindset Jack started with and the one that stuck throughout his entire journey. He never stopped to think about it as the years kept passing. But I think Jack will take all of this into consideration as soon as time travel becomes viable once again.

>>91917722
Welcome to time travel 101. Next on the schedule: causality paradoxes.

>>91917722
Am I going insane?
>Aku
>The ultimate evil
>A demon hell bent on conquering Earth
>Enslaves billions in order to farm that sweet crystal
>Takes over the future and multiple galaxies and races
>Peaceful communities threatened by big baddies 24/7 (as seen in ep 1 of new season)
>Anyone who doesn't pay tribute to Aku is banished
>I'ts okay to not kill Aku
Is everyone in this thread retarded?

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>>91919345
Since when could Aku defeat the power of prophecy in this universe? The portal is still around, even if the Guardian isn't necessarily.

Jack's absence caused by Aku is already an unnatural change to the original order of things. You're not seeing the beautiful Aku-free future of love and cute aliens that was going to happen but was disrupted when Aku FLUNG HIM INTO THE FUTURE.

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>>91919806
>future of love and cute aliens

>>91917722
Hey OP, the expression is never SAT right with me.

American education, not even once.

>>91919788
Then why did he claim he eradicated all the portals? Key-word being all.

>>91919788

God destroyed it because he acts in extremely weird ways.

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>Jack can't find his sword
>..But he can still get it..
>And he can defeat the guardian
>Aku on his trail
>Jack beats the guardian but he hears in the distance
>FFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL
>Go, we'll hold him for as long as we can, say Ashi and the Guardian
>Jack starts running towards the portal with his clap clap clap clap sandals
>Guardian gets rekt in the distance instantly, Aku goes full tentacle forest mode
>In the last nano second Jack jumps into the portal
>...
>The Emperor: "The sword!"
>Aku: "Not this time.."
>Another hand reaches for the sword
>The Emperor: "Aaahh! Mother! Aku has returned! Do as we have pla-
>YYYAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!
>Aku: What?!
>The Emperor: Who..?!
>Aku is destroyed
>The emperor gets up, the mother and son rush to him, the little kid hides behind his father's robes while looking at the mysterious warrior
>Emperor: We are forever indebted to you, warrior
>Mother: Who are you?
>Jack turns around and opens his eyes
>He looks at his family
>He then locks eyes with the child
>After a few seconds they both smile at each other
>Jack begins to glow and fade
>He speaks in a fading and echoing voice:
>"They call me...
>Jack"

>The emperor's story he just told his son in that flashback episode is now repeated, with a new version of the return of aku and the saint

>>91921285
Not bad I guess. Something feels missing though.