Why is he so unpopular nowadays?

Man of Murder

The character isn't what makes a comic book good or bad. All that matters is the writer. And they tend to give Superman stories to bad, boring writers these days.

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>>91833418
>unpopular

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjqqRlgzv6c

>'Cause no one wants to know
>The man who stands for things we outgrow
>He's too noble and too blind
>We're all older now
>And we don't need someone to care about
>The innocence we left behind

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I think he's good

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>>91833672

We're too cynical to appreciate Superman nowadays.

>>91833418
His books sell fairly well, he's not unpopular.

>>91833418
Just because his popularity is eclipsed by the brooding sadman in a bat costume doesn't mean he's unpopular.

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Why does Superman allow bad things to happen in Gotham?

>>91833862
Superman has his hands full with Metropolis, where crazy shit seems to happen on a daily basis. One of his greatest enemies lives there, remember?

If it were Silver Age Superman, he could have saved the world twenty times over in less than a day. But that's not what it is amymore.

>>91833418
It's selling pretty well though. Bellow Batman, but still above most other heroes. If you mean the movies then it's because DC movies in general are a mess.

>>91833418
You only think he is unpopular because you've been listening to edgy mainstreamers who cum over everything Marvel, as well as animefags who resent the fact that Man of Steel made more money than anything related to their hobby.

>>91833418
>His book is in the top ten selling singles
>This means he's not popular

What did OP mean by this?

>>91833919
What the fuck does anime have to do with Man of Steel being shit? Or is this projection?

>>91833418
Well the movie didn't help

>>91833418
Cause he doesn't look or act like that anymore

>>91833707
>if you don't like Superman you're a bad person.

Maybe people don't appreciate that he's a beacon of conformity Johnson.

>>91833418
just loudmouth edgy juveniles thinking they're being clever

New 52, specially Geoff Johns' early portrayal in Justice League, which was used as the face of the modern Superman.

Because DC's media output has been shitty for a while now, the comics aren't relevant, the movies have been mediocre and there hasn't been a decent animated series since Young Justice. The only thing keeping them relevant is The Flash and Arrow and they're both quickly going to shit

Superman's status as the most powerful, important and beloved character of the company. That rubs someone people wrong. Specially when they show other heroes gushing about how great and hot Superman is or can't seem to do anything without his help.

That's also almost the same reason why most people dislike Batman as well.

>>91833418
Weak people would rather try and tear him down than bring themselves up to his level.

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Between rebirth and super son he's doing quite well for himself, actually

>>91833939
In short, weebs don't like Superman and insist he's not as popular as their favorite annie mays; mediocre as MoS was, it drew more than they can even conceive

>Or is this projection?

Uh, no. That implies I'm secretly bitter about some fanbase, and I can't even imagine who I'd have to resent.

>>91833862
Because Gotham is Anti Life Central of DC Earth. That shit was funded by worshipers of the God of Evil and Tyranny Darkseid.

>>91833418
Purity is an untenable idea in today's society that values degeneration as the tool of empowerment and validation.

>>91833997
This is a perfect example of what I meant by:
>>91834202

People are primed to see opposition and resistance as inherently validating of their character. Takes real guts to be a freak and all that. Conformity is the enemy. Homogeny is supression.

>>91834227
there have been plenty of stories where Superman has been anti-conformist/institution i.e. the various times Lex Luthor has become president

>>91834227
>People are primed to see opposition and resistance as inherently validating of their character. Takes real guts to be a freak and all that. Conformity is the enemy. Homogeny is supression.

Said the dying nation.

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>>91834089
go, clarky boy, go!

>>91833418
Come off it, dude, Superman's super popular. I say this as a Superfag myself, you guys have a persecution complex. He's consistently a top seller.

>>91834227
Yeah, turn the other cheek nigger.

Maybe you are one of those people who don't see their patterns unless they're laid out in front of them. I don't need to explain to you why conformity is bad, the idea of conformity as good has been debunked thousands of years ago.

>>91834360
>the idea of conformity as good has been debunked thousands of years ago.

that's why the best way to live is to do nothing but be contrarian in literally everything you do

Society wants me to wear clothes, bam, naked all the time

murder is 'illegal'? what a bunch of sheep!

You're a fucking idiot

>>91834400
Is this strawman that you just pulled out of your ass supposed to be an argument?

Are you American by any chance?

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>>91833862
>Why does Superman allow bad things to happen in Gotham?

Because Bruce is a dick.

>>91834227
>i'm saying this because there are things growing in popularity that i personally do not like
Degradation and rebellion has always been in humanity, friend. There were kids putting their baby siblings into ovens in the 20s, and they'll do it today only now in microwaves.

>>91834431
I'm just pointing out that a blanket statement of 'conformity is bad' is probably the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life, everyone conforms to something in thousands of different ways every single day of their life with no negative consequences

>>91834483
Nobody was saying that, just that 100% conformity shouldn't be considered the end all be all. Being in a box 24/7 goes against human nature. You come off as feeling attacked for whatever reason.

>>91834483
>with no negative consequences

To them.
Some people argued the same as you when they were advised that slavery is bad.

Of course I'm thankful for everything I have, I'm just not thankful enough to ignore all the shit around me, whether it affects me or not.

>>91833418
He's a fucking white male cis heterossexual raised in a rural enviroment in a red state.

>>91834536
Of course there are examples of conformity being bad, but there are infinitely more examples of it being neutral or positive

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>>91834550
Fuck off, Waid!

>>91833862
I've got a theory about this

Gotham is a shitty old place where no one but scum willingly lives, so it would make sense if there's just fuckin lead everywhere

The paint, the walls, the water, and I'm sure Bruce has found a way to turn the air into lead

Superman goes to Gotham and can't see shit

>>91834550
Did you just assume Superman's gender?

No, really did you? I can't tell. I don't know much about Kryptonian gender politics

>>91834576
This is the same guy that thinks racial profiling is wrong.
Legitimate statistics and all

>>91834040
I like Justice League Action but they only show that once a week at 6:00 am

WTF is this pseudo intellectual bullshit talk about in this thread. Every single one of you fucks is retarded. There isn't any complexity about his hate.

He looks like an old school boy scout fuckwit with every single powers out there that is played safely in other media.

Thanks to that he isn't relatable to a lot of stupid normies out there who do not have the capacity to enjoy stories about characters they can't wank off too as themselves.

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>>91834645
Fuck off, you...Double nigger!

>>91834583
For some reason this made me laugh

MERTTTTTTHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

SAVE MAURRTHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>91833418
He sold more merchandise than any marvel character last year outside Spiderman. You are retarded Op.

>>91834764
>question is about Superman
>starts blathering about Marvel

???

>>91834645
But he is popular, second best selling characters in DC, third best seller when it comes to merchandise, second best selling t shirts, etc.

>>91834799
Are you stupid? The point is that if you think that superman isn't popular it means no character outside batman and superman are popular. After ten years of media superman is still the third most popular superhero

>>91834814
Hey I'm just saying why some normies in the mainstream reality hate the guy not why he is popular. I am well aware he is popular. I like the guy too.

>>91834837
someone buying a shirt with the superman symbol on it doesn't mean he's popular, it just makes him iconic

>>91833997

Conformity to what? Society hasn't even been pretending to function by the standards he was written by since the 90s. He's a relic of a bygone age like Captain America, who was also thrown into the dumpster by Marvel for being incompatible with their current agenda.

Who still cares about truth, justice, and the American way in this day and age? Those are rules which bind people and force them to act fake feelings of pleasantness. People don't like rules, and they certainly don't like their enforcers.

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Superman sucks because I can't relate to him

Lex Luthor is better

>>91834874
And 20 something idiots on Facebook disliking him doesn't Mean he isn't.

>>91834905
>thrown in the dumpster
>chrisevanalaughing.gif

Marvel Comics are retarded.

The truth is people don't like Superman much because he hasn't really been done well in any recent normie media work. From "Muh Jesus Allegory" to "evil superman #842", Superman gets a bad wrap in supplementary movies/vidya/tv. I think JLU was the last truly good Superman character adaption outside of the DCAU direct comic adaptions, and even then he was a little too safe as a character outside of some rare hype moments.

If DC put time and effort into making Superman a more relatable and likable character in the public image, they could make Superman more popular. But his iconography sells like gamgbusters as is, so there's no need to focus on him when they could be jerking off the infinite money geyser that is the Bat-Cock.

>>91834939
I'm not petty, I don't have a small penis and I'm not balding I can't relate to Lex.

I'm a lanklet so I relate to plastic man

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>>91833418
>Second-best selling after Batman
>Unpopular

>>91835060
so let me ask you a question why is he so popular nowadays?

>>91834645
>with every single powers out there that is played safely in other media.
This is the real reason. People who don't know anything about Superman but think they do going around sprouting this nonsense

> 1. Batman (2016-) #21
> 2. Superman (2016-) #21
> 3. Secret Empire (2017-) #0
> 4. Justice League (2016-) #19
> 5. Trinity (2016-) #8
> 6. Super Sons (2017-) #3
> 7. All Star Batman (2016-) #9
> 8. Invincible #135
> 9. Injustice 2 (2017-) #2
> 10. Sex Criminals #18

An unpopular character that outsells the entire industry with a basic issue? If we are going this way, then the entire Marvel outside of Spider-Man in unpopular, since Superman sells more than the others.

Superman is unpopular among normies edgelords, the kind of guy who only has read Waypool in his entire life. People who bother reading like him.

>>91835444
>normies

/co/ needs its own word for this.

>>91833672
I forgot about this song. Love this band.

>>91833418

People are too cynical for Superman.

>>91833418
>unpopular
Dude's books are doing great and he's back in the public eye thanks to the movies (regardless of quality). He's probably in the best place he's been right now in over a decade; if the movies start to shape up and become more crowd pleasing he'll be unstoppable

>>91835028

Smallville was really good for Superman in that regard. It showed him as a very human and flawed characters who still managed to make boys relate and girls wet their panties.

>>91835718
Yeah this. I know plenty of guys in my school back then who watched smallville.

>>91833418
Superman is a boring character

>>91835718
>>91835943
Honestly, it was "Superman Returns" that fucked Superman's Zeitgeist.

Back in the day (first three seasons), Smallville was one of the biggest nerd series, second only to "Lost".

>>91836001
Who is an interesting character, anon?

>>91836033
Rainbow Dash

>>91836100
Barneyfags need not apply.

>>91836008
Atleast the superman zeitgeist is slowly recovering senpai

>looks at the FF and Spider-man

being a marvel fan these days is actually suffering

>>91836008
Superman Returns was truly bad yeah, you could tell they were trying to use it as a jumping off point for a DCEU alongside Nolan's Batman, but it drew poorly

>>91833418
What are you talking about? Superman is in one of his finest moments

>>91834096
I can't believe an adult man sit down a wrote that crap. It's even more unbelievable than adult men pay for this shit

>>91835444
Nobody read comics. Also the industry depend on the normies, the comic book sales are the most irrelevant part of the comic book industry.

Superman is the type of guy I can't ever be. I'm way too cynical and against rules. But yet I kind of find him inspiring. The thing is that his values are outdated. He is the same character in a different time.

>>91836469
It is a COMIC industry first and foremost. If Superman outsells everything Marvel and Superman is unpopular, then every character is unpopular.

>B-but the least common determinator prefer Marvel
This is really your fucking best answer?

>>91833418

Because DKR and shitty movies

>>91836598
Comics have been irrelevant since the crash on 1996. The Big 2 get their profit from licensing their IPs for games, TV shows, movies, etc.

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>>91833449

>And they tend to give Superman stories to bad, boring writers these days.

In fact, his stories are pretty interesting nowadays.

>>91836746
Comics nowadays make way more money than ever. Stop being casual. If they performance was indifferent than Marvel or DC wouldn't cancel books with low sales.

And you know that Superman does more money in merchandising than any MCU character, right? Since they do worse than him both in comics and menchan, they are incredible unpopular, right?

>>91833418
They aren't showing the animated series, and the latest movies don't make him very likeable.

>>91833418
Nobody can identify with someone who was simply raised into the perfect human being by loving, caring parents and who has literally every power under the sun. It doesnt make for very interesting storytelling so have a god as a protagonist with 3 weaknesses which are basically afterthoughts: magic, kryptonite, no yellow sun.

Also Superman was created over 60 years ago. The world was far, far less creative back then, the bar was low. Superman was made to say "Wouldnt it be neat if someone could lift a car and stuff?" He was the first Superhero. The first draft of anything isn't ever going to be fully thought out or perfect.

Also that was before TV and the internet. By now every idea humanity could have ever come up with has been shared in some form. What are the odds that some invincible white guy from a half-assed, half thought out concept would still be anyone's favorite superhero?

>>91836909
Then why he sells more than 99% of Marvel heroes?

>>91833418
Because superman stands for everything that is good.
and people today hate good things

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>>91833418
>Why is he so unpopular nowadays?
Just his image is being sullied, and that is unpopular. Hack Snyder indeed.

>>91833418
... Compared to who?
Superman is still the first thought of the term "superhero".
Comedy movie gonna have a generic big superhero full of powers? You bet he's gonna seem like a Superman parody.

It's a character that is recognized around the world.
A character who's death made national news.
A character who's movies still make hundreds of millions.

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>>91833418
I think the best comics Superman has ever been in are the ones where he is raised by other people instead of the Kents, mostly because it makes us imagine how much could a person with so much power change depending on where thy were raised and how were they raised.

Probably my favorite ones are Flashpoint Paradox Superman and the amish Superman one.

>>91837160
This

Superman is like the Mickey Mouse of Cartoons. When you think about Mickey Mouse you think animation, and cartoons. Everyone knows of him, and because of that it is contrarian to like him. More people know, and love Mickey Mouse than hate him. Superman is THE superhero icon. No one will ever replace him as that.

>>91835718
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj1-paS7vGE
heat vision hornyness is still canon in my mind

>>91837391
It is supposed to be one of his most energy using moves.

Which means he is basically going full orgasm for Solar Flares.

>Superbro storyarc is now about Superman getting stabbed in the balls mid orgasm, causing him to not be able to get an erection for about a year or so

>>91837176
I like how each version usually still has a lil bit of the Superman we know.
That he will always turn towards helping others and fighting evils.

Be he raised by communists, the El family, or even Hitler.
Except maybe radical alt Earths like Earth 3 or Superdemon Etrigan Earth.

>>91833418

Sjw demonizing the white male, masculinity, and pride for your country

>>91835507
Non readers?
>>91835676
>if the movies start to shape up and become more crowd pleasing he'll be unstoppable
I can't help but compare that to the current complaints about Marvel being wilfully bad.

>>91835093
Same reason he's always been popular.

Just a good guy trying to do good things. He's dependable and always saves the day.

>>91834449
Come on dude that page isn't fair and you know it. He was still missing superbro and didn't trust the new guy.

>>91838821
yeah sure buddy

>>91836563
I don't think his values are out of date.

Rather that they are out of style, Supermans values will be back. Right now Marxist values are going into style, it's probably no different then before. It'll go Marxist-vs-Reactionary, then go back to a less polarized Liberal-vs-Libertarian.

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>>91836909
>Nobody can identify with supes
I disagree, I can identify with supes.
>It doesnt make for very interesting storytelling so have a god as a protagonist
Explain Norse and Greek Mythology and their popularity then.

I'd highly encourage you to watch Grant Morrison's interview about Superman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzHgvqh8to

>>91833885
>Superman has his hands full
He's literally a godlike being and faster than the Flash, the only reason anything bad happens is because he allows it
Which is actually an interesting angle but no one will ever write it because Super autists would lose their shit

>>91833418
Because people who don't read comics think he's too powerful and therefore boring.

>>91833418
He really isn't. He's no longer at the top of the heap but that is far from being unpopular.

>>91841553
>faster than the Flash
t. casual America Chavez fan

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>>91841553
>He's literally a godlike being and faster than the Flash
If they were true there'd be no reason of even have The Flash around anymore.

>>91833418
because neocons won

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>>91841694
>>91841848
>no reason to have the Flash
Congratulations, you've hit the nail on the head when it comes to Supermans major problem as a character, thanks to decades of power creep when you really look at him he does invalidate most of DCs other heroes just by existing
A series exploring the fact that he could just stop anything bad from happening but chooses not to and why he makes that choice could be interesting but otherwise as he is he's a boring character and more of a prop in his stories, a depowering and never getting back up to being able to lift infinite universes again would go a long way towards making him endearing again

>>91842281
Are you really too dumb to understand when someone calls you a retard? Because I'll be clear, then: you're retard.

Fucking edgelords.

>>91840012
>Explain Norse and Greek Mythology and their popularity then
You mean the gods that are a reflection of humanity and have flaws like lust, jealousy and anger that make them multifaceted?

>>91842382
Let me ask you: how many Superman stories have you read?

You clearly doesn't know the character but is eager to share your opinions about something that you doesn't know, for some reason.

>>91842356
>b-but retard
So you can't counter any of those points, the simplest if them being Superman invalidates other heroes because of his power level
Just what I expected from a super autist, when push comes to shove they just reeeeeeee

>>91842495
I don't need to: you are wrong, retard.

>"S-Superman is faster than Flash"
>is proved wrong
>S-see, he is clearly faster than Flash

How do I counter it, retard? Just keep reading Deadpool.

>>91842435
You want me to just check off the standard list everyone's read? And are you seriously going to compare Superman to lets say Zeus in terms of complexity
Nice broken english by the way

>>91842537
So you literally have no argument, you couldn't even pull out the different writers excuse and have absolutely nothing to say about the complexity of Superman

>>91842281
Let me phrase that in a different manner.

Flash is faster than Superman.

>>91842618
I just asked if you have ever read any of his stories. You clearly have not, but wants to share your opinions on something that you doesn't know.

I can't talk about Huckleberry Finn. I never read it. Any five years old understand that.

>>91842666
My argument is: Superman is not faster than Flash.

An anon showed it to you and you didn't understand, you are, therefore, retarded.

Stop trying so har to appear intelligent. "YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENTS!" doesn't work when everyone but you can see that you are wrong.

>>91842705
So another non argument from a super autist insisting anyone with criticism hasn't read any Superman stories at all
Also you should check out Huckleberry Finn, it should only take you an afternoon to get through and it's a decent adventure story

>>91833862
Superman is wise enough to understand that Batman's ego is fragile.

>>91842826
If the retard thinks that Flash is faster than Superman, he clearly didn't read, retard.

Which comic book characters are well written in your opinion? You're gonna say fucking Dr. Doom?

>>91842761
>Anon says the Flash is faster and shows a page of the Flash pulling ahead
>I post a panel of Superman clearly catching the Flash
>You reeeeeeeeeeee about it and don't even point out how writing can be inconsistent since the characters get passed around so many different writers
Take_your_hurt_feelings_and_go.png

>>91842909
You can find similar pages of Captain Cold catching the Flash. The thing is: Superman isn't as fast as the Flash. Period. You can't do anything about it.

What you're saying about Superman could be said about Thor, Silver Surfer, Sentry. But you are an edgelord, therefore, retard.

Just keep reading Deadpool by Daniel Way.

>>91842868
This guy says Superman is faster
>>91843004
This guy says the Flash is faster

Who do you believe

>>91833418
Because people no longer believe in good. If superman existed he will form a militia and conquer some countries, not save people.
Batman in the other hand makes sense, some crazy guy who couldn't get over his trauma beating up people at night

>>91842382
>You mean the gods that are a reflection of humanity
How is Superman different?

You could easily say Superman is Hercules.

>>91843004
Do you even know what edge lord means, also nice marvel projection you have going there, still not an argument though

>>91843144
>How is Superman different?
He's to flawless, since you used Hercules as an example in a direct comparison both are of unmatched might but Hercules is of low intelligence, he lacks wisdom, is petty and holds grudges, gluttonous and lustful, feasting, drinking, and fucking whenever he pleases and is quick to resort to violence to get his way
Hell the various trials of Hercules were mostly him making penance for the things he's done
So yeah, aside from strength and loyalty to their friends Clark and Herc have very little in common

>>91843168
>nice marvel projection
lel
You should try Foolkiller, edgelord.

>>91843383
So you really don't know what edge lord means

>>91836949
>Then why he sells more than 99% of Marvel heroes?

Because only pathetic manbabies read comics. Normies just watch the shows and movies which filter out 99% of the retarded ass bullshit and keeping the stuff that's sort of half way interesting.

>>91843335
>Hell the various trials of Hercules were mostly him making penance for the things he's done

You mean murdering his family in a fit of rage caused by Hera?

>>91843335
Here I'd like to direct you to the Grant Morrison's interview once again. @7:24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VO9505oVkM

Superman isn't 1 old myth pagan god, he's a lot of them. Grant really equates Superman to Apollo. Maybe you are right, my Hercules equivalent is a very weak argument. But how does Superman not have a lot of similar characteristics to Apollo.

Besides characteristics of gods that are all powerful, Superman isn't the Abrahamic god that everyone seems to associate with when they hear the term god. There are others that can go against him.

>>91843858
Morrison really doesn't understand Apollo, charioting the sun across the sky was only one of his tasks and was more known in Greek culture as a god of music, prophecy, and for giving the science of medicine to man, thinking he was only a sun god is a shallow understanding

>>91843727
Yes, the 12 labors were taken on as penance and are probably the most well known Hercules story

>>91844163
Wasn't Morrison the guy behind >>91834096? I wouldn't take his opinions seriously about anything.

>>91844163
I think you've missed the essence of what Morrison is saying. He took Apollo and Hercules as things they represent and introduced them into Superman, he is a mixture of ancient gods, not the direct equal to these gods.

Apollo is Healer, protector of Evil, Sun god. Hercules, a man of the people.

Heracles, hope, unrelenting, live in the now, respect.

Apollo, healing from the sun, chases the darkness away, protector of good.

These are all essences of the myths. That is what Superman captures, not the direct history. But the essence.

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>>91844371
>on /co/
>advocate to not take Grant Morrison seriously
Do you know where you are?

>>91833418
DC and the First Crisis..

>>91844601
And half the things you listed they don't actually represent, I get the point you and Morrison are trying to make but misunderstanding your inspirations undermines that point and still doesn't address that part of what makes those characters interesting is their flaws while Superman is just the cherry picked good parts
Let's face facts, Clark is a mary sue that gets by on legacy, if he was created today and still written straight there would be a lot more criticism of the character

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>>91841694
>>91841848

>>91844601
taking the good and leaving the bad misses the point. He's only like the ancient gods in that he's a loose collection of their positive features. Why even bother making the comparison when you're missing the part that makes them interesting?

>>91841848
>running
Superman flies faster than he runs, and must limit his speed in an atmosphere because he doesn't have speed force hacks. His actual top speed is better than the Flash.

>>91844752
>>91844851
Alright, let me address the point then.

The point is that Superman is essentially all knowing god because of his super powers.

This is simply not correct. Even Alan Moore knows this, that's why the actual god he creates is omniscient (Doctor Manhattan), Superman is not omniscient, he doesn't know what is going to happen and everything that will happen. Clarke is essentially just like a Human, but he has super powers. He isn't the strongest thing to have ever exist, he isn't the smartest on the planet. But what he is, is someone who shows the world is that Absolute Power does not corrupt absolutely.

You say that my comparison to Hercules doesn't make sense, because Hercules gets challenged differently then Clarke. Hercules goes bad, and did bad things, so he clearly isn't the good comparison to Superman. Despite the fact that Superman basically, already had a similar story where he turned bad after his family was killed and just said "Fuck it, I'm taking over".

What about Clarke taking on the burden of earth and it's people. Saving Humanity can be paralleled by the tale of Sisyphus. Superman constantly has to uphold the burden of humanity only for the next conflict to arise that would mean starting over.

In the end, I think there really isn't much I can convince you that Superman is indeed a very interesting character, other then to actually recommend you some books that might change your mind. I think Kindcome come, Birthright, All-star superman would be my recommendations. If you aren't even interested in that, then I can't do much to convince you.

>>91833418
I think Superman's a great character but nobody knows how to write him in a way that shows off the best of his characterization. All Star Superman and the Christopher Reeve movies are what made me like him and nothing has really honed in on his true essence since. Zack Snyder just turned him into an emo cry baby who was more focused on beating up some random alien than actually trying to protect the only home he's known, fucker wasn't giving the whole hero thing his all in that movie.

>>91845550
>Sisyphus
Bad comparison again, Sisyphus was being punished for self aggrandizing craftiness, generally deceitful ways, and killing travelers and guests in his kingdom which was something Zeus took note of, what for him chained to the rock and forced to push it up the hill was proclaiming he was smarter than Zeus, he should have asked Lycaon what happens when you piss off Zeus

>>91846165
I'm talking about Camus's Myth of Sisphys.

>>91845765
The best Superman stories have huge events going on and grand villains and borderline cosmic themes but at the same time they have wholesome family elements and moments where Superman is just a really good guy doing quintessential hero shit. He's literally the simplest character to write you just need a colorful imagination. Honestly kids would be the best at coming up with a good Superman story.

And interestingly most of the good Superman stories are solo titles. I honestly feel like having Superman in a shared universe is detrimental to his character because they have to change him and reign him in to fit in with the other characters.

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>Everyone in this thread saying "his ideals are outdated"

>>91847435
literally no one in this thread is saying his ideals are outdated and in fact one of the reasons people don't like MoS and BvS is because those movies don't represent the ideals he represents so often in the comics

>>91836793
Yaya, I would say the problem is merely people who know superman by cultural osmosis. Much like Aquaman, everyone thinks they know the character and has made up their minds without ever reading any material featuring the character. Just listem to them going on and on about how Superman is too powerful, when Superman has been getting his ass handed to him by all kinds of villains since the 80's, at the very least.

>>91847490
>literally no one in this thread is saying his ideals are outdated

>>91834202
>>91834645
>>91836563
>the thing is that his values are outdated

>>91833997
>he's a beacon of conformity

>>91834905
>who still cares about truth, justice and the American way in this day and age?

>>156377482
He was trying catch wally he away flying, he was still left behind.

>>91847604
>who still cares about truth, justice and the American way in this day and age?
wow its almost like he EXPLICITLY QUOTED THE COMIC as bait you retard

>>91833997
>fights against every injustice
>beacon of hope for a better, brighter future
>conformity

I'm sorry anon, but you're clinically retarded

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>>91833418
He's had a goody two shoes stigma in the public cousnious for decades now.

Turning him into a brooding, "why me god" fag without a hint of charisma is just making it worse.

And for the record, as much as I hate Snyder, WB tried the same characterization 10 years prior with Superman Returns.

>We're too cynical to appreciate Superman nowadays.
Which is horseshit given how popular Chris Evan's Captain America is.... which is as far as personality goes, how they should have treated Supes in the movies. Serious, open to discussion, but not hesitating to jump into action and with a slight hint of levity.

>>91848015
god of murder

>>91848015
>Which is horseshit given how popular Chris Evan's Captain America is.... which is as far as personality goes, how they should have treated Supes in the movies. Serious, open to discussion, but not hesitating to jump into action and with a slight hint of levity.
You make sense... no retard or autist for you.

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>>91848015
The problem with Returns wasn't even Supes' characterization, it was the fact that Singor seemed to think we wanted a Lois & Son movie rather than, you know, a fucking Superman picture.

>>91848119
Rebirth has proven that people do want Superman with a family. They just didn't want a Dead-Beat Superdad.

>>91834090
What the fuck? Superman's fairly well liked. Kenshiro is still a popular character, years after his manga ended.

>>91844631
The guy can be full of shit sometimes.

Because people are more cynical and jaded nowadays. Superman being raised by white cisgender Protestant farmers in Kansas doesn't exactly endear him to SJWs despite the fact Superman has always been progressive.

Also the Jesus analogy to Superman (which is bullshit in my opinion because Christian tenets decry humanity for its sin, Superman is all about seeing the good in humanity and wants to emulate their best qualities so that they don't need him anymore) also pisses off a lot of atheist and anti-Christian circles.

Or the fact that he's this powerful being that always does good doesn't make him compelling as a hero on a lower scale of power who has to struggle. I don't agree with this line of thought, but it's generally what casuals criticize about Superman.

>>91848608
Batman is a rich white cisgender male and he's more popular than ever.
Hell, the MCU is a white male only club and tumblr love them. Disney's massive media empire may have something to do with it but still

At the end, capes are just childish power fantasies and Superman isn't that appealing anymore. Captain America has his super steroids for giving hope to bullied nerds and Batman has the "I can be Batman too if I have the money" bullshit but Supes stayed behind.

>>91833418
I thought it was the opposite: Superman is popular nowadays because everyone's burnt out on the excessive amounts of Batman movies, TV shows, and video games that flooded the media.

>>91848015
Except Cap's whole schtick was BEFORE he gained his powers, he already had the makings of a self-less upstanding human being.

Despite getting the shit kicked out of him, he never gave up against the bullying soldier. He didn't want to enlist to kill people, he just wanted to stop oppression because he didn't like bullies.

He pulled his weight in basic training despite being the weakest and shortest, but he also showed the brains and common sense with that flag pole scene.

Most of all, the grenade moment. That took a fuckton of guts and it proved that Steve Rogers already had the makings of a hero.

Remember the conversation that Erskine had with Steve before the procedure? About how a weak man who understand the value of what strength is and the value of compassion. The Super-Soldier Serum amplified what was already innate in Steve; courage and iron-resolve. He just needed the physical gifts to balance out the intangibles.

Lastly, the Super-Soldier procedure showed that Steve was willing to risk certain death or become even more of a freakshow than he was. Despite the pain that he was in, he was committed to seeing it all the way through.

Captain America wasn't the lone savior of the world in Marvel's WW2. He was the guy that wanted to save the men who risked their life and limbs against tyranny. And for that, he became an Olympian in physique and stature yet still retained his good nature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZNWWg0Q__U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4C7IAmiUgs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9HCqnBcm8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ2sPHpou98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4EF0kzKCc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdgrOdVBjBU

I like Superman as much as Cap, but the comics and movies make it a point that we care about Steve Rogers the man BEFORE the iconic hero. Casuals don't give a crap about Clark Kent despite being the real identity. Like Lois & Clark once said, "Superman is what I do, but Clark is who I am."

>>91849033
Capes are male adolescent wish fulfillment. Bullied nerds can fantasize with injecting steroids and getting huge muscles without lifting but being a space baby is too much

>>91849139
Except bullied nerds are rarely as good-natured like Steve Rogers. Any bullied nerd that gains the body and physical attributes of MCU Steve would abuse the fuck out of it. They'd get revenge on their former tormentors by beating the crap out of them and generally being an even worse shithead the their bullies.

And Steve DOES train. He's a blade that has to be honed and sharpened so that he's combat-ready.

Not to mention, Steve is more concerned about trying to save people and finding his place in a timeline that he can't relate to.

So you're right that Steve Rogers is fantasy because very few humans would use those gifts to defend those from harm.

>>91834089
WHAT is Rhis pic from enquiring minds want to l

>>91849033
>Except Cap's whole schtick was BEFORE he gained his powers, he already had the makings of a self-less upstanding human being.
Sure, but here's the thing: until the early 2000s where DC and shows like Smallville really started to push the lonely survivor alien angle, Superman never needed a reason to be self-less.

He did the right thing simply because it was the right thing to do.

>>91849139
Bullied Nerds tend to latch onto the Supervillain, or complex misunderstood anti heroes. Capes like Superman and Captain America have way too much self control and moral high ground to get revenge on bullies.

>>91849299
Everyone is the hero of his/her own story. /r9k/ is full of "nice guys" after all

>>91849389
Superman is the other side of the spectrum in this debate over a powerless man who has the potential for heroism and a developing alien whose powers slowly pick up as the years go by. So it's Nature vs Nurture as well as a combination of the 2 depending on you interpret them.

Clark was lucky to be raised by the Kents, a salt-of-the-Earth couple who had the foresight to raise their adopted son with good morals. Ever read the backstory of the Kent family? Jonathan Kent's ancestors were upstanding people with convictions and courage so no surprise their descendant turned out well.

Instead of being embittered and lashing out in the world for his ailment, young Steve Rogers always kept a positive attitude and pursued his love for art. Meanwhile, Kal-El was raised by loving parents in a small town (which was fortunate as fuck for any incidents where Clark's powers would go off since you can't get away with that in a city). But what if he had been adopted by somebody else or the Kents weren't good people?

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>>91849618
>But what if he had been adopted by somebody else or the Kents weren't good people?

>>91849603
Exactly. Bullied nerds would end up like Syndrome from The Incredibles if they had a taste of power.

>>91849609
Solipsism at its finest. Even the term "nice guy" is cringeworthy.

Nice comes off as sickening false. You're just doing semi-decent things out of an expectation to attain validation or a reward due to misguided expectations of society.

Being a kind or benevolent person actually means you do possess altruism and good will towards anyone regardless if you're acknowledged for it. True character is doing something noble without anyone else knowing that you did it. What you are in the dark is the real essence of your character and bullied nerds are bound to be hideous in their depravity and outlook.

>>91849618
Clark would still be a good person if raised be terrible people unless the parents were trying to raise him to be a tool for revenge, or soldier from birth. The only way Clark would turn evil is if he was never shown kindness or love from his peers for a very long time.

>>91833418

Sincerity is dead. People in general hate sincere things - things that try to be legitimately uplifting and inspiring - because the media has spent decades glorifying antiheroes and assholes. Our society no longer accepts the existence of superhero characters like Superman unless they are assholes. If a superhero is a force for good, they have to be an asshole about it or they're seen as "corny" or "outdated".

Nobody likes a sincerely good person, fictional or otherwise, because we have all been taught to think such a person is just an asshole in disguise.

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>>91849798
What if Clark grew up in Hub City? That shit is worse than even Gotham and would make anyone jaded.

>>91849762

>True character is doing something noble without anyone else knowing that you did it.

Which makes the whole idea of dressing up in a costume, putting a logo on everything from the costume to weaponry, and creating an entire persona with which to fight crime and stop heinous things from happening all the more ironic. Superheroes are fucking narcissists, the whole lot of 'em.

>>91849930
this right here is the ultimate tragedy of the human race.

>>91849930
>because the media has spent decades glorifying antiheroes and assholes
QFT

The thing I respect the most about the recent Logan movie is that it examines what happens when one of those edgy characters from comics becomes old. It's like glorifying thug life; sure it looks glamorous with the money, jewelry, street cred and respect but you're either going to end up dead or in prison. Very few people live happily ever after.

>or they're seen as "corny" or "outdated".
Blame 90's nilhists and all that other shit that got popularized in that decade. Being an earnest person is seen as being pretentious and fake by coffee-sipping eye-rolling smartasses that decree that everything in life is corporate sociopathy at its finest and they somehow are "above" it all.

He's unpopular with normies that don't understand him because they are dense.

People who say he's not relatable are ones that either don't understand what he's about or they never tried to relate to supes.

>>91850078
What's worse is that trying to legitimately do something good pisses off others because they think you're trying to "one-up" them and in turn, try to sabotage you or hijack your intentions for their own ideology.

>>91850023
With the exception of those who are street level like Batman or Daredevil (their disguises and modus operandi are ideal for creating urban legends and terrifying criminals), some heroes wear costumes to be an iconic symbol of hope like the Flash for instance. Never-ceasing and blitzes as crimson lightning, they represent a constancy in Keystone/Central Cities that justice will always prevail there.

But yeah, quite a few capes are narcissists, but then again this IS dealing with books being sold by publishers for manchildren who want flashy outfits.

>>91848758
Superman is more popular than captain America

>>91833418

He's way more popular today than in the 90s though

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>>91833418
People are starting to realise he is over hyped and that his powers/power level are badly written.
"He can bench press the earth and can't be harmed" over and over is dull. How many times have they had to send him out of the galaxy so that he doesn't insta squash what ever story villain is fighting in the DC Universe?line

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>>91833418
I like him. He's a man with godlike powers who chooses to bind himself to mankind and serve them and uphold their laws and safety. He doesn't have to be Superman, he could be a rich guy exploiting his powers for major dough, but he doesn't.
And I like his dog. Superman being a dog guy makes him a little more alright in my book.

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HES JUST SOME FRAGGIN GOODY-GOODY BOYSCOUT BASTICH WHO WEAR A FRAGGIN BABY BLANKET

>>91836033
Corto Maltese

>>91854308
Can I get the next page?

>>91837160
You're right that he's still very much a cultural icon, but I suspect what OP is really after is why Superman isn't number 1 anymore like he used to be.

He is the best thing about DC Rebirth at the moment, in my opinion.

The world is an absolute shit hole at the moment, we need a hero like Superman more than ever.

>>91833418
Because people don't care much about superheroes anymore OP

>>91833418
He's in a tough spot because nobody can agree about how he should be portrayed.

Superman has always been a terrible character.

>Readers can't relate to him
>Wildly overrated and generally terrible villain stable
>Written more inconsistently than Batman
>Walking Deus Ex Machina for the DC universe
>Failed Flagship film franchise

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>>91843105
This. Superman is a artifact of a brighter, more optimistic, time in American history. Back then Superheroes were just saving the day because it was the right thing to do. Now you can't swing a dead cat without hitting three dozen or so edge lords and transvestite self inserts.

>>91843105
Who then masters every martial art, becomes a master detective, engineer, creates a massive cave system under his mansion secretly, wile managing his company really well, and maintaining his playboy persona.
So realistic

Am I a normie if my favourite hero is Superman?
He's just so damn loveable.

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>>91856080
No, Superman loves you too

>>91855797
Wonder Woman has it even worse.

There's no room for the character of Superman in a PostModern superhero world.

DC should essentially 86 the Silver Age versions of all their major heroes. Nobody likes them, they are not interesting, all are stale characters.

>The worst mistake DC ever made was bringing back Superman after they killed him off
>The second worst mistake DC ever made was bringing back Barry Allen

There is a reason TDKR was so popular, as well as the reboot of BSG. People want dark, they want nitty gritty flawed characters that they can relate to.

>>91856276
True.

>>91833418

>Why is he so unpopular nowadays?

Because he's an illegal immigrant. If Trump could, he'd build a space wall, and make Krypton pay for it.

>>91856621
How can a dead planet pay for anything? However, there's a million perfectly fine planets in DC sending all their criminals to earth that should get their asses handed to them.

>>91856908

>How can a dead planet pay for anything?

To follow a similar line of reasoning, how would Trump get Mexico to fund his wall?

>>91833418
>Why is he so unpopular nowadays?
Someone hasn't been keeping up.

>>91857433
Redirection of monetary aid, decrease in inter-government programs, and tariffs.

>>91856621
He'd qualify as a refugee due to Krypton being destroyed, being a foundling with no surviving family, and the remaining government figures of Krypton (Zod) attempting to have him killed.

>>91833418
Edgefags

>>91833418

I've been reading comic books for a long time (since I was a kid) and I actually used to find Superman to be a pretty boring character, something about him just didn't click for me.

It was watching Batman v Superman which finally made the character click for me and it's that Superman - at his core - is optimism given perfection. Superman sacrifices his life to save the earth and the woman he loves, but even death isn't strong enough to defeat Superman. Superman will return (and I don't mean in a Jesus way) because he has hope in a way far greater than any other fictional character I can think of. Superman is the anthropomorphisation of optimism.

>>91843335
>but Hercules is of low intelligence, he lacks wisdom

No he doesn't you fucking idiot. At least two of his labours are achieved through the use of his wits.

Sure in modern culture he's sometimes portrayed as a dumb brute, but within Greek myth he wasn't.

>>91849762
>and bullied nerds

I was a bullied nerd and I didn't let it effect my worldview. A big part of that was having older (out of highschool) friends in my formative (mid to late teen) years though.

And just learning that malice and bullying are things assholes use, like the assholes who bullied me.

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>>91849930

This is a really valid point. Sincerity is fucking dying and it's really fucking sad.

What's with the weird form of edge in this thread, all these anons insisting the world is a bleak terrible place where everyone wants to tear down everything good and then they unironically call others edge lords when they sound like kids at hot topic

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>>91857854

Huh. Well, I'll be damned.

>Superman is the anthropomorphisation of optimism

I really started to appreciate Superman more the least few years, to the point I like casually reading or watching him more than Batman, but I thought it was purely down to getting older. I think that's still a factor, but what you said made perfect sense.

And somehow, Man of Steel and Batman v Superman (and even Injustice) were a massive part of the trigger. They showed what he has been through (and what he could have become, with different choices) and how he still makes the right choices. Retains that spark of optimism. Of goodness.

Nicely put anon.

>>91839260
But it makes him more of a dick now for rejecting Superdad when it reality he was just another half of Superbro.

>>91856403
>Nobody likes them, they are not interesting, all are stale characters.
And somewhat Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Flash all sell better than Marvel.

Nobody likes Marvel, is that what are you saying?

>>91859843

No problem my man.

>>91858397
his world, is pretty small... only white girls and her mom

fucking murderman, he didnt even bother to save any others

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>>91859843
I feel that this page sums up superman, always gives me those feelz, that's a lot considering I am not and never was suicidal.