'No one stays good in this world'

>>91831199
What is his face trying to convey? Seriously.

>>91831281
Disgust at himself

>>91831199
Cavill has a look
He's a terrible Superman otherwise

>>91831199
that's muh Superman. So deep.

>>91831369
Just because Cavill's portrayal lacks the charm, competence, warmth, communication skills, and whimsy of the Superman you're used to doesn't mean he's a bad portrayal, just a different one, like Miracleman, or Sentry.

>>91831199
Was that a line from the movie?

>>91831369
>>91831410
Plus it's wrong to blame Cavill for the way the character was written.

>>91831513
Technically we can blame him. Since Snyder settles characterization disputes with push up contests, it means that either Cavill didn't disagree, or he was too weak to protest.

>>91831281
visible confusion
a need to go to the bathroom
forgetting how to undo the buttflaps on the super suit

>>91831369
Blame that to Snyder, Goyer and Terrio.

>>91831369
Most other incarnations of Superman exist in universes where the general populace is inhumanly welcoming towards alien demigods. Cavillman doesn't, and so he's sad about it. Doesn't stop him from being Superman as fuck through his actions.

>>91831585
The populace being unwelcoming is a result of his own cowardice and social skills that are atrophied to the point of uselessness.

>>91831624
no, are you dumb? the first thing he did was hand himself over and give an interview, and bruce even says there are lots of articles written about him. You are just autistic, just because he tries to portray himself in a certain light doesnt mean everyone is going to buy it. Do you really think if Superman were to appear in our world we would just all be welcoming of him?

>>91831624
>He seriously thinks people wouldnt have split, outrageous, and firm opinions about a super powered alien coming to earth


What is wrong with you, boy?

I will never understand why people thought shit like Civil War and Doctor Strange was awesome but this was terrible.

>>91831410
> Saves 7-8 billion people repeatedly...
> Lacks competence...

>>91831642
>the first thing he did was hand himself over and give an interview,
That was already too late.
The thing you overlook is that Clark was too afraid to stand out to get the initiative or the first impression. By the time he shows up to hand himself over, Zod has already poisoned public opinion by threatening literally the entire planet. What good is an interview going to do after that?

>>91831649
>m-muh realism

>>91831624
Staying hidden for years to not risk causing society to fall apart from the relevations your existence would bring isn't cowardice, it was a selfless sacrifice for the greater good.

>>91831661
>can't stop a bad guy without thousands of people dying
>can't make people like him without dying himself
you're right he a good boy he didnu nuffin

>>91831669
so then you do have some understanding for why people arent accepting of superman off the bat then, good.


Also an interview does lots of good, at least half the world thinks positively of him.

And he wasnt afraid to stand out and give the first impression, Zod just came before he could really. It was a double edged sword, him activating his ship and getting his suit attracted Zod to earth.


And its not like he waited to reveal himself, the timing just sucked.

>>91831687
It's such a self fulfilling prophecy is what it's practically Oedipal.

>>91831281
It's the face of interacting with someone who hasn't showered in months.

>>91831410
He had plenty of charm & warmth in his scenes with Lois.
Even the scene at the bar when he puts his hand on the guys shoulder it came off as more of a friendly "come on bro chill out" then a act of intimidation.

>>91831680
>all fantasy has to be completely devoid of realism

Sad!

>>91831708
no it isnt

>>91831669
There is nothing wrong with giving us a Superman who goes public under harsh unideal circumstances.
Once again your wanting him to go everything perfectly and literally predict the fucking future apparently.

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>>91831369
>Superman is always whimsical all the time in every iteration ever and cant be written any other way

casual pls leave

>>91831707
"half" is pretty generous and it doesn't actually change the point that he could win over more hearts and minds if he did more PR work than floating off looking austere and unknowable.

But no, even though humans are social creatures and Snyderman totally isn't a god we swear, he's gotta be a standoffish deified figure floating off in the heavens. Mixed messages? Certainly not! This is KINO!

>>91831715
>He had plenty of charm & warmth in his scenes with Lois.
That's not where it's needed but sure keep acting like the bath tub scene is all he needs.

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>>91831281

>>91831281
>His smile and optimism : Challenged.

>>91831725
>If people discover aliens they'll flip out so I'll hide
>Evil alien comes in, issues utimatiums, now everyone hates me!
>Why can't I win them over?!
Let's see, in order to avoid an unsavory fate he acts in such a way that he encourages said fate to happen to him anyway. You're right. That's not a self fulfilling prophesy and this totally isn't a tragedy.

>>91831708
How? If Clark had revealed himself 5 years earlier, what fucking good what it have done? Zod would have still come, and shit would have still gone down. The only arguable benefit would be that Clark would have mastered his abilities a bit more.

>>91831715
>That awkward pause during the bathtub scene when Lois asks them about their relationship

Holy God it was horrible are you high?

>>91831696
>can't stop a bad guy without thousands of people dying
The thousands didn't die during their 1 on 1 fight, they died while he was on the opposite side of the planet saving 7-8 billion other lives.
Superman can do many things but he can't be in 2 places at once especially not on opposite sides of the planet.

>>91831743
>implying people liked IC once they calmed down from the hype

>>91831750
but he has done that, like I said, the very first thing he did was an interview and Bruce even talks about how there has been lots of newspaper coverage on Superman.


I dont know why you think him just talking to people would change people's minds. It didnt change Luthor's mind, it didn't change the general's mind, it didn't even change Batman's mind (Lois had to back him up and vouch for him). Show me a single panel of someone's mind about Superman being changed after he talks to them.


Like if OJ Simpson came up to you and had a conversation would you suddenly think he was innocent and change your mind about him? If Jesus Christ himself came up to a believer and said he wasnt the messiah would they just stop believing? No, they wouldnt.


Stop being autistic.

>>91831742
>There is nothing wrong with giving us a Superman who goes public under harsh unideal circumstances.
I absolutely agree. It just sucks that those circumstances are a result of his own cowardice and hypocritical recklessness.

>I need to hide or something might go wrong!
>I'll activate this space ship! What could possibly go wrong!?

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>>91831743
>Superman should be mopey and dark all the time because of that one time he let loose and got real angry, even though that scene wouldn't have any impact if he wasn't usually a good-natured boy-scout.

I want idiots to leave

>>91831718
>realism is inherently cynical
Well I guess it does make sense that they started pandering to the Hot Topic set.

>>91831757
Wasn't talking about the bath tub scene.

Has it ever bloody occurred to you that Snyder has written his lack of public communication as being a actual mistake Clark is making in story?

>>91831791
>I dont know why you think him just talking to people would change people's minds.
I don't know why you guys think I think he should just talk. You keep going "actions speak louder!" but what's helping to rebuild after a fight? What's visiting cancer patients? Are those not actions as well?

>OJ Simpson
Oh it's you! I remember you from last thread.

>>91831774
its not though, you dont seem to know what that means. He doesnt even know who he is yet or how to present himself to the world. He doesnt even know what kind of alien he is really. Once he has that information and a way of showing himself he was ready to do it, he finally found a way to engage with the world. But then Zod comes, somehow he should have predicted this according to you, and he doesnt get the change to.


That isnt self fulfilling, its just bad timing. And idk where you are even getting this idea of Superman from, no version of him (outside of Superboy) has him announcing himself to the world as a superhero before he gets his suit or learns about his father. And even then he was still saving people from the shadows, which is more than Reeves man ever did. He LITERALLY hid from the world and learned from an AI for his young adult life.

>>91831774
HE CAN'T SEE THE FUCKING FUTURE.

>>91831781
Wasn't talking about the bath scene.

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>>91831798
>mopey and dark

Nah, I like my superman full of hope and inspiration. Thank god for Snyder.

also

>thinking the opposite of whimsy is dark and brooding
>thinking snyderman is dark and brooding

The one time he broods, after a major terrorist attack in reaction to his presence, he gets over it by meditating on a fucking mountain. Whats dark about that?

>>91831791
>Show me a single panel of someone's mind about Superman being changed after he talks to them.
I actually have a panel like that but I can't remember where it's from. Maybe someone else can help me out

It's got the entire Justice League coming to a disaster site and the civilians are yelling at them for not coming sooner and Superman takes one of them aside and talks to him in the background and after a page they part after shaking hands. Anyone know what that's from?

>>91831804
no one is saying realism is inherently cynical except you, you just cant think otherwise because you are brainwashed by cartoons. Also have you seen hot topic recently?

http://www.hottopic.com/

>Star wars
>princesses
>weebshit

oh yeah really dark and brooding. Get out of your basement.

>>91831814
It has. Which is why I find it hilarious that when I say it's fucking stupid of him you people crawl out of the woodwork to go "it wouldn't matter anyway!"
Just like how it's fucking hilarious how you go "realistically the opinions on superman would be split!" but if I speak negatively about him you can't stop whining. I'm your split opinion and you can't handle it.

>>91831794
IT'S NOT FUCKING COWARDICE to not risk thousands of lives and potential global wars just to be a gloryslut & go public.

It's hundreds of thousands of years old, there is no reason on fucking earth to think any thing would result from it.
And leaving it for the army to reverse engineer for decades would be just as reckless.

>>91831823
>what's helping to rebuild after a fight? What's visiting cancer patients? Are those not actions as well?

by that logic, Reevesman is just as bad as Snyderman because he doesnt do any of that shit either.


>Oh it's you! I remember you from last thread.

And you still dont have a good answer for it! Amazing!

Please stop being autistic.

Why are people coming up with all these dumb plot reasons for why Superman doesn't just hold a press conference and set everything straight? The real reason is that he's a metaphor for God and God can't just hold a press conference.

>>91831824
>Once he has that information and a way of showing himself he was ready to do it, he finally found a way to engage with the world.
Literally all he did was put on a different set of clothes. You'd have a point if they bothered to spend any time on the whole "adopt a secret identity so you can be a part of humanity half the time" thing but they skipped over that part of his arc entirely.

>>91831853
well by your logic, Reeve's Superman is shit too because he never changes anyone's mind by talking to them. In fact by stopping to talk to Luthor he gets Lois killed.

>>91831833
If he can't see the future why was he so sure that humanity would ABSOLUTELY go bonkers if he went around saving lives?

Oh wait. JONATHAN could see the future. That's it, right?

>>91831867
>i'm a mature adult and i hate cartoons
get the fuck off the comics and cartoons board then. I'm sure there's a foot thread on /tv/ for you.

>>91831869
Just because it is a mistake doesn't mean he is worthy of scorn or mockery.
He is doing what he thinks as right, he believes staying above the fray of politics & the media is the right thing to do.

The worse problem is you treating him being written this was a incompetent writing on Snyder's part... no SUPERMAN IS ALLOWED TO BE FUCKING FLAWED.

>>91831887
>Literally all he did was put on a different set of clothes.

What? No. He also found what race he was, where he came from, who is dad was, etc.

>You'd have a point if they bothered to spend any time on the whole "adopt a secret identity so you can be a part of humanity half the time" thing

What do you mean? Thats never been part of his "arc." In the original Superman movie Jor-El just tells him to do it and he does it, it was never part of his arc. He got no character growth from it outside of meeting and falling for Lois. He has never been like Batman where he lives two separate lives as a superhero and a man, he is the same, bringing his passion for justice into both parts of his life. Hell, the current Superman comics exemplify that part exceptionally.

>>91831879
>Reevesman is just as bad as Snyderman because he doesnt do any of that shit either.
He puts the roof on the white house on back after Zod knocks it off in Superman 2. Then he promises the president not to let the people down again.

>>91831906
I love cartoons, I just dont think realism is inherently cynical and dont see tones as black and white.

>>91831879
I answered you last thread. Go check the archive.
>>91831883
To be fair he did hold press conferences, off camera, in between movies, but they didn't work because reasons. Fuck you it's art.

>>91831921
I was just talking about Superman: The Movie anon, because if we are going to use multiple movies then we got to wait for Cavil's entire career as Superman before making any judgement calls. If we are going with the logic that "well he hasnt done it YET so he isnt a good Superman" then Reeves was a terrible Superman in Superman: The Movie.

>>91831931
>I answered you last thread. Go check the archive.

No, you just said "isnt it fucked up that you can compare OJ to Superman?"

thats a non-answer.

>>91831892
Is Reeve Superman even Post-Crisis?
Pre and Post Crisis are basically different characters.

And why are you treating Reeve like the gold standard anyway?

>>91831883
>>91831931
because a press conference would just set everything straight.... are you retarded? When has that ever worked in real life. Tell me, when has a press conference changed the entire public's opinions 100%?

>>91831895
Because it is a perfectly reasonably conclusion when you live in a realistic world close to the hell hole we live in which is what this was intentionally going for.
It's meant to be Superman by way of X-men.
I doubt ether of them were absolutely sure that such would happen but it's too big of a issue to just blindly risk it.

>>91831913
>superman is allowed to be flawed
>d-don't you dare make fun of those flaws though!
My sides. They are in orbit.

>>91831949
that has nothing to do with this, you are dodging the question. You are saying Cavil was bad because he didnt change people's minds by talking to them, so by that logic you must think Reeves was a bad Superman too.

>>91831939
Moving the goalposts already I see. We've got two movies of each to compare.

>>91831895
because that is what would normally happen, read Secret Identity you casual. This isnt even like made up for the movie, these are ideas present in the comics.

>>91831972
>if he doesnt do the exact thing I want by the second movie he is a bad Superman

what a shitty standard you've set for yourself. And Snyderman has saved more people than Reeveseman has. He saved the world, twice.

>>91831943
Check the archive. I asked the same question I asked now about how he could do some altrusitic charity ACTIONS or clean up his messes.

Granted it seems that just leads to you going "b-but reeve didn't do it!" so I guess you have no actual argument as to why it's not a good idea.

>>91831972
>He doesn't know what moving the goal posts means

Learn. English.

> Comic book Superman lands in school yard full of kindergarden kids
> Kids come up to Superman and get hugs and taken flying
> He brings them back safely and everyone loves Superman

> MoS Superman Superman lands in school yard full of kindergarden kids
> Kids run away screaming
> Superman looks confused, sad, and doesn't understand why the world looks at him like a piece of shit
> Even though it's broad day light and the sun is shining, everything is dark and grey and needs spotlights or floodlights to be seen

This is why.

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>>91831986
> he could do some altrusitic charity ACTIONS

You mean like saving people from floods and fires? You mean like saving the world? You mean like pic related?

>>91831964
Yeah, I kind of do. I think Reeve was much closer but didn't quite hit the mark of a modern Superman. Honestly Routh did an okay job too; that plane rescue was top notch.

But the idea is that Snyder's supposed to be doing a better job than Donner. Or are we content to just repeat the same mistakes over and over?

>>91832015
I'm just saying your highly specific standard for what makes a good Superman is ridiculous and the epitome of "not muh." Go read more comics, there are lots of versions and takes on Superman that are all good and valid.

>>91831994
The only difference you've pointed out is how the people react to him.
Which was the point of BvS.

Now that he sacrificed himself for humanity, people see what he's willing to do for them and that he's not a god and will embrace him a bit more.

>>91832005
I get that people want to actually see those parts, but that's not the aspect of Superman that Snyder is interested in.

>>91831953
>Because it is a perfectly reasonably conclusion
So "people will chimp out and jihad in the streets" is reasonable, but "I should be careful in this 1000+ year old space ship" requires literal future sight?

That just sounds like a double standard. Realistically, in the real world, you have to be careful when you explore sunken human ships. A few years ago they found a doctor's room on one that was filled with viable smallpox samples.

>>91832040
What? But all of that happened in the movie...? You aren't making any sense, its past your bedtime kid.

>>91831657
Because for all those flaws those movies were actually entertaining to watch.

>>91832005
No actually. I mean feel good PR stuff like throwing the opening ball at a Metropolis Meteors game or doing a celebrity style pop in at a children's hospital. Or having coffee with first responders. Grassroots stuff, not big shows disaster relief that just lends to more god worship. Having him play with sick kids shows he can be trusted not to abuse his power. Having him at a ball game humanizes him in a way that floating away once the crisis is averted does not.

>>91832047
>"people will chimp out and jihad in the streets"

What? Why do you assume that? What a silly conclusion. He was obviously worried about government spying (which they tried to do), huge religious shifts (which happened), and other things (like people like Lex Luthor devoting their resources to killing Superman).


There are tons of possible bad things that could come from Superman revealing himself, all perfectly reasonable. Go read Secret Identity, it covers a lot of this stuff.

>>91832064
Hey I liked the movie dude, but I get that people wanted to see Superman save the cat out of the tree and have a kid go "Gee thanks Superman!", not Superman wrestling with the moral implications of his place on earth.

>>91832065
They really werent.

>>91832029
Yeah see guys like you just go "read more comics" and then I do and I keep finding more comics that are the complete opposite of this trash. So maybe you should recommend one specifically.

Or hey post them since you seem to have them in mind and you're so sure of yourself.

>>91832065
Hey I'll admit that some of the MCU films are entertaining but Civil War is a massive bore, and Doctor Strange is so paint by numbers that it barely even registers.

>>91832076
But the world wasnt at a point where they could accept him like that. He wouldnt just be allowed to throw the opening ball at a baseball game because look what happened when he attended a senate hearing: a terrorist blew it up. Imagine if someone tried to blow up the children's hospital he was at, or if the ground where he had that coffee becomes holy ground for those that think of him as the messiah.


You wanted Superman to exist in a more idealized world, and now that he has died to show everyone who he is, the world will become more like that.

>>91832079
>huge religious shifts
That's the jihad in the streets part.
And where exactly did that happen?

>Go read Secret Identity
The series that gave us Superboy-Prime. Of course you'd recc that. I'm not sure if this is irony but it is amusing all the same.

>>91832076
If you actually read the articles, he does smaller stuff like help a starving homeless man in the woods. But generally, I dont think he could do that kind of PR stuff without the world throwing a shit fit in BvS. Remember, he is the FIRST public superhero.

>>91832110
>But the world wasnt at a point where they could accept him like that.
Who's fault is that? He had 18 months between the invasion and the senate hearing to de-escalate the situation. He obviously didn't do that because we got the powder keg that was BvS.

And the idea that Super-Jesus has to die to inspire people to be better is silly when even Johns can put out a halfway readable story where he manages to turn people around without getting stabbed in the chest.

But hey maybe you should follow Snyderman's example if you really want to convince me.

>>91832099
Okay, I will post a bunch of a comic where Superman doesnt talk to people and convinces them to change their mind, since that is your highly specific bar that makes a good Superman.


Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
For The Man Who Has Everything
Death of Superman
DC Comics Presents Superman & Swamp Thing
John Byrne's Man of Steel

>>91832124
>If you actually read the articles, he does smaller stuff like help a starving homeless man in the woods
And you have to freeze frame to get that. I know Snyder is supposedly the next Kubrick but it's just not enough.

>>91832153
>talk to people
you're doing it again.

>>91832144
>Who's fault is that? He had 18 months between the invasion and the senate hearing to de-escalate the situation. He obviously didn't do that because we got the powder keg that was BvS.


So its his fault that the world is the way it is? Why do you believe humans can be swayed so easily. Show me evidence and proof that Superman could have changed public opinion more effectively and in a shorter time span.
>And the idea that Super-Jesus has to die to inspire people to be better is silly when even Johns can put out a halfway readable story where he manages to turn people around without getting stabbed in the chest.


Its not about them making them better people, its about explicitly showing that he is NOT Super-Jesus, he is not a god, and he is just here to do the best that he can with what he has. That he is just a man that wants to do good. That he should not be praised or feared.


And I dont know why you are so mad that he didnt get his reputation fast enough. BvS is the movie all about him earning that trust you wanted to have faster for some reason. If BvS was set a month earlier, so he did de-escelate it in less than 18 months, would you have been happier?

>>91832115
>That's the jihad in the streets part.
But that did happen to some extent I GUESS with the bombing on the senate. But your example is retardedly specific.


>And where exactly did that happen?
The people who were praising Superman like a god? The day of the dead people? The people that painted his symbol on their house? When they talk about it in the newscast montage?
>The series that gave us Superboy-Prime. Of course you'd recc that. I'm not sure if this is irony but it is amusing all the same.

What? No it didnt you dumb ass. Secret Identity ends with Superman having a full family. You casual shit.

>>91832039
>Now that he sacrificed himself for humanity, people see what he's willing to do for them and that he's not a god and will embrace him a bit more.

But that's an utter shit way to write Superman.

Bullshit "He's inspired us with his sacrifice." Is a garbage way to write in "Oh well now the whole world knows Superman is a good guy."

That shows utter lack of thought when you had a damned Silver Platter of a scene for Superman to communicate to the Nation if not the world "Who is Superman."

>>91832184
>its about explicitly showing that he is NOT Super-Jesus, he is not a god,
Right. So meet them at their level rather than floating above them. Actually connect with people. Humans are social creatures, but Clark isn't, ergo he's not really human. Just a flawed god.

>>91832115
>he thinks Secret Identity is the origin of Superboy-Prime


Superboy-Prime far outdates that you casual.

>>91832158
im sorry the movie wasnt focused on what you wanted to see, I guess youll just have to make your own superman story that focuses on the aspects you want.

>>91832169
okay then you explain what makes a good superman that cavil didnt do.

>>91832196
>The day of the dead people?
The people he could've talked to and asked them to stop but instead just furthers their behavior by flying off into the sun like a god figure?

>The people that painted his symbol on their house?
That wasn't a religious reference, that was a Hurricane Katrina reference.

>Secret Identity ends with Superman having a full family
Busiek said that the main inspiration for Secret Identity came from Superboy-Prime.

>>91832202
way to just ignore the rest of the post like an idiot. And guess what, he TRIED to do that, he tried to just sit down and have an interview, but it didnt work. The rest of the world, outside of Lois, thinks of him a certain way and they arent going to change their minds. Like ive been saying people just dont work that way. When Bernie told his followers that he supported Clinton, did they all suddenly do what he said and voted for Clinton? No, they did not. Please stop being autistic, its painful how you think people work.
But you know what DID work? A big action of Superman, an action that was consistent with his want to save people, where he kept saving people for two years until everyone got the message. You keep complaining that his method didnt work, but it did. Just not fast enough for you I guess.

>>91832203
I typoed. It's the other way around.

>>91832213
I can but it requires me to get out of bed so give me a minute.

>>91832005
Am I looking at a serial killer stalking a victim?

>>91832229
>The people he could've talked to and asked them to stop but instead just furthers their behavior by flying off into the sun like a god figure?

Do you think that really would have worked? By this point Superman has dealt with enough of these people to know it wont work. And who is to even say that is the right thing to do, would destroying their belief just cause them to do more painful things?
>That wasn't a religious reference, that was a Hurricane Katrina reference.

It can be both. People painting his symbol on their house, instead of Help or Save Me, is very telling on how they view him. Dont be so thick.
>Busiek said that the main inspiration for Secret Identity came from Superboy-Prime.

Okay so? That doesnt mean ti gave us Superboy-Prime you stupid casual, AND OG Superboy-Prime was nothing like the one you are referring to.


Your opinion doesnt even matter, you are such a Superman casual its stupid.

>>91832240
>I havent even read Secret Identity or know who Superboy Prime really is but I know its bad!

Jesus christ kill yourself please.

>>91832232
>tried once didn't work
Oh well that's a good hero. Someone that quits after the first try. Real inspiring.

> When Bernie told his followers that he supported Clinton, did they all suddenly do what he said and voted for Clinton?
I did, given the alternative.

And if minds can't be changed by words why are you still arguing? You should kill yourself to inspire me to change my thinking.

>>91832250
Yeah basically, that was Wallace's wall of Superman that he looked at before he bombed the senate.

>>91832265
No one said tried once, good job straw manning and explicitly being a retard.

>>91832266
I thought Lex bombed the Senate.

>>91832265
>And if minds can't be changed by words why are you still arguing?

Oh jeeze, what a shitty strawman. No one is saying that, obviously SOME can in other situations, but not the one Superman was in in the movie, at least not after 18 months.99% of people were not going to have their minds changed by him just talking, or at least not fast enough they werent. The story we saw was that breaking point where their minds are finally changed.

>>91832289
via Wallace's chair. Wallace was obsessed with getting revenge on Superman, hence why he went to court to testify against him.

>>91831846
Obviously, the moment that make everyone went full nuclear is the neck snap one, people will not bitch about it that much if that scene never happen. Anyways, what's wrong with Supes neck snap Zod? Like dude's obviously too dangerous to live.

>>91832260
Would that convince you I'm right? Because apparently martyrdom is the only way to win an argument in the real world.

>>91832341
No, stop strawmanning and being retarded/sarcastic as if that is somehow a worthwhile contribution. This is a very specific situation involving a super hero. Maybe if Superman didnt die he would have won them over later, but we'll never know because the story was got was the one where he won over the public via his sacrifice.

>>91832232
>A big action of Superman
You know what's sad, the best scene in these movies is the one with a child Clark where his senses get triggered and he realizes how big the world is and his mom tells him to make it small.

That's easily the most heartfelt moment across these two movies, and you guys completely overlook its poignancy and meaning.

"HE SAVED SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE" is big. "HE DIED FOR OUR SINS" is big. But big isn't the answer. The answer is to make it small. Big actions are great for spectacle but they aren't really what makes Superman good. They aren't what humanizes him or make him inspiring. They aren't what we can emulate. It's the SMALL acts that do those things. And the small acts that get skipped over or shoved into montages where you have to pause just to catch them.

>>91832368
>Maybe if Superman didnt die he would have won them over later, but we'll never know because the story was got was the one where he won over the public via his sacrifice.

By that same token maybe he would've won them over had he not been a standoffish prat from day one (okay technically day two), but the movie we got is one where the director needs everyone to hate him (not so) irrationally.

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>>91832153
>Okay, I will post a bunch of a comic where Superman doesnt talk to people and convinces them to change their mind, since that is your highly specific bar that makes a good Superman.

This "he needs to talk to people and convince them" shit you've concocted is interesting so I wonder what's going to happen if I post this. My prediction is that you'll waffle and move the goalposts again by saying something like "that doesn't count it's an idealized comic book world and not 'realistic' like the movies it wouldn't work there autism autism."

>>91832379
what the fuck are you saying, no one is ignoring that scene, I love that scene, but you are now arguing a completely different thing. We are taking about in-universe what humanizes him to the public, not you personally.


I love the big Superman moments, to me it is way more inspiring to read about Superman in the sun, making it go, then seeing him talk a guy out of shooting someone. I love seeing the impossible, it inspires me to do more.

>>91832408
No, that is just one story of Superman. And guess what, he tried that in MoS by just talking to Lois and doing a news report. He tried that by going to the Senate.


But there are also stories that work, that are valid Superman stories, where he doesnt do that. You are saying that Superman is ONLY good and TRUE Superman when he does that shit by saying that Cavil is NOT a good Superman because he specifically did not do that.

>>91832412
>what the fuck are you saying, no one is ignoring that scene, I love that scene, but you are now arguing a completely different thing.
Holy shit dumbass it's a metaphor do i really need to spoonfeed this to you?

>I love the big Superman moments, to me it is way more inspiring to read about Superman in the sun, making it go, then seeing him talk a guy out of shooting someone. I love seeing the impossible, it inspires me to do more.
Oh okay you're just in it for the spectacle and don't give a shit about the character at all. That's fair.. I watch DBZ for that so I get it.

>>91832392
But he wasnt a standoffish prat at all, the first thing he did was give an interview and fall in love. In fact when invited to talk to the Senate he went too, and he smiled at that girl he saved from the fire. He also had a friendly conversation with the general that was spying on him.

Thats not stand offish at all.

>>91832392
You are right the hate IS irrational and the movie makes a point of that. But guess what, people are irrational. And the problem isnt just that, the problem is that half the world irrationally loves him and praises him too.

>>91832432
>But there are also stories that work, that are valid Superman stories, where he doesnt do that.
"Death of Superman" according to you is one which makes it clear you don't actually know a damn thing and just want flashy shit without substance.

>>91832442
Ha ha you fail at reading.Unsurprising, but for future reference parenthetical statements are a thing you should've learned by now or else you're underaged.

>>91831281
"I'm acting!"

>>91832408
The hearing would have been the perfect setup for that. Superman laying it out. Fate of his world the reasons he does what he does what he seeks to accomplish. Those that doubted him starting to change their minds.

At which point Lex freaks and drops the bomb when he sees that he's losing the battle.

Better than a hundred odd people turning to ash and Superman looking like he smelled an elevator fart.

>>91832435
>You know what's sad, the best scene in these movies is the one with a child Clark where his senses get triggered and he realizes how big the world is and his mom tells him to make it small.
>That's easily the most heartfelt moment across these two movies, and you guys completely overlook its poignancy and meaning.


Thats a metaphor?

Your grasp on English is very poor, by me saying no is ignoring that scene I am responding to you saying we are overlooking it. Also I get its a metaphor, but the metaphor is arguing for something other than what we arguing for before.
Before we were arguing in-universe, and now you are arguing about out of universe impressions that you personally get.


>Oh okay you're just in it for the spectacle and don't give a shit about the character at all. That's fair.. I watch DBZ for that so I get it.


No, I love the character. But to think that that solely comes from the "small" moments is naive and retarded. Superman going through the gauntlet in Ending Battle is just as much a part of his character as him starting a family at the end of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?


The big moments are what make Superman, well, Superman, and not just nice normal man.
You are such a stickler for how someone SHOULD enjoy a character its absurd.

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>>91832437
>the first thing he did was give an interview and fall in love.
Didn't he already know Lois by then? It's not really the "first thing" in that case.
>If you pause here you can see that he smiled this one time! Why, he's practically jolly!

If you have to treat this thing like the fucking Zapruder film then it fialed to deliver, plain and simple.

>>91832451
Goddamn you suck at English dude. Obviously I was ignoring that part to make my point. But I guess you dont know what sarcasm or irony is.


Please explain how he actually deserves the hate? Because he saved the world? So you are saying you actually do believe the hate towards Snyderman is right? Because he doesnt talk to people enough you should hate him?

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Reminder that Superman sucks and is a boring character in all mediums, not just the Snyderverse

>>91832443
What? Are you saying the Death of Superman is not a valid Superman story?


Man your arguments are becoming more irrational by the second. I can practically see the foam coming out of your mouth.

>>91832200
But the entire point of that scene was the reversal of that silver platter expectation.

>>91831873
>IT'S NOT FUCKING COWARDICE to not risk thousands of lives and potential global wars just to be a gloryslut & go public.
There is no plan for preparing Earth for aliens. Clark KNOW aliens are out there, and that he can't possibly be the only one. And yet he NEVER actually did anything to "prepare" humanity. When the fuck were humans suppose to be ready? What exactly had Clark done in the years until the Zod invasion that get humanity ready?

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>Your grasp on English is very poor, by me saying no is ignoring that scene I am responding to you saying we are overlooking it. Also I get its a metaphor, but the metaphor is arguing for something other than what we arguing for before.
Now that's irony.

>Before we were arguing in-universe, and now you are arguing about out of universe impressions that you personally get.
No, I'm arguing both, although within the textual confines of the narrative it IS pretty moot because as we can agree nothing would work beyond ritual suicide because that's the only way Snyder could get off and redeem the character. Because that's what happened, and as we all know, what happeed happened and couldn't happen any other way.

>>91832464
>The big moments are what make Superman, well, Superman, and not just nice normal man.
Stick to Michael Bay movies. Clark being who he is is why you can do stories where he loses his powers without changing his character work, and one of several reasons why Act of God was fucking retarded.

>>91832469
>Didn't he already know Lois by then? It's not really the "first thing" in that case.

Well seeing as how he fell in love with her the moment he met her....


Also I dont know how you can say you have to "pause" to see any of this? Him giving the interview, talking to the officer, and going to senate are all big scenes that give attention to the interactions Superman is having. Hell, DURING the fight in Smallville he is talking to the soldiers and asking if they are alright.


I dont know how you can say any of that is stand offish.

>>91832485
>What? Are you saying the Death of Superman is not a valid Superman story?
Death of Superman is NOT meant to "redeem" Clark Kent. It is meant to show the loss of the human race after losing one of their most beloved heroes.

Instead, humans in BvS just are glad Superman is dead, he isn't a threat anymore because he is gone.

>>91832487
What in the film gave people that expectation that Superman was just misunderstood and that he was going to clear it all up with an empowering speech?

Only time he was anywhere near being Superman was his argument with Perry and even that was shit because someone doesn't know how a Newspaper works.

Does Supes care about anyone but his human fleshlight? At least with Injustice he was enforcing peace through dictatorship, but the knightmare thing seems to suggest he simply becomes Darkseid's minion, because? Also does anyone want to see Lois as the damsel in distress that Justice League has to focus around?

>>91832513
Gee, I don't know, how about this entire fucking scene?
https://youtu.be/K0lQxUqmnfU

>>91832504
Man you are retarded beyond belief.

We saw that Superman talked to some people (the general, Batman, Luthor, Lois, US Soldiers) with varying levels of success and tried to address the world at once via interviews and the senate hearing. But none of those worked on the grand scale for numerous reasons.


But what did work was Superman showing his true colors through action, not suicide you fucking idiot, but his willingness to sacrifice himself for humanity.
> Clark being who he is is why you can do stories where he loses his powers without changing his character

Sure but those stories only work BECAUSE he has powers most of the time. If he never had powers he wouldnt be Superman, its that simple. The entire point of Superman is that he uses his extraordinary gifts to help humanity, thus setting an example that we should use our own gifts to do so. I like the parts where he helps humanity on a mass scale, which is still part of his character.


You are being autistic about this, that Superman's character only is shown and works in one specific vehicle according to you.

>>91832488
>Clark KNOW aliens are out there, and that he can't possibly be the only one.

No, he doesnt. And when he does learn new information from Jor-El, all it does is confirm that he is the last of his kind (which ends up being wrong, but Jor-El had no way of knowing that).

>>91832477
>Goddamn you suck at English dude. Obviously I was ignoring that part to make my point.
Ah so you were only pretending to be retarded.

>Please explain how he actually deserves the hate?

If we're looking at this from perspective of a guy in the street, here's what he knows. He knows that one day he was working his crap job, when suddenly the TV in the other room shorted out and got replaced by a message saying that not only do aliens exist, but one has been hiding out on the planet for who knows how long, and that if he doesn't show up then everyone is going to die. (For some reason you don't get off work and your kid is still going to school the next day though). Then you find out that the alien (refugee? sleeper agent? who knows!) got arrested. And human nature, for all the niceties of the legal system, tends to suspect someone when they get arrested. THEN shit hits the fan and you hear about a town in Kansas that got buttfucked by the invading aliens and the army was dispatched to stop them. Well shit, I guess the all aliens are bad after all! THEN the aliens tear up new york and kill a not a couple, not a few, but a THOUSAND more people.

Somehow, after having survived all this, why the fuck wouldn't the guy on the street hate lone surviving the alien? He's not like us. Me, I'm a simple guy. I like a beer and a ball game. But this holier than though fuck floating around like he's better than everyone? He might be playing nice now, but for all we know he's just going to lose it one day and finish what the rest of them started. My point is, Luthor for President.

>>91832508
No one ever said it was meant to Redeem Clark, way to just pull that out of nowhere. You are crazy.


BvS told a similar story in which he died while highlighting who he was to humanity.


You are really salty man, go cry some more.

>>91832529
>but the knightmare thing seems to suggest he simply becomes Darkseid's minion, because?

Because Lois died and Batman never befriended him. Really its impressive how much it takes to get him to turn evil, seeing as how DCAU Superman was brainwashed very easily and in Final Crisis Darkseid brainwashed A BUNCH of heroes and a good portion of earth.


Oh but you are a casual...

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So, its ok to kill black man in africa, while white woman is not?

damn murderman and his selective hearing

>>91832485
>What? Are you saying the Death of Superman is not a valid Superman story?
That's actually an interesting and loaded question.
Because it's pretty well documented (literally, it's in documentaries) that DoS was just an editorial spitball that only happened in order to stretch out the comic production schedule to coincide with that of the TV show at the time. It's basically a fancy "filler arc" and so from a certain point of you you could, conceivably, make the argument that as it wasn't done in good faith it wasn't really "valid", depending on your definitions of the terms. But given that I get the sense that you define validity as "does he wear an S and punch stuff really hard", I would say that yes, it's valid. Just not very good.

The idea that it's dome revelation of Superman's character and how he can't just convince people with words is kind of silly since it's about him punching around a dumb rage monster. Yes it's true he couldn't talk down Doomsday but Doomsday was barely capable of comprehension so it's not as good an example as you seem to think it is, which again, isn't surprising given that you're in this for the explosions.

>>91832543
Superman didnt get arrested, he turned himself over dummy. Generally we dont suspect people that come in peace and turn themselves over. He also saved the world you know and continued saving people for two years.


From the prospective of the average man you have one alien that stopped another alien's invasion but maybe its his fault if the aliens came or not idk, but then he spends two years saving people for nothing.
You are crazy and project a lot of vitriol onto the movie for some reason.

>>91832543
You know its ironic, because the people that found Superman "holier than thou" in the movie were people like Bruce and Lex that werent average dudes.


I guess your idea is just shit.

>>91832536
But none of those moments connect together with the movie. We shouldn't even have the response of thinking he's a danger after all of that going by how much good he's done.

Yet we do. And all we get is some reason people not believing he's good because of some dim Senator so we're set to believe. Since when has anyone given a damn about what a Senator says.

>>91832571
I never said it was done as a revelation of Superman's character, just that its a valid story where he doesnt talk to someone to convince them. Goddamn to you are pedantic as fuck.


And if you think thats the only story to be done because of editorial mandate your naive as fuck. I guarantee you all of the Superman/Action Comic stories happening now are in some form editorially mandated.

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>>91832537
>If he never had powers he wouldnt be Superman, its that simple.
He'd be Batman. Or probably just a firefighter.
It's not his powers that make him who he is, but his mind and spirit. It's funny that you praise Byrne's Man of Steel but forget that he said that as well.

I suppose that's to be expected given that all you've done by way of discourse is whine about autism and strawmen.

>>91832573
>Superman didnt get arrested, he turned himself over dummy.
The average joe doesn't know the finer distinction of that. They know "aliens arrived. military has one in custody". They also wouldn't know that he's come in peace until it's too late. Lois is with Clark for all the major events in Man of Steel; she's got no time to publish that interview until afterwards, when thousands of people are dead at alien hands.

>>91832573
>People wouldn't just trust an alien demigod! That's not realistic!
>You are crazy and project a lot of vitriol onto the movie for some reason.
Pick one. Or don't. It's fun watching you flop around like a fish out of water.

>>91831281
the face who regrets quitting world of warcraft for a phonecall

>>91831798
But he isn't like that all the time, the movie focuses on that and on his struggle. Are you actually autistic?

>>91831661
so do the Avengers with less casualities

>>91832750
Hell didn't the suicide squad do it too?
That the problem with "he saved the world!" literally every superhero does that, and more than a few action heroes besides. It's not special. It's the bare minimum.

>>91831715
we could have had more of that if Superman actually had a decent supporting cast outside of Lois, you know like Jimmy

>>91832765
social skills and a secret identity aren't as important as existential angst and explosions

Clark Kent is dead. Long live the Supermanhattan.

>>91831657
Because BvS is a shitty movie.

I know total normies who have shit taste in movies who even hated it.

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>>91832759
>>91832750

I think Man of Steel would've been better if Clark hadn't spent the first half dicking around wrapping trucks around telephone poles

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Can you imagine watching this scene without knowing before hand that Ezra Miller was the Flash? You have zero explanation for who he is in the movie. Unless you heavily monitored the production of the movie like we did here it must be completely exasperating.

>>91833582
I think Man of Steel would've been better if the drama to give Clark a complex to hide his powers wasn't such bullshit.

>>91832759
The avengers haven't saved the world. The first movie was about an small army that could had been beaten by small handguns. The second movie was about them cleaning their Fuck ups. Thor did more in his sequel than the avengers

>>91831199
>next movie it is revealed super man is actually Superboy Prime and Alexander Luther has been using a hologram to make him appear older

>green lanterns have not shown because OA and several other planets have been moved to make Earth the center of the universe

>the JLA movie ends with a huge white light consuming everything, the anti matter wall

>we meet the real justice league and real superman next summer.

>>91831281
This
>>91831333
Also fear that he may have to kill Batman to save his mother

>>91831696
>can't stop a bad guy without thousands of people dying
He literally just started being a superhero with no combat training besides whatever Pa Kent taught him. He's not gonna exactly have precision to stop each of the Kryptonians.

>>91833767
Where are you getting that, your ass?

>>91832250
Did you not watch the movie? And if not, then why are you even asking without context?

>>91833631
by that logic Superman was simply cleaning the fuck up from his dad by sending him to earth with Zod after him, if supes wasnt on earth there would be no Zod, or Doomsday for that matter

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>Hey Kal, we need you on our side to restore krypton
>let me just show how violently we will kill these people you grew up with your entire life
>that will convince you

>>91833614
some people in the theater knew it was the Flash but where confused why he wasnt the same guy from the show

>>91831199
>Ecclesiastes 7:20
Read your bible you godless heathens.

>>91831199
>No one stays good in this world
>stays good

Bravo Snyder

>>91832745
He's like that for the entire time he's on screen as superman.

>>91831199
you edgefags should just give up

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>>91831787
>The thousands didn't die during their 1 on 1 fight
Well, I can think of at least one person who died during that, but go ahead and tell me all the ways you're certain she was the only one.

>>91833907
Ah, so Batman and Wonder Woman can be pros from their first appearance, but Superman has to be a scrub...because reasons?

>>91831199
Superman literally proves himself wrong though

>>91835682

What are you trying to show here? How's Superman meant to stop collateral damage from someone as powerful as Zod?

>>91833453
He really didn't cause much damage. He also did all this on the second day of being a superhero, and maybe the third week of even realizing he has powers at all. Holding off aliens thousands of times more powerful than the ones the Avengers fought (and thousands of times more powerful than the Avengers themselves) is damn impressive for a dude who was trained on a farm.

>>91834030
This is literally a plot point Ultron mentions in Avengers 2, and in half of all Batman/Joker stories ever. Every hero is responsible for the continued existence of their villain.

>>91835807
three thousand people died when two skyscrapers collapsed in NYC in 2001. At least one skyscraper collapsed in Metropolis explicitly because of the destruction brought about by the mismanagement of the 1 v 1 fight anon said the thousands hadn't died during, and that Bruce Wayne proceeded to go on a vengeance spree seeking to kill Superman because of the numerous employees he lost when his skyscraper was destroyed and we know his wasn't the only skyscraper destroyed during the 1 v 1 fight. Anon said the thousands weren't killed during their fight, and he may be correct to a very specific point that not all of the 5000 deaths (confirmed by Snyder himself) were not brought about by their fight, but lets not pretend the overwhelming majority of those 5000 were caused while Superman was across the world. If this universe is meant to play by the rule of depicting the severity of destruction a being with Superman's powers would unintentionally cause, then defenders need to stop cherrypicking when they want to play by the rules of fiction and non-fiction. We've seen the death toll the collapse of skyscrapers generates, and we have a total death toll confirmed by the chief creator of Man of Steel. Unless he lacks any conviction about the concepts he purports to be striving to depict at least a couple of those 5000 lost their lives while Superman and Zod were flying and throwing each other as well as other things into and through skyscrapers that have been confirmed since MoS to not have been evacuated. That means Superman owns a portion of those death, and his inexperience does not exonerate him from that culpability, because at the end of the day, his being depicted as inexperienced was a creative choice made by Goyer and Snyder, and was not echoed when it came time to introduce the other two members of the Trinity.

>>91831410
Cavill could play Superman that way if the script and Snyder would allow him to do so. He's got charm a-plenty in The Man from U.N.C.L.E. while also affecting a pretty good American accent.

>>91836021
Those people had no warning. By the time Superman was fighting Zod, the world engine had already started leveling buildings and you can see people in Metropolis leaving their buildings in wake of that.
The only building Superman and Zod collapses (which Zod collapses) was the Wayne building, aside from that nothing else. Superman also throws Zod through exactly one single building and he fires him at the top floor, causing minimal damage. All the other damage was Zod throwing Superman through buildings, or Superman skidding Zod's face through windows. That's literally it.

>>91836193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWyTY6T_h90
Wayne Tower that we know was full of people because when Snyder was given a chance to retroactively rewrite history, he instead depicted the office manager as needing Bruce's authorization to evacuate everyone before the building was shown coming down on him.
That parking garage at :57 potentially full of people trying to get their cars out minimally getting Oklahoma City'd probably counts as minimal damage to you as well, right?
Also, that impact wave caused by Kal's flight into Zod's Gorilla climb at 1:44 couldn't have hurt anyone despite noticeably damaging into the floors affected by it, as well as most likely compromising the sturdiness of the weight-bearing struts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMKsuA4Bi-c
Zod flying through the building at Superman's back at 1:02 almost certainly means no one was hurt, especially since they were shown flying many blocks/second away from the attack zone of the Terraforming wave which almost certainly has a positive correlation between the distance from the attack zone, and likelihood of people still in their buildings. As for Superman skidding his face along windows I'm sure people wouldn't have been looking out their windows just like we saw people in the Planet and Wayne building both doing, right? Surely his choosing to using a building as a weapon didn't put any spectators at risk right? And man, I'm sure he didn't hurt a living soul while he was thrown through the 4-6 buildings he is shown tumbling through. Lemme guess. Superman bullets don't hurt people. It's the Zods who throw them who do, right?
Seems you also forgot about the remnants of the Wayne satellite that were shown coming down and beings significant enough in size to noticeably impact many other skyscrapers. I'm sure that couldn't have hurt anyone either, right?

Anon said the thousands were killed by the terraforming wave, not the fight. He may be partially right, but that fight killed plenty.

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>>91836575
>That parking garage at :57 potentially full of people trying to get their cars out minimally getting Oklahoma City'd probably counts as minimal damage to you as well, right?
No, that counts as damage done by Zod. You can tell Superman had no control.
>Also, that impact wave caused by Kal's flight into Zod's Gorilla climb at 1:44 couldn't have hurt anyone despite noticeably damaging into the floors affected by it, as well as most likely compromising the sturdiness of the weight-bearing struts.
That was Zod. Supes clearly tried (and succeeded) to push Zod away there.
>It's the Zods who throw them who do, right?
Yeah. You do realize that Zod straight up said he'd personally kill every last person there was, right? If Superman didn't keep the focus on him, the casualties would have been thousands of times worse.
>Seems you also forgot about the remnants of the Wayne satellite that were shown coming down and beings significant enough in size to noticeably impact many other skyscrapers. I'm sure that couldn't have hurt anyone either, right?
Zod again instigated this, Superman got "control" at the last second.
>Anon said the thousands were killed by the terraforming wave, not the fight. He may be partially right, but that fight killed plenty.
I'm arguing against you holding Superman responsible or portraying him in a morally negative light. The guy did the best he could have in the provided circumstances without full mastery of his powers. In BvS Supes has gotten much better at saving people in ingenious ways now that he's tested his own limits- though then again he didn't have an equally powerful monster with multiple death wishes dogging him at every turn.

>>91836734
You don't get it. I don't give a shit who did what. Their actions in that fight led to the loss of life. That fight caused deaths, and more likely than not a significant number of them. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

>>91836788
You said
>That means Superman owns a portion of those death, and his inexperience does not exonerate him from that culpability, because at the end of the day, his being depicted as inexperienced was a creative choice made by Goyer and Snyder, and was not echoed when it came time to introduce the other two members of the Trinity.
Which is stupid. If someone does everything they can to prevent loss of life in an incident they didn't instigate, they aren't at a moral fault.

>>91832039
You mean after the JL fights him as the mid-boss of the film right?

>>91836854
>Which is stupid.
For you. Between you and I, writing Wonder Woman and Batman as badass from the get go while letting Superman look like a complete inexperienced dipshit for reasons that no other origin movie needs to resort to as a defense, and needing to tell how he got better instead of showing in all but a single montage because it's the only thing you can do well is more stupid. I'm not getting into the minutia of Man of Steel with you again. Want to know why all of the talking heads debated the nature of Superman in BvS that took him so far into self-doubt that he quit until LoLo was in trouble? Because as much as you may want to justify your perception of his actions which are clouding by your projection of who and what Superman is, the world Snyder is depicting, stupid though it may be, doesn't. Because that world doesn't perceive Superman as the godfather of modern superheroics or the paragon of everything righteous and just. It sees him as someone that is too good to be true, fallible, and somewhat at blame for every righteous thing he does. That's the point of BvS, right? You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs, but if the omelette turns out tasty, why mourn the eggs? That's just the cost of getting that tasty omelette. In this world not unlike the concepts Nolan explored almost a decade ago, usually guys who are too good to be true are, and in Snyder's world, no one can be that good. Even Superman questions whether they can be as OP reminded us.

>>91831410
Well, too bad he's not playing Miracleman or Sentry or Hyperion or Plutonian or any number of Superman knockoffs. He's playing Superman.

>>91837535
I think anon was taking his sarcasm to 11,
but actually agrees with you.

>>91837564
Eh.

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>>91831281
>What is his face trying to convey? Seriously.
I feel really bad for Cavill. He's honestly a pretty good actor, but Snyder has no idea how to work with people.

Think of how many genuinely talented actors are in his movies. Billy Crudup, Matthew Goode, Michael Shannon, etc. All of them have turned in these boring, wooden performances under Snyder's "direction". All he knows how to do is frame. That's it.

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>>91838222

>>91831410
Bait

>>91833631
>The first movie was about an small army that could had been beaten by small handguns
They still would've taken over eventually if not stopped, so it counts. Just like how Zod would've taken over eventually if not killed. It's the bare minimum.

>>91831199
Well said, Batman.

>>91836193
>Those people had no warning.
Zod gave them a full day beforehand to pack up and head for the hills. Have you really never seen a disaster movie? Like Event Horizon, or Independence Day; when a big bad thing is coming to destroy shit, the smart people load up on water and guns and get out of the cities.

Metropolis had a day after the Zodcast to do that and there's more indication they specifically chose not to than followed that common sense.

>>91831199
Sure they can, because its a movie not the world.

Writer and Directors are telling a story, not revealing reality.

>>91831281
Anguish

By the way, you might have autism

Could the Avengers have stopped Zod?

>>91839954
Hulk and Thor probably could have together, and Whedon absolutely wouldn't have allowed the depiction of his being stopped to be as destructive as Snyder did.

>>91838222
>I feel really bad for Cavill. He's honestly a pretty good actor,
I disagree, he's never been compelling in anything I've seen him in.

No, anon, not even Man from UNCLE.

But I do agree that Snyder doesn't get very good performances from most of his actors.

>>91840038
>wouldn't have allowed the depiction of his being stopped to be as destructive as Snyder did.

Most directors with a modicum of self-awareness wouldn't. Snyder just wanted his super-stylized CGI greek tragedy and decided to turn half of Metropolis into a crater.

>>91840038
Superman is 900 times faster than quicksilver in MoS. He splits a mountain with his head and doesn't even bleed. Don't be retarded, zod was out of their league.

>>91831657
Because CW and Doctor Strange were entirely unpretentious and BvS was made by people who don't like superhero movies.

>>91831199
This is the exact moment where this movie completely lost me.

Snyderman is good, but only when you take a shit more time than the movies are worth to look into the character. The presentation is trash.

>>91843267
That's where the universe lost me, phamalam.

>>91831556
Snyder is the most physically powerful man on set

Why even compete

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Superman ? Morelike is DisasterMan

People die to bomb?
People die to debris?
Black People?
Smallville?

He only care about white women only
fuckin selective hearing

>>91843340
Bravo. but considering the casual and normal audience, they dont have the time or the interest enough to do that. and honestly with good reason. what you see in this kind of movies should be what it is.

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>>91831199

>>91842443
Superhero movie isn't a genre. Generic action comedies are not good

>>91848003
Kryptonian sound organ is their penis.

>>91848846
>Superhero movie isn't a genre
I don't see how you could even make that argument.

>Generic action comedies are not good
What does that have to with anything?

>>91849472
It's simple, superhero isn't a genre. The Mcu is dedicated to action comedies with one or two movies outside that formula.

>>91850661
Superhero is a genre. The MCU is made up of superhero action movies with comedic trappings pretty typical to the action genre.

>>91839432
>Zod gave them a full day beforehand to pack up and head for the hills. Have you really never seen a disaster movie? Like Event Horizon, or Independence Day; when a big bad thing is coming to destroy shit, the smart people load up on water and guns and get out of the cities.

Zod never threatened Metropolis in particular, so unless you think ever city on earth should have evacuated why would people have left Metropolis?

>>91842443
>Because CW and Doctor Strange were entirely unpretentious

Civil War makes a few half hearted stabs at relevance, though ultimately the movie knows no one watching it actually cares about the bullshit ethical conundrum which is really just an excuse to split up the Avengers.

>>91850713
Is not, just like "carpenter" or "fireman" are not genres either. But your post pretty much makes clear what people triggered by Snyder are: people that just wants generic shit.

>>91850864
Okay, so they were only 90% unpretentious. Beats BvS by a country mile.

>>91850821
Don't try to reason with him. But yeah as far as people know the kryptonian shit is trying to find a dangerous alien living among us

>>91850902
>Is not, just like "carpenter" or "fireman" are not genres either
They could be if there were a fuckton of movies about firefighting or carpentry.

>But your post pretty much makes clear what people triggered by Snyder are
No, you just have confirmation bias.

>>91831199
>>>91850864
>Okay, so they were only 90% unpretentious. Beats BvS by a country mile.


Pretentious isn't a criticism and the movies were not pretentious at all at least you believe trying to have any artistic value beyond a happy meal is being pretentious, it was a bad movie, but not pretentious at all.

>>91850921
BvS took it's own ideas more seriously and works well as a superhero movie self-critique, it's way more engaging than Civil War.

>>91850991
It's not a genre even if you want to pretend it is. Just like Godzilla isn't a genre and Dracula isn't a genre either.

>>91851060
Kaiju and vampire movies are genres though.

This isn't the Superman or Spider-Man genre, this is the superhero genre.

>>91831199
BvS and Civil War both have Superman and Captain America putting their own selfish needs before the greater good, but Snyder is smart enough to have Superman realise this. Civil War just has Cap bluster about why he's right and expects the audience to go along with it.

>>91851049
It's sad, Lex has a prometheus thing going on with obvious nods to Frankenstein, and someone that mean the movie is pretending to be deep instead panted of just you know, just having content. Some people here is just so used to extremely flat movies that any attempt to include more ideas means that the movie tries to be deep or artsy. BvS is a fairly simple movie loaded with information for anyone that pays attention, but for the average burger the only thing they can retain is christian stuff

>>91831199
And that's why we know that Snyder doesn't understand Superman.

Good casting, terrible writing

>>91831281
I had a girlfriend in middle school and im pretty sure i made this face when she told me she shit in her neighbors jack-o-lantern.

>>91851100
Kaiju isn't the genre, and it only means strange beast in Jap. Superhero isn't a genre and will never be a genre, at best it will be Netflix section. It doesn't matter how much you want it to be a genre, it won't. What We Do in the Shadowsis not the same genre as nosferatu and twilight isn't the same genre as Coppola 's Dracula.

>>91851337
>Kaiju isn't the genre
You're wrong about that too.

>What We Do in the Shadowsis not the same genre as nosferatu and twilight isn't the same genre as Coppola 's Dracula.
You seem to think that movies can only belong to one genre.

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People will find any excuse to be pissed off at Snyder.

>>91831657
Not everyone who dislikes these cinematic abortions is a "Marveldrone" (as they like to put it).

I can't wait for Justice League you guys, can't wait for my beautiful blue eyed boy to come back from the dead.

He was in despair. People say things like this when their emotions are running high.

Though I think it wold have made more sense if they kept the scene of him trying to find his mother with super hearing, but couldn't locate her over the sounds of all the other crimes and cries for help.

>>91851398
Please dumb casual, kaiju doesn't mean shit. Kaiju-eiga is a genre, kaiju is just a word. I know /co/ is known as the dumbest board but you can't be so dense, no one thinks superhero is a genre, superheros are a thematic for a movie. Vampire is not a genre, not in literature or movies.

>>91851451
So is it a Quindent?

>>91851480
I think the point is that is right to hate DC movies as long as you don't defend garbage like Dr strange.

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>>91851451
I guess no one does any research any more.

>>91851636
I can't convince you, so have fun being wrong.

>>91851684
Yes, it's a shame that they didn't let Snyder fix it into a proper trident for myth reasons

>>91851715
You can't convince anyone. Go to /tv/ and ask them. If vampire is a genre.

>>91840038

Zod would've destroyed them. The superbeings in the DCEU pretty much outclass anything we see in the MCU. Kryptonian speed and strength, and durability are too much by themselves. Add in heat vision and flight, and they cut through everyone except Thor and Hulk before the Avengers realize what's happening.

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>>91851800
>Go to /tv/
Oh.

Oh, that explains a lot actually.

>>91851854
I'm not from that shitty board I just hope you go there and ask your retarded question, you will get the answers you deserve. You are nothing but an imbecile that can't manage to find the difference between genre and thematics.

>>91851706
To be fair, a trident having 5 points is pretty retarded.

>>91851698
This is right but sometimes it is worth talking about why Marvel succeeds where DC fails if only for hammering the point in. It's not even really defending Marvel it's just explaining what DC is doing worse.
And everytime DCEU defenders act like the people calling out their movies are "marveldrones", "disneyshills", etc, anything to deflect criticism.
This is just one of the things that has killed discourse on this site (not just when it comes to BvS)

>>91851451
>>91851706
This is a pretty autistic thing to make a joke about but the tridents do look a bit different. The hinges are slightly different and movie Aquaman's are far more pronounced to the point it pretty much stops being a trident.
I'm not excusing the joke (it's obvious the person didn't even google what Aquaman's trident looked like) but it's not entirely wrong.

>>91852138
The autist here it's you.

Anyway neptune/poseído had a trident, hades had a bident. In DC some retard went for the quindent years ago. Snyder was more likely to want a real. Trident but got stock with the quindent abomination.

>>91835734
If you had the least amount of attention span you would know that it is implied that both Batman and Wonder Woman have been superheroes far longer than Superman.

>>91839432

Zod didn't threaten Metropolis. They had no idea they would be the target

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>>91852055
Marvel succeeds because it's pandering. There's a lack of depth, everything's there for meme purposes. It's why people don't talk about their movies a month after they come out. Empty calories.

And America loves empty calories.

>>91854385
>Marlel managed to made literally who recognizible among normies and one of the most successfull movie universe of all time
>Snyder managed to turn two most iconic superheroes of superior universe and few iconic stories into a joke
?

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>>91831369
>>91831410

Watch an interview with Cavill being himself. He's all of those things. He's clearly capable of being a great Superman, but he's beholden to Snyder's direction to be a mopey turd.

>>91854385

I'm a pleb and I don't know who that is but I like him already

>>91850864
>Civil War makes a few half hearted stabs at relevance, though ultimately the movie knows no one watching it actually cares about the bullshit ethical conundrum which is really just an excuse to split up the Avengers.
I cared. Thanks for telling me what I thought though.

>>91838222
"boring wooden performance" from Michael Shannon. Bait.

>>91831199
Really loved this movie. Seen it 10 times already, soon to be 11. #SnyderKino-ma

>>91831657
Because Disney shills are real.

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>>91831199