Pretty Big DC Rebirth Spoilers At C232

>>91792198

Over in Blue Beetle, we get Ted Kord’s backstory. He was the Blue Beetle years ago (back when Clark died, most likely). Like in the classic story, Ted had a heart attack due to his heart condition. The change is that Ted stayed retired, where in the old story, he came out of retirement and was killed by Maxwell Lord. Jaime is wearing his classic suit right now. It’s virtually unchanged from the 80s.

In The Button, we see Bruce Wayne and Barry Allen break out the treadmill to travel to the universe linked to the button’s radiation. Bruce mentions his past time travel in Final Crisis and away they go. They end up in a place that looks like cell structures at

They end up in a place that looks like cell structures at microscopic level, but they are blue.

Anyone got that issue of Before Watchmen: Dr Manhattan for reference?

Within there are glimpses of memories and pieces of their lives that were taken away, which Barry notices. They end up crashing into the Flashpoint universe, where Thomas Wayne awaits. Is the DC Universe itself WITHIN

Is the DC Universe itself within Dr. Manhattan’s body? Questions are being asked.

In that Button issue, we also get to see the current JLA trophy room, which contains the equipment of past members. The Blue Beetle ship, Barda’s weapons, Fate’s helmet, Martian Manhunter’s mantle…A lot of clues there about the new post-Reborn history of the JL.

>I am told
Always the sign of bullshit.

>tfw the DC universe was inside Silk Spectre at some point

>>91792253
I just did a quick google search and the first page of results for BC articles that start off with that turned out to be right, lmao.

>More importantly, it destroys the 5 year timeline. It’s dead. The Justice League has been around almost 15 years,
neat

although by the time the new 52 ended they'd been around for like 10 years anyway

I am told=homosexuality speak.

>>91792198
>Conner Kent is the one thing removed.
The only downside to this (I know we have Kenan, but he and Jon are gonna catch heat because of this anyway). When will Cereal King save him?

No news about Barry's COIE death or Flash's history?

So Cyborg is officially no longer a founding member of the JL?

>More importantly, it destroys the 5 year timeline. It’s dead. The Justice League has been around almost 15 years, with Batman and Diana being there for Jon’s birth in the fortress. We see a new look for Batman in his early career, which is like his Rebirth outfit with the yellow trim removed from his chest symbol. Clark mentions the JL was destroyed by Doomsday way back before he got married. We also see Hal Jordan there for Coast City’s disaster, having his meltdown. Conner Kent is the one thing removed. This may be what Clark feels is missing.

This is not as big of a deal as he's trying to make it sound. In-universe Superman was already around for like 10 years, adding a couple more for padding is not that significant.

>>91792418
Oz clearly has him and Bart

>>91792198
>Superbitch shit
Color me uninterested

Ah I missed these crisis-type big multiversal events.
Multiversity was kind of a taste of that, but it wasn't a crisis and didn't have line-wide effects. It feels right to have these back

>>91792198
Neat.
We're living interesting times.

>>91792198
That look isnt new. Thats nu52 batman costume.

Don't go expecting everything back in canon.

>>91792198
>Conner Kent is the one thing removed. This may be what Clark feels is missing.


I'm pretty sure the thing Clark feels that's missing is going to be The Legion of Super-Heroes.

>>91792553
Fuck Byrne for taking Superman out of the LoSH

And people said nothing from the New 52 would be kept.

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>>91792198
>everything is canon because fuck it why not

I much prefer this to the alternative of rebooting and throwing a bunch of great material into the furnace.

>>91792589
only idiots said that, I've been saying from the start this is more like Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis where they change a few specific things but most of the current stories will still be canon

>>91792591
>throwing a bunch of great material into the furnace.

Anon, you don't have to burn you're old comics when they become non-canon. You can still read them.

>>91792580
I don't mind his adventures with the League but Superboy is dumb as shit and should never come back ever

>>91792625
You don't? Since when??

>>91792198
Superboy already exists. I doubt they will revert him back.

Beetle interesting. But leaves out his career post mid 90s.

Flashpoint universe being a seperate universe? So it was all a ruse?

Those old jla members sound like morrisons and jla comedy era.

>>91792630
Well yeah, the thing is that you don't need public Superboy for LoSH adventures with Clark. It was always stupid to retcon him out.

And now nothing makes sense
Superman line fucking up the rest of the DCU again with its shit

>Hey Johns, we are having a problem with continuity, could you give us your opinion on what should we do?
>MAKE EVERYTHING CANON

>>91792741
this is exactly the johnsian move. This is a man who has been given the power to have his cereal and eat it too. A man who loves all things DC is going to make it so everything DC can be canon again

>>91792741
Thats good and all. But everything can't be. Plus history changes equal can't directly refer what old issues to look at.

Anyway they're partly debooting nu 52 away.

>>91792198
>>91792209
That's all well and good, but when's PRIME TIME?

>>91792198
Cool.
When's the next reboot?

>>91792443
It was dead for a while.

Now what does the joker thing mean?

>>91792198
They wouldn't be dealing with this crap if they had rebooted everything back to beginning with New 52.

>>91792806
the only thing missing from making this a new crisis is in fact Superboy Prime

>>91792817
The catch is a retro deboot.

>>91792741
He's the hero we deserve.

>>91792310
Who wasn't, right?

Continuity feels like such a mess, but I guess they will just say everything is canon, pre and post New 52, unless they specifically state otherwise.

>>91792591
it was literally always this way

>>91792838
>It was dead for a while.

Not really. Superman was active years before JL Origin. Then there was the 5 year gap and it's been almost 5 years in the present day since then.

>>91792198
Is that Silver Banshee?

>>91792806
Prime Time would be in a year or so. We're halfway through Rebirth, remember.

>>91792853
But fans wanted old stuff back in. The dc universe will always be in a flux.

Oh well cyborg superman blew up coast city again.

Infinte crisis and other crisises never happened though.

>>91792741
How could one man be so based?

with tom king on new gods and orlando handling the atom comeback, who do you think is going to be given legion? do you think they'll pull a superstar from elsewhere or give johns the book? (they said johns was going to be writing a new book in fall/winter of this year)

>>91792198
This all sounds great. With Ultimates 2 and the button it seems like this week is going to be heavy on cosmic origins and explanations.

>>91792878
Jurgens already said it was 10 years on lois and clark run.

Anyway each new character plugged in restores history. I guess superman and wally put a lot of history back in.

>>91792198
What about his relationship with Wonder Woman? Is his other self's time with her gone, or in this new timeline did he and Lois separate for a while and Supes spent that time balls-deep in Diana?

>>91792910
The mess wouldn't be this big if GL and Batman rebooted normally like others.

>>91792925
Johns will be doing jsa fr sure.

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>>91792198
>More importantly, it destroys the 5 year timeline. It’s dead.

FUCKING YES

Easily the worst part of New 52 along with not rebooting Batman and GL.

>>91792966
It literally says he doesn't know. My reading between the liens is that it either would have happened very early or not at all.

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>>91792198
Nice.

>>91792970
To most fans, they want everything old back. That's the point of rebirth. Not a clean slate,

>>91792925
If it's someone small-tier I would just want Abnett. He knows the characters and it wouldn't be too bad. I'm hoping for Johns though.

>>91792998
Truly we are blessed

>>91792976
johns back on jsa would be a godsend, but I hope its not just the classic team. Part of what made his run work was a mix of classic and legacy heroes, like jakeem thunder and cyclone and star girl

>>91792976
I hope not, because they really need to find a new, great writer for that book rather than depending on Johns all the time.

Also his second run wasn't as good as his first, and this probably won't be much different.

>>91792198
Reboot every ten years
Soft reboot/retcon every five years

Why is DC such a big fat mess?

>>91793022
I think he already seeded Jakeem in the Rebirth one-shot. Or at least I can't imagine who else that great grandson would be.

>>91793018
abnett's decent but he always gets saddled with middle of the road artists

>>91792925
>atom comeback
In a solo comic or in JLA?

>>91793080
jla. no solo comic for a while I think

>>91792806

Soon, my friend... soon...

>>91793051
>Reboot
>End up doing things that limit stories/fans or writers dislike
>Retcon reboot to be not a complete reboot but not completely the same
>Repeat next reboot

>>91793022
Still hoping Blue Beetle gets bumped over there rather than TT, it'd be much more interesting

>>91793051
Warner bros. plus crisis at the the time was a gimmick to boost orders for dc comics.

They just lied to say the multiverse was confusing.

>>91792433
THis??

>>91792209
Martian Manhunter's mantle.. where is he?

>>91793113
Same. I hate the idea of Jaime on TT. Him on JSA with the actually successful proper legacies would be good instead of being canon fodder for the next ANOTHER TITAN DIES cover.

the only characters whose comebacks I want are The Question, Shazam, and The JSA

>>91793118
Multiverse has always been the worst part of DC though

>>91793022
I'd like to see characters that Johns couldn't use the first time around like the original Atom, Dr. Midnite, and Sandman. For younger characters, Stargirl, Blue Beetle, and the new Dr. Fate would all be pretty great.

Pieces have to get folden back in dc.

Jon was grandfathered in.

>>91793099
Sadly JLA has been fucking shit. If it doesn't improve in the next arc I'm dropping it.

>>91792209
>They end up in a place that looks like cell structures at microscopic level, but they are blue

The dc multiverse is a living, germ like organism living in the overmonitor. From outside, it looks like a bunch of cells. Maybe it has been "corrupted"?

>>91793024

Titles that won't sell well should have big names on it. Johns could keep it in the top 20-30. You want to put the lesser names on bigger titles like a Bat or Super book or a mini.

>>91793199
it's not that bad
Lobo's been pretty good, The Ray and The Atom have been pretty solid, the rest of the cast are pretty much a miss though.

>>91792925
>who do you think is going to be given legion?

Hickman

>>91793176
The very nature of DC calls for the existance of a multiverse, anon. Try to erase it or reboot it and in a few years your event will be a mere chapter in the tapestry that is the living, growing, fictional multiverse.

>>91793222
Give him a co-writer, then. You still have Johns as a draw, but you're also grooming someone else as a big name and that'll help get around the problem of Johns being busy as hell, plus having someone to help rein in some of his shittier ideas.

>>91793244
i would be okay with this. he does well with characters he fanboys over (fantastic four, dr. doom, nick fury)

>>91793176
Not really. Salescwas down because fans didnt like the characters they way they was. So they marvelized them post crisis.

>>91793252
I don't use this phrase often, but that shit you typed is literally cringe inducing

>>91792198
And Mr Oz also destroys the ice sculpture of his earth parents, which may be foreshadowing.

What could that mean?

>>91793289
He's stated that if he ever wrote for DC, that would be the book.

Real talk, the general history of both New52 and post-Crisis Superman could work together in broad strokes, especially with the latest retcon revelations (Jon was born in the fortress post-Death, say, the Kents move out of Metropolis to Hamilton for a bit).

Supes/WW is the only thing sticking out at me. I can take him and Lois splitting up for a bit, but it'd have to be early days by default.

>>91793176
No it wasn't.

Superboy 90s dont exist. I doubt matrix supergirl does.

>>91793333

4 3's my main man. Who fucking knows though. I dropped LSD last night so this thread and the MAKE MINE MARVEL one are kinda bleeding in like theyre... Oh fuck.

DC Marvel crossover? MAYBE!

>>91793333
Mr. Oz is both Jonathan Kent and Ozymandias.

I assume it plays into that one line way back when about how Oz somehow "taught" Superman.

>>91793360
Yeah, it was. Having 50 fucking versions of Superman is stupid and makes him less special

>>91793225
I'll grant you that, but I just felt like the first arc was generic as fuck and could've been a fucking Hitch JL plot.

>>91793411
But /co/ told me Hitch JL is good!

>>91792198
>>91792966
Seems like he updated the article with this.

As for Wonder Woman and Jonathan Carroll, their respective beaus during the New 52?
Never happened. Lois and Diana are said to be close friends their whole life. Diana delivered Jon. There is the sense that the two Supermans had their lives righted after uniting. The “wrong” history like Convergence or the Diana relationship are gone. They both returned to the other what was missing.

>>91793407
There was only 3 pre crisis.

Marvels multiverse is bigger and more used while having characters stay on their earth.

>>91793328

It's true, tho. Crisis was undone, the new 52 is being undone, any attempt to "simplify" things just doesn't last. It only ends up making the next crisis more complicated (or richer, depending on your perspective).

>>91793407
>Having 50 fucking versions of Superman is stupid and makes him less special

How so

>>91793449
Man, I remember when /co/ universally hated Hitch's JL.

That dude needs to stick to art, he's being completely wasted.

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>Kents are still dead
>real superboy is gone
>more overcomplicated timeline multiverse bullshit
I've accepted that I'm never going to enjoy Superman again.

>>91793466
Ah.

I literally hate this, JL being around for 15 ears is annoying as fuck because then Bruce is around 40.

Everyone is old as fuck.

Fuck, why.

>>91793508
I'd rather Bruce and Clark be in their 50's.

>>91793466
Makes sense.

>>91793407
If you can't distinguish from alternate universes, that means you have brain problems. It used to be that they didn't crossover much. And even with the crossovers between alternate universes in the last few years, it's less a mess than whatever it is Marvel's been doing. I mean for fuckssakes, even before COIE there were like only two Supermen, Earth-1 and Earth-2. Every other Imaginary world was just one-and-done and forgotten by the general audience.

>>91793493
Superboy just isn't inserted back in yet. The nu52 one was nu52 clone from the future son. Probably erased as well.

Having parents dead is the classic way.

If Coast City was destroyed, how is it back?

>>91793493
I think this happens to everyone eventually. I pretty much gave up on the Superbooks with how New Krypton ended so abruptly. I have enjoyed some runs since then but they killed my fandom there. I'll never truly love the Superman ongoings again in the same way.

>>91793449
No they didn't. I've been in every JL Rebirth storytime thread, and 90% of /co/ has hated his run so far. At best they say he's "improved" since the run started, but that's about it.

>>91793508

It's better than awkardly fitting decades of history in a 5 years timeframe.

>>91792925
I'm still hyped for King writing New Gods.
I literally am dieing for read his stuff, and that makes me feel quite stupid.

>>91793466
More:

After the wedding and the electric suit story, Superman put on the New 52 gear and took 9-month-pregnant Lois to California to hide from Intergang, who blew up her office. This is when she became Author X and they lived on their first farm as the Smiths. Clark adopted the beard and the black suit and left the JL. After a year, they return to Metropolis. When Jon looks to be about 5, they move to the Hamilton Farm. This is where he puts the New 52 suit back on and battles Ulysses, Oracle(space god), Blanque, etc. These recent events are retold versions of New 52’s recent stories.
Lois and Clark never dated anyone else.
It is suggested that his Superman career was played down a bit after Jon was born, where times, he hung up his cape to be a dad. This may be the event that stands in for New 52’s recent death, allowing for Lex to adopt a Super identity. Also explains why Supergirl mentions that he has been away.
Oh and the pink energy being forming the revenge squad? Hank Henshaw. He is disguised as human, as seen in Supergirl. Like before, he can turn into data energy. The time change has restored his past as the Cyborg Superman, and he has been hiding in a human form. He and Eradicator know each other from a decade ago. Eradicator has his current gray skin look and he is still buried on the moon. In flashbacks, he looks classic style with peachy skin.

One odd note. Oz warned Superman about what he has done, basically stealing back his lost years. Told him that he should have considered the longer picture. We also see that classic Kirby Darkseid is canon. New 52 is now a dying set of ideas where some parts will be woven into classic story.

>>91793551
Rebuilt

>>91792976
He'd be more likely to do LOSH I think, he's only done a couple stories with them before and not a proper run

He already wrote like 100 issues of JSA, that needs him less

>>91793562

Aside from Damien being 10 which was explained as him growing faster due to the chaos shard, everything was explainable, one Robin per year more or less is better than Batman being in his mid 40's.

>>91793551
The same way it came back pre-Flashpoint. The people rebuilt it.

This is a really odd question. Do you not read comics?

>>91793466
Kek all that WW/Supes build up bullshit gone. Like tears in the rain.

>>91793590
How does Jurgens manage to explain all this in 20 pages? This is gonna be badly written me thinks

>>91793590
Nice kirby darksied. I guess nu52 jla origion is gone.

>>91793469
>>91793541
>never even mentioned Marvel

Marvel living rent free in DC drone's heads

>>91793551
the same way in came back after the original Rebirth, people eventually moved back and rebuilt it

Surely you remember that scene from Sinestro Corps War of everybody in town putting a green light in their windows?

>>91793561
Nah, I've definitely seen a couple of non-storytime threads where some people are talking up Hitch's JL as being great now.

>>91793551
In GL:Rebirth Paralax/Spectre/Hal restored Coast City (the buildings and the land) back to how it was before being blown up. The early issues of Johns run dealt with people "cautiously" moving back to the city. Eventually everyone just started acting like it had always been there.

>>91793054
He could be Will Power.
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/William_Twotrees_(New_Earth)

>>91793602
Why don't you want them to be 40?

>>91793508
Lot at this attention whore, throwing all his bait to us!

Bruce and Clark being 40 is good.
Men in their 40 are still very active, you know

>>91793590
Do you remember when New 52 was just a Justice League Rebirth story? Johns and Lee were bringing back the big 7 in that David Graves story. Didio turned it into a linewide reboot in 2011, so Johns cooked up that Darkseid invasion story.
I think Rebirth is trying to restore Johns’ idea. To add elements to their long-term history and update some costumes, not reboot history. To add and enhance, not subtract.

>>91793667
Thats not the point. (I read both). Saying the multiverse is a problem is retarded.

>>91793675
They are delirious, because his run has been so shit, anything slightly above mediocre he outs out, they delude themselves in thinking its great

>>91793629
It was already gone. They broke up and stopped caring before Superbro died. I don't understand people pretending like it mattered when it was ignored in all the books besides SMWW.

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>>91792209
>DC's universe is like a living, growing organism compared to Marvel's more structured universe.
>It's also blue.
DEEPEST LORE
E
E
P
E
S
T

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What's going on with Dr. Fate right now exactly? Who's under the helmet? I'm confused because >>91792209 says the helmet in the League's trophy room.

>>91793757
The Fate ongoing established multiple copies.

>>91793740
It is and is the most likely reason why DC has always been #2 behind Marvel despite their characters existing longer.

>>91793810
Nope, real reason stan lee says the past dc characters are not relatable enough.

They became so post crisis.

>>91793810
DC was number two when there was no multiverse after COIE. Sounds like you have no argument.

>>91793793
Is Khalid still active when his series ends?

Because we seem to have Kent back in Blue Beetle?

So that makes 3 helmets so far?

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>>91793466
>Only the best stories become canon.

>>91793874
Kent doesn't need a Helmet anymore though.

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I wonder if we should take this part of the Rebirth cover too literally or not as to what JSA members were sent to the future by Johnny Thunder. Fate being there throws me off.

>>91793899
Isn't he wearing one in BB though...?

>>91793851
>>91793857
Yet they are still #2.
Really makes you think

>past dc characters are not relatable enough

Maybe having multiple versions of the same character has something to do with this

>>91793656
Maybe it's a double sized issue.

>>91793922
You should really just read the issue where Kent was in Kalid's book.

>>91793910
I don't think it matters besides maybe guessing the roster. Black Canary has had some weird mom shit too I think?

>>91793703

It's because it ages everyone up, Teen Titans can't be teens if they are that old.

Dick and the older titans are now in their thirties, they have to be adults and step up to the league just like they were almost a decade ago.

DC was really stale before the New 52 IMO, I feel like this is a return to that era.

I just hope they don't bring most of the families back.

>>91793675
I read it too, here and there. They lied.
God, I started reading because of them and is so damn awful. Still will look most recent issues, to see if it eventually improves.

>>91793924
I see that you're the spergy fuck who whines about multiple Spider-characters

>>91793968
K, I do plan on buying Khalid's trades. Will read.

What happened to Earth 2 Doctor Fate?

>>91793656
Very easy to do in one or two spread with a few word bubbles. Don't overthink this. It won't be as slow as them literally just retelling Secret Origin last issue.

>>91793874
Everyone you knew was dr fate.

They trying to make a unified what we never rebooted and keep most of our stuff.

There's some pre crisis stuff thrown in too. Supermans dead parents. Legion past. Etc.

Crap like indenity crisis and new kypton and crying superman stay gone.

>>91793968
>Black Canary has had some weird mom shit too I think?
yes

Black Canary was originally an Earth 2 character, she transferred over to Earth 1 after her husband died, but they kept treating her like a young woman even though she was supposed to be like in her 40s, so they just retconned it that JLA Dinah was younger and the JSA Dinah had been her mother

>>91793602
Fuck off. No fucking way would Bruce immediately go to another Robin after Jason's death. There needs to be some breathing room. Sorry if you don't like the idea of your husbando being a gramps, but it comes with the legacy.

>>91794005
>What happened to Earth 2 Doctor Fate?
disappeared for no reason, hasn't shown up since

he wasn't a Batman or Superman character so he had zero relevance to Earth 2

>>91794011
No I mean current new 52 Dinah has had that carried over. I didn't read her ongoing but I remember the solicits suggesting a mystery there and her mentioning being an orphan?

>>91794036
oh, my mistake

I have no idea, I didn't read her solo or new 52 BOP or rebirth BOP

>>91793924
Nope. Have you ever read old marvel? Time travel copies and multiverse team ups happen there too.

People want characters with flaws and darkness. Post crisis wally was flawed. Superman was depowered and batman became nuts.

>>91794003
Don't know what you are talking about, but nice non argument

Y'know, instead of being around 40 the JLA generation could be around 35-37. Just starting around 20-22.

>>91794009
He's asking specifically about current Fate status quo not past continuity. Your post doesn't help.

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Welcome to Comics: Where the stories are made up and the continuity doesn't matter.

>>91794073
That's what they did pre-Flashpoint. I don't understand people assuming DC making them older than that. Why would they need to be 40?

>>91794031
Earth 2 universe got rebooted anyways. And hinted slowly making the last non rebooted characters part of the history.

I guess why shazam is missing, is because they're gonna deboot him. He was part of beetles jla in the 80's.

>>91794018

1.5 Years - Dick
1.0 Year - Jason
0.5 Year - Jason is dead, Bruce has no Robin
1.0 Year - Tim
1.0 Year - Damian, Dick/Damian etc.

I know it's not perfect, but I know that not EVERYTHING that happened in the previous continuity happened in the N52, so it could fit.

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If this mother fucker isn't in JSA and didn't train Batman I'll be fucking pissed.

>>91793968
>>91793922
>>91793899
>>91793874
Rebirth seems to have retconned that. Blue Beetle had Kent trapped by Nabu until just recently.

>>91794118
Theyre all mid 30s.

>>91794102
Especially when we reboot everything every 5 to 10 years

>>91793991
Dick can be 25 easily.
Same for Wally.
I don't see a problem.

>>91792198
>it destroys the 5 year timeline.

This is good.

>>91794129
Don't matter anymore. We got 15 years to spread around.

Plus cassie was still never Robin. Or tim as red robin.

>>91794152
Is it possible the Fate book simply just happens after that?

>>91794194

It was said that Tim only spent a short time with Batman before adopting the Red Robin identity.

>>91794190
Wally needs his kids back in. You can see that missing elements restore things.

I don't expect everything back however.

>>91794216
I don't think so.

Also I made a mistake, Kent is back under Nabu's control.

>>91794118
>>91794166
This.

If it's roughly 12-15 years of the Age of Heroes, you can easily have them still be full-fledged adults, Dick's generation early-mid 20s, Tim's late teens, and Damian's generation early teens (from Superboy being 10 to Kid Flash III being 14).

At worst, the Young Justice generation gets time super-heroing condensed and Jason is barely a Robin in order to let Dick grow up properly and Damian have plenty of future time to play out as a Robin.

I always assumed the JL generation were literally starting their 30s at best to just hitting mid-30s at worst. You can easily keep all the history of sidekicks aging in a 12-15 year timeline.

>>91794194
>cassie
You meant Steph, right?

>>91794244
Fuck Wally's kids, I want Chris Kent back. Jon deserves a brother.

>>91794224
Even then he was no offical robin. They can however insert his old costume back in.

Honestly I think they will leave nu52 batman alone. While the rest gets some stuff added back in.

>>91794190

Wally has two 10 year olds at 25

Dick could work, but Wally?

>>91794244
I'm afraid he's not going to get them. Not anytime in the next 2 or 3 years. They didn't even put Wally into the Linda rout, that if they put her, which is something to be seen (probable, but not set in stone).

Also, he's in his early-middle twenties: no way they're going to give him children until he pass the 25, and not actual grown kids until he's in his 30.

>>91794300
Whatever.

>>91794302

Nah they don't need him anymore.

>>91794331
Wally's kids suck

Anyway they can be aged with speedforce

>>91794331
Are you seriously asking this? Wally's children did not naturally age. They were only like a year or two old in-universe.

Wally was already young pre flashpoint.

>>91794293
This guy posting.

Years 1-8: Dick Robin
Year 8-9: Jason Robin
10-14: Tim Robin
14-15 (present-day): Damian Robin.

Generally other sidekicks pop up a year or so after the Robins in continuity if we assume Silver Age Batman started around the mid-50s and working from Kid Flash I appearing in 1958. Same for Tim debuting in 1990 or so and Superboy II/Impulse popping up in 1993/1994, and finally, Damian becoming Robin in 2009 and 2016 debuting Superboy III, Kid Flash III, Red Arrow II/Emiko, and the announcement of Aqualad II/Jackson Hyde joining the Teen Titans and appearing in Rebirth #1.

So Dick's peers crop up in Year 2 onward, Tim's in Year 11, and Damian's in Year 15/present with their extremely recent debuts.

As for the JL adults, they are around 22-24 when they all debut, as mentioned.

Boom.

Is capeshit continuity an inherently unsolvable problem?

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>>91792741

>>91794426
I see Jason working under Bruce's wing a bit more, and Tim a bit less.

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>>91793747
The Marvel Universe has looked like THIS since the mid 60s. And has a multiverse that is vastly less structured than DC's numbered system.

DC is only more organic in that it kept eating smaller companies for decades.

>>91794435
All of this is fairly solved, what do you mean?

I'm dissapointed by this, one of the problems DC was facing back in the N52 was how old everyone was getting, Batman was in his mid 40's. As was Supes (not that his was a problem), Ollie was also in his 40's.

And now we're going to have this problem again in five years

>>91794426
Depends on everything gets restored. Which may not happen.

>>91793991
>Teen Titans can't be teens if they are that old.

Sure they can. The Teen Titans are on the fourth Robin and Third Kid Flash at this point.

Having the eldest characters be actually kind of old makes room for the kid characters to make actual sense.

>>91794496
Until the day they understand that being 40 is alright.

>>91794471
Works for me, they're always gonna be the ones way more squished than Dick and Damian in any event.

I'm also going for the 15 year-old pre-Flashpoint DCU in timeline age. I'd be squishing Jason/Tim's time a lot and Dick's very slightly if I was going for "just" a dozen years, for example.

>>91794496
Wut

New 52's problem was that everyone was too young and the timeline made no fucking sense.

>>91794474
Marvel keeps everything in history even it contradicts itself. Explained in ultimates.

Long running universe that go on and on are going to have this things. Weras other works just end, reboot, or set in reality.

>>91792497

Seriously? DC does this almost annually by now. How long 'til Superman origin #19?

>>91794496
This is overstated. They weren't actually getting old. The fix before was to slowly condense things and retcon it into a slower time period. COIE was still "10 years ago" even when years should have passed between the last time they said it.

>>91794496
No, they're in their mid 30s. If they still use the dick became robin at 16 thing.

>>91792198
>Parents are dead
This is the only mistake.

>>91794550
I think he mean that the N50 was created because they were getting old. Or so they though, apparently.

>>91794634
>N50
I meant N52.

>>91794634
N52 was created to boost sales. It was insisted by warner.

While geoff hates hard reboots.

>>91794618
Literally what are you saying

>>91793407
There were really only two Supermen Pre-Crisis though, Earth-1 and Earth-2 (which existed to keep the Golden Age stories that didn't fit Earth-1 in continuity).

Then Superboy Prime was added for CoIEs itself, but fully intending to send him off forever anyway. All the stuff about assigning Earths to random elseworlds was done retroactively after the multiverse was over. They weren't even part of CoIEs or anything like that.

>>91794706
I don't know enough about DC to discuss about it, so I'll get your word.

>King and Gerads's New Gods still not announced
Fucking when? I remember King saying his new project would come out in July, but I guess it got pushed back. Hopefully only by a month.

>>91792443
So if the 10 years suddenly come back does that mean...Wally's kids are alive? Or what? Like you can't just drop that and ignore all the implications.

I mean you can but why would you?

>>91794771
Are we sure it's Gerads?

>>91794496
What is so bad about these heroes being 30's to 40's? Grown ass men and women with dad dick strength and prowess is fine.

>>91794776
So far it's unclear. Linda never got with Wally at this point in time in this timeline and appeared to only vaguely remember him in Titans.

>>91792998
>With the exception of The Flash, because then Barry would matter less

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>>91794810
King said he was doing a new 12 issue DC book with him, and this is definitely his art, so yes.

>>91794496
ollie being an old style leftie that doesn't feel at home with the current "progressive" crowd is something I need.

I need it anon.

Make Ollie old.

>>91794821
There's nothing wrong with it. I can't think of any popular media that doesn't have the adult characters in their 40s these days. I feel like 50 is more of a concern.

>>91794810
Sure hope not.

>>91792198
>It's all canon
>But Ma and Pa Kent died before he became Superman

Then it isn't all canon. Death and Return of Sueperman couldn't have happened the same way.

>>91794810
Considering he's said it's a project with Gerads, the teasers looked like Gerards art, and Sheriff with Gerards got pushed back because of the new project, I'd say yes, we're sure it's Gerads.

>>91794776
You're assuming we get the 10 lost years back.
We may not.
>>91794821
I don't see a problem either, more so given that currently I would put the main demo in that age range, or even 20-40. And tweens don't care about middle 30-40yo characters.

>>91792780
Johns 2017: Make DC Canon Again

>>91793508
Bruce has been around since 1940. Isn't it somewhat natural that he's aged after having raised so many kids?

>>91792741
But this isn't "make everything canon", it's "make what I like canon".

>>91793991
The Teen Titans are grown up. They should grow up. That's the point of them. Wally's been an adult since 1985 you doof. Dick's a year older than Wally!

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>>91794931
same difference in the end

>Jon will never meet his grandparents

Fug.

>>91794977
Honestly I just want Susie to still exist

>>91794956
No, not really.

>>91794331
Iris was aged up faster than Jai, IIRC. They were 10 and 12 -- so Iris could eventually be in the Teen Titans (which got scrapped).

>>91794821
Because at that point they should be focusing on their children. Being parents, bequeath a legacy and then moving on to the next chapter of their lives. Kids come in and carry that legacy forward. But that won't ever happen. So it's better to keep them youngish for as long as possible and then for a few more years after that.

>>91794999
If it matters to people down the line they'll keep it and if not they'll retcon in something that matters to them.

>>91794244
No he fucking doesn't. Wally turned to shit after his kids were born.

>>91794829
But that's only because of the ten missing years. If they suddenly insert the ten years back with Superman Reborn then Wally and Linda were together for awhile. If the entire JL is 10 years older then why isn't Wally?

>people actually pretending they liked Wally's kids when the only time they were genuinely good was in the Convergence mini and maybe a few adult Irey appearances like KC

>>91795034
Not while Johns is in charge, that's the problem. Before continuity was loose, millennials might find it hard to understand that a character created in the 40s is not as old as their grandparents but this need to actually state what is and isn't canon is fucking retarded.

>>91795077
I liked Wild Wests.

I didn't like the stuff after but that's after Waid left the title.

I mean Wally West II is still around and he was WAY shittier than Wally's kids ever were, in way worse comics.

>>91795068
I don't think you understand how the 10 years nor Reborn works. It's not going to happen.

>>91795008
40 year old's aren't that fucking old dude. 50's I get. 60's even more so. But 30's and 40's? Most people in law enforcement and high demand stress jobs are at those ages when they're at their best. Rookies are 20 somethings and you finally get the hand of things in your 30's. Late 30's, early 40's is a nice sweet spot. At least for all the Silver Age heroes.

>>91795117
They're inserting all sorts of JL history. Which would include the years where Barry was dead. You know, like when Coast City blew up. That's when Wally was The Flash.

Caling it now, Superboy-Prime will get to be Superboy in the place of Conner Kent before having a mental breakdown and going back to angry kid ways. There we'll have the Crisis.

Maybe he'll be redeemed once and for all in the aftermath.

Also calling it now, Dr. Oz is Alexander Luthor Jr from Earth-3.

>>91795160
>guys, sales are bad, we need a reboot, but for that we need a universe-changing event, you got to come up with something
>I got you, senpai, have PRIME through a tantrum and punch reality again

>>91795121
Yeah, I agree. If anything, I find Batman in his 20s, more upsetting than 40s. Mid 30s is best for me.

>>91795159
Inserting specific events does not mean they're going to suddenly make characters 10 years older nor does it mean the events happened exactly as they did when you originally read them.

You're acting like this is the first time DC has folded old stuff in. Wally and Linda will get back together but it won't be via a sudden reality change. It will happen on page. That's a gimmie for a money shot. Come on now.

>>91795159
So far barry never died.

I as hoping this would save martha

>>91795121
Most adults in their 40s have kids. They make decisions based on those kids. IRAs and payed off mortgages not leasing Maseratis while chilling in Saint-Tropez. They're thinking about practices and recitals not base jumping cliffs.

>>91795277
They're literally saying the JL has been around for 15 years. What are you arguing about? That they haven't?

I mean if you think Rich is just straight up lying it wouldn't be the first time, but taking what he says then yeah, what I'm saying is pertinent. They're bringing back years of JL history where Wally was alive and The Flash.

>>91795348
These are superheroes, anon.

>>91795121
Also, Batman Beyond was great and people remember that cartoon, in part because we got and old badass and angry Bruce.

Old Man Logan too is quite a thing in Marvel.

>>91795352
Yeah but even then not everything will come back.

>>91795398
>>91795398
Industry moved past ageism imo.

>>91795160
>Maybe he'll be redeemed once and for all in the aftermath.


I totally don't want it. I like temper tantrum superboy

>they said 5 years
>they said someone stole like 10 years
>so now it's 15 years
I can do math!

>>91795352
I'm arguing that telling us that more time has happened in the past adventures is not going to suddenly change the status quo of every fucking ongoing that just got launched a year ago. They introduced Wally and Linda not in a relationship because they want to show them getting together again.

>>91793176
Imagine having taste this bad

>>91795465
Explain why it's good

>>91795440
Too late. He already apologized in Blackest Night and that's where Johns will pick up with him if he gets used again.

DC was really stale before the N52, there were some really nice stories that I feel like couldn't have been done in the old continuity, I don't really like these changes.

Also, I have a problem with these characters aging, this was always a problem in comics, Batman is 45, he's been at it for 20 years, for how long can he keep it up? Ollie as well.

Legacy characters won't fix these problems because our favorite characters will never, ever, be gone for good. That's why I would rather have them on the younger side than on the older side.

Since the N52 started, it's been 3-4 years in universe, with Batman in his 40's again he's going to be 45 in 6 years.

Fuck.

>>91795509
In his 30s you mean? Most of the characters started in their 20s.

Even then the robin starting his career at 16 is still canon for rebirth dc.

>>91795509
>with Batman in his 40's again he's going to be 45 in 6 years.
Just say the super lazurus shit or whatever that erased his memories in endgame made him younger

>>91794190
No way Bruce has been Batman for 20+ years and Dick is only 25 anon
pre flashpoint
Dick was like in his early 30s

>>91795509
>Since the N52 started, it's been 3-4 years in universe,

It's been 3-4 years of stories + 5 for the gap between JL Origin and the present + however many years certain characters were active before that

It was already very close to 15

>>91795509
Oh, I get it. It's the same anon spamming Batman cannot be 40! over and over again.

Come on, dude. Just chill. He's middle to late 30, and will be for at least 10 more years.

Don't be a dork.

>>91794190
Wally
and co
all got married and had kids
there is no reason to think any of them weren't in their 30s pre flashpoint

>>91792198
>DC: everything lives
>Marvel: everything dies

>>91795509
Ollie could be immortal with him literally going to Heaven and then deciding he wants to be back on Earth.

>>91795583

8-9 is far from 15.

>>91795459
Which is stupid and shitty. Why try to recreate magic when it never is as good as the first time and usually sucks?

They're not retelling the other stories, they're just lazily shoving them back in to the history. Why not Wally's history?

>>91795579
I still don't get your thinking process, anon.
Bruce has been Batman for like 18 years or so, starting at 18, maybe.
Dick was robin as an early teen.
I still don't see your problem.

>>91794426
works for everyone but Batman who was 25 during his first year

>>91795609
Wally had kids in his 20s like most people. They just aged up super fast.

>>91792198
>Writers try to fix the fucked up Superman mess they created and fuck up the rest of the universe instead.

Classic.

>>91795440
I do too but if he goes out in style i wouldn't mind it tho.

He deserves the peace that was stolen from him back in 1985

>>91795509

>Legacy characters won't fix these problems because our favourite characters will never, ever, be gone for good. That's why I would rather have them on the younger side than on the older side.

Couldn't DC just do both? If they can do Batman which takes place in the future and a present time line of book. Couldn't they have books that take place in the young days of superheroes and books with their legacy?

>>91794496
they'll just reboot again
we already know DC gets pressured whenever marvel gets too successful

>>91795623
It's more than that, Bruce was active before the 9

>>91793602
You actually prefer Batman having tiny short relationships with the Robins and Damien growing up quickly because of sci-fi soap opera bullshit to Bruce being in early middle age. Wow.

>>91794535
if old as shit heroes were popular the JSA would not be gone for almost a decade now

>>91795509
>Legacy characters won't fix these problems because our favorite characters will never, ever, be gone for good. That's why I would rather have them on the younger side than on the older side.

The one time they committed to a true legacy character replacing their mentor, Wally and Barry, it was wildly successful. Kyle was moderately successful despite being a brand new character. Barry and Hal were obviously incredibly successful despite being legacies purely by name rather than connection.

Legacies can and have worked.

>>91795713

Yeah I know, Bruce started with 24 or 25. At the beginning of the N52 he's been Batman for 6 years which puts him at 30, Endgame, Damian's Death and other events added a couple of years, at least in narration, so he's 33 or 34 now. BUT he has a rejuvenated body due to ENDGAME

>>91794821
Its more like marvel is making their heroes younger and younger scooping up all the kiddie demo whereas DC characters keep getting older and older and skewing to the older demo.

This is wholesale why Marvel is always #1 ahead of DC besides their publishing tactics

Based on the new info that we know, can someone (I am not knowledgeable enough) put a timeline for the current history of the Flashfam and the Batfam that fits in the ~15 years frame, please? With this new info and the info that we know from the current rebirth series alone.

I'm not putting N52 as canon source, because it clearly didn't happen exactly as we know.

>>91792198
This sounds like an absolute clusterfuck.

>>91792198
>comic fans actually care about ages

What causes a group of people to be so autistic

>>91795738
Whatever you think, anon.

>>91795786
Marvel is winning by volume. Same shit DC did when they saturated the market with the New 52.

>>91795849
Does anyone really care about the numbers that we know? I mean: at least to me, the current sale numbers are doped as fuck because a lot of stupid marketing strategies. They want to appeal to their investors, so who knows what they really sell in the end?

>>91795655
Nope. Zero Year Bruce was 25. And Zero Year is still canon

>>91795682
It seems like trying to fix superman is always the problem with DC
They did the new 52 because superman was a mess
and now we have superman reborn messing up the stabilized rebirth

>>91795920
It's before Rebirth.
It's not.

>>91794435
It can be solved by saying "Repeat to yourself it's just a comic I should really just relax."

>>91795960
The War Of Jokes And Riddles by Tom King and Mikel Janin. Taking place in the aftermath of Year Zero

>>91795957
>They did the new 52 because superman was a mess

They did New 52 because DC was hemorrhaging sales and the higher ups demanded it. Flashpoint was only going to be a Flash arc. Remember, Geoff teased a bunch of stuff when he started his run. He put it on the back burner because of the last minute change to Flashpoint being the entry to New52.

>>91795917
Exactly. Rebirth also had a lot of returns on their momentous start that weren't appropriately calculated. Not to mention digital sales are never honestly included.

I think Marvel's definitely always going to be relatively ahead nowadays with the movie success, disney backing, and Star Wars franchise. It's not really a matter of who wins or loses anymore, it's about individual improvement and fan retention.

>>91794145
this, Wildcat deserves some paneltime

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>all this autism over the age of fictional characters

>>91796027
It may have happened differently.
A lot of stuff of New52 can, actually.

>>91796058
Hey.

It's all about resources.
There's a time and place for everything. And I think japanese imageboard's subsection about comics is the place for that.

Unless you let it consume you, it's fine.

>>91795957
No the problem is sales plus ever-changing demand and needs.

If fans actually bought the pre crisis comics or stuff never changed much post 1990, we would never been in this problem.

Proof that as time goes by, everything gets fucked up. It's why I prefer alt worlds. Or at least marvel. You can read a what if and it's never gonna get fucked up. Nor will a elseworld. Speeding bullets is one and done.

Dc should just say their main universe is a mallable reality effected by change. Because that's where they're headed towards with this rebirth thing.

A hard reboot or imprint with retro costumes and charactization is what I want.

>>91792447
Imagine Bart, Conner, and Tim staging a jail break, and sticking together to become Young Justice.

>>91792198
This timeline 5 or 15 or 10 years is so fucking confusing... Can someone explain it to me like I was 5y?

I mean I only started reading with New 52 but shit is to complicated.

> Original Post-Crisis Timeline
> Mr.Blue Remove it 5 years from it/made a reset?
> New 52 JL first arc
> Post-5 years after that
> More X years after New 52
> ???

>>91795957
>>91796034
And they were going to do a reboot with Final Crisis originally, though it likely would have been more like what we're getting now (some old things sliding in) rather than a larger scale change that the new 52 was since stuff like Dickbats would have continued through it.

>>91795670
>muh Batman isn't allowed to be old
Batman is an old fuck, get over it. Even then, he's fucking Batman, he can do cool shit into his 50's with no problem. On top of that, he just got a reconstructed body a few arcs ago after his death in Endgame.

>>91795682
If anything they actually fixed the entire timeline, only thing is the Legion and JSA are missing, as well as Tim's generation of YJ/TT.

>>91795957
>Superman was a mistake.

They really need to think harder about what makes Superman interesting. Because this jumbled everything happened nonsense is not a good look.

>>91796035
>it's about individual improvement and fan retention

Keep on moving those goal posts

>>91796058
>I need to get sexy boners from them and thats why 40 is wrong

Who does this?

>>91795957
Post-Crisis Superman was best Superman
There was nothing to fix, it's just DC's nature to constantly reboot shit every few years for some reason

>>91796169
I'll start by saying that Post-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint were not the same and you already fucked up with the first point. But many people make this mistake.

Manhattan took 10 years but they were not consecutive and caused ripples that affected things that were not directly involved therefore we got stories in a new timeline. It's not really terribly relevant on its own as a fact.

You more or less have the rest. I would estimate that X to equal about 5 in itself too, but I guess it's debatable.

>>91796177
>If anything they actually fixed the entire timeline

No it's fucked it up. Rebirth has been continuing New52 plots for several character groups. This just shakes the damn etch-a-sketch

>>91796203
What goal posts? Do you think it's impossible for both companies to be successful?

>>91796256
Post-Infinite Crisis Superman was better than Post-Crisis. The only good Byrne did was his Clark characterization.

>>91796309
>I'll start by saying that Post-Crisis and Pre-Flashpoint were not the same

What? Yes they are. The time between Crisis and Flashpoint can be described as PostCrisis or PreFlashpoint.

>>91796366
Nope. Zero hour rebooted. Then there's hypertime, infinte crisis. Final crisis.

>>91796366
No, the continuity changed multiple times. It would be as incorrect as calling the current timeline the new 52 still when things have changed again with Reborn.

>>91796404
>>91796405
And people wonder why DC is always second to Marvel

>>91796426
They rebooted because post 70s, the sales slumped. Only titans and swamp thing mattered. Marvel nearly ruled the entire industry.

Jim shooter wanted to buy out Dc at one point. Parts of a mock up bryne pitch became man of steel.

>>91792591
>I much prefer this to the alternative of rebooting and throwing a bunch of great material into the furnace.
Everything is canon in the DC universe, anon. Universes that were replaced or overwritten still happened in the DC chronology.

This isn't D*sney with Star Wars.

>>91796426
Actually anon if you remove Star Wars sales you will see DC ahead of Marvel since Rebirth

>>91796549
If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle

>>91796512
Not everything.

>>91796404
Zero Hour was not a reboot. What? Basically nothing changed in Zero Hour besides the GL title.

>>91796643
>JSA
>LoSH

>nothing changed

>>91796585
It is disingenuous to say that "marvel" is succeeding when a non-Marvel property that they get the privilege of writing is the tipping point.

It'd be like if DC suddenly got the rights to Harry Potter and leapfrogged Marvel with a bunch of Potter comics. Or transformers. I don't know a proper equivalent since Star Wars is the biggest film (and game and comic) franchise outside of the big 2.

>>91792198
> Conner Kent is the one thing removed
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DC YOU FUCKS SAVE HIM

>>91796680
You have no clue what a reboot is. I guess Identity Crisis was a reboot because it seriously changed a handful of titles?

Was annihilation a Marvel reboot?

>>91793176
>>>/r/movies

>>91796643
It destroyed the universe. Changed batmans past. Added in stuff even if minior. Changed warriors past. Remove many timelines. Merged hawkmans history. Rebooted legion.

Later on alpha centurian was folden in. Jurgens also was gonna remove crippled babs and replace hervwith non crippled babs. Whose father would have been gordon instead of the uncle orbwhayever shit it was.

>>91796734
DC has never rebooted if we go by the traditional definition, don't be stupid here. When history changes significantly we change the terminology. And Superman had several changed origins since COIE. Suggesting pre-Flashpoint and post-COIE Superman were the same is just ignorant.

>Still not Captain Marvel in sight

I know hes coming back but i just cant wait anymore

>>91796701
Disney bought Star Wars and Marvel
How do they have the "privilege" of writing them when they are owned by the same people?

>>91796755
That's not a reboot though. Define a reboot to me, in your mind. Because when I think reboot I think a linewide change and restart from a designated point. Like what Valiant did.

>>91792198

>Keeping Electric Superman canon

For fucks sake, why?

>>91796780
Everyone gets retcons. You don't redefine an era by whenever a retcon shows up. The retcons are part of the story.

Flashpoint's a reboot. They completely removed a lot of history, did shit like take significant parts of the universe out and added them in. Not to mention relaunched all their titles as #1s.

They're going to retcon it into not a reboot anymore, I guess. But it was certainly a soft reboot. Zero Hour not so much. Zero Hour was just a storyline, and like many storylines, it caused some changes.

>everything is canon

Meh couldn't care less desu, I'm just wondering how stories will play out after everything is all said and done

>>91796855
Everything is canon

God bless DC

>>91794435
what country are you from

>>91796804
Dc refers all history merging events or reality changing events as reboots.

Be they soft or hard.

That's Crisis, Zero Hour, Infinte crisis, flashpoint. Less so for final crisis which only erased out the monitors and the changes in those books.

They also introduce stuff that contradicts previous comics. Infinte crisis did so with restoring wonder womans past and her jla adventures.

Zero Hour fucked around with joe chill and removed the catwoman hooker past and removed year 2.

>>91795630
>Why try to recreate magic when it never is as good as the first time
This is how I know you haven't been reading comic books for very long.

>>91796956
DC themselves do not treat Zero Hour as a reboot. They didn't go redoing their entire line around Zero Hour. It was an event comic that had some effect on a handful of comics like any event comic.

Retconning some Batman history isn't a reboot. Do you think when Waid invented the Speed Force, a masssssive retcon, it rebooted the Flash franchise? Of course not.

No one was the same character all the way from Crisis to Flashpoint, sure, but they were largely similar. Post Crisis Superman is largely similar to the dude who existed right before Flashpoint. Flashpoint Superman is WAY different with basically everything about his history changed.

Retcons alter parts of a character's history, reboots alter nearly everything and then also change the character significantly on top of that. That's why when people talk about Flashpoint they say they rebooted everything BUT Green Lantern and Batman, despite the fact that Flashpoint still necessarily retconned a lot of their history.

>>91796426
a nickel has been deposited into your account

>>91797112
Let me rephrase, why would they make comics about Wally West at all? :^)

>>91797180
>:^)
This is how I know you're a faggot from reddit

>>91797202
Actually, I think he's a classic 4chan troll. That has been a sarcastic emoticon here since at least 2008.

>>91797202
Reddit loves Wally West

Also :^) is 4chan through and through ya fag

>>91797154
No one said anything about retcons. Retcons are just adding in things we didnt know.

Directly removing something while comtridicting a pervious story is rebooting. Even on a smaller level.


Convergence also treated it as one of the reboot points.

When marvel does it, the universs is the same universe with nothing removed or added in via universe reset. Well before secret wars.

>>91797154
>Post Crisis Superman is largely similar to the dude who existed right before Flashpoint. Flashpoint Superman is WAY different with basically everything about his history changed.

To honestly believe this you must not have read any Superman comics at all. Infinite Crisis in particular retconned fucking everything. Krypton, his upbringing, the Daily Planet, all his villains, his relationship with the LoSH. How could you call it the same? What the actual fuck are you talking about?

The only thing Flashpoint did was take it a step further and also make him unmarried, but almost everything changed there just as much as it changed in the previous step.

>>91797296
Retcons are frequently altering stuff, not just adding stuff you didn't know.

>>91796734
well Zero Hour literally rebooted the LOSH, but not the DCU proper

>>91797327
Because it was a guy going through the process of learning about those changes.

With Flashpoint one day he was this version of Superman and the next he was completely different. His life had been rewound to the start of his career. That's not what happened with Infinite Crisis Superman even if he was changed significantly.

One is writing changes into a character through storytelling devices. The other is just starting over apropo of nothing but saying "Well this is the new universe now so here's a new Superman."

>>91797392
Yeah. I'll grant you LOSH being rebooted (happens often enough). But it was definitely not a universal reboot.

>>91797425
There was no real process. All of those things in his status quo besides the marriage were just reset. Like the next time we saw the Daily Planet it was treated as normal even though that's not how they acted before. The next time he fought the villains it was framed as if it was just their first appearance. When he met up with the LoSH it was just treated as if he was always in the LoSH as a kid and the memories were just blocked.

Just because he was still mid-career and married Superman doesn't mean that he was anything close to the same guy in a meaningful way. If you're discussing which version of Superman you like you can't say any of that continuity was the same as the stuff being published 10 years before it when it was very distinctly different.

>>91797634
Yeah but those aren't reboots, and that's not a universal reboot. Even if you're right ( and I don't think you are), that's not DC rebooting their universe.

But Superman was largely the same dude. One year before and one year after infinite crisis isn't NEAR the same level of difference as one year before Flashpoint and one year after Flashpoint.

One's a retcon ridden mess, one's a straight up reboot.

>>91797737
I guess more to me it is a reboot because it didn't have in-story explanation beyond "his personal history has been changed". It doesn't matter if the new Superman that comes out the other end is still in the same point of his career as the previous one when the stuff that matters has been largely thrown out with the flip of a switch. To contrast, Supergirl when Gates came on did have things change but that was an in-story explanation of kryptonite poisoning causing some strange superpowers and memories getting messed up; that's a pure retcon and not a reboot.

But anyway I'm just overly explaining why post-Crisis Superman is not the same as pre-Flashpoint Superman to me. I think you get my viewpoint now and we'll just have to agree to disagree.

>>91797370
Nope. Ret cons mean retro active contuinity. Adding in the blanks or saying something you knew was wrong.

These crisis event just take something that we already knew and throw it out as if it never existed. Not even retconed as lies either.

>>91794152
That's unfortunate. I liked the Khalid stories

>>91797936
Zero Hour didn't throw out the entire DC continuity like it never existed. Very, very little in the grand scheme of things changed after zero hour. DC didn't reboot their universe with it like you seem to think.

File: Impulse03.jpg (77KB, 400x620px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 400x620px

>>91796151
Only if we get an Impulse: Rebirth out of it.

>>91798006
Change is change, any fucking change that alters or erases characters out is change.

Wake me up when Earth 1 comes back. That's all I give a fuck about.

>>91798381
"Stuff changes" isn't a reboot tho.

>>91798381
>black steve trevor
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>91795617
when did that happen

>>91794855
sorry that ship has sailed if you've been reading the current green lantern, he's pure sjw

>>91798451
worth it for the chain joke

File: AH_HA_HA_HA_HA_HAH.gif (2MB, 500x373px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x373px

>>91798547
I have not.
And I choose to put my indexes in my ears and go
>lalalallalalalala
in the corner, if you don't mind.

Sorta related, pic related could play a good arrow.