Comic books and people born 1995 and after.

>>91791531
No idea, i was born in '97 and i buy over 20 series a month, with most of them being bi-monthlies

I guess all you need to do is be a socially awkward teen who likes Superheros

>>91791531
I mostly pirate and buy trades and back issues for things that haven't been collected but I still want to own.

I think you have to most that birthdate up like 5 years to get the people who absolutely had everything available. My sisters were mid 90s birthdates and they didn't start streaming stuff until they got into high school.

I understand that floppies provide some cost certainty for companies so they don't want them to die entirely, but if new people are buying trades instead it doesn't seem like a huge concern. They're still making money. The question marks is whether stuff like Marvel Unlimited is actually good for companies or not. Marvel doesn't sell as well as the other companies in bookstores and that might be why.

>>91791531
I am not from 1995 or after, but my little brother is. He simply likes TPBs over floppies because they contain the story in an easy to read format, its easier to resell so he can buy more TPBs, but most important of all, he got used to Manga Volumes and TPBs are almost like that. He still complains about having trouble following the story over TPBs, especially if you dont know exactly what goes next.

>>91791650
Op here. Yes, maybe 95 is a bit too early. But there was some anon here who laid out very well why floppies are so important to comics companies, maybe someone who sees this thread can do the same.

The thing is though, I know some of the people working at my LCS and they have a rather limited group of people who have pull lists, and it's mainly the same people that been doing that for years. They only get a few new regulars who buy floppies each year, I don't have the exact number though.

Meanwhile, their tpb sales are better than ever, with people of all fucking kinds coming in buying all sorts of tpbs.

As someone who is basically on the fence of being a gen-y and millennial 1994 late B-day

I inherited all these fucking shelves from my family. I don't like really reading books, any actual books I just read on my Ipad, but with comic books I like to hold them and flip through the pages.

I've recently started buying comics, they really fill up my shelves quite nicely. I really don't like floppies they are ugly to have on the shelves I have to keep them a box.

Collecting and reading trades has become a nice hobby. I can read a full arc and put it on my shelf and collect them. It's good stuff.

Never saw the appeal of floppies really.

>>91791531
Paper is dead, embrace the digital.
Multiple anthologies behind cheap monthly subscriptions.

>>91791650
>>91791972
Floppies are essential to the industry. Trades and digital might sell well, but remember that these pretty much depend on pre-existing material which is first published in monthlies. Take the recent Mockingbird, for example. It sold well in trades, IIRC, but that doesn’t matter jack shit if the collection comes after the book was cancelled. The book won’t be making back, much less with Chelsea Cain writing it. It might not be the best example given the controversy, but it’s a relevant and recent example.
The direct market by its very nature NEEDS retailers pre-ordering the books they think will sell. If floppies don’t sell, titles are cancelled and in some cases no trades are even printed.

I’ve been reading some essays about the state of the comics industry, which propose something like a Crunchyrool model and that’s an idea I’m starting to support. Digital release of the books with a low cost barrier of entry. For those who prefer physical copies, I think the way to go are anthologies with a higher page count, and lower price. Have lower quality paper if need be. Then, release trades collecting a run of issues from individual titles in glossy, high-quality paper. I think this is a relatively sane system.

If you’re interested in those essays:
https://spacetwinks.itch.io/shut-the-fuck-up-marvel
https://spacetwinks.itch.io/the-problems-with-comics

>>91792664
The only times I can recall TPB sales saving a series is Runaways and Slott's She-Hulk.

It was weird when the last issue of Slott's original She-Hulk run said, "Don't worry, we'll be back in a few months" or something ot that effect.

>>91792664
>I think the way to go are anthologies with a higher page count, and lower price. Have lower quality paper if need be. Then, release trades collecting a run of issues from individual titles in glossy, high-quality paper. I think this is a relatively sane system.

I think you may be right, but imagine the outrage from a lot of fans about muh quality paper and shit.

Flat fee access to all comics 1 year and older with a la carte upcharges for current titles. So like 9.99 for all comics, then an extra 2 dollars a month per title.

>>91793799
Again this is a bad idea if it's really costing Marvel tens of millions right now. We need to know how well Marvel Unlimited truly performs.

>>91792664
The direct market is a cancer that needs to die. Diamond is a fucking parasitic company. If a shop is actually good and well liked it will survive after Diamond is killed.

>>91793843
>blah blah blah direct market needs to die
>blah blah blah Diamond needs to die

You don't even have a fucking solution other than these tired, repetitive whinefests you post. Yeah, we already know Diamond has serious problems but if you get rid of it and have nothing as a replacement, it's going to be more fucked.

>>91791531
How do you sell books?
How do you sell magazines?
How do you sell newspapers?
How do you sell music?
How do you sell movies?
How do you sell TV shows?
How do you sell video games?
How do you sell software?
Answer one of those well and you probably have a decent guideline for the OP, and all the rest.

>>91791531

I buy floppies but I usually wait until an arc is finished before I start reading them considering it takes less than a minute or so to read the actual issue.

>>91791531
Trades are the way to go.

I pirate all of my single issues and then buy the trades of what runs I enjoyed.

I understand this is industry cancer but the industry is built like a pellet feeder for people who live in warehouses.

I'd rather fill my bookshelf than fill a box/cabinet with bag and boarded single issues. I see no personal or monetary value in it.

Eventually the American comic market will look more like the Franco-Belgian; we'll be getting one to three 100-page trades / OGNs / albums a year.

>>91794087
QFT

The only issues I ever buy is in the 25 cent section where I manged to acquire all of ROM Spaceknight and West Coast Avengers after nearly 2 years of searching through every comic store in my county.

>>91791531
>meanwhile TPB sales having been growing rather steadily the past decade

And it seems to me part of the recent business model is to keep increasing the price of TPBs. The 'per issue' price has notably increased.

>>91791531
Floppies had their function when they were self contained stories aimed for kids

That concept has been dying since the 80s and it's on the border of collapse for the big two now that completely new people are getting into comics

Trades are much more popular now, specially for indie titles that are often 6 or 12 floppy issues. That in a trade is a perfect fit.

Ultimately, the comic industry is not in crisis. It's thriving. We are getting experimental (for the US market) formats like Island which hasn't seen use since the heavy metal clones of the 80s. And more variety that even /co/ can handle.

This is ultimately a big two crisis. The only reason marvel hasn't collapsed is because of disney money. DC performs well but it's also seeing less floppy sales each year.

The best thing to do now is either adopting an european format of whole self contained arcs in one single volume (basically mini trades). Find a middle way between trades and floppies and of course push the digital market, speciañly with suscriptions like most companies do.

The market has changed. The rule of the game is adapt or die and the cape comapnies are edging dangerous close to the latter.

>>91794200
It seems like comics are currently too niche for that system to really work here.
This one explanation of it: http://www.comicsbeat.com/a-publishers-view-of-ogn-page-rates-economics/

Honestly the current system isn't bad though. Just needs floppies to be slightly cheaper and for trades to come out faster.

>>91792664
The Big 2 are sitting on decades of runs that they haven't put in to trade form. There is more than enough demand for them despite what they say. Those that they do decide to send to print, they print in such a limited supply that they're sold out in most major online retailers just from pre-orders. These are then rarely, if ever, given a second or third printing.

At least for us living in sort of remote countries it's kinda the only way to go about things. There's no comic book retailers here at all, so I have to either spend a fortune getting single issues, buy a bunch of TPBs every now and then, or buy digital.
I usually just end up ordering a whole bunch of TPBs every 5-6 months of off amazon while enjoying the storytimes posted here in between.

Make anthologies ! Detective, Action, Sensation, All-Star etc with well known heroes headlining and stories with lesser known characters as backup.

Lose the floppies and issue a volume by volume set up like the Earth One series. Not a reboot, just a change in sales model. These can be your Batman, Nightwing, etc. It makes sure that people will buy these things and get a bang for their buck.

Earmark certain stories for kids and young adults: Shazam, Blue Beetle, Robin, Supergirl....these can be floppies, but with lower quality paper - and sell them at newsstands.

Fuck Diamond Comics, and enough reliance on the 'LCS'. Comics should be a cheap and widely spread medium, not a fucking niche product. It's fucking ridiculous that when comic book movies are so popular the most popular books are selling cancellation levels from the 1970s. That's a failure of the industry. The stupid industry has focused too much on canon, and not on how to get more people to actually read these damn stories.

>>91792664
I knew the direct market was fucked up but never to this extent

It's fucking disheartening. Disney do something for god's sake.

>>91798225

yeah, real mess.

"legitimate publishing," ie novels and such, finds comics to be an absolute shitshow

>>91798012
Thanks monopolies for that french bro

Marvel and DC became too fucking big and destroyed the whole industty for the sake of short term profit.

Who do you think created the direct market?

>>91791531
Do what Injustice did and move to weekly releases online with limited print copies monthly or bimonthly. Encourage people to buy online subscriptions and sell compilations with extras like writer/artist commentary and digital codes. Physical media is becoming a niche industry in general.

>>91798012
speaking as someone who legitimately never buys floppies, i'd be way more inclined to pick up an anthology. it'd feel more like a value for my buck and would be a nice way to check out a bunch of series at once.

I think I'm the only person on 4chan who buys tons (I have over 3000) floppies and plenty back, key issues because I prefer reading the actual first printing of stories and not reprints. I do buy silver/gold collections of stories for ease of reading though. If comic published digital only I wouldn't spend a cent on them.

>>91798225
>It's fucking disheartening. Disney do something for god's sake.

The thing to remember is how absolutely tiny the mainstream American comics industry is. Even if Marvel is doing well Disney has more change in the couches at their HQ. They could not give less of a shit what happens to Marvel itself, it exists solely as an IP farm for them to make more lucrative projects like movies and toys with.

Disney won't let Marvel completely collapse because that would be bad PR that might affect their actual moneymakers, but beyond that they won't lift a finger for the actual comics.

>>91799339
You're not the only one. If they went digital only I would only steal them. I do the same for digital only music.

>>91793955
Yea it will be a difficult upheaval, with change is strife, but a switch to mainly digital and direct sales by company to individual stores is the answer, it keeps production costs to a bare minimum. The real answer is that people don't fucking buy comics and we're basically letting diamond get fat sucking the last dollars out of the industry while it dies.

>>91794288
Lol tite

Heres what I would do..
>switch entire line to newsprint with a $ 0.99 cover price.
>ban all employees from using social media during their employment.
>Get Disneys weight behind wrestling away some rack space from the tabloids at Wal-Mart. Get as many rack spots as I could, lets say 3, and rotate titles that we sell for these locations every few months. This will lead to readers seeking out LCS to check out other titles.

Oh, and I might would start a Marvel TPB Book Club along the lines of the old CD and movie and novel clubs where members would receive a new TPB once per month at a big discount price, like $7 each perhaps. Big discounts with a paid membership type set up.

Thats really all they have to do.

>>91799824

newsprint isn't significantly cheaper enough to justify 99c

>>91799912
i thought so too but there is a company that just started doing newsprint titles for, i think, $2. Thats $2 price point for a very small company with, like, 4 titles. the big two could definitively do it cheaper. youll have to google the possible company name as i cant remember, but it was just a couple of months ago i came across the article...somewhere.

NVm...heres the story,
http://www.newsarama.com/32580-one-publisher-returning-to-newsprint-for-comic-book-printing.html

>>91791531
95 here, I don't buy floppies.
It's a shitty format, and unjustifiably expensive for how shitty it is.

I get the preference for TPBs especially in regards to complete story arcs, however there's something to be said about the appeal of a contained issue or one-shot. Bargain bins and the like, too. Its a great way to try out new things, or certain things just work well as a solo piece.

>>91791531
What are TPB again? Sorry if that's dumb I'm just ad with abbreviations.

>>91792053
Doesn't marvel have something like that?

>>91792053
i would never pay for a digital song or comic. i would pay for a marvel unlimited type service.

>>91800440
Comics that are bound with glue in a spine (like a traditional book) instead of bound with staples (like a floppy pamphlet).

>>91800440

trade paperbacks;

it's a term from the publishing industry for any book that isn't mass market paperback size

Piracy. No source of income and everyone says that they are not worth buying.

>>91800501
>>91800500
Oh ok, thanks .Sorry again if that was dumb to ask.

Bundle them with cereal boxes

>>91791531
I started with floppies in the mid 70's, got out of comics in the mid-90's, and started re-collecting good stuff in Hardcover and Tpb when Hardcover wan't a possibility.

I can't see floppies ever selling better than they are today; they have nowhere to go but down.

>>91799912
>>91800207
Brevoort (so, grain of salt) said that the cost of printing a comic for Marvel is around 30 cents.

The price break down of a $4 comic is roughly:

$1.8 to the store
$.60 to diamond
$.30 to printing
$1.30 to Marvel, to pay for the editors, the creators, the ads, etc.

>>91800997
>>91799912
Yea it's not that newsprint isn't that much cheaper, percentage wise I think its, but that there's not that much room to gain from printing costs in the first place.

I was born '95, and I buy a 5-8 floppies a month
The thing that got me into them was my local library, they get a stack of 50-70 every month, but it's a few months behind
2/3 of it was marvel and Dc, then there were kids cartoon comics and a few Archies and sometimes some random minis
So I read comics there for a few years then started buying my own

If all libraries had stacks of comics and all children were introduced to them at age 7-9 like I was the market would probably sustain itself for decades

>>91800997
When (what year) did he write this?

>How do you sell the business model of monthly, or even bi-monthly comic books to people who grew up with being able to watch any movie they'd like [....]
Frankly, you can't. The technology has outpaced the industry's ability to accommodate and there's no real solution that doesn't fuck over the shops, any publisher that isn't DC or Marvel, and the writers and artists.

Anthologies are a non-solution because the format is really only of interest to creators and comic enthusiasts nowadays, as the selling point obviously isn't the stories running in them. For all the initial hoopla around Island, it sold like shit because it was ultimately a $8 magazine headlined by talent the comic shops didn't take to.

>>91801831
2014/2015? I stopped following his Tumblr before Secret Wars, so before then.

>>91799465
Mate, the while american comics undustry is affected by the direct market

If it's small, it's because the direct market hinders growth

Hell, didn't the 80s 'alternative to making money' comix apprear after th edirect market set in

>>91801916
>Anthologies are a non-solution because the format is really only of interest to creators and comic enthusiasts nowadays, as the selling point obviously isn't the stories running in them. For all the initial hoopla around Island, it sold like shit because it was ultimately a $8 magazine headlined by talent the comic shops didn't take to.

Anthologies DO work. You just have to do it the way that the manga industry does: the *only* way you're getting your shonen bullshit as soon as it's available is by buying an anthology magazine. Otherwise, you have to wait quite a while.

Making anthologies of comics that people wouldn't really care about defeats the entire purpose. For an anthology to work, there has to be at least one consistent thing in it that readers truly care about.

The American industry makes anthologies even more difficult because, with their biggest IPs, they usually ship multiple books with the same exact crap. Multiple Bat-books, multiple X-Men books, multiple Spider-books, etc. etc. If you want the anthology format to truly work, you'll have to make a big gamble and shut down those various copycat series, so the **only** way someone can read (for instance) Batman is by reading "Justice League Monthly".

If they do that and then make the price reasonable (maybe 5 dollars, no more than 6), they'd have something people would buy on a month-to-month basis.

Because, seriously, who the hell would pay $8 a month for stories about literal-whos, written and drawn by literal-whos?

>>91802405
Huh.

Honestly, I would pay $8 a month for a "Justice League Monthly" with a few comics of all the jla memebers in there, rather than buying the floppies separstely.

>>91791531
I was born in '98 and got into comics because I grew up with the X Men trilogy and Iron Man and all the other MCU movies.

I thought it was a... natural step. Back in 8th grade I thought everyone was getting into comics because they loved the movies so much. But they weren't, just me and some kid called Aaron who really loved Waypool and would bring in his comics so we could read together. But regardless of his bad taste, he was cool cause he used to bring in his iPad and if you had the Marvel app you could scan the comic and it'd become interactive, had sound effects and shit. Shit was neat.

So yeah, if massive, box office smashing movies that nearly everyone under the age of 25 unanimously loves and cool apps don't get people into buying comics I really don't know what will.

Also sometimes they're really expensive depending on where you are, I like in Australia and even though DC comics are like $2 in the US, I used to have to buy from for $6-$7 from some newsagency, dunno if that was just the assholes who ran it marking them up, but that's how it was.

>>91802405
>If you want the anthology format to truly work, you'll have to make a big gamble and shut down those various copycat series, so the **only** way someone can read (for instance) Batman is by reading "Justice League Monthly".
That'll never happen to the mainline characters, and it'd be a good way to kill off enthusiasm and momentum for anything else. Legends of Tomorrow wasn't even that long ago, and that was essentially a grab bag of several miniseries that probably got shafted in the wake of Convergence/DCYou.

Born 95: I used to buy Hellboy trades when I was a kid, but now I just pirate everything. The only exception was the printed homestuck books in high school, digital versions of the OOTS comics, and both a digital and physical copy of the first KSBD book. So the answer for me was putting your comic on the internet for free, and creating a personal web presence so I feel like I owe you for the free entertainment. Tom Siddell has no personal presence in my life, and I've never felt an urge to purchase the GC books, despite having read it for ever.

>>91791643
>implying I'm socially awkward
how dare you

i mean you're right, but how dare you

>>91803863
The legends of Tomorrow miniseries got shafted by the fact that DCYou completely failed

>>91802405
I legit would never buy anthologies and I don't understand people who do. I can't comprehend paying for things you don't want.

>>91791531
I think the description fits 2000 and after better but whatever floats your boat

So we have:

>Trades selling better than ever, not only in LCS's but on Amazon, traditional bookstore outlets and digital.
>Merch makes DC and Marvel billions. Or maybe rather Time Warner and Disney
>However, floppy sales slip a little each year.

I think what >>91798657 suggested would be a good direction to go in. Injustice is a real big seller weekly on comixology and the weekly issues keeps people interested.

>>91791531
haven't you learned anything from the last two years.

the answer is simple, you don't. people in the 30's money is just as green.

>>91792664
>people aren't buying the low-cost productions anymore
>the low-cost productions helped fund the high-cost productions later on
>this also helped find the market for the high-cost production, reducing risk
>whoops, it's all falling apart

Welcome to the film industry's plight circa mid-1980's. Hope you like spectacularly bland shit.

>>91791531
Blockbuster was a thing before piracy and yet people went to the cinema and bought DVDs
The way to get people into comics is grab them while they are kids, the younger the better. Lots of people grow up with the wrong idea about comics
Then you accept that most people will pirate but some people will like what they pirate enough to want to own a physical version