Moonstone Thread

File: 1484611022625.png (1MB, 1437x972px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1437x972px

>>91749689
Is she just evil Carol?

By evil i mean amoral.

Just adding a sexy Songbird.

>>91750913
>Is she just evil Carol?
No.

File: Moonstone-Marvel-Comics-Karla-Sofen-Masters-Evil-a.jpg (124KB, 500x1215px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 500x1215px

Karla is a great character who's been badly worked over since Bendis wrote Warren Ellis fanfiction on his Dark Avengers, and could do with some rehab under a good writer AKA not fucking Jim Zub.

I'll throw out an unpopular opinion too: the headfin costume was the shit.

>>91750913

Nope. Karla's a darn good character. She's mostly amoral, but she did get close to rehabiliting towards Clint's reign of the T-Bolts.

She's generally the "bad girl". She's hot and she knows it, so she flaunts it, she enjoys the carnal pleasures and once every blue moon will do something noble.

Much as I liked Bendis' Dark Avengers (I hate Bendis, but the DA banter was nice), he did murder her characterization, like every other character.

She needs to be in a high profile book again, and this time not stuck with D-Lister Jim Zub. She'd rock in a Secret Avengers book.

TL;DR: She's Marvel's Catwoman (in her early, more villainous days) as far as characterization goes. It's just that Carol has no villains, so they stuck Karla in there during Dark Reign.

>>91751548
On the hand I feel like she could have an interesting dynamic with Kamala but on the other hand I don't think Wilson would do a good job on Karla.

>>91751548
I think there's a bit more to it than that. Karla's strongly influenced by the people around her and also has the psych angle. I think she's very different from Catwoman.

Then again you liked Dark Avengers so your opinion on literally everything can't be trusted.

>>91751622
That take works for me. She was at her purest when she was surrounded by Hallie, Clint and the other classic Bolts. Even Zemo wasn't that terrible anymore after he got some character development, so she was largely with people who were actively trying to do good and get better.

File: 668822-our_heroes.jpg (154KB, 888x661px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 888x661px

>>91751618

Yeah, thanks but no thanks. Keep my dear Karla away from millenial books.

>>91751622

Yeah, I was just doing a "TL;DR" version of her. She's quite a good character, and it'll be a shame that she'll probably end up as the B-Tier antagonist of the Carol flick.

Eh, I liked the first 6 or so issues. Mainly the parts where they sat around in the Tower and bickered. I'm gonna be honest, and say that I'm a huge sucker for Dark Reign. The execution was awful, but the concept was just too good.

I'm a villainfag (always was, always will be), so I'll never pass on the opportunity to read some villain books, be they good or mediocre.

>>91751727

Zemo got dealt a baaaaad hand post Born Better. But I'm liking Spencer's version. HYDRA!Cap is just a gem amongst Marvel's trashcan.

I'm just hoping for a HYDRA book with Zemo, Karla, HYDRA!Steve, Superior Octopus and the like (maybe Doom as well?) Post-Secret Empire.

>>91751727
My interpretation is that even Karla herself doesn't really know if she wants to be a hero or a villain, so she just kind of rolls with whatever batch of "friends" she's currently aligned with are doing.

What's a shame about Karla is that she's one of those characters who is complex in that it might take more than one sentence to explain her, so most people completely derp out by the second line, and writers tend to water her down into a generic bitch.

>>91751548
I like to think she knows she is redundant as a superhero.

"Does the world need a another flying blonde bombshell? No. I'm gonna have fun instead."

She is a much better character then Carol, wish they would use her more.

>>91751819
>I'm just hoping for a HYDRA book with Zemo, Karla, HYDRA!Steve, Superior Octopus and the like (maybe Doom as well?) Post-Secret Empire.

I am a bit amused that Bucky being on the team managed to be so awful that joining Hydra was a step up for them.

>>91752865

Take ut the whole "psychiatrist leading her patients to suicide" bit, and she's the perfect "everyman". A Moonstone book could be darned good if it was focused on her tiptoing the line between good and evil. I mean, if anybody looked like that and had superpowers, chances are, he/she'd get into the "make fast cash" bizz.

>>91753044

After Brubaker left, Bucky got turned into a shit-tier character. After the MCU Bucky appeared, he got turned into a gutter-tier character.

Honestly, HYDRA is a huge step-up from the current Marvel U. It's just funny that the best thing they're offering now is just reheated scraps from Hickman's unfinished mini.

And honestly, Villains were always more interesting than Heroes, especially in the capeshit. I dislike the edgelords, and love me some Golden Age hamminess, but the well-written villains are always miles better than even the best written heroes. Gimme villain books and take my heart.

>Usually saw Carol threads
>Usually saw StarGirl threads
>Now this

/co/ love his waifus blond?

>>91753397

I can't speak for the rest of /co/, but I love mine raven haired. Although blondes (and especially platinums) are a close second (pale/at most semi-tanned white skin always). My main weakness are bad bitches though, so naturally Karla's at the top of my Marvel list.

>>91753044
F

>>91753334
I don't see Moonstone as an everyman character. Putting aside the whole qualified psychiatrist bit she has these serious mommy issues going on too. Which plays into how she often acts up as Team Mom too.

>>91753805

I was playing at the whole "I got powers, and I'm gonna use them for myself" bit. Kinda like the hook on so many "down on their luck shmucks" books, but with a character who's actually super-powered.

Every character has special issues and whatnot, but take away the crazy killer angle, and you've got a fine lady with super-powers who wants to have fun, be in charge and doesn't care about the law that much.

There's certainly a story somewhere there.

>>91753334
>And honestly, Villains were always more interesting than Heroes, especially in the capeshit. I dislike the edgelords, and love me some Golden Age hamminess, but the well-written villains are always miles better than even the best written heroes. Gimme villain books and take my heart.

Because villains are failed human beings it's easy to like them. They don't repress their emotions and do what they like so there is a relatable degree of honesty in their actions.

Any Avenger or X-men that smokes weed? I can imagine the Wrecking Crew or Bullseye doing it.

File: f1b70ad1dbbc4b175b97f0ff50e6981b.jpg (164KB, 601x923px) Image search: [Google]

164KB, 601x923px

>>91753962
That's why people love the Marvel version of Hercules, or Jamie Madrox, or Aaron Stack. They're colossal fuckups.

>>91751778
Damn they all have muscles in the muscles

>>91753962

For me the Villains were always more proactive. They had plans and they enforced them. Be they good (see your Dooms, Modern Zemos and whatnot), purely selfish (Moonstone, Daario Agger, etc) or plain evil (Bullseye, Joker and whatnot), they went ahead and acted.

Meanwhile, most heroes just wait around for a catastrophe to happen. Which is bogus, really. Stark does some company stuff when editorial allows it, and Cap regularly hunts down terrorist cells, but the heroes never felt like "real people", you know?

And yeah, like you said, as time went on, they made the too "clean". I liked the fact that Tony was a bit of a chauvinist pig who liked fucking beautiful women, flaunting his goods and whatnot. I liked the fact that he was so overprotective of his tech he was willing to beat up heroes. It made him feel like an actual character. And now he's willing to share all of his stuff with a random 15 YO girl. it's just bad writting, period.

And really, the villains were always realistic. Imagine you're a super-wealthy, attractive, super-powered, supergenius human being. Chances are, even if you set out to do good, you're still gonna have an air of arrogance.

I can appreciate the paragons, but when that extends to every character, it becomes boring.

Personally, I loved that bit in Hickman's Cabal Doom Story where he fantasizes about chaining Fem!Loki and Emma Frost to his dungeon and making them sex slaves. Writers go out of their way to make him "noble", and while he may very well be an "anti-villain", exterting his dominion over others and considering women so beneath him that they'll become his sex slaves is totally in line for such an egotistical character. I can appreciate the noble traits, but he needs that creepiness as well. Take all of his villainous characteristics and you're left with jackshit. Just don't go all Waid...

>>91754048

This. And that's why people loved Tony Pre-CW, and especially Pre-RDJ. He was an unapologetic capitalist, overprotective of his brand, arrogant, a bit sexist and generally a real person. Anyone with his upbringing, resources, looks and brain, no matter how good-hearted they were, they'd still be cunts. He was Don Draper before Don Draper was a thing (yeah yeah, Howard Hughes, I know).

>>91754185
>Meanwhile, most heroes just wait around for a catastrophe to happen. Which is bogus, really. Stark does some company stuff when editorial allows it, and Cap regularly hunts down terrorist cells, but the heroes never felt like "real people", you know?

Cap is a soldier. Tony is an engineer / businessman in charge of (inter)national security.

The rest are usually super cops product of a modern liberal culture.

I'm a big fan of Armond White and he wrote a good essay on cops and film a while back which could easily apply to cape comic books: http://www.firstofthemonth.org/to-observe-and-project/

He opens with a quote from the Simpons:
“When Marge first told me she was going to the police academy, I thought it was going to be fun and exciting. You know, like that movie Spaceballs. Instead, it’s been painful and disturbing. You know, like that movie Police Academy.”
-Homer Simpson

Excerpt:
"Denials of the continuing abuse of police power as just ‘an aberration’ suggest that folks’ political perspectives are a deeply intertwined mix of misrepresented real life crises and social fantasy. Projecting audience’s unconscious political whims on to official authority figures has been part of movie-watching tradition since westerns. Our politically evasive cop movies (and TV shows) mutated from earlier, more socially aware crime and gangster genres. Modern cop movies, though, don’t simply justify police authority, they secrete the anxieties of a diverse and divided nation. Dominant social groups seek a sustained illusion of orderliness to bolster their confidence. This same need persists in Hollywood and Harlem where other, subjugated groups find themselves attracted to displays of force they lack yet still envy."

>>91754566

That's a dang good analysis, but the point is, after a while, if you take all their flaws away 'cause "muh billion dollar MCU", they become interchangable caricatures.

File: 1445321445109.jpg (24KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 400x400px

>>91754566
>I'm a big fan of Armond White

File: machine man.jpg (58KB, 523x488px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 523x488px

>>91754048

>aaron stack
>a fuckup

are you sure?

>>91749689
> We never got to see her put Carol in her dungeon.

;_;

>>91754761
Damn proud

File: Namnlös.png (2MB, 1256x1288px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1256x1288px

>>91754849

File: yeahsure.jpg (409KB, 1229x1278px) Image search: [Google]

409KB, 1229x1278px

>>91754849
I am.

>>91754566
>>91754761
>>91755080
Pity what happened to him.

Toy Story 2 seemed to be the breaking point where he came an actual contrarian (shitting on universally liked films to get a reaction, praising universally hated films to get a reaction) and generally fighting any sort of popular consensus wherever he could find one, regardless of any merits to either side of an argument.

Nowadays he just bitches at people on Twitter.

>>91754896
This

File: Moonstone46.jpg (496KB, 1600x1224px) Image search: [Google]

496KB, 1600x1224px

>>91751778
The biggest problem with Dark Reign Karla was that both Bendis and Brian Reed forgot that "villains pretending to be heroes" should have been a very familiar and conflicting situation for Moonstone. There was no pressures toward becoming a hero for real and Karla wasn't gaming the team in a meaningful at all.

Was it ever spelled out why Karla got Marvel Boy to leave the team?

Think my favorite take on the character was the Assault on Avengers Mansion and her friction with Zemo. Finally, one of the metahuman minions asks why they're following orders from a baseline human. Unfortunately for her, Zemo had the darkforce manipulator Blackout under his mental control so had a very powerful enforcer.

Their interplay for control of the Masters of Evil was a fun read.

Hey Moonstone! Remember when you got shot with an arrow by American Eagle and Venom had to drag you away to safety like a punk? I remember! It was great!

>>91759713
Sex confused and terrified him, I assume.

>>91759713
>>91760581
Also I never noticed when I actually did read this through but that is one ugly fucking layout. What is that doing for anyone? Was it just a script calling for a bunch of talking heads and Deodato was like, I've gotta at least put the bed in, please.

That fucking portrait over the bed too. God damn.

File: Moonstone12.jpg (159KB, 672x1008px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 672x1008px

>>91760581
I just realized that Marvel Boy has fucked both Moonstone and Fem Hawkeye.

>>91759731
Moonstone shattering Zemo's jaw was a very good Thunderbolts moment too.

>>91760474
So was this, honestly. I wish American Eagle would pop back up in Marvel.

>>91760697
Satanna grabbing her bobos also.

>>91751618

keep your shithuman to yourself bro. nobody wants that.

File: d508f225d9480af6e8cf80165490e5cd.jpg (182KB, 1080x785px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 1080x785px

>>91761869
>MUH X-MEN

File: ThatOneTimeAtBadGuyCamp.jpg (194KB, 600x922px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 600x922px

>>91761716

File: Moonstone77.jpg (481KB, 1024x1551px) Image search: [Google]

481KB, 1024x1551px

>>91761869
Kamala needs a bad mentor.

>>91762252

your shit characters are going back into obscurity, one way or the other.

File: Moonstone78.jpg (543KB, 1024x1579px) Image search: [Google]

543KB, 1024x1579px

>>91762252

Dark Reign did a number on her. And it wasn't just Bendis in Dark Avengers. For the most part that wasn't all that bad on her character. Sure she wasn't being manipulative and slutting it up a whole lot, but she wasn't going around just killing for the fun of it. Instead, she was just killing people for the fun of it in the Ms. Marvel (You know Danvers) book at the time which was really just stupid.


Though thinking about it, I don't really remember too much about the book. Durring Dark Reign, most of the Dark Avengers were being subversive to Osborn, sometimes only in their mini-series, but I don't recall if Karla was like that.

>>91762252
>Kamala needs a bad mentor.
She's on a team with Karnak now.

>>91762064
Yup

File: Moonstone73.jpg (311KB, 952x1453px) Image search: [Google]

311KB, 952x1453px

>>91762432
He's crazy, but he won't teach fun lessons like Karla would.

>>91762285
You mean kamala? oh yes please... soon enough?

>>91762331
Bendis just completed what Ellis started with her.

>>91763045
No, he wrote a bad half-assed interpretation of it. Like anyone else he brought over from T-Bolts to his Dark Avengers.

>>91757153
Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. Like fast food.

File: Captain America (1968-1996) 192-000.jpg (2MB, 1988x3000px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3000px

Karla first appearance and moonstone first appearance

>>91765647
I didn't realise Captain America was Steve Roger's [Stand].

>>91765426
I agree. For instance I always hated Harry Potter and Spongebob despite their monstrous popularity and found them unbearably overrated.

But we're talking about someone who has spent over a decade bucking every single trend because they were popular, something which has gained him a level of notoriety few, if any, other published film critics can claim. He's like a wrestling heel shouting "nu-uh, that thing everybody likes is shit!" and "nu-uh, that thing everybody hates was great!", and it works. There's no genuine opinion or deep analysis I the reviews I've read from him, just juvenile elitism. He hates what's popular, and people know him as the guy who does that.

At some point, maybe basing your default opinions on the exact opposite of everyone else's is a bit stupid.

>>91765861
>>91765908
Man this is a weird issue. Mocking the shield being hidden under the clothes is low-hanging fruit, but Cap's capoeira shield shit here is getting me.

>>91765980
That 4th panel is meta.

File: Incredible Hulk 228-017.jpg (2MB, 988x1500px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 988x1500px

The end

>>91762115
Thanks anon.
Also thanks for the storytime too.

>>91767299
That Hulk appearance has a tonne of stuff that plays into her future character, huh.

File: Incredible Hulk 229 (1978) (Digital) (TheArchivist-Empire) 001.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

>>91767856
>That Hulk appearance has a tonne of stuff that plays into her future character, huh.
229

>>91767463
>Also thanks for the storytime too.
You Welcome anon.

File: Incredible Hulk 229 (1978) (Digital) (TheArchivist-Empire) 011.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

>>91769263

>>91751548

She murdered her own Mother in cold blood, just because she was embarrassed by her existence.

It's hard to come back from that.

>>91764460
You're not seriously defending Ellisbolts Karla, are you?

>>91754849
He got kicked out for being such a loser in that very same book.

>>91769854
You'd be surprised what people will defend. Specially Ellisbolts' complete mischaracterization of everyone

File: Incredible Hulk v1 449 (1997) (Digital-HD) (Monafekk-Empire).022.jpg (2MB, 1988x3056px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1988x3056px

The end

>>91766440
9-1-1

Clever.

>>91770185
Was it that bad?

>>91766503
Sad Cap

>>91771083
Everyone's character development got thrown out of the window. Although to be fair everything post-Fightbolts chose to pretend the Busiek/Nicieza shit barely happened

>>91770248
Thanks anon

>>91769406
Really?

>>91773262
You Welcome anon.

File: 1453261382135.jpg (459KB, 1024x1578px) Image search: [Google]

459KB, 1024x1578px

this was a good ship

>>91774905
Gotta order those. They are not on Kindle.