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Thread images: 17
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Why do Snyderfags hate him?
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>>91729233
"Not muh".
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So I watched the two episodes where he appeared
Has he appeared again?
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>>91729334
Not yet, but rumours are that he will be back to the season finale.
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>>91729359
Oh well I'll watch that
Thanks anon
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>>91729364
Its also part of the reasons that they act like you can just make super hero movies on just 2 ways:
>The MCU way
>Snyder way
Which just show how patethic and limited they are.
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>>91729364
Fox does what DCan't
This sounded better before I typed it out
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>>91729364
>>91729411
>>91729500
>Evanposter talks to himself again
Poor Evanposter.
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>>91729233
I liked Snyder's movies, and I have no problems with Supergirl's version of the character.
Oh wait, this is another of those threads where you guys make up a strawman group of fans who worship Zack Snyder and hate everything else, then talk about how terrible they are. Right I'll leave you to it.
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>>91729515
>you guys
It's just one guy, anon. Disney cannot afford more than one intern.
>Right I'll leave you to it.
Me too. I have some red Sonja to read, and many threads about how Marvel is fucking up again.
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>>91729233
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>>91729515
It's not a strawman if they really do show up regularly to post autistic macros and call everyone a Disney shill.
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>>91729233
jealousy/sour grapes of dat ass
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No idea why they couldn't just do regular superman in the DCEU. I'd be a whole lot more receptive if this was just it's own thing. But this DCEU will probably at least get around 7-10 movies, which means I have to put up with Snyders shitty interpretation of what he thinks makes superman cool.
Snyder had 1 job, which was to set up the DCEU and he fucking took it and bungled it. It's not that hard to get Superman and Batman right. But now, the next wave of DCEU directors/writers have to fix Snyders mistake of an emo superman and a DKR batman.
Snyder fucking killed Superman in the DCEU IN HIS SECOND FUCKING MOVIE. What the fuck kind of garbage is that. He's just an uncreative hack that doesn't know how to write good stories/direct good original stories. That's why his best work is basically just copying a more creative persons work.
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>>91729505
The hell are you talking about?
My posts were >>91729364 and >>91729411
You just wish that everyone of your problems could be solved by blaming one person.
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>>91730182
Oh man, it is that shitposter who is always posting this gif! Wasnt confirmed that you were making daily bait threads?
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>>91729334
Why does the Flash know about him? I'm pretty sure they've never met, and Supergirl only offhandedly mentions him
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>>91730286
>something cannot be posted if it has been posted before by the same person and also stops being valid after X amount of uses
Tell me more.
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>>91729233
But I don't.
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>>91729411
>MCU
>Patrician
>Ever
Pleb.
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>>91729233
They do? I thought no one cared about this Superman because he's from Supergirl and no one watch that show except for a bunch of horny nerds that later complain about the feminist agenda on internet
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>>91730523
I actually have seem plenty of snyderfags complain about him when he showed up.
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>>91729364
>"nobody can adapt Superman to the modern audiences and be liked, he NEED to be like the one of snyderverse"
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>>91730335
What in God's name is that supposed to mean? Have you ever heard of reading comprehension?
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>>91730468
Spoken like a true contrarian
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>>91730622
My post was very simple and straightforward.
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>>91730575
I've seen more /pol/tards complaining about the actor being "Mexican" despite he's full European
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>>91730681
There is a huge overlap between snyderfags and /pol/acks.
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>>91730681
Keep in mind, /pol/ thinks people from Spanish descent aren't white.
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>>91730889
It's hard to tell who's memeing and who's being serious on /pol/ though.
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>>91729233
I like both though. I just think CW Superman was kind of bland and has a weird face. Also I wasnt a fan of how much of a dick he was to Metallo.
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>>91729982
but it was regular Superman, to the point where people got triggered over recreating a scene from Action Comics #1
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>>91731009
It would be "regular superman" if in a regular superman story, metropolis blows up and in the issue 9 of the 2nd arc Superman dies.
When writing a superman story, you can't just go out and make in apocalyptic right off the bat. I mean you can, but I'm going to critique it because the story sucks. The destruction porn took away from superman being superman.
If Squirl girl ever gets a movie, do you think the tone should be dark gritty and a horror movie? Or a lighthearted adventure comedy? It's all about tone, and coming out of a Superman movie I shouldn't feel depressed, that's the exact opposite of how I should exit the movie. The tone of the movie did not fit the general theme of the character.
When screen writers/directors sit down, the first question is what story do we want to tell. What do we want to convey, and they completely missed the ball on it with Man of Steel. It's so obvious that they clearly do not understand the character and why people love him. It's not about Superman fighting the toughest villain, it's not about Superman punching his enemies through clouds and throwing them through buildings. It's about inspiring and having emotional conflicts. Just watch Grant Morrison's interview on Superman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzHgvqh8to
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>>91729545
>It's just one guy, anon. Disney cannot afford more than one intern
It's impossible to tell anymore if people who post stuff like this aren't trolling. I really hope they are, though. Someone who really believed this would be so sad.
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>>91730264
Your post got deleted? What happened in it?
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>>91731009
Nah, that image and your response is Snyder in a nutshell: he can recreate scenes but he doesn't get the character. There are things done in the movie that heroes do but there aren't any heroes. It's why so many people so strongly rejected Snyder's interpretation of the characters.
The very fact that you have to try and convince people otherwise proves the point.
If you aren't trolling and genuinely don't under what Bernardin was getting at, it's kind of a lost cause. You're not going to be able to understand why there were no heroes in this movie and why everyone finds this interpretation of the characters so hollow and wrong.
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>>91729233
Never mind the DCEU. It's bullshit that the CW only got Superman for 2 episodes.
I sometimes think it was just to replace the faceless guy in the opening credits.
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>>91731485
>The very fact that you have to try and convince people otherwise proves the point.
lol wut?
Are you really saying suggesting that knee jerk reaction is more important than thought and debate?
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>>91731485
>Nah, that image and your response is Snyder in a nutshell: he can recreate scenes but he doesn't get the character. There are things done in the movie that heroes do but there aren't any heroes. It's why so many people so strongly rejected Snyder's interpretation of the characters.
In other words "He didn't smile enough"?
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>>91729233
I haven't seen any hate myself
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>>91729411
I'll never understand people who put Spider-Man 2 over Spider-Man
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>>91731677
Because people have differing opinions from you and think it's better?
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>>91731577
No, read more carefully.
You're trying to dispel the notion that Bats and Supes in BvS weren't heroic. But why would you have to work to dispel this notion at all? You seem to be aware that this is a fairly widely-held opinion. Why is that? If the movie and characters were obviously heroic there wouldn't be any need to strain to convince everyone. There's no controversy over the heroic nature of characters in other cape movies.
The answer, of course, is that the depiction of the characters in the DCEU didn't connect with most people. It didn't convey heroism to people. You can argue till your face turns blue that they're wrong, but your'e missing the point: you shouldn't have to work so hard. Something went wrong. The audience didn't get whatever the movie was trying to convey. This means the movie didn't do a good job communicating to the audience, or else this impression wouldn't be so widely held.
It's like when people have to write walls of text to explain MARTHA or other plot points that are widely despised. When you find yourself doing that, you should stop and think that whatever was trying to be communicated did not get across. Whatever the intent may have been, the execution clearly didn't connect with the mass majority of people.
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>>91731577
He really is.
That's insane.
>>91731485
pic related
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>>91731602
Yes, that's part of it. Most people reject a grim, joyless Christ figure who reluctantly deigns to help people. That's not how most people know or want Superman, and so it doesn't connect.
You don't have to take my word for it, you seem well aware that this is a common criticism. You might ask yourself why that is.
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>>91731866
I know you're trolling, but I enjoyed the Zizek + image.
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>>91731838
The majority of people are not very smart.
And it doesn't even take a genius to figure out BvS. You just have to actually pay attention.
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>>91731909
>I know you're trolling
Not at all.
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>>91729233
MANLET
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>>91731940
At least you tried. I believe it's time to call me a Disney intern, though.
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>>91731931
Yet the most vocal people don't seem smart enough to understand that understanding is not the same as liking.
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>>91731973
????
You're not being paid, you're just an idiot with his mind made up.
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>>91731931
Well okay, you can tell yourself you're part of the tiny, select genius elite who sees the true cape kino. But you might consider wondering why everyone else is having such a hard time seeing the heroism if it's so obvious.
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>>91731838
I, I don't even know where to fucking begin.
Just because something is the popular opinion doesn't make it true. Just because you have an emotional teether to that opinion doesn't either. You're appealing to the majority and emotion to support your opinion. Neither of these things make an argument. Just because someone is argueing from outside of the popular thought doesn't mean they are wrong.
What matters is the argument itself. What that image showed above is that within the movie there are several examples of Superman being Superman. Examples that never seem to come up within the circle jerk of why people didn't like the films.
That's fine if you don't, you don't even have to explain yourself. But to make blanket statements about characterization that simply don't match what is in the film, and then to say "well most people just don't see it that way" is fucking retarded.
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>>91731995
You just uprooted those goalposts buddy.
You original talking point was
>The audience didn't get whatever the movie was trying to convey.
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>>91732025
>What matters is the argument itself. What that image showed above is that within the movie there are several examples of Superman being Superman.
bingo
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>>91731999
Please stop baiting.
If you do actually want to engage in discussion, though, try addressing my points instead of doing exactly what you accuse me of.
Either contribute or leave the adults to their discussion.
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>>91732065
this guy
>>91732025
said it better than I could.
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>>91732004
>you're part of the tiny, select genius elite
Why can't you be bothered to actually engage with WHAT I SAY.
see
>>91731931
>And it doesn't even take a genius to figure out BvS.
God damn you are delusional.
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>>91732028
I didn't move the goalposts because I'm not the same anon you were talking to before. Contrary to popular believe there's not just one person that Disney hired to say they find Snyder's rendition to be off putting.
Nor do I necessarily think that the goalpost is even moved. The point that other guy was saying is true; if you have to spend 3+ years telling people a guy is likable he probably isn't. People didn't "not understand". We're talking about an emotional response; they didn't find the guy likable, they thought the victories were too pyhrric, that the ends didn't justify the means, that they couldnt' form an emotional attachment to the character or the story etc. Your trying to argue otherwise. You can't. Your feelings aren't theirs, and going "You're dumb for having those feelings" isn't winning you any arguments or hearts or minds.
It's ironic, because a huge facet, if not the entire point of Snyder's Superman in story is that he can't force people to like him no matter how "good" he is, yet here you guys are posting memes and infographs and trying to force (read: berate) people into liking the story for months and months and months.
Maybe you need to do what he did and kill yourselves so we'll see the light. But that seems like it'd be extreme, right?
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Snyder bots spend so much time arguing their movie makes sense, that they completely disregard if the movie is any good.
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>>91732182
can you refute this
>>91732025
(wasn't my post, but it's an extremely airtight post IMO)
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>>91732025
>I, I don't even know where to fucking begin.
That's clear, though I appreciate the effort.
>What matters is the argument itself.
Right, and the argument is whether Superman is heroic in the DCEU movies. Most people don't think so.
> What that image showed above is that within the movie there are several examples of Superman being Superman.
The problem is you're presenting these images without the context of the whole DCEU in which they appear, which is what people are reacting to. Within this context these images do not at all show Superman being Superman, they show a character who is very un-Superman-like occasionally doing things Superman would do.
>But to make blanket statements about characterization that simply don't match what is in the film, and then to say "well most people just don't see it that way" is fucking retarded.
No, it's just the simple truth. You're trying to explain why Superman was heroic in the movie, yet most people disagree. What's "heroic" is a matter of perception, and clearly, even with these examples, people don't perceive him that way. That means the heroism is not being conveyed, other elements beyond these examples are interfering.
It's because you're picking isolated examples rather than looking at the film as whole: its tone, its overall depiction of the characters, etc. THAT'S why people don't find Snyder's Superman heroic, despite having him doing things heroes do.
Whether these characters are heroic or not is entirely a matter of emotion and popular sentiment because what constitutes "heroism" is in the eye of the beholder. These movies clearly do not meet most people's definitions.
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>>91732085
>said it better than I could.
Yes, because they're trying and you're just baiting.
>>91732264
>can you refute this
If you could understand the comment, you'd see that they did. The other comment was saying you can't argue feelings and opinion, this comment demonstrates that it is entirely a matter of feeling and opinion.
>(wasn't my post, but it's an extremely airtight post IMO)
That's because you're an idiot.
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>>91732289
>That's clear, though I appreciate the effort.
rude desu
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>>91732236
No no, there are plenty of walls of text trying to explain how it's actually Kubrick-level true cinema and if you don't get it it's because you can't understand the genius.
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>>91732337
>That's because you're an idiot.
rude desu
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>>91732360
>>91732373
Trying the old Buzzfeed tactic of spreading content over multiple posts, huh? Here, you get one (You), but just one. Don't get greedy!
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>>91732264
Not sure why I have to given that you're addressing the argument at hand to begin with. You guys are trying to use logic and intellect to tackle a problem that was never about logic and intellect. You're arguing the letter of the law when everyone else is arguing the spirit of it.
Not to mention that if we look at it, on paper, on the letter of it, the out of context cherry picking you do ignores the fact that it's all fruit of a poisonous tree, namely that the Earth Snyder presents would actually be better off had Kal El died as an infant and never made it there. I can easily argue that he's not acting heroically so much as he's just cleaning up the mess of his existence.
Yes he stopped Zod, but Zod wouldn't even BE there if not for him sending out a signal.
Yes he stopped the World Engine, but it wouldn't have been turned on if not for the Codex in his blood.
Yes he beat Doomsday, but Doomsday only existed because he littered alien tech and corpses over a civilization that even he knew wasn't' ready for that stuff.
Yes he "redeemed" Batman, but Batman was fucking retired and wasn't doing anything to need to be redeemed from before he showed up.
Yes he'll probably be instrumental in beating Darkseid (even though it already makes no sense) but again, Darkseid was summoned via alien tech that is only there and able to be used because of him.
And most importantly, (and because I know this is going to get brought up eventually and in fact doubt the people that will respond to this will even read this far) yes, while comic book Superman and many other superhero franchises present the paradox of the hero creating his villain, Snyder's version lacks the dual buffers of genre convention and charisma to mitigate those facts. THAT is where the misunderstanding is.
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My question is more why is /co/ so hostile?
I read comics and like the DCEU.
Shouldn't be a big deal.
I should be able to talk about it without getting lumped in a s a kino poster.
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>>91730638
contrarian to a pleb is patrician
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>>91732505
If you want to discuss the films with other fans may I suggest /r/dc_cinematic? If that's all you want, to have a discussion with other DCEU fans then coming to /co/ isn't the best place to discuss it, because /co/'s taste in movies doesn't line up with yours.
Personally I hate the DCEU because they took Superman and turned him into a version I despise, and they made Batman old (even though afleck is still a good batman).
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>>91732489
>Not sure why I have to given that you're addressing the argument at hand to begin with. You guys are trying to use logic and intellect to tackle a problem that was never about logic and intellect.
Exactly. I know "autist" gets thrown around a lot but I seriously think these guys are autistic:
"DCEU SUPERMAN IS LIKABLE AND HEROIC!"
"But most people don't find him likable or heroic."
"YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH EMOTION OR POPULAR APPEAL! LET ME TELL YOU HOW PEOPLE SHOULD FEEL ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS!"
I don't think these people can even understand what's going on. Do they really think they're going to use the power of LOGIC to convince people about their feelings?
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>>91732505
>Shouldn't be a big deal.
But it should. MoS, and especially BvS, are such valueless garbage that so badly butchered their characters that if you don't immediately recognize that you're just human garbage.
Sorry, if you're a fan of the DCEU you're simply a bad person. You need to kill yourself.
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>>91732621
>and they made Batman old (even though afleck is still a good batman).
The age isn't really a problem, it's making him Bat-Punisher who brands those he doesn't kill. As you say, it turned him into an unrecognizable version we despise.
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>>91732717
I don't argue that Batman killing people isn't a major problem. But as shitty it is, and as annoying as it will be, it'll get retconned.
You can't retcon Batman's age. You can have flash back movies but are people really going to want that? Does Afleck have what it takes to stick around 10 years the DCEU planned out ahead of it. Having a younger batman this wouldn't be a problem, but with an older one. You're going to run into that problem.
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>>91732289
> Right, and the argument is whether Superman is heroic in the DCEU movies.
Ok we have a starting point...
> Most people don't think so.
And you're already fucking it up. APPEALING TO THE MAJORITY IS NOT A FUCKING ARGUMENT!
> Within this context these images do not at all show Superman being Superman, they show a character who is very un-Superman-like occasionally doing things Superman would do.
Ok now we're getting somewhere. Now without fucking appealing to emotion please explain this thought out further. You've laid out a premise. Great! But that's all. There's no argument here just a statement.
You don't believe Snyder's Superman is Superman. Why?
> You're trying to explain why Superman was heroic in the movie, yet most people disagree.
God damn it I thought we went over this. Ok look see this is the problem. You say people just don't get it or like it. But people in this thread claim they do get it and do like it. You point out that having to write essays to explain it some how negates their point, but those essays are being written to explain the fucking point. See the problem with just appealing to popularity? It doesn't tackle the actual argument here.
> Whether these characters are heroic or not is entirely a matter of emotion and popular sentiment because what constitutes "heroism" is in the eye of the beholder. These movies clearly do not meet most people's definitions.
That's great that you want to keep on chiming up the subjectivity of cinema. But it is entirely irrelevant wether or not a movie meets the majority of peoples definitions, interpretations, or appeal. What matters is what is presented.
See here's the thing with subjectivity that gets lost on most people. Just because opinions can vary and the conclusions of arguments each have equal merit doesn't mean they are all grounded in a logical or well thought out form. If you can't explain yourself and have to appeal to emotion and popularity, you might want to rethink shit
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>There are people on this board who don't like the capekino that is B v S
C'mon, it's the smartest, deepest superhero movie out there
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>>91732636
Or maybe they're asking people to explain their feelings out a bit more than
"I didn't like it"
"Not my Superman"
"Not heroic enough"
"He should smile more".
etc
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>>91732838
>And you're already fucking it up. APPEALING TO THE MAJORITY IS NOT A FUCKING ARGUMENT!
Jury nullifcation is a valid defense tactic.
Hell, go to /tg/ and ask them if a DM should let you argue your way out of a charisma stat check. I'd be interested to see how they respond.
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Everyone in this thread should be permabanned.
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>>91732838
>That's great that you want to keep on chiming up the subjectivity of cinema. But it is entirely irrelevant wether or not a movie meets the majority of peoples definitions, interpretations, or appeal.
It kind of is when you are doing an adaptation, and even if you aren't...the fact that you can't generate the feeling that you intend on the audience shows that you are a bad storyteller.
A good storyteller knows how to make a character sympathetic when he wishes so, or make him tragic when he wishes so. If a person tries to make someone feel "x" for a character, but fails, you failed as a storyteller.
Not the person you are arguing to, by the way.
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>all this autism over one movie
You make laugh sometimes, /co/.
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>>91732838
>You point out that having to write essays to explain it some how negates their point, but those essays are being written to explain the fucking point
The fundamental problem you have is that you think this is something you can explain. You can't explain charisma into a character.
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>>91733059
>>91732983
You keep trying to deceive me, but I'm loyal to Snyder and I will defend what he has to say as well as DC, I admitted long ago that I'm a soldier on this war.
You are probably just a paid Disney intern, or worse, someone that doesn't take sides on the company war, you enable the MCU.
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>>91733003
>the fact that you can't generate the feeling that you intend on the audience shows that you are a bad storyteller.
The trouble is that audiences are not one single creature or hive mind that all thinks the same way. Never mind that personal experience ranging from birth to five minutes before viewing can dramatically alter how a person views or experiences a movie.
There are people who had the intended feeling for what was put in front of them. These people exist. It might not have been as wide spread as Snyder or WB might have liked but to invalidate their experiences because the majority felt a different way is just bizarre.
That's the point I'm making here. You can go blue in the face telling me the majority of people didn't like it. That's fine. But it doesn't mean they are right. Doesn't mean Snyder failed to convey what he wanted. Doesn't mean the movie is bad.
Those aspects of a film need further discussion beyond just broad emotional response.
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>>91733115
Fucking kek, I can't breathe. To think there are people on this board that take that shit seriously.
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>>91732838
But you're still not understanding what the argument even is. Emotion and popularity are what the argument is about.
You're trying to demand people feel differently about these characters. They feel this way because the movie doesn't resonate with them. It doesn't conform with the popular notions of what heroes are.
Most people say they don't see these characters as heroes. This isn't an issue of "logic". It's ridiculous to keep insisting that only logic should be used for a matter of emotional appeal and popular conception. "Heroism" is a matter of emotion and popular conception, there's no rational argument to it, and you won't and can't convince people their identification of characters as heroic is wrong using purely logos.
Sorry, you just have a very childish conception of the world. You'll find things don't break down into neat logical metrics, and you'll be frustrated by it as you are now.
Instead of screaming at people about how they should logically feel, it would be more fruitful to figure out what most people's ideas of heroism are, and why these movies seem to have failed to connect with those.
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>>91733115
>I'm a soldier on this war.
Weaponized autism
You are just a shill at this point, why would your opinion be worth anything?
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>>91733089
> You can't explain charisma into a character.
But you can explain why you do or don't see it within a character. You can cite examples that demonstrate the areas in which you expected a character to act one way when instead they acted another. You can explain your expectations going in and where something failed or succeeded in meeting those.
You might not be able to make a character likable but if you want your opinion to be worth anything you are expected to explain why you did or didn't like them.
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>>91733206
>being that stupid as to fall for bait
wow
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>>91733200
>but to invalidate their experiences because the majority felt a different way is just bizarre.
The thing is, this is meanless.
This is a dumb blockbuster made to appeal to people and fans of the character or potential fans. If just a select feel like,you failed.
And if you want to go this subjective, anybody can argue that The Room is in ironically the best movie ever because Tommy Wiseaul think that it is, or that Sonicho is a great comic, because Chris Chan thinks so.
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>>91733267
No, I said "to think there are people".
I wasn't talking about him.
I was talking about how there is people like that post.
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>>91733200
>That's the point I'm making here. You can go blue in the face telling me the majority of people didn't like it. That's fine. But it doesn't mean they are right.
But you're getting this backwards: you're the one trying to convince everyone else that they're wrong about how they feel. That was the entire start of this "argument", trying to prove "logically" that people are wrong when they say DCEU Superman isn't heroic.
>Doesn't mean Snyder failed to convey what he wanted.
It most certainly does, for the majority of people. You're setting up a strawman: no one is arguing that 100% of the audience will agree on anything. What is being said is the simple fact that clearly most of the audience doesn't find these characters to be heroic, since it's such a common complaint. Snyder therefore failed to convey heroism to most people.
No one is talking about some Platonic Form of Heroism, just that this movie did not effectively convey heroism since most people didn't see it that way. I doubt it was Snyder or WB's intent for most people to have this reaction. Thus they've failed in their communication of their intent.
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>>91733226
I have made no fucking claim in this thread about if Superman is likable or heroic.
My entire point has been that I don't give a fuck what the majority thinks and have been trying to get across to you here that if someone can't explain what they found wrong or right about something they saw then they aren't worth talking to about it.
You don't like it! Great! Now why the fuck does that matter when you're not going to explain why?
> Instead of screaming at people about how they should logically feel, it would be more fruitful to figure out what most people's ideas of heroism are
Dude, I fucking said that.
> You don't believe Snyder's Superman is Superman. Why?
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>>91733397
>I have made no fucking claim in this thread about if Superman is likable or heroic.
Yes, you did. This all started when someone, maybe you, posted that image as "proof" that people are wrong when they say Snyderman isn't heroic. When it was pointed out that this image can't "prove" anything of the sort, you launched into an autistic crusade wherein you repeatedly demonstrated that you don't understand emotional or popular appeal and think you can logically argue about how people should feel.
The whole point is that most people don't find Snyderman likable or heroic, and you can't "logically" argue about this.
And here you are, and here you will be forever, raging and fuming that people feel the way they do and won't use LOGIC to feel the way you think they should.
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>>91733366
> you're the one trying to convince everyone else that they're wrong about how they feel.
Can you quote me to this please? Been very clear here that all I'm asking for is an explanation for their feeling and been very consistent at stating not liking the films is just fine.
> Thus they've failed in their communication of their intent.
So what it is here? Subjective interpretation or objective generalization? I'm confused since you're argueing both of these depending on what tune you need to hit.
Let me just repeat myself. I get that a majority of people have their problems with a wide variety of these films. That's fine. But I'd like to hear why. I have no doubt in my mind that there are some very reasonable, very persuasive, and logically thought out explanations for people's problems.
I am in no way argueing that the divine light of Richard Dawkins Science driven Logic will make someone who didn't like something suddenly like it.
But I want to fucking hear the argument. I don't give a shit what the majority thinks. Majority of people are a brain dead mindless cell of wandering sheep who will say anything to fit in and take comfort in believing they are part of a group. That's not a condemnation or some grandstanding "I'm better than everyone else" because I'll freely say I'm a part of the mindless zombies in this society who'd rather not put effort into thinking about a popcorn flick. But when you walk into a room, and want to share your opinion, do the fucking world a favor and at least have it more thought out then "Well everyone else didn't like it".
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>>91733597
These are my post. Now please point out to me where I've said people are wrong for feeling a certain way.
>>91731577
>>91732025
>>91732838
>>91733200
>>91733397
>>91733627
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>>91733627
>Been very clear here that all I'm asking for is an explanation for their feeling a
And therein lies your problem, as well as a classic demonstration of autism.
>But when you walk into a room, and want to share your opinion, do the fucking world a favor and at least have it more thought out then "Well everyone else didn't like it".
If you walk into a room where people are looking at a painting, and most people tell you they don't like it, please don't be the autist you are being here demanding they justify their feelings and telling them they're wrong.
The thing you don't (or maybe can't if you really are on the spectrum) understand is that there are no explanations for how people feel, and no arguments to be had about them. If someone sees BvS and says Superman doesn't feel heroic, that's an explanation in itself because it's an emotional reaction to the film.
>>
Dont care but wondering why his costume looks plastic compared to Supergirl's
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>>91733704
Will you stop playing dumb? If you really want to know why most people don't find Snyderman heroic there are a million essays and critical reactions on the topic. Pretending this is a conversation starting from scratch is trolling. It's like a child asking "But why" to piss off the adults.
Since you're clearly well aware that this a well-tread topic, and if you honestly wanted to know the criticisms of these movies you could easily do so, your true intention is pretty clear.
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>>91733770
You realize that Autism is most commonly identified by a lack of empathy or care into the thoughts or feelings of others right?
If people don't want to share why they don't like something that's fine but they also shouldn't expect anyone to then give a damn about their opinion. You don't like it, great, move on to another conversation.
I'm only asking for justification by those who want to consistently be involved within this discussion. This isn't just a painting in a room, these are people who stake out this painting to tell everyone what they think.
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>>91733891
But I don't care about blogger X or youtuber Y. You're the one in the thread. You're the one I'm asking.
If you think there's something out there that explains your thoughts perfectly link me to that if it will spare you the time and effort.
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>>91733896
>You realize that Autism is most commonly identified by a lack of empathy or care into the thoughts or feelings of others right?
No, that's a sociopath. Autism is the inability to understand the emotions and feelings of others. They find people and society hard to understand because they don't fit into neat, rational patterns resulting in poor social skills and difficulty in forming relationships.
Case in point.
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>>91729233
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>>91733958
>But I don't care about blogger X or youtuber Y.
That's good, because with a little effort you'll find there is an entire world of criticism outside of YouTube and personal blogs.
>>
>>91733964
Hard to understand peoples thoughts and feelings when they don't want to share them anon. Can't figure out why you think Superman isn't heroic if you don't explain yourself to the class.
Issue here isn't an inability to figure out that people don't like something. Issue here is you refuse to explain your own reasoning.
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>>91733994
Hey that's cute. Dodge the point by expanding the availability of criticism.
But Anon I asked for your opinion. I can only get that from you.
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>>91729233
He's everything they don't understand and hate about Superman aka a REAL Superman.
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>>91733262
Yeah you can probably cite examples of why you, personally, find the character to be likable or charismatic.
But it'd be dumb to do so here because Clark's lack of charisma and people skills is an honest to god plot point. You keep skipping over that and going "you didn't argue!" when that IS the argument. Because the strawman of "Not Muh" is easier to tear down.
People *in the story* are of mixed opinion as to whether or not Clark is a hero. Yet when that's reflected in reality you guys chimp out and go on and on about the logic of it.
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>>91734045
Not that anon but to me Snyderman isn't a hero because all the problems in these stories are of his creation, all his personal struggles are due to his own lack of agency (and a healthy dose of plot contrivance) and more than that, he's just whiny.
He pisses and moans about people viewing him as a detached god but then doubles down on acting austere. Maybe if he had a beer or visited some sick kids in the hospital he'd have better PR but said PR only mattes to him when he wants to feel sad about it.
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>>91734263
He's kinda mentally ill too.
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>>91732688
I've said it before and i'll surely say it again. You're boring in your mistaken certainty.
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>>91734263
Pretty much nailed it, the writing in MoS and story is just bad. But that's pretty much a given when Goyer is writing a story.
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>>91734577
But Goyer wrote Batman Begins.
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>>91734263
>because all the problems in these stories are of his creation
Wat.
That's tantamount to excusing Zod and Luther of their crimes.
Supes didn't make either one of them be evil.
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>>91734601
Also Blade Trinity, he directed and wrote that piece of garbage.
Goyer had 1 hit, which was a batman origin story, how fucking hard is it to write a batman origin story for a movie. Just sit down with Batman Year One and just write it into a movie. It's not hard.
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>>91734640
Zod is only on earth due to Clark's actions and existence.
Lex's omtivations are tied to Clark's existence.
Doomsday is the fruit of Clark's actions in the previous movie.
Darkseid is brought to earth because of tech that Clark left on and irresponsibly left lying around despite the fact that for the first 30 years of his life he was told "don't do that it'll be bad"
And I think there's a fairly good chance that the reason he's been removed from the marketing for Justice League is because he'll end up as a brainwashed tool of the bad guys for at least part of Justice League.
Either way, If you remove Clark, you remove the impact the villains had on earth. An in the case of Zod/Doomsday, their very presence. Snyderman didn't make them be evil, but he poured gasoline on that fire every step of the way and you're sitting here posting dank based snyder memes asking us to throw him a parade for it.
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>>91730468
TWS is easily one of the best comic book movies to date.
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>>91734601
He also wrote the original Blade.
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>>91734758
>Snyderman didn't make them be evil
That's all you had to admit.
And it's just like the comics.
Zod comes to Earth because of Supes. Lex is a faggot because of Supes.
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>>91734837
>And it's just like the comics.
Comics Superman has mitigating factors to make him work in spite of that. Factors that you keep ignoring and filing under "Not Muh"
And in terms of cold hard logic which is the only thing that seems to matter to you guys, the net gain for Comics Earth is still higher with him than without it, which is not the case under Snyder.
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>>91734837
>Lex is a faggot because of Supes.
Confirmed for not reading ANY of Supes 5 billion origin retellings since the Crisis.
>>
Snyder movies aren't fun enough to be popcorn movies and they're too dumb to be character pieces. They fail at everything they attempt, which is why they're hated by everyone.
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>>91734931
I'm not talking about origins though?
Lex wasn't in MoS.
Get your shitposts straight.
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>>91734945
But I don't hate them I they succeed at engaging me as they intended.
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>>91734904
>which is not the case under Snyder.
That's about to change, seeing as the 3 mother boxes were on Earth long before Supes ever was.
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>>91734957
And I'm not talking about MoS, I'm talking about the fucking source material you mong.
Supes is NEVER the reason Lex is a faggot. Lex is always a corrupt douchenozzle trying to own all of Metropolis before Clark moves to town who only PRETENDS to have "humanity's best interest" reasons to hate him when really he's just mad that someone more powerful exists to interfere in his crimes and steal the attention of the gen pop.
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>>91735011
>Supes is NEVER the reason Lex is a faggot.
oh boy
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>>91735041
Yeah yeah, I know, here comes the "Lex is right" memes from the casuals who actually buy his "filthy xenos stifling our potential" line.
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>>91734996
Actually those mitigating factors still seem to not be implemented but you're right. Which is even worse because it means not only does Clark cause more trouble for earth than he solves, but he's not ACTUALLY necessary to defeat Darkseid given that primitive humans and factions that *already existed* before him can do the job just fine.
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>>91735011
>And I'm not talking about MoS, I'm talking about the fucking source material you mong.
I know you were, and you talked about comic origins involving Lex, which is a false equivalence since Lex is not featured in DCEU Supes' origin.
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>>91735099
>Which is even worse
everytime
I just don't get it. You're making a concuios effort to twist the stories into knots to make it look as bad as it can for Supes.
They baffling part is the origin of your desire to do this.
You misrepresent events on purpose, but what caused you to start doing that, as the REAL events of the films aren't as awful in every conceivable way like you are currently trying to claim.
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>>91735099
>>91735216
conscious
whoops
>>
now its time for MY blog.
thetruetrickster.tumblr.com
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>>91730599
This page is my exact feelings on most comics. Ironically Superman and Action right now are fairly good at being this because of Johnathan.
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>>91735139
My exact words were "READING all of Supes origin retellings",
Which I said because every single origin BOOK that's been written Post-CoIE features the tale of how Lex met Superman and why he hates him.
And it's always because Supes steals his spotlight and foils his corrupt business plans.
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>>91735216
Fact 1: Darkseid has a renewed interest in earth after millenia because he was effectively summoned by Lex Luthor.
Fact 2: Luthor "rings the bell" that brings Darkseid back to earth by talking to Steppenwolf in BvS using Kryptonian technology.
Fact 3: Kryptonian technology only exists in a usable form on earth because of Clark.
Which of those is wrong? Point out which one.
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>>91729233
I liked MoS and BvS, I'm hyped for JL and i love the shit out of this Superman
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>>91734758
>Zod is only on earth due to Clark's actions and existence.
He was going planet to planet for the old colonies, so he would have made it to earth eventually.
>Lex's omtivations are tied to Clark's existence.
Just like in most versions of Lex.
>Doomsday is the fruit of Clark's actions in the previous movie.
Ok, so in Superman Tas, is everything Metallo does Clark's fault because he put him in Jail allowing for Lex to turn him into Metallo?
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>>91735374
None of them are wrong, that's not what i'm talking about.
I'm talking about how I say
>something wasn't Clark's fault (motherboxes)
And instead of going
>oh yeah that's true
you say
>something something that's even WORSE
Like, you just hate these movies.
We don't even know if what Lex saw was a communication or a recording (like Zod's history story thing).
And if it WAS a communication, we don't know that Lex didn't just find out that they were already on their way, seeing as Steppenwolf had the 3 mother boxes in his hand, and Lex couldn't have told him about those because he didn't know about them. Ergo, it's possible that they already knew the boxes were on earth. Why would they come to Earth after talking with Lex if he couldn't have told them about the mother boxes?
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>>91735470
Me too.
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>>91734263
>but to me Snyderman isn't a hero because all the problems in these stories are of his creation
Even if that was true, he still tries to stop the problems and is willing to die to do so, that is FACTUALLY mother fucking Heroic.
>He pisses and moans about people viewing him as a detached god
No he is concerned about it but he never really fucking moaned about it at all.
>but then doubles down on acting austere
Because he thinks getting involved in politics and the details of stuff will make things worse.
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>>91735585
>he still tries to stop the problems and is willing to die to do so
this
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>>91735520
>He was going planet to planet for the old colonies, so he would have made it to earth eventually.
That's only theory on your part. And what's more, were that the case they could've had that happen. Instead they chose to have Zo'd scientist guy say "we received a beacon from this planet".
And again, you keep bringing up other versions of Clark. I'm going spoonfeed this to you since apparently I have to. Those Clarks get a pass because they have the whole "Big Blue Boy Scout" thing going for them. Without that, he's just a big trouble magnet.
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>>91735608
>Those Clarks get a pass because they have the whole "Big Blue Boy Scout" thing going for them.
This makes no sense.
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>>91735585
>Even if that was true, he still tries to stop the problems and is willing to die to do so, that is FACTUALLY mother fucking Heroic.
Cleaning up your mess isn't heroism.
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>>91732289
>Most people don't think so.
False, most aren't deliberate fucking retards denying reality like you, most do want him to be more bright and cheery but they don't deny that he is heroic.
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>>91735632
This is what i'm talking about.
This is not a comment on the films, this is a comment on your mindset.
Clark didn't make Zod attack Earth. Clark CHOSE to save Earth.
ZOD WAS NOT HIS MESS
IF ANYTHING IT WAS JOR-EL'S
BUT EVEN SO, SO ZOD CHOSE TO BE EVIL
fuck you
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>>91731337
So which one has more merit, screenshots from the actual movie or some autist's fanfiction based on something that never happened? Get a life. Snyder's Superman is great.
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>>91735663
I agree with what you're saying, but Zod didn't get to choose, he was born for the sole purpose of ensuring Krypton's survival by any means, he didn't get to choose that
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>>91735533
Yeah that doesn't follow.
Because as you've now admitted is true:
Fact 4: Darkseid is only back on earth because of Clark (via two degrees of separation at most). It's a bit of a stretch to theorize or assume that they were headed there anyway when Luthor specifically says he's sent for them.
Fact 5: Darkseid can be repelled by factors that are not related to Clark.
Ergo, Clark not only creates problems (Zod, Lex, Doomsday, Darkseid) but is not particularly relevant or instrumental or even necessary in fixing the only one that could conceivably have existed independent of him.
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>>91731337
>tfw love ASS and love Secret Identity and love Morrison's Action and love Hitman 34 AND love MoS
Not being autistic is so liberating, you really should try it.
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>>91735608
>And again, you keep bringing up other versions of Clark
Different anon.
Let me spell THIS out for you fucker.
There is NOTHING fucking wrong with a hero accidentally causing his villains.
Is Spider-Man at fault for all the deaths Spider Slayers have caused over the years? If he wasn't around it would never happened? Why does he get a pass faggot.
FACT - If a serial killer sees me buy a new car and follows me home & murderers my neighbors, IT IS NOT MY FUCKING FAULT!
>>91735632
Yes it fucking is when you had no conscious/intentional part in the mess happening.
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>>91735720
>Luthor specifically says he's sent for them.
nope
>>91735707
He could have terraformed anywhere. He chose to get revenge on Jor El through his son.
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>>91735707
He did choose to use the world engine on Earth, he could have asked or made Clark come with them and use the world engine on another planet. And worst case scenario they could have come back and done it to earth if they couldn't find another viable planet, he didn't have to do it to Earth NOW.
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>>91735625
It does, just not to you.
Charisma helps in interaction.
>>91735663
>This is not a comment on the films, this is a comment on your mindset.
As has already been established, mindset doens't matter, only cold hard facts matter. And the cold hard facts can refute the argument that
>ZOD WAS NOT HIS MESS
As, after thirty years of being told that revealing himself would have disastrous consequences on humanity, Clark turns on an ancient alien ship without thinking about the consequences for even a second, using a key ONLY he has access to. Zod's motivations are to resurrect Krypton, which he can ONLY do with Clark's DNA.
No Clark = No Key, No Zod on Earth, no ability to resurrect Krypton (and thus no real reason to activate the world engine, No Lex sperging out (and even if he does, No Zod Corpse means no Doomsday), and maybe even no Darkseid.
Getting mad doesn't change the facts. Two can play this "look at the actions alone" game.
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>>91735747
>There is NOTHING fucking wrong with a hero accidentally causing his villains.
I absolutely agree.
>Why does he get a pass faggot.
Charisma and genre convention.
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>>91735825
>>This is not a comment on the films, this is a comment on your mindset.
>As has already been established, mindset doens't matter, only cold hard facts matter. And the cold hard facts can refute the argument that
>>ZOD WAS NOT HIS MESS
>As, after thirty years of being told that revealing himself would have disastrous consequences on humanity, Clark turns on an ancient alien ship without thinking about the consequences for even a second, using a key ONLY he has access to. Zod's motivations are to resurrect Krypton, which he can ONLY do with Clark's DNA.
>No Clark = No Key, No Zod on Earth, no ability to resurrect Krypton (and thus no real reason to activate the world engine, No Lex sperging out (and even if he does, No Zod Corpse means no Doomsday), and maybe even no Darkseid.
>Getting mad doesn't change the facts. Two can play this "look at the actions alone" game.
But again, if anything that's Jor El's fault or "mess".
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>>91735851
>Charisma and genre convention.
This isn't much too vague to be the deciding factor of an argument.
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>>91735374
>Fact 3: Kryptonian technology only exists in a usable form on earth because of Clark.
This one is definitely false. In fact, there were normal people on the expedition where Clark happened to find the scout ship. If Clark weren't there the humans might have found it and Emil Hamilton or some other high level scientist may have found a way to activate it after some time of research, leading Zod to Earth at a later date. You act as if Clark never existed neither would Zod.
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>>91735864
>But again, if anything that's Jor El's fault or "mess".
Jor El didn't activate the scout ship.
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>>91735825
>As, after thirty years of being told that revealing himself would have disastrous consequences on humanity
Because of humanity itself, the fear was society would throw a shit fit and genocides and war would happen.
> Clark turns on an ancient alien ship without thinking about the consequences for even a second
The military deconstructing the ship for decades to likely make weapons & such would be worse then any logical scenario he could have come up with in his head to not activate it and remove it from their hands.
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>>91735907
Jor El is the reason Clark is the codex, as you said, that is why Zod needs him.
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>>91735896
>might
>may
By your own words that's only a theory.
Whereas the movie specifically says the key that turns the scout ship on is made of elements that do not exist on earth at all; so it's a much stronger argument they'd never be able to activate it in a way that would
And if you want to theorize, I get to do it to: In the time it takes humanity to figure out a way to use the alien technology they unearth, Zod and his crew have died of old age on the other end of the universe, as they have no powers or enhanced lifespan outside of a yellow sun. Meanwhile, humanity uses the technology they've gleaned over decades of research to cure all disease and elevate mankind via a technological singularity.
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>>91735991
>Meanwhile, humanity uses the technology they've gleaned over decades of research to cure all disease and elevate mankind via a technological singularity.
yikes
You are far from impartial on this issue, clearly.
>>
>>91734601
Notice the other name in charge of screenplay. Its easy as fuck to come up with a story. Writing believable characters and interactions is the hard part. Goyer only knows how to do one of those things on his own.
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>>91735991
The point of the theory is to prove that there was a way in which the events could happen without Clark's interference, which is what certain people were claiming. Fact is, Zod could have found earth without Clark's interference. Also, Lex was evil even before Superman showed up in MoS. The only thing that changed was the scale of his villainy.
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>>91736053
>Its easy as fuck to come up with a story.
Story credit always means a full script draft in hollywood.
Look it up.
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>>91735888
It really isn't.
Snyder actively, consciously, and explicitly wanted to craft a world where the protagonists are at best, Byronic heroes, where eve n the most innocuous of altrustiic actions are deconstructed and redefined as negative. (He and many DCEU fans specifically give the example of getting a cat out of a tree). He wanted a universe where you don't get a pass on collateral damage.
That's what you wanted. This is what you're praising. But that that coin has two sides to it. You want "heroes" to be complex figures called into question and their victories to be pyhrric? Fine. But that means acknowledging that flies in face of established genre convention where we give them a pass on the explosions so long as there's net gain.
But instead you want to go "look how horrible it is when this happens! why is everyone saying it's horrible that this happened?"
You want a series where they shine a spotlight on the flaws inherent in the existence of superhumans but don't want to acquiesce to those same flaws. You want to praise the difference in tone and presentation but then go "Objectively tone doesn't matter!" If it doesn't matter, then there's nothing to praise!
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>>91736096
Story credit means that they have written a full script draft, not that the script used in shooting is that same script. There are a bunch of rules for story and screenwriter credit, you can still get a writing credit even if only 1/3 of your draft remains in the final product.
>>
>>91735908
>Because of humanity itself, the fear was society would throw a shit fit and genocides and war would happen.
And yet he has no problem leaving a bunch of alien technology and corpses where humans can play with them. Despite the fact that they're not ready.
> The military deconstructing the ship for decades to likely make weapons & such would be worse then any logical scenario he could have come up with in his head to not activate it and remove it from their hands.
Like he removed Zod's Body? Like he removed the Black Zero? Oh wait he didn't do that, because Lex uses them.
>>91736021
I'm simply playing by the rules you put forth. If you go "It maybe would've happened anyway" why cant I go "Maybe it'd get better"?
>>91736094
If Lex was gonna be evil regardless then what are his motivations again?
>>
>>91736245
>If Lex was gonna be evil regardless then what are his motivations again?
He was already evil. His motivations to do specific things against Superman are different than his motivations to do evil things in general.
>>
>>91735908
>Because of humanity itself, the fear was society would throw a shit fit and genocides and war would happen.
So, realistically, humans wouldn't give Superman the benefit of the doubt.
....So why are you insisting that I do so?
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>>91736171
Snyder's Superman isn't a Byronic hero by a long-shot, he's a martyr more than anything. His Batman is a Byronic hero, but that's nothing particularly new nor unique to Batman. Wonder Woman looks to be shaping up as a tragic hero, at least in background.
>>
>>91736401
That's why I said "at best".
I don't think his Superman is the best.
>>
>>91729233
Since when? I keep seeing this meme but never any actual evidence backing it, just people wishing it was true. Ever since it was announced people were getting triggered over it, pretending that people who liked Snyder's Superman absolutely under no circumstances could like this version too.
>>
>>91736356
Not that guy but I thought you wouldn't have subscribed to Snyder's supposed cynicism and that that was the whole point.
>>
>>91736508
Under his argument that's the only (or most likely) thing that'd happen in reality so why not? If I'm supposed to disagree with his premise why are his defenders losing their shit when I do?
>>
>>91736583
uh
Let me try to untangle this.
>>91736583
>Under his argument that's the only (or most likely) thing that'd happen
Yes, and sense it's his *argument*, I assumed that there was a disagreement.
>>91736583
>If I'm supposed to disagree with his premise why are his defenders losing their shit when I do?
Losing their shit=/=getting exasperated with the hardheadedness of some people.
>>
>>91736583
>>91736647
>sense
*since
I'm tired.
>>
>>91736647
>Yes, and sense it's his *argument*, I assumed that there was a disagreement.
I'm disagreeing as to what the character SHOULD be *if for no other reason than because the genre conventions that kept him from being this are what prevented this conversation in other incarnations, the so called "pass" everyone else gets) and expressing confusion as to why when I agree to what he IS, there's pushback, even while said changes from the classical standard are praised.
If you don't want classical boyscout Superman that's probably okay. I disagree with it, but that's okay. If you want a Superman that's called into question, whose victories are pyhrric, and is generally a little problematic, that's a departure but you're entitled to want that. I don't, but I wouldn't begrudge it were people constantly going on and on about how much smarter and more realistic it is while simultaneously chimping out when I agree to the core premise of the concept being flawed. You can't praise flaws and then get mad when people go "yeah but the flaws".
You can't really say "Superman wouldn't be seen as a hero in reality" and then go "HE'S A HERO SHUT UP" without coming off as a massive hypocrite.
>>
>>91736855
>how much smarter and more realistic it is
I'm not sure how much this actually happens.
Just like i'm not sure that what the OP is claiming actually happens.
>>
>>91736855
>>91736890
Forgot to say that it's much more than people saying
>yeah but the flaws
take this guy for example
>>91732688
>>
>>91736890
>I'm not sure how much this actually happens.
"You just don't understand it" is a pretty common rallying cry in defense of these. If you can't find that sentiment in this thread then you've either figured out some kind of filter I need to emulate or you're being dishonest.
>>
>>91737064
You don't understand=/=it's a super kino masterpiece that will show you the one truth of our universe.
A lot of people did not understand the movie, as evidenced any time people talk about them here. The argument is whether they are dumb or whether the movie was actually hard to follow.
I personally found the ultimate cut easy to follow if you paid attention.
Maybe the theatrical was more opaque, I never saw it.
>>
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>>91729334
He sure as hell got a lot of free time on his hands now that all his villains would rather fuck with Supergirl. Whaddaya suppose he's doin' nowadays?
>>
>>91737153
>A lot of people did not understand the movie, as evidenced any time people talk about them here.
Not really, Not when arguing that the internal logic of the movie has holes is met with "You just don't get it", it was great Name the plot holes. Those don't count!".
The movie is very, VERY easy to follow. It's just that you have to make logical leaps to follow it AND think it's narrative is both good and sensible.
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>>91737494
>It's just that you have to make logical leaps to follow it
But I didn't is what i'm saying.
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>>91737465
Lois.
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>>91737509
Are you only quoting only half the line on purpose?
Anyone can understand Snyder's movies.
Thinking they're good on top of that tends to require headcanons, metatextual precedent, and a whole lot of ad hominem attacks.
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He's happy. Snyder's Superman is a miserable and mope year schmuck
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