DC Rebirth Watchmen

>>91724484
>Comedian
He hasn't even showed up yet...has he?

>>91724602
Yep. He's one of the three Jokers that now exist.

>>91724642
When was this confirmed?

Hurm.

>>91724681
never, Anon is pulling shit out of his ass. Other than Manhattan none of these guys made an appearance. These are the same idiots who first thought Gotham and Gotham Girl were going to be Nite Owl and Silk Spectre.

Dude what if the Minutemen became the Gentry lmao

>>91724780
It's safe to assume Ozymandias is Mr Oz

>>91724865
No it isn't. It's likely Alexander Luthor Jr.

>>91724602
He was in the latest issue of Superman. Sent a giant octopus to attack Hamilton

>>91725011
That's more likley Manchester Black (Black Dawn, Cigarette) than Comedian.

>>91724956
Current thinking is he could be Superboy Prime.

Literally all these theories are stupid as fuck.

>>91725102
>Superboy Prime
Where'd you get that from?

>>91725155
I've seen it posted around, of what I can remember :

>Hates Speedsters (involved in keeping Wally and Jay out the picture)
>Focused on Superman
>Time Trapper resemblance
>During Reborn a Clark with a bleeding S appeared on a cover, and while Fake clark ended up being Mxyzltplk it shows that at minimum DC knows there would be hype around Prime.

Can't remember much else.

>>91724956
But Alexander Luthor Jr is still a Darkseid baby with Grail, isn't he???

Or do you me pre-flashpoint heavily murdered Alexander Luthor.
No wait that was the III.

Which Alexander Luthor Jr are you talking about?

>>91724865
There is absolutely nothing to suggest this other than that his name is "Oz" and he sometimes looks at screens.

>>91724865
Not even close.

Oz is constantly in flux.

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>>91725724
And this

>>91724484
>>How will they power creep Rorschach,
He is now The Question- specifically, The Question is an avatar\fragment\whatever of Rorschach.

Or viceversa.

>>91724865
Nope. The ending of Superman Reborn clearly showed he is working against Manhattan or at least is neutral to him. There weren't any "old pals" vibes.

>>91726710
Why have any old pal vibes if Oz really is working against him?

>>91726354
You say that with certainty even though there's zero implication of that whatsoever.

>>91725011
>cigarette
>speaks like a brit
>psychic powers
>hates Superman
>arc titled Black Dawn
>solicit includes "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" word for word
At this point, it's all but confirmed that's Manchester Black

>>91726710
They weren't exactly pals in the first place.
>>91724642
I think it's safe to assume any dead character in Watchmen won't be coming back except in flashback form. Comedian and Rorschach are skelly and jelly respectively.

>>91728136
I'm expecting the reveal that Manhattan's "splat" doesn't actually kill, so they can return Metron, Owlman, and Rorschach

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I almost typed up and extremely autistic post detailing this theory, but I'll try to simplify it to just be moderately autistic.

Manhattan is not the actual villain, but the writers are setting him up as to lead us to believe he is.

What would Manhattan's motivation possibly be to alter the DCU? He was consistently shown in Watchmen to be generally benevolent, if somewhat apathetic and disillusioned.

Now the rest of this is projection and not even a theory:

The actual villain would have to be an even bigger deal than Manhattan, who already kind of tops every previous multiversal/event villain in that he's not even from the DC multiverse and from a sacred cow of a book like Watchmen.

So the most prominent alternative that comes to mind: Empty Hand. Now, the way I interpreted EH is as the hand of the editor/writer that controls and resets the Multiverse to appease the Gentry/fandom. Many feel that Multiverse-2 is supposed to refer to Multiverses outside of DC, but I think it simply meant the pre-Flashpoint Multiverse. Empty Hand will eventually come for Multiverse-3, or the third iteration of the Multiverse, or our current one.

This is where Manhattan comes in. He actually took ten years from the DCU in order to SAVE it from destruction. Younger multiverse = less continuity = more #1's = satisfied Gentry.

Now there are also a lot of meta-implications that come with the use of Empty Hand with a seminal work like Watchmen, which is another reason I think they chose Manhattan.

That said, maybe Manhattan is still the one killing those who could try to interfere with the timeline and expose his whole plan, because they risk bringing the Multiverse closer to destruction.

My other theory is that Mr. Oz is, in fact, Manhattan himself, who has been significantly drained from altering the timeline. "Oz" could be a shortening of "Osterman", Manhattan's name before he became Manhattan.

Again, this is all autistic funnybook analysis.

>>91725011
It's Manchester Black, not Comedian.

>>91728387
Everyone wants it to be Gentry-related.

I feel like no one at DC but Morrison actually cares about Morrison-invented things.

>>91728387
The whole Empty Hand and Gentry thing seems a little too Hypercrisis-y for mainstream readers, at least in my opinion.

But Oz being short for Osterman and not Ozymandias would be a good twist. I certainly never considered that.

However, didn't Mr Oz refer to Manhattan ("he/him") as a separate entity at the end of Superman Reborn? When the panel begins zooming in on Mars?

>>91728533
Johns definitely does.

Personally, I've heard just as many saying that using Multiversity is sacrilege as saying using Watchmen is sacrilege.

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>>91728533
That sounds reasonable. And yet...

>>91728574
>However, didn't Mr Oz refer to Manhattan ("he/him") as a separate entity at the end of Superman Reborn? When the panel begins zooming in on Mars?
Now that you mention it, yes. But again, the part about Oz being Manhattan is probably my farthest-reaching part of the theory.

Making Empty Hand/Gentry part of the threat would certainly push sales of the Multiversity TPB/hardcover for years to come, and Watchmen certainly doesn't need the help in terms of sales

>>91728622
Batman holding a bat-winged gadget.

Totally a reference to that Final Fantasy monster from Multiversity.

>>91728533
>I feel like no one at DC but Morrison actually cares about Morrison-invented things.
Nightwing's and Superman's current runs have used Morrison content. The issue is that Geoff Johns doesn't seem to care for any of the Morrison stuff in the New 52.

>>91728533
Seeley is really fond of it, stuff from DickBats pops up all the time. Right now, Dick and Damien have just beaten Pyg and are going after Dr. Hurt.

>>91728575
>Personally, I've heard just as many saying that using Multiversity is sacrilege as saying using Watchmen is sacrilege.
I can kinda understand Watchmen, it's great and selfcontained.
But Multiversity was made to be used and built upon.

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>>91728673
>a black circular object with bat wings and an eye in the center
Yes, I do think there might be a slight connection there

>>91725011
Next issue's solicit literally references Kelly's story. It's fucking Manchester Black

>>91728727
The Batman run is a huge exception because so much of the stuff he created for that fits mainstream comics, but the big crazy ideas he introduces in his crossovers never go anywhere and the characters he creates that are their own thing not connected to somebody else like Aztek, Zauriel, Nix Utoan, nobody else ever touches that stuff.

>>91728769
Do you have any idea how many flying drones with camera eyes have shown up in Batman comics over the years?

>>91728839
Please post one that resembles the Gentry bat just as much as the one I posted

>>91728769
Whoa, that's a big Keese from Legend of Zelda.

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>>91728902
It's called a bat, hombre

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What an amazing idea Morrison came up with that no one has ever had before.

>>91728387
Multiverse - 2 was Marvel. The Gentry's first victim was Earth 7, the Ultimate analouge. On the same day when the last Multiversity issue released and EH stated they have destroyed the second Multiverse, in Hickman's Avengers the final two Earths (616 and Ultimate) to have survived the universe destroying Incursions collided. And so ended the Marvel Multiverse.

>>91728387
>"it's not manhattan you autists"
>"that being said, manhattan is involved in the majority of the occurrences that lead us to believe it is manhattan"

>>91728769
Why does that Gentry creature look like that, anyway? It's gotta be significant, a bat monster in the DC multiverse. Does it somehow represent Batman or Batman fandom? Did a version of Batman create the Gentry somehow, which would just make it an organic looking Brother Eye?

>>91728801
Even there, almost all of Batman Inc's new characters went nowhere (they replaced interesting Batwing with the bland as fuck Batwing). Damian, Professor Pyg, and Hurt are the main survivors the run.

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>>91729028
Well they're alive and kickin again so what happened, Grant?

>>91729087
>interesting Batwing

Seems to me like he was replaced specifically because no one wanted to either read or write about Africa.

>>91729089
All Hope Lies in Doom

>>91729080
I think it' may be a representation of DC fans who want everything to be darker AKA more like Batman.

>>91729039
The first is postulating that Manhattan is definitely not the primary villain. I'm pretty much positive this is true because it doesn't make much sense for Manhattan to be malicious towards the DCU, and it also doesn't make much sense to hype up a "mystery" villain when the reader knows he who is from issue one.

The second is just a theory to try and explain why Metron was killed for seemingly no reason, or why they appeared to still be killed in the same fashion that Manhattan does. We know Manhattan has no problem killing for the greater good. Metron and Thawne are both time travelers who could expose and ruin Manhattan's plan to save the DCU by removing ten years.

The two points do not contradict each other.

>>91729028
That's the popular interpretation, but there really is no direct evidence of it other than the release date.

What reason does Empty Hand, clearly a malicious meta-entity, have to destroy the Marvel multiverse? Especially since it didn't even destroy it, it just wiped out all but one world. The Marvel Multiverse still technically exists, it just has only one world in it now.

It just doesn't really make sense to me in the context of Multiversity, with Empty Hand being related to Ultra Comics who exists in the DC Multiverse.

>>91729089
The editors/Empty Hand have ressurected it without it's 'soul'.

>The Fantastic Four are gone
>Captain America, the moral centre, is a facist.
>Wiping 50+ years of X-Men character development with the 05
>Every new character is created to a 'Young ethnic genius in New York' formula instead of evolving naturally.
>Kirby (Who has been presented as the MU's God before) is outside a filler event completely ignored for his 100th in favour of the corruption of the character he created to fight Nazism into a figure who actively helped their war effort.
>Synergy and branding potential over good stories.

>>91729347
> there really is no direct evidence of it other than the release date
That's more than enough evidence for /hypercrisis/

the true villains are the jews
warm regards from /pol/

>>91729134
>>91729080
are you guys retarded? Its based off the Orphic egg:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphic_Egg

which is sometimes depicted with angelic wings.

>In Greek myth, particularly Orphic thought, Phanes (mythology) is the golden winged primordial being who was hatched from the shining cosmic egg that was the source of the universe. Called Protogonos (First-Born) and Eros (Love) — being the seed of gods and men — Phanes means "Manifestor" or "Revealer," and is related to the Greek words "light" and "to shine forth" as well as the Latin "Lucifer".


So its literally an inversion of the bringer of light/life/revelation/etc.

The flying gentry is the opposite of that, destroying light/life/revelation/etc.
Fuck off with your baby ass sensibilities


>DC fans want everything to be darker

just fuck right off and go watch your cartoons you moron.

>>91729445
no, not really

>>91729028
>>91729420
its a shitty fan theory with little evidence

>>91729506
Welcome to Hypercrisis threads.

>>91729445
The fact that fans interpreted it that way is what Hypercrisis is all about.

But I think it was intended to be pre-Flashpoint, since the element of there being prior Multiverses is extremely important to the concept of Empty Hand and the Gentry and I would bet goes back to at around when New 52 happened, if not even earlier.

So much of Multiversity is thematically tied to the New 52.

>>91729478
>it's an inversion of the Orphic Egg
That's a pretty good observation. Makes sense. But not everyone has this kind of knowledge regarding Greek lore, so I'm sure there will be some DC Universe tie-ins as well. Especially since the flying Gentry resembles a BAT, like one of DC's most iconic heroes.

>DC fans want everything to be darker
I didn't say that at all. I said SOME want everything to be darker. And I was just speculating on Morrison's point of view when designing the monster. I'm a DC fan, and I know many DC fans, and none of us want it any darker than it already is.

Calm down.

>>91729347
>The Marvel Multiverse still technically exists, it just has only one world in it now.

Except at the end of Secret Wars, Molecule Man and the Richards' are recreating all the destroyed worlds.

>>91728533
Seeley and Tomasi care. Apparently so does humphries. But I agree that multiversity is too niche for mainstream audiences. Even if it wasnt, everyone already expects Dr Manhattan

>>91729080
Morrison confirmed at SDCC 2015 that it's based on alchemic texts. A soul is represented by a winged egg.

>>91729693
Well, whatever, I didn't read Secret Wars. Point is just that the Marvel Multiverse was not annihilated like Empty Hand appears to be doing to Multiverse-2.

>>91729420

I think you nailed it.

>>91729506

Except for Marvel comics itself. It really is that.

They should just fucking shut down the publisher and blow up the offices after Stan dies. It should not survive its creator.

>>91729759
>I didn't read Secret Wars.

I wish I hadn't, either. It was a waste of time and beautiful art.

>>91728136
I doubt dead characters from Watchmen are returning too. They are very careful to not piss off people with this, so at least they'll respect the source material the best they can.

>>91725357
Mr. Oz is far too smart to be Superboy Prime considering one of Prime's big traits is that he's a fucking dunce. Prime will show up again but Primefags need to stop with the "oh it's a mysterious character it must be Superboy Prime" bullshit.

>>91730123
Though you're probably right, I'd say there are just as many fans who would love to see Rorschach and Comedian return and interact with inhabitants of the DC Universe. I certainly would, but I would also respect it if they stay dead because they are iconic characters whose deaths are very important to the Watchmen narrative

>>91730069
>Except for Marvel comics itself. It really is that.


but it isnt