Why are Legacies such a big deal and controversial in Comics,

>>91704214
It all comes down with Big 2 comics not really having a middle and an end.

Its just status quo to status quo, forever.

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enjoying comics requires a very special brand of autism

>>91704214
>personality
What personality. Link is a self-insert for the player, a literal link between game and user.

>>91704214
>>91704237
mostly this

Each Link, despite being different, have their own stories and endings. You complete the game, you finish the narrative of that Link. Spider-Man still exists. Batman still exists. They sometimes get replacements but everyone wants the original because they're still around.

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>>91704214

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Were you around when Windwaker came out? It was literally NOT MUH ZELDA AND LINK over and over and over again.

Only years later was it finally accepted. Skyward Sword had similar issues with "fans".

People are all over BotW because it's finally what people have wanted since OoT.

If it ain't white(and male) it ain't right.

>>91704214
Those characters were likeable
These characters are sjw pandering shit, written by sjws that can't write for shit, not a single good interesting story. Everything about these people is political, and those politics are all sjw shit. AT LEAST FROM CURRENT MARVEL

Usually, I think it has to do with the previous mantle holder being a tragic victim of bad writing. See Blue Beetle and Bat Girl for two very different examples of how this can play out.

The short answer is that there is often more direct continuity in comics than in video games.

Also you're fucking delusional if you are trying to claim fans didn't pitch a fit over Raiden.

Because games generally don't have characters hold a title for decades at a time before suddenly switching to some new asshole. And even then there are exceptions. Nobody liked Ninja Theory's Dante, and Samus in Other M is an entirely different person that everyone hates.

Furthermore, in most of your examples of successful mantle handoffs, the original character isn't brutally murdered so the successor can exist and shit all over their legacy.

Miles is fagging up Ultimate Peter's good name.

>happens all the time in Games
Like when? Other than Link who only gets away with it because he has so little character that they were able to say "they were different people who looked almost identical" after the fact when they felt like taking the lore in a different direction. Hell, people were pissed when Dante got a hair cut

There are a couple other cases similar to link where different characters with the same name get used in different games in the franchise (like the Ryu's in Breath of Fire), but they share the quality of having no character whatsoever.

>>91704293
Hylia was a mistake as was SS's contributions to the 'lore' of the series such as it is.

I mean, really, The Golden Godesses create everything, make the triforce, hand it over to their fat friend who did nothing, and then fly off into space?

Zelda's only worth shit because said fat goddess wanted to fuck Link really bad?

Fuck all that noise.

>>91704214
Because story is one of the least important aspects of video games. I think it was Carmack who said that the stories in video games are like the stories in porn, nobody cares about them, but they still need to be there. Comics are different, like literature we read comics for the stories and little else. We care about the stories, we care about the characters. We like Clark Kent as Superman and Bruce Wayne as Batman because we like them as people, the experiences they've had is what made them decide to do what they do, and we care about what challenges they face in trying to make the world a better place. Nobody cares about Link or Doomguy, or Mario, or Said, they are just cardboard cutout vehicles for the player to insert themselves into.

Experience is what is most important in video games, your experience as you play and how it makes you feel. That's why Doom is the greatest video game in the history of the medium, it was the first game that made players really feel like they were exploring a virtual world that could make them feel emotions like fear and creepiness and horror and bloodlust, it was a watershed moment for video games. That's important, the experience of the player, not the character.

Link is a blank state
MGS2 would be a better example of it in games and even then people were fucking pissed.

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>>91704214
Video games require legacies in order to keep the gameplay more or less the same as the last incarnation. Fans also like to feel important, but might want a setting change, necessitating a legacy character.

>>91704293
People are all over Breath of the Wild because it's a generic sandbox Morrowind rip-off with token crafting and all the other asinine shit that are all the rage with consumers these days.

I hang around with a lot of /v/ burnouts, but even among them it takes a special kind of autism to care about the lore in Zelda as more than just dressing. That's the whole point of the interchangeable character thing. People don't give a shit if it's the same Link, what they give a shit about is whether it looks like Lord of the Rings or some cartoony coloring book.

>>91704293
>TFW there are people still triggered by BotW Link being right handed

>>91704431
>>91704579
Pls never come to /v/ with your retardedness.

>>91704214
Link is not a different person in each game, you retard.

It's canon that he reincarnates into each link.

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There's definitely still problems with legacies in games. They tried to introduce Locke in Halo 5 as another protagonist and everybody hated him. And it's not just a writing problem. Lots of people hated the Arbiter parts of Halo 2

>>91704214
>3 different Donkey Kongs
I know of Cranky = DK (NES) and DK = DK Jr, but who's the third?

>>91704514
Carmack is a washed up autisto

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>>91704293
Not me.

I want more topdown style. I grew up on Gameboy Zelda.

>>91704676
Mass Effect Andromeda is hitting that now. Course its more the shit writing making it hard to get into Rider as the protag than anything else.

>>91704339
Nah, people sperg over Robins too. Not as bad, but they still do.

>>91704514
Carmack sounds like a dumbass.

Story-driven games are separate from gameplay releases.
Nobody buys Mario for the new story, nobody buys Mass Effect or Telltalle Games games for gameplay.

Both exist.

>>91704648
That's a different person each time regardless of reincarnation.

Unless memory and personality remains intact.

>>91704698
Technically any Kong starring in a Donkey Kong game.

So Dixie.

>>91704648
Anon, please. Each Link is a different person, and simply possesses the 'Spirit of the Hero', which is the thing that basically keeps reincarnating.

Each Link is different, except for the link from Oot and Majora's Mask, the Link from A Link to the Past/Oracle of Ages & Seasons/Links Awakening, Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass, and Legend of Zelda/Zelda II

In fact, in Twilight Princess, the 'Hero's Spirit' is a character you encounter and learn from, who was the previous incarnation of Link.

Wind Waker Link actually has no connection to the previous Links, as the Link from OoT went back into the past, breaking the cycle. WW Link then basically has to prove he is worthy.

A reincarnation is still a different person, despite some similarities here and there

>>91704753
>*glass him*
>3 and Andromeda

Well whoever's buying it, they sure as hell ain't buying it for the story either.

If you actually think BotW is a good game, kill yourself.

>>91704808
I didn't say they get what they paid for. Just that gameplay is the obstacle to earn your story in those games, not the means through which the enjoyment is largely derived.

Zooming around in the Mako was funstrating and cover shooting was okayish, but people got into that for Rex, Garrus, Tali, and the sense of being space cop Indiana Jones.

Link barely has any personality and all of his incarnations look the same.

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Would playing a game with decent enough gameplay and a decent enough story for its fucking amazing atmosphere and visuals be gameplay or story?

>>91704324
I think it's more like, Nintendo doesn't and navel did make a big deal about Link being a different incarnation that the player inserts themselves as. Marvel however glorifies the hell out their new character and makes it sound like you couldn't have related to 'insert progressive OC here' before if the reader was black or some shit.

>>91704920
Gameplay.
Also SotN is better than all those games you just posted.

>>91704514
Dude I don't know about you, but I can't finish unless the girl has a fun personality and a well developed character arc of her getting two dicks in her ass.

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>>91704214
>while other forms of media like Games do it all the time and very few people talk about it.
You are so fucking stupid I really hope you either gain intelligence or die soon.

People bitch at legacy shit all the time. When Windwaker was released there was non stop bitching about how it wasn't a Zelda game and may cry foul on all fronts from visuals to the Hero
Other M was a huge reboot of Samus that fans hated with a passion and all but killed the brand
The newest GoW was meet with contempt over changes made
Devil May Cry 2 was hated for it changes in narrative and tone

I could go on forever because that industry is just as sensitive to change as comics. Same with films, TV, Books and so forth. None of this shit is new and I hope you wise up to that before you embarrass.

>>91704214
It's because Zelda is the Hero's Journey. It's an ageless metastory. Comics tend to tell different stories altogether.

>>91704268
Temperament, expressions, that sort of thing. They tend to be lazy in the beginning.

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>>91704214
>while other forms of media like Games do it all the time and very few people talk about it.
confirmed for never following any gaming community

>>91705005
Castlevania in general is like that.

Gameplay is mediocre, stories are usually better off not existing, and most characters in the series look like Korean ladyboys in cosplay.

But dose backgrounds, dat music, dem monsters.

>>91704293
Squidward Sword is still shit.

>>91705131
>castlevania
>mediocre gameplay
The 2D ones have great gameplay though.

>>91704214
>Link is a completely different person in each Zelda game (with few exceptions) and no one cares at all, despite each one being different in everything from age, personality, temperament, hair colour and even costume

Are you for real? Link does the same shit every game, acts the same way, even dresses almost the same every single time, he's basically the same character every game, you couldn't come up with a different trait for them even if you tried.

>Donkey Kong

Holy shit, who gives a fuck about Donkey Kong lore.

>Snake

That's not even close to being the same thing.

I cannot conceive of a person who unironically obsesses over fucking Zelda lore.

You may as well pore over the lore of the Doom franchise or, I don't know, Mad Max? The idea of trying to connect a grand narrative tapestry out of a franchise which basically repeats "Blond twink elf travels the land to stab a gigantic pig over and over" seems like lunacy.

>>91705063
Don't forget Dark Souls 1 to 2, Bloodborne's existence, Metal Gear Solid 5 twist on what it does on lore, Halo 5 that out right has a legacy character, Resident Evil ORC, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, Fallout, and well shit just about everything has had a "not muh" in video games

>>91705239
>Are you for real? Link does the same shit every game, acts the same way, even dresses almost the same every single time, he's basically the same character every game, you couldn't come up with a different trait for them even if you tried.

Original link is a silent adventurer
Toon link is more sarcastic compare to the other links. And little more happy.
Twilight link is a country boy.
Ocarina time is a anti-social
I think skyward sword link is like a school boy.

>>91705310

>Metal Gear Solid 5 twist on what it does on lore

Kojima wasted 9000000000000000 yen on what amounted to a gigantic trolling of the fanbase and the closing of a plot hole that no one cared about. That goes beyond not muh.

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>>91704698
DK 1 was Cranky/ Arcade
DK2 was Jr
DK 3 was Country

>>91704529
>>91704339
Raiden is an example of him having a shitty introduction. Literally stealing the starring role from Snake and spending the whole game not knowing anything about anything soiled his appearance for fans. But then, much like War Machine, he crafted his own identity and is liked more now than he ever was in 2. If he was introduced and advertised as the lead right from the beginning, it would have been a smoother transition. (The website for MGS2 still says that Snake is the lead, btw)

>>91704431
I think you're overly simplifying the issue there. Leaving out Demise and Ghirahim for one thing...

>>91704324
Saying that someone is unlikable is subjective. When Rhodey took over the role of Iron man back in the day they got almost no complaints despite it being a less enlightened time than today. Meanwhile people are still bitching about Captain Falcon despite Sam being Steve's partner longer than Bucky has, relatively speaking. Also see my point above about Raiden. He was absolutely hated by everyone who played MGS2, but after disappearing for a while, being the butt of a joke in 3, and returning as a super cool Cyborg in 4 (Which technically means he took both Snake's mantle and Grey Fox's role as the Cyborg Ninja), he's now got just as much love and respect as Solid Snake and Big Boss. Saying legacy passing is shit and should never happen, means we never would have gotten MGR:R. The same could happen to any of the characters you're complaining about now. Give them time and put them in a different role, and it'll make a world of difference

>>91704610
he's right about botw and you know it

>>91705346
Fair enough but my bigger point was more OP makes it sound like gamers are chilled people when the reality is they are just as hostile and negative to these kinds of changes as any other medium.

>>91704293
>People are all over BotW because it's finally what people have wanted since OoT.
was there a joke in there i missed?

>>91704214
BotW was terrible though.

>>91705393

>Fair enough but my bigger point was more OP makes it sound like gamers are chilled people when the reality is they are just as hostile and negative to these kinds of changes as any other medium.

Oh I don't disagree with you on principle, it's just that the salt still runs through my veins for 5.

>>91704214
Oh yeah? RE fans really accepted Jake and like him way more than Chris and Leon

>>91705440

>Oh yeah? RE fans really accepted Jake

That's more about trying to find the kernels of corn in the manure pile that is RE6.

> and like him way more than Chris and Leon

o i am laffin

>>91705484
I actually did like Jake, but the post was sarcastic anon

>>91704214
TMNT does it all the time.

It's just that they do it great 9/10 times. They all make sure that they stick to what makes TMNT great, while pulling from it's history and adding just a little bit of new stuff.

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>>91704214

>>91704706
>That face.

I forgot that Tumblr noses were a thing and ruined all they touched.

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>>91704579
>with token crafting
Only four special weapons in the game can even be crafted. Your comeback is going to be, "That's what makes it token," but you already made it clear you didn't play or even really watch the game. You mentioned this minor extra that lets you hang on to gifted weapons without granting you four free pass permanent slots like it was a detriment to the experience.

>>91705506

I haven't slept in over 24 hours, my sarcasm detector is off

>>91705244
I did when I was thirteen and was obsessed with LTTP. But yeah, growing up changes how you see what's really important in games and stories.

>>91705393
I wasn't trying to say they were chill, far from it. I was on /v/ when GG happened, so I know all about how stupid they are. I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio, who got replaced by Conner, who got replaced by Edward, whereas people were ready to boycott Devil May Cry 4 over Nero replacing Dante, before gameplay footage was released and people accepted him. DMC Dante was a disgrace, but then again, so was the whole game, so that's just a drop in a bucket of complaints

>>91704214
Stop being such a retarded casual. People don't have a problem with legacies as long as they are done organically. See DC.

They have a problem when they are rushed and forced immediately. See Marvel.

>>91705584

> I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio, who got replaced by Conner, who got replaced by Edward, whereas people were ready to boycott Devil May Cry 4 over Nero replacing Dante

AssCreed had the concept of different protagonists built into he mainline narrative though, that's part of the premise. That's fairly rare for a triple-A franchise.

Dante was always the hero of DMC. It'd be more like replacing Desmond with someone else, but no one gives a salty fuck about Desmond Miles so it didn't matter when that happened.

>>91704214
>but that idea rarely seems to be explored in comics

You don't read comics.

For me it depends on who the replacement is. It needs to be someone who makes sense.

Dick taking over for Bruce as Batman? Great.
Laura taking over for Logan as Wolverine? Fine.
Bucky taking over for Steve as Captain America? Fantastic.

It's when completely unrelated or weird choices happen that I fucking hate it.
Like that random nigger girl for Tony Stark, or Kamala for Carol.

>>91704268
>self insert meme
You haven't played the games

>>91704293
The reason there was so much negativity toward Wind Waker had nothing to do with Link and Zelda, it was because of the deliberately-shitty art style.

>>91705340

Those seem like very minor differences.
It's still just slightly different versions of the same character over and over again.

Well maybe except Toon Link.

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>Number of people who have been Captain America:
Steve Rogers> Isaiah Bradley (Unofficially)> John Walker> Jeffrey Mace/ Patriot 1> Bucky Barnes> Sam Wilson

>Number of people who have been Captain Marvel:
Mar-vell> Monica Rambeau> Genis Vell> Phyla Vell> Carol Danvers> Kamala (Eventually?)

>Number of people who have been Thor:
Thor> Beta Ray Bill> Eric Masterson> Jane Foster> New Ultimate guy (Odin?)

>Number of people who have been Iron Man:
Tony Stark> Rhodey> Dr. Doom (Riri is Iron Heart technically)

>Number of people who have been Ant Man:
Hank Pym> Scott Lang> Eric O'Grady

Mantles do happen in comics, they just never stick because everyone wants to go back to the original one because that's the one they grew up with.

>>91705832

> it was because of the deliberately-shitty art style.

I NEED MATURE ZELDA

THE BLADES NEED TO BLEED

NEED TO BLEED
E
E
D

T
O

B
L
E
E
D

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>>91705584
>I'm trying to say more that no one cares that Altair got replaced by Ezio
1. you were reliving ancestors memories in the games so as a starting narrative it was understood it would work like Dial H
2.people still did care a lot
> people accepted him
People as a whole NEVER accepted Nero, what cooled their heels was when Dante gameplay footage happen and was in the demo. To this day most still dislike him

You are just trying to create a narrative that just isn't there

>>91705349
>implying that for some reason Donkey Kong Jr and Country are different characters
>Implying MGS4 Raiden is better than MGS2 Raiden
>preferring MGS4 to MGS2

Go kill yourself, you mentally retarded waste of space

>>91704214
>Solid Snake
>Naked Snake
Okay, they were taking the piss, right?

>>91705959
hey now, stop insulting the mentally retarded wastes of space out there, even they can see how dumb the guy is.

>>91704214
Legacies work better in stories that have well-defined endings, something that American comics (especially those in the Marvel and DC universes) almost never have.

The way a legacy can work best in an open-ended comic is like with the Robins. DIck graduated to being Nightwing, an identity he's now as much if not more associated with as Robin, and thus it doesn't feel like he's being pushed aside when somebody else takes up the Robin codename.

>>91705986
You seriously don't know shit about Metal Gear?
>Solid Snake fights against his clone brother with recessive genes, Liquid Snake
>They are clones of Naked Snake

>>91705837

I would argue that skyward link and Link to the past Link got some personality.

You should read their mangas.

>>91705986

>Okay, they were taking the piss, right?

Kojima's career is a delicate balance of being equal parts pretentious lunatic who considers himself the god of storytelling and gigantic goofball troll who loves having a laugh.

>>91705986
>>91706054
don't forget Solidus Snake

Gas Snake when?

>>91705850
Don't forget those two Captain Americas both named William.

>>91705857
Because obviously that's the only alternative to an art style that looks like it was drawn by a kindergartner.

>>91704237
This, and the fact that Comic Book legacies have an unfortunate tendency to try and one up or otherwise shit on the predecessor.

>>91706153
>Because obviously that's the only alternative to an art style that looks like it was drawn by a kindergartner.

Prefer that style, It is more timeless than a "How much realistic/mature can i get" shit.

>>91705959
I never played 4 but I have seen the cutscenes and talked about it with people who did play. I'm mostly talking about Revengeance, which was the sequel to 4, where cyborg Raiden first appeared, and was popular with fans to the point where he got his own spin off. MGS 2 Raiden wasn't popular and they had to go back to a Snake that looked like Solid, Big Boss, as a result.

Also yes, the official story is that Cranky was the DK from the arcade and he had Jr. And since the current DK is Cranky's Grandson, that means either the DKC DK was either Jr's son or Jr himself and the current one showed up in 64 or Jungle beat

>>91704214
Legacies when done right are awesome. Look at Wally West or Kyle Rayner. They flurished after taking over their respective mantles. The transition felt natural, organic. Hell my favorite period of Batman is when Dick was under the cowl. If you do it right then they're awesome.

Do it wrong, and you have current Marvel. Some of their legacy attempts work. Falcon Cap was fine because it was a logical direction that Cap's partner would take. I even don't mind Miles and Peter co-existing. But when to force it with Fem Thor and others, making changes for the sake of changes, that's when they start to suck. It isn't natural and turns people off.

>>91706489
Ah... good old Dickbats. We hardly knew ye.

>>91704293
>Were you around when Windwaker came out? It was literally NOT MUH ZELDA AND LINK over and over and over again.

God I remember hearing that for years

>>91705802
>meme
Wasn't it outright stated by the creator that he designed Link so that the player could easily project themselves onto him?

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>>91705832
>shitty
Nigger fuck you Wind Waker is stylish and charming as fuck.

>>91704214
Looks like Link finally got sick of the durability system

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>>91705832
>deliberately-shitty

Pack your bags and get the fuck out, faggot

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>>91704214
Because Zelda games acknowledge the passing of time, aka that the Status Quo doesn't dominate the narrative.

I'd much prefer to see a Gotham where Bruce ages in real time, Gordon eventually retires and is succeeded by Ellen Yindel/Yin (and later by Barbara farther in the future), and people move on with their lives.

I'd like to see Peter Parker grow up and run Parker Industries full time, while eventually be succeeded by Miles Morales. Not gave him be killed off, turned evil, or kidnapped in another dimension until his inevitable return-----just leaving down the mantle.

My problem with Marvel is that instead of moving in the direction of, for example, Marvel 2099, they're perpetually stuck in the present and refuse to age the characters with the passing of time.

>>91708164
Yeah and he hasn't been involved since 1998

>>91704431
Don't get me started on Demise's bullshit.

>>91704293
>Skyward Sword had similar issues with "fans".
Skyward Sword was plain old shitty, anon. I've gobbled up every Zelda that came before it, even Twilight Princess but SS was too much of a fucking disappointment, I'm glad it was Aounuma's wake up call.

>>91704214
>Why are so many people angry when someone new comes along and takes up an older heroes name and costume?
Because 9 times out of 10 that character is an obvious gimmick with no real substance and is shittily written. Plus it's insulting to have a character you like screwed over for the sake of a publicity stunt. Well handled legacies are fine, and even have fans. Kamala, Robbie, Miguel, Mayday, Dickbats, the Robins, Beta Ray Bill, and yes fuck you /co/, Sam. All decent or even good legacies. It's easy to not to notice them though when you have anons loudly shitting on Miles or Whor or whoever.

>>91704214
Those game series have only lasted a few decades. The comics have run on about three times as long.
Also how do you not remember people freaking out over Raiden and Toon Link

>>91704579
Rip off? Breath of the Wild perfected the sandbox aspects of Morrowind. BotW is the ideal every TES game has been trying to reach but without good quests or a main story or balance.

>>91709547
I don't know if I'd call Sam good. He's not bad, but he never really came around to good either.

At the very least, I think we can agree that he came from the very, very bad place that is Loeb's eternally grief-stricken mind.

>>91708997
do get started.

>>91704214
>being this stupid.
Anyone that's answer is not "all medias get angry at this shit including games" are underage kiddies.

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>>91704214
>Why are Legacies such a big deal and controversial in Comics, while other forms of media
stop reading right there, you are a huge fucking idiot and tool. That or you are baiting to see how stupid /co/ is with other media. People lost their shit over a female Starbuck, over a Blonde haired Jae Bond, over Raiden being the protag of MGS2, over Star Wars new Jedi Order novels basically shitting on the old cast to roll out the new. Star Wars Episode 7 cast. It's a big fucking deal everywhere and to say otherwise shows how very limited your mind is on exposure to the medium.

Also many times we have had legacy characters that happen in comics people were fine with.

and Zelda? Really? That's your go to example? You better be some young college hipster because anything over 23 and thinking like this is just sad

>>91704701
>>91704753
Carmack is more relevant than any other story obsessed hack in the industry. Stay mad that "washed up Carmack" is swimming in his facebook billions.

>>91705340
All wrong.

>>91705850
>Mantles do happen in comics, they just never stick because everyone wants to go back to the original one because that's the one they grew up with.
QFT

In my case, I was a 90's kid. I read my 1st comic in 1993 when I was 5 and was used to Eric Masterson as Thunderstrike, Pym as the Scientific Adventurer, Monica Rambeau, Lang as Ant-Man during that time-period.

But the status quo nature of the Big 2 demand that changes aren't permanent and continuity is something to be cherry-picked. Now I understand that new writers should be allowed to have their say, but giving the finger to long-time readers about characterization and progression that certain characters (Hank Pym most of all) getting retconned is a slap in the face.

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>>91704214
>Why are Legacies such a big deal and controversial in Comics, while other forms of media like Games
Using your own fucking example of Link, have you been asleep every time they try to make even a simple design change to him and the shitstorms begin? Fuck off with this shit.

>>91710333
>dozens on dozens of dungeons that are just "you enter and you get the prize"
>entering many dungeons ahead of time ruin quests to where when you talk to the person it's just completed.
>Many dungeons are 2 minute challenges that use the motion control gimmick and are over.

You can love it warts and all but you are Todd level lying if you really thing it "perfected the sandbox" it really didn't and shows you likely have little exposure to the medium. That or you just love sucking Link's dick.

>>91704293
people liked windwaker immediately after it came out.
skyward sword is completely different and has been universely hated for it's entire existance and will always be.

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>>91710549
>people liked windwaker immediately after it came out.

No. Much like Kyle Rayner it took time for the fans to warm up and just like Kyle Rayner it was more that the new generation launch on to the game. I'm 34 and was just entering college when that shit hit the fan. Both online and locally most old fans were extremely pissed and unwelcoming of the changes.

>>91710500
No one complained about the blue tunic in this game. Plus you can just dye the regular tunic green if you wanted to.

>>91710688
>No one complained about the blue tunic
When it was announced? Yes, yes they fucking did.

>>91710688
They absolutely bitched about it. Don't forget the rumors about making Link female and that particular shitstorm.

It's pretty telling when even Miss Marvel's writer says "Maybe the problem is you're shitting all over the predecessor too much".

Replacing Legacy characters or passing on mantles run into two particular problems that end up in resetting back to the status quo:

1. Poor execution. Whether it's simply bad design, bad art, bad game, bad movie, shit cast, poor writing, etc These things can break any attempt at re-imagining a character or "passing the torch."

2. Not giving it a chance. And I don't mean the fans. I mean the executives. They hear/read the rumbling of discontent by fans because they were moving in another direction and they panic. You gotta commit to the change if you feel it's being executed well. Fans will come around unless of course you run into reason #1.

because the people who read big 2 comics are even more underage (mentally) than people who play video games

>>91704214
1. They are all actually good.
2. No specific sjw agenda
3. ?
4. Nigga link anytime if he's not a retarded character like 99.999% of the time.

>>91710688
>Plus you can just dye the regular tunic green if you wanted to
Hey I like the Hylian tunic but let's not pretend it's an acceptable stand-in for the classic green tunic. It has way too many odds and ends all over it to capture that simple, iconic look.

>>91710981
>no specific sjw agenda
lmao you mean like the time people so graciously accepted new robins, new flashes, and new GLs?

>>91711007
I'm not like those faggots.

>>91705832

Go home, Zack Snyder.

>>91705349
Don't forget that you had to play an entire level with him running around naked. It's dumb that it rubbed people the wrong way (because American puritanism always focuses on the dumbest things), but that doesn't change that that's what happened.

>>91710549
>people liked windwaker immediately after it came out

You must not have been born when it came out then. People HATED that game. They just accepted and loved it after time went on.

>>91711171
They hated the beta screenshots, but they started to like it when they actually played it.

>>91710920
I have this thought, too. Comics are treated as emotional comfort food way more than games are. There is also something baked into the medium, though.

I was listening to an interview with Leonard Nemoy, about his role in Star Trek. He said that in the original series, the writers and directors just made up stuff, on the fly, to keep the episodes interesting. they would invent new Macguffins to get away from writing themselves into a corner.

when they came back to do the movies, however, fans had become obsessed with the show and wrote up all these little rules and technologies to explain every little 5 second gag or throw-away reference. Suddenly, the writers were penned in by their own fans.

Comics is like that. Video games toss out everything with each release, while comics keep the same continuity for decades. I think this draws the obsessive nutjobs. the ones who want decades of details to obsess over. Game companies don't care about that shit. Hideo Kojima, in fact, goes out of his way to shit on obsessive fans in the actual games! When people freaked out over MGS3 not having the original Solid Snake, Kojima made him old and decrepit in MGS4, just to shut people up.

which gets back to another fact about insane comic fans: their fanaticism is actually rewarded by publishers. bitch hard enough about a change, and somebody will cave in and change it back. fave character get killed off? don't worry, he will get a clone/alternate universe double/wake up from a coma/whatever

>>91710674
>Both online and locally
You mean only online and in places not unlike here. Looking back at older magazines the reception was fairly positive.

>>91710549
>>91711171
>>91711205
Not sure what the point in this is. OPs argument is people don't get mad in other medias over legacy changes when the fact is yes they do. This thread has gone way longer then it should have and looking at the posters count I'm thinking OP is just pleading for (You)s

>>91711317
>OPs argument is people don't get mad in other medias over legacy changes when the fact is yes they do
To make a long explanation short it's because in comics they more often than not write the character as the mantle they're taking rather than a character taking the mantle.

Now back to Zelda.

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>>91711287
>Looking back at older magazines the reception was fairly positive.
Do you really want to be that retarded here? Do you really want to drag in press releases and news groups? Because if you pull that shit most media becomes a mess to follow on what people thought of it. Even Reggie admits there was a huge controversy back in the day. Stop acting like we are attacking your lover and understand we are talking about how fucking retarded OP is.

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>>91711419
That's not the case at all. All media becomes an eye of scrutiny based on what you grew up with. This is nothing new.

>>91711205

They hated the art style before, during, and after its release. It's just that gameplay won people over and those that were complaining went away. If the game was bad, there'd be a Windwaker Bashing General #234789 at this point.

>>91705340
BotW!Link tries to keep up a tough front in universe. And is probably a fish fucker

>>91711492
This. and the same goes with successful legacy heroes in comics. OP just stupidly ignores the dozens of dozens of torch passes in the industry and just focuses on what is failing now rather than understand that (most) people will always forgive a change of pace if the quality of it is good.

>>91710391
those examples are pretty small compared to the thunderous shit typhoon that followed femThor. I suspect that shit heads who still refer to the character as "Whor" are misogynists first, and comics originalists second, but that doesn't explain people who lose their minds when Superman gets a new costume.

comic book fans just hate change. when Hollywood decrees that a character will change, that is all there is to it. movies (and games) need hundreds of millions of dollars in sales to sustain themselves. "Fuck the hardcore fans" is a law of survival, at that level. And it works, too.

Bayonetta 2 had a complete costume change, and it was a success. DMC was a complete reboot. Hardcore fans hated it, until they played it. Final Fantasy used to never revisit old characters. all the original FF games have sold well. all the spinoffs and derivatives have sold less on each iteration.

>>91711477
You realise this has nothing to do with what we grew up with and more the quality of the writing, yes?
There are good and bad cases all throughout comics history but as it stands they're mostly of the bad variety.

>>91706013
Same with Babs as Oracle. If anything making her Batgirl again harmed her character more than anything else. Especially since it was Cass that carried an Batgirl ongoing for years and was a diverse character to boot.

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>>91711419
>he thinks there is a difference.
You're OP just trying to keep your thread alive aren't you?

>>91711554
>until they played it.
Everyone still hates it because it fucked up the DMC gameplay and trivialized alternative combos and racking up points.

>>91708164
That's why he was called Link. He's the link between the game and the player.

>>91704431
I'm still mad that not only did they feel it necessary to make a game set before OoT, but that said game sucked so much as well with stupid new lore

its the only 3D Zelda game that I'd say isn't great, or even memorable

>>91711554
>those examples are pretty small compared to the thunderous shit typhoon that followed femThor
femThor got less press coverage and media attention then gay Green Lantern. Here on /co/? yeah, people were filling their britches but then we could wander over to /v/ where something as simple as changing a character's basic appearance will lead to a shitstorm that could last the weekend.
Honestly you sound like you get all your /co/ news from here and all your /v/ news from some major news outlet to even draw such a conclusion.

>>91711555
I was in reference to the knee jerk reaction people get to change of legacy characters.

>>91711739
That's the thing, there wouldn't be a problem if they ease into it and throw in a little development.

>>91704281
Off the top of my head I think one of the only character who's been a legacy character who has had the old users of the name stay dead (for the most part) is Dr. Fate. And the Phantom.

>>91708816
We have a ton of stories like that, all of them AU's or What If's admittedly, but they exist. Shit, Batman Beyond was nothing BUT this. Old Man Logan, Logan, the Ultimate Universe, they happen all the time across multiple media platforms, you have your fill and then some.

The problem is you're saying "I want this to exist EVERYWHERE, have no stories with Bruce in the present where he doesn't grow old or pass on the mantle. I want zero series where marvel/DC tells stories with these characters and keeps them." The thing is, the stories you want exist, but the thing is they end.

That's the downside to having 'progression of time' be an absolute, eventually they just plain end. That's it, it's over, the guys aged up and Kingdom Come came and went or it went bad or whatever. Batman beat the Mutants and then his stories got super fucking weird or he just retired and now Damien is Batman. Those series are short because that's how they're designed, to progress to a point and then after the major parts happen, people just stop reading. Why would they keep going on? Bruce is done. Logan restarts the world. Things happened and now they're over.

The inherent flaw in your desires is that they hinge entirely on stores that will cease, and the only downside to any of it is someone more successful said "No thanks." You want to remove variety because it is more successful, despite having a popular television show Terry is never going to have sales like Bruce is. The only way to win is to remove the options.

Here's a hint, marvel tried that recently.

Hasn't been working out so well.

>>91711859
The Question?

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>>91711800
Not always true. No one should have even flinched at Sam taking the title Captain America, they spent a good amount grooming that idea before it happen. Compared strangely to Bucky who basically had no interest in the title but magically took it when Cap was dead for that short spell. But people called foul on Sam while Bucky just got a free pass.
I don't even think it's a race or SJW thing. Honestly I think it just shows a lot of people in general don't read comics and just assume a old side kick that hasn't been all that morally good for the last 2 decades is a better pick than someone who has been a good friend and follower of the heroes code for 3+ decades.

>>91711709
>femThor got less press coverage and media attention then gay Green Lantern.

Name one show with higher ratings than The View that even mentioned that shit.

>>91712011
A lot of people bitched about Sam becoming Cap because Sam spend decades to build the Falcon image while Bucky, when he took over as Cap, wasn't back from the dead that long compared to Sam being the Falcon.

>>91712018
>a show that focuses on women praises new femthor
See I get that wasn't the core topic you two were talking about but this just destroys the argument that the controversy was anywhere outside of /co/

>>91712062
So then why was Dick Batman Ok? He spent decades being Nightwing (and before that Robin) yet even here many accepted him.

See what I am getting at here and the stupid of it all?

>>91712011
>Bucky

Didn't like the Winter Solider persona and wanted to actually inspire people, and they made it very clear Cap was coming back, nobody even pretended this was permanant. It was a fantastic way to showcase Bucky as a character while Cap's story was in the middle of another arc.

>Sam

Established hero with his own legacy, his own persona, his own accomplishments he could be proud of, his own supporting cast and allies and reasoning to be who he was and the hero he had become. So fuck that, it's obvious that his accomplishments don't mean shit because he's not using the popular characters name. That's right, all that shit? Who gives a fuck, we know Captain America is a brand that actually means something, unlike that dull ass "Falcon" persona. You see anyone care about THE FALCON? Fuck that, we need to make him POPULAR!

And how do you do that? Kill off the popular guy again and reality warp the world so he's a nazi.

Yeah, not exactly 1-1.

>>91712141
Anon's point was more of how people look at the superficial side of things. As already pointed out established heroes took over other identities with little blow back.

>>91712080
Sure it does! If you're moving the goalposts of "Media Attention" so far that they're currently being humped by penguins.

Or instead it showcases that, you know, Femthor got way more media talking about it and making a big deal out of it than /co/ ever could, and makes you look like a dumbass for bringing up the gay green lantern thing that got nothing.

>>91710477

Then prove me wrong, you fucking faggot.

>>91712141
>Cap was coming back, nobody even pretended this was permanent.
and people stupidly think Sam is because?
Also that second half is a bunch of conjecture, more so since the MCU his demand has grown.

>>91711588
I'll never understand how DC could simply ignore how good Cass sold and shafted her so hard when it was proven that she racked in the bucks.

>>91710549
>skyward sword is completely different and has been universely hated for it's entire existance and will always be.

It is okay, it is not the best one.

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>>91712185
So then it's in agreement that the thunderous shit typhoon" of femThor is just as much a bullshit made up?

>>91712259
Well I sure as fuck gonna pretend that Skyward Sword doesn't exist.

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>>91712123
because he was white.

>>91712278

Your opinions, I enjoy the gameplay and story.

>>91712222
>and people stupidly think Sam is because?

Because they're in too deep with the politics of it now. They turned Sam-Cap into a political statement and have been parading about how big a deal it is too much. They doubled down on the 'progressive' part of it so much that if they finally said "You know what? Fuck it, Sam go back to being Falcon." the blowback would be huge.

I want you to imagine what the very areas that marvel has been pushing their message to recently heard that "The black guy is no longer representing america".

>>91712333
>Because they're in too deep with the politics of it now.
politics change like the weather. There was a time the dems hated immigrants. Half the gay issue drama we have had in the last 3 decades was thanks to things sign by the Clinton's. give it time, it will go back to normal, you'll get your old Falcon back and Steve will stop loving Nazis.

>>91704214
Characters don't really matter in games.
You can complain about a story in a game or a design in a game but TUE GAME ITSELF is always the most important.

When there is a character in a game usually they are simply an object.
An object with an appearance or purpose or even personality, maybe, but they're just an object.
Link is the main character, but more importantly he's the character you play. So even in a linear story driven game like Ocarina of Time, Link can still be turned into the guy who backflipped the whole game and almost never used his items as a challenge.
The big legacy character Link becomes the object you pilot, all important NPC Zelda becomes the object you get information from, infamous Ganon becomes the object you stop to win the game.
The story could be rewritten, and the characters redrawn, and you'd still have a videogame. Probably still even a Zelda game.

Comics are just a story.
They are drawings on paper that are ONLY there to tell you a story. For comics story is the first part of it. Visuals obviously also a high priority but story first.

It doesn't make sense to compare videogame characters and how they are to comicbook characters. Cause for videogames, game is first. And for comics story is first.
>>91711859

>>91712419
But I don't want Steve to stop loving Zemo!

>>91712123
>So then why was Dick Batman Ok?

They showed the image immediately after Batman's "Death" that said "No no! He's alive! He's super alive! Don't worry, he's coming back!" Then hinted Pirate Batman and Caveman Batman and all sorts of other things while hyping up for "Battle for the Cowl", which was an all out Batman war. So pretty much they said "Don't worry, we're not taking away your favorite character, he's going to go on a badass adventure through time. You guys ready for some motherfucking Noir Batman!? But since it wouldn't make sense for him to be there NOW, hows about we do a storyline of Dick taking over the mantle?"

Essentially, they turned a fakeout death into a whole thing and since people knew they'd still be getting the batman they loved and on a whole new adventure, they were more open to accepting Dick taking over for a bit. They knew it wasn't permanent, they knew Bruce was coming back, and it's not like they had THEIR Batman taken away, he was doing stuff. Nightwing fans would get their character back after he had an arc where he dressed up different but acted exactly the same, Batman fans got their cool adventures, no forced political messages to derail the enjoyment and escapism, what was there to complain about?

See what we're getting at with the stupid of the execution?

>>91712460
It's gonna happen because you actually like it. The moment you enjoy the change they want nothing to do with it.

>>91704214
This really bothers me too. I want to see Dick live out his life as Batman and pass the mantle to Damian and etc I want actual progression (to a comics degree)

>>91712505
But they hinted the same with old Cap. Hell Cap was alive and well when the change happen, no one should have even had a itchy fanny from that.

Hating the message I get but people were checking out before the first issue even drop. [much like Zelda fans work/spoiler]

>>91704706
We desperately need more Capcom Zelda.

>>91712564
Because Marvel, by the time they made Sam Cap, was already pretty deep inside the SJW swamp and it was obvious they were going to push agenda shit. And lo' and behold one of the first big things to come out of the whole thing was him making out with a hot, white, blonde chick. That shit was transparent from the very beginning.
Dick on the other hand, well, when was the last time Dick went on the record of telling peole he's Romani for example?
Somehow even when they tried to pander to SJW too they still made it way less on the nose than Marvel did.

>>91712689
>was already pretty deep inside the SJW swamp
and now they are admitted they are draining it. Likely after Legacy I expect a big shift where they put everything back to how it was as a big event.
I think Marvel is just playing the New coke long con and will be on top in a huge way when they set everything back to the "good old days"

>>91712740
If Venom's sales are any indication it's going to work in a big way because that book has been a pile of shit but keeps selling good numbers sense everyone reading knows Eddie Brock was coming back.

>>91712740
I don't believe them. They will MAYBE drain some, but shit like Miles being pushed as the new hot thing is going to stay because he's Bendis' pet.
If anything I'm sure they will cut down on female main characters because they are shit at interpreting things, so expect Silk, Spider-Gwen and America to vanish into obscurity.
Maybe Jess too (but that's probably a good thing after Hopeless' run). And retarded how they are they are most likely axing Laura too and eventually put her into another X-Men book where no one will have an idea what to do with her.

>>91711992
Agree to disagree, but I get your argument.

I just dislike the way comics the static nature of major comics nullifies any lasting impact in the series, and that the only popular way to move further back/forward in the timeline is with AUs or what/ifs.

Civil War (comics) is a great example, when it was going on it felt like the status quo was going to get shifted forever, for better or worse, but skip forward a few years and the gravitas and impact of that story line has been either reconnected or forgotten. It's a footnote in history compared to the Inhumans v X-men story lines. Or Hydra Cap: as scandalous as the reveal may be it ultimately doesn't matter because Captain America will inevitably be reset to his heroic self at some point in the near future, so making the twist in the first place doesn't leave that much of an impact.

It just sucks that you have characters like Ben Riley who absolutely had the potential to be great legacy characters, who arguably got the worst fate when someone decided to make Peter Spiderman again.

>>91712564
>But they hinted the same with old Cap. Hell Cap was alive and well when the change happen, no one should have even had a itchy fanny from that.

Here's the thing you probably forgot, since it was years ago, but Sam being cap news was released a DAY, one day, after Femthor's announcement. Both times, they did not say that your favorite character would be having their own fun and missions, but that these new ones were THE Captain America and Thor. Put that in perspective with Battle for the Cowl.

>Bruce is going through time and being the Batman of every era, who know where that's ending up!
>WHO WILL BE THE NEXT BATMAN!?

Now that's an event! Who's going to pick up the mantle? Which of the robins truly deserves the cowl? What will this mean for Gotham and the characters you love? And you never have to worry that this is going to change the character for an agenda.

Then in 2014, amidst all the tension and Ferguson and all that utter load of horse shit pouring down, in Marvel you get your favorite character taken away and NOT going on their own adventures where they're still them, but instead shown "These new ones are your characters now." Of course fans would be disappointed, look at how each one went out.

>Thor just up and lost his power after a fucking whisper and Jane just gets the hammer.
>Steve gets his super solider serum drained and hinders his ability to be Captain America.

>Batman goes ALL FUCKING OUT on Darksied, breaks his rule against using guns in order to separate him and free Dan Turpin and allow Superman to eventually finish him off, and through this heroic act that saves the multiverse he's going through time!

One of these is just a wee bit more exciting than the others.

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>>91704293

>>91704214
Aren't a bunch of people complaining because they want Link to have a vagina option instead of accepting Linkle?

>>91704706
>>91712572
Recently played the minish cap. It's really good

>>91704676
>Lots of people hated the Arbiter parts of Halo 2
Which is dumb, since he was way more interesting than the Chief.

>>91711588
Agreed.

While it was shitty that the way Babs ended up crippled was as a throw-away character who didn't even matter to the story in question, becoming Oracle afterward was the best thing that ever happened to her.

I don't mind Babs getting back the use of her legs, but abandoning the whole Oracle thing (where she was basically the brains of the entire DC superhero community) to merely be Batgirl again was a giant step backward. Babs had outgrown being Batgirl.

And prior to that, Cass had taken the Batgirl identity and made it her own before having it stripped away just because fucking Didio hated her.

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>>91704293
>it's finally what people have wanted since OoT.

>>91704391
In both of those vidya examples, those are the same exact people with no legacy concept at play. That's why people got pissed.

>>91711859
Captain Marvel.

>>91704214
Gamers sperg about gameplay changes, not story.

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>>91704214
>caring about the narrative of a glorified toy

>>91717779
It's like putting toppings/condiments on a burger. Not needed, but can make the burger taste better/more filling. Granted, a shitty burger is still a shitty burger regardless of how much you drown it in sauces.

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>>91713333
>DONTU
>WHATTU
>SKYWARDU
>SWORTU
Immersion ruined.

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>>91715288
I agree. I honestly love the Chief, but Arbiter's my favorite character in the entire Halo franchise

>>91717779
>anon said on a board dedicated to a bunch of series that were storybook marketing for toys

>>91706176
Honestly, this.
Just look at Far Cry.
No one minds Marty and Jason because they show why he's a badass (or rather let the player do that, but that's beside the point). No one at any point is shitting on Jack Carver or trying to tell us LOOK AT THEM THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER THAN JACK.

>>91718116
Nobody cares about Far Cry protagonists to begin with.

>>91704293
I will always consider Skyward Sword a bad game. I hated it after I finished it and I still hate it now.

The few good moments don't make up for the rest of the game.

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>>91705832
>hating on a cartoony art style
>on a comics and cartoons board

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>>91704214
Counterpoint.

>>91718016
Are you thinking of /m/ or something?

>>91718637
>take every opportunity to shit on the fans of the original series thus cutting off a giant chunk of potential buyers
>make the character look like you to the point when you got a haircut the main character suddenly got changed to have the same look too
>get offered to be taught how to use the MTframework engine and thus getting an English version of that engine for everyone else to use but turn down the offer to use your own shitty engine
>make a piss easy watered down version of past games
>make a really generic story and unlikable characters with weak/forgettable character designs
>Capcom keeps cutting down expected sale numbers every time they talk about the game
>Every past DMC game in the series sold more than DmC
>gets outsold by the HD collection which was sold around the same time
>have only made phone games afterwards since
remember folks, never talk shit unless you can actually back it up

>>91704514
>Nobody cares about Link or Doomguy
You take that back I love them both

>>91705244
>You may as well pore over the lore of the Doom franchise
Y-yeah, imagine that...

>>91704214
>Zelda 1 Link
>passing the Master Sword

Sasuga, Aonuma-san.

>>91719496
That's LTTP Link. You can tell because Zelda I Link is tall and /fit/.

>>91718736
No in defense, the fans were sending death threats as soon as the game was announced.

>>91711657
Literally false, he's named Link because originally the game was going to be about traveling between the Past and the Future to collect Computer Chips and he was the "link" between the two time periods.

>>91722056
I think it's kind of neat they are drawing from the old concept with all the magitek in Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild.

I like how Megaman and JoJo do it where each character has a different story, themes, and overall differentiates themselves while still feeling Megaman or JoJo.

Cape comics usually screw legacy up because it's inorganic, and doesn't really change anything. It's ____ but ____! Boring attempt for attention. That's why all these minority characters disinterest people. There isn't any boldness. They're still doing the same stories as before with the same beats.

DC was much better at legacy because they usually accompany it with change deeper than the just the skin. Wally West, Tim Drake Robin, Nightwing, Infinity Inc, Johns JSA, etc all took the title in new directions that shaped it permanently. It wasn't "Barry Allen but young".