Thunderbolts #12

>>91668587
You should be more careful, then.

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>>91668587

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>>91668597

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>>91668618

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>>91668631

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>>91668652

Jolt is too pure.

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>>91668668

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>>91668696

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>>91668703

I'm not certain what's worse, the art or writing

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>>91668720

>>91668731
So long Man-Killer!

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>>91668731

>>91668728
Just wait till the page with Atlas joining with Zemo.

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>>91668746

Why is this shit allowed to live so long with shit sales?

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>>91668765

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>>91668792

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>>91668817

>>91668786
Ties in with an event.

>>91668668
>Children are such a nuisance
Remember that time Zemo married a woman that claimed to be his father's reincarnation and they adopted and brainwashed a bunch of kids into being Nazis and dressing up like him?

>>91668746
>Atlas, you are my minion now.
>Okay.

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>>91668843

>>91668696
>Who should I help, my abusive boyfriend or Bucky?

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>>91668877

>>91668731
RIP Man-Killer, the most radical feminist of all

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>>91668901

>>91668728
The writing. The art is just on the level the writing deserves.

>>91668731
Atlas and Man-Killer were friends once, right?

>>91668901
Good riddance. Though Zemo killing Bucky in the Hydra Cap issue today was even better.

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>>91668920
Here it is, the apex of shitty writing in this title.

>>91668920
Poor Fixer, forever stuck in an abusive relationship

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>>91668946

>>91668946
He better be faking it and he's just spying on Zemo and the Masters waiting to turn on them, because it's the only thing that would make sense.

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>>91668964
12 issues to build up an event and most of the characters will never appear in it more than a cameo.

>>91668946
Doesn't seem that out of character. He thinks he's the only one left, and he usually gives up easily if nobody is there to support him.

>>91668946
The part that gets me is that isn't hard to write Erik joining up with Zemo in-character at all. Just have Zemo guilt trip him about Pleasant Hill, throw in Abe being a warden there and Bucky keeping it from them and it's done. Zub himself constantly referenced Abe being a warden there.

>>91668941
WAIT,WHAT?

>>91668901
F

>>91668978
What a lame ending.

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>>91668978
Fuck you Zub, and fuck the editor.

>>91668986
Zemo kills Bucky by recreating the rocket incident in Cap #16. Death count of Secret Empire so far: Bucky, Avril Kincaid, Maria Hill.

>>91668978
THAT'S ALL FOLKS

>>91669013
FUCK YOU ANON. SPOILER THAT SHIT.

>>91668978
Is it just bad writing or is ghost always like this?

>>91668901
>>91668978
Abe better be dead, nothing worse than a fakeout.

Congratulations to Marvel to for publishing a Thunderbolts run worse than Diggle's.

>>91669134
Diggle's run wasn't bad at all. In fact, he has some pretty memorable issues.

>>91669013
>Maria Hill.
How did she get offed?

>>91668765
Oh yeah Ghost.

>>91669147
Hydra goons gunning her down.

>>91668920
I feel soory for Ghost.

>>91669255
Oh, nvm.

>>91668978
Was this cancelled or was it always supposed to end like this?

>>91669289
Going by the ending and Zub talking about roster changes in earlier letter sections it was probably gonna continue with Ghost/Mel/Jolt and whoever they recruit with Mel as leader, but instead got cancelled.

>>91669143
Too edgy for me. My favorite part of that era was when Parker had that group trounced during Siege.

>>91669289
>>91669309
iirc it is taking a break and coming back post secret empire

>>91669345
Please tell me Zub there will be a different creative team.

>>91668983
But Zemo did guilt trip him, how did you miss that?

>>91669362
There is no telling and it could still be cancelled
Zub himself announced the break
https://twitter.com/JimZub/status/839192771915296768

>>91669366
About the mobile phone, but not about the fact that Zemo had a hand in freeing him from Pleasant Hill.

>>91669381
So Marvel's blaming the low sales on the artist and not the writer huh

>>91669427
To be fair, the artist really is terrible.

>>91669427
The book did get a noticeable sales bump digitally when Anka was doing the cover and Izaakse the interiors.

If Kobik is dead, who can fix Cap Hydra?

>>91669254
Hill's in Bendis' Jessica Jones though, with injuries, so either him and Spencer aren't communicating or that's who she got shot by.

>>91669530
Zemo and the Bolts are collecting her fragments in Secret Empire/Captain America and Norbert is working in fixing her.

>>91668696
>Fixer seriously asking who he should help here
Are you shitting me right now. You have done nothing to justify this characterization in your entire fucking run.

>>91668940
Yeah, they used to drink at a bar together where she worked.

>>91668901
>Wanted everyone to be happy
>Bucky is captured/dead
>Red Skull is dead
>Steve in his right mind would be disgusted with what he's done

Really screwed the pooch on that one Kobik. Who besides Zemo came out of this remotely happy?

>>91669035
the only time ghost has had a proper personality was in Parkerbolts where he was a DCU Question style 'paranoid but always right'

this weird dataphage pedo vibe thing is entirely new

>>91668765
You know Songbird is one of the characters who's unquestionably come a long fucking way from her origins and it's mostly stuck, to the extent that sad moments about Angar now often feel forced.

>>91668817
>I'm not doing that Graviton shit again

So what's the final verdict?

Is it worse or better than Rulkbolts and Fightbolts?

>>91668920
You think Zemo would know better then to bring Karla on a quest for reality bending power

>>91669013
Wait, Avril's dead? Who's got the bands? Wendell came back from the dead like four times.

>>91668920
>WHERE THE FUCK IS IT?!
Is Zemo supposed to be saying this?

>>91669760
He was kinda filthy and creepy in Parkerbolts.

>>91669771
It's still better than Fightbolts IMO. Not better than anything else.

>>91669804
That's supposed to be Zemo saying it, yes. I think Zub actually writes a worse Zemo than Brubaker or Remender.

>>91669849
It's firmly in Storytime of Pain territory now in any case.

>>91669903
It's so OOC I was wondering if I'd just got the speech bubbles wrong. Like maybe it would be Moonstone off-panel?

>>91669791
>>91669013
>implying any superhero will get killed by getting eaten alive by a giant creature

>>91669771
Zubolts is the bottom of the barrel, no contest. If only for how pointless and insulting it is. At least in other bad runs, the title characters aren't reduced to supporting characters in their own book.

>>91670022
I'm just kinda, more interested in a Quasar comic once you tell me Quasar is dead. That's when the fun really starts in the Gruenwald run.

Is Thunderbolts ever good when it's not about Songbird and Moonstone bitching at eachother?

>>91670137
Why yes, there was a run where Moonstone spent all of it in a coma while being a puppet to Zemo.

>>91669593
Yeah it's a Bolivian Army Ending for her, seemingly about to go down with guns blazing.

She'll be back, probably to deliver crucial info then get her job back.

>>91668946
No Erik, you moved past this. You don't have to be Zemos bitch boy anymore.

>>91668703
GOD that M.A.C.H armor is hideous

>>91670838
Erik is weak. WEAK.

>>91668957
there's an issue of She-hulk where Fixer does try to sue Zemo for his abusive relationship. Can't find the scans tho, kind of mad.

>>91668978
I like this Ghost guy.

>>91669254
real or lmd?

>>91671197
It was in Superior Foes of Spider-man. They go to the new Beetle so Fixer can get a cut of the profits that Zemo makes since he technically gave him a new body.

>>91668696
>ah--*
Is he getting punched?

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>>91671197
>>91671359
I got you covered

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>>91671459
>>91671359
>>91671197

>>91671459
Damn, Zemo looks good as a pimp.

>>91671582
Who doesn't

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>>91671780
Most people.

>>91668978
this was pretty lame, like they were not even trying.

>>91671459
>>91671481
thank you. Funny thing is you can apply this to Zemo now during Secret Empire

>>91671459
>>91671481
>single female lawyer
>kind of an asshole
>wants to do the costume thing
So, the new Beetle is an evil alt-company Manhunter? I can dig it.

>>91668731
>Man-Killer was a feminist

HAHAHAHAHA didn't know that shit, it's pretty funny actually.

>>91668901
good riddance Kobik you would not be missed.

>>91672908
She wasn't a feminist, she just hated men. There's a difference.

>>91673180
Oh sorry I read her wiki and says she was a militant feminist.

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>>91673180

>>91668703
Why the fuck is the Wrecking Crew like 9 feet tall?

>>91668978
Maybe next time, Thunderbolts will get someone who can actually fucking draw

>>91669000
This got five more issues than Novas, and will probably start up again after Secret Empire.

Marvel editorial/corporate needs to be gutted. They are doing everything wrong.

>>91669013
>Avril Kincaid,

Well, that was worth depowering Wendell for.

>>91674625
It's unlikely she'll be dead for real IMO. Also shame on you for not appreciating the Wendell training arc that, uh, Marvel never really got around to writing. For some reason Cap was mainly the one telling her what to do? Weird situation, that could have been really neat.

>>91674675
>Also shame on you for not appreciating the Wendell training arc that, uh, Marvel never really got around to writing.

See THAT is something I'd be down for. Wendell going Eon on her.

But instead, she appeared in like three issue of Captain Hydra, doing nothing.

>>91669740
>implying anyone other than Zemo deserves to be happy

>>91674743
Yeah, I'm basically in the same boat. It feels like Wendell would be quite patchy as a mentor and Avril in some ways - well, same background, similar event but not necessarily the same personality and that's important to the bands. So that seems like it could have been a good comic or subplot. But as you say she's been more a plot device and less a character.

>>91668901
Thank fucking god! Rest in hell, Kobik. You bitch

To the front page with you

>>91668720
Oh god, Melissa in that second panel.

>>91677001
Literally isosceles angles glued together

>>91677357
Looks like she also had her leg amputated from the shin down.

>>91677357
Truly the Picasso of our time

>>91668731

Wait so is Man-Killer dead?

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>>91668765
>>91668978
It's good to see ghost again.

>>91678523
Yes.

F

>>91669000

Fuck this comic.

>>91671481
I mean. He's got a point.

>>91679535
Who, Fixer or Zemo?

>>91679615
whyy not both?

>>91668901
You don't deserve the F you cunt

>>91668597
I miss when she had hair

>>91674390
They're big guys

>>91678572
That's one girly figure

>>91683773
More of a crack-head figure. You know as you are able to see his ribs.

>>91683655
4 u

>>91669829
That's why we love him

>>91669013
>Maria Hill
God fucking damnit. Marvel just lost one of its major sources of sex appeal.

>>91668946
>mfw reading this entire run

>>91668957
>Poor Fixer, forever stuck in an abusive relationship
What's worse, abusive relationship or stable time loop?

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>>91684901
Whoops, didn't attach it

>>91668720
Once again, Thunderball is the only useful member of the Wrecking Crew.

>>91668765
It's nice to see the Wrecking Crew not jobbing for once.

>>91668920
I was thinking Melissa shouldn't turn her back on him. Bucky was already on the ground.

>A building collapse killing Ghost, who's power is to be intangible.

They didn't actually check for bodies, did they.
>>91668946
Now that's good Leadership. Give a dangerous enemy an out, a chance to become a friend again.

>>91684184
4 us

>>91669703
Then what is Pymtron protecting?

>>91686925
Where?

>>91687356
Pymtron shows up in Secret Empire because he's protecting "the one thing that can stop Steve" or something like that.

>>91687427
What page? I just read it, didn't see it?

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>>91687598
It was in a solicit.

>There is a power that can either save the world or doom it! Both Steve Rogers and the heroes arrayed against him need this power! But unfortunately for all of them, the key to possessing this power lies in the hands of the unstoppable Ultron!

>>91673218
Militant feminist but mercenary work comes first.

Just finished reading the first 50 on the Thunderbolts. She joins for a while later. gotta order those.

should I be excited about Zub writing terrorist Emma Frost vs Hydra Captain America?

can it at least be a beautiful disaster?

>>91688012
You can take comfort in the fact that it will be all but completely, if not entirely irrelevant to the Marvel world at large and, if nothing else, absolutely forgettable.

>>91668905
More than Superia?

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>>91688395

>>Oh, okay, Nick Spencer killed Bucky. That makes sense. I bet he jizzed when he wrote that. I bet that’s the first thing that’s made him hard since coming up with his VERY IMPORTANT (in a literary and also political sense and also because it is didactic yet not condescending and will, even if he does say so himself, probably change the nature of humanity itself, our understanding of the world and the future of all mankind) NAZI STEVE STORYLINE, that one that we should buy every issue of, even if we hate it and think it’s awful and just plain bad, but we should also not buy every issue, because we should wait until the end of the arc before we judge it, but then surely we could just wait for the trade except we can’t do that because we should buy every issue that we hate because eventually we will stop hating them and we will look back and see how foolish we were for not buying every issue and not not hating them when they came out but hating the arc when we bought the trade when we should have bought the issues because money money just give me money and love me why does no one love me why why WHY???

>>Poor Nick Spencer. What a sad, bitter, wretched existence he must lead, forever doomed to being labelled a hack by an ungrateful and (dare he say it? yes he dare) uneducated audience who fail to recognise his wisdom and greatness and literary and political genius. Peasants. How dare they?

Bucky dying might be the best thing to come out of this event.

>>91684952
Jolt's touch

Erik thinking it might be the last of her. :(

>>91689866
>NAZI STEVE STORYLINE, that... even if he does say so himself, probably change the nature of humanity itself, our understanding of the world and the future of all mankind

So he secretly is alt-right like tumblr says?

He really is Richard Spencer in disguise.

>see people here talking about Bucky dying in the Cap issue
>get hype
>actually read it and it's clearly a fakeout also it was drawn by Malin for some reason

why even live

>>91690230
Because there are enough dumbass Bucky fans out there who aren't genre-savvy and we can enjoy their screams of rage

>>91690230
At least Kubik is dead.

>>91689866
>Bucky dying might be the best thing to come out of this event.

Brubaker unkilling him is at this point retroactively unforgivable.

>>91691123
Where can the character go from here?
For Thor's sake, he was the replacement Captain America!
What is he now? A Thunderbolt.
It's time to mercy-kill the guy.

>>91687847
Wait is tony stark back from the dead?

>>91691758
Carol only put him in a coma, he has A.I. Tony holograms showing up all over these days, in a way he's just as present as before the smackdown.

>>91690121
Evil Steve thinking and saying that he's always been a secret Hydra agent and claiming that it's the rest of the world that's been altered is just his way of rationalizing the fact that he knows Kobiks can change people's realities just like how he's been changed. He's just telling himself a fiction that he now wants to hear.

>>91688012
It's a Suicidal Living Diamond Crazy Woman vs. a Magically Brainwashed Fascist Supersoldier ... and his well-armed army of fascists.
Emma's going to plant her (X) flag in the ground and call hell down on her own head in order to earn redemption and death, and nobody will be able to put her down ... mostly because she has one hell of an unresolved storyline back in the X-Men books ...
Plot armor is a helluva thing.
I predict failure for both sides' efforts. But I really want to see what Emma can survive.

>>91668868
To be fair, that was during one of Zemo's good guy periods. Zemo's now evil with dreams of homolust for Steve and Steve's lies about how they can live openly as faggots if only Zemo can get ahold of the cosmic cube and make Steve's lies come true.

>>91670838
Erik joining would have made more sense if Zemo was holding Jolt hostage. Or if t was a case where Atlas was still near death and Jolt made her own "deal with the devil" where she delivered the final blow against Bucky instead of Moonstone, in order to get Zemo's attention in order to get him to save Erik in exchange for both joining Zemo's new army.

At least that way, we'd have a sub-plot with Jolt and Atlas trying to bring down the MoE from within

>>91690121
Actually the backlash to the first couple of issues of SamCap he wrote PLUS the thermonuclear backlash against Hydra Cap, along with Trump getting elected, caused Nick to chicken shit out of his asshole SJW shit in order to save his ass.

There is a running rumor that the entire Americop arc was rewritten and Civil War 2 and a couple of filler issues written, to make it less anti-police and less SJW pandering. Also, one of the filler issues had USAgent portrayed relatively well adjusted and another had college SJW types as villains trying to murder Anne Coulter, the later of which killed any SJW street cred Nick had garnered with the first 5-7 issues of SamCap.....

>>91693189
What the fuck are you going on about?
Of course the title's ongoing storyarc was rewritten around the big crossover event, that ALWAYS happens whenever there's a crossover event. Your casual is showing.
It has nothing to do with your SJW conspiracy theories.
The private police-force racist cops story was designed that way from the start to not portray ACTUAL racist police as being the problem, like it is IRL, because Marvel was making a point about ethics and not trying to get into your /pol/ bullshit. But I guess they should have just made them real cops seeing how you're still not letting up with your shit...
And U.S.Agent fans don't consider him filler material, fuck you for that, and given how that issue ended I'd say it was an important event in Captain America canon, not some minor chapter in your /pol/ conspiracy fantasies.
And Jesus Christ, what the fuck do you care about your headcanon SJW conspirators not giving the comic "street cred", other than because that's only happening in your head and that's the only place where it could matter?
Captain America's comic is about ethics and citizenship, it's teaching readers to actually think about what's right and what's wrong by showing both sides of every issue in conflict.
Maybe you could learn something from this book before you hold a book burning.

>>91690957
Kobik isn't dead at all, just shattered.

>>91693029
Erik joining Zemo would have made more sense if either of the characters was being written in-haracter.

>called Thunderbolts
>actually The Bucky and Kobik show
>both were mostly irrelevant to the plot except tying in to the larger Secret Empire thing and are now both off the table now
At least we had an explanation for Fixer being back and Jolt is usable again.

>>91692921
I wouldn't say that was during his good guy period, but during one of his less evil periods.

>>91693029
I'd read that. Hallie saw a lot of complex Helmut on Counter-Earth, she knows how he ticks and how to make deals.